 Okay, I'd like to call it to order a meeting of the City of Santa Rosa Cultural Heritage Board and ask for roll call, please Let the record reflect that all board members are present except for board member Deschazzo Next we'll move to the approval of minutes. We have three sets of minutes First is the April 3rd 2019 minutes board members any comments or corrections to those minutes? Okay, those will stand as printed Next we have the September 6th 2017 minutes Board members we were given some videos if I'm not mistaken of those proceedings to help us with our review of these Because they were obviously quite a while ago Board members any corrections or comments to the September 6th 2017 minutes? Yeah, there's several oh go ahead Okay The person that's referred to as Nick Chippin is Nick Tippon which is T-I-P-O-N And he was there representing himself as well as the Historical Society of Santa Rosa I think one thing that's kind of missing with this kind of Outline type of minutes is the topic of this discussion was the National Register nomination of the Korea Adobe and there was some discussion of whether The board should support it through a letter to the ship. Oh, I don't think any of that's reflected there So I just like to put on record that that was what the conversation was that particular meeting. Thank you that's true and Then the only thing I would add to that is that Nick Tippon was also there as the tribal representative from Great Rancheria because of the burials on the site and Do we have Minutes here that are ready for signatures or these going to be prepared for signature Next time they're gonna stand as printed but in terms of making these modifications What's the best procedure for staff? I'll bring him to the next meeting ready for signature. Okay, great Okay with those changes those old stand is printed and then we move to August 3rd 2016 Board members any comments or questions? the Reference to the north elevation as the street elevation is incorrect the west elevation Under resolution 321 is the street elevation Could ask for just a little more To repeat that just Resolution 321 names the north elevation as the street elevation. That's incorrect the west elevation is the street elevation Okay, if that correction is clear to staff I'll ask the board members for any other comments questions Okay with that Correction those minutes will stand and we're going to move to board business The cultural yes for a member to back her. Thank you I did have one general comment on them and if possible at least moving forward with it to that I know those there's I read the guidance in the city ordinances about the summary notes and I concur that it shouldn't talk about who said what And what the discussion was but I think that each item that's voted on or each concept review should include the summary of the conclusions that the board stated at the end That would be very useful for the next time it comes back before the board And I'm hoping that we see that moving forward as has been discussed a couple of meetings Okay, thank you Okay Board business the cultural heritage board shall consider the following matters standards guidelines and criteria to the extent applicable in Determining whether to grant or deny a permit Whether the proposed change is consistent or incompatible with the architectural period of the building Whether the proposed change is compatible with any adjacent or nearby landmark structures or preservation district structures Whether the colors textures materials Fenestration decorative features and details proposed are consistent with the period and or are compatible with adjacent structures Whether the proposed change destroys or adversely affects an important architectural feature or features The secretary of the interiors standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for rehabilitating historic buildings and such other matters criteria and standards as may be adopted by resolution of the cultural heritage board and And Now we're going to move to agenda item number four. This is public comment This is a time for any member of the public who is here wishing to Speak on a matter of interest to the board to approach one of the lecterns and speak If you want to well, this is our public hearing for tonight. So if you Haven't filled out a card feel free to approach the podium and you'll have three minutes to make remarks And I'm not seeing anyone rise, but I'm going to open the public hearing And I'm not seeing anyone rise. So I'm going to close the public hearing And we'll move on to item number five statements of abstention board members any abstentions Seeing none We will move to item number six point one concept review Landmark alteration for the Thomas concept landmark alteration review at 124 West 6th Street and We are ready for the staff presentation place. Great. Good afternoon. Thank you chair Edmondson Good afternoon members of the cultural heritage board the project before you today is the Thomas landmark alteration permit concept review for the project located at 124 West 6th Street in Santa Rosa and I Andrew I'm representing or presenting for Adam Ross Adam is the project planner to which this concept review has been assigned He wasn't able to be here today I'll certainly convey all all notes and comments to him and then he would be the project planner moving forward so the the the proposed Construction of a new two-story single-family dwelling with a detached garage that would include a second-story accessory Dwelling unit in the West End Preservation District would require a major landmark alteration permit to be approved prior to submitting for the building permit It's important to note. I think that this the existing Development was two-story single-family dwelling unit that was destroyed by a house fire The night of the Santa Rosa fires in October of 2017 It's and certainly you can ask the applicant for more information about that However, it does seem unclear if the two fires were related to each other So again the project location we can see here is located along the Santa Rosa Creek West of Highway 101 and It's within the West End Preservation District. It does the Rear property line does border the Memorial Creek Greenway It sits on a corner of West 6th Street and Pearson Street to the right. You see the the vacant Area and then to the east of that would be the 6th Street Playhouse It is the general plan designation is low-density residential and The zoning is R1 6 station area and it is within the historic and station area combining districts Here we can see it's located on the perimeter of the West End Preservation District And we've also provided a contributors analysis that reflects those properties along 6th Street Madison Street That are contributors to the establishment of the Preservation District And it is located within the downtown station area specific plan however, I believe it we can say that the Regulations contained in the downtown station area plan do not impact review of this project We can see here. There's some elevations of the previously existing Structures and the applicant does have a presentation that she would like to share with you that includes some better images as well and then elevations of the proposed Two-story structure and then the proposed site plan reflecting the two-story main house as well as the footprint of the carriage house located to the rear of the lot and then elevations for the project and Then floor plans as well and garage elevations here. We can see the ground floor Two-car garage and then the upper level proposed accessory dwelling unit I think as we're familiar with by now with regard to accessory dwelling units You can review the the lower portion But the the upper level ad you cannot be subject to the discretionary permit review And then of course, I'll be available for any questions today And then Adam would be available via phone and email for any questions you might have in the future As I stated previously the applicant does have a presentation. She would like to share with you As well as there are some Citizens here today who would like to comment on the the concept review at some point. Thank you Great. Thanks very much Board members any questions for staff before we ask the applicant to make her presentation Remember Murphy just a question. We've talked about this before but maybe another clarification with the ad you and it's in a Two-story fashion if there's a design component that spans both Portions is that open for discussion or that's a great question. I Don't know that I Know that we've we have looked at some second story ad used before and and I think we've commented in concept review on design, but I'm not sure then how Moving forward when we have a project application. We separate that out Board member to backer you have a comment. Yeah, thank you Following state guidelines on ad use We have the ability to comment on the ad you but nothing would be binding on the ad you portion itself However, the garage level below it is open to our comment On the concept is my understanding how that's being applied at the moment at state level Staff agree that that's a good description of the the review authority that we have Yes, board member debockers correct, and that's how we've applied Your discretion in the past in the more recent past on ad use over garages Vice-chair Yeah, I have a question and I'm not sure if this is the appropriate moment So let me just ask it and then we can table it if we need to When I visited the site today, and I did make a site visit I didn't get out of the car because of the inclement weather, but I did drive by and I noticed it's actually on your diagram as well There's significant slope Towards the back of a lot the elevation drawings of the structures Posit of flat surface so my question is is there Phil planned for the back of the site? the back of a lot Closest to the Greenway Are we gonna level this lot? I think that's a great question for the applicant to respond to sure We can wait until after your presentation because it may get answered there. Okay. Thanks Board members any other questions before we ask the applicant for her presentation? Okay Please go ahead and Tell us everything that you'd like Okay, well, I'm Charlotte Thomas. This is my husband Jack Thomas and we bought this place back in 97. We lived there 20 years and You know this this whole thing is has been very traumatic that you can see from the The analysis of the house we discovered that it started in 1890 and went through a whole bunch of add-ons over the years and It's actually got a both a or had both a garage an oversized garage single-car garage and a carport So we're proposing a two-car garage to replace those You can see most of the site. It's been covered from the existing structure, which is now it's just an empty lot and Yeah, you know and you can see What happened there the night of the fire and there's there wasn't any building there worth saving How do I go through this again Yeah, and there is a significant drop off towards the back of the lot However, that what we're going to do a slight retaining wall probably no more than than two and a half feet there in the back and great out the pad for the garage so that it's The front part is more or less level, but there will be a drop-off in the back and that's going to be the the flow of the the site drainage Will will go towards the back and and down to that corner and we may install a drain there to to drain on to the adjacent property for the to access the creek I believe there's there's some sort because that that whole property drains to the creek that there's some sort of drainage that goes under the the pathway there because they built up the whole pathway for the Prince Memorial Greenway and You can see that the new house and garage and permeable driveway will cover much less of the property than what was existing and Here's the site context This is the corner of of sixth and Pearson and you can see that most of the houses are to the West or small and we have some new houses and some very old houses all kind of intermix there on that West block and the south block across the street we have again a mix of This house on the left is the is an original house probably from the 1890s and our house originally looked very very much like that and then we have a duplex infill and then a renovated structure that has apartments just down from there this is the house that is across directly across the street and Did the outline there so you can see our house used to be the same size before it started being added on to? And this is the picture of what's existing there now. It's an empty lot and again an empty lot this is a Example of where I got the ideas for the new house. This is over on West 8th Street, and we have a two-story building and a Single-story building that has the bayfront. That's a very typical design element for Dating back to this time And here we have an example in the neighborhood also on West 8th of a gambrel roof So there is a context for the gambrel roof design although this is a house Rather than a second unit I was looking at modular homes because of the economics and the fact that they're green-built and Started finding very similar designs These are renderings And here is a rendered and the as built so you can see it Stays very much in context Yeah, let's get that because you've seen this the company we're going with is cutting-edge homes and It's our plan is based on a design on this floor plan And you can see in the as built again It doesn't look like what most people think of as a modular home These are the materials the lap siding and trim. It's a party board, which is fire resistant, it's a cementitious board with a wood grain and I know it's been approved for the project that was reviewed last month and here's an example the windows are vinyl and Christina assured me that new construction doesn't have to require the wood windows That you can these are just examples and you can see that they look Again, very very much in context. They're not they're not standing out as you know being a synthetic product and the back unit will be a panel package from North Coast package homes They're up in Mendocino and this is based on their Austin barn design and that's it questions Okay, great. Thank you We do have a couple members of the public here who wish to speak But if there are any questions for the applicant before we ask those members of the public to do so vice chair Just one question. What was the two-story portion of the original lot that burned? You can you can see it's there was a a second story Here in the side view That's actually a that's Two-story, it's a big bedroom and L-shaped bedroom and a walking closet up there and it had a sloped roof So there was it was actually two stories windows. No the windows are on the south the windows are on the south side Okay, thank you Vice chair. Do you still want the floor? That's true. Yeah, I just wanted to clarify since I asked that question earlier and you answered it for me the Reason I was asking about possibly leveling the site But I think you're going to avoid it with the retaining wall is that that close to the creek with a slope like that is Where you could encounter? archaeological materials if you were going to be disturbing Anything there so the fact that there's no plan to disturb that is good if you do put in drainage You might want to let the city know So that there could at least be some monitoring at that sure that would be fine I think you're right that it the area is probably already been disturbed because of the way they built the greenway But you never know how things can go with that kind of stuff But I think your retaining wall should be enough to protect the area. Thank you Board Member debaker First question is who was the designer on the project? I don't see That's what I thought Congratulations. This is actually one of the better packages. We've come through it provides a lot of information. Thank you very much We lived in the neighborhood for 20 years My husband grew up in Victorians and if we had the money in his druthers You would have seen a full-blown Victorian with the tower and all the gim-cracky As far as other questions I have did you consider any sightings other than the ship lab? That's what is the construction Standards for the company that we're going with the the house will built be built in four modules in a factory while that the Foundation is being done. They get the permit approval actually through the state and But they have to meet all the Santa Rosa requirements as well as all the state code requirements Okay, and I've got a little video and to show how the process works if anybody's interested in seeing that Thank you. Um, I think that's oh Lighting has any thought been given to what lighting you're going to use on outside of the Lighting on the outside of the house lighting We haven't Worked on that yet, but it will be again. It will be in context We'll probably have some security lighting On the east side where the driveway is as you you entered the property probably about the middle of the building And then we'll definitely have some in the in the rear But those are not the the street face and we'll have a either porch lighting in the Ceiling of the porch in the front or you know a decorative fixture keeping in period I Think that's all my questions for this time The board member McHugh Since I'm gonna have to leave a little early. I just wanted to to make my comments I really like the design like the work that you've done and it and the video you presented kind of gives me a sense of What though the Historical aspect of what you did and so I really appreciate that I'm sure my colleagues can probably talk a little bit more about lighting and Siding and that's because they're more experienced than I am and I'm learning But I just wanted to thank you for the presentation. I think it's going to be a Good-looking project Thank you If there aren't any more comments at this time I'll ask the members of the public who are here wishing to speak if they would like to do so to approach one of the lecterns at the top of the room and state your name for the record and Please share what you have to share Hi, my name is share Ennis West End Neighborhood Association First I want to say to the applicants. I'm very sorry for the loss of life that occurred that night in in the house That was a terrible tragedy and I never got the opportunity to tell you directly. So I'm sorry about that I personally feel that the Design doesn't really represent the West End district, but my bigger concern really has to do with public safety So if you approach from Pearson Street to West 6th that is a dead end there into West 6th and The landscaping that was at the front of the previous house and the trees that are still there have Traditionally always been very overgrown and when you get to that intersection you literally cannot see Looking off to the East toward downtown to the right. It's very dangerous. I've actually seen a fender bender there I almost got hit myself and I've seen a couple of other near misses So I'm hoping that in the design process something can be worked out so that it is not a safety Issue when you get to that intersection and you need to see to the east Thank you One of the things we did that that is a big concern we have had a lot of people run that stop sign at the corner of Pearson and a lot of people speed and cut that corner really really sharp We've had cars end up in our neighbor's yards both at the T inner end of the t-intersection and also ones that tried to make the corner turning from 6th on to Pearson and Not quite making it and the fences have been knocked down several times in the 20 years that we've been there Plus we've almost almost been hit a couple of times by bicyclists because they run that stop sign and come around the corner and one of the things they did was that you set the house an Additional five feet further back from Pearson Street so that you have a greater angle of view and the house is not Obscuring as much of the view plus there will not be the board high board fence that existed Originally, so you have more openness to be able to see to the right Just can I can remember would you like the floor what would you like the floor? Yes, sir Okay, board member Murphy. I assume the site visibility triangle would be applied at that intersection and that should assuage the Number of the public. Thank you If I might chair, I also wanted to please Sure for the the cultural heritage board looking at the site plan. Certainly the vision triangle Will have to be reviewed and would be required. They're going to have front and corner side yard setbacks of 15 feet and so in her application based upon the site plan she would be requesting a reduction in those Required setbacks that the cultural heritage board would have to approve upon review and make findings to approve It also the six-foot fence within that corner side yard setback Fences are allowed in within the setbacks. However, the maximum height would be three feet in a corner side yard setback We're currently unclear on if the cultural heritage board could approve a fence six feet high within the within the setback Or if she would have to if the applicant would have to also seek a minor conditional use permit approval Because there are additional findings that have to be made to approve the fence exceeding 36 inches in these the Setback, so I think we've got a couple of additional Items to explore in terms of what would be required for review of the of an application Okay So yeah, I'll just interject. There was a comment about the whether it's consistent with the character of the neighborhood and we went through the examples that you drew from it was 8th Street and the Examples that you drew upon was that Characteristic of your process when you were thinking this through there's a fondness for Victorians And that kind of design and also canvassing the neighborhood looking for inspiration. Is that how it went for you? Yes There was You know a desire to honor both the the original, you know 1890s context of the structure that was burned and Also, because you know we like Victorians and we wanted to do something That would be an enhancement for that corner because that quite honestly that the existing building because it just had been You know added on to so much was was pretty ugly and I wanted to You know try and make make things look a little better now the six-foot fence stops at the rear of the house And so that Entire side yard Will be open and we'll keep the the growth low and if we put a fence there It won't be anything more than the three-foot high picket fence We haven't decided if we want just you know simply a low barrier landscaping or a picket fence To protect that side of the house Okay Board members any questions for staff of the applicant before I bring it back for comments from the board Okay, I'm gonna bring it back to the board for comments and Let's start with vice chair well, I'm gonna Not be very specific because there are other board members that can do a better job with this one This is actually a comment for staff in some ways I'm struck by the fact that we've got this proposal in front of us It's a modular home. That's being rebuilt after the 2017 fires in a historic district 50 years from now this building will be historically significant because it is a 2017 firehouse and The fact that it is a modular home, which many of the homes that are now being rebuilt are Is going to make it a category of Significance, I think it would behoove the city to start keeping track of these things Because they're going to be the historically significant structures of the next generation We're gonna want to know where our firehouses are and what they look like and I commend the applicants again for their process and I'm very sorry for the fact that you had to go through this process But that's just something to put a little post-it note up there about The fact that it's modular the fact that it's green the fact that it's fire resistant These are all elements that are going to be the defining features of these houses all over the city Okay, just thinking thanks excellent point Thank you board member Murphy, I don't have any comments at this point. Thank you board member McEw Now I don't have any other comments To what I've made Board member Fennel Board member debaker Thank you, sir I have some Questions and concerns and just some concepts that I want to put out about it So we'll start by reading the character defining elements of the West End district I'm trying to get a little bit better handle on Miss Annesis comment because I think she does have a point with that In that the character defining elements the first sentence is The West End preservation district is significant as a predominantly single family Residential neighborhood made up of modest typically 700 to 1200 square foot single family vernacular homes on narrow but deep lots That's basically the first sense So this basically it's saying that the typical nature of the community there is a smaller scale house That said The particular street you're on and the subsequent paragraph to talk about a mix of other Sizes in there So it gives us a little bit of leeway on that Generally we're speaking and looking at new construction in historic districts To be to represent something that is more compatible than what was there before I Think in many ways this one is but it does have some height issues Compared to most of its neighbors That's one of the things a little bit of concern another one is Potentially the the organizational windows on the facades we have that up on the elevation right now typically the historic homes in any community in this community and also Though particularly you're representing a Victorian style The windows would tend to be aligned with one another and of similar size and not Several different sizes on one facade more than like two. We have quite a hodge podge of different window sizes shapes And alignments particularly on the front elevation So I would like to have some discussion about that from among board members or whether that is Significant concern or just merely a concern on this one Though there's no requirement for Doing wood window replacement or anything like this on a house that no longer exists There are appearance things that go along with it and this is concept review so one of the things I think maybe something we might want to discuss is the heaviness that we all associate with vinyl and it's short-lived nature Versus what we've been typically looking for is a fiberglass or a wood with thinner Sight lines and more glazing ratio Would be something that we might want to discuss about that here a little bit as well And we'll bring back when we concluding a little bit The siding is something else that's The ship lap is not particularly characteristic It's more often there was like something called in the hearty series if that's available That might be something that we might want to consider on this one Not required just something to think about Any thoughts have you gone before the building department at all about handrails or railings on that front porch I'm hoping to have the front porch less than 30 inches high If we do have to go higher than that then of course a handle handrail will be required And no handrails at all on the steps either is that what I'm seeing No, there's no guardrails on the porch, but no handrails on the quite quite possibly We we may probably add them because we're both getting a little older and like the stability exactly If you do what I do Suggest you consider that that is something we would like to see is what design you come up with those handrails Again, it would be those could be wood construction and in keeping with the other Era style details We're you have some freedom. You're doing a reconstruction, but we just want to make sure it's going to be it doesn't have to mock historic style, but it needs to be in A historic context. Well, what was on the building that we lost was actually aluminum lap siding that was put on some time. I think in the the 60s or 70s, so this pretty much Mimics the appearance of what was there only better Yes, and I don't know if the modular company can special order I know the Hardy plank exists in the Different forms. That's what we are getting the fish scale shingles for the front from them I will have to discuss with the modular company what their their order abilities are because they they buy in bulk and it You know would be a cost consideration in one of the things as we found out We were we were under insured and you know, you know that yourself that the construction costs have gone through the roof Since the fire and we're trying to keep things Under $250 a square foot All right two last comments very quickly Let's see first of all, you've got some Victorian scroll work in detailing We wouldn't necessarily require that you could use some sort of modern interpretation up there that might reduce costs But there should be some sort of ornamentation I would think up there as you do and then the final one and perhaps one of the more significant is The greenhouse window on the west elevation. That's going to be a street side elevation I assume that's going to be at a in a kitchen perhaps Okay Any consideration of doing a small projected bay window at that location? Could you bring up the the window example? I did the drawings before I Contacted the company that provides the windows For the modular house and Didn't come Yeah, and this is this is what they have which is a just what you asked for a Bay window with the roof on it That's better than what I'm seeing on the Okay, thank you very much. Thank you chair. Thank you vice chair. Would you like to speak or Just send it around for another comment. All right I want to check in about the the windows situation on the front because I I hear Board member debacle on that so I've got that some questions for you about do you know what's possible and Let's say out loud that everybody's conscious of this cost issue here So on the front facade The other thing I'd like to point out is that at least What I can what I can see in the drawing on my screen I can actually see more detail than I can looking at the image up here There are there do seem to be Pain-like divisions in all of the windows. Is that correct including the large ones on the front of the bow Again, that's what we wanted with some division, but I understand from the cultural heritage Specifications if we do go with divided lights that they have to be exterior mounted Okay, so I'm just checking to see what I've got going on here And then the other thing I'm noticing is that the and bear with me because I can't figure out a way They have to show you what I'm pointing at at the screen on the second floor the window to the far Right side the exterior wall and our wall is a single window Mm-hmm. Is it the same size as the double windows down below at the first floor level? Yes So is there mark what would happen if they doubled the window on the second floor? It's actually what I've drawn on my sketch here That would be it'll be a you a significant improvement if that would be to mirror what's on the floor This double association could be recreated up here That would go a long way. I think towards standardizing this I'm I'm quite aware of the fact that these windows Right they match. There's one two three four the same size. Is that correct? Yes, but they're slightly larger than this one, correct Right, that's beat. That's because it's the bathroom and we we allowed space for a double vanity and a mirror in that room Which is why the the blank stretch of wall That was a iteration for the floor plan layout. We're trying we're trying to get 10 pounds into the five pound bag All right, I'm just putting out options here That would help alleviate some of the choppiness that that we're concerned about. Okay Has isn't any design it's a series of compromises unless you want to throw a great deal of money at it Here yeah Any chance that these windows could be sized the same as these so in other words We could do the lower floor windows. They're three by fours. We could do them as three by fives Mark what about that? I'm sorry. I missed the color. So see the three by fives over here On the sides if if all of the windows over here were this size What would that do? Numbers that it would mean we had two sizes of windows these big ones and these ones It would be normal for a larger window to be on the first floor and a smaller Version of the same width on the second floor, but again, they have some freedom on this. This is a new construction So as if these two were the same size as this one That would help yes, could they leave this one the same? That's the problem isn't it? Yeah, I think The issue is that on the exterior of the Victorian period you're trying to refer to that the exterior drove what happened on the interior and You're trying to be a modern approach, which is that the interior and the exterior share responsibility That's a tough tough place to be And so because of that it gets a fairly awkward extra elevation that is is somewhat problematic I'm noticing Yeah, okay, I'll just leave it that That's true Okay I'll just make a couple of comments Wanted to thank you for bringing the project in front of us and all the work that God knows you didn't want to do in the first place, but that's the situation you found yourself in so thank you for being so diligent and bringing this to us I am surrounded on this board by architects and historians and people who are subject matter experts and and I am surrounded in the entire chamber by people like that and It always makes me happy when I hear when I when I wait for all of the observations to be made and I hear a few that have actually occurred to me because it makes me feel like okay, I'm scrutinizing this the right way and My biggest concern was the West elevation and the the windows on that I'm thinking that the way this neighborhood might go down the road is the Roberts Avenue extension that's being Planned in the long term for under Highway 12 is going to make Pearson, I think a lot more of a highly traffic street for cross-town north-south traffic, especially for bicycles and We probably want a major Intersectional property that's for pedestrians and bicyclists primarily because people want to avoid Third Street and that unpleasantness Want that to be a more inviting and integrated Wall for the neighborhood A lot of it has to do with pedestrian safety and also just a welcoming Transition point. I think typically we would consider the 6th Street face more important from a neighborhood Compatibility perspective, but it might not actually be the case here with the way 6th Street is With the way it really operates so the the West elevation was a bit of a let down because of the lack of symmetry and the the sort of prevalence of Flat hard material And I think that was a very important Comment about the safety on that turn we're going to have once again a lot of Bicycles and pedestrians coming around and meeting up with cars and it's going to be a very important Point it already is but it's going to get more and more important as time goes on and I thought those were encouraging answers That that I got on that So my concern is less to do with the front and more to do with the West elevation And I echo a lot of the statements that board member debaker made Board members anything Further to add any comments? Remember debaker. Yeah, truly perhaps to just summary of the key points perhaps Do you want to go ahead and do that or do you want to? I'd like to just send it around for one more round and everybody can summarize their own comments That'll probably be more precise Board member fennel anything that you'd like to say Yeah, I also agree with Casey in saying that when you hear something Come out that is in your head. It does make you feel good because I come from a real estate perspective and What I see of that neighborhood when I drove through were very linear style homes the windows I mean and I know you're not supposed to have to match it, but it this in its current rendition doesn't seem to fit with The neighborhood, I mean they're just it's clean lines. It's like an Ikea style You know The windows and the different sizes on you know both the east and the west Elevations and you showed a picture early on in your presentation when you were showing photos of other homes that this Company had done that seemed far more representative Clean lines even even sized windows. I understand the love for the Victorian But it's not really necessarily a style that's found in that You know in that neighborhood and the offset windows like on the on the east elevation where you've got the two double-hung windows Next to two other windows that are all all every single window on the east side with the exception of the two windows that are together are all of different sizes and It's kind of and as Casey had said two on the west elevation, you know the windows are different sizes and I think you do You would do yourself a more of a Favor to have everything looking more Even even the placement of the windows on the on the east elevation the double-hung windows are really close to the one window on the right and They're not spaced and I agree on the front elevation that having another window or You know something there It just it just doesn't it just doesn't work and I also you know have feelings about the in the back carriage house style Look from the side it kind of looks like a It looks like one of those shed things that you buy and I know that the size is not representative here because Driving down 101 you see him at 65 miles an hour, but it it has that look when you see it from the side and It just looks like it's too much of a cookie cutter replica of something that isn't and and like Vice chair said this is going to be something that's going to be a historic Property you know this is this is going to be representative of something that was done in a historic neighborhood and this is to me just a little over Overdone That I appreciate your presentation Yeah, I understand the problem about the windows and I did try to at least you know line them up It's a case of you know the form follows function and you know a compromise between the utility the rooms and you know the exterior representation and So the big double windows there are actually to light the stairwell because I was trying to get as much The ones that are offset those are the stairwell landing to light the whole stairwell in the interior of the house if you look at the floor plans you can see how that reflects and I wanted to get as much natural light in as possible to the house one of the things about the the old house is that the west side had Only Three windows on that side when we got the house and it was just a big blank wall if you look at the corner elevation of the Original you can see that and one of those was a aluminum framed window Well, actually two of them were aluminum framed windows and we and we place the the one in the the master bedroom with a I actually adore to get into the little side yard because the aluminum frame window didn't provide legal access or egress and again these You can see from the floor plan those Windows reflect what's going on in the interior the the one high window is at the bathroom and The other one I put in the closet and as a decoration just to kind of balance out that side of the house That that one actually is an optional, but I just kind of wanted to put something fancy there and We will have we will have some street trees on that west side I want to plant some deciduous trees to because it's that side of the house gets very very hot in the afternoon So it won't be as evident as it is with just the plain elevation And there will be trees and they but they will be set back from the corner because again I'm very concerned at the view at that corner because having lived there I I know about the cars and the accidents and That does concern me Okay, board member fennel anything dad no You do have it. Do you have anything done? No, okay? Board member debaucher, please Thank You chair I'm going to boil mine down just to a few so it doesn't get terribly cumbersome here The first one is the our first objective is we look at the overall massing of the structure in relation to the rest of the The district and whether the new project is moving in the right direction to match the rest of the district And let's start off by saying yes, it does it's you were covering a lot of a lot before But it was lower and this one's taller and that's probably the single biggest issue is that It's a little bit overpowering in its widths in particular We can still approve something like that But it does push the limits a bit on the massing for it does have the forms down Well, we could approve an entirely modern design If the size and the roof lines and the window alignments were appropriate But I think you're trying very hard to to make it fit. Okay, so now now the points that come off of that I Do think putting that second window in that bathroom at the expense of a slightly smaller mirror Would be a pretty important thing to make that balance Number two the mullion issue It's not a deal breaker, but we would definitely prefer to see some exterior mullions on the outside of the glass to break up those large pains Number three the bay window this one's something we're very much want to see Replacing that greenhouse window. I think you're definitely on the right track with that number four Consider drop siding instead of the other check to see if it's available if it's not that's the way it goes But please at least look into it rather than the lap siding number five When it comes back to us again You've got a lot of the things we normally don't see it concept covered here, but please include any handrails and Lighting including maybe a product cut of what your porch lights going to be and other lighting It's on the street sides of the building so we get an idea what we're approving and And finally one smaller comment again. It's not a deal breaker, but it's on the ad you again We don't have jurisdiction there. You can do what you want But if you pulled back those dormers back from the edge just a foot and got a little bit of roof showing Down at the bottom of those that would really help the proportions of that to look like a carriage house You'd lose only a fairly small amount of square footage and I think it would read a lot better Again, that one's gonna be your call. We have no jurisdiction there, but please consider that that's it again excellent points and Yeah, that's that's a good idea to pull those back and since that that front actually Extends out and it's it's pretty much empty space It shouldn't be too much of a problem to pull the dormers back and and show a little bit of roof And definitely I'd like to put the the porch railings on it would just look better Thank you first chair All right, so I'm gonna defer to my colleagues who've already spoken I think they've done a good job and Mark's always good at getting us a list I'm just gonna remind my colleagues of something. I Could show you any set of Victorian two-story buildings in the McDonald district That when you looked at the side of them The windows are all over Helen gone Victorians were worried about the front not the side Now we may now be worried about the side because of traffic and all the things that the chair Stipulated so I'm not I'm not sliding that at all But the sides of your building look like the sides of Victorian buildings because the sides weren't what people looked at that said Anything you can do to make some of these windows more the same size I think that would go a long way Towards helping resolve some of this strange patchy feel to it which is weirdly more authentic, but less aesthetic Okay, does that make sense? Everything else I agree with what's been said so far And again, we don't have much say over the ADU so We need ADUs I also wanted to point out that this is a Lot and a half and most of the lots are just 40 feet across the frontage And you mentioned that the scale of the houses that we actually have a 60-foot frontage on the West 6th Street side So we have an unusually large lot for for the neighborhood because most of them are Just 40 feet wide and the house itself is only 26 feet wide. So it's actually Even though it's taller and and the fact that it's it's so narrow, you know makes it look taller Is is one of the factors Whereas as we had a much more spread out house it wouldn't seem as tall Okay, great. Thank you board member Murphy Thank you for your presentation. It was very easy to understand what you are putting forth Just generally I don't think the house is particularly compatible in terms of its mass scale and stylistic design with the adjacent Houses which all seem to be a one-story cottage, but I also feel that You're in a position and a location where you have a lot more space to work with and in that regard My libertarian side is coming out That you should be able to construct what you want because I think it's always going to read as a Modern Victorian modular so I would if you can take into account what my fellow board members have talked about in terms of the windows and some of the architectural treatments and also perhaps Producing kind of the visual impact of the gamble roof over the ADU. I think that would do a lot I don't think you can really build a house there that could replace the house that burned because it was a Cretionary, you know house of many phases and very vernacular and it just wouldn't be suitable for you so I encourage you to move forward, but if you can take into consideration some of our small design Suggestions it may improve it. Thank you Definitely can work on revising the windows a little bit And the the house that existed was a crazy quilts and it was it was pretty insane and had everything from Armored cable to knob and tube in the walls and They just added on apparently whenever they got the money or felt like it and Lastly your south elevation it will be a very pleasant read walking down The path so I congratulate you on that great that last comment was a great segue it's the home that was there before looks lovely and It's funny how character is defined in so many different ways that home had a ton of character It had a ton of history and now we find ourselves in a situation where We are talking about character as a as an element of a standardized Aggregation of a neighborhood. It's it's just a strange kind of analysis that we that we have to go into I Think the vice-chair's point is well taken about the History and about whether or not this is going to meet or whether or not I'm gonna see materials that allow me to make the Findings that this is compatible with the neighborhood I Don't see my role as second-guessing design decisions Unless they Have such an effect that they hit one of the things in the code that I'm supposed to look for I Think that in terms of scrutiny of the design I would I would echo board member debaucher on Basically everything that he said of course with a special emphasis on the siding in the windows As it pertains to that west elevation when I think about neighborhood compatibility, I have to think about the Lived experience of the neighborhood. I I don't know what compatibility could possibly mean if it didn't Take into account the the sort of comings and goings of people and I think that a more welcoming wall There are more welcoming Visual presentation is gonna help promote the kind of neighborhood activity that we want to see Where people feel safe and secure and enthusiastic about where they are Are there any other? Observations comments Okay, thank you very much once again really excellent work and a lot here for us to Look at and get a full sense of what you're proposing. So thanks very much for your hard work Well, thank you for all the helpful comments Okay All right, we're going to move to our next agenda item That concludes item 6.1 item 7 is board member reports and Item 7.1.1 is a request for an agenda item for an upcoming board meeting regarding the board's ability to present an adaptive reuse award and This is born of Comments from board member debaker and board member Dishazo, and I'll just ask staff to briefly introduce this item and Let us know What our choices and options are I think it's the decision about whether or not to go forward with an award of this kind Well for an agenda item to discuss an award of this kind is that right? Yes, thank you So in order to place an item on a future agenda It's sort of a three-step process the first step is a member requests a future Agenda item and another member concurs that item is scheduled for consideration on the next or later agenda And then at that meeting at that future meeting the agenda item is discussed by the board and the board votes on whether to add That item as a future Agenda item study session or report item and if the board votes yes, then staff will set it for the set it on a future agenda And then the third step is item is agendized for discussion at a late later meeting and then the award or whatever the item is is presented So it's a sort of a three-tiered process to get something on the agenda Okay, so if we were to have Motion in a second for putting that on a future agenda We could have a discussion if need be and then take a vote and that would establish it on to a date uncertain Yes, at this point. It's uncertain Just because we don't have any items that we know of that are scheduled yet for the early June meeting so It's hard for us to predict one will get an item and have a future Meeting and staff might want the flexibility to set up that next meeting in any way that wants and to put this on an appropriate agenda wherever it makes the most sense probably the next one but Depending on staff time and other projects and competing interests, right? And we could we could hold a special meeting just to present the award or if that pleases the board or we can Wait till we have an an action item or a concept item at a future meeting Okay, so would the motion be to place this on an agenda for CHB meeting on a date uncertain. Yes, okay Would anybody like to so move? Yes, sir. I'd like to have an agenda item to discuss a potential words process Followed subsequently on following meetings by nominations The lift the show meeting would be to talk about what the process would be the inclusion of City Council and formats for the award type That's it. Do I have a second? Yes, I second Okay, does staff have enough information? Yes I thought because we have something on the floor now then there be open for discussion perhaps By our process That sounds fine to me. Go ahead, please. Okay. Thank you Question for Christine The process that you outlined where does that come from is that a city process that you've got? So I conferred with the city attorney's office and it comes from the city council manual of procedures and protocols and its section 2b. Okay. Yeah. Thank you very much because I was referring to the Brown Act itself and the Brown Act itself chapter 4 section 1 regular meetings item 549 5 4.2 specifically item 2a Indicates that any board member can direct staff to place any matter business on future agendas without Having the three meeting process To do that And that's what we've been following in the past So I just wanted to clarify whether there was a local requirement or whether it was Brown Act Perhaps if staff looks at that question we could have a discussion about that the Applicability of that code section to the situation that we're in right now If the city attorney's office has any comment or in the course of moving forward Is there any other Discussion from the board. Okay. The motion was made by Board member debacle seconded by the vice chair and board members your votes, please Do we have the lights? Yeah, we'll need to do a roll call. Okay roll roll call vote Board member Murphy So board member debacle Hi Board member fennel Hi Board member McHugh Murphy I'm sorry Board member purser I and chair Edmondson Oops the motion passes with five eyes Board member McHugh being absent at this time and board member Dishazo being absent and Are there any department reports? There is one item. I passed out a flyer at each of your desk about a Board's commissions and committee committees orientation that will be presented by the city clerk's office and city attorney's office while it's not a mandatory orientation. I Highly recommend that each of you attend What they will be going over is they're going to review the advisory body handbook the rules and responsibilities of a board member the Brown Act basic meeting procedures and an overview of the statement of economic interests and ethics training and It will be on May 29th 2019 at from three to five in this chamber So just wanted to bring that to your attention. You may have gotten a invite In your city email. Thank you Great. I'd like to just make a couple of comments about some things That it might be of interest to my fellow board members First of all, this thing sounds like it's very informative I learned new things every meeting and it's a nice crash course and it's a good way to get some Face time and networking with the people who are Going through a lot of the same decisions about a lot of the same projects that will be coming through and to develop some good working Relationships. This is not I'm not telling anybody anything. They don't know but I think this sounds valuable to me We are going to be given and it may even be in our emails by now But we are going to be given notice of the state law mandated sexual harassment training that all board and commission members need to attend this is going to be an in-person training and There are approximately seven Two I believe they're two hours sessions that are Scheduled that would be available to a board and commission members for the city The schedule does exist. I don't I may have one copy of it here But if I don't have it available, I would hope maybe staff would circulate it it might be going out to all the boards and commissions This is something that has to be done in person. It's not optional and failure to Satisfy that requirement could result in Ouster from the border commission, so it's it's completely mandatory and it's also an important thing to learn about and always to protect the city and protect all the people who we interact with so valuable thing that we need to obey and Earlier today was the lunch for the chairs of boards and commissions with Mayor Schwedhelm and the mayor in that meeting Asked for an update about our business, but also Was making the point and this is always I agree with the mayor that this is always an important consideration the point to all board and commission members and all boards and commissions that the council priorities are to be kept in mind when we are Making our decisions and that every board member obviously has the discretion to determine what that means and all of our Decisions are have to be consistent with state law on the code and that is That's the legal regime that we operate under but sort of on a side track to that is that It is always important to review the council priorities that are set by the council at their goal setting meetings and They do overlap quite a bit with what we discussed here Housing homelessness the downtown plan the general plan that's going to be coming through over the next several years but we're going to get further and further along on those processes and We had the Santa Rosa Avenue project that represented well the sort of collision point so to speak of a specific plan and of our review for cultural heritage board business So the mayor encourages us to Take another look at that and to sort of pay broader attention to every other board and commission and work toward the same goals Within our discretion, of course, so Any other comments or questions Actually, I have a few questions for staff if that's possible. Of course great. Thank you So Kristen I Speaking of plans and changes I had been planning to go to the presentation on That was going to be made to folks who live in historic districts But then the date got changed at the last minute and so I was unable to go and it occurred to me it might make a really Useful presentation to the board as a whole if we could get a version of that presentation that was made to the residents So that speaking of priorities were all on the same page and we're all working with the same Information so if that might be worked into an agenda at some future date for our meeting I think that would be really helpful So that that was question number one Question number two speaking of mandatory trainings. I finally got my ethics training then online And it's always a useful review One of the things that it makes you do is go back and look at the charge for the board and so my question is really in in By way of an update question We've been talking for as long as I've been on the board about the fact that we have Four charges and we get to do one of them and so I'm wondering if If staff knows and maybe this is a question to take back to the office. I'm not sure If there is any update on when the Cultural Heritage Board or any other entity Might get around to updating the inventories of the historic resources of the city Currently sitting at Inventory done in 1986 That is one of the charges of this board and we're not getting much done on that and Then my third question just the last one and this is more by way of I'm trying to sort Reality from some rumor and speculation Do there was conversation at the time of the fire so quite some time ago about the city looking into the possibility of petitioning Sacramento For some temporary waivers of environmental process and review in the context of fire recovery Including those relating to sequa, which would impact the functioning of this board I'm wondering if there's an update on that are any of those Formal petitions going forward has that is that something that is long since passed away. We're you know significantly past the moment of the fires obviously, but I'm starting to get some comment and I'd like to be able to be Accurate in my responses And the question is specifically regarding sequa processing The the legal frameworks that impact this board are the only ones I feel comfortable to talk about but yeah, right? Does that make sense? Yes, thanks Board members any other questions for staff or comments? Remember Murphy just Could you clarify? Are you directing staff to ask whether to come? Yeah, cuz There was mentioned in the paper the way it was brought up to me was there was mentioned in the paper back in right around the time of the fires that one of the options the city was looking at was to request and Santa Rosa was by no means the only city in California going this route Brown was still governor to request temporary waivers or set asides for certain environmental review processes in the context of fire recovery right So so I've had someone ask me. What's the status of that board members anything to add? and Okay, board member debaker, please sure. Thank you chair one more one more item I'm on the mailing list of several things and one of them is the Catholic Charities Burbank housing and I wanted to make the board aware that right now they are asking for public comment on the characters village project Which is in of course in the st. Rose historic district So I encourage you to familiarize yourself with the project and If you want to take the opportunity to comment you might want to do that Yeah, thank you Anything before we adjourn Okay, that concludes the meeting of the cultural heritage board and we stand adjourned until date uncertain for our next meeting