 All right, welcome to this progress and learning video. I have today Sunny Sabini. I'm excited to talk with her. Sunny, I'm just gonna go ahead and let you introduce yourself first. I really like what you're up to in your business and I want folks to hear about it. Great, thank you, George. So my name is Sunny Sabini and I'm here in the San Francisco Bay Area. I work with co-founders and business partners who are in progressive businesses and I help them work through conflicts, obstacles, increase the collaboration and synergy in their partnership and in the process, we usually end up expanding their individual, their interpersonal, their organizational capacity. Yeah, very, very cool. Yeah, and you have a new framework that I don't know if we have time to share it or whatever, but I certainly will give people links to your website and other places and anywhere that would be helpful. But I hope that this video and those of you listening on the podcast will get some encouragement about how authentic business can be done. I hope that you all will kind of walk away being able to kind of apply some of these insights into your business as well. So, Sunny, let's see, where do we start? First of all, I wanna let people know that you are a member of my MasterHeart business mentoring group. And so we get to connect all the time and continue to work on your business throughout the rest of the year. And I'm excited for that. One of the principles that you've found, you've been finding helpful and you've been working on embodying, which is a little different than what's out there in the mainstream, is what's typically out there with regards to content, with regards to sharing our message, sharing our ideas, is intellectual property. We have to protect, protect, protect. We have to make sure that we are the only one who has ever said this thing or whatever and I'll be the only one. But of course, now that we've been working together for a bit, you are experimenting with a different way, which is, but I'll let you share, yeah. Thank you. And it's interesting because yes, I received that message so much in the world and there are some coaches who really even focus on that, right, protecting and developing your own intellectual property. And I remember hearing that you have, I don't know, some are all of your ideas in the, what is it called, creative comments. And I really love that come from around that because I do think that there's so much that we can all offer to advance our own, certainly our own fields, but also our own development. There's so much we have to learn from each other. And so I think that exchange feels really natural and compatible with my work, which is around collaboration. So I think that there's so much that can happen through sharing ideas and building upon each other's ideas and exchanging in that way. So I love that you really advocate for that. I do and I've been switching, I kind of switched my mindset around this, I think somewhere around 2014, 2015, I used to believe that we should all, just like most people protect ideas. And then, yeah, somewhere around 2014 or so, wait a second, if I share it and not fear as much whether people take it and run with it, I find that I'm actually much more creative myself. And interestingly, with that kind of more and open hearts, I tend to draw people to me. It's interesting. People say, oh, don't you draw abusers of that policy? But no, actually, I draw people who tend to be more like collaborators and people who respect that people like you, right? So it's so interesting. And recently I've been starting to tweet my potential blog ideas out there. I used to use Twitter to try to put stuff out there, but now I use it to share, hey, this might be a blog idea in the future. And I just try to get it out there as much as possible and see which ones work. But what I'm excited how you're starting to put this together is you have a framework that you recently expanded, upgraded, and you're gonna be sharing much more widely. It's a bit of a tangent, but I think it is an example of sort of idea creation. Do you wanna say a bit more about your framework and why it's helping you to kind of organize things? Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because I do bring ideas from a few different fields. And this is part of what's developed into my framework. So the individual level, interpersonal level, the organizational level, and how they each feed into one another. So of course our individual capacities and obstacles. So for example, if we have in psychology, what we might call cognitive distortions, then that's gonna interfere with someone's ability to relate to another person. So there are ways in which each of these areas impact the other. And there are also stages of working through clarifying, defining, designing what we wanna do going forward, really committing. So there are stages that can be translated to each of those domains. And then I also think about the, as we're working on those, it's expanding the capacity on all of those levels of the system as a whole. So I kind of see it as like this funnel, where the funnel's getting larger, the more that we do that work. And then of course there are some individuals and partners that don't actively do that work. And then there's like this contraction that happens. And so that's why I think of it in three dimensions. It's like that. Do you happen to have a screenshot of it that you can share? But no, we'll come back. I'll let you, at some point, if you're gonna be sharing it on the blog post to your website or something. So people can see it then. I'm sorry to put you on the spot there, but I'm excited for it. And that's why I've seen the initial design. So I'm excited for the world to see it. So as you start getting the stuff out there, how do you feel about... Okay, so I actually wanna ask you about this. Like putting ideas out there can be scary, right? And for most people, it is scary, especially they aren't already pretty much like content creators. So how are you dealing with that? Especially something like a framework that is so close to you, that means so much to you, it integrates your experiences, your skills. How are you relating to that publishing of such a thing? Yeah, and I'll say I'm still in the process of that. So I'm almost done with writing the framework article that I'll then share on LinkedIn and other areas as well. And I feel excited to do it. Whereas in the past, I noticed that I did feel more reticence around sharing ideas, but there's some, I guess because this is so core, it feels like it integrates a lot of what I believe it'll want to see happen. So for example, people being more intentional about developing themselves in each of these areas, because I believe in it so strongly, it makes sense to share it, right? That's another way of serving people, which is something that I really appreciate about your approach as well. So when I think of it in that way, it seems really natural and important to do. And so the kind of the ego fears of, oh, what are people going to think about it? You know, that that receives. So I feel really excited about this approach. And what would you say to somebody who is afraid to kind of put their ideas out there for various reasons? But let's just say for now, it's the fear of criticism, fear, this is not gonna be good enough. The fear that, well, what if I change my mind and it's already out there? What, also another one is, what are my friends and family gonna think about this? What are your? Yeah. Well, I think that the first thing is that I do see it as an iterative process where we have one, and mine already has, my framework has already gone through some changes. You know, you had made a suggestion because originally I had nine stages. You recommended reducing it down. And so I got it into, you know, in a sense, four different steps within the areas. And, you know, so the more that I noticed that I put it out and get feedback, I certainly get the feedback about the things that do make sense in work and create more insights for others and ideas for them. And then any kind of constructive criticism that I get allows me to then think about how else I can adjust and refine it, which feels like it is within the larger context is within service, right? To be developing the ideas further. So I actually wanted to change over time. I'm excited about that. And I think it will become increasingly useful for people the more that I put it out and get feedback. But I started small, right? So I just showed it to one of, you know, one of the other members of MasterHeart. And that is one of the things that I love about this community is that there is so much generosity around sharing ideas and offering feedback when requested and things like that. And then I shared it within one of your classes and I got some more feedback. So, you know, starting small really helps to, I think for me to feel more comfortable about sharing it with a larger audience. But also, as I said, to refine it to get it to a place where I feel even better about it as I'm sharing it with a larger audience. So yeah, I think that, you know, that's really helpful. Yeah, those are good tips. And for those who are listening or watching who are not in MasterHeart or are not in one of my classes, you can simply contact one of your friends and colleagues and say, you know, could we have a kind of a temporary project where we can give each other feedback on what we're working on, you know, just exchange emails or whatever it is. And of course, it has to be someone you're comfortable with. So the other thing that, you know, talk, we've been talking about abundance in sharing ideas and in collaboration. One of the other key shifts is from the idea of competitors, you know, seeing others in our field as, well, if they have a client, that have one less client for me or whatever it may be to, you know, what I call niche mates, right? It's like, well, they deserve success too. I mean, they have a family too and they're doing good work too. And if they grow and we're friends, we'll probably grow together, you know. What has been your experience as you've been kind of bringing that idea of niche mate into your, and you already, I'm sure you were already quite collaborative before we met, but how are you, so you can share about your kind of collaboration insights, you know, even before we started working together, but yeah, I'd love to hear from you about that, niche mates and kind of net caring. Absolutely. Well, yes, I definitely did have that attitude of collaboration before starting. There were a number of people that I worked with on various projects or co-facilitator or co-consulted. And then in others where we, you know, did give each other feedback around our ideas and, you know, blog posts and things like that before sharing with a larger community. But I remember, I think that you were the first one that I heard. I don't know that I've heard anyone else use the term niche mates before. And there's something about the way in which you presented that makes it feel like it's the default, right? That we can come from that place of assuming that everyone else is a niche mate. And even though I had that attitude, I didn't believe that other people did. So there is a way in which I felt more open to reaching out to even strangers within the field. And in this case, you know, as my caseload grew, I had to find other people that I trusted to give overflow clients to. So I did have to reach out to some new folks who had, you know, certain areas of specialization that were similar to mine. And it felt a lot more comfortable doing it with that kind of idea in mind that everyone can be having that attitude of, you know, again, abundance and developing our ideas together and so I have felt more open in that way, like a lot more flow. It's amplified where I came from. Yes, yes. What would you say to somebody who, you know, recently I received a message, someone said, you know, I would love to think in more in terms of niche mates and more collaborative net caring type thing. But she was talking about an experience where she felt like somebody had taken more from a collaboration than they deserved or that, you know. And so there's always that concern people have to say, well, what if it's not perfectly equal, equal or, and it's, of course, interestingly, that's your field. You like help business partners deal with this kind of stuff. But yeah, any insights or reflections that you wanna share from your experience? Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because there is still a way in which I struggle with that piece to some degree, this idea that some people might wanna take ideas and exploit it in some way and not also come from the perspective of generosity and collaboratively developing the field. So that comes in a little bit, but I just, I try to see it within the larger context, which is that if someone else, like say someone is, you know, taking an idea and just using it for very selfish purposes, the ideas are still getting out there to a greater number of people. It's still like planting seeds that other people who are coming from a place of spirit and heart and generosity are gonna be able to benefit and to develop those further. So I think from that perspective, it's less of a concern. And I do believe, you know, even in my case, I'm working with business partnerships. So in some sense, it's maybe a smaller population and some that some other businesses might have. And yet there are way more clients that I could even imagine myself and everyone who does this work being able to serve. So, you know, this idea of scarcity doesn't make sense. I do like the idea of expanding the pie, meaning educating more people about these kinds of resources that are available. So more people use them, right? I don't think that there's an issue of too few clients or too few ideas. And I also really liked what you had said before that. You know, by the time someone sees one of your ideas, you're already past that. You're already developing something new, right? So in that way, I feel more at ease about just letting go of that when it comes out. I love that it's, yeah. I mean, and I think this ego-less, you know, perspective of valuing the ideas more than taking credit for it has, I'd say, I mean, I'd say, I mean, almost like a magical karmic return. Even in this life, I would say that it's hard to, well, measure or take credit for, you know, but it does, yeah, you and I have both kind of experienced that and yeah, there are people who are still growing. You know, people who are still young and who may be more needing to take credit or things like that and that's okay because, you know, like, yeah, like you discover ideas are abundant, you're gonna keep creating. So as you think about your business kind of going forward, I'm just kind of taking a little bit of a step back and you have, you have a, you know, great, well, maybe actually before I even go to the step back, you mentioned already that you have a, gratefully a full case lahoder client load at this time. Do you wanna say a few words about how that came to be or what can those who are listening, how can, yeah, how can we get there too? Right, like, yeah, any encouragement there? Yeah, I think the first piece was that I did an exercise where I really thought about this idea of niche. I was very resistant to the idea of niching when I first started and it took me a while and I don't remember all the steps that started to convince me but one is, you know, I am trained as a therapist as well as an organization development consultant. So in the therapy domain, in the therapy realm in particular, there are so many generalists and when I'm looking for a client to refer and someone says they have, you know, certain issue, they have problems sleeping. I do wanna refer to that person to someone who specializes in the issue that they have and others who are generalists, I don't think of them at that time. They might be fantastic therapists or fantastic coaches. So there's something about the niching that I realized on the other side of it is really helpful for me referring to others and then also being on my side of it of getting the clarity and I got the clarity through doing an exercise of thinking about every client I've ever worked with which has been, I don't know, it's in the hundreds, right? So some of them are organizational clients, foundations, school districts, you know, individual therapy clients, couple therapy classes, all the different kinds of work. And I thought, who have I most enjoyed working with? Where did I feel like I was able to bring my most skill? Who did I feel benefited the most? Who was I able to be the most creative with? So I did that exercise to narrow it down to the top. It was three to five clients, like individual clients. And from there, I was able to see that this is the work. It's the business partners. And I'll also mention that in the business partners, I have a subspecialty of working with business partners who also have a personal relationship of being siblings or close friends or spouses. And that's what I found when I did this exercise is that doing the business partnership, coaching that brings my therapy background and the organization background and the mediation. And I facilitate an interpersonal dynamics class for MBA. So I thought about all the different pieces and I can be so creative. So there's something about the niche itself, like identifying the niche. And I also thought, who would I wanna be able to, who would I be so interested in working with that I could develop 10 years worth of material for them and never get bored? So, you know, game. I love this. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's fantastic. It's actually similar to kind of what I've been trying to teach people for years. It's like, I feel like a lot of people niche too early. And I mean, your story is a fantastic example because you already did a lot of work. You already worked with hundreds of clients before you've niched. And that made it so much more effective because it's grounded in your actual experience, analysis of history, rather than a projection into an unknown future. And so it's like for people who are just starting out, I always recommend, all right, because you don't have the history of experience working with hundreds of people like Sonny has, you can essentially create content, create hopefully a couple of hundred pieces of content, but even a couple of dozen pieces and then niche from there to say, well, which of my content has been getting the most traction? You know, anyway, but I'm excited. Thank you for sharing that example because I'll be able to share your example going forward. We only have a few minutes left, unfortunately. So I'd love for you to share. Oh, I mean, I think you've already mentioned who's your ideal client and kind of what kind of stuff you do with them. But give us a bit of a sense of your vision of your business. What would you like as your business continues to impact more people? What does the business look like? Or maybe, you know what, let's end on this. What would the world be like as what the kind of stuff you do becomes more prevalent? What would the world be like? You know, so much of it, so much of my focus is on how we evolve individually and collectively and certainly within the work domain where we spend most of our time and need to be able to bring as much of ourselves forward and need to develop ourselves as much as possible in order to make as much of that difference as we can. So that's what I would love to see is for, you know, for everyone to be, you know, working through all of the obstacles that keep them from bringing their fullness and from working with others to further their own mission because we really need, it's such an interdependent world and, you know, even with as we're talking about idea this, you know, but certainly so many other ways in which we collaborate and can use resources, share resources and so that's what I would love to see is for more people to be able to follow their true mission in that way and create the businesses and the relationships, the collaborations that are going to be bettering everyone. That's fantastic. Sonny Sabini, thank you so much for taking part in this interview. And I hope those who are watching or listening will check out the notes where they can find links to your website and any other links that you feel will be relevant for them. So thanks, Sonny. Fantastic, thank you.