 Destroying poverty. Destroying. I'm telling you, destroying poverty and actually creating general wealth for the next generation. There's no need for us to live in this poverty thing anymore. Man, it's bad. It's bad. Poverty sucks. I don't want to talk about it because I'm coming from there. Yeah, let's not. Good evening and welcome back to The First Time Homebuyer Show. I'm your host, Estie Klaassen. As you know, every Wednesday night we chat to amazing property investors, property moguls, first time home buyers who share their story and journey with us. And tonight is no different. But before we get into that, as you know, Zaman Tungwakumalo is on your screens every Monday to Friday at 8 p.m. And of course, if you're interested in farming and agriculture, we've got Mbali ready for you. That's every Tuesday and Thursday at 8 p.m. And of course, last but not least, Chad Viveros is traveling Johannesburg looking at amazing mansions, townhouses, apartments in Santon, whatever you name it. If you're ready to invest in amazing property, do watch his show every Monday and Friday at 8 p.m. And without further ado, I am chatting to Peter Mutlala this evening, an optometrist. And tonight we see things through his eyes. Good evening, Peter, how are you? And let me actually, before we even go there, tonight we get to see things through his eyes as he is an optometrist. See what I did there, Peter? Yes. How are you, Peter? I'm fine, thanks. And how are you doing this? I can't complain, I prepped. I literally ran that line, that joke in my head five times. So thank God you found it funny. Peter, thank you so much for joining us. You're an optometrist by profession, property investor. And just before we get into that, tell us a little bit about what Peter does. Thank you so much, STN. I want to appreciate you for inviting me into your show. Thank you for coming. I really appreciate that. Of course, I'm an optimist. That's my undergraduate degree. And I'm running three practices currently. One in Brocksberg, one in Oslo, one in Kallehom. And I'm also a real estate agent, actually, working for another company in Gemiston. And I'm also doing property investing as a property investor and running sessions and seminars for those who are interested in investing in property. That's what I'm basically currently doing. And that's a lot, right? You're not about to stop anytime soon. You're juggling all these things. It's too early for me to actually stop. The good part is that I do work with teams. I do have two optimists working with me. I do have administrators for administrators working with us. We sometimes bring low incomes to actually cover in, especially when I'm really busy. So we're fine with that. Unfortunately, when it comes to estate agent duties, I have to be present all the time and I have to be able to be the one showing not lines, this and that. When it comes to property investing, it's also a case of teams. I mean, I do have real estate agents that are also working with me and agencies that are managing my properties and so on. So it's manageable and I'm very excited that having teams around them provide that good trust that one needs as they continue to invest. Exactly. And it's very important to have a power team. We always talk about that on the show. People who are trustworthy, people you can trust. And this is not only within the real estate field. For you, this counts in your practice as well. Your team needs to be efficient. And they need to be on the board because I'm not always there, but I'm there. So if I'm not there, let's say for a few days, there shouldn't be anything that is stopping because I'm not present. So that becomes very critical for us to be able to be functional, for us to be able to push and provide services that we are promising outlines to be. You said you're an agent as well. Let's talk about how you got into property. Yeah. In 2010, I was in Cape Town, already based in Cape Town. That's when I started buying my first property sexually in the same year. But my journey did not start in 2010. It started in 2008. I had some little money that I've put aside and I just resigned from the University of Limpopo from working as a lecturer. And I thought, where can I actually invest my money into? From 2008, 2009, 2010, I said, let me just actually experiment on what the books are talking about. So I'm buying two properties. And the idea was to check whether it's really true that property investing makes money and how often can you make money? Whether the question of appreciation really does make sense. Cash flow that comes from rentals that you're collecting on a monthly basis does make sense and so on. And four or five years later, I realized this is it. Property investing is my way to go. Because I've now, you know, checked and I've come to a point where I've been convinced by results that property investing is actually the way to go. And that's when I then moved into Johannesburg in 2015 and I started buying more properties on going. Just to get it done going. Of course. So the million dollar question, can we make money from investing in property? Any day. Any day. Of course I do understand that there are some that fail to make money because making money is a skill and skills can be learned. But if you really don't know, you may think people are not making money based on your own experience. So just as people make money in other asset classes, others are losing money. The same story with properties. Just as others are making money in properties, some are actually losing money. So I guess I'm in the fortunate part because I'm in those that are making money. And I'm very grateful for that. And it is as we do that we become better and improve. And that's why currently I'm in that mode where I'm sharing my experiences based on the things that I've done for the past 11 years, so that people can also invest successfully in properties. Exactly. And I want to double-tap on this because I think it's such a good topic and I don't think we've spoken about it enough. This is nothing we've kind of planned for. It's not in the questions, but you talk about and you're a mentor. You're doing these seminars, you're talking and having new people in your seminars on a monthly basis. Have you experienced someone who invested in property the wrong way? And what were those mistakes so that we don't make them? There are a few, but what I've learned in the experiences is that they are thinking wise as long as you buy property, then you are fine, you are good to go. They do not understand that we also look at numbers. We also look at, does it make sense that I need to buy property A and not B? Is the asking price making sense? What is the municipality saying in terms of valuation of this property? What's the light stone saying in terms of the general market valuation of the properties that are for a similar size or similar structure like the one I'm buying? So I learned it's a question of them not necessarily understanding or knowing that investing in property, it's something that needs to be learned and you need to get to a point where you know how the money is made. So those are some of the people I've seen that I've not necessarily made. I think it's also lack of research. I mean, sometimes you don't know where to start because as a first time buyer, I sometimes give people an example and say, when I bought my first two properties in 2010, I looked around before I could, to see who I can necessarily follow or who can advise me, who can just validate my decision to say you're doing the right thing, keep going and so on. And I didn't find anyone, unfortunately. So there are some of the people that would want to invest in property but there is no one around to support them. They don't even know whether there's a need for them to research or something or they just look at the board that is advertising a property and they quickly want to make an offer on that property. And I mean, you do know that if you want to see a board that is saying a property is sold and you go and want to know who's advertising it, they want you to buy it. They don't care whether you buy it at the right price. They don't care whether the market is doing well. They also wanted to get rid of it. They just want to get rid of it so that they move forward. So those are some of the things that I'm basically learning as I have teams around that I'm working with and mentoring. Yeah, you talk about constantly learning, which is important because I feel like you learn something new every day. And just because you've invested in numerous properties and that doesn't mean that there is not more knowledge and more things to learn. What are you as Peter still learning today? I mean, it's 10 years later in your property journey. What are you still learning? You know, one of the things I've learned is you actually can negotiate for everything. Starting from the prize, starting from the offer the bank is giving you, starting from the contractors, you can negotiate anything and everything. Closes on the OTP can be canceled, can be returned, you know, that's one aspect. But I'm also in the process of learning how new developments work. Because I'm interested in getting to a point where I can develop new properties and help people buying into those new developments and, you know, renting some out and so on and so forth. I mean, also I'm very passionate about running my own agencies, you know. Did the full status agent thing NQF for and did the board exam. I did the NQF five, now I'm going to write the board exam for me to become a principal so that I can run my own agencies. That's where I'm going. So I'm learning that every time you do something, there's still something more that you can learn. There's still something more that you need to actually benefit from others. And I love that you're still willing to continue learning and teach yourself new things every day because like we just said, there's never enough knowledge of this thing. Never. And we just spoke about you having a good team by your side, but besides that, how else does Peter manage a day job, whether it's nine to five or however many hours you work in the day, manage that and families at home or whatever the case, maybe. Did you just say ish? You know, the truth is you feel like you should have had, you know, many hours in a day. Yeah, more than 24, come on. 24 is very small, but you know, it will not change. So instead of us really, you know, complaining or worrying too much, this is what I generally do. Of course, I don't do it every day, but most of the time that's how my days would be. Between seven and nine, I look at, you know, new leads that have come that relates to, you know, my agency duties and so on, emails respond quickly and so forth. Half past nine, then I'll be doing my optimum duties. So I'll be going to practices to look at what they're doing. Now the good part is most of the viewings that people make is inquiries for them to come and look at properties that are advertised. They are done after five, around five, six, seven. So ideally you are more likely to find me doing my optimum duties between 10 o'clock and four, five o'clock, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's how I'm able to do that. When it comes to property investing, the good part is that I do have teams of, you know, rental agents that are doing the management aspect of these properties. Because in the beginning, of course, you know, the first five years I was doing these things, they were doing placement for me, but I was doing the managing, you know, myself. Then I thought, you know what? No, let me just use the time differently. Let them do both the placement, management, and exit interviews, and so on, of all these tenants that are coming to the property. So that, you know, makes it easier for me to focus on investment purely and focus on doing my agency duties and my optimum duties here. And I think it's so important time management is key. Critical. Critical, but very important, you know? And you talk about, you've been in the property market for almost about 10 years now. It's been 10 years, a good 10 years. How do you manage to, how do you still sustain your property investment journey through all of these things that are currently happening? Yeah, it's always good for you to understand what you're doing or where you want to go. My property investing journey is not just me buying one, two properties. And then you sleep. That's not about, it's about financial freedom. It's about passive income generation. It's about finding ways to do new developments. It's about finding ways to run as an interpreter in running agencies around. Now, many of these things are going to happen, you know? We're just talking to these issues, but I mean, we don't know what's going to be happening in the next five, 10, 15 years. So these things will always happen. Now, as long as you can focus on the main goal, which is about, you know, being financially free, you know, being able to provide accommodation for many people, being able to provide platforms through which many others that are aspiring, entrepreneurs aspiring property investors would want to benefit from, you know? If you understand that, that's the bigger thing. All these things are just small. They just shrink into small events and daily events and so on, yeah. So that's basically what it's about. So you keep fixed on that goal in order to, you know, keep pushing yourself on the daily to know what, even short-term goals are very important, I believe. I believe that whether you have a goal for tomorrow, Friday, end of the week, this is very important to have, especially, and not just in property investment in life, in general, because that keeps you going, right? And, you know, we spoke about how the pandemic and these things happen, and some of these things are out of our control. And then we need to kind of adjust and realize, okay, now it's happened, what now? How do we carry on living and carry on investing? And, you know, property investors, the pandemic actually did you guys good, not necessarily. I mean, I've had one of the many tenants that we do have. We've got one that, you know, was not able to actually remain in our unit because of, you know, the impact of the pandemic. They couldn't afford to continue to pay the rent. I guess they needed to downgrade or they needed to move out and so on. But, you know, as they move out, somebody else takes the place, you know what I mean? Yeah, so it has not always been so bad, but it also has not always been so good, you know? There are lots of other opportunities that came because of this pandemic. Exactly. Those that couldn't afford to, you know, maintain their own mortgages, pay for whatever, they felt maybe they needed to sell and so on. And I mean, each time they want to sell, you know, we are available to say, we do have maybe some cash to assist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now we'll buy the property at a little lower price compared to where the market is asking for. You see what I mean? Yeah. That's all about preparation and knowing that when certain things are going to be happening or these things are going to be happening, the likely impact is we'll have lots of properties all over the place. Right. And then we can get them at discounted prices and be able to invest and move forward. Exactly. You know, just two weeks I'd go with my wife and I'd close two more deals, you know, because of the very same thing. So I'm saying it can always be, you know, the positive part. And then, yeah. Yeah, but the good part is you must focus on the bigger picture. Right. These events are going to continue. I really don't know, but maybe in the next five years, we may find also opportunities where, you know, if we have money somewhere else or equity in many of our properties, we can quickly unlock it by other properties as we go. Of course. It's a chain reaction. Keep, you know, keep buying. 100%. So Peter, you've spoken about, you know, starting your own agency and you've done your own research. You've even gone for courses to do that. I would like to find out because we spoke a lot about having a goal in this industry. Right. So what is one of your goals to own an agency? Many times it's very important for you to understand your personal abilities and your personal ambitions. I'm an entrepreneur at heart. I love to own a business, run a business, control the business, and so forth. So as an agent, I'm an employee. But as an owner of agencies, I'm the employer. I'm the entrepreneur at heart. That's how it comes in. So my goal is to actually own an agency and then maybe franchise it and have other people joining in there. But the second reason is because I want to provide a platform where many of our brothers and sisters can actually come into property investing. There's still lots of many young black brothers and sisters that don't think property investing is a way to go. Because they were not exposed. And it's primarily because our parents were not exposed. So now that some of us are exposed into these things, we need to actually find ways in which we can bring them as easily as possible. So owning an agency then becomes a platform through which they can come in, become intense, become full status agents, become principals, and then own their own agency. That's what I'm actually looking at. It's part of bridging the gap between those that are not in the industry and those that can actually come into the industry. The speaker system of our people continuously making money. 100% And I think it's so important because we spoke about this just before the show. About how our people look at property and they're just like, why? Doesn't make sense. They question this thing property and I think the only way to eventually or kind of find out is to just do it for yourself. 100%. Because like we said, you can still go do it but then do it wrong. And my thinking is if we have come into property and we have found that property investing is good and money can be made and opportunities can be created throughout the value chain, by the way, throughout the entire value chain. From being owning agencies, being agents, being landlords, and so on, throughout the entire value chain, then we must be able to open that platform for those who don't think it is. So that they can come into the picture and they can decide where to place themselves. Whether they want to own their own agencies or just work as agents, work as property investors or work as contractors who are refurbishing this thing or work in new development. So that's what this is about. Providing a platform through which I vast can enter the market and decide to actually dominate spaces where this market is going. On that note of new developments, that's another thing Peter wants to do. Of course. You want to go into big developments as well. And let's talk a little bit about that because my follow up question was going to be what is your property goal? Yeah. I've seen that property investment has both great benefits in terms of tax advantages, but also the fact that you are able to provide lots of accommodation for others that you do not have. It's one of those fulfilling things. And also the fact that you are able to make money in the process. You develop it, you sell it immediately and then you cash out and then you move to the next development. So I have seen that there are these opportunities that exist and I'm currently positioning myself in that direction because I want to actually get a sense of how this is done, what are the requirements and what do we need to look for, look at and which people are already in there that can actually mentor me into that space. So that as I get into that space, I'm not only tying with an intention to fail and learn from my mistake, but rather I'm using their experience, using their wisdom, using their skills and so on to be able to advance as quickly as I can and provide accommodation for many people as possible. We actually recently spoke about this leveraging of people and it's so important to do that. Of course. You're not, it's knowledge that they have. Of course. And they're literally giving it to you for free. So leverage of that, learn from that and then automatically you grow. Even if they charge you for that, remember for them to accumulate that kind of knowledge and experience, they pay for it. They had to get it. Yeah, I mean the same is true with me. I've made my own mistakes, you know? I mean, sometimes I give people an example about my very first property when I bought it and I realized that actually it was the second one, I bought it and then on the OTP there was a clause that I need to take occupation when guarantees are actually granted. In the event I don't, I'm accepting to actually pay around 11% interest on the balance of the purchase price. All those things at the time were just very exciting. And what was exciting was the fact that I'm buying properties. But I did not understand the financial implications and the real implications of doing what these processes are saying I should do. And guess what? A week before the property registers, the conveyancer sends me a bill and it says, you know, we are looking for around $26,000 to $29,000 because you did not move into the property. And it took around six months before they register. And I'm thinking, what is this for? They say they're clause, they're clause. So I've paid my school fees in terms of understanding why reading an OTP and understanding it is important or finding somebody who can actually advise you to do it to do the same is very important. You know what I mean? Yeah, sometimes I give another example concerning the fact that in one of our properties we just decided to close it. We're very excited about getting the title deed. We did not realize that at the time when we want to take equity out of the property, we will need to refinance it, then register a new bond and so on and so on. You know what I mean? Had we left it open, at least the amount to the bond that we initially register would be easily accessible for us to take out without re-registering another one. You know what I mean? Or even if we had to register another, at least it's just an extra money above the existing bond which may not be as expensive as registering the whole bond and so on. So all these things are lessons I've learned and I've paid my school fees. So what does it mean? If I have to be actually teaching somebody to avoid the same, I mean I should be fairly compensated. You're not, I'm not. It's okay. And you know we talk about your property goals and I want to find out from you what is your own personal goal? And I believe that our own journey and our own story contributes to what we're doing out there. For us, we want to actually become financially free. And that speaks to our passive income being able to cover our general expenses. Whether it's luxury life, whatever, it doesn't really matter. As long as the money we are able to actually receive passive wish, we'll be able to cover that. But I also have already spoken about the new development things and owning agencies and so on. What do I want? We want to create platforms. We want to create opportunities for people to enter into this industry. We want to be able to offer accommodation in the process but we want to also be able to make money in the process. That's what we're, your goals are about. Fairly so. I like how you, you don't say what do I want. I like how you use the word we all the time because you're not doing this alone, right? You have your family. Of course. I love how you say that we want financial freedom. Of course you do, but if you do it as a unit, you know, and that's... And it's always easier or much better at least from where I'm sitting to work with my partner to do other things. Because many of these decisions we have to discuss together because they may have far-reaching financial implications on them, whether I'm still alive or dead, you know what I mean? They're still affected. Of course. So that becomes very important for us to discuss this together. But also in the event that I'm gone early, you know, at least they will have the heart of what I always wanted to do. Exactly. And then my kids can always take the spirit and be able to, you know... Continue your legacy. Continue with the legacy that they are now rebuilding. And that's what we're doing. We're building generational wealth and a legacy. Destroying poverty. Destroying. And I'm telling you, destroying poverty and actually creating general wealth for the next generation. There's no need for us to live in this poverty thing any more than that. Man, it's bad. It's bad. Poverty sucks. I don't want to talk about it because I'm coming from there. Yeah, let's... I'm coming from there. Yeah, no. Okay, let's not even look that way. It's effective. You talk about, you know, and we just spoke about you need to obviously also be compensated for your knowledge and you are sharing your knowledge through the seminars and teaching other people, you know, people to how they can be more like you. Yeah. How they can even be better than what we are, you know. And I, because this is the first time homebuyer show, I want to know about common first time homebuyer mistakes that you've seen, you know, educating these people on the platforms because you're also a mentor to a few people. Of course, people don't understand the importance of these contracts that the OTP will talk about. And I guess many people possibly in your show should mention that mistake. When people buy property, they're very excited. They're first property. Remember, maybe in their family, no one ever bought a property. If they ever did, they bought it at the time when their parents were going for retirement. Now, these ones is 22, is 24, is 26. Yeah, we're buying. And it's very exciting that it's buying property. And all they want is, I love that property and therefore I want to just sign on the dotted line. They don't understand what they're signing on the dotted line. So I say to people, always read the OTP, if you don't understand it, find another opinion from another agent or another conveyance and so on. But just find somebody who can actually explain it in simple terms and make you understand the causes that are giving you an unnecessary obligation. Because some of these causes can be cancelled. So they don't have this unnecessary obligation as well. But number two, people think they are buying a property. While they are buying a neighborhood. So it's very easy for you and very tempting for you to feel like, you know what, I own this wonderful property in this street, I own this wonderful property in this area and so on. But I can tell you, it's going to be very difficult for you to sell it to investors. Investors are looking for a property that is not so wow in a wow neighborhood. Because they can even demolish that same property and build a very wonderful property and sell and make money in the process. So understand this, we are buying a neighborhood, not just the property. If the neighborhood is going down, maybe you need to run away and look for other neighborhoods around. If a neighborhood is actually going up, that's where you need to come in as quickly as possible and let your property appreciate quickly, because it will. Appreciate quickly as it can. And then you are able to take out equity and invest in other properties going forward. I mean, earlier I was making your hour that one of, actually two of the properties that we bought very early in 2010, one of them has now grown by 112 percent. That's just 10 years. So it has doubled its value and then just 12 percent more. The other one has grown by 90 percent. So it's because the neighborhood, it's actually appreciated, it's a good neighborhood. And even that, even that, we're not offering a full price. Because that's the way we progressively make money in the process. You can't just offer the asking price. They are asking for that, but it's you who has the right to make an offer. It's your money, you are offering. Tell them what you are offering. Let them reject it or accept it. That's it, you know what I mean? So many of my first-time home buyers, they're just excited, they just offer the full price. Now they send this into the bank and the bank, one bank just comes in and say, we're going to give you prime plus two. You know what they're interested in? They're just excited the fact that the bank is going to give me a bond. But they're not interested in, at what rate is this bank giving me this bond? Now that's how we feature in as mentors. Because immediately when you're very excited and your emotions are all over the place, you come to me and you say to me, I got this deal and the bank is going to give me this. I look at those figures and say, your numbers don't make sense. Call the mortgage originator, the banker. I tell them that you have a good credit scoring. Your affordability is quite good. For them to give you prime plus two or plus three does not make sense. Therefore, they need to review it. Otherwise, we will go to the next bank. I think that's the issue with a lot of first-time home buyers. We don't know who to go to when we see these things and we're like, who do we ask? I think we also think that these financial institutions aren't easily accessible and we can't easily talk to them. Because, and that's why it's so crucial to have a mentor. Yeah, and it's important for you to understand that the way you do business is not necessarily how others are doing it. Many of the people that are experienced are doing it much better than they are. And with many of these banks, if you cannot get a banker that you can speak to, there are lots of mortgage originators all over the place. Speak to them. If you have a sense that this one is not necessarily assisting, find another one. And it's your money. It's your money, yeah. Money investment and so forth. So that's very important for people to understand this part. But it's your deal, it's you who's making the deal. And therefore, if you're making a deal, you should be able to get a favorable return. Banks are in the business of making money. If they are giving you prime plus, they know they're just chowing your money. And they're very excited about that. But you mustn't be tempted to be excited unnecessarily. And I think first-time home buyers, as first-time home buyers, we shouldn't be too naive going into this process. It is exciting. It is an exciting process. Let's not take that away from it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Because it really is, you know. When you sign that line, it's exciting. Of course. And you don't expect the worst. Of course. You really don't. You are thinking everyone is looking for your own benefit. Exactly. And in reality, each person is looking for their own benefit. The agent is number one. He's looking for their own commission. The seller is looking for their own money. The bank is looking for their own interest. The mortgage originator is looking for opportunities to close the deal so that the bank can pay them and so forth. So everyone is looking for their own interest. You also need to look for your own interest. I'm not saying don't get excited. Actually, get excited. The same was true with me. I was very excited. That's why I did not see those courses or I did not understand those courses. But if you have an opportunity to find the pitas, the mentors, and the other people, that can walk you through a deal. I mean, take that opportunity. Of course. Even in my mentorship session, I also do sport mentorship. As in, you bring a deal, you look at the deal, you pay me whatever amount that you need to pay me for that deal. And after the deal, we are gone. Because my thinking is, I need to save you as much thousands as possible. But at least you must just give me some also too. To sleep at night. To sleep nice at night. And that's exactly where I want to leave it, Peter. I think that especially in the spirit of first time home buyers, be excited about this, right? Be excited. Be excited, but also be cautious. Of course. And take help from those around you, from those who can, if you can afford it. I think what's so key, and what I've learned on the show, is that if anything, if you can afford to pay for a mentor, pay. Yes. And save you lots of thousands. Exactly in the long run. We will save you, no. Even in the first deal. I say to people. Even in the short run. In the first deal, in the first deal, if you can come to our mentorship session, I can tell you, you will save over 20,000 dollars. I'm going to just charge you 500 dollars for you to come into our mentorship session. But in your first deal, you will save over 20,000 dollars. I can guarantee you that. So you are just not talking now. We are talking throughout your entire, and the experience you will then get. You can use it for your entire life. You can pass the information to your children, your partner, and everybody else. But you've got it for a little less than 500 dollars. And you can avoid making these mistakes. Making these costly mistakes. Losing 20K is a lot. A lot of these times. A lot of painful ones, you know. So Peter, just thank you. But just before we end off, and I think this is key, especially for first time home buyers, we talk about be excited. We talk about finding your property. But let's talk about that journey when looking for that perfect property, right? Maybe let's just narrow it down to three. If there are three key things that is a big no-no when looking for your first property. What are those three things that can literally make you as Peter say, No, I'm not. This is a bad investment. Okay, great. Remember my property investor? Yes. So I'm looking at opportunities for making my... Right. Number one, if I look at the property that I'm thinking, the repairs that needs to be done in this property will lead me to over-capitalize on the property rather than making money out of the property. I'm not buying it. Practical example, the roof is leaking. A lot of areas of this roof is leaking. Not to replace a roof. It's an amenity. Somebody tells you, you know what? The plumbing is not necessarily working because when the building cement got in there and therefore it's no longer working and not of that time the cement. Plumbing job can actually be very expensive. So those are some of the things I just think, you know what? Maybe that's not worth investing in. Number two, it's a question of numbers. I'm investing to make money. I'm not donating. I'm investing to make money. I need to be thinking, as I make this offer or this purchase price, what will be the implication on the bond? What will be the implication in terms of the expenses that relates to this property? And what income am I going to get in this property? If I work on my numbers and I realize my numbers are not making sense, I do one or two things. Number one, I review the offer and represent it. Number two, I work away. Because if it doesn't make sense, I can't afford to keep paying more money on to the property and so forth and so forth. The last one relates to the nature of funding. Sometimes you go into the property and you realize that you're excited, you're thinking you'll be able to get funding from the bank. And for some reason the bank doesn't give you funding. And you realize you need to be getting funding from other investors. Now getting funding from other investors can be easy, but it's more costly than getting money from the bank. So because funders or private funders, they want their money back, they want to get in terms of interest and profit, but they also want to stink. So if I look at the property and my sense is this, this deal is not going to give us enough effect, all of us as potential investors. I may have to say, maybe for now, I let it go. Right. Yeah, okay. And I think that's key to know as, and not just property investors, first-time home buyers as well. This is very important to see if, because I, and also as first-time home buyers, to know what your long-term goal is within property. Because that first home that you buy could actually just be a property investment. Of course. And then you continue buying, you know? It doesn't necessarily need to be your home. Yeah. And that's so key. So thank you so much, Peter, for sharing those facts with us today. I appreciate your time, Mr. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So our viewers at home, thank you so much. You know that we are live every Wednesday night at 8 p.m. Do not miss this.