 The Nigerian media stand in solidarity against governments' censorship moves as Nigerian newspapers express their disapproval for the controversial media bills in their respective editorials. And President Mohamed Bahari states that Nigeria is lucky to remain one country. This is plus politics and I am Mary Ann O'Connor. A round of media solidarity via major dailies in Nigeria has followed Monday's widely-seculated advertorial calling on the government to shut down two controversial media bills at the National Assembly, which are the Nigerian Press Council and the National Broadcasting Commission bills. Our newspapers and the country express their disregard for the bills in their respective editorials on Tuesday, saying that while the media is not averse to regulation, it wants it to be done without undermining its independence. The sponsor of the controversial bills, Shegun Odebuni, has now stated that the House has agreed to suspend the bills so that lawmakers would have time for proper consultations over the bill. Joining us to have this conversation is Chris Isiguzohi, the president of the Nigeria Union of Journalists and of course we have Aduratomi Boladi and Femi Di Amelik, both broadcast journalists. Thank you very much for joining us, Mr. Isiguzohi. So let me go straight to the first point. We all talk about press freedom and we know that this is a major component of our democracy worldwide. I mean, every country talks about the need for press freedom for those who do not have it and for those who have it, they try to continue to champion it. But why do you think that the Nigerian government's inclusive, I'm talking about the executive of the legislature, why do you think they're trying so hard to, you know, suppress that press freedom that we supposedly have? Well, I am not going to draw a conclusion that the government has deliberately set out to suppress press freedom. I would not align with that school of thought. Rather, I would concern myself with steps taken by the legislature to undermine free speech. There they move to amend the Niger Press Council Act. We took time to look at the provisions in that deal rather and we felt that it was a deliberate attempt to undermine democratic governance. Because key features of democracy include, especially for rule of law, if you don't allow this to thrive, then democracy cannot be said to be effective. And that's why the Nigerian press organization, which includes the NUJ, the Guild of Editors, the Municipal Appropriators Association of Nigeria, we came together and we said, we will not accept this deliberate onslaught against the Nigerian media. In the past three days, you must have discovered that we've been demonstrating opposition. So this voyage by Olushegu for Tebumi, thank God yesterday while I was on a program with him, he accepted that they were going to suspend the obnoxious deal. But we're not comfortable with that because we feel that they should completely drop it. You cannot be talking about a deal which would ultimately make impact on critical stakeholders, including the AUJ Guild and publishers. And you didn't mean necessary to engage them, to interface with them, to discuss with them. You just launch. You ambushed us and we said, no way, we will not accept it. So long as they've decided to bring the deal to the public, we decided to also resist the deal appearing in the public. That's what we have just done. So any attempt by anybody to undermine pre-feature, so pigeonhole the media to gag the press, will not be acceptable to work. And that's what we have clearly demonstrated. And what we did on the track on the 13th, I will continue to do it. We are sustaining it. And I'm happy they have at least consented to suspend it. I believe that they are going to do the needful by throwing away that obnoxious deal. I'm very interested in the fact that all the pages of the National Dailies in Nigeria had the same cover page, had the same messaging, taking a stand of sorts. But of course the same could not be said for the other part of the NUJ, which is the broadcast media. We didn't also see them show their solidarity of sorts because we saw just the Prince doing this. Why do you think that the broadcast media did not become part of this solidarity or take this stand as you have as Prince Media? Well, thank you. I don't agree with you because in the past three days, the Nigerian broadcast media have been out to task in also replicating our views in their programs. Like what you are doing now, you are also discharging your own responsibility. What we have published on the front pages of this broadcast in the last four to eight hours, 72 hours, that is only what you are doing. In the past four to eight hours, I have featured in not less than 15 broadcast stations radio, television, and the something I'm doing, my colleagues in the guild, in the NPAN, they are doing the same thing, which means we are all together in this effort to resist a deliberate attempt to guard the media industry. Like I said, the Nigerian press organization does not include the broadcast media. We have the broadcasting organization of Nigeria. We are working on a template where we are going to come together, the Prince Media, the broadcast media, so that we have one central umbrella that will be able to speak for the Nigerian media. Generally, we are working that out, but in the interim, while we are trying to fashion out that strategy, we have to continue to launch out the government we have. So now, we don't begin to try to harmonize and all that, I will miss the point. We have to really express ourselves very clearly, and I'm happy that government is listening. As we speak, the presidency has washed its hands off the bill. As we speak, the Minister of Information has done the same thing. What this means is that the executive has said they are not part of it. Now it is left for the legislature to also do the needful. If you say you want to regulate the media, we will not accept it. Go and regulate the medical profession. Go and regulate the law profession. Go and regulate engineers. Go and regulate quantity surveyors. What are they concerned about the media? As we speak, for the medical profession, we have the medical and dental counsel that regulate medical profession. We have the legal counsel that also substantially regulate the legal profession. You have the society of engineers, you have current, that regulate engineering. You have that one that regulates surveying. Why are they bothered about the media? Why must government take control of the media? We will not accept it. Let's take a look at government sincerity and put it side by side with the several similar kinds of bills that have come in the same guise of trying to either regulate the media or social media. We have seen this come up many times and the government is still saying that they are not responsible for it. Now the National Assembly has said they are suspending it or putting it aside because they want to do some consultations. But I ask you, as a journalist who has obviously worked in this country for so many years and you have liaised with governments past and present, should we take the government for the award when they say that they are not responsible, including the information minister? When all of the handwriting, especially the fact that the NBC is going to be somewhat handled or overseen by the information commissioner, and that bill gives the information minister, I beg your pardon, so much powers. If there's so much handwriting on the wall and the federal government is saying, the executive is saying, oh it's just a bill that is being sponsored. We know that bills can be sponsored by a person, but then of course that person can be fronting for anybody. We're not making accusations, but what is the sincerity of government judging from the precedents that these governments have had past and present? But what I want to tell you is that the holy book says, a thousand will fall by your right hand. Other tens of thousands will appear on your left, but none shall come near you. As many times as they come up with bills aimed at silencing the media, as many times they will fail. You will agree with me that the social media bills have failed, have failed. This one too will fail. Legislations that will substantially take care of such issues that they are bringing up. The issue of libel, the issue of sedition, the issue of health care. We have the cyber crime act of 2015, even though we are not too comfortable with that, but it's a law, a law on libel. We have a law on sedition. We have laws that take care of fake news. All they need to do is have a legislator. If there are needs to review them, that is why we have a legislator. So whether they are sincere or not, I don't want to double into it. So Mr. Tegucco, you're telling me that you'd rather prefer that we have a review of our media laws than actually get a new bill that totally changes things. You're saying that especially for the cyber crime laws, you're thinking that maybe we should review them. So if you are thinking this, what is the media or the NUJ alongside the other journalists doing to press upon whoever it is that is on the committee on information to push a bill like that or push for a review of some of these laws that you think have become moribund? If the legislator wants to review existing laws, if those laws... They're not the ones who are practicing journalism in Nigeria. If you feel that a law that is regulating your industry, your part of your work, shouldn't you be the ones to bring up the idea? They're legislators. They have lots of things to legislate on. But if it pinches you where you... I mean, you're the one who wears the shoe. Shouldn't you be the one bringing the ideas forward to the National Assembly? We have tried this strategy in the past. And when ABKW was in the House of Representatives and attempts to come up with what you're talking about failed along the line because stakeholders could not agree. As it stands now, the NUJ is also thinking with the Journalism Enhancement Bill. And when we are done packaging it, of course we'll go through relevant committees in the House, in the National Assembly, to get them packed. We are doing that. We are not on mindful of the fact that we have some of these things that we need to tidy up, send them up to make the media practice stronger, more formidable, free from some of these challenges that stay out in the face every other now, every time and now and then. So we are conscious of that fact. But in the interim, we must look at what government is doing. If they think they have things they need to do to review existing laws, it's a question of engaging, interfacing, this thing with stakeholders. We should be able to operate as one, not operating as customers. So does that mean that the media in Nigeria, whether it's print, whether it's the traditional or social, does that mean that there's no cohesion, there's no synergy of sorts? And you're saying that because you started by saying the stakeholders did not agree. So does it mean that your house is divided against itself? And that's why you cannot come to an agreement of sorts to push forward your demands on the floor of the National Assembly? And I will not double into that. Well, please explain yourself because you said the stakeholders need to be in agreement. Who are these stakeholders? Abduke Dabrihu is a journalist. He didn't fly because certain segments of stakeholders didn't agree with the content. Damn, that's what I said. I didn't say that we're not working together. So Abduke Dabrihu is no longer on the floor of the National Assembly. And we're in 2021. Shouldn't we have continued to talk about this issue and continue to liaise with these stakeholders to come to some form of agreement? Why are we still talking about the fact that it failed and that we have folded our arms to wait until now that the National Assembly has pushed another bill for us to speak up? What you said, you are trying to put words in my mouth, but I think my points are very clear. Well, I'm just following what you said and I'm saying we're in 2021. That one failed. And if you feel that these laws need to be amended and whatever happened then did not sit well, you have to have some form of continuous conversations and liaisons. Enough time for us to engage tonight. Let me tell you, as we speak, in court, challenging the existing MPC acts. We won at the Court of Sesting Standards. Now we have challenged the judgment of the appeal court and the Supreme Court to convince the process. The legislature should operate by rules. That's exactly what's happening here. We are following ones to circumvent the process by coming with a bill. We said no, we must respect the laws of the law while we are also discussing. I guess you understand me now. Well, I get you. So going forward now that because you started also by saying that you expressing the sentiment that you do not agree with the suspension and you think that the bill should be jettisoned totally. If the bill is, I mean, because it's suspended doesn't mean that they might not revisit it. But going forward, how do you think that we should, the media space in Nigeria should be governed? Let's not forget that we still have the Twitter ban hanging over our heads. And of course, yesterday in the news, the Presidency talked about the move to also regulate WhatsApp and the rest of them. How do you think that the media space in Nigeria should be handled, especially under this administration? And going forward, how do I think what? How do you think the media space should be governed in Nigeria being that Nigeria somewhat is the big brother of Africa and when it comes to free speech and, you know, the freedom of the press, most nations look to us because this sudden level of freedom that we enjoy in the country. But going forward, how do you think that the media space should be governed in Nigeria and regulated? Well, I know that we have our own internal regulatory process for the AUJ, for the guild, for the FBN. We have our own laid down rules on how to treat any form of infraction by members. The fact that a doctor has committed an infraction will not make the government to shut the medical and dental council. It doesn't happen that way. Definitely you will have some people that will step out of line. It's normal. But we continue to insist and instill discipline in the practice. So while we are trying to come up with other improved laws, we have our own internal mechanism for taking care of every member. Those things are there. So government should not be in a haste to stifle the media space. We as professionals, as practitioners, we should be allowed, it is the practice of other clients. If you are talking about social media, it's a different thing altogether. We have WhatsApp, Facebook, Instagram and the rest of them. If you go to other developed clients, they don't regulate the end users. If you say that the foreign rights should not be put into the country, all you need to do is to close the borders. Make sure that they don't come into the country. Not when somebody has proceeded in bringing it to a shop in one cross-fifth age. You now go there and impound. That's not the way it is done. You don't regulate end users. If you want to regulate, regulate the owners of the platform. WhatsApp has got an owner. Facebook has got an owner. Instagram has an owner. You don't regulate end users. There's no place if it's done. Okay. Just to push you a bit farther before we go. Yes, you've talked about the fact that we have internal ways of dealing with our journalists of correcting, dealing with slander, libel, all of those things. But then of course there is that say about the brown envelope. These days they no longer are brown. They're now white. How do we also reform and repurpose the average journalist to the average Nigerian because some people would say that our journalists have become tools in the hands of politicians. It's a say. I do not agree with it because I'm not a tool in the hands of any politician. No, I'm going somewhere. Just hold on. I'm going somewhere. Yes. But how do we also rebrand the average journalist in Nigeria so that people do not see us in that light any longer? And do you think that we are as journalists a threat to the Nigerian politician and I'm talking about every politician in Nigeria? I would ask you if you are a member of the Niger union of journalists. I don't want to go into that. Maybe we'll talk about some other time. But for those who are members of the union, we have programs, retraining programs, advocacy programs, capacity building programs. And these programs are preparing journalists, practitioners, to be able to cope with the dynamics in the system. Global dynamics, global realities. We have such programs that are on with, you know... How do we cope with global realities when we're poorly paid, poorly enumerated, and so you hear excuses like, well, you have to make money on the side to survive. And so you see people taking monies from people to write stories or asking. I've not seen people taking that. You are talking about brown people. I'm not aware of that. I don't expect you to admit on national TV that you are aware of it. I do not expect you to... I do not expect you, as the NUJ president, to admit on national TV that there are journalists who take kickbacks or brown people. I'm not aware of that. Exactly. And I knew that you were going to give me that answer. But how do we... When I asked that question, I was asking... When I said rebrand and I talked about how do we repurpose, because we need to be playing on the same level on the international space that, as you have mentioned, training and retraining is not enough. What about the welfare of the average journalist in Nigeria? Is that taken into consideration, whether they work for private or for public? I can assure you that as a union, we are taking that very seriously. This is welfare, because you cannot impose a hungry man. Because a hungry man is an hungry man. And oftentimes, a hungry man does not operate by rules. So we are conscious of that fact. The issue of welfare is very, very necessary in our engagement. And we are doing that. The issue of poor remuneration, we are taking them up. The issue of the electric remuneration, we are taking them up. These are issues that are on the front burner. And we are not taking them with levity. Well, I want to say thank you very much. Mr Sigridorff for joining us. He is the national president of the Nigerian Union of Journalists. Thank you so much for speaking with us. We appreciate it. My pleasure. All right. Well, thank you all for being part of this conversation. We'll take a short break. And when we return, President Buhari speaks on the unity of Nigeria in the face of a plethora of challenges facing the country. Stay tuned.