 And we're back live. We are young talents making way only here on Fink Tech, Hawaii. I'm Andrea Gabrielli. I'm your host. And every Tuesday we keep an eye on the future with our most brilliant school students as we talk about their science projects. But you know, to understand the future and even the present, sometime we need to look at the past. But what if the past is primordial, such as the origin of the solar system and even our planet? Apparently, a meteorite has a lot to say about this. And so joining me today is Chloe Kalani from Mililani High School. Nice to have you here, Chloe. Nice to have you here. Thank you for having me. Thank you. And we also thank Taizen Kikugawa, physics teacher at Mililani High School. And Elizabeth Kumin Shields, who are here with us today. Thank you. Thank you for being here. So Chloe, and what does a meteorite tell you? What sort of stories can it tell us? So meteorites act as like time capsules for scientists to look back on. And what they can tell us because they're about 4.56 billion years old, at least in the case of chondrites, is that the different processes that happened within the solar system and even outside of the solar system that we can observe and look at. Wow. Where can we find them? They are in the solar system. Are they in a specific region of the solar system? So the specific meteorite that I studied, chondrites, come from S-class asteroids. And then they're broken down over time. And then as they go through the Earth's atmosphere, they create their fear. They burn, such as the one we're looking at behind us, yeah. So maybe let's have our first slide up so you can tell us something about what you did as part of your science project. So look at that. What are we looking at here? So the first picture is a picture of my wonderful mentor, Dr. Elizabeth Kuhlman-Shield. She really helped me throughout this entire process using the instruments and helping me find, clarifying information, helping me with the data. The next picture on the top row in the middle is a picture of the inside chamber of the SCM EDS, or the Sky Electron Microscope. This is one of the sensors that you have used as part of your project? Yes. Okay. And then the right is a picture of the sample that I used. Oh, okay. It was called the H6 ordinary chondrite butsura. The bottom left picture is a picture of how we have to set up the sample on the specimen. This is like, that's right, it looks like a plate and so yeah, okay. And then so that was inserted inside of the SCM, and then we can look at it from there. That's the stage that moves. That's right. Okay. We can look at it. And then the last picture is a picture of me on the SCM EDS using the NSS spectral software. Wow, okay. Looking at sample area. So you are sitting in front of the computer and everything, yeah. Okay. So this is, a meteorite can tell us a lot about the origin of the solar system and as part of your project, I understand that you took this particular meteorite, which is called a chondrite, and you started it using what? What did you use? So I tested with the scanning electron microscope coupled with energy dispersive X-ray spectroscopy, and I compared that data to two previous studies using the inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometer, which is the ICP. These are really, yeah. We're going to have some pictures to explain what these complicated sensors really are, yeah. Which is the ICP-MS and then the electron probe micro analyzer, which is the E-PMA. Okay. So let's have our next slide up so we can see something about, okay, so this is a figure that illustrates, I guess, the different types of meteorites, yeah. So the highlighted sections are the class I specifically focused on. So under the undifferentiated meteorites are the main class of chondrites. And then under those many different types of chondrites, I focused primarily on the ordinary chondrites, which break into H, L and LL, which are described the composition. So H chondrites are mainly composed of heavy metals like magnesium and iron. Okay. Okay. So you focused on these heavy metals for this particular class of meteorites. All right. Let's have our next slide up so we can see, okay, so these are the three complicated sensors that you mentioned earlier. What are the, what can you tell us about these three particular sensors? Yeah. Okay. So the left picture is a picture of the ICP-MS or the inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometer. And mainly what happens in that the sample of the meteorite is dissolved in acid and introduced to the interface as an aerosol or a liquid. So is it, does that mean that the sample is destroyed? It means it's destroyed. Oh, wow. I can't get that sample back. So we can't do any more studying on that particular sample because once we run the sensor, it's gone forever. Yes. Yeah. Okay. What about the one we're looking in the center? The center is the scanning electron microscope with energy dispersive X-ray spectroscopy. That is a non-destructive method. It uses the idea of secondary electrons with a primary beam which makes contact with the sample. And basically through that process it emits a X-ray, a unique X-ray photon for each element and then the EDS is able to pick up and determine the chemical composition. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so we're looking at, there is a third one. That's the electron probe micro analyzer or the EPMA. As you can see in the picture, the SEM and EPMA actually look pretty similar. Like the difference with the EPMA is that it utilizes WDS or wavelength dispersive spectroscopy which is just a different principle than the EDS. Okay. So why did you consider these three sensors? You wanted to measure the sensitivity of each of these sensors and also why did you actually choose these sensors? Well, all three sensors are commonly used to determine the chemical composition of meteorites but they're all used for many different purposes. So I basically looked at the weaknesses and the strength of all three of them. So the strength of ICPMS is that it has very high detection limits. So you can basically guarantee, not guarantee, but basically trust the data that you're getting from it that it would be valid with a very high accuracy. Yeah. And then same with the EPMA, however, with the ICPMS you have to destroy the sample. Destroy it, which is not convenient. But it's not very ideal considering that meteorites, you know, you don't have a lot of them in hand. So the weakness of the EPMA is that it's very time consuming. It requires a lot of calibration for each of the wavelength that you want to find. So it's not a very easy process to use. Okay. However, the SCM addresses both of those issues. It's a non-destructive technique, which means you don't have to destroy the sample. And it's a quick qualitative analysis because it uses the standard list peaks of the EDS. But because it's standard list, we don't really know the precision of the data that we're getting back from it. Okay. And so this is why you decided to see, okay, these sensors. Wow. Okay. So this idea of carrying out this research to see what the limitations and strengths of each of these sensors came from an event which you attended, I believe. Yes. Last year during the summer, I attended a astronomy program called High Star held at UH. And then, so it's basically a camp that taught us like the astronomy basics. But what we did within that program is we did a smaller group project. And then I was partnered with my current mentor, Elizabeth Kuhn-Schild. And then we did a small-scale project where we got to work on the SCM EDS looking at this particular sensor. Simply just trying to identify different types of meteorites. And then from there, I noticed that the data we were getting back from the SCM EDS didn't match the data that we were supposed to be getting as part of just a small activity. And then I started to really question, is this a really precise way of getting our chemical analysis? In these meteorites. That's amazing because by basically being able to work with professional researchers, you came up with, you know, a new research idea and then you carried out this project. And also you got some help as well for this particular project. And this is what brought you to the state of Hawaii Science and Engineering here. Wow. That's really, you know, it's wonderful. When you get to work with professionals, you can really see what they do and what they study. Let's have our next slide up so we can see more about this project that you did. Okay. So this is, this looks like... So this is the sample that I looked at. It's an H6 ordinary chondrite butsura. This is just under a normal light microscope. And then... A piece of rock that was in space orbiting the sun. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And how do you get these meteorites? Because you mentioned there's not a lot of them. How did you get this particular sample? So I was graciously allowed access to the UH's collection of meteorites. Of meteorites, yeah. And then my mentor was able to provide me a sample. The actual sample. Wow. Okay. And then I just like to address that in the picture it looks really big but in real life that was about half a centimeter. Wow. Okay. So tiny, tiny sample. Okay. Okay. Let's see some more slides that you brought us today. Okay. So what are we looking at here? So this is what I would be seeing on the interface of the computer when I was using the SEM EDS. Yeah. The three, the top row and then the left picture are pictures of the sample areas that I looked at. It's under a mode called backscatter electron. So that displays all the different grays and whites. The white areas are areas of high metals so you would see mostly magnesium and iron there. That's the heavy metal that you mentioned earlier. Okay. Yeah. And then the darker areas are all mostly silicates. Silicates. Okay. Okay. And stuff like that. Well, the bottom right picture would be how I set up each point analysis. So I set up in a 5x5 grid about 50 microns apart from each other. So these are the blue symbols that you put over this picture? Yeah. Okay. The blue symbols. So I took about 25 per each sample area. Okay. I repeated this about 75 times to get over 2000 points. Wow. Okay. So did it take you to complete this analysis? Basically, you know, weeks or? Once or twice a week for about six hours or two months. Wow. Okay. So this is a lot of, you know, work and time that you had to. Okay. Wow. Okay. Okay. Let's see some more slides. Okay. So these are your results? Some graphs? So this would be the raw data, I would say. So each of those points that you saw, the blue points, the one graph corresponds to each of those one points. So this would be the peak analysis. It counts the amount of peaks of each element. And then from there it can, the software is able to determine the weight percentage. So here each peak basically represents a particular mineral or element that you can find into this meteorite. Okay. Okay. Wow. So we're really learning a lot about the stories that a meteorite can tell us and this research that you carried out comparing three particular sensors to, you know, get these stories. And so now it is time to take a break, but we're going to be back soon to learn more about this amazing meteorites and particles of rocks that you can find in the solar system with Chloe Kalani here at Young Talent's Making Way on Think Tech Hawaii. We'll be back soon. I'm Pete McGinnis-Mark and every Monday at one o'clock I'm the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Research in Manoa. And at that program we bring to you a whole range of new scientific results from the university ranging from everything from exploring the solar system to looking at the earth from space, going underwater, talking about earthquakes and volcanoes and other things which have a direct relevance not only to Hawaii, but also to our economy. So please try and join me one o'clock on a Monday afternoon to Think Tech Hawaii's Research in Manoa. And see you then. Good afternoon. My name is Howard Wigg. I am the proud host of Code Green, a program on Think Tech Hawaii. We show at three o'clock in the afternoon every other Monday. My guests are specialists from here and the mainland on energy efficiency, which means you do more for less electricity and you're generally safer and more comfortable while you're keeping dollars in your pocket. And we're back live. We are Young Talent's Making Way here on Think Tech Hawaii. And today we're talking about meteorites with Chloe Kalani from Mililani High School. Thank you for being with us today. Thank you. So this experiment, you selected this particular class of meteorites called chondrites. You got a sample and you compared what three sensors can tell us about this particular sample. So what have you learned as part of this project? Like personal? No, about the meteorite, about the three sensors. So overall, the overall conclusion was that SEM-EDS is a feasible method for looking at major elements, which are the elements that make up the bulk of the sample. However, when you want to look at trace elements or elements that are below 1,000 parts per million, it's really not an ideal method to look at those elements. You would want to more go towards the ICPMS or the EPMA. Another interesting finding I found was that the SEM-EDS for major elements didn't tend to overestimate or underestimate any of the elements that I looked at. They were all nicely in the middle between the EPMA and the ICPMS ranges. Looking at the trace elements, the SEM-EDS data was nowhere. If you look at the slide. Let's see some more slides so you can tell us more about these results. Yeah. Okay, let's see the next one. Okay. These are the major elements and the trace elements you're mentioning about. Graphs. Okay. Let's see the next one. Yeah. Okay. So here. So this would be an example of a major element I sampled. This would be a silicon. The silicon, yeah. So the red line would represent the ICPMS, which would be the upper bound of my range. The blue line would be the EPMA, which is the lower. And then the SEM you can see is just in the middle between both of them. And that was normally the trend for all of my major elements. Okay. So, since typically the ICPMS or the EPMA are accepted values of the meteorite composition, you could determine that SEM-EDS would be feasible for looking at major elements. This is amazing that you had this idea of actually comparing these three sensors, considering one destroys the sample. And so it's not very good to carry out research or something. The other one takes forever. It's very long to actually carry out these studies. And the third one is the one that you actually came up with this idea of testing and see what kind of analysis, the precision as well for these sensors can see. So you went to the state of Hawaii Science and Engineering Fair with this project, with this idea. How was it? What kind of experience personally have you gained over there? I attended districts. And then from there it was really fun just trying to explain the project to a lot of other people, especially like the judges and just the normal observers. Oh, the answer does as well. And this is something very interesting because it's something that could also be, could also, could this process your idea of using this particular sensor to look at meteorites without taking forever and destroying the sample? Could it be used for other purposes as well? Or maybe some forensic analysis or? The SCM-EDS is also widely used in a lot of other fields like forensics and meteorites as well. Meteorites as well, yeah. Material science. As you proved. Material science. And then like food science. Wow. So a lot of potential applications as well. Wow. Okay. So why did you get passionate about meteorites and stars and these particular sensors? Well, I've always really had an interest in geology and astronomy. So meteorites are like a nice combination of the two. You put them together. Wow. Okay. So like to understand the characteristics of the meteorite and the different components that go into it, it requires understanding chemistry and geology and all those things. But understanding what it means in a larger context in the universe, you would have to understand astronomy. So I thought it was a really nice balance between them both. It's amazing. It really is. It really is. And I understand that as part of your duties at Mililani High School, you also are the president of the Science Club at Mililani High School. Wow. So what kind of activities do you do as part of this club at your school? So the main thing that the Mililani Science Club participates in is a competition known as Science Olympiad. Wow. It's a national competition, but so far we compete statewide. It's basically like an Olympics for many different types of branches of science. For science. Olympics of science. Wow. I like that idea. Yeah. And then so as a club, we compete as a team, but each individual competes in a different event, in a different branch of science. So do you do meteorites? So my event would be rocks and minerals. Rocks and minerals. Astronomy. And astronomy as well, okay. So this is another event, which is other than the state of Hawaii Science and Engineering Fair. So we can see that Mililani High School is really involved with all these activities and everything. How often do you meet with this Science Club at Mililani High School? So competition season normally would start around September. So from there on, we would meet about once or twice every two weeks, just going over general information, as well as we have study sessions every Saturday from eight to twelve. Eight to twelve. Okay. So that's a, I mean, it's a, yeah, I am. We just come in and like review the concepts or study for the tests or tests. How does that, because we are familiar with the state of Hawaii Science and Engineering Fair and its rules with district fairs and everything, but how does this works? How is the, how is this competition carried out? So if we're competing against other schools. So every school has a Science Club. And so. So we would, so it would usually take place on a whole day and then we would have a schedule that each event, like let's say there are like fifteen different events. So each person would just go into their designated place and then do the, take the test or do the lab. The test and the lab. So you mentioned, you're doing minerals and rocks for this geological point of view. What other areas of science do you, do you have students that, you know, carry out projects for this competition? All different kinds. There's a chemistry event. There's a, looking at cell biology. There's epidemiology. Wow. There's many different kinds, what I'm, what I'm, okay. All different branches of science, material science as well. So what, do you have, so obviously you are passionate about this geology and astronomy. So rocks that you can find in space, these meteorites and these chondrites. Do you have an idea of what you might see yourself in the future? What might be your, you know, future aspirations or something? We're curious here. Think that Hawaii. I'm not quite sure what major I would want to go into, but I definitely would want to go into a science field, go to a college. Into science as well. Wow. Okay. Okay. That's very nice. So maybe we have some time for some more slides that you brought us here today. We can see, these are still more of the magnesium and the elements that we showed. Let's have our next slide up. Okay. So this is the trace elements. The trace elements, yeah. So we mentioned this before, but what are they? Trace elements are myoperational definition of trace elements where all elements that were below 1,000 parts per million or 0.1 weight percentage. So they are elements that are present, but they are very, very rare. Okay. Okay. We have about one minute left in this conversation today. Could you summarize a little bit for us what you did as part of these projects and the importance of it? So I analyzed the chemical elemental composition of a meteorite using three different types of instruments, the ICPMS, the EPMA, and the SCM EDS. And basically what I found was that the SCM EDS is a feasible method of looking at major elements, however not trace elements. And the trace elements, yeah. Or if you would like to have a fast and non-destructive method of testing, SCM is the way to go, however if you want to look at more in-depth and look at trace elements, the ICPMS or the EPMA may be more beneficial to you. And it's important because meteorites are like rare time capsules for us to look at. So if we want to look back at processes of the universe or the solar system, they would be one of your only available specimens to observe. Tools to see. Wow. Thank you so much for coming to us today, Chloe. Thank you. And we thank also our audience. And this is Young Talent's Making Way, only here on Fintech, Hawaii. Next Tuesday at 11 a.m., we will be back for more. Stay tuned.