 It's a privilege and so much fun to be the president of the Women's Giving Alliance. I get to spend most of my days in rooms full, although not this full, always, of smart, interesting, incredible women. The Women's Giving Alliance is a collective giving grant-making organization and a proud initiative of the Community Foundation for Northeast Florida. Our mission is to inspire women to become strategic philanthropists and to improve the lives of women and girls in Northeast Florida. The way collective giving works is that every member makes the same annual, fully tax-deductible donation. We pool these gifts and our members run a sophisticated grants process to decide how several large grants will be made each year. At our annual meeting in October, members vote to ratify the grant recommendations. Since 2002, we have awarded over $4.5 million in grants. For WGA, here's how the math works. Each of us makes an annual donation of $1,500. $150 helps to fray our expenses at TCF. $350 goes into our endowment, which has grown to over $2.6 million that will serve the needs of women and girls in our community forever. And $1,000 goes into the grants pool. Last year, 365 members pooled their funds to make $395 in grants to four local agencies. For the last four years, our grants have all been about improving access to mental health resources for women and girls in our community. And ladies, I hope you saw yesterday's paper, yet another op-ed with the words mental health in the headline, and a letter. Denise, where are you? Denise Marzullo. We need to give you a big round of applause. Denise, come on, stand up. Denise Marzullo, the CEO of Mental Health America, informing us that there was $53 million in new dollars coming in the mental health budget for Florida for the next year. So that's real impact. Denise, thank you so much. The grants are important, but we don't just give grants. We run education programs like this one. We make a little noise about issues of concern to our grantees, and we conduct our own research into the needs of women and girls in the community. Last week, we debuted our third generation of research, and I encourage you to grab a copy of this report, Voices of Hope, on when you leave. You can also access the underlying facts and figures on our website, as can everyone in the community. This research will be the basis of helping us to decide what our next focus area will be. For those who are guests, we encourage you and welcome you to join us, because every new member brings us new ideas, talents, and energy, and expands the virtuous circle a little bit further. You can be as involved as you would like or not. Many of our members simply write a check, read their e-news, and come to lunch once a year. Others, like Sheila and I, jumped in with both feet, and there's a wide range in between. If you're interested in joining and would like to have your contribution be a part of our last grant cycle focusing on mental health, you should be aware that our grants pool closes April 30th, but women are welcome to join whatever time of year is coming for you. And if joining for you is not the right thing to do right now, we encourage you to follow us on social media to see what else is going on, and welcome you to our events. We are at Women's Giving Jax, and the hashtag for today is WGA Women Lead Jax. And now I'm delighted to introduce WGA member and friend Audrey Moran. Audrey is one of the most recognizable and recognized leaders in this community. She was the chief of staff to Mayor John Delaney demonstrating her ability to get things done in government, and Rand was the CEO of the Salisbacher Center for the Homeless demonstrating her commitment to the nonprofit sector. She is currently juggling beautifully two full-time jobs. One as senior VP of Social Responsibility and Community Advocacy at Baptist, the largest private employer in Northeast Florida, and one is the chair of the Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce. Most recently, with the support of both organizations, she leveraged her high-profile platform and reputation to fearlessly lead on the issue of human rights and the need for a fully inclusive human rights ordinance. She and the Jax Chamber have also just chalked up a huge win for our community by getting the pension fund fixed legislation passed, both houses of the Florida Legislature. And on a personal level, she's so much more fun than all that makes her sound like. Audrey. Thank you Paula. Welcome. We are so glad you are here today. Let's go ahead and roll the pictures of international leaders and their quotes if we can. I hope you all had a chance to look at some of those very inspiring women, inspiring quotes. There certainly is not a lack of women who are able and ready and willing to lead. They really do exist and they exist in great numbers right here in Jacksonville. Especially in my role at the chamber, I get to talk about the city all the time. And every chance I get, I love to share the fact that there are amazing, amazing things about Jacksonville, Florida, our river, our ocean, our parklands, neighborhoods of every size and shape and personality. But what I also add to that list is, it's a fabulous community of women. So thank you all for being part of that community. But we need more in leadership. We need more women in leadership, whether it is in the for-profit sector, the not-for-profit sector, corporate boards and commissions, or politics. We need more women. We know, and a growing body of research shows, that when women are at the table, good things happen. In an April 2015 column entitled, What if Women Made the Decisions, Times Union editor Frank Denton cited findings of a compilation of over 400 studies of the impact of women leaders in business. A couple of things they found you might find interesting. Boards of directors with three or more women are significantly different from all male boards. They have more accountability, more effective communication, and greater emphasis on such non-financial aspects as customer and employee satisfaction, innovation, and corporate social responsibility. All of which I would say ultimately lead to a better bottom line. Women, in the words of the researchers, lighten up the boardroom atmosphere and foster, quoting again, more civilized behavior and sensitivity to other perspectives. Wow. I would say this world needs more of that today, more than at any time in our history. The business case for women leaders contends that companies that achieve diversity and manage it well, do better. Their bottom line is better. A 2011 study sponsored by Catalyst shows the impact of women directors on performance, the higher the number of women on boards, the more they outperform all other companies. Return on equity at least 46 percent higher. Return on invested capital at least 60 percent higher. Return on sales at least 84 percent higher. There is a reason to do this. So in the political arena we've seen powerful examples of how women can get things done and break gridlock. You will remember the gridlock that gripped the federal government in 2013 and it was a cadre of women in the Senate and in Congress who got together and said it's up to us to break the gridlock. It's up to us to cross party lines and make things happen and they did. But as we know, still only 20 percent of U.S. senators are women. And locally, we made some progress this past year, but we're still not near the numbers we were 15 years ago. We have four women on the city council. Good news however is we had more women than ever running for office and I would dare say that that means the next go round, more women elected to our city council, thanks to the work of all of you and many of you in this room. It's clear that a critical mass of women in any policymaking or governing body public or private has a measurable impact. The Women's Giving Alliance shows that in a great way. They've demonstrated time and time again the profound impact of smart, dedicated, committed women coming together to make a difference in this community. And I will tell you that but for the Women's Giving Alliance, the attention that this community has paid to mental health never would have happened. The Women's Giving Alliance deserves a huge thanks. Bringing that issue to the forefront and bringing in partners and collaborators and other people to be part of the work. I worked for a mayor a long time ago, Mayor Ed Austin who used to say, Audrey imagine what we can accomplish if we all stop worrying about who gets the credit. Women are great at that. We are great at lifting each other up, of giving credit to others, of collaborating and partnering. And you've got examples right here on this stage of women who understand very, very well the power of partnership, the power of collaboration and the power of women. This is a legendary panel of women. And that's what my notes say, legendary. And I am very excited to share the stage with each of them today because each of them are going to bring their unique and individual perspective to this conversation of women in leadership. The other thing I love about each of these women not much of a filter. So sit back and get ready because this will be one of those real unscripted conversations and I hope you enjoy it. So let me just give you a brief introduction of each of these women. Many of you know them. You also have introductory materials at your places. But first help me welcome Madeleine Scales-Taylor. I'd like to describe Madeleine as beautiful, not only on the outside but on the inside. She has had a powerful career in retail and at the Vaulted Mayo Clinic where she held executive positions and created fundamental change. But she also has been very, very active in the Jacksonville community serving on boards all across our city and currently serving on the Bethune Cookman Board, the Community Foundation Board and the Board of LISC. She is also a sought after mentor for women in business because people love to learn from her success. Welcome, Madeleine. Next is my friend Donna Orender. She is fairly quiet and shy. So really try to help her. We'll try to pull her out of her shell for this conversation. Anyway, she is a dear friend and the president and CEO of Orender Unlimited. And if you know Donna, you know that Unlimited captures this woman both in energy and passion. She's had a fabulous career at the PGA Tour as president of the Women's NBA and now as president and chief executive officer of Orender Unlimited, the founder and producer of the Gen W Conference. Coming up again in April, how many have you been to Gen W? If you haven't signed up, it's a great, great event. Welcome, Donna Orender. Another one of my newer friends on the panel today is Dr. Wenying Zhu. Wenying and I had the opportunity to attend the Aspen Ideas Festival last summer together and I had a chance to understand what an incredible asset she is to the Jacksonville community. She's only been here a little more than 18 months. She's the provost of Jacksonville University and they did an international search for that position. Many of you know President Tim Cost is changing that organization in every single way and he picked a partner that is smart and dedicated and brings 30 years of experience and higher education to help him transform not only Jacksonville University but the Arlington community as well. Welcome, Dr. Wenying Zhu. I have the real privilege to introduce my friend of 25 years, Pam Paul. Pam is an icon in this community. As you all know, I believe there's probably not a single person in this room who doesn't know her or know of her but she has been instrumental in so many of the good things that have happened in this community and continues today to work hard to create change oftentimes for people who have no voice. Her passion is children. She was one of the people that helped create the Jacksonville Children's Commission and that passion continues today with the Newtown Success Zone and her leadership with that work. She has been the confidant in a dollar a year mentor to two different mayors. She is the kind of person who with a whisper and a nod can change the direction of a city. She is strong, smart, and brings a fabulous perspective to today's panel and I'm proud to call her my friend. Welcome, Pam Paul. And to my left is Melissa Bodry. Melissa Bodry is a force of nature. She graduated from Florida State University just a couple of years ago, arrived on the Jacksonville scene, rolled up her sleeves, and jumped in to make a difference right away. You know, that's one of the things I tell young people that I'm recruiting to Baptist Health is, you know, we don't make you wait your turn in Jacksonville. If you want to help, come on in. And she certainly lives and breathes that. She is currently a public affairs consultant with Langston and Associates. She is a Dolores Barr Weaver Fellow with the Women's Giving Alliance. She is very engaged in politics in this community, working hard with a 9 and 15 initiative is involved at Unity Plaza Emerging Leaders. She is a face you will see most everywhere you go, Melissa Bodry. And last but not least, my good friend, Sabine Perwaze. Sabine recently received the appointment to become the Executive Director of the Florida Nonprofit Alliance in just two weeks. She is a Dynamo as well. She is the Executive Director of TEDx Jacksonville. That is a volunteer role for her, a passion for her. And if you've been to any of the TEDx events, you know how incredible they are and her leadership on that has made a huge difference. But I will tell you, she's one of those people who puts passion into action on a regular basis. She had a real concern about some of the dialogue, some of the controversy, some of the politics that was playing into conversations about our refugee community. And she came to me and she said, Soadry, I'm thinking about having a conversation, honest, sometimes difficult conversation about what refugees in our community are facing, specifically the Syrian refugees. What do you think? So I think that's great. But how are you going to do it? And she said, I don't know, I'm going to figure it out. And she did. And 200 people arrived at the Riverside Presbyterian Church on a Tuesday evening to hear civil discourse on the issue of refugees. Welcome, Sabine Poise. So I think I probably could just say each of you take 10 minutes and talk and it would be fascinating, but we're not going to do it that way. We're going to have some questions, which will hopefully spark some conversation. And you will remember when we're preparing, I said, don't wait your turn, jump in. I don't think I need to actually tell this group that. But we are going to leave time at the end for questions. So if you think of something you want to ask, make a note of it and we're going to make sure we get to that as well. I want to start with this. I've been reading a lot lately about something called the confidence gap for women. And one of the studies that I read about that talked about the fact that if there is a job application with 10 criteria for that particular job, if men have six of those criteria, they will apply. And believe they have a real shot at getting it. Women on the other hand, even with all 10, may hesitate. Is it, do I think I have enough experience? Oh, that criteria. Number nine might not be quite right. It's an interesting conversation. You have women filled with confidence on the stage, women in this audience filled with confidence. But the confidence gap, I saw many of you nodding as I talked about those statistics, is real. I want to get your perspective on the confidence gap, what you've seen in your work today and perhaps what you may have experienced yourself when it comes to confidence over the course of your career. So, Madeline, let's start with you. I knew you were going to start with me. You knew that. She knows me so well. I knew it. It was so sweet of me. She goes to the oldest. I have seen it. I've seen it. I just left college campus yesterday. And I've seen it very often in young women who feel that they must have every single I dotted and everything on the list before they're ready to come forward. And I say to them, you are there. You don't need to wait. And that that you don't know, you can learn once you've gotten there. I can't say that I ever felt that way. On a personal level. And I think that and to many in many ways that may have had to do with the fact that I was an only child for many years. So, you know, when you're an only child, your father tells you you can do anything you want. Whereas I think when there's a male child and a female child, they defer to the male child sometimes. So I'm still seeing it. Unfortunately, I am seeing it. Thank you. Melissa, how about you? Yeah, so I think I've definitely experienced it in several ways. But also I just had a friend experience. She just applied for a job and she felt like she wasn't qualified. And I had to tell her, you got to take the chance. What do you got to lose? Because even if you feel like you don't have all of the criteria right now, you're probably going to learn something along that process that will make you even more qualified or learn be able to have an even stronger application on the next round. She, of course, got the job, went through with flying colors. But she needed that push. She needed that mentorship, that feeling, that safety net that she was going to do well. And if she didn't do well, she was still going to do her best job possible. And I think that's a big piece that women, they do look for. They look for that camaraderie. They look for that feeling of acceptance and security in taking the chance and knowing that they're going to be okay if it doesn't work out. But it very well might work out and they're going to be great at it. So I think that's a big piece that we can play in that process. Thank you. Wenying, you're working with young people every day. Give a sure perspective. A lot of young people as well as myself. I think failure, the word failure is scary. And I think we're living in a culture where failure is avoided. And we forget that failure is a learning passage. You can't learn from, you can learn by watching others and by being successful. You have to learn from making mistakes. And that's something that our students face every day is do you take chances? Do you go overseas to learn about culture that you know nothing about? Taking risks. So for myself, I look younger than my real age. It's like, you know, growing up in the 1670s, I learned to say no. My favorite word is no. Don't tell me what to do and don't tell me how to live and don't power over me. And it takes a lot of time for me to realize I got to learn the power to say yes. And to learn the power to assume authority to make things happen. So stop complaining. Do something about it. All right. Pam, give me your perspective. Confidence. How do you see it with women? And how about for yourself? Well, you know, longevity is the secret of my success. But in my 30s, I was asked by a group of professionals to be the lobbyists for child abuse and neglect. We had a real crisis here and I didn't know a thing about it but I didn't want to let anybody, you know that old, I didn't want to let anybody down. So I was so passionate I didn't know that I didn't know anything and I just went about my business and did it. And there was nobody else to give me a grade. I mean, because nobody else was really involved. And, you know, that was the best thing that ever happened to me because I didn't know any better and I had no role model. I mean, absolutely none. So when you have nobody to confide in and nobody to tell you what to do, you just do whatever there is to do. And maybe that's a secret that is, you know, a good one to know because whatever you do, you just do your best. And how can you improve on that? That's it. There's a phrase that comes to mind and as we were talking, it came to mind. Is no one learns to walk by being carried? So, you know, the falling is a part of the learning. If you're carried all the time, you don't fall but you also don't learn, you don't get strong. So, you know, sometimes with our daughters, our granddaughters, our coworkers, we have to let them fall and that's okay. That's learning. It's not failure. So, I think about, we see this every year with Tedx Jacksonville, whenever we put out the call for speaker applications, and I've talked to many of you in the room about this, women tend not to apply. We have more male speakers than we do female speakers and it's not that we don't have a qualified pool of women, it's just the women themselves don't see value in their message. And that always amazes me because these are the leaders of this community and it's kind of frightening. Like, if you don't see it, then how am I supposed to see you as a mentor because you're certainly now feeling shy about it and that always baffles me. I don't know why that confidence isn't protected internally because they definitely are doing great work externally in the community. So, I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit. Yeah. You're getting ready to assume the leadership of an organization at a very young age. Tell, how are you feeling about confidence right now? Thank you. I'm feeling confident in you, but perhaps you could be a little vulnerable with this group. No, it's scary and it's exciting. It's humbling to be given that opportunity. It's humbling to be receiving of the trust that that board has in need to execute, but it's definitely scary. Mega says this all the time. She would rather have communications over email than in person because the age comes up and it's like, wait, how old are you? And that still happens. People ask if I just got out of college and I think the work speaks for itself and that's what I hope will be the message I carry with the Nonprofit Alliance for Florida to show that they know that I'm coming with experience. It's not age is just a number and even if it's a lower number than what they're used to, it's still going to be a good work product and the board is fantastic. They have a great amount of trust and faith in me and that is really reassuring because they will be there every step of the way at least in the beginning and I think that will speak volumes for the rest of the community as well. And you're going to do a great job. Yes. Thank you. So, yes she is. So Donna, let's link sports into this conversation. Lots of studies and individual and I know you speak a lot about what sports do for women, what it did for you personally. Talk a little bit about sports and confidence. Actually, I'd be happy to do that. And it's funny, I'm just back as these guys know, I was in Dallas last night and that is exactly what the topic of the conversation was. I didn't know that. No, you did it because we didn't even talk about it. But there was a tremendous amount of data behind what sports does in general for anybody who participates and the importance for women in particular who we have lagged. Paul, is that for me? No, I thought maybe it was. In particular, what sports does for women in terms of their sense of self, right? You have a sense that you are physically strong, the sense that you have the ability to focus, the things that you learn about competing and winning. Now, if I could, because my microphone's now on, you can turn it off at any time. This whole thing about confidence is so interesting because first of all some of the data shows a man can have one thing. He doesn't even need six to say I can do this. So, or not, or not. It really does not matter. So what is it about the greater socialization? What are the messages to us as young women and older women that allows us to either express our confidence? And so a lot of it has to be one, women are perfectionists, by and large. We have to do everything perfect. Well, that is the enemy of good. If you have to do everything perfect, just think about the barriers we put in front of ourselves to have to achieve. We need 10 plus to do something. And then let's flip it on the other side. So we think we have to be perfect. We think we have to have confidence. But if we are bold in our confidence, if we make that statement, I am really strong. I am really good. Well, working with in male companies my whole life, how do you think they perceive me when I say that? Right? So there's this counter force that discourages our confidence because we're not encouraged to express it in a way that it could be heard. Sports is a way that you are encouraged to be heard. You are fierce. You are ferocious. You're a fighter. You can sweat. You can get dirty. You can build relationships. And those kinds of things are just so valuable because it really truly is what makes great corporate citizens. And we're taught to play nice. Exactly. Yeah, we can't play nice, right? Got it. Throwing. Play nice. To throw like a girl. Really? That has to be the greatest compliment on the planet. You throw like a girl. Yes, and what's your problem? So I've been interested in following up on the path you started down, winning, which is failure and how afraid we are to fail and what we learn from failure. Sometimes that's hard to think about. Failure is never an enjoyable experience, but of course, as you get older, you all find this out. You really do learn an awful lot from it. Anybody willing to share a failure that really was a powerful impact on their life? I'll share one. You know, I'm never lost. It occurred to me, or for me, in a job that I held after completing college, completing graduate school, getting a divorce, being in Boston. And I lost my job. The company was changing. I didn't fit the change. And I had a son who was seven years old. So it was like, okay, here we go. I got to figure this out because I have a kid depending on me. And I called my father and I said, Dad, I have a severance package, but I don't know how long it's going to last. I may need to come back home with my son. And he said, you can't. And I'm very close to my dad. So to hear him say, you can't come home, it was like, what? But what he said is two adults who don't live it, who don't sleep in the same bed, don't need to live in the same house. Guess what? I found a job. I found a better job. It ended up moving me from the northeast back to the Midwest. I found a husband and left again. So, I mean, you know, failure is about finding inner strength and making a change and not letting it defeat you. But figuring out, okay, I didn't do that well, but there's something else that I can do. And so, I just don't think that we can be defeated by that. But the other thing that I think is that we have to support one another in our times of failure to say, it's okay, it's not the end of the world. You can pick yourself up and figure out where you want to go. Thank you, Madeleine. Well, I was serving as Vice President of a national organization called Study Society for the Study of Mathiasic Literature. And I moved on from the Vice President to the President's position. Really, at the moment, the organization was transforming itself, trying to gain more international visibility, establishing chapters in India, in Germany. And I was going for shiny, bright things, you know, sort of glossy things. By going after Oxford University Press for a journal to publish our journal, and it was a mistake to move the organization too fast to that level. And I recognized that mistake and just in time to pull out of that deal. So change direction went to John Hopkins, and today the journal is in a very good position. So I learned a lot by, you know, timing the moments for the organization to move up to a different realm of success. Timing a very, very important thing to think about as we move through our careers. Pam? My failures, which have been quite a few, were different because I didn't lose a job. Obviously I'm a full-time volunteer, but I spent a lot of time in politics, working on behalf of children and trying to get budget items through. And time after time after time, it didn't come through. And I felt rather personally involved and responsible. And particularly because I was speaking for professionals who were really counting on me, I don't know why, but they were counting on me to bring home the budget items that they so desperately needed. I think just because I had this fire in me, I kept on going and I never let it get me down. I probably should have, but then again, who else was going to do it? And I've been in that position a lot in my life. Who else is going to do it? So I'm counting on all of you to get politically active. And I really think that's been the secret to me at least. It's kept my confidence and my spirit going that I just had to keep trying. So eventually, the moon and the stars align and something wonderful happens. But those dry periods are failure. And you used them as a motivator instead of as something to absolutely pull you to quit. I have a personal one, not necessarily a professional one. I was in a relationship for seven years and engaged. And when I decided to pull the plug on that, there was a lot of backlash from friends, family, because that's an identity that they were more connected with than my identity individually. And that was really, I feel like the formulation of who I am today because I found my confidence and knew that if I didn't speak up from my behalf before they were talking about me and gossiping, then I'm letting other people dictate my identity and that's not okay. So that really was a source of confidence and it allowed me to establish, no, you know, these are the things that I'm capable of and that one piece of my life didn't identify who I was and in the ways that it did it was actually not correct. And I took charge of my future and really kind of put out what I wanted to be perceived at and that was a really great moment to just kind of wake up and go, like you actually do have control of that and you have the power to shape it. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. You're welcome. Anybody else? I was just kind of thinking about the smaller failures. So those day-to-day oopsies or they're maybe not make or break but you still feel like you didn't get it right 100%, that perfectionist piece and how it's so important to sit in those moments and be like, ooh, that wasn't exactly what I wanted. How could I have done that better? What led me to that piece? Where did I lose focus or if you didn't lose focus what were the outside factors? I think it's just that's where I try and as a young professional there's lots of those oopsies. You'll learn through it and you surround yourself with people who can keep you honest and let you know when you're making those little mistakes that you can be better and that's, I think, for me what's really important and hopefully will keep me from making some of those bigger mistakes is when you can really sit and marinate in your smaller ones. So at the beginning of your career how important is feedback from the people that you're working with when there is a failure whether it's small or large? Crucial and it's hard. I'm not going to say I'm like yeah give me all that negative constructive feedback but it's really, really important and I hope there's a lot of folks in the room that I know and I hope feel comfortable and able to give me that feedback. I think as a young professional who is very eager there's also a bit of a you're awesome that comes with that and we were saying this at dinner the other night I think it's really important that we aren't those of us that are really involved and look to be more involved that we aren't put on that pedestal and we're really still told how we can be better and we're told when we're not doing it 100% right and we're not given the past because we're young that we're really nurtured to be even better. Melissa makes all these good points but I think that we as women have to be honest with one another too. Honest in our praise but also honest when we see someone going the wrong way or what we perceive to be the wrong way or taking an action that might not be the most appropriate action to let them know that not just sugar coated and talk about how wonderful they are all the time but to say have you thought about this? What are the consequences of that going to be? Not to say that they shouldn't do it but at least being honest and open and sharing our faults and failures with them so that younger women can benefit from what we've gone through. You know so often we just aren't honest with one another. Oh yeah you're pretty you know. Well sometimes it's not pretty. You know you don't have to be pretty. Sometimes you have broccoli in your teeth. Yeah or sometimes you know you didn't speak up and give your ideas. You let that guy take the idea from you. That was your idea. You may have shared it with him but next time you can bring that up or converse maybe you need to sit and listen sometimes instead of always talking. So yeah. Sharing, sharing stories of perhaps when things didn't go exactly as we hoped. Now Don I know you've got something on that. Well no I just as I'm listening and I'm just listening to the threads just seeing how they're woven together and you talked about confidence and then you talk about failure but you mentioned a really important word and that's risk right? Because I choose my mother's sitting here. I don't know if she'll agree with me because she has seen me my whole life. I choose not to think about failure as a destination. So even in launching Generation W I remember thinking I am prepared to fail but that's not an option. So it wasn't a scary thing. It was kind of like a motivating thing but then it's really talking about risk and as women if you're not confident you're not prepared to take risks and in the entrepreneurial world we live in now right? And you have to go out and say I am good I need to raise capital I have a good idea all those things require this confidence but if you're afraid to fail as if failure is a bad thing it's not a bad thing. Failure is a stepping stone to growth and if we approach it that way then we're not like we're not treading water all the time we're actually leaping and I think that's just so really really important. I failed. No actually you did something really great if you don't put an idea out there then you never know if you're going to sink or swim with it and I think to your point Madeline we owe each other the best of our hearts and minds to provide whatever good advice and counsel we have but at the end of the day if this is where you're going to go we're going to go for it right? Absolutely. You know how many times as a friend of mine said Donna this will never happen remember my friend said that this will never happen but if it could you probably could make it happen So let's build on that women in communication you've mentioned you said a couple really I think important things as we've been talking this afternoon a woman saying I am good I've got this great idea of the confidence the ability to present confidently the ability to communicate effectively and there's unfortunately in women's communication patterns many many times starting a sentence with I'm sorry but the apologizing factor the idea that I hate to interrupt but or this might not be the best idea but or you know I really hate to bother you but let's talk a little bit about women and communication and that apology factor how many of us find ourselves in that how do you get past that and tools for communication that is effective and strong but doesn't cross over to the B word right? When I was teaching trial advocacy I used to tell the young women lawyers listen there is a very very fine line but between being a strong advocate for your case and being a bitch and once you cross over to the bitch the jury's going to stop listening to you they're going to stop listening to you is that fair? No I would say no but is it a reality? Yes Yes I think so too I think so too so let's talk about women and communication effective communication and and getting rid of the apology and I saw you nodding when I was saying apology so why don't you start Melissa? Yeah I this is I think that there's a couple different threads there's also just the word but and I think we do this in a lot of styles of communication when we're talking to our partners our family our friends that need to counter to and there's that I'm sorry because we're countering what you're saying and so it's just that acceptance of saying something different and being okay with the fact that you you're expressing a different view than what somebody else is saying and with women I think it's it's really important that we're not always starting with I think I feel that we're just confident and we're making the statement whole for what it is when you start off with I'm sorry but or anything and but and you feel like you're having to counter you're not completely just giving space to your own individual thought that you don't have to apologize that it's not just a counter thought it's a different thought and it's a good thought and it's worthy to just live on its own I think I think I'm sorry right I'm sorry I'm sorry but and it's it is okay to think I think it's I it's it's there it's there in every statement it's but it's important to I think to have that confidence piece I think I'm not I'm just going to get lost in this moment which is okay too but but but the ROI numbers that Audrey gave us the ROI all that benefit are because you're sitting at the table saying I think there are other people talking who have other patterns who contribute in another way we should not try to like legislate the way we think and feel and communicate but we should be aware right that we don't have to apologize so it reminds me of a story where I had this a woman that worked for me and she came in and she wanted to get a raise and she sat down and she said I'm really the first thing she said was she was really sorry she was overly apologetic you know I'm not sure if I should be and I looked at her and I said let me just start this right out I know that you're going to come here and ask me for money you should never ever apologize apologize ever for asking for a raise for trying to justify that the work you do I may not agree with your request I reserve that right but just taken at that moment I chose to give her a mentoring lesson because it was so troubling to me because if it wasn't me and she went into a colleague of mine she would have gotten nowhere right so the difference is I don't want her not to feel I don't want her not to be the person she is but I do want her to be own who she is right so there's a distinction there but how we communicate that is I think where we very much so very much so it's like you know we we don't want to take on those qualities of the other gender that are not positive qualities to the point where we're negating who we are and I was in a situation once where a woman said well all that nursing stuff you know it's no big deal and this was someone who had an opportunity to empathize with the women who were in child rearing and childbearing stages of their lives and she negated it and so I think there's a balancing act there where we don't want to say you know well it's we negate the fact that we are women and and we negate those positive things that we bring to the table like the feeling and the empathy and those things exactly you know are we negate the fact that young women are struggling to be a mom and to work and to be you know a spouse and all of those things with that added pressure but that we we can comfort and tutor and mentor and help them as opposed to negating that that's a valid feeling also I think you know young women have not been you know conditioned to demonstrate their successes you know we we tend we we we are very often taken for granted by family members by our by our friend circles that goes into our workplace where we don't demonstrate our success we we we act and we think people see it and people recognize it so and like your male colleagues who took their horns without hesitation frequently I think women women tend to sort of you know do the solid work the detailed work and hoping to be recognized so I think that is also a communication issue for for a lot of women I think that's right Sabine I've been thinking about this while all of you've been chatting so my nickname for with Tedx Jacksonville and Tiffany this is Velvet Hammer because I do I'm very direct about what needs to be done but I make sure there is always a please and thank you and very little fluff because I think we are so conscious of making sure everybody's feelings are okay and everyone's happy and encouraged and you know it's kind of we're all there for the mission and the vision of the organization and that passion brings us all together and everybody's an adult so I've never felt like I need to add lots of flowy beautiful language to make the case I think everybody knows why we're doing what we're doing so I can't understand that piece but I do completely understand it from a cultural perspective because in my parents' household or my in-laws' household I am just to be none of the other stuff matters and and there you are I have to be very careful of how I'm saying what I'm saying because I don't want to offend them but there is a cultural discourse that's a tougher piece to navigate and there that I think and I'm sorry and the but does come in all the time Pam I I'm thinking about the word nurturing when Sabine is talking people who know you know that you are someone who really nurtures your friends and cares for them in a very real tangible way talk about the balance of a nurturer who I think you are at heart but also a very strong advocate and a person who knows her own mind and knows what she wants to make happen talk about the pieces of the puzzle between nurturing and strength you know I in all these years have developed a really pretty good sense of humor about myself and I can just about go any way and it's of interesting it's an interesting balance so I can nurture but I have a way in a meeting setting where I'm the only woman and I try and lighten the load a little bit I also have a better sense of timing I'm not sure if you wanted this but there are still times when we're in meetings and we're the only women would you say all of you it's very interesting and my sense of timing is I'm a problem solver I love solving a problem so before we've even gotten there I've thought about it all and I think I have an idea but I'm not going to get my idea on the table until way into the conversation because it only happened last week I forgot my timing and someone else after I said my suggestion said it later on the chairman said that's a great idea was it a woman or a man yeah what do you think I was the only woman in the room but back to the nurturing part I love I think what maybe we've all missed or maybe most of you have had it and I haven't had it so much until very lately but you need to be able to find a group of women that you can hang out with have a glass of wine have a really good laugh and there are people that feel very much very much the way you do about issues but on the other hand they're willing to let their hair down have a good time and it's so refreshing to have those the trust of all of those women and some of them are in the audience some of them are right up here but it has been a wonderful revelation to me and I hope that many of you can enjoy the same thing because that is nurturing and you know the other aspect you do what you got to do and that's right that's right a friend just gave me a notepad that said but what if I can't find my big girl pants isn't that just great isn't that just great but we do we do what we've got to do before I leave you Pam I'm sitting here thinking about the power of M&Ms oh yeah talk about the power of M&Ms well you know I had this job that paid a dollar a year for 12 years and Audrey and I landed in this job together and I made more than a dollar a year yeah thank god and once again I hardly knew why I was there what I was supposed to do little did I know Audrey didn't either but you could never tell so I took to bringing in food and well that's nurturing and pretty soon I got to be sort of famous for it it was quite wonderful but what happened was that people came to visit to get my food and so I knew what was going on in many aspects of the building which I could then impart to my boss the mayor and it was it was a fascinating I mean everybody really I don't know how I got onto it to tell you the honest truth but the second iteration of the food I mean the food was sort of donuts and sweet stuff and breakfast stuff and whatever else but I had three bowls of M&Ms in my little cubicle and because there was a call for peanut M&Ms and regular M&Ms and whatever the other kind was so I had these bowls and literally employees of the city of Jacksonville would come for miles away and sit down and not only the employees but the people that were covering the news they all knew about my M&Ms so they'd sit down and we'd have these wonderful conversations which has led me to you know as the bearer of good tides to have the benefit of the newsroom in most places but it's just a fascinating situation and I hardly had to say a word I just listened it was great everybody told me everything and then I repeated it it was really weird it's really true that's why it pays to hang out with three-year-olds the same thing that works with three-year-olds works with adult men that's your human resources background yeah that's what's coming up there so let's talk a little bit about when you feel like you've hit a roadblock this is a little different than failure but career or volunteer work or families rocking along things are going well but you know you don't feel like you're growing or moving you don't see what the next path is the next thing is you're feeling kind of stuck where you are not that things are bad but you're feeling stuck I'd like you all to share if you've had that experience number one and number two some tools for getting out of that feeling of being stymied or feeling of being stuck maybe a chance to say here's something I tried that worked or maybe something that didn't work and Donna we'll start with you on that one is there something about my stuckness that you know that I don't you are the most unstuck person I know I well you know that's actually a great way for me to say I actually there are times I actually feel stuck so there's two ways to feel stuck one is if you're working on a concept or idea and you just and you say okay I really know there's something here and I can't move beyond it what is it what am I not seeing and then there's the one about your whole personhood which is kind of like where am I going I know that I'm going lots of places do I need to go that many places are these the right road is there a place I should narrow down that's better for me and actually I find the processes for both related so the first one I try to do you're gonna laugh because I just try to breathe a little bit and I'm not a yoga person it's not that but it's just all right let me where am I really what is really going on let me see if I could put it on some note cards and divide it up and see it clearly the second thing is I call up some friends ones who I really really can trust because that is that is the most defining difference because who spoke about oh you said you gotta you need truth tellers in your life so if I if I could give any piece of advice for nomad doesn't matter where you are in your life be able to identify your truth teller who can you sit in a room where you feel not threatened you feel safe but you know that they're going to be able to tell you the truth I think that's the most important advocate you can have people talk about having personal boards of directors or whatever and also know that there's different truth tellers for different things in your life right there's people who are going to be able to tell you about your love or romantic life are going to be different they're ones who are going to be be able to assess you in your business or professional life and then there's my mother who will be sitting there right now telling me you do not have enough lipstick on where is there where is that for you okay good so I mean those are kind of that's how I approach it and I do it and I'm glad to say that there are people on the stage who would do that for me and it's very precious precious precious time right because one I'm just like everyone else I hate to ask I know my mother says if you don't ask you don't get mom you're right but I don't want to ask so you feel like oh my gosh guilty for even asking and then when your friend gives it to you so selflessly it's it's the most beautiful of connections it really is defining moments of life honestly absolutely absolutely Sabine any advice for feeling stuck or stymied or not sure where you're at yeah so two years ago when I left and moved to Cambodia to volunteer for six months I came back and I had no idea what I was supposed to do and a lot of people in my life were kind of like you should not be leaving the country you have a lot of great things going and exactly what you said Donna you're going places what does that mean I mean as a young professional you hear that all the time and you're constantly trying to map out your life and I would say just stop it never goes according to that map there's really no point because you're stressing yourself out about it and I think really seeking just great conversations from my WGA mentor is here Crystal along with a lot of the women on this panel but really just having general conversations of what others are doing why they're doing what they're doing and what is their passion point which helped me discover my passion pieces and just forget the roadmap that I was looking for because there's no tangible answer for everything and it's just important to go with the flow and trust yourself I think that confidence piece is the biggest link that we forget about Wen Yan well I'll talk about being stuck in a different sense is as a leader you know you have projects you have you have a vision you want to move the organization in a certain way and sometimes your team is not with you so to lead and to be followed are two different things so you you know in my world it's a good point yeah in my world of course you know the higher education setting very different from corporate organizations where faculty are co-managers where we have what we call shared governance so I was stuck with a few projects which I believe in which I think will be great for the institution however there isn't a shared belief so the challenge is to how to shift the ownership from my project to their project right to the team so when you are leading a team of over 200 people how do you identify champions for your vision and shift the ownership and that's what I have done at Ju is to you know general education reform which is a huge huge task since we didn't touch the general education since 1996 a lot of resistance but eventually there were faculty leaders emerging from the process who believed in new directions and the ownership was shifted and then became a successful project so that being stuck in a different sense of moving out of that environment thank you all right I want to make sure we leave enough time for your questions but so I'm going to ask a final question of the panel and then we'll go to the group I want you to think of one word one word that describes how you see the landscape for the future of women in leadership in Jacksonville one word as you look to the future for women in leadership in Jacksonville what would that word be promising I'm not lying growth kind of like congruence want congruence I want two words that's okay camaraderie passion hopeful thank you let's give them a hand and I know you have questions for this amazing panel so please stand up I believe we have mics available because we want the whole group to hear and we are taping so we've got a little hard for me to see in the back Mike is coming to you there we go hello hi my name is Karen can you hear me all right we can I have a tendency to bump into lots of women who lack confidence and they tell me about they were shushed as children and the like perhaps because I was raised with just boys I ended up kind of being like a boy in a way as a kid because that was a way to survive so I didn't end up getting shushed however as I and I've never been really perfectionistic either and I wondered about that perfectionism and do you all ever just tend to use what I call the 80-20 rule in life where you just sort of know what's really really really important to be dead on with and then there's other things like sweeping the kitchen floor and if you don't get all the dog hairs it's okay I mean I'm I'm just wondering how do you how do you in a ten minute conversation with a person who really is down in the dumps with their life and seems stuck and can't move forward how do we as women encourage those type people I have a friend a dear friend of mine developed a mantra and it's simply vision process guts and composure and I added the hand movements just because it's dance but for me that's it's about having that vision if you're looking to solve a problem where you're feeling stuck or kind of on that same notion creating the vision for what you want developing a process to get it done having the guts to go do it and composure through the process because it might not work it might work great but just having that composure and so vision process guts and composure and being able to identify what what those four words mean for you they might look differently than what I just said there and but I think that's that's what I would if I was having that conversation with a woman who who felt down or felt stuck it would be looking to to help her through those four words through that process and be able to try and identify a way to to feel lifted up and be able to start going through that I think it's also about being honest about the resources and help we all have in our lives I think all of us are not at all trying to say that we're perfectionists or have perfect lives I think there's a constant juggle daily whether it's you're cooking a healthy meal or picking up the dry cleaning and then managing laundry and etc and having a day job and volunteering and sometimes things don't get done and that's okay but other times you ask for help or you hire help but there's nothing wrong with any of those situations I don't think one person can do all of those things in one day and do them all a hundred percent that's just not feasible or you put it all or you put it all so it didn't you know and the other thing is you know often people look at the finished product and they haven't seen the journey to get there and they think that it was just a straight line you started here you made a plan and you ended up there it never is you know and I think sometimes we have to peel away the onion and be honest with people about some of the failures that we've experienced and then helping people to understand if you do nothing nothing's going to change if you do something there'll be a change sometimes it's going to be a good change sometimes it's going to be a bad change but you can start over again but but I think really helping people see that what they see today was a it's a journey it's not you know where you it's just you didn't just arrive there you know I had the the car there that that threw oil every day and you know I was buying 25 cents worth of oil or you know you had the car that was repossessed because you couldn't afford you know you've got to share some of those failures because people look at you at the end results and they think oh nothing bad happened to you and sometimes we just have to say yeah there were you got another one right here hi my name is Sarah Bermudas and I run a company here in Jacksonville and I actually manage mostly women and I'm really interested on your thoughts on the balance between motivating and keeping people accountable but then it's a two-part question how do you protect your perspective and your own motivation okay all right Donny you want to start with that one? I yeah I would if I I want to understand a little bit more you're a little oblique around this so I'm not I know there's a core nugget here give us give us what this is well I think in leadership especially for women we're so nurturing and some things come very easy to us just because of our DNA right so you know being the cheerleader being the motivator getting the best out of people sometimes might be the easy thing to do but holding people accountable which is sometimes more difficult because it's holding them to what was the expectation of what they were going to bring to the table sometimes it's a little harder so what I'm here you're saying is you as you look as a manager you see them as two different things right if I if I'm I could be a motivator but in my motivation I'm not going to hold people accountable or if I'm holding them accountable then somehow they're going to experience me as a top-down manager and they're going to get mad at me yeah how do you hold them accountable while being motivating so the challenge really is is you want to be a an accountable motivator or a motivator who holds people accountable right and that so what you want to do is you want to be able to institute the kind of tactics and communication that says listen we are all for one and one for all but what's going to create that motivation is the fact that in that cheerleading piece is an accountability it doesn't come free right it comes because we are all going to perform with and for each other and that should not be seen as you being an overlord and some of that you have to question right where's that coming from me I don't really want to tell them what to do they might not like me which is also a very female thing right so you got to move through that piece to be able to say okay listen let's all just sit down what are our goals how are we going to get there how are we going to support ourselves to get there and here's the best question when one of us doesn't do what needs to get done how are we going to hold each other accountable do you understand yeah that's great so if you can integrate all of that then you don't have you're going to alleviate those worries but you're going to work closer with your team to do that my team's here so I hope they think I do that with them now would not be a good time to say that I don't and doesn't that also come back to the honesty piece you were talking about Madeleine so if if you are the person who's always praising even when it's not deserved your praise becomes weak right because people got she always says that right right meaningless that's right one of my inspirations is Dag Hammersgold who was the second secretary general of the united nations happens to be a man but once he said that your position doesn't give you the right to command your position only imposes upon you the way you live your life so that you can gave orders without humiliating others so that says a lot about leadership you know it's particularly for women it's how to be caring without being vulnerable how to build confidence without tearing down others and and how to live your life so that you can hold other people accountable as well so we got to hold ourselves accountable you know how to hold so the whole thing you know caring accountability motivation and also handle authority and respect authority in a way that can be respected by others there's a phrase that I hate and people use it they say oh I'm just brutally honest and I say either you're brutal or you're honest but you can't be brutally honest because being honest with someone is compassionate and it's caring about that person so much that you want them to be better through your honesty if you're brutal you're just tearing somebody down so you know if that helps at all yes good afternoon my name is Leanne thank you for the discussion today it's been really good I did want to ask a question and make a quick comment somewhere around the confidence discussion earlier in the panel one of the things I remind myself very often because human spirit right is that the definition of courage in spite of not knowing all of the outcomes is moving forward even in the midst of when you're unsure so I often have that conversation with myself question though is this I want to know if anybody on the panel has had this experience because this happened to me recently I believe we're all mind body and spirit and I came to a decision process in my spirit knew the decision that should be made and I talked myself out of it and so I knew what was the right thing to do and let other circumstances talk me out of it great learning lesson able to rebound but I just wondered if one of you had an experience like that where you would share that as well too but why did you let yourself talk yourself out of your spirit's decision well that's a very good question that kept me up at night thank you and it's a much more in-depth answer over a glass of wine Donna and I'm happy to do that but I will I will give you I will give you the brief answer somebody who I respected I deferred to them and I did go back to that person and say later I knew that I should have done this so I you know I let my deference to their respect drive that rather than listening to myself which I think I would definitely do different the next time that happens all the time doesn't it Audrey you haven't answered one question maybe you should answer this one for her she's even got one on the sofa do you know how she thinks she's leading the panel no my microphone is still shifting ownership she's shifting ownership and I'm not letting her winning anybody got an example Leigh Ann thanks for sharing that do you have one she has such good answers all the time I just thought my microphone I think you're right Donna I think there's lots and lots of experiences that we have where our gut may be telling us one thing or our spirit and then other things are at work but anybody have something I want to share and Matt no because we all know that it happens it does it happens a lot it happens a lot and I think maybe admitting it to ourselves and to others and going back to that person was probably a good way to close the loop right you know nobody's completely sure of themselves all the time a lot of it's faking it it will take like 15 more times for that to happen and the 51st time you'll trust you got that's right it just takes experience to do that honestly and to your point the woman who has the first question when you said that 80-20 rule I fundamentally believe each one of us has the right answer in us all the time it's just our willingness and our ability to access it and often we're not willing to do that you know what I mean so that's why you have friends because they can see it and they can help you access that point yes hi my name is Elizabeth Bernardo many of you are are hi Madeline are or have participated in raising strong girls to be strong women I have a 10-year-old daughter who by the way looks up to Madeline very much but since she's been for her feedback from her female teachers has been she needs to learn more respect for authority do you have advice how we now my husband and I politely said thank you and and walked away and said we're not gonna do anything about that but do you have advice for moms who are working to raise their strong girls to continue to be strong women as you've gone through that process I do don't do it and I have a story I'm a storyteller when I was in fourth grade I had a teacher Miss Lockwood I will never forget her she chastised me because she said that Arkansas was pronounced Arkansas and I stood up and said no my father's from Arkansas and it's Arkansas not Arkansas and she says it's Arkansas and she put me out of her class because I talked back and I'd never been put out of class before my father came up to the school the next day well first of all when I got home he told me that is her class and you will not ever do that again the next day he went to school and he said if you ever do that to her again there will be consequences and I think as an adult to an adult because we want our children to be respectful but that's a time when you go to that adult and you say don't ever do that to my child again and I think we have to advocate for our children I really think that but we have to teach our children to be respectful because they are going to be in situations where they have to learn to be respectful and they have to learn how to negotiate through those kinds of situations but I think we have to advocate for them and say you will not kill my child's spirit and that's what what she would they were doing was killing my girl's spirit they won't believe they can do it they sure didn't because she keeps keeps on keeping her head up high Audrey I think we have time for maybe one more question and I know we have several hands up so I think I saw your hand up first and then yep quick question for this may be an ideal question to end with politics it's always a good time for politics when I was in graduate school it was the first time I was going to school in DC and it was the first time I understood politics and then when I went into corporate life I realized how difficult it was for me personally to deal with politics which I define as the importance of somebody's personal interests over the many interests at heart and I'd just like to get a little perspective from the panelists since I'm sure there are some that have had to deal with politics I haven't so Pam, Pam's a big political well Audrey would you be willing to talk about it too because I mean you have had a great deal of well I would say experience working working in politics and we'd love to hear from you I've lost control finally I'll just admit it to you I've lost control finally the politics is everywhere whether you are at an institution of higher education or leading a congregation or leading a company or leading a non-profit or chairman of the board of an organization politics is everywhere and when one person wants it to be about them being able to navigate as you talked about Wenying being able to navigate effectively that the interest of the whole the interest of the organization the interest of the community are what's front and center rather than the interest of the individual is an art more than a science but something that we all have to keep plugging away at and something I think the best illustration of why we need more women in leadership roles because women always make sure it is about the mission and the goal and not about themselves let's thank this panel well that was certainly an extraordinary experience and I know that we are just so thankful for you sharing your time your experience pouring into us and again heartfelt thanks for that for doing that and Audrey wonderful job as our moderator not that yeah please okay something we we have a really appreciate your input there are a survey that's been passed out and only four questions and if you'd be so kind to fill that out for us we do use those we use those to create events for the future and we definitely want to be meeting the needs your needs and so we'd like to hear from you we've had a record number of attendees today and we definitely value your feedback there's also information in the back that shares more about the women's giving alliance and membership and of course if you have we guys have any time to stay a little bit after some of you okay I know we didn't get to some of the questions so now we do have another event it is Thursday May 19th at the Jacksonville University at the River House Pub where we will learn more about the St. John's Riverkeeper and an important role the river and its health plays in our community and there's also my partner over there is pointing out we also have the articles from the women's giving alliance have been passed out as well thank you ladies and gentlemen and we hope to see you again in the soon