 about asset tokenization in the finance industry and then I want to tell you my video off because I'm using my computer and my phone because my computer doesn't have a very good kind of the camera so now one thing is that so let me quickly bring down here so I can see my whole screen and let me quickly see where we okay so basically today what I'm going to talk about is what is asset tokenization means and then how you can use that in the blockchain using the blockchain technology and then what's the role of asset tokenization is the finance industry so this presentation is by DC web makers and we offer some blockchain consulting development and DC web makers so now so this is the outline so for those of you who are following this there's a link in the meetup where you can click on that you can get that you know the PowerPoint presentations that I'm presenting right now for the PowerPoint deck of this and you can just follow what I'm talking so basically this is the outline of the topic that you're talking today I want to talk about what is a tokenization is and I want to a little bit talk about some terminologies like ICO and initial coin offering versus security token offering and then what is a legal you know framework around that and then what are the benefit of tokenizations some of the examples some of the challenges what are the use cases in finance and then what are the adoptions going on and the resources so I know that this is for a hyperledger group I mean this is a hyperledger community at the same time my presentation today is platform agnostic meaning that you can apply whatever you're learning or taking away from this presentation using cerium for public blockchain development or you can use a hyperledger for a private one so these are the topics so and then again today discussion is more kind of the business oriented is related to the finance and business and then there's some kind of the integration to the technology so I'm not showing you any code or any development maybe after this we have another kind of the webinar where we shall focus only on hands on smart contract development so again about me I mean I've been in the tech industry for many years 15 or 20 years I have been in industry and then I have like tech companies I'm also author of the hyperledger fabric book and also I have been written a lot in the community on the blockchain you know articles and I have also background in business I have MBA also I have done a lot of programming since I was in high school so again you can add me LinkedIn if you want to connect after this kind of conference after this presentation if you have any questions so the first thing is that what's again the first things is that what is the tokenization right one of the things I want to mention is that by going through the this presentation I'm assuming you know what is the blockchain is how the blockchain works and if not at the end of this presentation I have a slide for resources so you can go to those resources and read some article that there are there regarding what is the blockchain is how blockchain works things like that so assuming that you know what blockchain is and how blockchain works we we need to find out we need to know what are the application what is one of the application one of the application of blockchain is tokenization so by tokenizations we we try to bridge the gap between the assets real board assets tangible intangible and they're trading storage and transfer in the digital world so let me simplify this what that means so so every one of you guys know that tangible assets can be something like a bike can be like a car something you can touch it can fit and again you can hold it so that's like a tangible asset right so in a real world there are some barriers to tangible assets so barriers can be if you want to sell your bike you need to find someone who can afford to buy it right and then so there is a liquidity there is accessibility there are some barriers that you're going to discuss later it's like associated with some assets and then so the ability to to trade those assets in the digital world is where the blockchain comes to pictures so basically blockchain allows you to convert those real assets the ownership you transfer the ownership of those assets in a digital way without the person's actually owns that so when I buy the let's say that you're selling the bike and when I buy the bike from you the only way I can prove that I'm the owner of that bike is by holding that bike you know in my hand right however using like blockchain technology digital asset you may not hold the asset in your backyard you may not have the real asset you may have a certificate that shows your security or certificate that shows that you have either own all of the asset or portion of the asset so that's that's another difference so we talk we're going to talk more about that in the other slide so so basically tokenizations convert the value is storing the tangible and tangible object into a token that usually can be manipulated along this distributed ledger technology or blockchain system so one of the example of intangible object or intangible assets can be like like for example like a logo or you know in the bank industry you can sell your debt you know for example or some of the financial asset derivatives they can be deemed as intangible so tangible the one that you can hold your hand you can use something like real estate intangible like a logo or something that has intrinsic value and so basically the value of those asset or objects going to be manipulated so basically let's say that you have an asset that was one million dollar you're going to translate that value into the tokens or into the another distributed ledger technology where each portion of that asset I mean that asset value going to be divided into the different small pieces or token that someone can own it or buy it so and tokenization can be applied almost to any assets like again a real asset and then digital assets and and then to the transfer of the ownership and storage results center of service so that's another element I'm going to talk about this advantage of this tokenization is that it created mobility for the buyers and sellers to transact at a more efficient way without having going through the intermediates or paying the transaction costs at a faster rate and with the ability for the buyers to trade their token at the secondary market so asset tokenization as if you search it online asset tokenization is getting very popular right now the reason is very simple so many financial institutions out there so many companies have an asset that are not liquidable they are not movable so the so for example if you have heard the news after the crisis started so many commercial real estate around the United States are empty so no one you know no one rent those spaces their spaces are empty so that is an asset that's not liquid but you can easily you cannot you cannot just sell that you know commercial real estate so easy because it's so expensive so there are so much asset that just just just hanging around and they're not liquidable they are not movable so you can use asset tokenizations to give a partial ownership to different people and that way you mitigate the risk of the of the ownership and mitigate risk of the of that kind of the equity that they are your own so I'm going to talk about that risk later on so now asset organizations there are some key terminologies here so one of them is the security token offering STO and one of the things I want to mention in this presentation is very important this presentation is about giving you some informations and some kind of the overview of what is asset organization what are these key terminologies out there by no means I am recommending one versus another by no means I am expert in any legal aspect of asset tokenizations so again whatever country you are whatever you know platform you're using you have to consult this your kind of the legal team or your country for the actual implementations so security token offering STO is evolution in fundraising so I'm quite sure most of you guys are familiar with something called crowdfunding so crowdfunding allowed you know the founder or entrepreneurs raise fund through the micro financing right so different people put some money there and once like qkstarter.com is a good example once a certain amount of money is raised once the the founder is mid to threshold of financing then they're going to kick off the the startup they're going to start that business so why is evolution in fundraising because fundraising has been around I mean like crowdfunding has been around for a few years now using a you know security token offering or using this kind of blockchain you can automate the whole process and it makes things like using the smart card that can make it much more you know straightforward to the raising the fund and then giving the reward and if you attended my previous talk I was talking about how you can raise fund if you are author if you are if you are start a new book and you can raise fund people pay you to write your book and each persons who pays for your book can own a proportion of your book equity like of your book and the monster book is published and revenues is earned those people are going to receive the revenue from the main publishers and from the secondary market using the blockchain technology so coming back to security token offering um there are other mediums as you know the traditional kind of the medium for raising fund was angel investors venture capital uvc's initial public offering or ipo an initial coin offering ico so i see you on st are very close to each other however initial coin offering mostly was for cryptocurrency bitcoin things like that where whereas security tokens is is mostly offered for the for the other type of assets that they not not not not crypto assets and security tokens has more risk than initial coin offering because of the i'm going to talk about this because of the intrinsic value of the asset so um uh so basically as we as we discussed earlier um you give a token so basically um the reason is called security because you know that um you know that it's backed by an asset you know i mean so um represent the real tradable asset so you buy a token uh token for example someone put the artwork for sale you just buy a token of it and that token has his own value it indicates who is the owner what percentage of their ownership is and on what terms you can trade that asset and um and then security tokens are um like like equity like utilities or payment tokens are created through the ico or st and um so a little bit of the differences between ico and sto as i said the they have a they have overlapping there are some commonalities but there are some differences so an ico issue is either a coin cryptocurrency or utility token sto issues a security token um which is a digital stock certificate is different from the utility token and um the utility tokens is treated to be like a commodity like a gold uh there's a useful value but isn't used for security so again as i said one of the key differences is that ico has an intrinsic value the value in itself versus an sto is like um you're investing uh in something for example if you have been angel investors if you know about investing a startup you know that the startup meal may not go well right so you you have a leap of faith you have put some money there and you're hoping that your investment gonna return but in some cases your investment goes nowhere so it's the same as sto right um whereas in ico the asset has a less risk because you're buying cryptocurrency or something has a less risk compared to the sto now so um again that's the same things I was talking about right now the utility will come out of your currency associated so again that's elemental risk is another delicate difference between these two and um so and then that differences result in different offering process so i'm talking about offering process in another slide so there is a whole value chain or lifecycle for initiating sto from the a to z which I'm going to talk about this later so that's you understand that when you're doing the sto the lifecycle might be different than ico because of the asset that you're dealing with now as you know security again as I mentioned security are different than commodities for example equity securities represent the ownership of a company while commodities are items are useful of value but are not considered as a right ownership again that's another things that I was again I was talking earlier um you have to look at sto as investment of like structure of the company as investment of then equity and security can only be traded as a registered trading platform and participants of their trade securities are required to register the broker and dealers under the applicable security law so again as I said um and I'm going to discuss it later um so there are some um legal um you know umbrella or legal kind of the framework around issuing the securities trade them so there's all been regulated I mean again you have to look at your country to see what's regulation involved regarding issuing the securities and trading securities whether you can't trade that in the second market or if you are launching a program or you know um sto on a global scale you have to understand you have to follow the rules and regulation of different countries in which you are operating so as such um security is a tradable finance assets so again for for this the laws and legal definitions varies from country to country in some countries security includes equities and fixed income instrument in US um securities include debts securities such as commercial papers bonds and debentures and equity securities such as stocks or more kind of the exotic talks so derivatives forward futures options and swaps so um again um most of these terms you know the finance terms um but the bottom line is that you have to know you have to consult with the attorney to see what's the language what is the you know what is the kind of the type of the assets it's covered and under what kind of the circumstances you can offer them how we can trade them things like that so that makes sure you're you know complying with the regulator environment you're operating so now one thing is that um so just to recap so we know what is the tokenization is we know the difference between different kind of the fundraising mechanisms like ICO initial coin offering security token offering and versus the like traditional venture capital or IPO which I'm going to a little bit more talk about that when you're talking about value chain or life cycle of the sto in later on now we need to a little bit talk about what are the benefits of token organizations so why this slide is very important because if you are a consultant or if you're like you know working in a finance industry you need to convince traditional people usually people who are seasoned they get used to old fashion you know of running things which is to tell them that for example they spoke with a couple of guys and they they they didn't understand how how you can have an asset in your hand you know how that a certificate issued on a piece of kind of the computer can you know can can reflect the actual value of the asset so basically you'll have to explain to them why tokenization is good and how it works so if you're a consultant it's good to know about this full benefit of tokenizations so greater liquidity faster and cheaper transactions more transparency and more accessibility so let's a little bit dive into these benefits so it gives you more liquidity and that's the very obvious reason so basically if you have real estate property as what's one million dollars you know that it's very difficult to find you know someone who have you can afford that to buy that and so basically liquidity is one issue so so one thing and then plus so that's that's for something in some cases like fine art there might be something a suspense or there might be some cost involved to even value that value of assets right so so liquidity is one example that is for example if you if you're dealing with assets that are not liquidable in case tokenization to diversify the risk and allow multiple owners to come to pictures and then also the value of the secondary markets it minimizes the risk for the even you know multi-finance so again it has two values I just want to really give you a very simple example right so let's say that I only have $5,000 and I just want to invest that in real estate right so I buy maybe let's say that 20 tokens of the commercial real estate and then um I can trade that into the secondary market right so the value is that a I'm taking less risk because if something goes wrong I'm only losing 5,000 second second of all it gives more mobility and liquidity to the to the seller because it make it possible for him to sell that asset and third the third benefit would be for the buyer is that he would be able to sell that to the another person in the secondary market and he can use a small contract even to automate that for example he can say that look anyone who is willing to pay me $7,000 I'm willing to sell it so that condition can be enforced into the small contract and a small contract going to automatically enforce that into the you know the process of tokenization so so you just buy 5,000 of your asset put the condition for $7,000 for we sell it and then a small contract automatically going to trigger that for you when the when the customers when you when it finds the customers for your bet so a little benefit is the faster and cheaper transactions using a small contract same certain part of the exchange process is again as I was talking earlier a small contract can automate we can put some conditions there for for for triggering the selling we selling and buying and this automation is going to simplify the process make the process make the you know transaction between buyers and selling the buyers and sellers much easier faster and with cheaper transaction costs especially for international or global not to mention that you can also use the crypto currency for those transactions instead of using the you know traditional you know you know traditional banks for for processing transactions another benefit is that more transparency because any as you know the how the blockchain works is not immutable blockchains transactions are immutable meaning that once it's recorded it's just there no one can you know tamper with that so that's going to give you a more transparency with what's the previous owners things like that and that's also add some value to the to the process process tokenizations and of course more accessibility so for example I'm going to talk about SSPC is one of the bank that are working on tokenization I'm going to talk about this a little bit later it's like what they did or what they're doing basically they are tokenizing their debt so for example they have so many debt like 10 million dollar debts the customers that they own they owe them money like like a debt but they are liquidated that debt because the debt that they want to collect is has a low liquidity so they try to use the tokenization to liquidate the assets to find a secondary owner for them because for example as I said the visibility or availability to divide that the big down the whole asset into small pieces that is amazing that's how you can make this more accessible to them because for example if you're angel investors you have to have like this one million dollar to invest in something to be accredited right so but this using this mechanism is anyone can join and invest through the multi-finances now one of the things is that so there are so many examples of tokenizations but one of the things that's starting point is that you identify what are the assets because sometimes you don't know what asset you have or how this asset can be used so there are again the finance there are two major assets intangible and tangible assets finance and accounting and intangible one is like hard good fine art you know hard component and then finance real estate equities precious metal gold silver and then consumer with like farm of food and the intangible like trademark licenses royalties patents and copyright again one of the key element in all of this asset again I'm emphasizing and emphasizing is liquidity so if you have an asset that doesn't have a high value and you can easily liquidate that you may not you may not need tokenization so again the element of liquidity is very important to consider when you're consulting with your client so when it comes to the physical object and financial products again collectibles and devices like fine art and automobiles for example I'm talking about liquidity automobiles they talk about ferrari like some things that it's formula one car so some things that have a very unique customers so they have a very low liquidity so in any aspect the medical devices are talking about very specific unique medical device has very low liquidity so that's what I'm talking about here so fine art something is very special very high price so you have to look at the element of liquidity to better understand how to make the most of your tokenizations financial instruments the same things like a date of us talking certificate fixed income and equities and then consumers like other things like like coffee and then now in tangible asset again we talk about various rights trademarks licenses patents IPs you know royalties again look at the book industry music industry content producing you have a one videos that it's very is for example Hollywood movies that's very expensive you know but you can you know tokenize that that ownership and and then when it comes to the for example tokenization and talk about that this tokenization can also be happening for the payment options between the bank like central banks bank to bank in transactions and then using the like old-fashioned government fiat finance you know or using the cryptocurrency you know finance so that's another advantage of tokenization that transaction inside the tokenization can be tanked with using different kind of the currencies well so now that we know there's so much advantages or so much good things about tokenization so the question is what are the challenges so then the first and foremost challenge is that legal environment in most countries is still is catching up because blockchain is still the news evolving the city is catching up so maybe your country of jurisdiction is still there are figuring out what is the good legal framework around this so again that's that's a major challenge right now the other two challenges are where to register and issue your security token and what is the second can you have a secondary market is there any kind of the infrastructure for your secondary market in where you're operating so this is another kind of the challenges that you have to figure out now when I'm talking about infrastructure requirement for tokenizations so you have to look at the whole value chain or the whole life cycle of doing this kind of the security token right the very the very first step so this is very important if you are doing consulting or if you just want to put together a business plan or kind of the requirement document for tokenizations so you need to know all the steps involved from a to z right of tokenization because we are doing this for a couple of banks so you need to consult with them so first you need to identify what is the asset that you want to tokenize and then you have to justify if that asset is is an asset based on what I told in previous slide is the right asset for tokenize that does it have a low liquidity does it have those characteristics that I discussed earlier so identify what asset and then you have to come up with a very good plan for tokenize that meaning that okay how you want to create the token how many shares what his evaluation is blah blah blah and then who is who can buy that token as individuals it's going to be in business entities can buy that and what is the trading kind of the infrastructure for that and then once you issue that you know once you issue that kind of the tokens who is going to pay by whom and how is the whole clearing process going to take place and and then settlement that of the the transfer of ownership you know trading like buying selling and then if there is an additional like for example if there's a secondary market if there is a record that you want to keep offline you know on top of blockchains or is there any kind of the payment involved between the bank and the token because sometimes you only want to use the cryptocurrency inside that whole tokenization sometimes you want to use the third party banks to do the clearing houses for you so um so this value chain this whole process lifecycle of starting to setting the transaction and maintaining and then even creating the secondary markets need to be taken to considerations and one however one thing is that once you start looking at your country some of the sequence and steps might be changed or based on the asset that you're dealing with might be changed for example a fine art you need to do the valuation on fine art and the valuation need to be legitimate valuations evaluations so um that's one things that for example it might be different from real estate you know that might be a little bit different from real estate might be different from other asset that you're dealing with right so for example if you are selling the debt of the bank the valuation of that that is different from the fine art that requires some people to do the valuations right so um now um so financial institute and then token economy so now that we know about asset tokenizations about their benefit their challenges and they're kind of the whole you know value chain the question is how the financial institutions can benefit or how the financial institutions can implement asset tokenizations so if you are working in a bank right now or if you're in the finance if you are in a finance in a financial institute and wondering what are the steps or what are the things you need to put together in your kind of the you know requirement document or if your business proposal for asset tokenizations so there are five elements you have to take into considerations as again i'm telling you guys you are doing this for client we have a bunch of banks in your client so what we are doing you know we first talk about business models talks in business body we talk about like what type of asset you want to liquidate on what terms conditions you know what if what that platform what platform you want to use for for their that like operational part cyber security compliance and jurisdictions so again you can come back to this slide and read it but i'm just really for reviewing this so on the business models you have to know figure out how you want to structure your token and who is going to act as the keep safe keeper for your token when the token is issues right for example i want to give you example and it's very important example i'm telling you so when you let's say that fine arts right so when you are tokenizing the fine art and setting the tokens 200 people who is going to be in custody of the physical asset when the token are issued right so the buyers need to know or want to make sure that there is a good insurance company covering you know the asset physical asset make sure there's someone take care of that or if there is a commercial real estate that you buy it you want to make sure there is a good company take care of the building right and there's a security there's an insurance inbox so they so you have to have all of these parameters in the right place you just can just can just issue the token you have to make sure have a value of asset structure for token and then you have to identify who is going to be in charge of the the physical assets or you know who's going to be you know the back it you just want to manage or maintain the assets and um and then also you need to figure out um how you want to how you want to do the handle the transactions would you like to accept the cryptocurrency or you want to do the like bank from the bank means all this for example how you want to accept the transaction for payment and then um what platform you want to accept that tokenizations and um and then who is going to be the the custodian banks or paying the agents or creating the lives of people so all the factors that we discussed in previous value chain need to come to like life cycles so what happened someone buy that and then more barely the secondary market the environment so everything's like that I need to come together in a business model that you have for the asset you're dealing with so we just include all of these factors into your business model um platform integrations depending on the business model that you have you need to choose the platform like for operating or implementing your tokenization so would it be a high see um kind of the um using for the for the tokenizations um and then also integrations this is another very important aspects um that you have to also watch is that okay you build a tokenization platform but how you want to integrate that is your current SaaS or current bank system that you have you know and then um uh so and then you also need to look at um talking about regulation later on uh like uh you have to talk about what's your goal of tokenization you know how how that kind of the tokenization go hand in hand with the rest of the strategy that you have in your bank and how you want to outreach how you want to find the potential buyers you want to market that you know and how you want to maintain the community of the buyers right and um obviously even if you have a very uh excellent business model and then if you have even um you have excellent business models you have the excellent platform or old operation or considerations one thing you should not forget that cryptocurrency as I said before um so if you want to secure a bike or if you want to secure your car or a building you're going to hire the old-fashioned security guard right to lock the door put the camera you know things like that but when it comes to people who buy your asset on a piece of paper or certificate and on some kind of the code rather than the tokens uh what the question they're going to have is that how you can assure me that uh my certificate is not going to be tampered it's safe you know it's not going to steal it or you know I mean so the cyber security is a key uh component that need to be incorporated and then compliance with like anti-money laundering AML and know your customers KYC so they're making sure that for example um some countries uh allows the assets so when you're for example issue your asset organizations in your country there might be some restriction with regard to whom who can buy the asset right so you may run the AML and KYC on your customers or people who want to buy that token from you again depending on your country so um these are things that you have to comply and again if you're in the finance industry you understand how ticks works and the blocks is a very good example there are so many use cases for anti-money laundering and and by KYU using blockchain technology for tracing the custody of assets or tracing the the fund and then um jurisdictions is what legal uh kind of the frameworks uh like from countries countries from the city or maybe country to country uh you have to follow um whatever the law and requirement regarding to that tokenization is and then um so now we talk about asset organizations adoptions right just such as on non-hspc and then asset tokenization you're going to see that they are they're moving their dates they're selling some of their assets especially some of their dates into the tokenizations they'll be working on this for three or four years by now and Singapore Stock Exchange allowed the security token platforms you know JP Morgan offered the cryptocurrency now the things that some of the again top uh IPO this is this graph shows you top IPO, STO and its ICO kind of the kind of the fund raising that's happening in 2020 now um another this just again you can come back to this slide later on um it shows you the difference between IPO, STO and ICO from different uh I got this from the Ernest and Young website um it shows you differences between IPO, STO and ICO uh from different characteristics or different factors like risk cost for example risk as I said IPO has a less risk STO and ICO you know I mean uh from the like who is going to be issued issuers platform participation accepted fund and documentation requirement investor right you know controlling authority underlying and dividends and uh for example and then credibility you know so you can come back to this to compare just see the comparison between these three different medium for fund raisings and um so um so basically um these are some of the good articles and if you want to learn more about some of the security laws in the United States you can read some of this article and obviously um it'll give you some information and once you get serious if you want to implement that you need to discuss a consultant as an attorney to uh to hash out the details and to see if if there is anything that you need to uh to comply and uh it's a good article for initial coin offering this is uh you know uh the security token offering and then this book's um there's the book by Brian Wu and others security tokens and stablecoin um this is a great book and I read this book and then they have a very good coverage of uh security token offering inside the United States they have done some estate by state you know kind of the comparison uh estate by state coverage of the I mean I think they they did up to 2019 and then they talk about some of the challenges some of the stuff they talk about in this presentation they they go over that in more detail and um I think so I think that's it on my end so basically just to recap what we discussed maybe in one or two minutes uh in this presentation we talk about what is asset tokenization is what is the difference between ICO and STO and what are the benefit of tokenizations how we can leverage the tokenizations and then what are the value chain for you know security token you know issuing the security tokens and then what is um the process what is the things that the financial institution need to know or need to follow in order to issues their own security token now I see that there are a bunch of questions here let me quickly go back to the question here so um Barry I think I'm done here so I'm going to go over the questions yeah sounds good thank you um I don't see much actual question from the the message board so anyone you can feel free to if you can unmute I don't think you I you need to my host to unmute you you can ask question hi this is Tarek I have a question like you provided some examples of the tokenization in from the banks and different organizations I was wondering is there any use case which is in real life which is basically based on the ethereum or a public network yes so actually that's a good question so let me quickly go back to here um I was going to show you guys see if you can see my screen asset if you search in google assets tokenization with sirium standard erc dash 20 just just look at erc dash 20 use case just search sirium erc dash 20 use case you're going to find uh some examples that implemented the sirium so if you want to do the tokenization with sirium erc dash 20 it's very easy you can use that easily to tokenize their asset and then you're going to be use cases on that for two thank you one more question on the topic you are talking about the compliance and AML the general concept around blockchain is the anonymity as well right so how do they like they are two conflicting ideas right AML and know your customer or KYC basically you know you have to reveal your identity we are on the other end blockchain says okay you are anonymous excuse me so how do we handle these things that's that's good question so basically um one of the things is that one of the things is that um so one of the things is that again this is like chicken and egg rights so you can have so one thing is that it's like um so the bank want to make sure that so what one thing is that you can do I think that's going to be solutions here so one thing is is that as a bank you may do this due diligence before the persons join the blockchain so meaning that it's called something called off the chain versus on the chain data right so you can do this off the chain and you can keep this information on the bank record for compliance now the data of the persons that goes on the chain that become anonymous you know me so as as a bank that you know allows you to buy that token or select for example you know who the person is for the compliance right on the other hand for the secondary person whoever is in that network of blockchain that interact with that person they need not to know about the person does that make sense yeah thank you yeah can I ask a question as a follow-up to that question sorry what yeah can I ask a question as a follow-up to the previous question of course yes so um does it mean the the blockchain network operators don't have um an obligation of KYCO AML see blockchain technology is a technology the person doesn't know anything you know technology is just a piece of quote a small contract is just a piece of quote yeah I know I'm talking about I'm talking about the network operators because the blockchain network has an operator yeah I know see the things is that the network operators the programmers all these people are technical people they um they don't know anything they don't know anything about KYC or AML because the things is that um as I mentioned in my my presentation before you start the tokenization you need to first understand the legal background and put together a business model in that business models you need to include in your requirement that we need this we need this kind of the compliance when this comes to people who are running this they may not know it unless it has been specifically embedded into the contract so for example if there's a small contract said that no condition a and b c means uh non-compliance right so that automatically gonna stop the person from transacting so my point is that um the people who are building developing and even managing that um they um they basically they um so they basically they are not the same as people who make sure that the compliance is there because as a system admin on this for example someone give you conditions that look a b c you know if this a b c happens then uh you have to flag the customers right you just do your job and in most cases as a system admin you just want to make sure the network is running uh you know I mean there is no kind of the attack to the networks or for example program doesn't have a bulk so these are like a technical job is required from you and then those people who are doing AML or to do the compliance are mostly non-technical people yeah so if I get you clearly what you're saying is the network operators shift the obligation on those coming to build their any product they want to build on the blockchain yeah for example if it's a bank coming to build that particular product on the blockchain to do that organization the responsibilities on them then the network operators tell them before you build anything on our platform for example you need to do the KYC and so on yes if required in your content most likely required but my point is that um so my point you're right so basically the network operators and programmers they are following they just okay there's a bc they do you know that there's a task list of coding a technical task list they do they're required to do those stuff requirement is just not part of the developers they're not part of the technical team and then there is a couple of other questions doesn't let me read this there is a hyper ledger lab that oh capital market is g has been working with a mind we just a model sample um tenant and token and implementation of your vc and the best so again that some people are sending comments about um some of the things that they are doing again asset tokenization is so much stuff so much use cases around that and then let's the completion of bank of the columbia Cambodia on that and the best about iroha okay that's good with the hyper ledger iroha and then also getting me channel and then um doesn't give us the influence the selections of the platform as to the whether the blockchain is publicly private and give us second address and the private ledgers bother you see um again know your customers someone asks is know your customers has any effect on the choice of platform the answer is no um again um so um for the for the like even for the public one right there is a way to implement kyc you know i mean um there is a way to implement kyc um so basically kyc is not going to limit you on the choice of platform that's the answer for that and then let me see what other question i have here any more questions i don't have a question but i i have a comment and it's to just just follow up when you mention about the hyper ledger iroha so um just before christmas is part of the five year anniversary and five years looking forward for hyper ledger the um there was a presentation made by um a bunch of the japanese projects in hyper ledger iroha presented there and if you scoot along i dropped a link into the presentation to one minute 20 this issue of the kyc in the banking scenario they've they've established a multi level kyc system where um wearing your own wallet it's kind of there's a small amount which is sort of public and in the majority of the banking system it's private and there's a obviously and that allows that um that allows a sort of a blend or it's a practical implementation of both worlds it's what it's worth it's slide during the talk is in japanese but the slide during english so it's easy to kind of see how the business rules plug into it into hyper ledger yeah yeah i saw the link yeah i'm gonna check it out and thanks for your comment again um the things like the things that are happening around the this i mean around the whole blockchain as a whole and around like as a tokenization is fast you know these things are moving you know and then um as i said so um as you mentioned the new customers is very important you know when you're doing this but maybe you know when you're doing for example tokenizing your real estate you know um might be a little bit different you know i mean so um it's um it's i'm gonna double check i'm gonna i'm gonna check where the link that you said i can see right now in japanese like english i want to check that after uh this presentation i want to look at that to see um what what you guys are doing on your iroha and there's um there's an english version of the recording um i'll post that into the links as well okay and then um then uh what else was going to um so i'm really enjoying the event organizations i'm working with the team of the engineers okay so guys i can also admin linkedin um the things is that um asset tokenizations believe me or not mostly is it requires business background than your technical i mean we're gonna have another workshop hopefully in the in the near futures that i can assure you how easy to tokenize it's really a small contract and then tokenize that on the other hand the business part of it to come up with the right business model that is more challenging you know i mean so i think uh asset tokenizations especially for people who are coming from technical background who doesn't have a background in finance i think that's a little bit challenging for them and that's one things that because most of the books right now if you look at asset tokenization you jump into the technical part showing a small contract on the other hand in real world especially at this stage that they're experimenting most of this stuff has been done on the business part of it and the bank of Cambodia that's good let me just yes open this um yes i think we are getting close to the time um and then the question seems to us slowly slowing down um thank you Matthew i think this is awesome yeah this is very um active um discussion that i have ever seen in so many uh conference call because the things is that because the things is that um most of the i told you before most of the people who are developers they just like to talk about code right away and because the things if you don't know the big picture you know what it is what's the point of talking about the code yeah right so that's yeah yeah so so thank you and uh like uh Danila also mentioned and the recording i work with people to upload it uh to somewhere public you cannot see i've also posted on common uh comments on the meetup group so you can also have the link i see and then we see a few information and the the main golden request if you are uh having problem posting into the the message board and you can send email to me um my name Barry Huang at gmail.com with a little bit of summary i think i can create a short temporary like email chain list just send to everyone here that is willing to share their information and projects uh just to come comprising of privacy and also yeah help help to mingle with the help yeah yeah definitely and then also again uh guys um it's the same touch maybe near future i'm going to have another workshop me one of most senior team members you're going to have another workshop that's more uh geared toward the technical people that we do some hands-on coding there to um to show you one example of asset tokenization a small contract uh building a front and then back in ui and with that so um for now again thanks again everyone for attending this and then you can also add me linkedin or you know message you know uh Barry and he's gonna forward it to me and then have a wonderful afternoon Barry yeah and thank you everyone i thank you Matthew have a great weekend bye guys you too take care take care bye bye thank you bye bye bye