 All right, I'm gonna start now with the webinar. There we go, okay. Hello everyone. Good morning, good afternoon or good evening depending on where in the world you are zooming in from. And welcome to this Hyperledger webinar with IPV. We are gonna start in just a couple of minutes just to give a chance to everybody to join. Hello, good morning, good afternoon and good evening everybody depending on where in the world you're zooming in from and welcome to this Hyperledger in-depth webinar with IPV. Happy to have you here. And we will wait just a minute or two to get everybody a chance to join. And while we wait, you are welcome to use the chat. Say hello and tell us where in the world you are zooming in from. Hello everybody. Thank you for joining this webinar with us with Hyperledger in-depth webinars with IPV. Today, IPV's president Lien and the head of the product management at IPV Jonas will present at our webinar called the maximizing the value of your intellectual property with a smart intangible asset management platform. We are delighted to share this webinar with us. My name is Tomas today and I'm an ecosystem manager at the Hyperledger Foundation. And today I will have a chance to take you through some housekeeping and also present our panelists. So first, if you join any other Hyperledger webinars you know that there are some housekeeping rules. So first of all, all are welcome in the Hyperledger community. We strive to create a safe and welcoming community for everybody. So please follow the Hyperledger code of conduct while interacting with one another and while talking with others in the community as well. You can find our code of conduct on our website and on our Wiki as well. So all the Hyperledger webinars are held under Linux antitrust policy which you can also find on our Wiki and on our webpage as well. We are recording this webinar and the recording will be available in both our webinar library and on the YouTube as well. It's, we're also live on both YouTube and LinkedIn so welcome everybody joining there as well. And you will also be able to download the slides presented today along with the video. Now we encourage these sessions to be as interactive as possible. So we encourage you to stay active and get the most out of it. So please use the raise your hand button to get unmuted and to speak up. And of course the more activity we have the better experience for everybody. You're also welcome to post your questions either in chat or in the Q&A box. And we will get to these questions during the presentation or at the end as well. For those of you following us on YouTube or LinkedIn, feel free to also use the chat button over there. And we will ask our panelists later on at the end of the presentation. Now, without further ado, very happy to introduce the panelists today. Lien Pinto, the president of IPV and Jonas Block, the head of product management at IPV. And without further ado, Lien and Jonas, over to you. Thanks Tomas, we appreciate that. Let me switch over and I'll get our slides going here. While I'm doing that, oh, I can't share yet. Okay. There we go. I still can't share, Tomas. Can't share, okay. Yeah, you need to stop sharing so I can. And while we're doing that, I'd like to first start by thanking Hyperledger Foundation for this opportunity. Hyperledger has been a great supporter of how I am partner of IPV since our inception. And we really appreciate being able to come and join everybody here today on the webinar, LinkedIn, YouTube Live, in order to go through, you know, what we want to talk about, maximizing the value of an intellectual property with our smart and tangible asset management. So let's kind of get in. Who am I? I'm Lien Pinto. I'm president of IPV. IPV is a global innovation leader in AI and blockchain-based IP analytics software and services. You know, I am a, jokingly, I am an attorney at law. I added that in only because I saw it on Jonas's introduction. I thought I need to do it too, although I'm kind of a recovering attorney at law. I was most recently the director of patent licensing at IBM. I did a lot, learned a lot in a relatively short period of time, but generated a decent amount of revenue for the company at that time and really kind of learned the trade. My background is actually in pharmacy. And I did patent litigation for a few years on the brand side and the farm industry for a good period of time. And, you know, kind of came over to the tech where when I joined over at IBM and recently only in August of 2022, did I join IPV. So Jonas, I'll let you kind of introduce yourself. Thank you very much. Also, thanks a lot to the Hyperledger Foundation for hosting us from my end and good morning to everyone or afternoon or wherever you are. Good evening. My name is Jonas Block. I'm an attorney at law admitted to practice in Germany as you already saw on the slide. I'm head of product management at IPV since 2021. Before that I've been involved in the development of the machine learning algorithms that IPV is leveraging for its platform. I hold a PhD in law and I've written a thesis on the topic of automated licensing of standard essential patents, leveraging artificial intelligence and blockchain technology. My background is I'm a pure IP nerd. I have extensive experience in patent infringement cases primarily here in Germany and Düsseldorf ranging from SME to multinational company. And what I saw during this time is there's a desperate need for small medium sized enterprises to dramatically lower transactional costs in the IP space and to understand what they own, what they have in terms of potential and how they can get access to funding or to form joint ventures with other companies in this space. So we have productized this using blockchain technology in the IPV platform and I'm going to demo that later on to you during this webinar, how it looks put to practice and from the perspective of blockchain technology. Thanks a lot. Thanks Jonas. All right, so why are we here? This is with this webinar's title maximizing the value of intellectual property with IPV smart and tangible asset management. Well, what does that have to do with hyper ledger or blockchain? IPV is at the forefront of the digital transformation of IP. We're fostering this worldwide with the introduction of our revolutionary dynamic patent NFTs that we call IPV digital assets. We believe our patent NFTs are the first real blockchain and NFT use case for business. So how did we get here? IPV was founded in by Eric Spangenberg. He's a serial entrepreneur and a true visionary in the IP space. Eric realized early on that patents were an untapped asset class and became a leading practitioner in patent monetization. But even with the success as he achieved, he understood there were many valuable patents yet to be discovered and many businesses and inventors incapable of realizing any return on investment for their R&D. Although Eric developed a proprietary AI algorithm and predicted Vanillic software to help identify these hidden value drivers, he soon realized that IP system remained fractionalized inefficient and disconnected from the real value drivers hidden in plain sight. The fundamental business problem in the IP space is that intangible assets in particular patents listed on the bounty are underutilized, undervalued and generally misunderstood. Currently there's approximately 25 million active patent assets in the world, all the flow transaction, commercialization and financing rates do a lack of transparency, liquidity and no standardized asset valuation metrics. So upon learning about blockchain and seeing the potential in particular NFTs to address this friction and the inefficiencies present with IP transactions, IP we was founded in 2018. So how does blockchain and its applications address this fundamental issue? Starting with 25 million dynamic patent entities standardized and consolidated data. Smart contracts, they enable those efficient microtransaction of patent assets which really should not take as long as they do to occur right now. And blockchain also provides a verified evidence trail for legal auditing purposes and providing a much more robust way to track and manage your IP. So starting first with patent NFTs, what is the current problem? I mean, the current problems we talked about that a little bit before. Inefficiency, there's no centralized repositories. There's multiple disparate databases to store IP. Data managed portfolios and transact assets but they don't communicate with each other and businesses don't have a solid trustworthy way to find all this information. Public resources and internal records really are not verified. There's no, it's untrustworthy for owners to be able to rely upon those and have a true appreciation of what's really owned and what rights are associated with those assets. And sometimes owners just don't pay attention to what there is in their portfolio or realize the value of their IP assets. So what's the solution? Blockchain and NFTs. Blockchain provides a cryptographically secure way to store this data, successful for anywhere. Verified authenticity and ownership of these tokenized assets that are managed by a digitized patent, the patent NFTs. That creates a liquid asset that are readily transferable and can provide commercial value to owners immediately. How else do we adjust this? Smart contracts. So smart contracts can increase, drastically increase the volume of patent reduction. It takes the time and cost out of almost any process enabling near real-time operations. They deliver a high degree of accuracy and control with much less transactional risk of error. Assets are able to be transferred securely in real-time. And there's governance provided by the smart contract and use of the blockchain in that transaction process. And they really help to remove the guesswork around what rights the user actually has to transact with those IP assets. And finally, trails of evidence, evidence trails. IP and data transactions are recorded on the blockchain and are immutable. They cannot be amended. Errors can be addressed, but it doesn't overwrite the original record providing a verified evidence trail. I just love this quote from Marco Barulio Bernstein.io. Stake him recently from an issue of the World IP Office magazine. It's really describing what IPV is doing and why we're here today to talk to everybody about hyper ledger. Combining a public blockchain with a versioned and encrypted data repository will lead to the creation of a digital IP management platform that can conveniently prove existence, integrity and ownership of documents, artistic compositions, research data, design, software, business plans, contracts and more. Each digital object is permanently timestamped, archived and linked to its owner in an immutable way. That's what we're here to talk about. That's why IPV is here to address the friction. And we do that with hyper ledger fabric network and the Casper blockchain. So IPV uses that permission distributed ledger technology of the open source hyper ledger fabric and public Casper blockchain to securely store verified public and private information about each asset. These underlie and form the basis of IPV solutions to these persistent issues in the IP space around asset identification, management and monetization. So starting quickly with IPV digital assets. It was just last month in Davos during the World Economic Forum that I announced along with Daniela from hyper ledger and Meta from Casper, IPV's deployment of 25 million dynamic patent NFTs. This represents the majority of the world's active patent assets. These are immutable digital encapsulations of all data associated with that patent. So we're minting these starting with publicly available data curated by Clarivate. Clarivate's the world renowned leader in IP data and we're really grateful to have them as a partner in this as well. This data is accessible and managed only with private keys. So if any private data is added by the owners it's only them that are having access to that. And what do the IPV digital assets do? Largely they are just going to reduce inefficiencies and typical transaction costs that are experienced with monetization of these assets. I'm gonna pause there and see if we have any questions to address in the meantime while Jonas is preparing my head of project manager is preparing to show a short demo like he said of our SIAM solution. Okay, Jonas then I think let's head over to you while kind of go on to slide 11 and then you can take it from there. Thank you very much. So let me show you how this looks. But to practice I will specifically highlight the blockchain dimension of this as this is the primary focus of this webinar so that you can see how it all works together because the way that the platform is operating is there's one lesson learned that we learned very early on in the IPV journey is enterprises were not ready to be exposed to blockchain technology directly when we started out. So the task was how do you yield the benefits of blockchain technology without making people scared in terms of being exposed to a new technology. It's immutable, which also means it's not forgiving on the infrastructural side. And at the same time, no company wants to spoil their ESG just because they are leveraging the advantages of blockchain technology. So the projects can be killed at the executive level. If you don't make your case that you're, I don't wanna say carbon neutral but at least very, very reduced on the carbon footprint which is why Casper in combination with Hyperledgear is just the perfect way forward to secure the data and to leverage the advantages of blockchain technology. So as Leanne mentioned, the basic way of looking at the IP data as we're doing it is very valuation driven. You don't see a lot of blockchain data points in the platform. I'll take you to where you can see them in a second so no worries. But we are maintaining the accounts or the wallets for our customers to make sure that the benefits can be yielded. Having said that is to participate in this platform the patent assets that the company owns currently patent assets only are tokenized and then onboarded into the system and all of the data on a recurring basis some data points on a weekly basis some data points on a monthly basis on a quarterly basis are stored into the respective digital assets that are powering this. So here, for example, you have a smaller portfolio of a company they can track what is important to them on the company side. So they have their key performance indicators in terms of valuation, value per asset so that you can benchmark yourself against other companies but at the same time, everything is powered by these NFTs behind it and we are updating the respective metadata documents into which the data is written. So it's producing an evidence trail, it can be audited and all of these data points are accessible by the smart contracts on the blockchain level and smart contracts that are operating in terms of the legal framework. For example, in the use cases like the transactions marketplace or the smart pools that we have. How does this look? It's time to go there. So if we look at the asset list of this company, we have a couple of patents here, very simple and you have an easy access and overview about it. We have tried to make the UI as clean as possible to not confuse the user, which is the same if you are looking at a blockchain asset. The typical NFTs that people, if at all, are used to are pictures of monkeys or metadata documents being stored somewhere in IPFS, which is by the way, what we also do with the public metadata documents on our chain, but we have this large degree of flexibility and we have a user interface that is very simple to use and that sits on top of everything to make sure that the users are not lost along the way. So here, for example, we have a couple of assets owned and maintained by this company, distributed across the IT, sorry, not across, but within the IT and software industry, but distributed geographically over a couple of countries in the world. You could see the breakdown here. We take a close look at the core markets for these assets. Now I'll take you into the blockchain part of this is if the user clicks onto the asset, they have the opportunity to drill in deeper. The reason why this is done is because we have this spread in terms of the user persona from a product perspective because one, we have the executive users that are looking at the valuation part of it. So at the summarized data that originates from the blockchain layer without being exposed to the individual data points, but at the same time, it's very important to give the opportunity for the IP professionals to drill down into the data to understand more about where does this come from? How is this data powering the dashboard? Here, for example, we are at the asset level. This is a granted U.S. patent. You can see the invention rating. You have the minimum value that we have verified. And as you saw in the slide there previously, we are tracking this over time. So we are updating this valuation of the asset on a regular basis to make sure that the user can follow the value potentials of their respective assets over time. This is basically the UI that sits on top of the metadata document in this case. So all of the IP information, which we are getting primarily from Clarivate, but there's additional sources to it, is stored in here. So you can imagine this basically as an array in a metadata document where all of this information is stored and this is how it's visualized. So for example, here we have the industry. You have the number of claims for this respective patent. You have the relevant dates on a timeline for this patent. You have the related NFTs, which are family members that are owned by the same entity. And as you can see at the right here, and this is an important point that I want to highlight is this is IP we verified. Because this is one of the core advantages that we are leveraging for that system is we are avoiding the oracle problem by like we are doing as little hindsight verification as possible on the data. If we have to do it, we flag it. And if we're convinced that it's correct, we mark it as verified. At the same time, if we are the source of the respective data point and we store it on blockchain immediately, we mark it as IP we verified. So for example, here regarding ownership of patents in different countries, but for the same invention, we can flag this as IP we verified. And this is the whole concept is a mix of private and public data points where we do the verification on the public data points and we're working with the sources of IP data to get even earlier into the innovation lifecycle process to have more verified data in the platform because more verified data points powering the system means that we can increase the user's trust into the system. I will show you this, for example, with regard to title. Leanne mentioned that title is recorded in the patent register. So here you have the patent registers portion as regards the title. We have the source is the public register and here you have the title for the NFT. So that NFT was minted. We have verified ownership and you can see that the two are in sync, meaning the patent register owner is the same as the NFT owner. And we're constantly monitoring this to make sure that they don't fall apart. In addition to this, the blockchain portion has a lot of arrays. For example, you have the prosecution history loaded into this. I did this for that asset for the purpose of this webinar to show you how the public data and the private data that the owner uploads, as you can see there's an upload documentation button here is handled in the platform. So other than the IP, we verified data points that I was pointing to above. Here we have marked this as owner verified, which means that the companies or people that are transacting with this asset have a direct access into understanding the verification tier of the data point that they're working with. So if you imagine a due diligence situation with the lawyer reviewing these documents, then you can focus on the ones that are owner verified because it immediately shows you that IPV has not done verification on these. And you can trust into the IPV verified data points. I mean, obviously you would take a look at some before you completely buy into that, but we're doing a lot of work on the verification side with the goal of reducing the amounts of documents that need to be reviewed during a due diligence process. And because of that, decreasing the transaction cost overhead on an IP transaction, with the goal of making IP monetization and utilization for financial purposes easier for everyone involved. So that is basically how the NFT portion, the digital asset layer works. You can record licenses into here directly. You have the same NFT licenses and the owner uploaded licenses that originate from a period in time that was before the minting of the asset. You have arrays for product footprints or claim charts. You have arrays for pledges. For example, if this patent is pledged as available for a smart pool so that the smart pool algorithm understands, you can see the verification here again. The smart pool algorithm understands that a specific asset is ready to be used without having to ask for the consent of the patent holder every single time as long as this pledges in force. You have other documentations and one of the beautiful things of blockchain technology is we also have shareable know-how because if you speak about technology transfer in the patent space, typically a patent does not give you a right to do something. It just gives you a right to stop other people from doing something that you hold a patent on which is if you have a license, you are now allowed to, like the owner waves his or her right to exclusivity for a specific invention, but that does not get you anywhere unless you have know-how and adoption information that helps you implement that technology. So we make that available directly in the digital asset and in a transaction context, for example, if you are a licensee to this asset, you can get access to the shareable know-how that allows you to implement the technology that you are licensing in here. So everything is taken into account on the NFT level already and then feeding up into the platform and in a smart transactions context, if you want to make an asset available for license or for sale, you can designate in the offer creation process already which data points from these digital asset details you would like to make available to your prospect buyer or licensee under NDA, of course, and then you can control access directly on the blockchain level and make sure that you don't have a breach because this is enforced on the blockchain level immediately. That is basically how it looks put to practice. If you try to highlight the blockchain portion as much as possible, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about this. As I said, I wanted to focus on the technology and not necessarily on the beautiful advantages of our product, but feel free to reach out to me. All right, thanks so much. Thanks, Jonas. I guess we'll keep going. Let me go back to our slide deck here and we will, okay. So Jonas just walked us through IPV Siam. I mentioned that we've tokenized the majority of the active patent assets to the tune of 25 million into the dynamic patent NFTs. But what does this do? I mean, yeah, we're putting data onto the blockchain and storing that in the NFTs. Then there's two things that really does. It helps to provide a more efficient way to manage the assets, but with Siam, you can access those and then get access to our valuation that's done that allows businesses to make verified data-driven decisions about their IP. That valuation is objective. So you can look at your portfolio, look at it per asset basis, get insights into your competitor's portfolio, track that development and identify any value-driving assets. The digital transformation of that really allows better creation of those assets as an asset class and liquidity in the IP market which doesn't actually exist. And IPV is providing a marketplace in order to transact. So sell, license, acquire assets, smart pools and emerging tech areas and also using, at least in the US for now, other countries, once it's more allowed from a regulatory standpoint to use those assets as collateral in order to obtain a loan. We're currently, we're starting with patents because it's easy. It's where the largest known problem is. But what's next? We've got, we're working with Coke Disrupted Technologies and other well-known white shoe law firms in New York City to provide more robust coverage for other types of IP. For instance, trade secrets are talked about a lot right now. These are gaining traction. Enterprise is coming to realize that the types of differentiated protection that trade secrets can provide. In addition to just holding things as patents. So we see a huge potential in dynamic NFTs as a comprehensive IP data management tool and really to help inject liquidity in this and create an asset class around IP which is not currently happening. So kind of pulling it all together, IPV through Siam and patent NFTs, we're seeking to empower all internal stakeholders with simple, consistent, relevant financial and performance metrics to further innovation and address the bottlenecks and inefficiencies in the current IP system. By digitizing patents into NFTs to operate underneath Siam, all patent owners can have increased efficiency, transparency and trust in the space and the system. We'll experience improved patent portfolio management, create value and liquidity and make it more approachable and easy for all to use. This digital transformation of patents into NFTs benefits the patent owners as well as its licensing and commercial partners by increasing that transparency into the assets with increases value and commercialization rates. For IPV, it's really just a matter of explaining how creating NFTs as digital stores of IP related data provides a powerful mechanism for businesses. From SMEs through enterprise to manage their IP assets. And then how beyond simple tokenization, IPV digital assets managed with Siam will eventually unlock additional commercial opportunities and a larger return investment with greater efficiency than ever before been seen by players in the IP space. IPV believes that blockchain and applications like patent NFTs are at the heart of the digital transformation of IP and provide a unique, elegant and revolutionary solution to known problems in the space. We think enterprise will soon learn the real value that blockchain and NFTs can bring to business and the volume of issues that can be solved. So I wanna thank again, the Hyperledger Foundation for support and today and the time to kind of discuss Siam and what we're doing. We look to bring this all to fruition. Here, you guys can be able to follow all this stuff and click on these links once you get access to this. And I guess I can stop. Well, we can probably just go to questions, I suppose, Tomas, if that works for you. Honey, how do you have it? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Leanne. We had quite some questions already in the Q&A box and Jonas has been very diligent in answering them. And I would invite you, the participants, feel free to raise your hand and I'll unmute you and you can just ask your question to Leanne and Jonas. Otherwise, I guess we can also answer the questions rather than typing them. Maybe easier also for other people to see, right? Okay, I have a question from Brett. So, Brett, please go ahead. Sorry, I think I hit my hand by mistake, I apologize. But the great event, thank you so much, Leanne. Thank you, Jonas and Tomas. Sorry about that. Yeah, no problem. Thank you, Brett. We have another question from Mohamed. So, Mohamed, please go on. You can speak now if you'd like. Hello. Hello. Do you hear me now? Yeah. I can hear you. How are you guys doing? Actually, I'm in New Zealand. It's 4 a.m. here. I'm not sure what the time is there. So, good morning, everyone. Thank you for your time and explanation. Just trying to understand, you guys are like a branch of, like a hyperledger umbrella or is it like a private entity and it's a SAS model application or it's more into like an open-source solution that we can integrate into as developers or like interpiles with an API? Like generally speaking, what the use case will be like, would I be able to create like application for patents from scratch or just pull my own IP and just save it there? Yeah, thanks, Mohamed. So, to answer, I think a couple of questions I heard in there. So one, we work with Hyperledger. IPV is built on top of that. We are a separate enterprise, the corporation in Delaware, Incorporated in Delaware in the United States and it is a SAS offering. Our smart and tangible asset management solution is a SAS offering through IPV in order to unlock and understand the value of your assets. I mean, we're starting with patents but other intellectual property will be added and to really manage that and then transact with it. Do you mind me asking the evaluation just gets me like thinking how would you evaluate like 1.6 million or how much would this IP worth? What is the criteria for the evaluation? So I didn't hear what you said after 1.6 million but it's probably, I think the question. There was a value on the data that you were showing. There was like a 1.6 million worth. Okay. Yeah, no, and I saw that, okay. So I saw that question in the chat as well when Jonas was talking. So our valuation benchmarks are done, they're objective. So I believe Jonas talked through this and he has probably a better grasp and better response to this. So please kind of back me up or clarify if I make any mistakes here. But we do the assessment, our AI and algorithm does an assessment on each patent asset determining the quality and the validity score of each and then running that through the algorithm based for the financial evaluation benchmark using publicly reported financial data. And that's how the valuation benchmark is initially assessed and tracked based on development of the portfolio and how your markets move and things like that. Jonas, I don't know if you have anything else to kind of help clarify that further. Yeah, maybe two sentences because I think it's the perfect opportunity to explain why we have been starting the minting of 25 million patent NFTs. If not all of those 25 million are customer NFTs in the platform. The reason for this originates in valuation because if you want to do IP valuation seriously you and no offense to human human valuation experts on that end, but if you want to look at markets and not just at one specific point. So what the human does, they would look at one patent doing valuation and evaluation of that patent and then come to a value conclusion. What we do is we look at all of the active patents on a specific market. For example, the 600,000 active patents in the US electronics industry. And for that, we need to know who owns what with what degree of likeliness that this is correct. So we're doing verification and minting all of those 600,000 assets not just to have them ready for our customers and to write the valuation log basically into those digital assets. But beyond this, we're also doing this to secure that the in a top down approach the values can be allocated based on the same standard of assessment for every single patent within a full market. So that's the difference. We're looking at 600,000 patents at the same time holding everyone against the same benchmark. And then writing this into the digital assets that are powering this. That was more than two sentences, apologies but I just thought I'd add that. That's actually, you know, asking makes it more clear like to get into it. If you don't mind me asking another one more question in regards to the IP liquidity editing get up. So usually is it common thing or is it something new? Yeah, I can take this one too. So on the liquidity side, coming from patent infringement practice is you have this huge problem that the ownership records for many patents are updated very slowly. For example, in Germany, we are considered to be fast but we take four weeks to three months just to change the ownership in the German patent register. So if you want to transact that asset you always have this huge delay in with the register catching up. And if the register is not up to speed then you have a problem because you might be dealing with the wrong person and then you have to do the whole verification manually in the due diligence process. So one of the problems of IP not transacting more is slow updates or inconsistent records in the public databases. Ultimately it is our goal that the databases are linked to the NFT so that they can update each other vice versa. But right now we are not a governmental organization is we have to do this on a private level and we have to move ahead. One of the upsides is you have new use cases which bring liquidity for example, smart pools where you can push and emphasize adoption early on when the technology is just on the upscale in terms of the intensity. Or by offering things like asset backed lending because you can enforce the whole security system the security assignment you can enforce on chain. So it's simpler to use the assets and collateralize them if they are tokenized. So that's the liquidity portion. Yeah, so in terms of IP and now as you guys mentioned so you're just getting with the patent type so other IP equity part of it would that be on at the moment or maybe later on? That will be later. I mean, we're starting with, well, we're starting with patents for a couple of reasons. One, it's what we know. I mean, Jonas is a patent attorney. I'm a patent attorney. Eric our founder kind of started out and really kind of wrote the playbook on patent monetization and that game. So we're starting with what we know but we also appreciate in doing this that there's a very large need for one creation around an asset class for IP and we're working with a lot of real solid thought leaders in the space in particular Coinbase in order and Coke disruptive technologies in order to kind of work through and think through how that's happening. But the main value driver in a lot of companies generally in their balance sheet is that patent aspect and providing better understanding in creation of better opportunities for companies is where we see the most tangible benefit is right now. That's fair enough. Thank you very much guys. No more questions. Appreciate your time. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Mohammed. And we do have another question from Shad. So I have unmuted you. Hello, can you guys hear me? Yeah. Thank you guys. Thank you all so much. We got a question. So I think this is a new idea, IPU like smart contracts in the patent system. So the question is for the CEO, Lin Pinto. How much industry resistance did you face? I mean, that's a funny question. That's part of the, you know, my job's not easy. I think I joked about this when I was at Davos kind of talking about what IPU is doing. You know, I'm out there talking about two things that a lot of companies look at as very complex and esoteric, namely patents and blockchain and NFTs. And there's a lot of misunderstanding around both of those. But in that, I see a real opportunity. And that's why I feel real confident that what we're doing in providing the easiest honor for enterprise and companies to get involved with blockchain is marrying that up with patents and helping them understand like, there's a better way to do this. And by doing that, you can increase value for your company and add to your bottom line. So is it easy? No, is it fun? Yeah, because it provides, I think it answers a lot of questions and issues that are still existing in this space. Okay, that's good. Can I, am I allowed to, another question? Just a small one. Can I be here? Sure. Probably. Sure. So I guess for right now, based on Jonas Block's answer, you guys are limited to certain industries, maybe like inventions in the mechanical system, technology and so on. Do you have a timeline to get to music and arts in general, paintings and so on? So a couple of questions. So we're not limited, we're covering all patent assets. So all classes, I mean, all categories of patents. But there's many, getting to your point, there's many different forms, obviously of intellectual property and art in general. So music is largely controlled by copyright, brands and things like that. There's a value to brand. There's also a value to the trademarks that are associated with brands. I actually was just in Tokyo last week, meeting with Deloitte and we were talking about kind of getting to that next level when it comes to brand valuation and trademark valuation because a lot of companies do do that. And that is something that we're working on but it takes a, that's a little bit of a different market. And we want to, we're trying to, kind of back to my last comment, we're trying to make it the easiest on-ramp for companies to adopt this way to manage and transact in their IP. And we think it's best done with patents because the valuation is a little bit more straightforward than looking at brands and trademarks and things like that. I do know of others and we're working with them as well. On handling art and things like that. And there's a lot of exciting things that's going on there too. So it's not on our roadmap, but art and things like that is not on the roadmap in the next two years, but it's definitely in the plans. Thank you, Shah. Thank you so much. Okay, do we have any other questions? Feel free to raise your hand. Okay, we do. There we go. Hello guys, sorry, I'm back again. Actually, I was thinking, because I do have a software company and I do task projects as well. And we struggle some time to get to like identify our IP. I really love the idea, by the way. Thank you. I was thinking, why not like having it like work with other things, as you mentioned, like trademarks for brands, right? Like to get so many people, especially people who come to us to have their first MVP, for example, they didn't know, they don't even know about patents. They don't know what is that. And they might not think about applying or maybe years later. For the trademark part of it, isn't that would give a value as well to the business? And then to add it for us to have, this is my trademark that's registered as an IP for me as well. Yeah, certainly, trademarks provide value. We are not a law firm. So we're not gonna be giving counsel or providing assistance and filing for trademark protection. We do work with and partner with service providers that you can consult with through the platform in order to get kind of assistance along those lines. I mean, for people who already have the trademark. Ah, okay. So you just want to have, yeah. So certainly, that's the concept about IPV digital assets. I mean, what we're doing is we want to provide a way for all of a company's intellectual property to be managed via NFT. And that the entire portfolio will be seen via patents, trade secrets, trademarks, managed via NFT as an IPV digital asset. So yeah, that's definitely the goal. The roadmap on trademarks is a little bit further behind trade secrets, but it's right there as well. Okay, to use the service, do we have like a free trial or how does like payment happen? Or do we just, should we get pre-approved to become a user to this? Right, yeah. Maybe we should like set up, Mahavad, let's get your information and we can kind of have a separate, yeah, I think that might be best to have that. But so yeah, to answer your questions, yes and yes. I mean, it's usually in a subscription, it's a software service, but we can go into more of those details offline. I think that'd be a better venue. Okay, great. That's amazing. Thank you very much, guys. Yeah, thank you, Mohamed. And, you know, Lee-Ann has also shared the details there so you can also reach out to the IPV later. We do have another question from Rajesh. So Rajesh, you're now allowed to talk. Thank you, sir. And thank you, Pinto. Myself Rajesh, the Guru, I have a startup in UK, Singapore and India. I'm exploring some of the IP opportunities in the hyperledger. And I'm sorry, I joined bit late because I caught up with other meeting in the last minute. So I just would like to explore more opportunities, how we can leverage on the hyperledger, specifically blockchain and publisher blockchain, to protect our IPs and what are the opportunities in the market to grab it? Well, Rajesh, if you would like more information about hyperledger, you're welcome to reach out to me. You can find me or LinkedIn or through the Discord channel, I will post after this webinar and then we can have a separate meeting about that. And I can tell you more how to get involved in hyperledger and so on. Because now on this webinar, we are particularly focusing on the IPV solution. You're not working? As I joined bit late, I'm really sorry. I... No problem. I will connect with you, Thomas. Yeah, that's great. Just connect anytime and then we can talk about it. Great. Thank you, Rajesh. Yeah, we do that. Thank you, Thomas. Yeah. Okay, do we have any other questions for Leanne and Eunice? There's one interesting in the chat that I might want to just comment on is what the advantages are. I was typing as much as I could, but I'll probably just take this one. By hosting data in a public chain, if you have a permission platform operating, it's like this is the primary purpose of this. And that's a very good question because this is something that I was struggling with when I transitioned from litigator to product person with a blockchain product, is if you want to verify IP data, you always have this. So it would have been easier for copyright, for example. For copyright, outside of the US, there is no way to put this into a public register. So you don't have to keep a public register in sync with the blockchain. In this case, it would be perfectly fine to simply encrypt directly only on Hyperledger. You don't need a public portion for this because there is no public dimension to this outside of the US. For patents, we constantly get the question, there is already a patent register. Why do you need an NFT? And the reason I have explained before is because you need to make this transparent as to who owns what in that space to supplement the public information that is available on the register. So our philosophy was to, how do I say this, kind of split the data and say the data that is normally available on a public register, it makes sense for us to make that public on a public blockchain using IPFS for a public metadata document so that anyone that wants to screen the chain can check, for example, on the long run, you want to maybe compare the registered data with the IPFS document that you have access to publicly. And then we also had the need because you can store everything on a public chain because otherwise people that are maintaining trade secrets, for example, will start to hate you and you're causing a lot of liabilities there. So we have the need to also create a private repository for data where we can store the hashes somewhere but then at the same time have the, it's independent whether the document is stored on premise or the document is stored and hosted in a cloud somewhere. It doesn't matter because we only hash the document and then store the hash on that chain to keep track of this. That is basically why we had to walk with this or go with this bifurcation. I can assure you if we did not have to do it we would not have done it but we see a necessity to do it that way. I hope this answers your question on the public chain. Yeah, I think so. Thank you for clarifying. There we go. Well, we're at the hour so we will wrap up this webinar. First of all, thank you so much, Liane and Jonas for taking us through this very exciting presentation and thank you for everybody who joined. It was lovely having you here and I understand that some questions might not have gotten answered. So as you have seen, Liane has been sharing the IPV contact information so please feel free to reach out to them. You can find the webinar slides on our webinar library so you can find the information there as well. And for those of us wanting to get in contact with Hyperledger, you can also join always our Discord channel or Rajesh, you can get in touch with me through LinkedIn and so on. So please follow us on Discord. We have a very active Discord community here at Hyperledger with a lot of real-time engagement and you can explore channels related to special interest groups to our working groups, to our projects and much more. We have some other upcoming webinars as well and you can find them on our event site. The first one that is upcoming is with Korsha Anousha Eiler. The CEO will talk about protecting software supply chains using Hyperledger Fabric and you can go to our event website to register there. Again, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you again, Liane and Jonas for the great presentation and hope to see you at another webinar again soon. Thank you. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you all and thank you to Hyperledger.