 Well, hello everybody and welcome to tomorrow. We're gonna talk about some really cool stuff that I'm like super excited about today And Lisa, what are you super excited about today? Well, if we want humans to become multi-planetary then we need to test our vehicles and a human-rated vehicle has just passed a Critical milestone find out which one if you stick around excellent and space Mike you've got something to be excited about today What are you excited about? Yeah, I'm kind of on the on the same train of thought there There has been an announcement that a commercial company is going to be sending a private customer around the moon and on top of that NASA and JAXA the Japanese space agency have signed an agreement to get to the surface of the moon together So I'm so excited to talk about what this means for our future and over on our observation lounge We've got Sarah. Who you talking to today Sarah. I'm talking with Chris Blackerby of Astroscale And their company is cleaning up space debris Which is really important because of the International Space Station lack loss of pressure if that happens again with real space junk We need to be able to well actually we need to prevent that. Sorry about that. Yeah Sounds like a good plan to me and stay tuned. This is tomorrow orbit 11 dot 36 Hey and welcome back you just saw us But now you're back and in order to get this show started We're gonna throw it over to space Mike over here for our launch minute because you've got some stuff to talk about some of us Are tired some of us are caffeinated some of us are just straight up excited about launches today Well before we get to the launch that happened today, let's first do things in chronological order So fair enough the first launch that happened over this week was actually a Falcon 9 launch Oh, man. This was a block 5 launch that launched from Space Launch Complex 40 in Cape Canaveral, Florida Whoo, and this launched on Monday September 10th at 445 coordinated universal time The payloads for this mission was the Telstar 18 vantage communication satellite also known as the Appstar 5c It's going to be used by two companies to provide coverage area that'll span from India and Pakistan in the west all the way to Hawaii in the east so it's providing a pretty wide communications band there and Something that I was just so excited about with this mission was the fact that they had a first-stage landing of the Falcon 9 booster on the Atlantic drone ship, of course I still love you and just always happy to see see that and of course they were able to do a Successful mission and deploy their payload successfully and that is going to a geostationary orbit This was a geostationary transfer orbit that it placed it into But this wasn't all the launch that everyone is so excited about was the Delta 2 launch the final launch of the Delta 2 And this was actually in the 7 4 2 0 configuration meaning it's the 7,000 series of the Delta It's particular upgrade as for solid rocket boosters a second stage engine and a zero third stage or no third stage This launched from Space Launch Complex to west at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California And it launched today Saturday, September 15th at 1246 coordinated universal time The payload for this mission was the ice at 2 which stands for the ice cloud and land elevation Satellite number 2 which is part of NASA's Earth's observation system and is a mission for measuring ice sheet elevation and sea ice as well as land Topography and vegetation characteristics using a laser to do that And this is going to accomplish a mission with that advanced topographic laser Otherwise known as Atlas and congratulations to everyone involved in the font of that And got it down on that excellent so I got to ask you Mike What was what was the most exciting thing that happened with these launch between these two launches that we had this week? Well, I mean just just obviously from my personal opinion the Falcon 9 landing I'm always happy and excited to see landings I don't know if I'm still getting as excited as I did the first time that they did it But oh man still makes me just just jump for joy every time I see that but seeing the last Delta 2 launch I mean this was all kind of bittersweet and the Delta rocket has had quite a long history to get here and Just I believe I have an integer of the evolution of the Delta It actually started off as an ICBM an intercontinental ballistic missile and it was called for back then But they made several upgrades and had experimental upper stages so that it could be a satellite booster And eventually they started adding solid rocket boosters to the side and having better upper stages until they got to the point Where they were extending the fuel stage on the first stage and had their own Upper stage for this and it evolved into the Delta 2 and the Delta 2 rocket has been launching since 1989 It's flown 156 times and only failed twice out of all those missions in all the different configurations that it's flown in and serve The the United States very well. Yeah, just a fantastic earlier I'm super jealous of you guys that you've got to go and see the launch Yeah, that was fun It was really really great getting out there and getting to watch sort of the this one song for for Delta 2 and And my my personally my favorite rocket. Oh, yeah, there we all are There's all of us out there trying not to be Semi-frozen because it is California. So it's like what 53 degrees Fahrenheit 15 degrees Celsius It's pretty cool. And we're all from California. So that's that's pretty much freezing to us Yeah, not all of us. Yeah, not all of us. Oh, do we have more people? Oh my gosh. Oh, yes We met a couple tomorrow viewers out there Adrian I believe that is your name So Adrian came up and saw us at the launch because I was tweeting out and I was like anyone that recognizes that watches this show come and see us And and yeah, so yeah, there we are. So yeah, it was really great We met quite a few tomorrow viewers actually out there so we're we're always excited to run into people when we are out there and Just to kind of go back to Delta 2 a little bit from Space Vogel in our chat room Kind of throwing down some some statistics Which was the this was the 100th consecutive successful launch of a Delta 2 and the 130th consecutive successful launch for United Launch Alliance ULA there which I believe this makes the Delta 2 Have the longest streak of consecutive successful launches If I recall correctly with that there, yeah, I'm not sure that's really interesting That would be really that would be yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that's true That's that's really interesting. Yeah, I think the next closest is the Ariane 4 And I think it's got somewhere like in the mid 70s of consecutive successful launches So just it's it stands sort of on its own Out there in the history of it and Mike if you could tell us a little bit about the yeah Cuz you have big statistics speak. Yeah Speaking of statistics tell us a little bit about the numbers that we got now Mike oh Man so just keeping track of all the orbital launches for this year with these two launches of the Falcon 9 and the Delta 2 We are neck and neck with China for a little boy for the year China has 24 successful orbital launches for the year and the United States now has 24 successful orbital launches of the year So it's gonna be a close race to see who's gonna be the rocket champion of 2018 Yeah, man, isn't there like a running bet going on somewhere like didn't there is there is just last week Me and Ben credible made a dollar bet. I bet that China is going to win this year Even though I hate to bet against my own country I just have a feeling that they're going to beat us in the number of launches, but it's gonna be very close That's my prediction. Yeah, it was wherever he is. I believe was betting for the United States So all right, well, we'll see who ends up winning that one and and we will let you know Either probably in the first tomorrow episode of orbit 12. So we'll take a look at what about you guys Do you think that there's any? Possible runner-ups. Do you think that Russia can possibly recover in the rest of the year that they'll maybe even be a bunch of launches from India? Undeduct so I'm gonna go for New Zealand Yes Yeah, I'm actually with you space Mike I think China is gonna top the list at the end of the year so Yeah, it's just it's so tough to it's so tough to go against their cadence that they have especially once they get going And then of course, there's a couple surprises that come from them all the time as well So we'll see how that goes. So and I just I mean that are gonna get us I think I'm pretty happy with the fact that there are multiple countries and Consortiums of countries that have launched as well. That's like not something that's been a thing You know up until very recently. So it's just it's super exciting to see all of this happening So really cool stuff. Yeah, and now we're gonna talk a little bit about launching But a very specific part of a mission After you launch because you come back. Yeah after doing that. So Tell us a little bit about coming back Well, in order to get humans to space and become multi-planetary, you know We're talking about the number of launches that we've had this year for different countries You know only the Russians are actually sending humans into space So that means if you want to go to other planets and become a space preparing civilization We're gonna need more than just one vehicle taking us to space So there's a few in development which is good because the more that we have the more Chances people are gonna have to get to space and a human-readed vehicle just finished testing their parachutes. All right And it was the Orion vehicle So Orion is being developed by NASA and we have some beautiful footage here of them testing their parachutes This test occurred at September 12th at 1500 UTC. Now, where did this happen at because that looks like a really sparse place out there. Yeah, it's the mythical lands of Arizona Space Mike's quite familiar with that area. Mike did this land in your backyard? Not quite not quite. This is at the the US Army's Yuma Proving Ground and it's a good Ways outside of Phoenix where I'm based. Okay, so you couldn't claim it if it landed in your backyard Didn't see it. No. No, otherwise. I would have definitely had salvage rights Yeah, I mean I would have put like like a bedroom in there or something on anyways How do you do a parachute test Lisa because I mean that looks like they just like chucked it But I don't I don't know exactly how they chucked it. That's kind of what they did You know You could launch it on a rocket and see if it comes back down But then you know, what if your parachutes don't work you're gonna break your test article So what they did is they threw it in the back of a C-17 aircraft And they attached it to a crate with a lot of different specific sets of parachutes to orientate Stabilize it and kind of make sure it was like pointing in the correct direction and they Deployed at a certain sequence as well. So so it's using parachutes. Yep What happens if a parachute fails? Well, luckily with this Orion parachute test built into the system is redundancy. So There are 11 parachutes in total and they deploy in a sequence of three two three three the first three are They are the forward bay covers, so they pull off the heat shield The next two are like gonna slow down the article They're the drogue shoots Then you have three pilot shoots that deploy to help pull out the main shoots And then finally the three main parachutes that you guys saw in that video there And if you lose one drogue shoot or one main parachute, the Orion will still be okay Don't ask me what happens if you lose more than one of either of those things Maybe that's where propulsive landing might come in handy in the future But the the system passed the flying colors for that specific set up that they have and they've been doing a bunch of tests Like I think space like you were telling me the other day like they've been testing the system for a really long time Do you know how many tests in total that they've done? I Know that they've been doing tests out there since at least 2005 because the Orion spacecraft was originally part of the Constellation program that George W. Bush put into place And then that was canceled in in 2008 or rather in 2010 But the Orion capsule survived and has become you know The way that human astronauts are going to fly on the space launch system and go to hopefully a bunch of exotic places in space And go into deep space so without counting the the parachute tests that were done under the Constellation program because I'm not exactly sure since then there have officially been 25 tests That of these parachute tests and it seemed like every other month they were doing a parachute test It's been crazy obviously hasn't been that frequent But it seems like they've been doing a lot more and I think that they even did individual tests Like of the drogue parachutes and the pilot parachutes was even smaller mock-ups or even just like a dummy payload That was in the same shape but were not the same size not the full-size mock-up with the same amount of weight as The Orion capsule would have which is what we saw for this final test That was a full-up test of all of all 11 parachutes with An Orion capsule that would be the Around the same amount of weight even with astronauts and Yeah, car go on board the good thing is that this final test kind of it solidifies the system as they have it works It's ready to go now. We just need to get the rest of Orion going So that they can do the exploration mission one with Orion on top of the SLS It's gonna go around the moon in 2020 and those parachutes are gonna give everybody a soft landing And here's the kicker a soft landing is a 32 kilometers per hour or 20 miles per hour. That's defined as a successful landing So they can even do that with two shoots. Yes. Okay. Very cool. And you know redundancy very important It has happened before where a parachute has failed coming back in on Apollo 15 They lost a shoot so they only came down under two shoots Writing the ride at Maddox on Shattered me even he called it so even with Orion I know that they had two failures during these parachute tests out at Yuma and that was just part of part of the process Absolutely now how I think that that was done on purpose to figure out how many shoots can we get away with and still Land safely. So yeah, very very cool. So you were talking about exploration mission two or one I'm sorry the circum lunar flight and Mike you've got like a moon bonanza to talk with us about today There's a lot coming up. So Mike roll it away. Let's let's see what we got to talk about Well first off the thing that I'm really excited about and all it is is really just a tweet But a year and a half after announcing plans to send to commercial Tourists basically on a flight around the moon spacex has given us an update as to whether or not that plan would still happen Originally, the plan was going to be to fly these these paying passengers on a dragon capsule flying on a Falcon heavy But the tweet that was announced this week on Thursday is pretty much saying that a Passenger an unnamed passenger is going to be flying on the big falcon spaceship Which I'm gonna be calling the big lunar spaceship for this particular mission and oh my gosh I am so excited about this I am so excited about this the commercial spacex mission around the moon is still on a lot of people thought that it was over No, that wasn't gonna happen. So I'm excited to see it happen We don't know yet who the passenger or passengers are going to be and whether or not it's simply gonna be a loop around The moon on a free return trajectory like the Apollo 8 style mission like you mentioned or whether or not Falcon The big falcon spaceship is going to you know do an a burn to stay in orbit around the moon Or even attempt a landing that would be great. They won't attempt to land in on this mission I'm sure but makes me wonder if they would have the capability to do it once this this mission actually buys So I am just I am really excited about this and we don't know When they're going to attempt this mission But SpaceX is going to be having a live web stream on Monday That's we all need to be tuning into it because there's gonna be giving updates I'm sure about this mission and updates to the the big falcon rocket and the big falcon spaceship and I am really excited about that. So be sure to tune into the SpaceX live webcast this Monday to get more information but With this whole moon bonanza thing that's going on I also just wanted to talk about how NASA and JAXA have formally signed an agreement to cooperate on the moon and they're calling it the collaborative efforts for lunar exploration and beyond and NASA has invited Japan to be a part of a lot of their lunar exploration programs Such as the lunar gateway and with the gateway. They're already going to be combined Providing certain capabilities and certain technologies They're going to be building a habitation module in cooperation with the European Space Agency But NASA also is recognized that they could have a lot of capability with their HTV X a Upgraded version of their HTV vehicle which flies to the International Space Station and which will hopefully be seen a The 7th HTV mission flying to the space station in the next couple of days Hopefully anyway, there could be a delay on that But beyond that the agencies also are looking at the Space Launch System and the Orion capsule as we were talking about earlier And how JAXA can provide systems and provide payloads so that they can have a bunch of Future missions to the moon. They are looking at their ways that they can get to their future Future path to the moon, especially looking at robotic spacecraft landers and rovers That's a big part of aside from the gateway the components that they would be adding to the gateway That's the big part of what JAXA wants to be able to contribute and take part in with NASA So I'm really excited for for those possibilities and now that makes for that makes that makes pretty much everyone That's NASA the European Space Agency the Japanese Space Agency and Roscosmos who are all going to contribute together for the Lunar Gateway and Go to the surface with at least robot robots But eventually to have the goal of sending humans there as well And I'm really excited for all these pieces that are starting to come together Yeah, and the gateway seems like it's just really taken off since the beginning of this year It seems like it kind of stalled for a while and then all of a sudden, you know six months ago Just it's got all the momentum behind it It really does and seeing that that support from from the international community has been really exciting for me, too I mean the European Space Agency has added a science airlock and this this whole Different module that will be able to add extra communications and refueling capability to the station as well And that was something that we talked about last week with our guests a little bit They're calling it the e-spirit module JAXA of course is going to be supplying a bunch of their different hardware And hopefully we'll be able to have their cargo vehicle the htvx be able to come there The russians are talking about donating several modules to the gateway modules that would be That they've already been building for their future lower orbit space station And instead just cancel those plans and contribute these models to the gateway It's like they want to have an airlock for astronauts They would also want to have a science airlock and they also want to have a habitation module that uses expandable technology So just seeing the response that we've been getting from our international space station partners has been really exciting for me And seeing how all of these different pieces are are growing and more and more capabilities and opportunities are starting to appear So i'm really excited for this. There's there's lots of of cons to this as well I've only been talking about the positives to this. So me me and ben are going to be having some sort of Debate here soon as to whether or not we should even do this whether or not we even should build Yeah, a idea slobber knocker between you two both just duking it out With everything going on there. So i'm curious about who you think like going back to the spacex Who do you think is the passenger that's going and that question extends to the chat room and everyone watching on demand to Have a guess and we'll see if anyone picked it right if if we find out on monday I hope we do and if you got it right we might feature you in next show I have two theories as to who the the passenger can be one of the passengers might be james cameron the film director because He has previously tried to sign up with space adventures for a flight around the moon a similar flight like this Um, but with a sole use rocket there was going to be a special module a special habitation module that was going to be built And attached to a sole use and would do a lunar eight or an apollo eight Excuse me style fly by around the moon and james cameron was the primary customer for that although Russia didn't really do any work on the habitation module and the whole thing is just kind of up in the air um, the other person who I think might be the customer was sarah brightman's backup a Japanese business businessman, um, mimoto. I believe is his last name. So satoshi mimoto. I believe is his name He has signed up also through space adventures to do a tourist flight to the international space station Although I don't know why he didn't take over as sarah brightman's backup It might have had to do something with the scheduling for the sole use flights anyway But I have a feeling that it's one of those two people that's that that it might be sorry for the long answer I'm kind of with you might give me a satoshi takamatsu With that takamatsu. Yeah, it's all good. Um, I know there was another I know there was like other people were saying Uh, that there was another uh businessman from japan who was looking at things potentially You skate uh, yeah, I can't think of it. I don't remember his last name If the chat room has it pop it in there, we'll throw it up so that we can uh, remember that Everyone's saying jeff bezos Yeah, jeff's just gonna take a picture of it I don't think it's gonna be bezos unless it's like a corporate espionage mission or something like that I don't know. Yeah, who knows we'll find out. Um, yeah He's gonna go on his own rocket. He's he's building his own. He can yeah. Yeah, why wouldn't elon go on his own rocket? Didn't he say something like he's not gonna fly unless like he's confident space x will be able to continue Like if you know worst case now, the rocket like blows up and there's no more elon Like I think he wants to wait. All right Okay, fine. Just wait until everything works well. So All right Safety first. Yeah safety first very very important rule one. Yes rule number one if you know the rules of tomorrow That's kind of important So lisa the clock is ticking for a program that we Dearly love here at tomorrow Yeah, well speaking of you know bfr and where it's headed to moon and then to mars Everyone's kind of talking these days about going to mars But if we want to send humans there then we need to know as much about the martian environment as we can Before we send the people and so to do that we sent rovers and orbiters to understand the martian environment But one of our poor little rovers opportunity Maybe on its way out So unfortunately, we haven't been able to communicate with opportunity for a while now because there was a giant martian dust storm and That that's not good for a rover. Yeah, it's not particularly great yeah The dust storm is by way of the safety mode, but Sorry, what was that space mic? Oh, I was just saying it went into standby mode. It went into safety mode. Yeah, that's right. Yes That's right. Yeah, but it used to solar panels to have enough Power so that it can run things like the heaters and the heaters are important for keeping the batteries warm because If the batteries get too cold Then we're going to have enough power to wake up the little rover Once enough dust clears out of the atmosphere and and charges those batteries to enough of a level where it can Reboot itself and reboot its computers out of that safe mode So is like with curiosity here is curiosity at risk at any point No, so with curiosity, it doesn't actually use solar panels Curiosity used something called a radio thermal isotopic generator or rtg and that uses basically nuclear power to generate heat which generates electricity Which is what it uses for all its electrical systems on board and the mars 2020 rover that's going to launch in 2020 Is also going to be using it rtg. So it's not going to have those problems. So, you know fingers crossed Um We're not going to have this problem moving forward But if there's the whole thing of using nuclear stuff on other Rovers, but the dots can get pretty bad like you guys can see in this image here. It's completely covering the solar panels Um, yeah, this is a previous one from 2007 if I remember yeah, and these guys were launched a long time ago Right, so these these were launched like back in 2002 2003 So the solar panel technology back there was not nearly as efficient as it is now And so you're already using like low efficiencies all panels They're really old because this mission was supposed to only last 90 days and yet opportunity is still going Sadly, we lost spirit the twin rover quite a few years ago Um, and now it's covered in dust. So like all the odds are stacked against it right now So how do you check to see if a rover is alive because if you're like tens of millions hundreds of millions of miles away It's not like you could just go there with a rag and you know dust it off And then you're a you're a okay and ready to go. How are they going to keep in touch with opportunity when it finally If it does actually ping us back. Yeah, so nasa kind of came up with like this plan Where they wanted to have a 45 day window of active listening And that just means that they're actively pinging the spacecraft Trying to get it to wake up and if it has working up, you know, send a return signal And they're doing that using the deep space network. So here's an image of the cambera deep space communications complex Giant antenna dish down there and they're using that to communicate and ping the rover But you know, it takes people to operate the the signals and to man the operations But the dsn, you know is also listening to all other interplanetary spacecraft We have out there. So you can't just keep clogging up the deep space network trying to Get to opportunity. So they have a 45 day window Of listening to the rover and trying to get it to wake up And then they're going to switch to just passive listening to see if it wakes up on its own And there's something that's going to happen on mars though coming up that may sort of give opportunity a little more favor In its odds of waking back up. Yeah, so the last couple times that opportunity and spirit its twin beforehand got covered in dust Miraculously, there were dust storms that like spun around and and cleaned the dust off the solar panels And then it was able to to generate enough power and it was totally fine to keep going on its mission So it's not dust storm season yet. It's going to happen a little later in the earth year But hopefully we get a dust storm that comes around and cleans the panels and opportunity can wake up again And the dust is starting to fall out of the atmosphere as well. The dust storm is ending so There's a measure in the martian atmosphere of like how dusty it is And that's a measure called tau and the tau level was greater than 10 during the storm But nasa kind of set this threshold of if the level is below 1.5 That's when we're going to start our 45 day listening window So they took two consecutive measurements of 1.5, which means dust was coming out of the atmosphere That's kind of why they decided to start listening back for opportunity Is there anything else mortals can do about this? Yeah Well, a lot of people on twitter and social media have been saying like why only a 45 day window for opportunity? Like why are you picking an arbitrary day to start counting and like this rover has inspired so many people? Like we can't just give up on it So people are kind of showing their support by using the hashtag wake up oppie So if you kind of want to show your support for the little rover that could as well But you can always tweet that out or leave a comment below as well talking about, you know Why you want this rover to keep on going and why it's important to you And hopefully we can show nasa that that we want this rover to keep going and that we think it's worth the investment So wake up oppie. We're we're listening for you think it's crossed you can do it So exceptional people working on that So great great news stories for both of you and speaking of exceptional people that we have We oh, gee, I did want to bring things kind of full circle here spacevogel actually brought up in the chat room that Opportunity was actually launched on a delta 2 by the way. Oh, yeah, there you go So there you go sort of our theme saying goodbye to things today. That was ominous. All right, so We're going to go and help and thank our escape velocity citizens These folks have given us $10 or more per episode and they help make the show happen Thank you for supporting us here at tomorrow And if you would like to help the shows here at tomorrow head on over to patreon.com slash tmro see all the cool stuff that you get with that and We are now going to go into our calendar break and after that break We've got sarah who's got a super cool interview talking about space debris and how to clean it up So stay tuned. There's more tomorrow right after this So I get the opportunity to talk with chris blacker b coo of astroscale, so we're going to find out Well, what you guys are up to over there and you are joining us from japan, right? That's right sarah. All right Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us Sure great to be here. All right, so All right, let's just jump into this astroscale. What are you guys doing? So astroscale was founded about five years ago by a japanese IT entrepreneur and he was out He had passion for space name is nobu okada And he was kind of looking into what was going on in space He went to a lot of these conferences and he found that people were talking about space debris space trash Which consists of everything from small specks of paint That fell off of satellites to old defunct satellites or used rocket bodies And he found that there was a lot of people talking about the issue And nobody that was really addressing it from a business perspective So about five years ago he took the jump in And decided to start a company that was focused on the business of cleaning up space And so that's what we do. We want to take this issue of space debris Which is uh, we can talk about it, but a very serious issue for basically all of us on earth And go apply business case sensibilities to cleaning it up so it sounds like A crazy idea just because space is a bit of an unregulated area And it's it's a bit hard to find that business case, but over the last five years We've successfully re-raised Uh over 50 million u.s. Dollars and we now have a global team that is focused on solving this issue That is awesome. Okay, so So what is your job at astroscale? So I um, yeah, I I joined just about a year ago. So, um, I was formerly at nasa. I was with nasa for about 14 years Uh And I was focused on international partnerships Uh, it's kind of strategic planning uh and uh relationships for the agency For then the last five years of my time at nasa. I was the uh nasa attache at the u.s. Embassy in tokyo so nasa has um three people who are the Representatives liaisons for nasa overseas one is in paris one is in moscow and one is in tokyo in tokyo and I Covered nasa relationships with japan china south korea southeast asia And I did that for five years and I was meant to go back to the u.s. Last summer And I knew no blue the astroscale ceo from my time here and we started talking and uh, and we talked about this opportunity to come on as coo The company at the time had a little over 20 people full in part time And nobu was really looking to grow the company. Um, he had just opened an office in the uk And was looking to expand to be more international And so he brought me on as coo to look at kind of overall management of the company and strategic planning As we tried to internationalize so since that time now we've we've grown the uk office now has about 10 people We have about 30 35 people here in tokyo um nobu and some of the other uh senior folks sit in singapore And then we also have a presence in washington dc with air who's part-time helping us out with uh business development and space policy so We've kind of grown from Almost doubled in size the last year or so so we're close to 50 people now globally and Looking at various mission lines. So i'm there to kind of look at the management overall and strategic development of the company Wow, thank you for taking the time to talk with us today Yeah all right, so Well, you said what space junk is So what technologies are you going to be looking at to bring that debris? Are you going to be bringing it back to earth or are you going to be? What way are you going to be bringing it back to earth? I guess is the question Yeah, so it's a it's it's such a it's such a complex issue the whole idea of space debris And I should probably start by saying how how does it even impact us and and it impacts us in In so many ways this issue is basically because the the the The the junk in space the debris in space is just growing more and more um From 1957 uh, you know before the first satellite was launched when there was nothing up there man made human made Until now when there's hundreds of millions of tiny Pieces of debris up to huge pieces of debris that are in space all of which have the potentiality to impact Uh an active satellite And we use these active satellites every day you we've used them I'm up it's it's early morning here in japan and as you can see we're already using Satellite technology to have this conversation. So without satellites Our lives would be completely different Unrecognizable we use it for banking for communications for disaster monitoring in response for for just understanding the climate so The orbital environment is almost just like another Place on earth it is um It is something that we rely on every day and I think we need to shift our mindset to say You know the orbital environment is something that we need And so we need to protect the same way that we want to protect the terrestrial environment From degradation we need to protect the orbital environment Because it is such an integral part of our daily lives So to solve that issue that's so important to all of us you mentioned the technology sarah It's actually it's a it's a three A three issue problem. It's like a venn diagram of issues, right? So one big circle is the technology Need to solve that technology problem and the second one is the policy How do we address these policy issues in an area that's fairly unregulated? And the third one is the business case. How do we find uh money to pay for this? How do we find customers to pay for it? So you ask about the technology and I can talk about that a little bit first But really all three of those problems are interrelated and we could have the greatest technology ever And find the way to to solve it from a technical perspective But if we don't address the policy issues and the business case issues, it's not going to work All right, and that's the same with the other two areas We can we can look at the the policy and and focus on that But if we don't look at the other two, it's not going to work And really that's what a lot of people have been doing with space debris is looking at just the policy And there's some technology development, but no one was looking at that third circle at business case And that's what we're doing. Okay. Um, so that that's a it's not really answering your question That's okay. We can do this in three parts, but that was more of a broad overview of what we're doing. Cool All right, so uh technology you're working on that addressing it in a way that other people haven't But uh the business side, I guess I'm I'm kind of intrigued by that so Would you be able once you get the technology and the policy addressed? Would you be able to reuse the space junk? Would you be able to transform it into some way make it into a profitable business? By building things on orbit So that that's the that's the the dream, right? That's that that's that next step Is to is to be able to pick it up bring it back to some recycling facility And repurpose it You know recycle the the the materials that are on there for future use at this point in time We're not there. So right now on the technology side We're in the middle of designing and developing our technology demonstration mission called lcd end of life services by astro scale demonstration So we're working on that right now lcd and hoping to launch in the next 18 months or so. Uh, yeah, there's an image of it right now. So, um, we're working on building that I have also, uh A one-sixth scale model as well here when it comes back to me But um, so we're working on developing lcd right now And lcd is going to launch with this is the chaser satellite or elsa satellite It's going to have a small Target on the end of it and when it gets up into orbit, it's going to separate Three different times. So first time it'll separate and then it'll stay stable And then it'll come together find it and attach and then the second time It'll separate and the target will tumble and then it'll come and it'll synchronize its motion and then Stabilize and the third time it'll separate and it will go farther away So it'll get lost and so the chaser will find the target attached to it And then after all these, uh, these demonstrations And burn up in the atmosphere will bring it down re-orbit it and burn it up So that's how we're working on the this technology to develop it right now. We're not at that point That you're talking about where we could bring it back to another space station or something and and repurpose the The materials on board But space mike and I were talking about that earlier before we started and that's something he wants to do too So maybe we'll have to talk in the future with space mike about his potential venture All right, so your satellite had to bring its own test junk with it Is that going back to that policy issue? You were talking of earlier Yeah, well, so that's a bit easier right because we don't have to talk to a third party Initially to do our test demonstration our technology demonstration What we are looking at though is additional mission lines where we can test it With a satellite that's already in orbit And so we're talking to some of these uh, the large constellations that are going to be launching about wanting to do some kind of test When they get their satellites in orbit where we can attach to them and prove this capability That we can attach to and and deorbit, but for the near term Yeah, it it makes sense that we just bring our own up with us. So we don't worry about the policy LCD is primarily our way to test the technology now as we go through with lcd We're also involved in lots of policy conversations. We're also talking to lots of potential customers So we're we're we're covering both but really lcd is is our test of our technology And then on the side we're doing the the policy and the in the business case side too So, um You mentioned that you were kind of looking at this as uh space conservation like we're doing with We've gotten ocean cleanup here in los angeles this morning So you'd be kind of doing that would you be approaching other governments as if this is a protect our Environment our space environment kind of situation and how do you go about selling that as a profitable business? Yeah, that's a great question and it's one we talk about all the time. So we're really looking at two different business cases sarah We're looking at um one is called end of life services, right and basically that means Don't add any more trash to space That's that's that's one line. So let's start there, right? Let's let's not increase the amount of trash that's already up there So that's our end of life services. The second one is our active debris removal And that means going up and grabbing the debris that's already up there and bringing it back down Uh now the the image you you just showed there that That's um, you know, it's not that bad. It's not like we're playing a game of frogger to like We passed every piece of debris and space space is still big But it could get to that point And so that's our concern to try to to focus on both of these issues Focus on don't add any more debris and bring the debris down So for the first one, we're talking to commercial companies primarily companies that are planning to launch tens hundreds potentially thousands of satellites into this same orbit and telling them, hey before you launch Put a docking a deorbit mechanism on your satellite so that a third party can come up and grab it and bring it down It's the same way that a car has a hitch on the back, right? So if it if it fails going up, you know, highway one group the pacific coast highway in california A truck could come triple a could come and attach to it and take it out of commission So what we're proposing is to have something like that Attached to all satellites that launch so that we can go up and take it out of commission once it if it fails So that's the one side. That's the end of life services where we're focused on the commercial companies your question sarah was about the Getting governments to buy into the environmental cleanup aspect of it. And yeah, we're talking to governments You know, it was governments that put up most of the most of the stuff that's trash now They're the ones who were responsible for putting it up there So, you know, they should be responsible for bringing it down So we're talking to them about missions that would go and remove some of the really big pieces Because there's some huge pieces like size of a city bus type pieces that are up there And obviously the larger the piece the more possibility that it could hit an act And it happens then potentiality for Further debris And so we are talking to a lot of governments, you know, creative ways to fund Missions that would go up there and bring down some of these old pieces of debris So we're looking at both business lines talking both to the commercial companies and talking to the governments to try to find a way to To to not any more debris and bring down the debris that's already there. All right, very cool. Okay, so um With this the space junk that's not government made that is in private industry that is already up there Is that policy? I guess what is the space environment policy like right now? What kind of upward battle are you fighting? Who what are the rules against you just going up there and starting a clean sweep right now? Hmm. So when somebody launches a satellite, it's basically theirs until it comes back down into the orbits So having to get that permission Uh, it can be difficult and it's it's difficult to get from the commercial companies and even more difficult to get from the governments and so it it's It's tough to to to find that permission. There's also security issues Obviously if we're creating a satellite that can find and attach to another satellite Some countries get worried that it could be used For not peaceful purposes. We are fully using ours for peaceful purposes We're only there to clean up the environment But we have to discuss this with governments and we have to address this issue And so that's one of the other policy things that that we're having to focus on and and the space area is Pretty much on regular some people call it global commons, but it's you know, that's Different people use different words, but really it's a it's an area that there isn't a jurisdiction There's not a orbital traffic cop. That's sitting up there and prepared to you know Find people for leaving trash on the highway And so we need to we need to work with a consortium of groups from the un to to uh world economic Industry We lost you a little bit in there. Could you repeat that insurance company? We lost you a little bit in there. Could you repeat that last section? Sorry. Yeah, I just say we're talking to a lot of different groups. We have to Pull together basically an international consortium Of interested parties from the united nations From a variety of you know the countries that launched these satellites and rockets in the past Usually, you know europe us china russia Japan talking to all of those countries to think about the best way to bring things down and to and to do future Licensing and then talking to all these international groups. So that is all about the policy issue of those three main concerns that I talked about Right. Um, so yeah, it's it's challenging on every level But we think what we see is a trend toward acceptance by the governments that this is an issue This issue of environmental sustainability Uh, it's it's a real concern just like it is down here People are concerned with the environment in orbit. And so governments are starting to buy into it they're starting to develop policies and Assign budgets to potential missions where they would go and bring down some of their defunct satellites or their old rocket bodies But we're also seeing it from the commercial side the commercial companies recognize that We're on the the cusp of basically a new space age. There's a democratization of space So they recognize that the orbital environment is only going to get more crowded And while most of many of those satellites obviously are providing Benefit when they fail In orbit and they're not able to be be orbited They are a threat and so companies want to bring those down from a business continuity perspective So companies recognize that this is their This is their revenue stream. This orbital highway is their revenue stream So they're going to want to bring these pieces of debris down to maintain business continuity Governments recognize that it's environmental issue. So they want to bring these satellites down to maintain environmental sustainability So on both of these issues is where we're focused right now All right, I'm really relieved to hear that people Countries and companies alike are being are so receptive to the concept of conservation before it becomes an issue That's amazing. Yeah It is and you're surprised that that is warranted because it is it is tough It's always hard to to look at a future problem Right, there's there's enough current problems that people say why are we looking at this future problem? And it happens here all the time. We see it in environmental issues on earth all the time So it the argument continues to be an uphill battle. Sarah. I mean, it's it's not it's not an easy one, but When we're explaining the high risk or I'd say the high impact of uh, of an impact of it Of us Impacting another satellite. What could happen with that is each each impact that happens could create thousands of more pieces of debris Which has the potential to have thousands of more impacts Right and what could what it could lead to is something called the the kessler syndrome Which was postulated by a nasa scientist in the late 70s actually who said as more and more satellites get into orbit You're going to reach a tipping point where if there's an accident there's going to become a cascading level of debris And debris will just increase To the point where we can't use the orbits anymore And so we need to address that problem before it happens and that's what that's what Okay, well, um at the moment. Uh, so are there any So we've got a question from the chat room space taro wants to know are there any laws or taxes right now governing satellite operators? Is there anything that is in place at the moment to either help you guys get going or Hold operators accountable so right basically except So Satellite we lost you at the very beginning here. Could you repeat that first section? Sorry about that. No worries So, uh, yeah, so i'd say there's a there's a basically accepted principle that if a company or a country launches a satellite Come back down, uh, and and deorbit within 25 years Uh, this inter inter agency, uh debris coordination committee basically a collection of space agencies from around the world Has put forward this concept which has been accepted by operators government and commercial operators And so what satellite operators will do is they'll make sure that when their satellite has finished its useful end of life It will have enough fuel to Push itself down into a if it's in low earth orbit, which is below about 2 000 kilometers It'll push itself down into a lower orbit where it will burn up quickly in the atmosphere If it's in a high orbit a geo orbit, uh, 30 000 or so kilometers It will go up to what's called the graveyard orbit It'll move up a little bit So kind of get out of the way of the rest of the uh of the satellite So there are those kind of laws in place for those accepted norms in place What happens though at a certain orbit so at about 800 to 1 000 or so kilometers Up in low earth orbit if a satellite fails It's not going to naturally degrade for centuries Probably thousand years and so it's up there for generations millennia potential And so bringing that down is really important because that's just a constant threat If it's at a low orbit like the space station is at about 400 kilometers And if the space station wasn't boosted the space station always uses propulsion to boost itself up if it wasn't boosted It would come down within A year or so it would come down fairly quickly and so Where so the the satellite offers at a low earth orbits basically can come down within that 25 year rule Oh just on its own just naturally even if their satellite fails right where we're concerned as if it fails in that higher orbits Up to about 800 to 1200 kilometers up. It's not going to be coming down anytime soon And so that's that's in terms of following regulations. That's what companies generally do As far as a tax there really isn't anything right now. There isn't a pool that people put into before they launched on that Here's here's the money if I bring it down. I'll get my money back If I don't then use this money to go and and bring down a piece of debris But that's one of the concepts that we're roughly talking about right now as we think about the business case of this Awesome. Okay. So we've got another question from the chat room Trebles wants to know what's the largest piece of debris Elsa D can grapple and deorbit at the moment with the technology You've got it today So the the piece of debris that Elsa D will grab our demonstration mission is fairly small 15 to 20 kilograms It's going to be a small piece that we're testing. Okay, so we're testing the rendezvous and docking technologies is what we're really doing How big that we can grab? we're Thinking that we're going to be able to grab between 150 to 400 kilogram piece of debris We're talking about how that would be but a lot of the Satellites that are launching with these large constellations that are going to be going up over the next five years or so They're in about that range 150 to 400 kilograms. And so we're focused to Our technology on being able to attach and reorbit Satellites of about that size as we think about bringing down some of these two or on Funk satellites or pocket bodies. We need to rethink about scaling up The the bus capability of future elses or adr active debris removal missions We need to think about scaling that up a little bit more But right now Focused on about 150 to 400 kilograms or so. Okay, so you I think I caught you saying reorbit as well as deorbit So you're not just going to be a removed debris but you might also be kind of the space mechanics putting the Putting the craft back in the orbit It was supposed to be if something goes wrong with its propulsion system So what you're referring to there probably is in orbit servicing a bit more and that's that's not what we're doing I I use those terms and I probably shouldn't do it that gets confusing. I apologize when I'm when I'm saying deorbit I'm saying bring it all the way down. So bring it all the way orbit Sorry Bring it all the way down into the atmosphere So then it burns up in the atmosphere Reorbit would be bringing it down to a low enough orbit that within A month or two or a few months it would do it would deorbit on itself. So okay It's a bit of a technicality and so it's a bit confusing But really in this case, I mean bringing it down so that it will burn up in the atmosphere soon All right Is is our goal But the in orbit servicing side is a big deal as well People are talking about and companies are looking at doing in orbit servicing also We're doing what what you're referencing there, Sarah, which is attaching to and then fixing a satellite or putting more fuel in it That is another potential business that's out there Ours what we're focused on is a reliable low cost solution to removing the debris first Long term there may be some other opportunities for in orbit servicing as well But those satellites are or by just by definition going to be larger more expensive more capable We're looking at a targeted service to go up and grab that debris and get it out of the way So it doesn't hurt anything else Awesome. Okay, and we've got another question from the chat room. Hanny's war warp wants to know is is there enough debris out there For a long-term business model Unfortunately, yeah Well fortunately for us, but unfortunately for the environment So there's there's enough up there in terms of large debris already That we would need to go up and remove a couple pieces of a year Over the next several decades to to make sure that we sustain So to have a sustainable orbit that we um That we that we that we keep it at a level where we're not risking Having a high risk of a collision which could lead to that kessler effect What is changing the economics of this business though is this I mentioned earlier democratization of space with All of these sorry we lost you there launch vehicle So could you repeat that first that first jump again? Wait a second Sure, sure in my back in my back. Yeah um, what's what's making changing the economics of this business is that all of these um Companies that are now going to be launching small satellites all of these launch vehicle companies that are offering new on-demand launch vehicle service There's so many out there dozens out there that are going to be offering Launch services on demand both small launch vehicles And larger ones that are going to be launching, you know, tens to hundreds of satellites So many out there right now and so much so many companies and and and institutions that are Building satellites now the cost of developing a satellite or building a launch vehicle has gotten so much less expensive That more and more people are doing it and the more and more people do it the more We're relying on these satellites as well to get earth images and understand the climate as we get into issues like IOT and self-driving cars. We're going to need it even more We're going to need constant connectivity and so there's all of these satellites that are going to be launched in the future So it's not just what's currently up there Is that able to sustain a business as the as the person asked on the chat room, but it's what's In the near term and so it's a combination of what's up there now Along with what's coming which really makes this a sustainable business for us Awesome. All right. So my last question for you is where can people find out more about your company? Where can is after-scale hiring if we want to get involved in cleaning up the space environment? What can we do? We are always looking for more space sweepers So everybody so both as a hiring and just as a supporter, right? We want more people to understand what a concern this is and what we're doing to try to solve it So, um, you can find out more. We have a website astroscale.com. We have Um, it's all out there Sorry, we have a we have a website after scale Astroscale.com we have a twitter handle at astroscale on facebook page So all of that information is out there We go if people are going to conferences will be at the international astronautical congress in germany We're we're always out there. So if people are interested, you know, we're always out there available to talk We're growing we we think that there's going to be business out there and a variety of levels So if people are interested, certainly they should they should get in touch with us as we try to continue to grow this company And yeah, we're always looking for for good Good people to good engineers good people to talk about the business to work on the business. So Yeah, we're always open and and also just open for more supporters. So come join be a space sweeper All right, you got me sold. So i've got a couple questions the standard questions that we ask all of our guests So all right, what is your favorite space mission past present or future? Well, my future favorite space mission obviously is lcd All right, so I think I can I can answer that question, right? all right, um, well, but I No, let me just go on this. So I guess future Jw james web space telescope is going to be awesome When I work with nasa, you know, obviously we the hubble was such a cool mission And we talked about hubble all the time But jw is this going to be so much more capable and so much bigger and what we're going to learn about the universe from a satellite that's Way out of the Lagrange point and so much bigger. It's just going to be awesome. So I I can't wait to see What jw does but as I start talking about this, I I I can't name one So I should just stop her because there's gonna be too many more All right. Okay. So next one is human or robot exploration of the cosmos Both Yeah, sorry to sorry to split the split it in half, but it's got to be both I mean, so it's again 14 years at nasa This was a common question and and I know people sometimes split into two sides But you're not going to be able to really Um, sorry, we lost you again there robotic missions. Uh, sorry. Sorry. So you need the robotic missions Obviously the low cost lower cost lower risk to human life. Obviously those are necessary But the human missions are they're incredible and I I'd have these conversations with people who who sided on the robotic side And I said so the next time a human lands on the moon, you're just not going to watch You don't you're not going to care about the human landing, you know the moon again And obviously they're going to I mean the the excitement of having people doing this stuff. Um, can't be measured so Both And where should we go next? We're sending people and robots. Where to next? Well, after we clean up space, of course So first we'll settle on that and then after that because we're going to need to clean up space as well to get to these places You know, if as the orbits become more more more uh congested, uh, we're going to get through there So to get to the moon to get to mars, um That's a tough question. Uh, you know I the the moon is the is the easier option. It's it's obviously closer, um We've been there that's one for talking Humans I'd say the moon would be the next exciting step. Um, I'd like to see that happen So it would be nice to watch another person put foot step foot on the moon and to see and to see someone That's not a a man's step foot on the moon in america man. It'll be great to see a woman there Lucky 13 or other countries And finally why space? Um We can't not stop exploring it is so exciting and not just the exploration but the utility So the exploration the inspiration of space, uh Again, it can't be measured. Uh and and we got from apollo, uh and the space era of the 60s is is basically Fully informed where we are today the people that were inspired by those missions are the ones that are currently changing the world There have been changing the world from a technology perspective over the last 20 years That inspiration that excitement of space. Um it it again, it's it's So, um exciting and it can't be measured. So, uh, I don't think we could uh, we could stop as humanity With the exploration and utilization so it's and it's not just the exploration. It's the utilization. We're using space every day and so We can't not we can't not be there I like it. All right. Thank you so much for talking with us today. This is I'm so excited for cleaning up space Great, uh, I look forward to talking more anytime you have questions. Let me know Thanks so much for your time. Thank you chris blocker be from blacker be from Um From master scale. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks so much. Thank you so much So now we get to thank not just chris, but also our escape velocity citizens These have these people have donated ten dollars an episode to help us bring you tomorrow All right, and when we come back we will have questions and comments from last week's show science It both draws us together And tears us apart Brings discoveries to cure us And threaten us It is neither good nor evil It is what we decide to make of it. There is so much more to learn And we are curious together let's explore the science of tomorrow Hello everyone and welcome back and now we're in the final segment of 11 dot 36 Where we take your comments from last week's show and we discuss them and we talk about them a little bit and last week's show We had mike lewis the coo of nano racks and oh boy. That was that was a really cool interview Because there's just so much that came down through that interview And to kind of talk about that a little bit Our first comment comes from michael brown on youtube and it says great interview I had no idea nano racks had done so many payloads I think nano racks are doing such amazing stuff like mike was talking about how Like they don't have to just fly science experiments. They can fly like things that you want to take up So, you know, whether that's a collectible item and then you give it up for educational purposes or like a bag of like Plant seeds tomato seeds and you take it up with nano racks and you bring it back down And then you give it up to schools and they can run their own experiments It's so cool and then but then they also have like the hard science stuff So they have like an experiment that they'll go through with nano racks and sit down with you know Like a mission manager and work out what are all the things that could go wrong with this experiment And how can we like put it in a you know a ziploc bag within a ziploc bag within a ziploc bag So anything spills nothing is going to spill on the space station like that is just They're enabling so many science experiments to get to space and that's like something really close to my heart Enabling people to learn more about the world that we live in which is pretty cool. Yeah, definitely Definitely. Yeah, and I love that They're not just enabling getting other people's hardware into space They're actually putting their own hardware into space like the kubesat deployer And their eventual airlock that they're working on as well Which we talked about a little bit in that interview last week So if you guys want to know more about that definitely go back on there and take a listen So it was a really interesting episode with that So onto our second comment from peter arnold also on youtube, which is great episode guys very interesting interview to watch Just one suggestion when explaining the set of five standard questions at the end of the interview to the guest You might want to say to them that they are very broad questions and your answer is just your opinion As well as telling them the usual thing that there are no right or wrong answers Well a little bit of a development Yeah, we're changing it up. We're changing it up. So the the plan is to kind of Move towards There's two options, right? We haven't really decided because you know ben always changes his mind on things But one is to take away like with the four Questions just use the why space question because I think it's the one that everyone kind of enjoys asking the most I don't know about you like out of those four questions, which one you like the most but I do like what spacecraft I think we get a More diverse answer to what's your favorite mission? Someone came up with a specific shuttle mission once and That was out of nowhere and I loved that and her reason it was so close to her heart that That one launch had made an impact on her and I like that as well It's cool when you give people the opportunity to to say something very specific like that So we want to take that as well as like the whole premise of learning more about the guest and combine it into like A space lightning question round Yes Cool. Yeah space interrogation So you see us changing that and mixing it up and uh, maybe next week or the week after we might Do our first demo for it probably an after dark. So, you know Check out after dark you can find it on youtube or if you want early access to after dark You can also support us as a patron shameless plug Yes Yes, and I do like our chat rooms kind of reacting to some of these things sir game a lot It says that five questions are better. I mean three three questions are better Um, and then prismara is saying ask me the questions bridge keeper. I'm not afraid Ask me velocity of a swallow. Yeah, uh, melanie. Ask is saying uh change it to 20 questions with correct answers under 15 Correct leads to a terrible fate Oh my goodness what is it turning into Now sir game a lot is literally quoting monty python and the holy grail word for word in the chat room. So Okay, what about if we like One questions and We're thinking like short snappy answers, right? Like what was your favorite mission? Do you like cocoa pepsi better? Like it doesn't have to be spatial later. Um Leave a comment with a question that you kind of like kind of quirky Maybe spatialated but short and snappy that um, you know, you might want to know about our guests It has to be appropriate. We'll moderate them accordingly, but leave it as a comment Or on the community forums community.tmro.tv Um, and maybe your question will get included in our list. Yeah, would be super super cool And uh, we're going to go ahead and go to our last comment of this of the previous episode That we're going to look at which is from jack speed 493 on youtube, which is asteroid mining Going to need to change the space law current law is that no one can own anything in space So that actually kind of leads a little bit Pretty cool to our show that we're actually going to be having Space my god you're doing the interview next week. Mm-hmm. Yes. That's right. That's right And next week, uh, we're going to be talking to chris johnson. Who's a space law advisor at the secure world foundation He's also an adjunct professor of law at georgetown university. So uh, or rather georgetown law, so He's going to be a really great resource to talk about what the actual legalities are of this and how it kind of Buries from country to country. Yeah, and I think that's what's so interesting to me Is that right now there is no like globally accepted standards as to what the legality of things are Which it leads to some cool political intrigue And other things out of space treaty and stuff But all of these things out of space treaty moon agreement The astronaut safety return agreement probably got that name wrong because it's law something like that They're all signed in like the 60s and 70s like yeah, where is the space law for the 21st century? Yeah, so we're going to talk about that next week and i'm super looking forward To that because that's something that gets thrown around a lot here on the show But we've never actually I don't know if we've ever actually had an expert come on and talk about it I think he'd like orbit eight. Yeah, maybe so an expert. Um, with that. Yeah, thank you Oh, no two. What was that? Oh, we've had two. Okay. Got you. So not an expert. It's just we've had All right very very good Beautifully one question I do want to learn from the space lawyer is we always have this argument With our launch calendar like how we keep track of the different countries that are winning, right? How do you define? Like which country you should give that particular launch to you like does it go like if it's a soya's rocket Is it a russian launch or because the europeans bought that launch and it launched from french guiana? Is that like a french launch or european launch? But there's I want the definitive answer so that we can get our tally, right? So we can see who wins the bet between mike and ben. Yeah So um, so it turns out for the united states it'll actually be florida launches in california launches Um, so nobody wins. All right, and to go ahead and wrap up our show Oh, yeah, waffs. I'm sorry delaware Virginia, Virginia, Virginia, or is it del? No, it's virginia. I don't know. It's del marva I think it's just another part of the world that I have happened to it Yeah, it's just another part of the world that I happen to have insulted on this show. All right, so The show we want to thank our escape velocity citizens These folks give us ten dollars for episode or more. We also have our orbital citizens. You give us Five dollars to nine dollars and ninety nine cents for episode also our sub orbital citizens You give us anywhere from two dollars and fifty cents to four dollars and ninety nine cents per episode As a stall for time four dollars and ninety nine cents that is four hundred and ninety nine pennies Have you found your name yet? Awesome in our ground support citizens as well You give us anywhere from a dollar to two dollars and forty nine cents per episode and do not be mistaken Um Any support that we can get from you is fantastic. We are appreciative of it You do not even have to financially support us You can come on to our community at community dot tomorrow dot tv If you have the ability to code if you have the ability to Read things if you just have an ability that you think would be helpful to tomorrow We are more than happy for you to come on The show come on and help us out and make this show even better And if you would like to help out the show of tomorrow You can head on over to patreon.com slash tmro or go over to community dot tmro.tv where we have awesome discussions All the time It's fun. So I really enjoy it. Yeah, it's worth it. So all right. So that is it for 11 dot 36 We hope that you have a very nice week and uh, we'll see you around