 to citizen science in a transition to open science. We will talk specifically about institutional opportunities and challenges for creating an open and inclusive environment for research with regards to citizen science. So this is a two-day workshop and today we will focus on the institutional approach. Before we start, some housekeeping rules. Let's see if I can go to the second slide, yes. So unfortunately, all participants are muted and your video is turned off. This is because we have a lot of participants and we want to keep it a bit orderly. If you want to tweet, you can use the hashtags or tweets of AOI and OpenAir as shown there. If you have any questions or comments about the presentations or the topics presented here, please use the Q&A box. This way we can have an overview of all the questions and the questions will be addressed after the presentations if there's time and otherwise there's a dedicated Q&A time at the end of the presentations. We also would like to hear your opinion. We have some mentee questions prepared for you. Again, there will be time during the Q&A time at the end, but if you already want to have a look, you can go to mentee.com and give in the code 8257153. If you have any other things to say, any technical issues, you can use the chat box. And I also would like to note that this session is being recorded. The recordings and the slides will be made available through YouTube and Zenodo, but we will also send out a tweet when they are available and we will send you an email with all the available information and where you can find the slides and recordings. So as said, today we will talk about citizen science in an institutional context and I don't want to take up more of your time. So I would like to pass the word to Jean-Pierre Finance and Ynevan Niemburg for the introduction. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, dear colleagues. It's my pleasure to welcome you to this webinar gently organized, as Semili said, by Opponaire and EUA on the university approach to citizen science in the transition to open science. This topic is becoming more and more important, particularly in this context of pandemic crisis needing to step up, speed up, sorry, both citizen science and open science. Just to remember you that EUA is a European university, is the European University Association with 840 members and it's more than EU because there is 48 countries associated through into EUA. Next slide. Next please. Okay. University in Europe are exploring and promoting the potential of citizen science to expand public participation in science and support alternative model of knowledge production. As we said, we'll say Professor Mukhi Akle with our today's keynote speaker. In fact, numerous projects and a small but growing number of initiative are leading the way showing the benefit of engaging citizen into various stage of research. However, citizen science is rarely part of institutional mission nor approaches to academic career assessment. In short, it's not common part of the academic culture. It will be key to provide support, incentives and rewards to encourage institution and academic staff to pursue citizen science. Next. Yes, okay. European research area. Renewed by the European Commission and EU member states in 2020, continue building a common European research and innovation landscape, broader vision for the new era while deeper existing priorities and objectives. And in this context, the topic of citizen science is high on the EU policy by the introduction, introducing citizen's engagement in research as part of the process, specifically for its potential to achieve greater impact and increase trust in science. And the pandemic context, as I said, show it's necessary to improve this relationship between a society and a science. EUA for its side believe that citizen science can be a valuable part of the broader transition to open science, opening the research process and bringing its outcomes closer to the society. Thus, EUA has provided the policy input of the new area, including the need to support, incentive and rewards citizen science. Before leaving the floor to my colleague and friend, Inge Van Niel Verberg, I would like next to just to remember the next current open access, open science survey sent by EUA, aiming to gather a comprehensive view of strategic and operational development by university in the transition to open science. And the topics include specifically open access for sure, fair data sharing, but also citizen science, open education, et cetera. And I would like just to remember that this access to the survey is still open, the deadline between being ascended to the 15th January, 2021. Thank you very much. And I would like to send the floor to Inge. Inge. Yes, hello everyone. Thanks a lot, Jean-Pierre. So this is a workshop, which is co-organized by the EUA and Open Air and it's in the context of open science, which we have seen lately in the last few months, open science plays an important role in the current conditions we have to do research in how to disseminate information. But I just want to highlight again, why we find open science so important. Well, science just doesn't happen in the lab alone. It's part of our everyday life. And we want to engage the public. We want to engage people in research and show them how and include them in the process and show them the importance of science. It researches a part of a wider ecosystem. So it's an innovation process. It's an academic ecosystem, but embedded in society. And there is a social responsibility. So a dialogue interaction is needed. And citizen science is of course important part there. Open science is about trust. It's about reproducibility. It's about transparency. It's about accountability. It's involving everyone into this dialogue. Now, Open Air for more than 10 years is an open access infrastructure for research in Europe. And we support open science in many different ways in social interaction, in the technical solutions. We support open and reproducible science. Communication is key here, of course. And with Open Air, we have broad tasks and broad services that we provide. There are national open access desks in every European country. But what you see next to all the things that we do here and all the people that we get together, there is also a citizen science part in Open Air. So that is why we together with EUA do this workshop. So we are working on services, very practical for people to use, but we are involved in the line policies and we have a lot of training for people to get involved in open science. As said, there is a network of national open science desks. So you can have a look who is a national open access desk in your country can always contact us, but we are embedded in the world. And we have a lot of interaction with international, with international organizations all over the world. Now, this is just as an introduction and welcome to this workshop. I will leave the floor now to, and I'll stop sharing my screen, I will leave the floor now to speakers that will inform you and get you excited about citizen science, but also want to discuss how we approach that new university context. And we will start with two speakers, two professors with different backgrounds to give their view on citizen science in respect to their discipline. Our first speaker is Professor Muki Hakle, who is a very well known, when we talk about citizen science and of course he will also be in his discipline which is geographic information science. He works at the university college London and then he's also the core director of the UCL extreme citizen science group. I would like to name extreme citizen science group. So he is very experienced in the subjects. And afterwards, I will give the word to Professor Alexander Rebson Jensenius, so he's a Alexander. He is a music researcher and research musician. So that's in the humanities sciences. And he is an associate professor, a professor at the department musicology of the university of Oslo. He is a member of the expert group at EOA Open Science. So he sees the connection with Open Science and wants to talk about that as well. So without further ado, I'll leave the floor to Professor Hakle. Please go ahead. Thank you and John Perra for the introduction, very kind words. What I'm going to spend the next 30 minutes on is give you, I'm sure that there are some people here who kind of have some ideas about citizen science but not complete understanding. So in order to bring us all into a common understanding, I will try to cover the different aspects of citizen science activities and kind of talk about why we are seeing it and where it came from. But I'll do that by using examples from my own university, UCL, to demonstrate how different activities come together in order to build up the landscape. And then I'll talk also about the learning and what it's the relevance for research, but also the challenges and opportunities for universities, which will be our last part. So the first thing to notice is that in the past 10 years, we have seen a rapid growth in awareness to citizen science. This is just one example from Scopus, which demonstrate this rapid increase and a recent analysis of papers, demonstrated that papers on citizen science increase in a more rapid pace than the general increase in academic papers. So why is it happening and why we are suddenly paying attention for it? What is happening when we are looking around the world in different citizen science activities? We are seeing overrepresentation of people with higher education, people with university degrees will deal with other groups later on. But when you're opening citizen science, what happened over the past two decades is that we increased massively the number of people who are going through tertiary degrees and all our universities have benefited from it. There is now at this moment over 2.5 million people studying for PhD degree. And that general level of population, that kind of transition, mean that many more people in society understanding what the scientific process is, even if they're not involved in deep day in, day out in the work, but we are within working in a more scientific society. We have many more people that can join in our interested in scientific processes and activities. And that combined with the technological development which a lot of people are raising within the framework of citizen science. So the web, the mobile, the sensing devices that we will see, all of them has come together and increase the range and activities of citizen science. But let's look at both citizen science and the history at UCL at, and the history is actually going back into the 1980s and even before with a lot of interest on public participation in research, a lot of it within the social sciences. And we'll see one example later on of that early experiment, but a clear growth over the past decade which you'll see signposting. And it's crossing a lot of disciplinary boundary. We will see it in medical and health and engineering, life science, physical sciences, art science, geography, social science, humanities, all these areas. And that also raise the challenge which we'll note later on. And we also see a growing community of researchers and practitioners with knowledge in the field. So in each of these fields, people started calling those activities in different names and it took those two decades for them to say, hey, you're doing something like me and let's start sharing the knowledge and agree what it is that we are doing. So if we look at citizen science, we kind of can look at different areas. And this is a typology paper from 2018 which you can find online. Of course, open access. And the first area is the area of long running citizen science. Where citizen science never disappeared from the agenda of researchers. There is like ecology and biodiversity where volunteers continue to collect data and sharing it. Or meteorology where weather observation continue to come from a wide range of volunteers. Or archeology where people participated in excavations. So the example from UCL in 2007 is the big, large-scale open-air laboratory which was funded notice by the big lottery fund not by a research funder. And that project was running for 10 years and engage million children over those years. And there are fantastic output from it. Open-air laboratory or OPAL was also at the basis of the establishment of the European Citizen Science Association. At UCL there was work around designing experiment with water where the model was to ask school children to collect data. And then the scientists are the one to analyze it but the children are actively participating in the analysis. Another area is citizen cyber science that's an area of citizen science that would not be possible without the internet and computing resources. So that includes things like volunteer computing where people put in software on their phone or on their computer and actively participating in scientific process by processing data and allowing large-scale processing of different experiments. An example of that is a project of creating analysis of nanotubes for water filtering which was run at Wichingwa University but also with some engagement of the UCL, the London Nanotechnology Center which is at UCL. Another example of that is OpenStreetMap. This is actually an amazing bottom-up project started by an undergraduate at UCL after he finishes studies and he needed access to map data but that was not available. So because GPS was already available and there was ability to share information online he set out the system that will create a Wikipedia of maps so people now can access all this data openly and it produced massive amount of papers. It's also for me a personal experience of being very nice to an undergraduate while you're doing your PhD because he then handed over the paper on OpenStreetMap which became one of my top cited papers. So always be nice to undergraduate as a PhD student. Another example is that Transcribe Bentham which is in the Digital Humanities area and it started in 2009 and asking the public to contribute through transcribing the writing of Bentham and his writing is absolutely horrendous to transcribe and indeed there are really skilled people that are involved in it people with legal experience and actually it's one of the project that a review of it showed that many of the participants hold the PhD. Another example in the Volunteer Thinking area where we are using cognitive abilities is the Final Flowers which was a project at the London Center for National Technology which I mentioned earlier and it actually used different scanning of atoms in order to analyze a specific pattern. It's similar to now what we see in a lot of this universe project and there is similarity between that. There are also examples of passive sensing project where in passive sensing those are projects where you use the similar ability to the volunteer computing so ability to run a process on the computer but you use some sensing ability. And a great example from UCL was the pandemic experiment which run as part of the BBC where people were asked to download the software and to check with the Bluetooth, who they see and the information that came out of this experiment was contributing to the UK modeling of the pandemic at the early stages. It's a project with clear and direct impact. The final type of activities and citizen science that we look at are community science. So those are more community oriented with much higher level of participation by the people who are involved in it. And actually that's the area where we talk more about empowerment although that exists in all area because you give more power away to the participants. And I mentioned the work in the 1980s and this is actually the pedigree of my own work that started from activities where researchers at the Department of Geography were pioneers in using focus groups in participatory approaches to engage deprived communities in understanding their green spaces. And while I was doing my own PhD I was working with different communities building on this research and engaging people in understanding environmental information. So I was interested in public access to environmental information. And because it wasn't available online we had to drag people all the way to UCL in order to see and explore this information. What was fascinating is that people without any experience of using computer before people in their 60s who never touched a mouse during this workshop were identifying information that was for them inaccurate and didn't match their local knowledge. And therefore they insisted on taking it learning the mouse and the keyboard and starting to update the information. So contributing to information. With the advent of the smartphone there were activities that fall into the participatory sensing. So this is a project that was run under the FET Open program of FP7. And within this everywhere project there was an app that was used to record the level of noise in different parts of the city. And it was used quite extensively around Heathrow. Today there is another project that run by a social enterprise that is associated with our group Marking for Change who is involved in a project a European project denoses that measure for other observatories. But activities of sensing and community engagement also happen in the social sciences. So there is a fascinating social citizen social science happening by the Institute of Global Prosperity where they are engaging people within East London in discussing what type of issues they want to explore. What does it mean to have prosperity and they are actively involved not just in defining it but also in measuring it. Another areas that engage people quite heavily is within the DIY science when people are building their own devices. So like this humidity and temperature sensor that you see here or people building their own network or flood modeling. This is an example of the power of citizen science. If a researcher want to install a flood network they will need to consider issues like where they install it, how many times they need to go back to the place in order to change the batteries, how the communication will work and so on. But when people put it at the end of their garden and using their own Wi-Fi and the device is beeping when they need to change the batteries so they change it all these problems go away plus you have access to places that regularly it's very complex to access such as people's backyard. And another fantastic example that came out from an iGen competition from the International Genetically Engineering Machine competition is the Bento Lab where two students from UCL were setting out and understanding that there is a value in carrying out PCR analysis at home on a device that is the size of about the laptop. And they started working also through crowdfunding on Bento Lab which you now can find online and you can use it in different ways and it was even again relevant within our current situation. And we get now into the work of my own group again about working with non-literate groups in different parts of the world in Cameroon, in Brazil and so on and creating a participatory tool where the icons that you see on the screen have been co-designed and agreed with the community through a free and pre-o-informed constant process. And then that data is being collected and shared for example with a logging company to ensure that the area that the important to the community will not be home during the logging process or another example that they are now working together with the Institute of Global Prosperity work in the Maasai Maurer and with local researchers is identifying over 170 types of trees and creating a system where they go around and collect information about the health or problems that exist in different trees. And that information is then used in combination with artificial intelligence and satellite imagery in order to help and assess the condition of the ground and deal with climate change and equation. There is also a whole emerging area out of all this work which you can call the science of citizen science this amazing growth in understanding what are the aspects of citizen science. So your files have in a situation where citizen science is its own transdisciplinary area where people are understanding for example in an important paper that came from our human computer interaction researchers on what are the different aspects of design for different people that participate in volunteer thinking or a major book that came out in just two years ago about citizen science. It came out of the UCL open access press which was a delight to work with and therefore is accessible and you can find it with all its chapters or the fact that we are now running an MSc level course introduction to citizen science and scientific crowdsourcing which my group run and we run it actually in parallel on the open course platform of UCL, UCL extent and we allow anyone who wants to join the course while we are teaching it in class to join in and see it online. This is now leading to the creation of an MSc program in citizen science and scientific crowdsourcing which will open its door in 2022. And finally out of all this work we now have the support of the UCL office of open science and scholarship which was launched in October and it's included the mission of the language citizen science. But let's notice something really important already we're noticing that citizen science exists across discipline. I've just demonstrated to you that it's working from humanities to social science to nanotechnology. And that means that there isn't one discipline that will work with you. And when we consider that public engagement in general is a minor activity of many researchers. So there are too many researchers who are not even involved at the basic level of public engagement. Some research at UCL demonstrated that over 80% of researchers are not even sharing on social media when they are publishing something. So that means that and explains why the people that are working within the field of citizen science are coming together from across discipline to develop this understanding of the science of citizen science and how to promote their own work. We also see different issues in terms of the public of the participant engagement. We've seen examples of different use of technology not everything need to be based on smartphones and apps. Sometimes the app is the wrong thing to do. And there are different levels of knowledge. We've seen that in some projects it's appropriate to recruit people with a PhD while in other projects you can work with people who don't read and write. So that all led to the creation of different association already eight years ago there was both in Europe and in the US interest in creating collaboration of different people that are doing citizen science which led to the creation of the citizen science association the European citizen science association, the Australian. And now we are seeing also the emergence of the African and the Asian and there is also one in Latin America. But moreover, we are now also seeing national networks emerging where researchers are sharing information about their own place in networks like in Denmark, in Germany, in Spain and some networks are going in other countries as well. And what we're getting through these networks of valuable things like early on the European citizen science association came up with the excellent principles of citizen science which help researchers in the area of best practice of identifying what is a good citizen science and that can also help in managing and understanding how a citizen science should work. Like notice, for example, that it need to be genuine science outcome but we're not saying exactly the detail of a sound outcome because in some cases that will mean a paper in nature and science, in other cases it will mean creation of a database like the open screen one. But because the principles are somewhat vague and more about the best practice, a recent effort of XR led to the creation of the characteristics of citizen science. That's a document that is going to help policy makers at different levels from university or in funding organizations and in other places to identify what type of activity should be called citizen science. Both documents are available on Xenodo and in the case of the characteristics there is also an expanded explanation document and currently working on an open access paper that will provide the background and the rationale behind it. So now I'll end the last part about the opportunities and the challenges in research with citizen science. So what are the opportunities within research? We have the core production of knowledge. That is something that for me who's been doing that for 20 years, it's fantastic. It's the way I'm doing things. I'm very happy not to assume that I know more than the people that live in the neighborhood and I can show them the statistical information that we have from the outside but I'll ask for their interpretation because a lot of time as an external researcher I won't have the right interpretation about this thing. I can suggest things but not always understanding but it requires you to give away the power of control over the project and some researchers do find it challenging. It also allow you to engage and include voices that are missing in scientific research and that is something that is critical to make research relevant to society. With too many times and I can point to different decisions that are being made in Britain that demonstrate the lack of understanding of different voices in different lives of minorities, of people that are not within the socioeconomic status of researchers and so on. It allows cover and in scope as I demonstrated to you with both open street map and the flood mapping you wouldn't be able to do the research otherwise. It's impossible to try and coordinate accessing 500 people backyards with citizen science, you can. It also allow you to create a societal impact and allow you to access resources that would be how to reach otherwise. The level of computing that volunteer computing provides is unprecedented in terms of the ability of doing calculation in different areas. So that aspect led to awareness both in the US since 2016 there is a bill called the Citizen Science and Crowdsourcing Act that follow a memorandum from the chief scientist of the US. In Europe, we have this of course in the La Mer report but now within also the regulations of Horizon Europe where citizen science is mentioned as a cross cutting thing and the principle of citizen science including citizen science. Noted in the recent brochure that came out of the commission with the support of Maria Gabriel on this area. And we're already seeing different activities in the area. This is from analysis a year ago by the commission of looking at which project are engaging with it. Now we don't have the total number of course of project in each of the column which would give us a better analysis. So for example, my own ERC project is one of those 14 project but when we think about the total number this is still a small minority. Same thing can be said about the Marie Curie fellowships and so on. So we're seeing a starting of it but not extensive use of it. And to finish our talk we also need to notice different levels of engagement from people that are involved at very small levels. So we can see it as part of a spectrum of public engagement. So we can think about everyone in society. We can think about people who are passively consuming science like watching a TV program or just reading a news article. Then we can think about active consumption of science going to a science show or going to a museum and so on. Above that you start getting engaged in citizen science. For example, there is once a year a project in the UK where you go and watch birds for one hour a year and report it to the RSPB. This project has managed to reach out 500,000 people. That's the ability of reaching huge amount of people and contributing to the data. Above that you start involving in deeper tasks and spending more of your time. And the number of people that are involved in DIY science is very small. And we can also think about the, on each citizen science project that we actually need to balance between those different goals. So while I talked about projects that are engaging people with PhDs and other projects that are engaged with people who are non-literate, they require different resources and different attention and you can't achieve all the goals at once. So you always need to balance the different goals. A major challenge within the area of citizen science is of course funding. And we have to notice that to this day the level of funding that this area we're getting despite of the societal impact is still not significant enough which is why recently I am calling for, let's be ambitious, let's think about 10 or 20% of the similar budget of what is going on to turn because with the size of budget which we are talking about 150 or 300 million a year we could reach massive amount of European population. So to summarize what we're noticing about citizen science in university it's an unable research that's not possible otherwise. It addressed the need for societal impact. It's also contributed to the mission across different activities. We've seen example in the teaching, we've seen the example in research, we've seen example in outreach. We have seen example that it's in cutting-edge science. They are our EOC project. They are doing that in the frontiers of science but it's crossing all disciplinary boundaries. And therefore the support to it need to be same as part of infrastructure which is why for example at UCLI strategic analysis demonstrated the library is a really good host over some other body that cross across the different faculty otherwise we will cover just part of the activity. So that's it for me. Thank you very much. Thanks a lot Professor Meckley. We have some questions coming in but we will address them to the end of this session when after the panel and then we can address many of these questions. Thanks again Professor Meckley. Now we turn over to Professor Alexander Repsumi and Seniors. Now we go more, we will talk more about some challenges, challenges of science for universities. To all of you. Thank you very much. I will talk about challenges. I will talk about some opportunities as well if I'm allowed to do that. And thanks a lot also to the very nice presentation by Muki to kind of frame this. I will dig in a little bit more into a few specific things and also from the perspective of working at the university where we have some examples of citizen science but not a very kind of strategic approach to it. So a few things about myself first. So I'm working then on this from the perspectives of both being a music researcher and the research musician. And also, so that's kind of the more kind of the bottom up approach but also then from running a lab in a center and also being involved in various types of policymaking from the top. So I kind of tried to kind of unite the kind of the top and the bottom perspectives in this presentation. I should also mention that I often prefer to talk about open research instead of open science. And that's particularly because I'm coming from the arts and humanities where also the concept of science doesn't always fit with what we're doing. So I may mix up these two terms and a little bit in the presentation. Just to kind of briefly to talk about the kind of the concept of open research as you know, the idea here is that we are trying to figure out how to open the research process more. So as it has traditionally been you start with kind of an idea then you write an application and then you do the research and then you have some kind of output. And usually the application and the research part they have been kind of black boxes and the output part is well kind of grayish and we are doing more open access we're opening publications, et cetera but this still not entirely open. And within this kind of timeline and kind of framework for doing research then we have all the different components of open research that you can see here where you can see citizen science as being kind of one of these books if you think about citizen science more as being kind of a methodological approach to how you collect data but also as we just heard I mean you can also think about citizen science more as kind of an encompassing approach where the idea is really to be able to kind of think about all the different elements of the research process and figure out how we can get citizens involved in these. So the question then is how do you do that and how do you go about doing it? And I think I will try to give then a couple of examples from my own research so you could also call the citizen research in terms of citizen science but anyways let's keep to the science part here. So I have two kind of cases that I will present briefly here now and then I'll draw up some of the challenges that I've experienced from doing these. So let's start with this one called the analytics in Norwegian. And this one is coming out on my research interest in studying how the human body is involved in music making of different kinds and more specifically over the last few years I've been interested in really trying to understand more about if music actually makes people move because we often say that music moves us but is that really the case? So we have been running a lot of experiments in my motion capture lab where we have people coming into the lab and we asked them to stand still and we play music to them and we measure them with different types of systems and then look at how they move and if they move more when they listen to music. And then of course running, doing this in a controlled lab environment in kind of a more traditional research setting is very good. We get very good quality of the data, et cetera. But of course the challenge here is that we are not able to get very many participants in here because it's a very time consuming way of doing things. So then one way to get more participants into this was that we, some years ago, started up the Norwegian Championship of Stand Still which is a competition where people would come to our lab and the task is then really to stand still on the floor and we play music to them and we measure what they're doing. And then we also have a winner coming out of this. So it's a way of kind of engaging the public in this. And we've been running this championship annually and this has provided us with lots of nice data that we have also made publicly available in the Oslo Stand Still database with now more than 600 recordings of people standing still while listening to music. So this is still not really perhaps sit in science is more about just kind of attracting more people. So then how can we really get people more involved with this? Well, one approach that we have made is to try to see how we can also share the data with people and also involve people in doing analysis on this data. So we develop software that we make available on GitHub. We also make these drip to notebooks where people can go in and edit and come up with different types of interpretations of their own data and also other people's data. All of this is anonymous, of course. So in terms of privacy. But then how can we go even further and get even more data in here? And then we teamed up with a company called Deanne Ladding that develops educational software for schools. And Gedi here was to see if we can try to get also data from school children around the country. So we made this case study that would be distributed to teachers and the teachers would then take this into the classroom and then do this exercise with the kids where they were standing still in the classrooms listening to music and then they would answer some questions. So we get some quantitative data collected from the teachers but we also get these drawings where the kids would also draw how it felt like standing still in silence and how it felt like standing still with music. So this is a very nice data set that we have got now where we're still getting lots of these. So we get lots and lots of data, which is a very nice thing. But what we see is that the quantitative data that we get from the forms are very simple and are so generic that it's not really so easy to get things out of it. And the qualitative data that we get are very messy. So that's kind of a few methodological challenges that we need to continue working on. More from the institutional perspective, we see that it's a bit tricky to rely on an external partner when it comes to kind of distributing these cases and kind of collecting information. So we have very limited control on the data collection itself. And we have no control on the selection of participants for this. So both of these kind of lead to different types of bias, which we need to kind of take into account as well. So that's kind of the summarizing some of the things that we got out of this type of doing kind of data collection from a citizen science perspective. Now, let me now turn to another case that we've been running called Music Lab, which is a little bit more elaborate and a little bit larger and when it comes to kind of engaging people. So this is a collaboration between my research center Ritmo and the university library here in Oslo where we teamed up and tried to think about the concept where you can really try to open the entire process and get people involved from the start. So the whole idea here is to build a Music Lab through as one concept, an event where we have one research question that we want to kind of answer. And everything then is built around a public concert where we will test out this research question. So for each of the events, we also organized a workshop in the day where we present some methodology and invite everyone that wants to come to participate in this. We've run a panel discussion also prior to the event where we discuss with both researchers and also other people involved in the topic about different things. We do data collection of the musicians but also the audience during the concert. So we invite everyone to participate there. And then we do data joking at the end of the event where the idea is that we will share the data straight away and have people then actually do live data analysis as part of the event itself. Of course, all the data and everything around this event is shared openly. Here are just some pictures from some of these events. They have been usually been going on all day with kind of this evening event where there's also this kind of social component to this. So we have been running several of these music labs now and have gained quite a lot of experience. And what we see is that what we thought of as kind of just kind of a way of opening the research process has led to also a lot of other types of solving and various things. So first of all, we had kind of to work on the concept development, how to really do these type of things in the first place and particularly from kind of an arts and humanities perspective, how we can kind of think about including kind of a way of asking questions and collecting data that is actually meaningful from our perspective. There's a lot of problem solving going on in terms of just making this happen at all. We also seen that this leads to publications on its own coming out of this just on kind of developing all of this. And then of course also the infrastructure development that we also are part of. Just a few words about some of these. So on the problem solving side, privacy is a major issue for us and it's something that we have been discussing a lot. And this is a general problem when you're dealing with research on humans, particularly after also GDPR. And it's also then escalating in kind of complexity when you're dealing with kind of also opening the entire process and involving citizens at all levels. We also have the issue of copyright where everything we are dealing with have some kind of copyright. So it's also problematic to solve that particularly when you want kind of to share things again openly. On the infrastructure side, we have the challenges of both storage and archive. And I'll mention these two challenges a little bit more because not everybody thinks about this. So an archive is usually somewhere where you store something for kind of long-term preservation and this is typically something that libraries are dealing with. Storage, on the other hand, when it comes to kind of working on active data, it's something that typically IT organizations are working with. And in my experience, unfortunately, there is kind of still quite a big gap between the kind of the storage and the archive side of things here. So what we are working on now is to develop this Music Lab app for data collection where people will be able to answer questions and we also do data collection on people's bodies by looking at how they move. And we're doing this in such a way that people can download and use this app and then we will safely store the data on the University Oslo Service. So we can combine to GDPR and privacy. There, of course, we also have a good way of the researchers being able to work with the data. More challenging then is to have citizens getting access to our internal secure storage at the University and try to figure out streamlined ways of doing that. And also then to solve the archival part here, how can we actually then create a good transfer of data from storage to archive with persistent IDs and everything else that kind of makes this work properly. So to try to kind of summarize some of the more challenging part here and kind of some of the institutional challenges as well that I've learned from doing these type of experiments and with both the Yanleiding and the Music Lab cases. We have the need for develop more technical infrastructure at all levels. We need channels for connecting to citizens from an institutional perspective how to actually do this is still something that at least at my university we don't really have a strategic way of doing. We need more legal support. There is so many questions when it comes to privacy and copyright that we need to handle at the bottom level. We need more and better data management support and particularly the way of how to share things not only be able to store it on a secure server. We also need to have strategies for avoiding bias and pressure when it comes to this data that we collect. And of course we also need incentives and rewards so that people are actually interested in doing all of this. So we need to develop policies. That's of course important. That's also what's going on in very many places now. But it's also very important to connect this kind of top-down way of working with also kind of more bottom-up approach. So we need more pilot projects to really try things out and have more researchers to get their hands dirty and really testing it. Okay, I think that's what I wanted to say today. Thank you very much. Thanks a lot, Alexander. So as said before, I have seen many questions coming in the Q&A. We will certainly address some of them. Some of them will be answered probably in the panel and some of them will be answered later on in the Q&A and discussion at the end. Now before we move on to the panel, Irina, we have a few Mentimeter questions to throw in and to hear how things are going on at your university. So maybe we can show the slide again for the Mentimeter, the information for the Mentimeter. We wanted to ask you a few questions. And thanks a lot for starting answering them already. So we have 20 responses. Can we show the slide again? It's menti.com, right? We can type it in the chat box. I'll show the slide again. Thank you. Let's see. Okay, screen. And I put a link in the chat, which should point you directly to this Mentimeter. So please go ahead and go to menti.com, enter the code, and we would like to hear what you have to say about the questions. Irina, will we look at some answers later on or do you already want to say something about it? After the panel. Okay, thank you. Then we go to the panel, where probably some of your questions will be answered. And the panel will be led by Professor Daniel Weiler. He's also a member of the EUA Open Science Expert Group. So we'll discuss open science questions and he will lead this panel. Daniel, I'll give the floor to you. Okay, thank you very much, Inge. I fear my connection is not so good and you may but maybe that's even better. So, okay. The panel consists of distinguished practitioners and people of citizen science. We have Muki Hauklai, who whom you have seen already. You have heard. I don't need to add anything. He makes the best advertisement for himself. Then we have Susan Tensman. Susan is a director of the Zurich Academy of Participatory Science. She's organizing. She's initiating courses here in Zurich. I'm in Zurich to how to do citizen science. What do students have to learn to become fluent? And also how to attack citizens to come. Our next participant is Loreta Perhugenine. If I say it right, from Lithuania, she's an ombudsperson for academic ethics and procedures in the Republic of Lithuania. She's an expert on challenges that can come from ethical or legal side and which are issues in citizen science. And then we have Alexander, whom you just heard, who spends a quarter of his body not to move but to do open science. If you remember his first slide. Okay, so my idea was to have a few questions that came up. Come up while you do citizen science while you try to negate citizen science. And I would ask them to the panel. Probably some of these questions have been already put on the question and answer session. And I hope I can cover some of your questions. But maybe at the end later on we will have time to see directly. So my first question is more general one goes to primarily to Muki. What do you see as the advantage of citizen science over other science? How to convince small researchers and the public to enrich them? And what have you experienced are the greatest hurdles? So as I mentioned towards the end of the presentations, there are things that are simply impossible to do or will be very, very complex to do about getting into people's homes and backyards and collecting information within that. That's a line from Karen Cooper from North Carolina State University that people's backyard are one of the most inaccessible places for science. And it's actually a very once you've kind of think through it, it's a really good point. There are also the ideas as especially when we are carrying out geographical research with communities, you get insight and interpretation about information that you see. So for example, you observe that people don't use one bus stop and tend to use another bus stop. And if you are an external researcher, you'll start to try and come with a hypothesis. Why is that happen? If you ask someone locally, they'll tell you that in one of their bus stops, there was a lot of mugging and they feel safer to go out in the second one and you've got your answer. So that's another way in which I know from experience that research can get better. So there will be other things of that sort. So there are so many advantages of that. Now for researchers, it doesn't fit for every research project and every research area. It's got its place to certain activity and when it's suitable, it should be considered. Okay. Thank you, Muki. I would come with the second question to Susan. What kind of skills do you need to do citizen science? Who has these skills and how do you teach them? How do you bring them into the public university? Thank you very much, Daniel. And yeah, thanks everybody for having this great discussion today. In our work, we indeed focus on competencies and skills for citizen science. And the idea is that you need to have a specific skill set or competencies to engage in science generally and in citizen science in particular. And we like to think of skills and competencies in a broad sense. So on the one hand, cognitive skills, so things that you can learn by learning them by reading, but also skills in the sense of a broader sense of that has an emotional component, a normative component, the ability to function in a group, to translate conversations that are happening in a group. Because we believe that especially in co-creation processes, there are different people that come to the table and Muki pointed to some great examples and people bring different kinds of skills. They also develop new kinds of skills. And so we think that for instance, the skill to make things explicit, rather than having them implicit, the kind of assumptions that people have, interests that they bring to the table, we think an important skill to have in citizen science. Now, we also think that there are things that can be be learned that in a university setting, you can take a course and work on your skills. At the same time, I think it is vital to think of skills as something that is done in action. You have to get active to cultivate skills and to kind of embody them integrated in your whole way of working. So I think it is useful to think of working and developing skills in a kind of action oriented way. So think of them as this is something that you do in action. And I think universities kind of provide settings for this where people can try these things out. They can work in smaller project groups and they can learn also what feels comfortable to me. How can I work in a group, especially when you think of co-creation? And what can I learn? What is maybe foreign to me? And I think that citizen science provides a way here to work and refine these skills for different kinds of people. Maybe I'll just stop here for a comment. Thank you very much. So some universities have set up citizen science in some way, but usually separated from the main research activities. So how can you avoid that citizen science is just another thing in the university program and how to integrate it more in the setting of the university? I would like to ask Alexander to comment on that. Yeah, that's a very good question. And I think it's important to just in the same way that we're thinking about adding open research and avoiding having open research as kind of another thing. It's about opening the entire process and taking that as the norm and also for citizen science to also be kind of thought of as kind of just a normal thing to do and that this should be really integrated in everything we're doing. And I also think many universities develop policies kind of from a top-down level and you can always write kind of a policy and a paper and say that now we have a policy, but you really need to also get researchers involved in this. So you need to have kind of a participatory design when it comes to kind of creating these things. And I think it's also very important to have within a university that the research administration, the IT section and the library, those three are critical to make this happen in my opinion in addition to the researchers of course. And it's really important to work together here because I often see that people work on this kind of separately and then it's not going to happen in my opinion. And finally, we also need to remember the students. Both incoming students and also outgoing students are also citizens and the way we can really also really easily engage with society at large. So that's also kind of something we perhaps need to think more carefully about when it comes to also citizen science. Would you say that incoming students could always start with projects on citizen science to learn to do science or to do research? I would definitely say that that incoming students are great. I mean, they're coming from there. They're definitely coming directly from society and getting kind of experienced with university thinking. So it's a good starting point. But also that once that we send out a new state alumni that we have in universities as kind of a bridge into doing this as well. It's a good way of doing it, I think. Okay. I'm from Switzerland. We have a small country and we have many people of very different languages. And to have a project of a reasonable size, you often need to overcome differences in regional differences and languages. Of course, other countries feel that much stronger. And I thought Loretta could comment on that. How do citizen scientists work in different countries, in different regions, in different settings? And maybe you'll have some ideas, examples, how to do this. Thank you for the question. I'm going just to provide some examples from Eastern Europe and giving this kind of linguistic variation is really exist. And it's also kind of a barrier to understand what the citizen science is. So for example, if I look at my home country, Lithuania, so definitely scientists don't get what citizen science is, such as a term, if we make a translation word by word. And it needs more dedication by explaining this term. And definitely it's not easy to find a relevant translation of this term, because for example, our language is one of the oldest and it doesn't evolve so fast by introducing new terms. So this is quite a challenging thing. Another thing that we also notice by observing what is happening in relation to citizen science in Lithuania is that we see that individual researchers, not institutions, they do some activity that we could name as citizen science, but they don't figure out this by themselves. So this is also an issue that sometimes they take this as action research as an approach, but not as part of the citizen science. And there are quite many examples that we can find on Facebook by posting and inviting people to contribute to their studies. But in terms of the open science, where we have some terminology, and now there's some intentions to interconnect with the citizen science and give a better explanation of that. So this is still ongoing. Okay. The related question maybe with somewhat different is to consider projects that go say over many countries over a lot of you, of course, which include the issue of language. And I would like to ask Muki, who's in the Exxon in the European Association, how to do this, what is the advantage should one first start locally and then be in the nano or the other way around? Yeah. So what I've noticed from this experience at UCL in the or the UK, where we still don't have a national actually network, and by engaging with Exxon is that they are complementary, they are not replacement. There is a need to work locally. So the process of reaching the point where we have the Office of Open Science and Scholarship was a process of the five years plus of different discussions and different development that come together. The work in the UK is continued through different events and different groups coming together. And the same things with Exxon from the early discussions in 2012 to a really active organization that just had a conference with 500 participants. And you get different things from different networks. So I would say you kind of need to think word to be in touch with those different networks and think what it is. It is very important, I would say, actually to start locally. So to make sure that within the university, the people are interested of sharing the experience and then work upward, but I'm a bottom up person. So I would say so wouldn't I? But certain questions don't arise in certain countries. For example, to sit on top of a Swiss mountain, you are less worried about bad air quality, but you are more worried about people straying the landscape from seeing and so various. I agree. Yeah. Okay. The next question goes to Suzanne. It's a question that I think many of you have asked a few times in the questions. What are the incentives and rewards that could lead to more citizen science? Thanks, yeah. That's a good question. One context in which we've been thinking about this question is when we organize and offer courses for students. And there a big concern was, oh, you're offering a course, that's nice, but can I get a credit point for that or two? So the experience for us was really make it credit worthy so that students have an incentive. And that at our university is seems to be working well. We can offer credits, has to be recognized by the faculty where people study. But that is a step that I actually didn't really have on my agenda. I didn't think, didn't realize that this was important, but it is for students at a particular stage in their studies and their qualification process. For researchers, we've been experimenting with giving out seed grants, so a rather small amount of money. But the idea being that with a small amount of money, you can create a motivation for a researcher to say, okay, I'll give it a shot. I can get money for it. This is a line I can put on my CV. And then we'll see what happens with that project. And so there, and the experience there, I think it's too early to tell what has been, because it's really a seed phase. But I think that with small amounts of money that are used internally in a university, there is actually quite a bit of leverage that can be achieved. So from my experience, it's worth looking, of course, Muki pointed to the issue of funding. We should have, of course, think of big channels of funding. But I think also the smaller ones, the giving out 20,000 Euro, it can make a difference for an individual person to see, this is a project that I could not have done otherwise without the involvement of citizens. So I think that thinking about using small amounts of money in the right places can actually make a difference. And there might be room in the university's budget to try this out and see what happens. So I think it's really trying to think of the recipients, what are the motivations for them, for students, its credits. It is, of course, also a question of having role models, having senior researchers engage in citizen science and see that you can publish and you can make a career out of citizen science. I think that is very important. So depending on the perspective that people have and the stage that they're at, we will have to think about the right incentives that we can provide and design for them. Maybe this question could go to all of you on the panel. Would you like to comment on that? There is for me also one incentive that Suzanne may not have mentioned is the incentive to the presidents and the leadership of the university. For instance, an incentive to give some money to citizen science projects. Now who would like to comment on that? Because that's a good question. Probably I would like to join the discussion and by adding that we definitely have some discussions about the need to refocus the evaluation of research itself. And I think that we also need to refocus even researchers' CV by, for example, asking them to showcase whether they have open data sets, whether they have some citizen science related activities done. So to make this kind of as an evidence of socially relevant research that they have done so far. So I think that what is going also discussed very soon and it's also a discussion on going at UNESCO level, that there is a draft of the recommendation for open science. And they suggest a lot of things that relates to citizen science to participate to research in general sense. And I think that if we just come out with some suggestions, what should be suggested to testify open science as well as citizen science, probably that would also change evaluation of research. And also on that, so from again, the experience that I covered on UCL that there was a need to continue and raise the different points and about the potential like what Alexander was raising on the issue of, for example, engaging undergraduates who can engage different people at different levels. I, for example, didn't mention a project in the chemistry department where undergraduate students are creating diffusion tubes then taking it to school as a public engagement activity. And then that has been used for measuring our quality and being used as a material for the students to do their first analytical chemistry activity. In other cases, it can create opportunities for reaching out to alumni. So instead of just reaching them out and telling them something about their department, their past department, there was an opportunity to actually engage them in the research in that department. That's something that a lot of people didn't have experiences under undergraduate and might be exciting for them. So it needs to continue and raise those different opportunities and aspects. And my general aspect also when I'm writing that in research reports is always to think about all the other things that are important for people within your strategic objective beyond just the citizen science. Alexander, would you like to comment? Yeah, I think the others have said very good things and just want to pick up on the point made by Loretta there on having also then the evaluation of researchers and what you are outputting. We also need to think about then the kind of the research process more and also trying to figure out how we can document these type of activities and also reward them and also think about it when we hire people and promote people etc. So researchers also feel that they actually get credit for doing this type of work and that it's not just considered as something secondary. I think just to follow up on that, I totally agree. And I think that we had a citizen science winter school here in Zurich in January and we talked about like what is difficult especially for early career researchers to engage in citizen science when you say you have a time plan that there might be delays and so forth. And the overall issue that really came out is that they were also looking at an academic culture that is really not conducive to these time delays. You might fail a group might not function and these kind of things. And I think we see a overall shift in the academic culture also in the open science and as you say the kind of issues that people are assessed by. And I hope that we're moving towards a situation where engagement with society in a very broad sense and citizen science is not seen as a kind of a nice to have but it's like this is part of your job. You should be doing this and it's a good thing. It's a plus if you do this. Okay, thanks a lot. Maybe citizen science is often considered a part of open science as Alexander has shown us. On the other hand, I think some of the practices of open science how do you think Alexander put this is adversely benefit from citizen science and what do you I think I lost the question there Daniel. Could you repeat please maybe stop your video Daniel maybe for the network. Okay, the question was citizen science and open science people count citizen science as part of open science but open science is also any other research. Now how what of these practices of open science? I think I got the gist of that question kind of being whether kind of open science is kind of the same as or kind of part of of citizen science or if citizen science is part of open science and I guess it really depends on how you look at it. So in the way that I showed in my presentation I'm thinking about it as it can be kind of just one part of open science as such if you think about it as more kind of data collection but personally I think it's more about also kind of really opening the entire process and involving citizens in all different parts of the research where when it comes to also for example using different types of tools etc. So then you're getting also back to the question of training that Susanna was talking about earlier and to what extent you train people or you provide tools in such a way that that citizen can actually help but personally I'm thinking about trying to open this as much as possible and involve citizens at all steps really in the research process. Okay good thank you all for to Irina, we will share the responsibility that this works or doesn't work well please Irina. Thanks a lot Daniel I suggest to have a look at Q&A because we have some questions and comments and then we'll have a look at Mentimeter, thanks a lot for answering that. So there's a comment from Katya Yegorova, thank you so much for this insightful discussion given that citizen science builds upon certain research traditions for example participatory methodologies, how do you motivate those engaged in that research for example participatory mapping in the context of geographical information science to rethink their line of work in relation to citizen science? I'm a citizen science research responsible for consolidating citizen science related activities and I'm sometimes confronted with question of the type how is citizen science different from what I'm doing, what should I rebrand? Thank you so any advice to researchers on that? Yeah so there is the practical and the methodological reasons to do it so that's a problem that actually exists within the citizen science community and if you'll google around the paper by ATSIL and AL that's called citizen science terminology matters which actually look at those different terminologies and the way that it's being described in different fields. So by using citizen science first of all you have what happened is that almost all the researchers who were involved in participatory research were marginalized within their own discipline and they have limited ability to access funding or to access networks that will enable them to reach out and do much more research so by using the term citizen science just for their application and saying that it's a citizen science activity they're opening the opportunities for funding they're opening the opportunities to learn methodologies from related area so learning for example from a researcher in geography by someone from public health which without this common terminology would not known your paper will be found in an easier way continue to call it whatever you use to call it and continue to engage with that community but you can engage with other communities and you can and the fact is that in many cases you use it for certain aspects of your activity and not for everything else. The term is not perfect people recognize that there are some issues even with the term itself in the US there are lots of people arguing around the term citizen within the citizen science but it's now established in two regulations as I demonstrated in the rise of neuro so use it for the advantage of your area and to reach out. Thanks a lot and there is a question from Mika Sterkin. If you introduce a new evaluation system with increased focus on socially relevant research how would you correct for potential bias between research that it is in itself already socially relevant or needs the collaboration with citizen science with citizens versus research types that don't really benefit from it other than from outreach effect for example astronomy versus health care or physics and mathematics versus sociology or environmental sciences anyone would like to comment on that? I could just start probably maybe someone else would like to compliment to my understanding the research itself is not a socially relevant research that's why we have unpublished papers, unpublished research reports and for some reason then when we switch on peer review somehow for different reasons they are not can or cannot be treated as an output what has been done by the researcher so I probably would suggest by discussing how each of us understand the research itself is it really socially relevant research because we as scientists as researchers must do research because this is part of our professional let's say this and if we refocus there's kind of a lot of things and evidence that the research activity was refocused and I think that's suggesting an improving research evaluation system it would be more it would be better for researchers to name everything what they do in everyday activity so if I come back to my country's examples we have some scientists who do citizen science but they do not name it as it is as it is defined however what we try to do is not to change the research evaluation system at this this stage but to try to accommodate citizen science in their thinking and by doing this we definitely explore what the general situation is just to bring evidence for policymakers and also to give a support by developing guidelines for example how to ensure research integrity in doing citizen science so we take a different perspective not starting from the research evaluation instantly but trying to step by step to go into the system and encourage scientists to do citizen science since it's also a part of the open science is going to be soon and it's more often discussed that it should be part of the open science so I think that if we support open science we definitely should be supporting here citizen science with the same extent and can I add just a thought on this the the question of the social relevance find it interesting to to to think of you know what what are the terms that we use in the concepts that that we that we think about and for social relevance I would I would like to suggest that we can also think of project in terms of impact what is the impact of projects and we at the participatory science academy work with this this impact logic and the idea is to think what kind of an impact does a particular project have in research so what does it add to science but also what does it add to society at large and also individual people I think there are projects and it doesn't matter what topic it is it can have a very large impact on individual people their sense of being their sense of empowerment they're kind of you know making sense of the world so I think there can be a very deep impact and it doesn't really matter what what the project is whether it's transcribing band them or you know measuring air quality so it's you know when you look at this from from an impact logic I think that you we can see more and it opens up a new way of thinking about about what what science can can do for individual people you know also just add on a little bit there I think it's also very important to to consider that impact as I said it comes in many different forms I mean it can be kind of more immediate impact from also more applied types of research but then I'm a big favor of having doing basic research and also there you may talk about an impact that may take a little bit longer but still kind of the whole point of opening the process is to not only focus on the results of the research and kind of the final conclusion but also to open the how we do these things and how we develop the knowledge within the research and I think that part is something that we can definitely develop into citizen science projects in any field really I mean after all we are I guess everything that's done in a university is done because we believe in it somehow right I mean that's that's kind of the job of university employees and university leadership is to do meaningful things in both in research and in education so and I think everything can really also be turned into a citizen science project if you just think carefully about it in fact many of the coolest citizen science projects I've seen I mean are coming from from fields where that you would not think about at all as kind of being relevant at all but they are super cool and they get really good help from citizens in their research thank you and there is also a comment from Mika Sturkin from my experience with the European project Britek with partners in Poland, Greece, Belgium and Spain I learned that especially differences in legal issues for example privacy between countries can make the administration of a citizen science project more complex and it's not really a question but rather an observation to add to Mr. Gania's answer so I don't I don't see any unanswered questions yet so I suggest to have a look at many meter and sorry Irina can I just share my observation to this observation that you just sure please please do to my mind there is and there is not an issue of privacy but there is a issue of the compliance with GDPR in the European countries because it's a new and not probably all countries are ready to get into this with the research data another problem and I would say a huge problem is that not all European countries have the same practice related to ethical review or research that covers also privacy issues so I think if we would have more homogeneous system about the ethical review we will get more experience about the compliance with GDPR I think these problems should be minimized thanks a lot so please keep writing your questions in the Q&A if you have any if you have any comments or if you'd like to share something please raise your hand and we'll let you speak and make a thank you so now let's have a look at many meter results and maybe talk a bit about them and thank you everyone who responded so I hope you can see my slides and please help me Emily if someone will be raising hand and to comment so we have 72 people who engaged and once again if you want to you can see menti.com and code 8257153 so 39 answers that researchers do talk 40 answers already that researchers do talk about open science at institutions then no don't know so I don't know probably here there is not much to comment you could comment that in a way that in a workshop like this where I guess people are particularly interested in these topics since you're coming to this workshop then even though only about how for the people actually say that it's being talked about in the university that shows that we need to talk more about it I think thanks then the next next question we asked whether your institution strategic plan includes citizen science and there are 26 responses yes and maybe if you have a link to that strategic plan and you could post it in a chat then we'll add it to the workshop page because that would be really interesting to see how you do that or if you'd like to comment a bit about that question so if you answered yes and if you would like to say a little bit how you included citizen science in your institution strategic plan please raise your hand and we'd love to hear from you and also please get in touch because in January there is a new project called time for c s time for citizen science which is about institutional abilities to integrate citizen science within different organizations and we will collect it to see how different case studies and do analysis on them so please also email me with this information thank you and I see one raised hand so let me hello to speak so you you can you can speak now if you want oh hello hello from burnout check republic mosaic university actually we are now in the development of new open science strategy and it will be discussed tomorrow actually in the afternoon you know before our our researchers etc and we prepared a strategy for open access and also for fair data and the question for tomorrow you know after we go all this process you know will be okay should we include citizen science or not you know and we hope that yes because it makes sense and the city of bernard has actually some kind of city informer city scientific and officer you know so we are in the talks with the city you know to stabilize this also for the on the city level and i will talk about it also tomorrow during my lighting talk so i would like to invite you for that also so thank you very much and looking forward to work with you in future and we will get in touch with ucl to be part of that if it is possible thank you thank you yeah thanks thank you i don't see any other raise hands so maybe we can go to next question does your institution support citizen science activities sir nsc 37 answered yes and if you would like to comment how you support sir and you can drop a line in the chat or again please raise your hand and speak because it would be interesting to hear how you'll provide this kind of institutional support and then next question was about citizen science project at your institution and 42 answered yes sir so again if if you were were one of those who said yes sir and if you'd like to mention examples of the citizen science projects sir please speak up or add some in the chat and i see roll raise the hand so i'll stop sharing and you could talk now roll it's okay now yes yes okay well we are from the citizens science project cities cities health and we have developed this project for example as and we have a new toolkit that i think it will be very interesting if you go i can send you by the chat is the name is cities citizens science toolkit dot au citizen science toolkit dot au and then you can share your best practices on citizen science here is at your story you go to the and then you can put be you can be part of this toolkit sharing the best practices on on citizen science we want having this useful toolkit to share best practices on different topics not only in them the main subject of the project that the project is about air pollution, urbanism, environmental issues and health but the toolkit is for all the citizen science projects not only environmental and health issues thank you roble fine interesting thank you thanks for sharing that and i see a question from rivia in a q&a and riva is from islamic university of gaza and she's doing a lot of excellent open access projects so her question is is it possible to extend citizen science in europe to involve developing countries in the process sir would someone like to comment about that sir what are the opportunities sir yes so so you've seen in in my project the the project that we're doing is part of me that is happening and in different developing countries there are at least two other ERC project that engage with people in different parts of the world there are also as i mentioned an association growing up in different areas so the spanish community got a really strong links to the latin america community something called recap and they can work with them on different projects and and there are also joint activities with india and in south asia so there are plenty of opportunities to do the project they require the appropriate mechanisms and there is also a very very long legacy going back to the 70s of participatory activities like participatory rural appraisal and participatory learning and action that we should learn from an integrate and now even in european projects so it's important to say that for example within the green deal a call that is currently circulating and people are preparing for it there there is a special attention to work with african countries and there is a whole scene growing there about citizens rights so absolutely possible and interesting area to work with if we could also just add in there is that i see that now also would particularly after the pandemic everything is happening online and that also makes it of course much easier to think more globally about doing also citizen science in fact the last music labs that we have been running have been online event with participation from all over the world and so that's really i mean global by design of course you may also need to kind of change some of the research questions and the way you think about conducting the research of course then also thinking about geographic location cultural differences etc but that should then be embedded into the research design i think to make it relevant thanks a lot i don't see any other questions and raise hands so maybe we can go back to the mentor so next question was about some examples of citizen science projects in institutions and there are some links there will add these examples to the workshop page so thanks a lot for adding them so you can see some examples with it to super computer facilities and high performance computing open journal of mathematics and physics maybe if someone is from this open journal of mathematics and physics you can comment sir how how you involve citizens that would be interesting to hear water lab linguistics several projects are primary and secondary schools and some examples citizen lab anyone would like to comment on those examples and then the next question was about a central unit in your university responsible for citizen science and we have six yes responses maybe if you could say i don't know maybe type in a chat or raise your hand and speak up which unit is that because i think that that's interesting from from an institutional perspective if you could also then add there is also a question whether there should be a central unit or if there should be kind of more embedded into the the university at large but then if so how and it's also an interesting question i think yeah that's actually a very good question because was it was it a central unit or was it really embedded sir in all in faculties in library in ict like it was mentioned an inga please you know you raised your hand yeah i wanted to add to this question indeed is there a need of a central unit but alexander you mentioned we need it department library the several units in the university to support this and to work together with the researchers on this but if there is no central unit how how do you do it how do you approach it to make sure that it's there and that's the first question the second question is more going to to mookie you have this research center for citizen science what how was it induced how did they started that how was the concept there okay we can do this and we can go long so it's it's a two-way question it's the central support on the one hand and secondly how do you get to such a research center so the research center came out so that's why i have shown the work i'll start from that because that thing you've seen it's a story of 20 years and i can share the bruises and the whole experience it's actually been that's why i'm so much highlighting the budget i'm sometimes even talking about the hypochrit syndrome which is different from the imposter syndrome that when you're writing research applications that are about say human computer interaction or technology well what you really want to progress is the participatory methodology and at the moment the the fashion is on one thing so you write the application in the right way you deliver on what it is so it's not that you're not delivering on what the application is but you couldn't explicitly talk about participatory activities and it's been a huge pleasure to live actually in a situation where you can apply for citizens science and say that that's what you're doing it's been a huge difference in terms of well-being and feeling about that so it was a long story about developing this area starting from the margin and slowly noticing how different activities are how we integrated into it also for quite a while a long period i was acting as the university unit for that in the sense that people were getting in touch about project where they said i have a participatory part can you please support me in this activity and i kind of engage with different activities which is why i have no links with the public health with with people in human computer interaction with people in physics chemistry and all diversity the process of creating the university center emerged from once the discussion on open science evolved then there was this championship from the library and the amazing activity i always have to mention it of what polaris done with ucl press which is outstanding in in providing such a fantastic support for open access publications but then as open science discussion emerged into also including citizen science that created an opportunity to work together and start building up the center and because we already had communities and links and other things and you've seen that there were already things happening in the background it was possible to kind of demonstrate to the management and university hey we are doing all this work this is getting attention at policy level there was the level report that Daniel wrote and other things like that that helped the process in getting it so for people on this call you don't need to go through all this trouble you now have exactly what i mentioned earlier you have the regulations you have the cause of horizon europe you now have the level report you'll have other examples and you should just go for it i would like to to ask you a question i may add one point here many years ago when we started this we recognized immediate that should be kind of a central unit namely to attract people from outside if every researcher looks for his own citizens we never get anywhere so there is an advantage of whatever you call it a common gate a common portal to citizen science at the university which can be as mookies are used for policy but in fact just for attracting citizens thank you Daniel and please Jean-Pierre yes just first of all thank you very much for your presentation which was very very interesting i think but at this time i still have a lot of questions for sure concerning citizen science you expressed a lot of questions concerning the the quality the motivation the assessment the integrity etc etc it's very very important but my main question is how could we show that citizen science contribute really to the trust of the society in science and i think in our society where the fake news the social networks etc give a lot of false information do you think that citizen science allow to encourage the confidence the trust of the society in science it's a very general question sorry no answer okay i mean this was originally of course main as a moment of the main reasons for doing citizen science and i we we don't have a question on that but clearly people who have been involved in projects have been very positive about the i believe that it is a positive development here maybe too small to act against conspiracies that works much easier but i think there is a positive effect here already visible i look at my watch and it seems that we have come to to the end of the time a lot but of course Inge and Irina might give you more time but otherwise i would have a discussion i believe many questions i for all the questions i i lose my head looking at the questions and looking at you i would like to give back to Inge to Irina to say a few wise words to the end thank you and maybe to make again a breach with open science i think if this citizen science process is participatory and open and if everyone can really go to the source and check her i think that that's also a tool to fight misinformation and we already see this happening with preprints when preprints are really discussed and some of them are retracted when feedback and peer review is provided so that's another reason why we decided to merge citizen science and open science into one workshop because for us that's an important topic and over to you Inge for final words and thanks again everyone very interesting yeah so this was the first part of our two-day workshop tomorrow morning we have another session starting at 10 where we actually will have two panel discussions panels one is on the Barcelona case where we will discuss how a city and a university together take part in the citizen science and then we'll have an open air session where we will highlight the activities in open air around citizen say citizen science enabling open science and we have a few lightning talks because we want to give the word to the people out there who are also in this call to show what they are doing in their own countries in their own institutions so i hope to see you all again tomorrow have a nice day and see you tomorrow bye and there is one more question in the last question in the q&a from from shimon i wonder if there is a need for a special license for crowdsourced crowdsourced dataset made by multiple people which will save them yes there is it's called open database license and it's the license that is being used by open straight map it was created by open street map for the community and it's from the bottom up project so you got it there thank you so much thanks again everyone have a wonderful day and hope to see you tomorrow and like i said we'll make her all the links or recording slides etc available on this workshop page here well thank you and see you tomorrow bye