 Welcome everybody to another edition of the nonprofit show. We're really excited today to have our guest on Evan Haglund. He's the US director of an organization called Wise Zambia And today we're going to talk about something that Evan in almost 700 episodes of the nonprofit show doing this for three and three years I don't think we've ever had this conversation and that is how do you work in a place like Africa? But that you fund race here in the US and what does that all look like? So we're really excited to have this conversation with you, but before we really get into it I want to introduce myself if you don't know who I am I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy and I am not being joined today by the nonprofit nerd Jared Ransom. She has a few days off. She'll be joining us back later in the week Again, we want to thank all of our presenting sponsors These are the amazing folks that allow us to have this conversation that we do with folks like Evan Haglund Day in and day out. We want to extend our thanks to Blumerang American nonprofit Academy Your part-time controller be generous fundraising Academy at National University Staffing boutique nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit nerd We also want to make sure that you know if how to get back to our archives as I mentioned We have our on pace right almost at about 700 episodes And so if you want to find out or share Any of our content you can find us on Roku YouTube Vimeo and Amazon fire TV You can also download us on wherever you like to get your podcast content And again share that with all the folks that you know, okay Evan Haglund welcome back I've done my housekeeping now. It's all about you my friend. All right You know, you have a very interesting story because I feel like you're such an educated man who Didn't have any connection to Africa until all of a sudden you did and it seems like it Kind of changed your life. Could you share that story with us? Yeah, well, it actually started out with with a police shooting here in Phoenix, which is not the normal way a Sudanese refugee was walking along I-17 here in Phoenix was shot by a Department of Public Safety officer and His uncle came to the law firm as working out at the time To see if we wouldn't represent the family in a civil rights lawsuit against the state of Arizona We took it. We had a dash cam. We felt it was a strong case But the his family was still on a refugee camp in northern Uganda and someone had to go Visit with the family get background information They had all the same rights as a client here in the US. So we had to make sure they understood all that So someone had to go to the Illeri to refugee camp 10 miles south of then Sudan To visit with them and at the time the State Department advised against going to northern Uganda So it was like I'm not going I'm not going and all right. I went now. I want to make it clear I'm not going with any philanthropic or whatever Yeah, I'm going we want to make money on this lawsuit um But I got to that refugee camp and I mean it was a life-changing experience first I met with on the The decedent's father Pastor David Abrigo who is one of the I'm still in touch with him In in the middle of nowhere. He's giving back. He's running an orphanage He's ministering to other not only refugees, but Ugandans in the area and it's like I've never seen anyone in the US Give back the way this man is giving back to his community and he's doing it with no resources and But just this whole situation and getting to know these people I I hate saying that sounded bad But you know the the folks I was around and it was life-changing Talk to us about first of all, where is Zambia and then what why Zambia does and what your your philanthropic mission is if you will Okay, well Zambia is a landlocked country in the southern part of Africa. It's two countries north of South Africa Okay It's absolutely an amazing country The people the the scenery, you know I always say it has a lot of similarities with Arizona Coppers remain Natural resource it's hot. They have one of the seven natural wonders of the world It just seems like stuff like we have the Grand Canyon. They have Victoria Falls So I feel kind of feel at home in Zambia terms of our mission Which has evolved over the years, but I'm really Very proud of what we have done and we means mostly the people in Zambia But you know our mission statement is kind of the normal vague one that you get from nonprofits We support empowerment and economic independence for vulnerable children in Zambia through educational vocational and agricultural initiatives That's the quote official mission statement, but the reality is we actually have five pillars and What the first of them is high hanging fruit We are working way out in the western province, which is about the poorest area of Zambia You know a fairly high child marriage rate much of the province has yet to be electrified And so we're going into communities that are either underserved or in many cases completely unserved The other a key component is that we make long-term commitments to our students You know, I see so many nonprofits that believe they have one year to accomplish anything And it's just not going to work. We begin working with students in the eighth grade when any even hope for Formal education ends typically in the seventh grade in these rural areas, but we commit to our students Not just to get them out of the cycle of poverty But actually to achieve their potential and that's another one was no ceilings is what we call it I love that. I mean, that's a long view I mean, I would imagine because of that you're joining with these these kids and their families and their communities I mean, it's it's a pretty it sounds like it's a pretty in-depth Peace go on and talk about your your other pillars because I interrupted you Well, that that one's related to no ceilings and I just I was there and I Went one of the first schools we began working with was one called no key and literally if you don't have a four-wheel drive You're not getting there. No student had ever Be gone beyond the seventh grade in this community's history at least of which we're aware and so we began on Providing opportunities and this is a whole story that again We don't have time but one of the first students that accepted one of our scholarships is now a Public Health nursing student at Lewinocca nursing school and she's winning awards from the Zambian nursing Association for the best grades in the country and the best performance and I'm thinking The untapped human potential in these areas is absolutely amazing I mean, honestly, we have students again from communities where the seventh grade was a cap. We're now studying civil engineering Biomedicine environmental sciences, you know, education and the whole idea is Again to have them achieve their full potential And I it's hard to not we're not trying to make little incremental changes but but that leads to the final or you know, and I kind of skip in a order but You know giving back is one of our main pillars Every one of our students commits to giving back to their families their communities and in fact their country We've had graduates who run for political office. We encourage civic Participation we even make sure the african version of the economist is available at our office for our students to read So Evan, it's really interesting because I Think a lot of times in philanthropy We have this sense of we want to do good because we want to feel good and It's like a drop-in drop-out kind of thing, but it seems to me that you really as an organization Are looking at this as a much deeper Relationship and in talking about leadership seems to be one of those things. How do you empower? your african partners and students Participants to think that way Because that's a pretty heavy lift Well, we have I think I Went by the way the photo. I believe that's up is Maggie and dobu who is our Zambia director and I want to make clear She doesn't work for me or us We actually have a separate organization why Zambia registered under Zambian laws and if anything, she's my superior I love it, but we do try to work together Because nothing is going to work if you don't have the body not just the buy-in but the desire, you know This is their country not my country, although I'm beginning to feel fairly Zambia and myself but But but we've got a really good symbiotic relationship working in my opinion on because you know sometimes You know Zambia's role is programming and I can't tell you she's on the ground like this year We we've reached kind of a critical number of 500 students going into 2023 and that's just in secondary school as part of our model all of our students go on to tertiary or post-secondary and on You know, we've got over 50 and that number is going to grow dramatically in the next few years so But she's recognizing we have a need for mental health Counseling for our students. So that's beginning in 2023 She's recognized the need, you know, the schools are really focused on teaching to the test So we're trying to broaden and her with her initiative. We've created a creative writing program To help expand by the way, we've gotten 50 stories from our students. I read them mesmerizing so that is some of the things But there it's a symbiotic relationship because I'll give you an example I mentioned the student who's in Luanaka. She's actually getting a diploma in public health nursing and She's doing so well. She mentioned to to Maggie. Did you know we can get a bachelor's degree in? Maggie's yeah, just even a master's degree in public health nursing. Maggie's yeah, you know, so but sometimes We can add something especially when you're dealing With people who've not had a whole lot of global perspective. So sometimes Maggie clearly knows the local environment and what is going on in the ground and what needs to be done They're so much better, but every now and then we can provide a global perspective that helps in deciding You know, one of the things we're concerned is you see the whole fourth industrial revolution coming on What can we do to ensure that not only our students, but Zambia itself is prepared for what's going to be a serious industrial revolution within the world You know, it's so interesting One of the things that we say so much in my office is you only know what you know and and that is Really impactful if you think about dealing with communities where The seventh grade is the highest level of education And so then to work with with people and help give them a different perspective or broaden their horizon It's pretty interesting and probably Somewhat daunting in order to let them reach their highest potential It's a challenge. Yeah without question. I mean, there's so many You know, one of the things we did is we took the six of our students with leadership potential up to the World's Fair in Dubai in February Interesting way to introduce students to the whole world Because we believe these students are going to be future leaders of Zambia. Yeah, not just political but in there and You know, we're organizing field trips to things like the Lower Kifui Dam Where our students start thinking about how how does our nation get its energy? We're going to go to the Lusaka International the Kenneth Gwanda International Airport in Lusaka just to kind of introduce the whole concept of transportation and not just for for careers but just promoting No, and promoting curiosity. We're trying to create curiosity among our students I love that and that's something that we don't Talk about enough as a way to Solve world problems as well. I mean because you do have to be curious about other things I think in order to Align with other people and especially we see that in the philanthropic world, you know, I'm really interested Ask this next question and I really want to spend more time on this. I Love your work. I think you're doing the work of the angels. I get it. I think it's fabulous But the reality is there's an argument to be made that we have Issues and problems that need to be funded here on our own soil How do we? communicate or engage or build relationships So that donors here will care about something on a continent that frankly most of them will never even visit or even if they know Anybody who's even visited. How do you do that? Well, I would encourage everyone to consider visiting Africa or Zambia in particular It's absolutely gorgeous, but not that's beside but now to get to your question The reality is if we want to start solving global problems Climate change pandemics Supply chain issues you name it. These problems are no longer within national borders and The reality is these problems are not going to be solved without the input of Leaders and thinkers from Africa. I mean Bill Gates has a fantastic video that shows the Population trends for the next 40 to 50 years Africa is the youngest continent North America's getting older Europe's getting older China's getting older Japan's already old you know, whereas the youth and And and when you see the potential of these students you realize there was These are the people who are going to be Solving our world's problems a if you really care about these issues You can't think borders. Who is really working on getting the you know, creating the scenarios to make our world a better place Wow Evan, I love that No matter what you do in philanthropy. I love that approach and wow I don't believe That we've ever had anyone on the nonprofit show Actually articulate that or draw those parallels. It's it's a really interesting interesting Conversation to have because especially in the US where we're so state-oriented Regionally oriented and then we have so much of a breakdown and civil, you know discourse I mean, obviously we're we're talking about elections at this time of the year. It makes it even more stressful I've got to ask How many of your donors or the conversations that you have where you lead with that? Do people I mean, can they go beyond that concept or are they like wow, okay? I get it. I'm because that's pretty that's a pretty bold way to get to the end product or invent and investment in why Zambia Well, and that is that's our mission is to As with anything it clearly resonates with some But coupled with that message, we're not talking telling people to not think locally I mean, I give locally sure, but you know, I say just like your investment portfolio is diversified you need to diversify your Philanthropic or your giving portfolio It shouldn't be and I will tell you often You will find that in terms of actual impact for a dollar spent is greater when you give in Developing nations versus here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean undoubtedly the dollar must be Incredibly powerful and go further in terms of of where you're going. Well, I tell people, you know $200 gets a student through, you know Right now three thousand dollars. We get a student from the eighth grade through college That in Zambia. I mean you've literally changed a life for that amount of money not bought, you know Where can you do that? I mean and I say not just change a life potentially change the world Because each one of these it's a ripple effect. Each one of our students will be giving back And we're seeing that by the way, even though our program being long term We're just now beginning to see the the ripple effect, but it's working Well, you know It's such an interesting thing because if you think about I keep going back to and I've never been to the African continent But I go back to a community where somebody on, you know, nobody's nobody's going past the seventh grade And then you bring these people back with this education The impact's got to be really tremendous and and community altering and probably super tough Probably super super tough, you know Definitely, yeah, but Go ahead, I'm in I interrupt you know, I'm not I actually In this last trip I made it back or I made it to no key the first community first time I've been there just because of the difficulty getting there But we're seeing such initially there was some skepticism. We only have three students take our scope on our I call it educational empowerment program because it's far one of our pillars is 360 degree support It's not just a scholarship. I mean it's mentoring counseling whatever it takes to get our students to succeed But we went from three to every student in the school going leaving to go into boarding school about 100 kilometers away To the point where the Zambia Ministry of General Education says we can't have our dorms all plug We're going to build a high school there. I mean It's just we're we're seeing actual institutional change and like to say these students are going into nursing but We kind of have a problem many of them are going into nursing because that first student Pellechilo is kind of their role model now It's like there are other things out there guys I love it. I think that's fabulous. Well, you know, uh healthcare certainly if we have learned nothing in the last You know 36 48 months. I mean this is is a definite, uh field that we need to Really support and increase So i'm going to get you to get out your crystal ball and shine it up And tell me what you see for why Zambia going forward In like the next three to five years because you travel to Africa Twice a year, right? Right But in the pandemic you obviously had to pull back on that But what are you seeing as we're coming out of this going into other things? Do you have any sense of What's cooking? I do By the way, they didn't miss me during the pandemic. That was what's in turret. They did just fine, you know um, but uh 2023 should be a great year. We right now We're in our headquarters is in a community called Kaloma And we work in the rural villages and three of the districts are kind of like counties for lack of a better Kaloma, uh, kaiyama and uh the luampan districts But uh starting in early 2023. We're going to open our first branch office in a new community in a very rural area And uh like to say we're starting both career guidance and mental health counseling for all of our students in 2023 It's been done on an informal basis, but we're creating a much more formalized program We're actually for the career guidance Art and I told you the giving backs part of our program It's going to be spearheaded by two two of our students who just graduated this year And they're going to come back and Um during off, you know, when they will be present going to all of our schools presenting career guidance programming for our students um in in secondary school The other thing i'm very excited about is uh, we partnered with the philanthropic arm of hdr engineering One of the largest engineering firms in the world and they helped us design Revolutionary school design now. We don't build schools, but we do need one on our campus for english Training or whatever, but we believe this design. It's it's just revolutionary using materials and whatever in zambia, but will greatly uh Improve the educational environment for students And we're going to do a model for that. Um, and we're hoping it catches on and you start seeing it throughout zambia's western province and And and we hope to not just be limited to the western province at some point You know, um Where our time is almost up and it's amazing because I have so many questions Um, how old is why zambia? How old is your organization? We were actually founded in 2003 Oh, okay, but on the our but we started as a women's empowerment program Which is good, but in 2012 without there were some Working with our folks in zambia We shifted it into more of an educational empowerment program We've not given up on the women's empowerment in that We try to work with a uh, 70 30 or 75 25 kind of female to male ratio in terms of students we we support but uh So our program itself is probably about not quite 10 years old this year wow And then um, only because we've chatted about this before off-camera You are the very while you've been involved with why zambia for quite a while You're the very first like official paid executive director, correct? Yes So how do you think that's going to You know propel you forward it seems like it's gonna, you know, really put you um On a quicker track moving forward. I'm certainly hoping so Uh, it's it's really hard every year. We've expanded by like 50 students in our scholarship program And we typically get between 1200 and 1500 applications for 50 spots And this trip was actually out a a an economic development expo in mongu western province And literally every district leader came up. When are you coming to our district? When are you coming to our district? So if I can do my job a big F pertents, but It's not like the need isn't there on And last story, I don't know where we are in time But I actually had the opportunity to speak with the district administrator for the kaoman district And we had a one-on-one Talked for about 30 minutes and he's just saying, you know, when you're working out in a developing area of the country You see quite a few NGOs Um, and he goes, but I don't often see results Wow And he says wow With with with why zambia i'm saying I can point to results. I see them. I see students graduating. I see students going on to college And by the way, this isn't just him talking. He actually unfortunately, he swings by with more people Help this person help this person, you know Yeah, yeah So we're hoping to get a videotape interview with this gentleman In the near future just to show, you know, the support we're getting from the The local government amazing. Well, you know, it's been Really cool to talk with you. Evan hagland executive director us executive director of why zambia I love love love your your own personal origination story and connection to philanthropy. I think that's super powerful And we need to get you back on later in 2023 to find out What some of your lessons are and and how things are going because it's really an exciting opportunity to see How organizations can flourish and and do better For all of us in a global capacity. So thank you, Evan so much for being on the non-profit show today Check out why's w i s e zambia z a m b i a dot org their website is amazing And um, Evan has a fabulous blog post About turning a certain age And how his birthday impacted his notion of gift giving and and phases of life. It's a it's really a powerful story Again, i'm julia patrick. You will see jared ranson back with us in just a couple of days And we want to make sure that we thank all of our presenting sponsors who allow us to have these amazing conversations Blumerang american non-profit academy your part-time controller be generous fundraising academy at national university Staffing boutique non-profit Uh, excuse me. Yeah, non-profit thought leader and the non-profit nerd. Hey, Evan hagglen. You've really inspired me. You've started me off In a great way for the week. Thank you Thanks so much julia. Appreciate you having me Uh Yeah, it's been great. I keep up the good work. I love so much of what you said today I think there's so many parts of it that we can all learn from And as we like to end every episode I want to remind our viewers our listeners Our guests ourselves To stay well So you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow everyone