 What's happening? Welcome to another episode of In the Zone. I'm your host, Chris Broussard. And we got a great show for you once again today. Of course, we got knockdown, Jay. We got a special surprise for you in that where I show off my acting chops with Jason McIntyre. We're going to have a lot of fun in there. And then, of course, we got a great interview with Joe Vardon, who does a terrific job covering LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers for Cleveland.com. That's going, what a time to talk Cavs, right? So great interview there. But first, as always, we're going to do our top five. And this week, the reserves for the Eastern Conference and the Western Conference were named. And boy, there are some people who are upset that they did not make the All-Star team. So I'm going to give you my top five All-Star snubs. So you can call it the All-Snub team if you like. But here it goes. At number five, Nikola Jokic. The six-foot 10-inch do everything center for the Denver Nuggets. 16 points a game. 10 rebounds a game. Five assists a game. That's the team high. They've got a starting backcourt of two shooting guards. So Jokic is essentially their point guard. And he does a great job of running the offense, running the team. With Paul Millsap playing only 15 games, Jokic has the nuggets fighting for a playoff spot in the rugged West. At number four, CP3 Chris Paul. He'd be higher on this list and he'd definitely be an All-Star if he hadn't missed 17 games. And I got to admit one of the greatest point guards ever. But I couldn't put him on the All-Star team in the West missing 17 games. But he is playing lights out, ball surprising me and virtually everybody by fitting in so well in Houston. 19 points, nine assists and 40% from three. I believe with Chris Paul and James Harden, the Rockets now have a legitimate chance to beat Golden State. I'm going to say 30%. That's legit nowadays. Nobody else has a double-figures chance of beating Golden State. 30% the Rockets, Chris Paul at number four. At number three, Andre Drummond Detroit Piston Center leads their league and rebounding 15 boards a game, gives you 14 points by far the highest P-E-R on the team and drops four assists a game. That's pretty good for a center third on the team. Look, I love the professionalism of Al Horford. I love his intangibles. I love his defensive ability. But on an individual level, Andre Drummond is far more productive. Drummond should have been in the game. At number two, big Lou, should I say little Lou or just Lou? Lou Williams having a terrific season. It's not an overstatement to say he is carrying the LA Clippers. Blake Griffiths missed 15 games. Danilo Gallinari and Patrick Beverly have only played 11 games each and he has the Clippers in position to make the playoffs in the West. That is incredible. His best season of his career by far makes you wonder if a team had just given Lou the basketball in the years past what he may have become. But anyway, 23 points a game over the last two months, 26 points a game. Some people think he should have made the All-Star Team just by on the basis of dropping 50 on Golden State in a victory for the Clippers a couple weeks ago. Hate to see Lou miss it, but yo, it's tough in the West. At number one, the biggest snub of this All-Star season, Paul George in Oklahoma City. It's not outrageous. It's not unbelievable like his teammate Russell Westbrook said, but you can argue George should have been on the team. 42% shooting from three, 20 points a game and the team is playing much better now. But here's the deal for Paul George. Look, bro, you in the West now. This is what you wanted. You wanted to leave the East and go to the West. There are some benefits to being in the Eastern Conference. You would have been an All-Star. There's no doubt about it if you had stayed in the East, but now you're in the West. It's a lot more difficult and it looks like you're going to stay in the West. If you stay at OKC or go to LA and it's not going to get any easier to make All-Star teams, Paul, what if LeBron goes West? What if Blake Griffin and Chris Paul stay healthy when Kawhi Leonard gets back? I mean, what if when Devon Booker and Andrew Wiggins and Donovan Mitchell come of age, it's going to be tough to make an All-Star team, but this is what you wanted. You wanted to go West. Be careful what you wish for, man. This is how it is. So maybe you'll be a free agent. Look at some of those Eastern Conference teams if you want to make more All-Star games. So, hey, I hate to put it that way, Paul. I wouldn't have been mad if you had made the team. You're certainly playing great basketball, but this is your new reality. Welcome to the West. Those are your top All-Star snubs of 2018. All right, here we go. Another segment of Knock Down, Jay. One of my favorite parts of In the Zone because I get to knock down. Try, Jay. Try, not. What you got for me this week, man? I'm tired of pounding on you. Bring some strong stuff. Pretty incredible week in the NBA, right? I mean, so much happening, but we're going to focus on your Ohio team, the Cleveland Cavaliers. Listen, there is speculation about should they fire Tyloo? Should they train Kevin Love? You know, what's the main problem in Cleveland? Is it the defense? Is it the oldest roster in the league? Chris, I'm going to surprise you here. I believe the number one problem with the Cleveland Cavaliers is LeBron James and the uncertainty of LeBron's future. I don't think that the Cavs can make a move without knowing LeBron's future and everybody. Everybody is in self-preservation mode. Isaiah Thomas. I got to get my shots. I got to get my contract. Kevin Love. Wait, wait, wait. Stop. Stop right there. Isaiah Thomas. I got to get my shots up. He's a free agent this summer. Oh, yeah. What does that have to do with LeBron? He's worrying about himself because LeBron's worrying about himself. You don't think he would be worrying about himself anyway? This is a dude that was fifth in the league in MVP voting last year and makes $6 million a year. 29 points a game last year. And he's what, 28 years old, something like that? He's family? This is his last big deal. LeBron could be signed for the next 20 years in Cleveland. Isaiah Thomas still would be concerned about that contract. I mean, yes, he would, yes. But I don't think that he's the next deal. I don't think he's the number one problem. I believe the number one problem in Cleveland is LeBron James and his uncertainty heading into the off season. LeBron, there was uncertainty in 2010. LeBron's last year in Cleveland in his first game. Yeah. How did that end? They won 61 games. How did it end in the playoffs? They lost to the Big Three, which was a great Boston team. In the second round. But it was a great team they lost to. Was there some soaking from LeBron? Was there some soaking in that sense? But what's that got to do? You said other players are messed up because LeBron is in the last year. Kevin Love in a team meeting. My point is, what's that got to do with the last year? Everybody mentally is rattled. Let me make the point. 2010, they won 61 games. They lost to a great Boston team. If one of the major reasons they lost that series was because LeBron really didn't play that well like his normal self in the last few games. Do you think he was thinking now? Go back to 2010. Do you think he was thinking about free agents? No, I don't. I think he was trying to win. A month later, he organized like the banana boat team. That's what you do. That's what every player does. You play out the season and then you deal with free agents. Okay. 2014. He's in Miami. Same thing. Free agent might leave. They go to the finals. They lose to a great Santa. Like Kevin Durant last year or his last year in OKC. Everybody knows. Same deal. He might leave. He's a free agent. He hasn't committed to us. They're up 3-1 on the Warriors. I mean, what are you like? Boy, Chris, here it is. My point is players don't like the last. It happens every year with God. So, Chris, look back up. Because this is in his last year in Oklahoma, in New Orleans. Does that mean it's messing up his teammates? Let's back up to my statements. I say the number one problem in Cleveland is LeBron James. It sounds like you say there's no problems. Oh, everything's fine. No, what I'm saying is the number one problem. Their problems are not tied to LeBron being in his last year. So, tell me what the problem is. I just gave you several examples of how teams with a guy in there with LeBron or another great player in his last year have success. They might not win the title. So, tell me, what are the problems in Cleveland? The problems in Cleveland, one, there are the oldest team in the league. That's a problem. They can't guard, right? No. And it's not new. Last year, they couldn't guard. They were 22nd in the league defensively. After the All-Star break, they were 29th in the league defensively. Very bad second half. So, my point is that wasn't related to it. That had nothing to do with LeBron. His contract was set. You knew he was coming back. They still couldn't guard. They can't guard. They got a bunch of disjointed pieces. Duane Wade, Derek Rose and Isaiah Thomas are darn near the same player. I mean, Isaiah is obviously much shorter. That's a problem because he can't guard anybody. But they're darn near the same player. J.R. Smith has vanished. His game is falling apart. I like J.R. Smith. And my shumper, they ain't giving you anything. He's hurt. He's hurt. You know, Kevin Love, God bless him, playing really good offensively before Isaiah came back when his shots went down. But defensively, he couldn't. I think you could drop 7 on him. That's all? I mean, like, yeah, that's all. That's all. I'm 0.7 up. But that's my point. Like, I get LeBron, the last 12 games, only 22 points a game. 20% from 3 during that stretch. But to say it's all because he's a free agent and there's certainty, no way. Let's go to my man. Unless you got something else to say. No, no, I didn't. I mean, that was like, no. That was one of the biggest beatdowns I've given you on this show. Let's go to Mr. Lynch. Mr. Andrew Lynch. Sorry, J. Matt. Chris takes round one. LeBron status is a problem, but it's the age and it's the fact that it's the regular season. That's the biggest problem for the Cavs. Regular season. Well said, Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. And he wrote on the FoxBoards.com website so he knows exactly what he's talking about. Yes, he does. All right, look what? This is a perfect segue. Brith, come hard and don't bring the weak stuff. The weak stuff. This is a perfect segue to our second topic. So as you said, the Cavs, three and nine in their last 12. Yes. I think we should do a hypothetical game, Chris, where you are Dan Gilbert and I'm LeBron coming to you on how to fix the Cleveland Cavaliers. Do you want to play along? All right. Okay. So I'm going to knock on the door. All right, I'm Dan Gilbert. Hey, Dan, what's up? No, not on the phone. This is a face-to-face. Oh, this is a face-to-face. Come on, hey. What you want? Dan, disrespectful to the greatest player in fans history. Hey, LeBron, what's happening? Hey, good to see you, Dan. Dan, nice to see you. It's surprising. Yeah, I know. I haven't talked to you in a while. That's how bad I want to win. You usually don't come up here and show me love. How bad I want to win. And I saw... You're smiling too? Dan, I saw what's going on in the lead. Have some wine. I got some wine. Oh, red wine. You love wine. Did you see Yannis? Great relationship with his owner in Milwaukee. Could have tried to save Jason Kidd. You see Damien Lillard, Portland, went right to the owner. Okay. Good relationship. So that's what you want. I'm coming to you, Dan. Okay. I want to know. I got LeBron. I want... The contract is right here. Oh, okay. You don't have to... Sign the extension and stay. Is that what you want? We'll get to that in a second, Dan. Okay. I get to it. Bring it on. You know what I'm doing at the age of 33 is almost unforeseen. Go look at what Michael Jordan did in his 15th year in the lead. He's not putting up with... I'm a top five MVP candidate. Okay. And I think we're close. We can get out of the East, no problem. Now, you think we can get out of this? Yes. Okay. My question is beat the wears. And I want every fiber that I've got to beat Golden State. And Dan, I got to say, I think you messed things up last summer when you traded Kyrie Irving. It was a little irrational. I messed these up. And I want you... I messed these up. Yes. I want you and Kobe Irving. You had nothing to do with it. I want you... I didn't trade him. I didn't trade Kyrie. Part of the reason he wanted to go was he was tired of playing with you. You're the leader. You should have sat us down in the room and said, Kyrie, let's work this out. We've got two top 10 players in the NBA. You're the leader. You're the leader. I'm the leader. You're the owner of the team. You're the leader of that locker room. You're worth a billion dollars. If I had texted you and said, LeBron, let's sit down and talk with Kyrie. What was your... I would have said, let's do it. Communication, Dan. You are a leader, man. All right. That's your point. No, no. So I want to ask you, you got to send this message in. Oh, no. Now you jumping on me. Okay. All right. I'll sell that. You know I'm... You know I got small man's complex. So I can't handle that. All right. Kyrie Irving, because I traded him, that's why we're in the situation we're in. Wasn't Kyrie Irving there last year when we got demolished? Demolished by Golden State in the finals. Kyrie Irving, I'd love to have Kyrie. He was great. He is great. He was the second best player on our team. No question about it. Yes, you were phenomenal. You are best player. Thank you for that. Geez, Dan. I'm just saying Kyrie was great. He was. And we still were no match for them. So don't tell, don't come in here jumping on me for trading Kyrie Irving. Great. Well you just gassed him up and yet you traded him for damaged goods in Isaiah. Go look at him at practice. He can't defend a chair. Okay? And Jay Crowder, it's pretty clear he was a system guy and boss. So did you come to complain or did you come because you have a possible solution? Well I came because I want to talk about solutions. Okay. Let's get to solutions. I know there's talk about DeAndre Jordan. He could help us as a rim protector. I'm okay. If you are interested in make that happen. The guy I want you to go get, go get me Paul George. He can defend on the wing. He is a good defender. He's shooting over 40% from three. He's the guy. I know DeMarcus Cousins is playing. Well, I gave him a shout out on social media, you know, because he's looking good. I don't think he defends at the level we're going to need. Paul George is the guy we need to help against the Warriors. He's the defender we need on the wing. Dan, can you deliver? LeBron, when I came to you this past summer and said we could, we could get Paul George and Eric Bledsoe for Kyrie Irving. If George will even stay, George will even stay beyond this year, at least one year. He'll give us at least next year to make it work. If you sign on the dotted line. Like I said, the contract is here. The pen is here. You wouldn't do it, LeBron. I got to keep my options open, Dan. I don't know if you guys are doing anything in your bowels. That's who I want right now. Can you get us Paul George? Will you stay? Let's not go back at the revisionist history. Will you stay? If I go get Paul George, and first of all, Oklahoma City saying they don't want to trade him. They looking, you know, they've been playing better. They're going to try to make it work. If I part with the next pick and it can get me Paul George, will you sign on the dotted line to stay here the long term? At least the next four years. I can't do that, but I'm telling you it would be. Why can't you do it? It would be the show of solidarity between us, that you are doing everything in your power to keep me here in Cleveland. Remember, I came here and I delivered you a championship. I brought you millions and millions of dollars to the city, to this arena, to your business, to this team, and I will get it again. Those casinos got your name written all over. I will bring it to you. Another one, if you get me Paul George. Mr. Lin. No, we ain't done. We ain't done. I thought I would go. We ain't done. We ain't done. LeBron, I need, why won't you sign? Let me just, let me, let me, look, you a business man, just like you're actually a mogul. I'm a business. You are exactly, Jay-Z, see? You didn't think I was here? Yeah. We should hang sometimes. See, LeBron, I be wanting to hang. Yeah, that's wonderful. I know Jay-Z. I can hang with you guys. We'll go out and Cleveland soon. You enrich in math. Take me along, brother. But anyway, LeBron, what am I to do? If you leave, if you, if I trade that Brooklyn pick for you and you, you're here and I get Paul George. And then at the end of the season, you, let's say we don't beat the Warriors because they're a great team. We have a chance, but we might not see how it plays out. And you and Paul leave at the end of the year. What am I left with? I don't know. Kevin Loven and I now got to sign Isaiah. Let's focus on the immediacy. The now. Can we get that? The Warriors. My insurance, LeBron, you can't look. You left me high and dry in 2010. I can't let that happen. That's when you got me 37 year old Shaq Antoine Jamison. And against you guys, it was enough to win us 66 games and 61 games. Do I need Paul George to beat the Warriors in the finals? Can you make it happen? And I need you to sign on the dotted line. Well, it seems what we've got here is a little problem. LeBron, I cannot. It would be. Are we better than the Warriors if you got Paul George? I believe we are. Yes. Did you believe we were better than him last year? I think we were close. We beat him two years ago. Did you believe we were better than him last year? Well, Kevin Durant changed the game. We had nobody anticipated that. Did you believe we were better than him last year? I always believe we are the best team I've ever seen. So you ain't saying nothing right now. If I don't get you Paul George, do you believe we better? That's what I want. LeBron. If you got on your sword, if we lose to Golden State, we go out swinging. I don't want to hear this moping. We don't have enough. I didn't say that. That was a medium. Then talk to your boys. That was a media. Then talk to your boys. Talk to whoever went to the media. Hey, that's not my job. ESPNCalyland.com, the athletic. Yeah, I know. I saw that article. Don't talk to them. Don't talk to them and say, look, we got enough. We got enough in this locker room. Kevin Love, you're a 2010 guy. Isaiah Thomas, you are an MVP candidate. I'm the best way in the world. D Wade, you still got something left. I'd like to say that kind of fire. Kyle Corvin, you're one of the best shooters around. 36, but... Go to them and say that. You're the leader. I'm not the coach. And let's take that shot. That's the coach's job. Go get me Paul George. Every time I turn on ESPN, Fox Sports, every time I watch these guys, they say you the coach. So what's up with that? I'm not the coach. I'm just a player, one of the greatest in NBA history who brought this city a title. All I need from you is Paul George and we'll do it again. Man, get out of my office. All right, Mr. Lynch. First of all, that's a fantastic, Daniel. That might be my favorite performance of 2018. I got some acting chops. I've been in a movie. I was in hashtag reality high. Hollywood, come see me. Come see me. Can confirm. I'm going to go with Jay Mac on this one, though, because I think that LeBron is going to do what he can to convince Dan Gilbert to move that pick either to make the team better this year or if he does leave for San Antonio to leave the calves high and dry. Would you, would you, if you were Dan, would you trade the Brooklyn pick? I would. Really? I would. And then if LeBron leaves, I would look to sell the team. I think you being nice to him, but by the way, I'm a LeBron fan. I love that. That was fun. I'm a LeBron fan. All right. Let's close out on this. You're Houston Rockets who you've been gassing up all season. A gentleman by the name of Clint Capella, a 23 year old center. I hope I pronounced his name correctly. He's such an unknown entity. Well, for those of us who really watch the NBA and don't just look at the box scores. Clint Capella is having a very nice season. 14 and 10. Only playing 26 minutes a night. His per 36 numbers are off the charts. He's good at running to the rim and dunking and blocking shots. He's got a decent Euro step. He actually had the audacity to say the Rockets are better than Golden State. Kevin Durant fired back. His job is not that hard. When your job is not that hard, you can't just come out here and say bleep like that. Kevin Durant fired back. Chris, I absolutely love what Kevin Durant said. Absolutely. Clint Capella cannot run his mouth when he is winning two regular season games against the worst. Don't run your mouth. This is one of the greatest dynasties in NBA history. And you're going to run your mouth. We're better than them. Hold on. Clint Capella, don't let your mouth write checks that Chris Paul and James Harden got a cash because that's a problem. First of all, I love not what Kevin Durant said, but what Clint Capella said. I want that type of belief. You like delusional. Enough of the rest of these teams that think they can't play with the Warriors. Enough of the rest of these teams who's had their heart taken from Kevin Durant and Steph Curry. I want people that believe. And if we've beaten that team two out of three times, why shouldn't I believe? Regular season. Hey, whatever. That's what the games are about. Why shouldn't I believe? I've got James Harden, who is probably the leading front runner for the NBA. He's up there. He's up there with Kevin Durant and Curry. I've got Chris Paul, who's one of the greatest point guards in NBA history and still playing very well. I've got a host of three-point shooters and role players. I'm doing my thing. Why shouldn't I believe? Should I just kiss the ring? No. But you don't need to say the Rockets are better. Mr. Durant, we can't play with you. We can't beat you. But you don't need to go there. You're saying the Rockets are better than Golden State. No human on planet Earth is saying that, Chris. He did. My Dan Tony is probably in his office just sweating bullets. Why? Now I got to deliver. No pressure now. Chris Paul can't get out of the second round. And you're telling me that the Rockets are better than Golden State. This is stupid. Did he? Dumb. It would have been wrong for him to guarantee victory over the Rockets in the playoffs or over the Warriors. Are the Rockets better than the Warriors? In his mind? Yes. Are they better in your mind than anyone else in America? Tell us in the comments. We'll see in the playoffs. No, I want an answer now. No, we'll see. Right now I think the Warriors are better. But that ain't about me. It ain't about what I think. It's about what Clint Cabello. I want every player in that Rockets locker room thinking like Clint Cabello. You can think like that. You don't have to say it to the media. What's the difference? You like bulletin board material? Let you know. You want to give the Warriors bulletin board material? Because you know what? That's the last thing you need. The Warriors walk in the gymnasiums, buildings, arenas, like they own everything. Like, yeah, y'all know you can't beat us. You know you can't beat us. I like Cabello letting them know, nah, we think we can beat you. All right? You're not getting a psychological mental edge on us. And another thing, Kevin Durand. Oh, no, don't go in on Kevin Durand. No, let me go. Don't go in on my goddamn. I like KD. All right? I was one of the few that didn't bash him when he went to Golden State. I did not bash him. Oh, I love them. But KD does seem to have a problem with roleplayers. Okay. Because his tweet, what was that? Burner? Is that what it's called? Burner account. Burner account where he gave Westbrook love but said I can't, you can't win with those guys. How are you expecting to win with those guys? Who are those guys? The roleplayers. Why can't a roleplayer say something? A roleplayer where, Clint Cabello, okay, he's not as skilled as KD or James Harden or CP3 or whatever. But don't tell me he don't work hard. He's banging with the big boys. Let me ask you this. And he's producing, you said 14 and 10. 14 and 10. His per P.E.R. is second on the team. He's good. He's sixth in the league in P.E.R. They cannot win the championship or even get to the conference finals without Clint Cabello. Let's think fast. He's got a right to speak his mind. Okay, let's think back to Michael Jordan's bulls ascending in like 88-89. This would be the equivalent of Scotty Pippen. Remember migraine Scotty? Yeah. Running his mouth. Oh, Larry Bird. We're better than them. They knew you couldn't get by anybody in the east. That's what this is the equivalent of. A team ascending and close. They're close to maybe getting a game off the Warriors in the playoffs. Running his mouth saying you're better. Close to maybe getting a game. This is something Michael Jordan's head would have exploded and been like, dude, what is your problem? Jordan thought they were better than everybody. It's Michael Jordan. Your Clint Cabello knew your role, son. No. Oh my gosh. I want heart. Clint Cabello showed heart. You can't have heart. You don't even run around. You can go kiss your opponent's ring in fact. Kiss it. Kiss my way. Kiss the ring. Kiss the ring. Let's go to Lynch. Come on. I mean, geez. It's Clint Cabello. The Rockets aren't better than the Warriors, but I want Clint Cabello saying he thinks the Rockets are better than the Warriors. And especially, it's one thing to think it. When you say it, that's when you really believe it. And that's what I like. Thank you. He knew what he was doing. He put it out in the public space. I can't wait for their next meeting. Warriors, what? Do you have a date on that? I can't wait for the playoffs. Oh, there's no more in the playoffs. Yeah. When they meet in the playoffs. I'm thinking Broom. I might bring a sweep to that, to that day we did the shoot. No, I'm going to bring a Broom. Since you are realistic. Sweep the Rockets out of here. Since you admit when you know somebody's gotten the best of you here. Give me a break. Knock down, Jay. Hope you enjoyed it. We want to welcome in Joe Varden. Beat writer for the Cavaliers for Cleveland.com. Does a tremendous job of covering all things Cavaliers and LeBron James. Joe, how you doing? Welcome to end the zone. Oh, well, it's good to be here. I'm cold. You know, it's about 30 degrees and snowy. So, you know, other than that, all good. I know you're used to it. You're from the Akron area. So, so I know you're used to that weather. That's right. But as you know, like when you when you're on the speed and you travel all around, you know, we've been in mostly warm weather. And so my blood has thinned a little. So I got, you know, I got a tough enough over these next couple weeks. I hear you. I hear you. Well, look, man, let's jump right into it. You've covered the Cavs for several years. You've seen this happen every year. If not, you know, twice a year since LeBron's been back. There's been all types of drama, whether it was David Blatt, whether it was LeBron and Kevin Love, LeBron and Kyrie, just the team playing poorly last season toward the end of the year. It's over the second half. Does this year's struggles and do this year's struggles and all this drama going on right now? Is this any different? And if so, how? Yeah, I mean, I think it's different because the actors are different one. And then two, it's not just LeBron sort of causing the waves anymore. I mean, you know, everybody under the sun has discussed this intimate team meeting that they had the other day where everyone kind of went at everyone. And LeBron didn't start it. You know, it was, it was some other guys going at Kevin for having missed most of the game and a practice. It was actually two of the new guys, Isaiah Thomas and Dwayne Wade. And then it mushroomed immediately into like a team-wide thing where kind of everybody was calling out everybody from the general manager, new general manager, Kobe Altman, who was there, you know, to LeBron and on down. So that's one way this is different. And then, you know, the other way is it's just in these games, especially in these games, in these good teams, they're just not, they're not competitive. You know, the Cavs went through two bad months last year, but sort of the losing was interrupted at times by the Cavs playing well against good teams. You know, there were a couple exceptions. You know, the Spurs blew them up pretty bad last year, but, you know, like they'd play Boston and the Cavs beat them by 25 or something like that in the middle of a rough stretch. And now, when they play these good teams, they get blown out. They're 0-6 in their last six national TV games and they've lost by a combined 101 points. So, you know, there's a lot going on, which is, as you mentioned, normal for this team, but some of it does indeed feel different. So you mentioned about the team meeting Kobe Altman being involved as far as going back and forth, where players calling him out. Yeah. It was a raw, oh yeah. It was a raw personal, you know, experience for everybody. You know, and it was just, like, that's probably the biggest, I don't know if Miss Nomer is the right way to say it. The meeting didn't start as a meeting. It began with, you know, a player or two coming at Kevin. And before Kevin could almost even really understand what was going on, like everybody had kind of joined, had kind of come together. And Kevin sort of returned, served, and quickly it evolved into, you know, several players and organization personnel taking shots and giving them. And so, you know, to the point where, like, Kevin, he's not even, he wasn't that upset afterwards because he didn't feel like it was just a case where he was being ganged up on. It was, they ganged up on him to starch and everybody else took brief as well. So it was, you know, it was intense, certainly. And I've been kind of saying the danger with these things, Chris, is you do them and you air your grievances and you get personal. And then it's worse if we find out about it when then you go out and don't do anything differently on the court. They looked as disinterested and lackadaisical and unable to defend as they had before they all yelled at each other. And so that's when these things really start to fester and grow roots. I've heard people say, why go at Kevin Love for missing one game when Derek Rose walked away from the team to contemplate retirement and nobody went at him. Why did they jump on love? That seems a little odd to me just for missing one game. Well, I think there's a couple things to discuss here, you know, because I've heard the Derek Rose point. And I think we can start with Kevin. He is a target. You know, I remember LeBron just scatting him on Twitter with the sit-out sit-in tweet from a couple years ago. And LeBron has called him out over the years for not demanding the ball, for being upset with his role and any number of things. And sometimes it was wanted and sometimes it wasn't. And so Kevin on the one hand just occasionally is a target. The Derek Rose thing is interesting. Publicly players said the right thing. If you really think about it, publicly they've only said like no one has killed Kevin publicly either over this. And even Isaiah and Dwayne just thought was hilarious. Both graduated him on Twitter for making the all-star game. We all don't know what was really going on. You know, probably the players were certainly put off by Derek and are, you know, surprised at some level that he has been able to return and have a place in the rotation when he walked away. So yes, Kevin can draw that parallel and Kevin can say you know, Kevin can be upset about that part of it but you know, don't the players also noticed when Derek left and they have also noticed that he's back playing now with virtually no repercussion. So that was not lost on them either. I was stunned when the report came out that Isaiah Thomas was the one that kind of led to charge against Kevin Love just because he's so new and has only played with eight or nine games, eight games, I think. How is he fitting in to the locker room as far as you know, he's made some comments. I mean, after his first or second game he said the way they're playing is unacceptable. He's talked about they don't practice enough again, calling out love like how is he fitting in in the locker room seems like he has a he's like a bull in a china shop. Well, I'm glad you brought that up, especially the practice thing, which again rub some guys the long way because here's Isaiah and he won't let this practice thing go. We don't practice. We don't practice and the irony to some of the guys in the locker room was well, wait a minute, you're talking about how we don't practice the day after games. But you, Isaiah are not allowed to play on back to back it. So what how does this work like what were you supposed to do on these days that we're not practicing if you're not allowed to do the back to back. Isaiah was a great fit here after the trade. He he's more social than Kyrie. I think he's easier to get along with in general. You know, he was kind of hanging out off the court with LeBron a little and Dwayne and just kind of seen and really liked it here. And you know, a source suggests to me that he still does but he really did like it here. He liked everything. And now he is rubbing guys the wrong way and he has and there's a couple things to it. I mean, he's trying to play his way back to where he used to be and we don't know if that's going to happen or not. But in the meantime, he's really frustrated because it's not happening or it hasn't been happening. And the Cavs are playing him as though he's a two-time All-Star who scores 30 a game. So he gets all these looks in the offense and he's not making the shots and then as a result, because they're so poor defensively that just leads to these all these issues and Isaiah is kind of looking for avenues to vent. So practice is a problem. Team defense is a problem. We cared about it much more in Boston those kinds of things. And so the comments cause issues, he's frustrated and at the same time, the players understand, his teammates understand who he is and what he's there for. So on the one hand they're okay with him getting these shots and they understand that right now they're not falling. But then they're also frustrated because they know that playing this way is what has disrupted a lot of the rhythm. LeBron's having a terrible month. Kevin's having a bad month. His shots are way down. The bench isn't what it used to be. Just a lot of pieces moving in and out. Corbers not the same and like that's not all just Isaiah's fault it isn't. But trying to read to integrate him into the flow of things has caused a major disruption in a number of ways and I think that has a lot to do with the frustration. And you've seen of course the reports I know you're on top of it of them potentially trading for George Hill. If they get this deal done. So what would his role be starting at the two next to Isaiah coming off the bench starting at the point like what do you see how do you see him fitting in? Well there's a couple of things to that. He can be a combo guard sources think he can play alongside Isaiah which would mean JR Smith goes to the bench he's had a bad year and so maybe that works out. You could but this I mean this takes some guts that so far this organization hasn't been willing to to show you could start him and bring Isaiah off the bench. That would cause a I don't think that's a bad basketball idea but man can you imagine how you think Isaiah I mean it's a contract here all that. Yeah it doesn't seem like that's what they want to do. But even with George Chris I mean 31 yes he's averaging 10 points and he's shooting nearly 45% from 3 so you know that's good but he plays for a bad team so somebody has to score and they don't do a lot of scoring as it is and his defensive rating he I look this up he is the ninth worst defender in the NBA this year among players who've played at least 20 games. He had a toe injury last year that forced him out of the final three games of the conference semi-finals and sources are wondering how if that ever completely healed and here's the Cavs who are just ridiculously bad on defense and they're going to the one team who's worse defensively to fix it and the only the Cavs only have one player who's rated worse defensively than George Hill and that's that's Isaiah. So it's interesting but they think that you know they're kind of hoping that that he'll bad defense as a product of his team and that he would fit in better here. So what other do you see any other moves on the horizon or potential moves that they could make before the trade deadline? Well I mean I think there's a difference between could make and will make that they are pursuing DeAndre Jordan there's no question about that and they would still have the resources to get him after this George Hill trade if they wanted. You know again I mean you said it already just about sort of the politics involved with what they do with Isaiah. You know Kimball Walker is available you know Michael Jordan kind of threw a little bit of water on that but I think he still could be had you know frankly with what else the Cavs have Kimball would probably be a better fit here you know I don't know that like ownership wants to move off of Isaiah and you know they may want to keep him here long term and you know to be fair to him he has only had a game and he is scoring the ball better he just you know he needs more time so maybe he rounds into form but Kimball's out there if they get George Hill I don't know that they also look at another wing like a base moor somebody like that but then you have to look at someone to help defensively underneath and that would be DeAndre if they could but I mean the Clippers know they lost to the Celtics on Wednesday the game under 500 trying to figure out if they want to move these guys or not so that you know that's the one of the ones to keep your eye on there. There's really no way they're giving up that number one pick or that I'm sorry that Brooklyn pick is that pretty much correct? Well I wouldn't say no way but kind of the way it's always been is that pick is available for premium and if you think about the premium players well their teams have all gotten together you know the thunder great now you know so there's no way Paul George is available the pelicans are rolling so it certainly doesn't appear that DeMarcus is going to be available and Anthony Davis is out of the question so you know I don't know that that Marquis like player is out there and then it's almost a catch 22 because if the calves are so bad that they are not I mean this sounds silly in a way because you'll understand but if they're so bad that they can't make the finals or they can't get to the eastern conference finals then you should hold on to that pick anyway because you're going to need to rebuild or replenish and then otherwise you would hold on to it unless there's an impact player that gives you a chance against the Warriors and I don't know that that player is available via trade so you look at your other first round pick you know you try to weigh some of the other assets you have you look at moving J Crowder that can maybe net you something better in return and you you try to improve the team that way so bottom line do you I mean a lot of people just are banking on LeBron being able to get them out of the east do you see these issues and these struggles that they're having as something that they'll overcome just like they have the past three years and as far as getting to the finals well Chris there's we learned last year that we really we should stop reacting too strongly when they go through these things because they're so bad and then they got to the playoffs and LeBron just carried on and everybody was great and they won their first ten and they got back to the finals and it was fine the difference now is when you watch this team is currently constructed with the starting lineup is currently constructed they are incapable of defending they cannot get it they cannot get enough stops to win these games and unless Isaiah becomes the player that he was and they can be efficient enough offensively to out score most of these teams it is hard again it's currently constructed to see them to see the same kind of turnaround because they're just at such a disadvantage on defense but there's so many that there are enough little things that they can change that to get this right and get the best player in the world in position to push this team into the conference finals and back into the finals so you don't wave the light flag you don't write this team off but it is harder to see this right now without some kind of change where is LeBron at mentally right now like you said he hasn't had a good month there are some people that think he's kind of sulking sending a message hey get us some help at the trade deadline that's why he's not playing well what do you think is going on with LeBron he's kind of bewildered because I mean there aren't a lot of answers we're at the moment he's never certainly since at least since his rookie year his teams have never been beaten like this consistently in any stretch of time where you know it's a night in night out over two or three week stretch where they just get their heads hand to him and he doesn't really know what he can do to fix it he knows his numbers are down and he's just he's not been a factor in fourth quarters and he's just I don't believe he's quit I don't believe that he's given up necessarily but he bewilderment and this would be the worst thing but it's true some level of resignation that this is going to be there are some challenges that maybe they can't overcome and so that's what you want to watch watch for is does that really creep into him and drag him down for the rest of the year that's where I wonder if because I mean when we talk about the Cavs on a national level and people talk about you know what can they do to fix themselves they'll be okay is it panic time whatever I feel like people including myself we're referring to just getting out of the east and we're not even I don't think anybody thinks they're going to beat the Warriors it's almost like just winning the east would be success team but I'm starting to wonder if they believe they can't beat the Warriors if they are really unmotivated to get back to the finals and get swept or beaten five or whatever it might be and that could affect them as far as getting out of the east do you think there's anything there as far as you know that could be the case with this team that they're just not that they don't want to get to the finals but subconsciously believing they really don't have a shot against Golden State they may just not be able to get themselves up enough to even come out of this rut and even get to the finals that is a great point a very precious observation and it's correct it is correct I think if I walked in there today at practice and I did do you do you really think do you think you can beat the Warriors and if you don't is that is that depressing you for how you're approaching the rest of the season but Bron or the rest of the players would say we can't be thinking about Golden State right now we got to fix ourselves but the truth is those two Golden State games the scores were close and yet after the second one when I my two colleagues on the beat when we wrote that players were really bummed out and not sure that this could be fixed and that Chris would be the actual root of it that it's like we're not good enough to beat the Warriors and so what's the point that was a predominant thing there feeling in those conversations and I do think that's weighing on to a degree so my thing I've said on the nationally I get that but I don't think anybody's going to kill them for losing to the Warriors but they will particularly LeBron they will get killed if they lose to Kyrie I'm like that's worse than losing to the Warriors at least get motivated to beat Boston and win the East oh yes that's right do they feel that? are they conscious that look we cannot let Kyrie beat us and win the East I think so I do think so I think LeBron is upset very much so that they traded Kyrie to Boston specifically and that this has worked out so well for the Celtics but he also knows that Kyrie wanted out because of him and so whatever LeBron tries to do to distance himself from the front office the fact remains it's on him to make sure Kyrie doesn't beat him and you can see that on opening night the last time the two teams played the Cavs run the second night of it back to back they were starting a long road trip they just come off a long road trip so you can see that that one wasn't going to be the night the two teams play again on February 10th or 11th I think 11th on a Sunday and that is the one that you really if the Cavs can figure out any of these other issues that you really want to see what they have because you know it'll be the last time they play each other I think and you know LeBron will want to get into that mode where he makes clear that he's not ready to give up the you know because his run in the east I mean he's been to seven straight finals you know I think the Russell's record was 10 something like that like that's not like he could reach that you know it's it's in within reach and you know I'm sure LeBron doesn't want that to just go by the wayside either there is this perception as you know that LeBron is the coach the GM everything but the owner of the team how you know what is really the state of LeBron and the Cavs I mean can Tyloo really coach the team or is LeBron kind of pulling the strings in the front office as well like what's the real situation there yeah I mean first of all LeBron has less communication with the top of the front office as in like you know general the general manager spot than he has in a while I think at some level the perception that LeBron was the GM was unfair to him and to David Griffin there are lots of things that David did you know that were his ideas certainly and then he would keep LeBron in the loop and and ask for his opinion but it was Griffin driven now LeBron you know contends that he doesn't have the same interaction I don't know if that has changed over the last couple of days now that Kobe is getting active chasing some of these guys but certainly that dynamic has changed and like for instance when they traded Kyrie to Boston they didn't talk to LeBron about you know is this a good idea there was a discussion about should we trade Kyrie at all but not about the Boston and then you know as far as the coaching thing goes it's not just because of LeBron it is because of LeBron but not just because of him this is the oldest team in the league you got Kevin Love you got Blaine Wade Kyle Korber you know Ida is here now I mean these are players who are extremely established who have been doing things a certain way their entire careers and so now you come here and it's hard to just say okay this is the way it's going to be like Ty has to be much more of a manager of the personalities on his team he's got on his team and try to hit it into what he wants to do instead of saying this is what I want to do and you guys have to stick yourselves into it so yeah it is hard in Ty's case but it's not just because of LeBron you know there's been speculation about his job security how is his job security right now with the cast so the thing about Ty is he's not just their coach he is their front office figure who has by far the most respect and most cachet in the league he's their closer on the three agents in some in many ways he's their recruiter you know when you look at the guys at the guys in the front office I don't believe any of them is as old as Ty I don't think and certainly none of them have the overall NBA experience that Ty does so there's just there would be there's already a void there would be an incredible void if they were to move on from him but as you and I know Dan Dan can be a reactionary owner at times and he also values defense there's been a lot to react to lately and they don't defend so it's fair to say what's going on with him but I don't I just don't I don't get the sense that that's where things are headed on that stuff right now so what's your field it's obviously the elephant in the room what's your feeling on what LeBron does this summer do you think he's a Cavalier next year or you think he's elsewhere the answer always was that it was more likely than not that he stays and now I guess because things have been so ugly for so many weeks I would say maybe it's more likely than it is that it doesn't come back but it's not that is a product of where things are right now I was talking to somebody close to him the other day it was well I mean where's he gonna go and this is someone close to LeBron so it's still it's not cut and dry it's not as easy as always going to LA or oh he's staying there are many factors I would suggest that the Cavs do something to turn this around make some moves show him that they are still capable of feeling a team as he wants him to be and then it makes it easier for him to do all the things that would be easy for his legacy and easy for his family and that's probably the same Cleveland it's gone ever since ever since he said in September that I still intend to retire as a Cavalier and do more things than not have gone against that so it's fair to question well Joe man excellent information man great job and I know you got to head out to the Cavs practice today for probably more drama I guess right never stops well thanks a lot man for joining in the zone I appreciate it and I'll see you soon down the line look forward to it Chris thanks yep bye