 What was your favorite food over there Chris where we're like China Hong Kong or China? Well, I either I've been in both Let me guess is it gonna be related to smelly fish well I had a lot of dick a lot of dick How are you sir? Hello mate very well. Thank you for having me on the podcast. I'm a big fan Chris big fan of your show Oh, well, it's that's um, that's just an absolute honor to hear. I'm I'm always I'm not really good at taking compliments because You know, I just I just do stuff and that's But yeah, it's funny. It's a lot of high achievers of the same can't take a compliment. Yeah, but but what I do know though is I love Respect, so thank you for saying that And and also let's be honest if I'm trying to You know this podcast I think any content provider will tell you and I You've been you are one yourself and you've certainly been in the media a lot in your history Chris But any anyone will tell you know, it all starts with a first move an idea a dream Put it into action, you know, I didn't have to start talking into that web In fact, it wasn't even that webcam. That's an expensive one. The one I had before was this You know cheap one that they give you when you get your PC or whatever Yes, it all starts with an idea. You start talking into that web camera when it's not breaking down like it just did and And when people start to respond and say Chris, I really like that video It's it I guess that's a bit of a wow moment, isn't it? And then when you've got 50,000 people who clearly like videos then then you think That's 10 times bigger than our football stadium. That's that's 10 times more capacity than plume of our goal And yeah, and it's just nice. It's nice to It's nice to do stuff that people appreciate and of course With what you've done in the martial arts, you I mean you must have experienced this very thing I suppose I suppose you're right, mate. Yeah, it's it's all I know you I think you just hit like 50,000 Don't you which is massive for a podcast Is that right Chris? Yeah 50,000 what what is a bit more kind of spectacular or to my mind? I mean Chris is It's it's like when you're getting a million views a month Including all the downloads on the other plan, you know All right, that's that's a lot of people, isn't it? Yes, mate. It's it's a lot of people. I mean I I've watched your podcast. I like it. I think it's great. I think it's a real brand It's it's very clear and definite about what it is Chris and you're very clear about your message You know get out there adventure like life's work living and I love that message that you put out You were saying about There's no such thing as a bad experience I think that's really empowering like to be honest and I think that's really really important for for not just young men to hear but All men really and women of course, but I'm just talking from my own perspective People look it out there Yeah, it's funny Chris. My surname means slave, right? So the thrills We were actually vikings. We were the lower cast of vikes or viking had a cast system The lowest cast was called the thrills, right? So Yeah I put that in there so I can Keep my warrior claim to fame, right? We we were vikings, but we were slaves as well. But anyway I don't know if it's anything to do with that. I doubt it but You know, I I think we are all Enslaved as we sit here now There are people trying to enslave us and I think they've done it my whole life, right? I think they're Yeah, I referred to them as sociopaths and I think ever since they worked out they could rig the the the system of exchange. So the money system Um, they worked out how they can control people and without Going down that road because it's like it's not complicated, but it takes a bit of explaining They know how to control people's left brain and keep them in the dark and so If we've been slaves all our lives We need to Reject that system that system of thinking because that system of thinking has been put on us by people that don't care about us They only care about themselves. They don't have a love of humanity that generally speaking human beings are kind of born with I think, you know why we complete strangers can have a wonderful Chat now. I don't want to bloody kill you or or rob you chris. I'm just not You know, I might not that way. I might steal that skeleton, but it's pretty good though You can just see the lower half. Can't you in the frame? Look, I'll show you I call him bob Bob hope he's got no hope of coming back alive again So so yeah, so it's very kind you say but all all I do Is I challenge everything that we've been taught because it doesn't work All it does is make you miserable. It gives you a false understanding of what the beauty of this life actually is And we did a live chat. We did we in our um, patreon live free live coaching that I do once a month We had a zoom chat the other night and we we um we were just Challenging these kind of things we were looking at the death and bereavement And how we're only taught one single narrative and that is if someone dies You've got to cry your eyes out and then just keep crying the rest of your life and you know You'll never get over it. But in 20 years you might feel a bit better But that's not a good deal. Is it, you know, because we're all we're all going to lose people that we love You need a better way of dealing with it than being depressed for 20 years. You just need a better way And very often I think this depressed this depressive kind of structure we frame death with comes from a fact that It's this system of control. We've been subjected to that doesn't care about us And and and it it it just adds to the fear that oh my god I don't want someone to die because I can't you know, I and it's just it's a fear-based society that we live in and Gone on a little bit long-winded considering this is your podcast chris, but it's It's a valid, you know, I think it's a valid subject for all of us We need to ditch the old rules. They don't work. We need to start You know moving into the light so to speak So, but I mean you're You're here crediting me. I've just been listening to your work on buddhism What is it the buddha said he said, you know You fight anger with Happiness You fight. Yeah You fight. It's all about transmuting isn't it? It's like about transmuting emotions chris, you know And that's what attracted me to it very much I think I think essentially Buddhism and the study of it is about It's about Helping people find their place in the world. I don't think it's about telling people what to do or what to believe in fact My Buddhist teacher first thing he said to me. He doesn't believe a word. I say He says run it through your own common sense first If it makes sense to you then investigate it, but don't just believe it because I'm saying it And I thought that was like really profound, you know, he said get it off the paper go and live it go and experience it and So it's certainly been a source of comfort and help through for me through my life And it's definitely changed the way I do things look at things and act and react and then It kind of matures over the years and I'm not trying to say I'm anything special But it you know, the more you study and the more you practice it and think about it um, it does kind of start to become What I thought was a better framework for living your life you know, yes so There'll be many people listening probably don't really know what Buddhism is. I mean I I only know Because I've spent time in the Far East Um, I'm not saying you have to spend time in the Far East to understand what Buddhism is But for me I I had to and it was very simple things like my um My sister-in-law was Thai Yeah, I mean or is Thai I should say and um To see her attitude towards things which is completely different from from our so for example acceptance You know just accepting all all All people and all difference that That was a sort of eye opener um I was wandering through Singapore one day chris and we we got to a Buddhist temple I've actually funny enough. I put the photo of it on my instagram today if anyone's listening it's it's this um I don't even know if it's a Buddhist statue might even be be be be hit be Hit Hindi it's like this cat looking per I Can't even remember to be honest, but anyway, so I'm walking past this temple with a local Singaporean And he started to you know do some sort of like prayer ritual out of respect and and he turned to me said Ah chris what religion And I said I don't have one he went Free thinker right and And I thought you know what you just hit the net that is exactly what I I Don't want to be slept. Oh my family we came out. We fought our way out of slavery. The thralls did right? I don't want to go back there so But but again this very accepting, you know, there's him He's doing his you know But when I said no, I don't do any of that. He's like oh wow He just had great respect for me and yeah And yeah, I think in that sense chris. It's more like a philosophy than a religion I think it should be I think it really is actually a philosophy rather than a religion. So it's like take, you know You don't have to like worship and in fact in zen there's a saying which is it like a it's actually a chinese That eventually became japanese version of buddhism But there's a saying that says something like this chris. There's 10 000 statues of the buddha in the world Each single one will be an influence to you understanding what buddhism is about So it's saying don't don't worship effigies, you know, don't worship things Don't do that. Just think you know, just think calm yourself down meditate understand your own mind a little bit better Um, and that you know, and there's a bit of direction and guidance. There's no, you know There's no commandments if you like there's no you must do this you mustn't do that There's there's like they say there's ways to live your life better That are better for you that create a better life for you And certainly it created a better life for me But there's no sort of you know, it's not hard and fast I don't sure we're down your throat and there's you know, I think it's quite peaceful tolerant Philosophy really actually yeah It's interesting chris, isn't it because I think anybody that's the gone down the path to enlightenment Has followed the buddha's story and we'll I'll let you explain to people what what what he was a prince, wasn't he and he and yeah, but when I look at my life in fact Can you tell us about was it prince siddhartha? Was that his name siddhartha? Yeah, so basically sort of to just sort of paraphrase roughly the story is that um, he was a prince and um his father wanted him to become a king um, and He left the palace. I forget what age it was maybe 25 or something like that He left out the palace and prior to him going outside of the palace. He'd never seen death or old age As the story goes he'd just been completely showered with Like every luxury you can imagine and then he came out and he saw in the streets Old people like dying sick and poor And he was like, oh, what's this? You know you imagine you imagine the privilege, you know having never seen anybody old or poor um and he was shocked by it and then he he Um, he wanted to try and understand it So he went he went and studied in the forest and studied with like wise men and you know starved himself and meditated for extended periods of time until he Came up with a formula of understanding about the cycle of life and death basically and Again to cut a long story short because you could talk about this for for years really, but he he said right, um life Contains lots of suffering that we don't understand So there's the suffering of age that suffering there's a suffering of being born In fact, there's a lot of suffering when someone gives birth and when you're born The suffering of age in the suffering of like actually acquiring material goods and being separated from them So you acquire things you get attached to them like my master said to me. Well, imagine you buy A yacht, is that a good thing? I was like, wow a yacht. Wow, that's an amazing thing And he said but what about when you're not with it? Are you worried that someone might steal it or might rot or get damaged? Well, yeah, yeah, of course. Well, that's the kind of suffering So he talks about like he talks about the the subtle sufferings in the things that we think are um, not suffering right Um, and then and then he talks as well about Understanding that as a way to set you free and when you understand you're suffering um The sort of little bits that you're denying your mind You you you change the way that you act and then you change the way just naturally You'd have to force it you then change the way you act towards other people because like in your life, christ You've had a lot of suffering You've had a lot of hard times and i'm sure that built a lot of empathy In you to understand other people's difficult times And so I think I'm not I mean, I I didn't actually know we were going to talk about Buddhism on the other side I'd have read read a few more books and like come up with some clever words to try and impress you But I think essentially it's it's talking about Just understanding being empathetic and kind but not from a place of where you have to be Coming from a place of like just understanding Yourself and then try to understand other people. So that's I think essentially what it what it is now, you know, well Perhaps for our friends at home chris I'll I'll relate it to my story and this is this is a fascinating Philosophical question that we were discussing again the other night in our live coaching is Because we talk when we're live coaching we we talk in terms of the people that live in the matrix and though Those of us that don't sorry if people find that rude. It's just you know We're in challenging times and I just believe in speaking straight and and I used to live in the matrix, you know, I but But the question we posed is in order to step out of the matrix which which I refer to as Set in foot down the path of enlightenment or even indeed being enlightened Does it require A traumatic Experience maybe even a traumatic Childhood experience is the requisite, you know, not to say you can't become understanding or some people aren't just genuine nice nice people but to actually see the truth in life which Many people find really hard. I know people they're not in the map that they've got Like they stepped out the matrix with one foot They're in this brave new world. No no pun intended Or no reference intended They realize and ah that old world Yeah, it's not it that shit doesn't work, right? Yeah, but in order to try to make sense of this new world Aka enlightenment, they're using the old school rules, right? So They'll say, you know, we've got to fix the planet. We've got to fix it. We need to vote in this guy and it's like no No You can't fix the corrupt system using the same corrupt system. It's not really sense, you know Yeah It's a big It's so hard though, isn't it because the system's so all-encompassing and it's so big And it supports everything that you've been told from year dot I mean, it's a bit like a kid realizing that father christmas doesn't exist. Isn't it? Yes, like when it wait father christmas doesn't exist. I've been lied to what? But then you still carry on Giving presents and you still perpetuate the same You know, I would say lie. It's a harsh word for you for your own kids You know to keep them in the system. Can you imagine like Um, you got kids. I've got kids Can you imagine your kid when they're five year old you're gonna there's no father christmas And I want you to go tell your mates. It's all a big lie And I'm not buying you anything for christmas. They go to school They tell their mates that and they're like what the hell everyone's Everyone's like you almost do it just to keep fitting in with everybody else You know, you have to the system is designed so that um You know It keeps you in it keeps you in yeah, and you have to have some degree of You have to have some degree of like You have to have you have to kind of have one foot in it to survive You know to to pay the electric bills or whatever I'm on the same page as you may I I like I've I've long thought that we are you know We're like slaves building pyramids really You know the big banking system and everything it's like you don't own your house mate you what you do is You go out and you slave for somebody else so that you can Pay the slave master so you can rent that thing that in 25 years you say is yours And and then won't retire anyone who drops out of that system Even when it's yours when you die Then your kids or whoever you leave your property then have to pay a third of it to the sociopaths, you know It is funny though, it's the perfect system in it chris if you're in charge You know, yeah, you know I said I sat down with my girlfriend last night chris and I just said You know, I know people that talk the talk they say all the right stuff all the kind of enlightenment, right But chris I know they still live in the matrix, right? I know that in their heart hearts they they Still cling to the notion that three guys got in a tin can Chuck some fossil fuel in the bottom of it and went went to another planet that that And this isn't about whether they did or not This is about like Having the ability to rationalize and and actually apply logic to a scenario and go. Do you know what I'm I can actually question this I could pull some holes in this, you know I'm never going to know the answer perhaps, but I can you know That's what I I kind of feel is enlightenment is is knowing that there's never like an absolute truth Um Or maybe there are there's some maybe there are some absolute truth. Sorry a bit contradictory, but That's all right But what do you think about ilan musk's like going to mars then chris is that What's that all about? This is where it gets confusing, right? Because just when I would have said Oh, he's one of the you know He's a puppet for the sociopaths, right and I'll explain I'll I'll explain why He then comes out and starts attacking bill gates over let's not say the the buzzwords chris because we'll get deplatformed but You know what I mean is it's just a difficult area to go in but You know what what bill gates plans for the world are Ilan musk has come out and gone the guys are knob. I ain't doing that to me or my family, right? So just when you think all these silicon valley Muppet puppet autocratic technocratic corporate Um Mentalists are all in the same boat with their secret bilderberg meetings Then you see two of them come out and public and argue, but You could say there. Yeah, that's the whole idea chris. You're two big names arguing Takes the the you know that takes you away from the real truth in life from or discovering the real truth arguing So to go back to your question Um When anyone discusses go into another planet as if like we've already done that that their credibility to me just Like either they know they're lying and they you know, they which is the case with all these spacex stuff Yeah, they're not stupid. They they they know we haven't been to the moon, right? It's a physical it's We don't even really understand that the vastness of space or or the effect that it has on us as You know as there's a human being, right? So so in all honesty, like if you had to bet your life on it, right My bet would be we hadn't right, right? Okay that and just Yeah Sorry, it's a funny It's a funny topic, but Here's the thing, right Elon Musk sent his to um He sent his rocket into space right his spacex one and the famous thing about it or his novel thing is that the The burners the boosters the rockets Come back down to earth. So they deliver their payload Up in the sky, which will be you know a satellite and yes, I I I believe there are satellites because you sit on a beach in Africa With no light pollution you see them going over, right? So I don't I I think they're satellites I think that obviously to get the satellite up there. They've probably been put up there with a with a rocket and Yeah, unless I'm a bit deluded. Maybe you can put a hot a balloon on them or something You know, but I think when you know that when you get the trajectory, right and you're at that balance that cusp of You know depending where you are in the atmosphere Will dictate how much gravitational pull Is affected on that object towards the center of the earth, right? So The lower you are in that atmosphere the more thrust the more you have to chuck that satellite out to keep it then Orbiting right literally it's like that, isn't it? It's like a it's almost like a like a A double boomerang effect, right? The higher is less gravitational pull because as we know there's less gravity as you go up into space and you just got to Tap that satellite gently and it's just trajectory It's going to go into Orbit, you know begin orbit in the earth because it's basically trying to fall but as it falls The combination of gravity versus thrust Or movement keeps it in in in this orbit, right? So Like I get that What I don't get Is that when these two rocket boosters were coming back down to earth and they're going to land on these two ships out in the ocean Which you know, let's be honest. There's pretty much an amazing feat of technology that that one minute they're in outer space or We know it's not Yeah Yeah, well, this is the thing right but waves and the sea and this this is how This is where it becomes interesting. So he's got the cameras on each rocket booster, right? Right, and as they're coming down to their their docks their landing pads Which are on these rafts out at sea or these ships, whatever they are, right? What he hasn't realized or what SpaceX haven't realized is the camera on this booster He's putting out the exact same TV image as the one on this one. It's just it's like For arguments sake three seconds behind So on this one, you see it traveling towards the ship and maybe there's a judder On this one it's traveling towards the ship one two three and then there's there's the judder. It's the same camera, right? now that isn't the The the smoking gun in itself the smoking gun is that When this was pointed out on youtube That dude, it's like you've got the same camera on separate rockets. It's you know, what are you? What are you trying to pull here, right? What happened is the next day it changed And the video changed so the camera on this booster Was genuinely a different place and location To the one on this right coming down on separate you couldn't you know, you couldn't You couldn't argue the picture and you could argue you could argue if it's all CGI or something, right? But Well, as you know Chris as a content creator on youtube as I am You can go into a video on youtube and edit a bit out So if I say the f word now i'll go oh, do you know what chris? I'm going to edit that out Once this is uploaded to youtube or You know if I if I upload this video to youtube and then I remember oh my god, I swore I want to take that out right not not that I work because I swear a lot I can Yeah, I I can snip that out can't I right it's called the youtube creator studio But what I cannot do chris is re upload a new video And keep the same the keep the same views the likes the comments and all of that Can't do that. You cannot upload a new if you upload a new video. It's got to be completely fresh again. Yeah, right So my question is if you ask me what do I think of SpaceX? How did they How why did youtube allow them to re upload this video when you and I couldn't do it, right? Okay, we're not corporate sociopaths, but yeah, they're all mates So that's that all this nonsense about going to mars It's just to get if you ask me. I think it's just to get funding It's just to keep getting it's an excuse for corporate billionaires to off Offshoot some of their tax losses by giving it to SpaceX or whatever There's another company. I'm not going to say the name, but let's be honest. They've been getting billions every year from the the great us public to put on this Show, you know Maybe it got to the point where they needed to kind of disseminate that focus on on a on a one single company Because the the the fraud is so huge, right? So they kind of privatized it now. So they've you've got all these companies coming up with Professing to put rockets on Mars not not just the one like the old days And and and it's it's easier to perpetuate you know that To perpetuate the myth that like it's possible to go to Mars in the next like 20 years it's Um Gosh, we've really gone off topic, haven't we? Not not not that there's not that there's a topic and that's what I love about podcasting, but I am uh, I am conscious. You're you're you're my guest. So So You said it was like a chat in a pub your message me. He's just uh, Chris. It's like a chat in a pub two blocks. There you go Yeah, yeah It's just the problem is chris a lot of people haven't caught up with podcasts and they're still very old school and You know, they're right. They're they're right to me go chris you you like Kept talking It's like, yeah, that's like what I would do with my mate in the pub. We like he says a bit I say a bit. Yeah, it's a conversation So going back to the buddhist story like it it It it's a very traditional story. You could almost liken it to the hero story So you know your prince charming story that's used in pretty much like every kind of hollywood film, isn't it because You take my situation again, I'll just use myself as example He this young prince looked out the palace for the first time he saw dead bodies aging people disabled people and extreme poverty And nastiness the likes of which he'd never experienced A traumatic moment for him, right? Yeah as a child traumatic moment, right my life Lots of barely traumatic moments if I was honest stuff that a child shouldn't really I'd say in an ideal scenario shouldn't really be trying to make sense of at that age, right? As such as I grew up something in your head is Ill at ease You know, you don't have this calmness in yourself that possibly other people that haven't been through trauma do As such You need answers because you want to know why do I Feel different. Why do I seem to struggle with life or or you know Why is it like all the kids at school pass their exams first time or it seemed that way and I like failed everything You know what what why why? And in an effort to answer that question you experiment So for me my first big experiment Was going in the military, you know, this was the thing that was going to make me Because when I get that 250 quid a week, you know left brain thinking here Uh, I I'll be happy. In fact, it wasn't even it was like 120 quid from first Month sat at first week salary. I think in the Marines But you know when I get that when I get a green berry on my head I will be someone right and you get there and then you realize No, I'm like actually just exactly the same, you know, I'm Obsessively do it. So then I obsessively started bodybuilding, right? That's gonna what you know, and I got the big muscles that girls will want to kiss me and that yeah I'll be there, you know then Step one step down a road become the substance use, you know, right? Oh, this thing makes me feel great. Oh, there's my answer. Right. I'll follow this I'll jump on this donkey for a while. You know, this is gonna Sort me out, right? I mean, you know and So, oh and then it is business, wasn't it? You know Big business. I went to Hong Kong. We're gonna chat about that. I've got this You know the the cliche million-dollar business I've created, right? Or the projected forecast I should say and That's gonna make me happy because when I've got my Porsche 911 You know, and I clean it on a Sunday morning outside the front of my house, which has got swimming pool Then I'm gonna I'm gonna be this this fucking happy guy, right, right? That's it, right? So I'm gonna make it in business, you know, and then And then I'm just gonna bomb us to a million different things Experimenting with diet finding Out about your body's alkalinity the most single important thing anybody can do your pH balance Doing like reading martial arts books, right doing, you know, a little bit learning a bit there Working for a criminal gang aka the 14k the honk the Hong Kong tribe seeing that side of life Getting so in on drugs that I'm mentally unwell So I'm seeing that side of life that nobody sees right coming back living in abject or At least well abject poverty for for 18 months chronically depressed, you know Living in squalor literally starving most of the time, you know So much so when I got food, I would eat it like a dog like I couldn't get it into my body fast enough, right? I still do that Chris Off the back of that right Off the back that criminality. I've been involved in crime thinking well if I can steal this amount of money, then I'll I'll be happy, you know, maybe I could steal that Get a house or something right And criminality then it was Higher travel, right if I travel the way you seven 87 countries on all seven continents and I become a pilot skydiver Antarctic explorer author Da-da-da-da-da on the way Then I'll be happy won't I that that that right? Then it's like, uh, oh no go got if I work with street children in Mozambique And then I drive a bus to india and back when we write about articles in poverty then, you know So what am I getting to oh then higher education, right? So getting a degree in the social sciences So I I I studied youth work and then social works. I learned the biology the psychology the sociology um, and you know the theoretical Theoretical case and the philosophical arguments, right and then that and then of course i'm reading all my life I'm reading reading reading river I'm getting to the point that Was I not just doing exactly what that prince Siddhartha did I'd realized from a young age life ain't right, you know I'm I'm going through stuff that I shouldn't really I'm then grown up wanting to answer that question why And I put my fingers and my toes in every single pie that I ever could in the quest for that answer and finally I arrived back at the same place aka chris thrall Then I realized It's actually not a place It's part of something called the universe And i'm actually insignificant and i'm completely unimportant And the only importance I could possibly attach myself is that which I socially can Struct in my head, you know without which I psychologically construct in my head Um, I'm literally the ashes to ashes dust that does nothing more But what I am is I'm the universe Primarily I'm a part of the universe in the same way seaweed is part of the seabed, you know It it or it's probably a bad analogy the same way that rock Is part of the plant, you know magma rock It's just a part of the planet. It's not a really don't go. Hey that rock's called Dave, right Dave How's the portion I know you haven't got a portion 11 yet Dave? All right, okay Hong Kong right. Oh, you want to do that? You want to learn you know, it this this is kind of ludicrous as it gets so there's a there's a saying in Taoism An analogy that springs to mind it's like uh a drop like you think of a wave on the sea as the waves going forward and you know, you guess Guess the the top bit the white bit the crest of the wave And then on the crest of the wave there's little drops of water that come off the off the wave And they come off the wave for a little while and while they're separate from the wave They say hey, I'm separate from the wave. I am a drop of water I am all alone But then give it a few seconds and they join back with the ocean and they become part of that wave again So that reminds me of that Chris for a brief moment We think that we're separate from the universe and then we while we're separate we think well I'll do this. I'll do that. I've got to do that. I've got to find out who I am all the time not knowing that they're actually part of the wave And not knowing that there isn't anything to It's crazy you have I've had to travel the planet and do every single mental stuff that I possibly can to realize That I actually didn't need to do any of that and the pieces in my head And that I am Like I say, I mean insignificant and I mean that in a good way You know, I don't have to attach any bloody importance to myself. You know, I don't have to achieve any all I've got to do It's just maintain Some kind of equilibrium in my life and and open my eyes and appreciate it and do a few crazy stuff because After all we're life experiencing itself. So why not throw yourself out of aeroplanes if if that floats your boat that um Yes, so there we have it folks. That was a clip that I wanted to put out about Buddhism I'm just going to write that down and I I think we did very well. Let let's go back to your history chris Where did hong kong come into it? um, I guess I was about 17 Uh years old 17 18 when I went out there I think they're much lots of time. Yeah, go on. Yeah, I I I thought for some reason you've grown up a lot younger Can you tell us where your surname comes from? Yeah, so I'm I'm I'm half Irish half Italian. So my father's Italian Mother's Irish. So that's my my background. I didn't grow up with my father grew up with my mother and life wasn't easy as a kid As a teenager we had a Well, no, I wasn't a teenager. I don't know. I was maybe 11 or 12 or something. We had a break and it was fucking horrible You know, and it was like petrol burn the house down kind of kind of gig. It wasn't pleasant And that's the first time I experienced the feeling of oh fuck. I'm going to die here I really did think I really did believe that and You know that where you where you think oh, I'm helpless can't do nothing. That's it. Then that's my number. Is it that? That's it There's like that terminalness to it and that scared me so much chris. It really did it really affected me and A couple of weeks later a friend of mine says come down do some kung fu And I was like I've done a bit as a kid because my family were involved in it um And I was like, I'm not interested. Anyway, they drag cut a long story short. They dragged me down there started in the kung fu um, and just kind of obsessed with it really um, so I really took it to heart and it gave me that structure that I wanted probably something similar to what you found in the military in terms of like regular training discipline self-respect Um, there's a kind of an order and a ranking system and the more you work The better you get and the higher you climb and the better you become within that organization So I did quite I did quite well just because I worked so hard. I didn't really have anything else going on wasn't the internet then was it and uh from there I went to um I just started going around all different schools, isn't it? I went very good at schools. It's lexic um got a high IQ but not very good at school um started traveling around all the different schools getting on the bus and going and trying This school that school the other school ended up in a chinese community center Um and kind of got taken in really and taken under their wing um trained there for a good few years and um Then went off to Hong Kong when I was about 17. That's where I got involved in Buddhism for the way so the guys at the at the um at the chinese community center Would dabble in things that they probably shouldn't have been. Um, and I know you you know about that sort of stuff and um A lot of them went to jail uh for very long stretches We're talking again We're talking the organized crime thing as opposed to the drug thing now, right? Yeah, yeah, no drugs. Yeah, no drugs um and um So what ended up happening was Again, I was left without anything to do really and without that family structure and and that was a driver For me very much So I thought right well, you know, I picked up a little bit of Cantonese a few words by then I was the only white kid training in in that in that community and I went off to Hong Kong And went out there to find some kung fu And to carry on training and find another sort of structure for myself really And uh, I came across a Buddhist monk And I'll never forget I I Had had a chat with this guy. He was sitting in there in these orange robes and stuff I was 17 year old kid from Birmingham. Um You know quite rebellious really as a as a youth. Um, and I said to him Excuse me, can I word and he spoke English? Yeah. Yeah. I said what's what's with the whole, you know Like wearing an orange sheet. Um, no disrespect. But what was it all about? And he said he said I'm a Buddhist says what was that? and he said well he said Buddhism is like If you think about it like this, he goes, you know on a tree you've got leaves, right? And he goes the leaves At the certain time of the year they fall down to the ground don't they I was like, yeah and he said well When the leaf falls down the wind blows it from the left to the right on the way down Right. Hmm. Okay. It's well Buddhism is about Learning how to not be so affected by the winds on the way down So what he was saying chris is um The practice of Buddhism Not the religion, but the practice of the philosophy like the understanding the meditation the study, you know He says that helps you not you you're born into the world You're that leaf you get dropped into the world and you're going to die. You're going to go back to the earth Right, you are that leaf The wind blows you left and right the sufferings the different kind of suffering that you encounter in life the different, you know The different things that you do that cause suffering And he said so the study of Buddhism helps you not to be so affected By the winds of suffering on your journey so you can travel in a more direct light direct path So that was what that so I went on Long story short. So I went to Hong Kong And then I was quite taken by that and I was like, wow, it really makes sense And I think that's kind of what I'm looking for. So I started studying that as well as the kung fu out there in Hong Kong And I found a great teacher who was a really positive human being. It was a good man. It was a member of The community, you know, in fact, his dad was not not knighted because of cbe or something from the queen But there were a good a good organization very positive and they worked with youth in Hong Kong and that was that was change of environments for me chris and The Buddhism got me into reading more and studying more. Um, and then I eventually eventually sort of came back and went to to university and did a degree in chinese in london and Over in in beijing as well Beijing. Yeah, so Kind of led me in a different path I don't know if our friends at home can see that one that I believe that's the buddha, isn't it? That is the buddha and then when you turn it it goes to guanyin. Yeah, is that the prince or is it? I don't know what that No, so basically the first one is a is a buddha in there. That's brilliant I've got to get one of that. Is that like a fridge magnet or something? I'm gonna explain it because what you've just said made me. I've just got it out of my wallet But but go on so guanyin is the goddess of compassion So she's popular in Hong Kong. You'll see a lot of guanyin. Do you get in Hong Kong? Have I just given myself bad bad luck because I thought she was a bloke No, no, she wasn't listening Chris there is some story that that I don't know what you call it saint or something like that in English. I suppose I think she was a man, but then turned into a woman because she had so much Compassion for I was a little bit right Yeah Yeah, no, I um And I want to let's let's go back and talk more about Hong Kong because that fascinates me that we've trod the same You know, we've trod in the same street Yeah, yeah No, I was just I think I just got off the star ferry and was making way making my way into Kowloon And one of the orange road said orange road monks came up and Do they go like like that or something and and I've got this stage in my life with sometimes I just can't be asked to Say no, I don't want to give you my money. So I swear. All right How much do you want and he went So I gave him a hundred Hong Kong dollars as what it's about a tenor, isn't it? And then he went and he gave me this And he He gave me this little flippy thing of the Buddha and this um this man girl And ever since this was 2000 and 11 so for 11 years I carried that in my wallet Um For good luck I'm not saying I'm massively superstitious, but I thought why not I'll keep that for good luck and my my dreams will continue to keep coming true and of course they They have but So 17 years old in Hong Kong. I was 25 so a bit older than you when I got there. What year were you there? you say 90 I guess it was probably like early 90 maybe 1991 something like that. I asked you guys to call me Yeah Yes, yeah, and which area did you live in? So I lived all over Initially I was in Kowloon because that's where the school was Um, and then I went up to um, I started I'd run out of money basically so I started living on over in the west side On mount st. Davis, which is they had like a youth hostel on the top of the mountain there And it was like two could a night or something you could stay there for so I was over there for a few Do you know that place? No, I'm just uh, I wish I could have found a place for two could a night when I was I know Isn't it It's really expensive It was a schlep though I have to say because I'd have to get up at like four o'clock in the morning It was about an hour down to about an hour and a half to walk up And then you'd have to walk down to the town get a tram and then get a bus It would take me like three hours to get to my teacher's school So and then of course, there's no food up there. There's hardly any electricity actually So you come up at the end of the night you're walking up for the mountain at night time It's pitch black for an hour and um If you go, I haven't got any food. I didn't bring any food. Let's walk back down to the 7 11 It's like an hour and a half down to get a pack of noodles, you know So it But I'll tell you what it's one of the best times of my life. It's really really happy up there. It's really fantastic So I was there for a while then I've lived back a few different places as well I've lived having uh, Chen Chao in the island the island one of the islands Yeah, so yeah all over really how many years did you stay there in hong kong Hong Kong Altogether like probably if you added it all up probably a couple of years Yeah, um, because I went there after uni as well started working out there Did you get did you get into Wan Chai much into the night clubs? I I didn't actually to be honest, um But um, I do know of the area. I might have been there once or twice I know it was kind of I was more like to be honest with you I wasn't really into I wasn't really mixing with the expat community and I know a lot of the expats Spent a lot of time there As you did, but it wasn't really a like if you've got to get up at four in the morning man You can't really go night clubbing, you know Yeah Just do what I did just you just stay up all night There is that for nine days on end and actually no don't do that Doesn't have a great result Yes It's got a very bad reputation, hasn't it Wan Chao You know, there's a lot of uh, there's a lot of trouble there although it certainly was, you know Back when when we were there Yeah, it was just It was interesting. I'm I had two different Hong Kong experience the very first time I ever went there Which was I was there for like a two week holiday I just didn't get under the skin at all. I was wondering these big streets And to be completely honest, I couldn't have told you Whether I was on the island Hong Kong Hong Kong island Or whether I was a mile away Across the sea on the mainland because the the the under in fact I didn't even use the underground system because I didn't know they had one right or I I was I was a young traveler So I I just thought you got buses and taxis to places, right? So everywhere I went I just jumped in a cab and I went under the harbour tunnel blah blah blah But a lot of the time I was realizing I don't actually know which part of this crazy huge Yeah vibrant metropolis am I in now? And Chris it was a different time scale, wasn't it mate? Because you know, they didn't have You didn't have google maps and you didn't have like the internet to read. I wear am I now and where's a restaurant Made I didn't even know what a guidebook was when I went out there first to choose like You just land don't you try and sort it out when you're on the ground And so it's a very different time frame Yeah It's interesting you say I didn't know that there were travel guidebooks until I started traveling in the americas about I don't know. Let's just say 10 years later So I'd rock up in a place whether it's Hong Kong china macao you know, thailand and I just say the taxidermy will just take me to the to the where's the bar area where can I get Where's it happening? I have my little backpack on and that's it. They go no, no, you you need a hotel No, I don't I want a beer take me where where can I get a beer and and that was kind of like my traveling But of course I missed out On all the touristy sort of things because I didn't know there were books that told you where all this stuff is So my first time in Hong Kong. I just I didn't get it. I I I actually started to get bored It was so tiring walking everywhere Yo in that case as well I I couldn't I would go in a restaurant look at a menu all in cantonese or in in in chinese hieroglyphics And I just I wouldn't know what to order so I'd walk out again And I'd go in mcdonald's so for two weeks in Hong Kong Should be a food paradise. I'm I'm eating, you know Bloody breakfast Burgers or whatever the thing, you know the egg the the egg mcmuffin or whatever and they are good over there though And they sell lemon tea as well in the mcdonald's. Well, that's the thing about Hong Kong. Isn't it that? It has such a huge competition with cantonese cuisine, which is the Yeah, one net probably next to thailand the best cuisine in the world if you ask me McDonald's has to be cheap so you can get When I was there you got a whole mcdonald's for a quid, right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah He's not they were really trying to push it weren't they to really try and Get into the market to compete with the cantonese food and the cantonese like the eating habits are really strong in their culture Mm-hmm. Yeah, they it's a shame they couldn't have just said that to the big junk food places, but So fast forward to when I actually lived there, which was the third my third time in Hong Kong And I First sus that there's an mtr So there's an underground the motor transport railway or whether motor transit railway and it can get you Anywhere in Hong Kong island or mainland within 20 minutes, right? Maybe maybe 40 minutes for the northern territories And that it was relatively cheap My business partner took me out for exotic dim sum and and all the rest of it Then you start learning about the street side restaurants and the noodles and You know, you learn how to ask for your favorite dish and get a beer with it and this kind of thing and then The more I got into the crystal meth The more inquisitive just to learn much more So I wanted to know about the triads. I wanted to know about this the hand signs that they used I wanted to you know Know about the tattoos. I'd go bodybuilding in the gym and they'd be surrounded by these big, you know Gangsters with all these dragon tattoos and stuff. I just found it fascinating Then I started to go down the alleyways the back alleys and the back streets and I find market places I didn't know existed I got friendly with lots of filipinas there the The girls in the service industry so the cleaning and the the nanny and this sort of stuff And they take me to a market And I'd watch a guy peeling snakes You know while they're still alive and then dropping them back in this creel Watch watch if it's just insane Then I'd wander into One chi market and see a guy smashing these cages with a stick and I'm what what is this? What is this? Some guy in a crowd go um He's saying this five five step snake This snake bite to you You don't take more than five step Sorry, I do the accent, but I'm not Be patched up and doing it because this is Hong Kong man. This fucking Hong Kong It's just a Such a blast, you know um And on top of that the first time I was there I was in Lan Quai Fong when the mass crush And 21 people got crushed to death. I think it was 11 people 21 crushed Crushed to death in the street out one of the streets in Hong Kong to the time. Yeah Was it New Year's was it or something? Yeah, New Year, New Year's crush, right? Me and this Matlow, we just wandered right down that street with all these dead people dying and shoes and ambulances and Uh, I was also on the street when Yip Kai Fung went on one of his ramp the the the famous armed robber went on when he's AK-47 rampages and was was and shot a woman dead in a Passerby dead When I got into working in Wan Chai later And then I realized that the nightclub I'm working in is run by the 14k And that this guy does this job for the board. He's an assassin. This guy's a street fighter This guy's the the gang leader. It was just like, oh my And I was living in the back streets of Wan Chai then so I was living between Wan Chai and Causeway Bay in the Kana. What it wasn't a slum area is a bit too extreme But it was extreme poverty So my flat didn't have running water. You know, it had running one running water tap and no no bath. No nothing My shower was a hole in in the floor All right, and the water used to just run down and run down onto the restaurants The roof of the restaurant below. There was no waste pipe or anything. It was um And then of course I learned the language and you can learn a lot about a country a place and its people by Understanding the language then by this time I'd love the food. I was doing the kung fu up on the roof of my building and then Then I had a real shock because I started to learn about the people and their superstition and their What what you might call extreme bitchiness like especially towards a Guailo You know massively high level of racism there and and this is fine for anyone listening guys there It's a different culture They they they only saw the first white person there In 18 something so Or maybe the very first Portuguese arrived there in like 1700 or something but what I'm trying to say is You know first time I went in China No one had ever seen a white man before ever everybody just flooded you like you were a rock star, right? and It's it's okay to understand racism in this construct, you know They just didn't They just thought they were superior to us and and maybe they didn't I think I think when I worked in the nightclub area and I I'd see it like a Chinese guy and They come in the western of clubs and they just stand there looking like a Can't use the expression that comes into my mind But you know looking like the odd one out really it was like they're standing there and they just It really did look like they felt second best in their own city, right? And I'd go over as the doorman or whatever and I You know, I'd see them reach for a cigarette and I'd just go over and give them a light. Oh my god Giving them that face chris, you know giving them that respect Especially with some of the guys I work with it. It was just like they They couldn't do enough for you then, you know Like this Guailo has just given me given me face If you look at the like the context of the history of the place as well, chris As you'll know that like they've been colonized, haven't they? It was a colony. It was a British colony for a long time and the sort of detail surrounding how we How what we did in order to get that as a colony are pretty shocking and horrific And I think that that's left a lasting impression on a lot of the people there Especially like more over the poor of people like the working classes there and I think that's sort of the stem of maybe some of the um the Perhaps, you know, the racism some of the horrible words that are used sometimes, you know towards foreigners But it tends to be like the working classes and the uneducated that will use those sort of words towards foreign people like us, you know And I think I can't imagine I I can't imagine what it must be like honestly To actually have been I try to put myself in there, you know in their shoes I think what must it be like mate to be colonized by another country and then The the social system the justice system everything is something that's kind of alien to you and it's imposed by a foreign power I can't I just I think so I try to empathize in it in a way But but but you're right. You do get a bit of stick from time to time from certain elements and I just think it's um I can't help but think it's half of our own fault to be honest. It's like a it's like a reaction to How badly we actually treated a lot of the people over there Yeah We can explore that a bit so for friends listening example of the kind of racism, which is it's it's almost quite because there's a Because there's a white european I've had people racist against me And of course It doesn't really affect you because you're not an oppressed minority as a white european You're in the sort of, you know, the super Superior class Yeah, you know, I sorry superior class isn't what I meant. I meant that you you do Generally tend to have an privilege that you can go home to right. So I was traveling in garner Guy ana in south america And I went in I was in the bar and the barman wouldn't serve me I was excuse me can have a beer And he just like literally would not make eye contact and he served this guy next to me And they speak english there. It's you know, it's not like they don't understand english. It's an english speaking um Colony, I think Guy ana was colonized by the uk wasn't it? I think not friend. Not friend. Not french. Guy ana Suriname is there. I think was the dutch um Venice swaler. I think was the spanish. But I think guy ana was anyway, it's it's a relevance I'm there in georgetown in this stream poverty guy wouldn't serve me and do you know what in in that little Microcosm now that little mini experience Yeah, I felt awful that this guy was treating me like this based on the color of my skin. He didn't know me, right? Yeah, so I You know, that's empathy, isn't it when you can understand what other people go through but In hong kong it was just funny where You'd be sat on the underground so the mtr And the chinese would sit next to you that that that they you know, they weren't that against you A black chat would come in and sit opposite you and immediately the two people on either side of them would just get up and walk away it's You know, it was or I've been on the underground and this old deer Is like moved moved away and she's just looked up at the counter gone the guilo. Yeah, he stinks He stinks and everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah, right and it's just it This is what i'm saying. It's that stronger thing that it's not it's not that this one's nasty or anything It's just it's a different culture. It's just different. Um But yeah, so We stole the island basically didn't we we we Levered it from china to use it as the base to flood the country with opium that we imported from india In order to rob the silks from the place and the and the chinese silver We colonized the whole population and used them as our as coolies. I think was the kind of you know, basically Almost slave slave labor They were then destined to live in big ugly massive sink estate housing areas while the Westerners took all the beautiful land in hong kong and they live up on the peak with You know mid levels in these luxurious penthouse kind of skyscrapers and will they live in The bay at the back of hong kong where it's just idyllic And their their prospects are very limited. They are they will only ever be working in an office the vast majority Uh of hong kongers will be sat behind a computer screen their whole lives until they die Until they you know, if they're lucky enough to retire Yeah, it's and on top of that you've got the british attitude of You know it was the upper classes that colonized these places, wasn't it the the the the middle classes there They're kind of puppet middle management And back then it was the bloody savages the bloody savages, you know, so the whole Yeah, just was just adding a bit of um Color there. Yeah adding a bit more to what you said chris So you can kind of understand the frustration can't you really? Yes, I agree. Yeah But but that all said wonderful place wonderful people. Yeah, and the majority of experiences are very positive Well, again, we should point out to the other side of the coin The English presence there did a lot of kind of good. They weren't communist china big brother You weren't going to get pulled off the empty T half of pickpocketing someone and shot dead on the platform like they were in china, right? You're not going to have children crippled and Left in begging bowls, right? Which is happening on in the mainland um There were a lot of crossover traits like you never saw Disabled people in hong kong when I was there, right? So I'm guessing they arrive a euthanasia eyes. I like killed at birth Or they were hidden behind closed doors out out of shame of losing face um But on the other hand you had british justice system, which was much more fair than obviously it's chinese counterpart You had the brit the system of commerce where You know, there's still a chance in hong kong. You can make it as a millionaire. You you haven't got that in china, right? Or you you didn't back back then under common under This anti capitalism type of communism that they had then um so yeah, it's It I think a lot of cantonese people. So that's chinese people who were born and bred in hong kong Actually probably now wish it was still back under the british I think you're getting a lot of people wanting to um Immigrates to or emigrates to england, aren't you with the recent troubles that they're having over there? Yes They may so you feel very close to britain and we have done obviously, uh, you know an awful lot of Buddhist hospitals You know education systems, which of course they have in china that um, but it would like You say in the time frame the 40s 50s 60s, etc when china was struggling a lot more um Yeah, there was a lot of good that was done What was your favorite food over there chris? Where where like hong kong or china? Well, I either i've been in both Um, what's my favorite food? I could tell my worst food is Um, do you want to know that? Uh, let me guess Is it going to be related to smelly fish? No well Maybe one of them was go on then dick dick dick I had a lot of dick. I had a lot of dick I bet not many people come on your show and say that do they chris? May we we've all had to do that in our lives We've all had a lot of that We've got to pay the bill somehow we've been spoiled The worst thing I ever it like jokes aside was I went to I went to a restaurant and they just served like a platter of penis And it was it was all kind of dick chris. There was sea lion dick, which wasn't actually that fishy to be fair donkey, uh, there was uh sheep There was dog as well, which was a little bit on the slimy side um I forget there's about 12 of them. No, that was the worst thing I've ever because I don't know if you've ever eaten um Like dick in china, you know in the restaurant itself wasn't very clean and uh I have to say I don't think it was properly. I don't think it was very thoroughly prepared because it's stunk It's it's stunk chris and um, that was um, that was the worst thing I've had The best thing is probably like duck or something like that isn't it? They took is fantastic and the jowds are, you know the dumplings and dim sum of course in hong kong God just talking about it makes me feel hungry And of course the seafood is incredible. Lobster was my favourite Oh, yeah The way they prepare it with the lemon the lemon sort of sauce and stuff. Oh gosh and the garlic and the ginger just incredible Makes you want to go back now So when did you get your when were you awarded your first or when did you earn your first black belt? Oh, gosh, um, you know um, I guess What you'd probably well, I I tell you what I was I was first awarded like a teacher status uh, when I was I guess I was 18 Probably but by then I've been doing it for you know, five six years Pretty much full on So the teacher status like there's as I was told to go teach now right now. You've qualified off you go and teach 18 19 Maybe I was 19 actually anything Wow In which discipline? That was kung fu. So, um, I it was in an art school young woman in hong kong and um Yeah, it's a Shaolin based system That my teachers father had taught him and his teachers father had taught him So it had been passed down through the generations. It was really pretty cool. I think It's quite a rare style. Um, and it means can you repeat the name of it? Yeah, young woman young mandarin Yeah, in mandarin, it's rogue woman And it means soft. So the road the road character means soft Same as judo in japanese judo like in japanese if you'd pronounce it with jude Uh, a gun means kung fu the same gun And then man the word man means door or gate and it's an old It's a term that is used before the words like nowadays. You've got trend like, you know, like koon like like, um Hong kong koon koon the style or the fist in the old days that same month, which means the the gateway to So it's the gateway to the soft kung fu. I suppose it was called And it was so yeah, that was that was the first real thing that I Um, sort of qualified in to to go teach Uh, yeah Can you tell us the history or perhaps like You know, you hear this stuff about Shaolin kung fu, don't you that it was It was taught to the returning warriors when they hid out in the monastery Um, yeah Over to you Yeah, sure. So um any specific area because this is something I'll wrap it on about for hours Well, just the just so I mean if I was to ask you Chris, where did kung fu come from? How did it originate? What would you tell me? Um, I probably bore you to death because you know, I wrote an encyclopedia on the on this So, um, I'll just stop me in the tracks chris if I'm waffling because I do tend to waffle a bit Um, so I suppose all right, and I'm going to stop you there I mean we started yeah, can we talk about me again, please? It's a kung fu Sorry brother go on go for it. You're all right, mate. Um, so with the kung fu, where did it start from? I suppose, um One popular belief is that uh, the monk called damu an indian monk was traveling Indian Buddhist monk traveled across on foot to china from india And he landed in the northern Shaolin temple about two thousand years ago something like that and he was Sadden he was he was a practitioner of kala kala kala I always pronounce this wrong kala rata priyatu So in indian martial art he landed there and he was so he was doing yoga And he was he was stick fighting and doing martial arts and stuff in india And he thought you know what these monks need a bit of physical exercise So he started teaching there Um, like yogic type exercise, which eventually became Shaolin kung fu So that's the popular known about sort of The theory of how kung fu evolved, but there's another Theory which is less proved but probably more realistic. So whilst we know all that stuff did happen Um It there's Shaolin temple over the course of its history has also been a hiding place for bandits and criminals So, uh, where would you go if you're on the run? All right, so We know that happened and we think that maybe there was some influence from um Those people who've done martial arts Um practically and they bought their fighting arts and shared them with with the monks in the in the temple who had an interest in Uh martial arts for life of preservation So it's a bit of a melting pot really chris. Um, we know historically as well China Because there's records of this. Um, there's there's actual written records In in paintings k paintings and text that there's codified martial arts been going on there for over 5 000 years There's an art called jiao jiao tea and um, I think jiao tea and they would like they'd fight they knew through throws They knew grabs. They knew locks. They knew head butts. They'd wear like horned kind of antlers and You know skewer each other for competition So we know that codified martial arts practice was practiced there. In fact, as it was in egypt You know, we've got uh the tombs of i won't bore you with all the details of tombs of benny hassan Um that they found and their date carbon dated at 5 500 years old. There's hieroglyphic works there um showing um codified practice of martial arts Which to be honest looks a lot like judo Because there's throws and grabs and you know breaks and um all that sort of stuff So it's it's been going on for ages, mate And I think a lot of people just claim it don't they they say well taz or taz or You know for whatever reason they've got I've just got an image here. Did you say china the skewering? Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah come come come around my place tonight. I'm good We can eat some dick and then i'm gonna skewer you It's not it's got altogether new meaning, isn't it that yeah I think you're gonna get many takers for that. Well, I don't know you might be surprised. You never know. Yeah It's a changing world chris. Yes, of course so um Yes kung fu did it originate as a fighting Art or was it like more like a yoga or you know meditative kind of thing or a sport Well, I think it's far. I think the fighting art to be honest with you It's rough back in the day, wasn't it and um in the period of cold weaponry like you know steel and Before we had guns and explosives and and stuff all the you know gunpowder was used in that way. I think I think it was much more important to be able to Know your way around a blade a bladed weapon. Um, so Yeah, I think it's just been practical for people to for guards to protect certain people to protect prison or to to move prisoners around from a to b to To protect gold and the transfer of gold Historically those were the sort of jobs that martial arts were were used for So it's it, you know war has been around doesn't it chris for since mankind has been around and then People have wanted to get better at it better at war Because it's not nice to get skewed is it? So I think I think that's you know, you know, I mean it becomes codified and then You know, yes Break off and do their own thing, but ultimately it's all the same in a fairly fighting And is it true then that I mean in Cantonese it was I think it was gung fu Gung gung they call it gung instead not not the kung that we do in the west Is it true that means open hand or or originally it did no Karate isn't it karate Actually, I'll tell you a story. So yeah karate kara Te te is hand and kara is the chinese word for kong means empty But originally when karate was evolved, you know karate originally came from china And it was originally called china hand not empty hand But then as it transferred, I think from arcana to Which is a lot closer to china and had a lot of chinese influence When it transferred over to the mainland of japan, they then changed the name. They didn't want it to be called Chinese hand Or a name that would spread better in japan Yeah, well, they've not always had the best relationships those two countries, have they That's putting it mildly Yes And um How many Martial arts now are you sort of proficient in what Is it mainly chinese based ones or certainly chinese really i've done a bit of the other stuff as well You know i've done a bit i've mixed and matched a little bit But essentially it's chinese stuff that I love yeah So i've studied a range of different kung fu is tai chi and that's what i teach now i teach tai chi i teach kung fu and But yeah, it's chinese arts essentially i've studied a bunch of different chinese kung fu's yeah It's all the same ultimately there's just different ways of doing things and different flares and different emphasis is really I know i you know a lot of people who come on and they they sort of say when they're talking about my thoughts This is better than that and that's better than that and well, how could you say they're all similar? Well, they are to be honest because there's only so many ways you can eat somebody Yeah, you know you dress it up. Do you know me dress it up as much as you like but ultimately yes, you know I mean the philosophy has got to be That of bruce lee is it is it not be like one beat? I mean you got to do whatever does the job and you not not anticipate what might do the job You've got to be fluid in that moment and someone's going to stick a head But probably the most obvious thing is just like move out the way. You know, I mean that's your first reaction, isn't it? Or avoid it before it comes, you know If you can read the situation before and you can see imagine closer into your space You know make sure that you've got that fence up, you know that you're at a distance where you don't let them get too close You know, yeah Or just Dialogue the situation say Want to eat some dick Walk this way yeah I'll show you the best dick in town Probably down this little dark alley. It's going to be interesting to see if youtube demonetized this one It would have been worth it though It's all food chris. So let's just get some boy's own questions at you then chris. So Have you ever had to use it in a real situation? Yeah Tell us what how did that materialize a few times A few few times to be honest if you this it didn't materialize too well if you see this see this knuckle's gone here Oh flat knuckle. Yeah, so that that's all right that one, but this one's gone. Yeah Yeah Yeah, I was I got into you know I got into scrapes didn't I as a kid growing up as a young man looking for adventure And not really being not you know being I wouldn't say I wouldn't say gobshark But like I wasn't as a younger man. I didn't really know how to diffuse situations chris. I didn't really know how to you know Maybe I I didn't know how to really communicate well and I didn't know how to To back down really and to walk away You know, I think it's lack of confidence really ultimately lack of self confidence as a younger man and so Yeah, I I I I have had experiences which um You know resulted in You know fighting um For the most part I've done all right. I've been able to look after myself Um, but as you'll know yourself when you find yourself in rough places um, and you're a bit Sort of orientated towards finding a bit of adventure Sometimes you go down the wrong, you know, you go down the wrong way a little bit in life and um Yeah, so So, I mean my problem like working the door doors in hong kong particularly on this one club that I mentioned because I had the anti-progression So I went from being very spiritual Spiritualistic in my door work, which is what you need to be right? Yep. Yep. So for example three Six foot two black dudes would be walking down through wanchai three abreast right blocking the pavement Blocking the sun everything just yeah right and um You know immediately they're american servicemen off off one of the ships in the harbour right You know for the simple reason you don't really see back in the 90s You didn't see many black people in You didn't see them out about they tended to be part the the um The immigrant community that hung around chunky or lived in chunky mansions, right the the cheapest Yeah, my my my buddy ghanay and ghanay and mark and um So these guys will come up to the door and of course our club was just an rc club It had a rule no servicemen and and it also had a rule no fur and no no hats um It just had real finicity sort of owners. So oh hang on Hey So I just like to Do a stylish little bit a little bit of kung fu every now and then to keep my Keep in the nasal passages. Yeah, and keep my skills up. You know because you never know do you? I mean you never know So So there I am. I've got three guys that each of them are twice the size of me They come up to the door and they do the you know go to walk in the club and you'd have to go Gentlemen, I can't let you in I'm afraid um Why not motherfucker? Uh, it's There's no servicemen Right and I I went down well to me after a few days. Oh my god I'd point to the board which literally had 20 rules listed on it, right? Anyone who remembers joe bananas in hong kong will know Exactly what i'm talking about, right? There's they had a board which listed it, you know It's almost like things like no boas and it was just Hey, I got it. I got it. It's like if you've got too much money and you've got too much power you You can yeah invent a load of crazy shit rules anyway so How do you know with servicemen mother trucker? I'm like, um because Like I've lived in hong kong eight months and I've never even Seen another black guy let alone three walking side by side uh In perfect formation where yeah, we're in georgetown sweatshirts With the muscles you guys got look at that look at that And then the guys like oh, yeah, you know, yeah, I work out and I am oh well I was military. Yeah, I was in uh in the marines back in the day. Oh, you're a marine. Oh, dude. Yeah, okay All right, we're gonna go and find somewhere else. Cheers, buddy Right, and that was it. I was a good dormant, you know, I could diffuse situation I I could see stuff happen. I could see trouble. I knew how to go up to a guy and go you're right bud Guy giving you our time mate. Just just ignore just a oh, yeah. Thanks, mate. You know, just little Psychological techniques to diffuse trouble without having to fight or throw somebody out, right? Um by the time I'd worked through three nightclubs and I was in my fourth One of those nightclubs instantly was a DJ of the biggest club in southern china, which is just another Another adventure again, but by the time I got in this triad run club I was so like strung out on the crystal meth That I I'd gone from being that nice cozy sort of docile not docile, but you know disarming dormant to Someone that really felt quite violent and needing, you know, I'm not going to take any shit I'll work with a triad. You know, this guy's an assassin. This guy's a street fighter Don't come in our club and fuck with us, right? And the trouble it was chris. I didn't know how to fight But I was fearless right that is a bad combination So the next time these um, you know next time is an american or Next american ship that came in one of these dudes and I'm telling you if you're listening they like basketball players They are huge these african americans that man the ships not all of them are huge obviously, but they just have just They come from big stock, you know So I got this guy wandering around in basketball kit I mean literally had a basketball vest on and he's got a beer that he's bought in the 7 11 And of course I'm like Dude, don't drink that whereas before I'd go bud. Look, can I just put that down here if you just grab it on the way out It's just my boss he'll get up. Yeah, the guy would have gone. Oh, yeah, buddy. Yes. No instead. I'm like, hey, dude Fucking outside with that, you know, like my attitude is changing And of course I I threw these two dudes dudes out and uh Then they or that I threw this dude out and he came back 10 minutes later One of his mates was equally as huge and they stood at the top doorway going come on out, mother trucker Come on. We we are gonna kill you. We are gonna and I like being You know not never having backed down from a fight. I just wandered up I start to make my the steps fortunately the Triad big brother the gang leader was counting the money at the left counting the takings at the lectern and he went This guy never looked at you. He just what his body told you what to do. He went Just put his arm out like that and I kind of stopped And then the guys like come on in mother trucker. Come on out. We're gonna kill and I'm like so I went for it again and the boss goes And uh, when a triad big brother tells you not to do something you you have to obey right when you're bossing In under confucianism tells you anything you you have to obey so I was quite pleased he intervened Because those guys probably would have beaten the shit out of me chris, you know To have you ever been in that? Oh, I mean have you Um, can you give us examples of have you ever been unfairly picked on where the other guy's not gonna back down and you've had to think Oh, fuck yeah, how did you I mean, well quite a few times, right quite a few times Um, where there's a number of them. Do you mean or? Well, whatever. I'm just I'm looking for a story. Come on. We want some bruce lee shit. Well being a bit evasive, aren't I really? Yeah, you're being humble mate and this um humble is There's a time and a place for humble and it's not now I'll tell you a story that winded me up in um, Sri lankan prison if you like For a few days. It wasn't very long um, so yeah, I was out there on holiday and um with my girlfriend at the time and her sister And um, I don't know if you've ever been to Sri lankan. It's a lovely country and they do these great oil massages And nothing funny about it, but they're quite into their eye value medicine. So here I am on the beach having in the hotel having this massage and My girlfriend comes running in with a sister and a sister's like got a big massive welts on her head across the face and like What are you disturbing my massage for girls? I didn't I said, what's wrong? What's wrong? And they said well, there's a guy outside at just um basically he jumped on uh, one of the girls and tried to sexually assault her plain day on the beach And um, the sister had got involved and gone what the fuck you doing tried to drag him off and he Picked up a log that was on and whacked across the head with it and um, again, I was a younger man at the time and um, a little bit more temperamental I suppose So I went to So right, which direction did he go in because it's not acceptable. Is it doing that sort of thing? He's not acceptable Right, so I'm not one to get into trouble myself. I don't go looking for it But I wasn't quite I was in a very bad mood had what I'd just seen, you know And heard and so I went I went I went looking for him and I got him and he was in the next village along and It didn't it didn't go well for him uh I got gave him a bit of a hiding to be honest and um Then some banana farmers came down with with the machetes and all that um And he got a little bit ugly. He got a little bit ugly cut a long story short. I ended up I I knew the police were sort of looking for me. So I handed myself in Uh, because they told me I went back to the hotel Did you disarm the people with the machetes or did you knock them out or something or? I I I took out I took out three of the lads with this one this one bloke, right and And then when the machetes luck came I I spoke to them. I said, right, this is Kind of like I thought fucking I'm not I don't want to get into this I've done what I needed to do. I'd spoken to and had words. Let's say with With those other guys And I managed to kind of de-escalate a little bit with the banana farmers to be fair There was probably about 10 of them with big hooks machetes either being mean to me, you know I managed to de-escalate and get out very quickly and I went back to the hotel and told me, you know Police are looking for you. So I went as far as I was because I didn't do anything wrong So I went to the police station and I said, look, I'm here voluntarily. Um, this is what happened And uh, they decided to hold me because they wanted money and they said, well, what's happened is the one guy who Did what, you know, you said he did you crushed his Windpipe so he got to go to hospital. He's in hospital. He's got to pay for it. So, you know crushed his, you know And uh, so I wasn't going to pay basically I was a little bit um, religious about it. I'm like I'm not I'm not fucking, you know, you write you're trying to rape somebody in midday a girl Then somebody else gets involved and you hit him across the head A young woman with a log Um, I've gone to try and catch him for you A fighter's broken out and his mates have come out and they've been acted violently So what am I supposed to do? Two of them tried to grab me and put my hands up. I was like, I'm not having that So I gave him a good hiding and um as a result of that some the the chaper got injured with his voice box He couldn't speak It was quite funny actually because they came down to the station. Um after his hospital treatment, he was kind of like Just speaking like that and um I have to say I I didn't feel sorry for him. My normal buddhist um Empathy just wasn't wasn't really there that day um, so You know the the chap was known to the police and it wasn't the first time he'd done it apparently so Yeah, I have kind of in my younger days. I have kind of um, you know, I have sort of um Got myself in and out of sort of trouble, but I would know I was never going to look for trouble Chris and I was never trying to hurt anybody at all. Um, but but certain things I I I feel very strongly that sometimes we have to act. Um In certain circumstances, mate, you know, so Yeah, probably could have handled it a bit better, but you know Yeah, I was chatting there when I spoke to Steve Green the other day We we we were chatting along a similar thing and that is in our day If you were out of order, you got a punch, you know And then it taught you not to be out of order the next time Now there's so many protective measures in place and laws against that kind of behavior and to a degree It's quite rightly so but You know, there was a reason that you got punched or you punched someone it's when that they Overstepped the mark and by taking away that kind of um That control measure, let's say You then give people an unrealistic Idea of what it is to be in a community and by community. I mean our You know local community our community as a country or the internet community, right? So you got young people now It's quite funny You know, they talked to 51 year old 51 year old combat veteran Like you're a piece of shit Right, not that being a veteran means that you I know you say, you know respect is earned It's not something you just get given because you were in the 40s when you were when you were a teenager, right? But but what I mean is it's like dude. I'm like 51 When I was your age, we would never have spoken to you know It's not not even like being like abusive or any I just mean that like the whole way is like, yeah we'll fuck, you know, there's this kind of You know, my narratives just like way more important to me than yours do and you know, you don't understand And it's like dude. I'm 51. I've lived in 87 countries. I I kind of like know life probably a bit better than you and and Because you've been allowed to get away with this attitude all your life because no one's ever been allowed to smack you one You you you're living under the delusion that this this way of being is acceptable And this and it and it's not about the the pain that you're putting out on to others with this belligerent You know, I can say what the hell I want, you know, it's the fact that You're going in the complete opposite direction of I was going to say enlightenment, but probably maybe you'll end up so unhappy that That you won't come around it. Yeah, you'll you'll you'll do what I did get so unhappy. You've got to work out enlightenment, but Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Yeah Interesting Different age different age What about the fighting spears the the asagai Did I see you doing a bit of tv work around that? Uh, is it the zulu fighters? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's zulu land. Yeah, I went out to film um a show out in in in Well, we were out in Durban and then we went out from um out into zulu land. Yeah, and I got to um have a fight with Who was the tribal champion actually? he was the son of a Son of a chief out there and I absolutely loved that place man. Those people are so warm. They're so incredible Such such an incredible race of people. So yeah, I've got to spend time out there and I went to see shamans and witch doctors and spent time with them Um, and I've done that kind of stuff before, you know, in South America and in various parts of Asia But yeah zulu land was incredible. So yeah, we had a we had a stick fight. So I um It's a funny story there if you're interested. I I was um at the time again I guess when was that man? That was like I was living in South Korea at the time And my son used to play do you remember the week like the we he had the week. Do you ever have a we? It's like one of them. Ah, yes. Yes. I mean, you know, I mean that um It's like a game. It's like the older type like xbox or whatever. Yeah. Anyway, he used to be Chris he used to be playing this game right on on there. There's this we sports and it's like I think it was like kendo stick fighting. It was kendo or something like that on there and you get these hand controllers and you move them around and um, I was trying to do the research because I knew I was going out there to fight and um I was trying to find like what how did these guys fight? I'd never experienced it before I've never really seen it and I got a couple of videos on youtube Which kind of gave you a hint about their stick fighting art, which is really really cool by the way And um, and I was talking to my son about it He was about five or six years old at the time and he's like dad. Come on. Let's practice on the way. This is how you're going to do it And anyway, my my six-year-old son came up with this strategy like on the way that when they hold the the stick this way Uh on this sword fighting game if you strike that way, it's going to block the stick, right? So when whenever the sticks up you don't hit them across you hit them down Whenever the sticks if the if their block is across then you hit them across And so I just trained that in and I was I was trying to move in a certain way So I could take advantage of the way that they they defend them and and it worked surprisingly. Yeah It's very good very very interesting Incredible I love all that the um african history Yeah, yeah all the stuff about the the zulu Sounds unfair saying the zulu wars, isn't it? It's more like the zulu genocide Oh Just another native population genocided to make way for White european progress and no i'm not bashing white european people here folks. I'm just i'm actually talking about history Yeah, um, yeah and um, I mean you cut you It it's easy to look back at a situation to understand it. That's one thing, isn't it? Like I understand it you had very You know money and wealth orientated settlers arrive on a nation that looked like the land of The continent looked like the land of milk and honey man The only trouble is there's some other people living here but Their ways are such so different to us We can kind of like manipulate them for the most part, you know We'll just give them a load of shit and tell them it's cool And then if they don't if that doesn't work We'll get the old guns out because they've only got spears and we'll That will send them a good message and then of course you encroach more and more on their their pastoral land and their their hunting grounds and their agricultural lands that that they've got no choice but to fight back at which case you massacre them in their thousands, right? so um Yeah, it's not not It is just the way of the world, isn't it? But the when you When you're in sueto so the ghetto in in johannesburg The township as it is it's called you actually are looking at the repercussions of our behavior Back in the 19th century when we had like uh rork's drift and is is ala one Is a wander You're actually looking at the displacement of these people in their own homeland that are now shoved into shanty towns And they still have their history still have their spears, you know, and they still They still sing and dance the tribal songs, but So it you know, it is a thing it it's not like oh that that was ages ago in history, chris, you know If it's like no, it's it's still to this day. They're they're the oppressed minority Yeah, it's affecting people All over the world. Yeah But yeah, I I love you know, I've read a lot of wilbur smith. He talks about the asa guy the stabbing spear and the You know the shields and the impi warriors and And the horns of the bull was their fighting tactic, wasn't it their pincer movement was called the horns to movements here hands of the bull Yeah Can we talk about your television work because that's quite um You know, it's quite an achievement, isn't it to get yourself on TV now now. It's the opposite. No one wants to be on mainstream media, but Well, I guess our Middleton still does bless him Sorry, that sounded really patronizing and I didn't mean it like that. I just meant he's doing really well with it, isn't he? You know, he's really really he's really smashing out the tv shows and good good credit to the guy um, but Um, yeah, you've done a lot of it. How did it how did it come around? Yeah um, well Long story short, I suppose About two year 2000. I think I 99 to cause I came back to the uk. I've been overseas for a long time and um Went to drama school and started doing bits and bobs in theater. I wasn't very good Um And uh, I wasn't paying the bills. I was renting this like rooftop apartment. She's an absolute shithole In north london just struggling to pay the bills, mate And honestly, it was like it didn't even have a toilet in this place. This is in north london It was like it was in there was like a a toilet in the bedroom that reeked a piece it was dreadful like absolute hovel and um Yeah, so I just thought I can't I can't do this and getting odd gigs in theater and stuff. So I started um Trying to break into tv. So I wrote a bunch of formats for tv start pitching them around No one was listening Uh knocking on doors. I just thought well I I believe that there could be a show in martial arts on tv And so I started meeting producers going to production houses around london And most of them said the same thing to me. It's a niche within a niche. It's never gonna You're never gonna do that. It's just not interesting Uh and then 2003 I've got a job at bbc making the show that I'd Created my body kick ass moves and it was basically it was like I've done a lot of traveling in my time I've done a lot of studying with different masters. That's what the show's about So I went around and just filmed with loads of different masters in different countries and See what they did get and get involved with their stuff And um lo and behold that first one they played that on the bbc for five years made non-stop Just kept repeating it. Um it held viewers. It just held the viewership And um at the time Can I ask you about the money side of it then what what what was your How did you how was that an earner for you? So yeah, so basically I got paid as a presenter. So I had three contracts With them one was as a presenter um, I got Backend payments as well as the right. I got a writer payment and I got A creator whatever it is. I forget the name of the contract, but it basically gave me A really good percentage. I forget what it was. It was a really good percentage of international sales and in the show, of course became one of the best-selling BBC TV shows in his in BBC TV history bizarrely for something that was niche and from BBC three They sold it to over 180 countries worldwide So, um, it wasn't kind of it's not it's BBC three money So it's not the kind of you can't you can't retire on it But um, I was able to pay my bills for the first time in my life, you know, and um, you know, uh, yeah So so that did really well. Um That's how it started chris, you know, it's just like uh perseverance really knocking on doors and just saying to people No, I believe it when they're telling you no, that's no good. It's no good Yes Like me talking into my webcam, isn't it? It's got you've got like that self-belief to start with and just believe in it and to start doing it and eventually Whatever it is, you'll get there, you know yeah and Did the BBC try to interfere with the narrative much did they try to shape it this way or that or was it just not really that sort of program It did a bit on the first one. Oh, sorry. It did it did a little bit um On the second one more. So I would say the second C series that I did with them. Um Yeah, there was a bit more of that going on and like when you first go into TV Or any kind of creative thing Chris, you know yourself You're like you're quite precious about the work that you're doing and you think well No, I've got this vision I want it to be like this and you fight for that and stuff, but eventually like I came to realize that Um, I was a bit late to the party really realizing this because I'm a bit dim enough that way But you realize actually, you know what? What these people are saying is actually they know their job really well And they're they're trying to tailor it to their audience. So Just make it, you know, be more collaborative and I wasn't when I first started I wasn't as collaborative. I was more, you know, I still had that hard mindset of like no This will work, which is what you've got to have to get to that first place But then you need to soften yourself and say right now. I'm here. I need to Collaborate and work with people that kind of take their opinions on forward more Without losing your own shape and that's a skill in itself Because you're either like from my training probably similar to yours, Chris It's like you're either taking orders or you're giving them. It's one or the other You know what I mean? And then so to be the guy who's you've gone from You're like, well, no, I'm not taking orders now. I'm giving them In terms of you, you know, I mean in terms of your physical training and your martial arts or your your military background or whatever So you you you get to a position of authority where you finally the vision has worked and and this thing's working And you want and you're still strong to that vision But then you have to soften yourself a lot and really start taking on board Like other people's I know it's it's probably makes me sound like an absolute wanker, but it's not like that It's like you've got a strong vision Hey, you have to you know, I mean you've got to develop that skill set Chris here Mate, we do a whole podcast and it would be like a five hour one just discussing what you're saying because it's I mean I give you one example from writing, you know my history until I did podcasting was writing for the previous 10 10 years and There are there is so much stuff to learn to be a consummate writer and publisher By publisher. I don't necessarily like you've got your own publishing. I mean to to understand the process of it all. Yeah and There's a balance between your art And what's going to sell there's a balance between your creativity And what needs to be edited There you go. There's a balance between your morals And Giving the audience what what what they want that for me obviously is as someone who tries to be a bit moralistic in my At least in what I what I you know put out on my youtube channel. That's the hardest one hardest one is you know It I don't know if you ever notice I In all my military videos or anything to do. I always want to explain both sides of the fence, you know I just want to explain the like what war really is and you know what conflict really is and that's because I can't I can easily have a channel Just saying our military soldiers are the best people in the world They're just all heroes and and and and yeah You know And then bang this smashing his audience down on this enemy and bang, baby, you know It's not really telling the true story. Is it and If I thought I don't mind young people listen to my story thinking, do you know what I want a bit of that? I'll join them. You know that that's just life, right? But I want them to know that I have told you Right, forget the freedom and democracy shit. That's just the rhetoric they tell you at the recruiting office, you know You'll go into massacre other teenagers And a lot of people will get very rich off it, right? You you need to know that that's primarily Your role not saying that, you know, you might know you might not be Deployed in a peacekeeping, you know, a genuine peacekeeping capacity but but when you look back at war and who's Traditionally profits from it. It's not the people Something young kids don't evolve. So I get it. I get it. I can see where You know, you've had to compromise. I can see where it's like And it's exactly same with youtube chris You know at some point you have to I don't say take a knee, but it's the equivalent at some point. You've just got to just Like take one for your own team and it's hot and You know, but if you're putting content and no one's watching it and it's not working the youtube out There isn't much point being on that platform. You've got to move you've got to move on and For me, I balance it up a lot with saying well, look, I think over archingly the message I put out helps young people You know, yeah, it helps them make sense of life, you know Sometimes it's brutally honest and not everyone's ready for that. But it's that's just it on the other hand You know You have to sometimes Like I've never resorted to the clickbait thing and I see most other content producers do they'll put a video out That's it. I'm quitting And you're like, oh my god, my my favorite content provider's quitting youtube But he's got like 10 million subs. I've got to watch this and you know, he says that's it guys I'm quitting sugar You know, oh, oh, right. Oh, yeah. Okay. So you've just got like 15 million views off the back of a complete Roos I think ultimately that pisses people off chris doesn't it? I mean it pisses me off if I'm watching something and you just you know, I just I've just been like I've just been tricked into clicking this. It's like I don't want to go there again in the future Um, it just annoys me. So I think so I have a genuine following is much more important than just having the numbers, you know And it's interesting, you know, it just is interesting and I think The problem guys like you and I are gonna Have to to negotiate chris is that we've got We understand that our moral compass is intrinsically tied into our spiritual well-being They they're not mutually exclusive the decisions we make in this life or what we will have to live with You know, not in eternity. He's not the right thing But you know, we have to live with under universal law so Yeah, if I Yeah, well, we just have to and and it becomes Something that when you're working with other people you then have to negotiate um For example a youtube producer Wants you to be the most controversial hateful bitter backstab in I'm not talking about my wonderful ben here by the way, although we have had, you know conversations of this nature What what is the channel about and and I get it? He's got, you know, yeah, we we could make A hundred thousand dollars next year He's easily chris, you know, everything's in place to do that, but I won't do it because I sell it now It's like when the devil took jesus up on the mountain And said look around all this is yours if you come and work for me and jesus said you know He said if I come and work for you, I've got nothing Doesn't matter what I've got the material, you know, I've I've compromised my myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. It is fascinating. Um And also then there's the artistic level, isn't it, you know, I I've always tried to Whenever a publishing company's edited my books, I've always demanded to see What the changes they want to make before they change them, right? So I before it's too late and and it it rocks One of two ways some changes have to be made whether you like it or not They just that story you think is hilarious. It's actually not that funny to other people Yeah, yeah, that bit that descriptive, you know, the superfast sleek lined turbocharged sports It's like chris. That's a sporty car That's what the audience here is a sporty car. They know what a sporty car is, mate You don't have to fucking go. Yeah objectives, right? Yeah, but some of those things they've just been given right yet That's got to be chain, right, but then there's other things that If you employ military humor your editor isn't going to get it Some of these editors they're quite dorky every night. Yeah, but that's not funny It's like it is to me. It's hilarious and it will be, you know, and to the people that get it It will be funny. I know a lot of people won't but I'm not catering for them I'm an artist. I I do my art and if people like it, they buy into me They don't like it. They don't buy into me. This is but I stay True to myself, right? So you've got that as well um I can just only think that with the amount of tv work you've done you must have faced a lot of this Yeah, definitely Scrutiny mate scrutiny really and it's it's hurtful at first when someone says no, you're not saying that I tell you about it. I say I I I know exactly what you mean about that funny thing. I was in a Just this is how kind of tired you get sometimes when you're on the road I was doing a series for the BBC kick ass miracles and Looking back now, I'm so glad they edited this out because it's it's really stupid But at the time I was like, this is the fucking best things in the slice spread I was in a graveyard doing this piece to camera about we just Being like some of the graveyards in the Philippines, you know, they're like open. So there's a lot of You know bones and bodies and stuff like that um And we've been it been in there for like I actually think it made I don't think I'm not sure can't remember that made it into the show anyway but it was interesting because like people were living in the graveyard and um For some stupid reason Chris, I got into my head Um, that it would be good to quote Duran Duran lines from songs When I was doing this piece to camera. So I was like See if you look around if you look now all around there's no sign of life You know that song You know, there's no sign And first I've got it into Yeah, I just got it into my fucking head Chris. I was like, I think I was so exhausted 90 days of filming We've been like like 40 50 flights now I think it's about 30 40 flights in 90 days just exhausted not sleeping making really bad decisions Like thinking I'm going to do some pieces to camera about something You know, you just kind of kind of switch off and it all goes a bit dark and I thought right I just started dropping lines from Duran Duran everywhere I was going and thankfully Albeit Duran Duran is a very brilliant band from Birmingham. I think um, they edited all all that out Chris um So, uh, you do start you you do you do when you know when you get into it you kind of Yeah, so it's uh at the time you're thinking what you mean? Well, you it's funny It's it's brilliant And it's but well, you're the only one that thinks that and that it hurts doesn't it chris? It's only you've been a knob You won't know this but it it sounds like one of the stupid things that you do when you're on a cocaine binge Right and you think that this Dialogue you come out with is so fucking fun and then like You look around and like no no no one's just getting what the fuck you Then you have to wake up in a world of cringe like oh god God, I I thought I was being so witty and Yeah cutting edge and you know, like oh god Yes Well, yes back to your back to your answer though chris. Yeah, it's your question. You're absolutely right. It's uh, You know, it's kind of it's subtle destroying at first Especially if you come from that very black and white world where it's one or the other So you have to learn to take criticism, but you also got a filter out the nonsense and keep keep to your vision as well Yeah But be open to to you know, but be open to being wrong, you know I think for me it works the other way quite a lot because My producer tells me what I do what I do well Yeah, not that I don't like me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know for people listen I don't need adoration or to be told. I mean it's nothing about that It's about you know trying to get the best show possible and what some things are going to work Some things are not you're always going to piss someone off But ideally you want to piss off the most minimum people you you know, you want to try to Appeal to the people you want to appeal to and not not hack them off, right? So my um producers is like of course your podcasts are just really good and I'm like really? Oh, okay. Um, I just struggled through them to be I feel like I struggled through a lot of them not not Which means I thought you were enjoying this conversation chris May I offend you? How dare you? It was the dick thing. It's just That's it's rude in it Oh, that's like this dick on a sunday Chats like this I absolutely love but sometimes you you you chat to someone and and Like you're just not like on each other's wavelength Yeah, it happens quite a lot with People that are used to being a bit, you know hoity-toity in their past or you know They're very well educated and they they don't get the social cues of jokes like a like a working class person You know Like the dick thing they'd be like Oh Okay, yeah You just killed that that was supposed to be funny and you've just killed it And now I'm sat here feeling stupid try and then I've got a response from it with something that you know I've got to rescue this situation and Some people they just you just don't like I know if I stop talking you'll start talking and you'll say something fascinating Some people you stop talking and they go Like that that was your cue Say something say something Yeah, that was your cue. So like I really get it. I I and I there's so much You know this I I did a I think a two and a half hour podcast with a guy called Denny Denholm another fellow marine Or a fellow marine, I should say and it was because he's just About to publish a book And he wanted my advice on it, you know, what what how do you start a publishing company? What what the da da da? and You know, I'm we had a two and a half hour conversation and it's just stuff. He's never heard before You know just silly the silly little nuances of being involved in the art world You know And and why some things will work Why others won't why some methods of distribution are good for certain things, but they're going to fall down, you know It's like yes, everyone can release a kindle book. He's not difficult. You could do it in 30 minutes if you really Doesn't mean it's a you're going to be good or b anyone's going to read it Right, you know What what what do you want from you know, I'll say to someone what do you want from your right and you want to sell books? You know, do you want people to read it or do you just want the cue to also say yeah, I'm a published author and having something So, yeah fascinating It's the similar lines I could draw with a martial arts quiz, you know because We have guys who like I I teach martial arts online And we have some guys who've been doing martial arts for a long time They come to us and they want to learn our style of doing things. So for example, it's like tai chi Right, so I've got a tai chi franchise at the moment So people have been doing martial arts for a while can come and learn with me Beginners can come and learn with me or people have been doing it for a while And what you find quite often is when somebody goes out to start teaching Um when they first come out teaching same as They first write their book or they get published or or they go to publish something They think that the world is going to come to them So they're good people but they just haven't been through the process before And so they think that well as soon as you open your doors to teach you or you publish your first book That you're going to get customers coming through the doors just because of Who you are and you know your stuff and you know, you you know your content very well But it doesn't work that way in the same way as martial arts Like our guys need to go out and actually build the business as well It's not just about opening your doors and you know, it was at Kevin Costnerfield build it and they shall come It's not some it doesn't work that way You got to understand the business you got to understand the marketing can I just correct you there just a silly little point I did a video the other day on the the Mandela effect right, it's It's basically loose or it's related to false men false group memory syndrome where groups remember things that aren't as aren't as they were so a whole group a whole swathe of society will remember that Darth Vader said Luke I'm your father right everyone will tell you and it wasn't it was well This is where it all becomes a bit debatable It was no I'm your father right that's that that's the line that is in the film if you were to go and buy it tomorrow right The question we were posing in my chat the other day is is this some sort of like Deep state cia sigh up because some things have clearly been changed Like for example, the bodybuilder Franco Colombo who everyone knew as Franco Colombo if you lived in the 80s He was Arnold's best friend. Was he the Hulk? Uh, that's Louis Fringo, right? Okay, another Italian-American or a tier I think I think Franco was a friend of alien Whereas Louis was Italian-American Um, but no Franco Colombo bones name Is now been changed to columbu right with no explanation Right and my I'm trying to say to people look it's it's like flat earth theory It's a sigh up. They they want you to get in this rabbit wormhole that's so far away from the real shit We should all be you know asking about yeah, but you just said then um If you build it they will come would you be surprised if I told you that's not the line in the film? Oh my god, are you serious? Yeah the line that is the line that if you'd ask me What does he say in films kevin costner? I'd go well if you build it they will come, you know He's talking about a being The old school basketball, uh baseball players, right? No, that's it. He says if you build it he will come No, really? He will come he being the 60s or 50s baseball star that kevin costner has got a bit of a Sort of man crush on isn't he or or is it was it bad or something? Um, yeah, yes, if you build it he will come Geez the same as um Mama always said life was lack of but life was lack of box of chocolates You never really know what you're going to get Is that the green model? That was for his gum Okay, whereas the line people think he said is Mama always said life is lack of box of chocolate He doesn't say is he says was it's just it's just one of those things some of them are just genuine Folks memories like some people think there was only four people in the JFK car But there wasn't there was six. That's just part of history. There was six There was the senator sat in front of him or something, right? Um, so that is a genuine group false memory the same as people that think Nelson Mandela died in prison again group false memory Um Say again Who thinks that I've never heard that that Nelson Mandela died in prison, of course It's called the Mandela effect because when Mandela actually died, which was Yeah, 2000 and some things Yeah, having been president of South Africa, right? We all know he was president of South Africa Yeah, um People just started coming out of the woodwork and going he can't be dead. He died in prison well We we know he didn't die in prison because he was president of South Africa after he got out of prison, but a lot of people But we're talking hundreds of thousands if not millions think he died in prison. It's cool That was what it's called the Mandela effect Okay, I didn't know that's bizarre and because stuff really is changing like for example in America it's that there was a cartoon called the The Berestine Bears right the Berenstein, which is a Norwegian surname I'm guessing or or Danish or something, right? It's now changed to the the Berenstein stain AIN is that right and and everyone's like now is the bears Berenstein bears and we grew up with right so Some of it is um, I I think there's uh Shenanigans going on. I think it's person things have like Franco. It's Franco Colombo. It just was His name if you go and look at the old Voters on the internet is Franco Colombo in the you know in in old videos. It's Franco Colombo It was Wikipedia. They've changed it to Colombo Even Arnold Schwarzenegger calls him Franco Colombo. He never says Franco Colombo. It doesn't it's not even Italian I don't even think it's an Italian sir It sounds more Spanish if it's with a U, don't it? Yeah Or something like that. Here's his one for you actually. I've just remembered Chris Cheese and onion crisps when you're a kid kid green or blue You're asking someone who knows the answer to that because I okay. I thought I suspected you might know that I was it's a common one, isn't it? I was always salt and vinegar Yeah, salt and vinegar was always blue, right? No, it's cheese and onion is blue There you go. That's it. Everyone says the salt and vinegar was blue the salt and vinegar. I think it's onions blue now Yeah, green now. It's cheese onion. It's blue now. Yeah I think it always was but it's one of those false memories because I got caught out with it the other day They're blue. I am aware That there was a time in my life where I looked at them and went they changed the color I am aware of that. So they did change. Yes, they did change whether they've changed back again Frightening isn't it? Yeah, something's going on Chris Yeah, I mean there's loads of other I mean for example sex in the city Surely Um, what's it called? It was All right, let's take another one It was interview with a vampire, right? That was the name of this film or was it a series? It was interview with Tom Cruise. Yeah, if you look for that now, it's interview with the vampire Oh, is it? Yeah, and you you won't be you'll be hard. You will find references with a vampire But sometimes they're like second hand ones where someone else has called it that because they thought it was that but Right Like the girl in Jor's dolly when when not Jor's moon raker And the enemy character Jor's the guy with the metal teeth. He's crashed in the Lift station of the cable car and he's all covered in stuff and the girl that helps him like dust himself down There's this iconic scene where she She smiles at him And he goes Yeah, what were you what were you gonna say? I was gonna say doesn't he smile back and then you can just see all his metal teeth. Is that right? Yeah Originally she smiles and she's got these braces on her teeth. That's right. Yeah, and he smiles because oh I found somebody like me. I've got metal teeth, right? That was that was the whole thing now She hasn't got braces on her teeth Well, anyone listen just google it. She hasn't right the question is Did she ever did people get a folks memory because years later there was an advert where a girl Did have braces on her teeth and smiles at Jor's right and there was an advert about it It was a credit credit card advert. I think like at american express or something, right? Um, is it that people have seen that and then automatically remembered the original wrong. Do you see what i'm saying? Yeah, yeah, they all start merging don't they after after a long time they all start merging together. Yeah, I remember False past is all false Yeah, I I I realized when I was writing my memoirs that things that I have thought could have sworn happened on a certain date They didn't look weren't even you know, I saw this guy said this to me because of this and when I've checked the calendar He can't have been saying that to me because it was six months before Yeah, oh my god, I could have sworn right Just the way it is Chris to finish off yes, mate what Um Before and obviously i'm gonna ask you to promote anything that you you you want before we go But before I ask you to do that what message are we given to young people about the martial arts? What? What time? Yeah, um, my message is probably not Probably not make mainstream. It's probably slightly off mainstream. I am a big fan of traditional martial arts um I'm not I'm not a huge fan and I know this is rather an un fashionable position. I'm not a huge fan of uh fighting for the sake of fighting I I feel that um martial arts is best for young people when The end goal is not beating somebody else up I feel the the the end result should be an improvement in your life Uh an improvement in the people in the lives of the people around you. So I what I'm saying is I think that traditional martial arts can offer self-defense it can offer health and it should although it doesn't always include philosophical Training as well martial arts historically has always been that the philosophy goes hand in hand with the fighting skills And I know mate, you know, it's not lost on me that um, a lot of traditional schools aren't perhaps as good at fighting as modern schools So we're talking about stuff like MMA schools and boxing So I say I say to people do do that, you know, do do that for the physical aspect, but don't You know look down on and don't ignore the The beautiful culture that martial arts has to offer And it is life changing mate. It really is it's not just Like I know boxing can be and I know MMA can be but I mean for me like looking back I was a kid on the cancer state in in in in Birmingham Immigrant parents from a broken home dyslexic learning difficulties And you know, I've I've done much better for myself than I would have had I not been involved in martial arts that in hand in hand Taught me how to think as well as how to act So, um, you know, I don't think it's all about fighting. I would love to say to people, you know like I went back on about this for a long time Chris, but people often ask me like Oh, do you think I should do this martial art or that martial art? Well, isn't this much better and it's much quicker. You can handle on yourself Well, yeah, but I think to myself. Well, I wouldn't put my son in that my eldest son is 14 now He's been training with me for a long time, but I wouldn't want him to go into a ring and Beat people up and be beaten up for what for what I wouldn't put my son in there So I don't want to put other kids in there as well What I want to say is martial art doesn't have to be we got it wrong It doesn't just have to be about fighting So much more to it discipline respect, you know for yourself for other people for elders Um, uh Confidence may you know, that's that's a really good word Chris confidence like inner Discipline and confidence and peace that you get from it. It might take a bit longer But I think the benefits are more You know, so I say don't dismiss traditional martial arts because they've been going for thousands of years And yes, it is quicker to learn something else. You can handle yourself in three months But you can still you can still get that with the tradition as well Um, but you get other stuff as well. That's what takes longer self-discipline self-respect, you know Like focus the ability to try and like overcome difficult things in your own life And because we all get knocks don't we sooner or later, Chris? We're all going to get But like life throws us curveballs in it, you know And uh, just that ability to Pick yourself back up again. I think it's really important. So and that's what I Just talking about what I'm promoting and what I'm doing at the moment is I'm teaching people online People come straight with me online kung fu traditional kung fu or in tai chi Um, and we have a number of clubs now people going out and teaching and reaching communities and especially in this This time frame. It's a really important thing to do and we I know we're changing a lot of lives, Chris It's really good. Really good. I'm very happy with it What's what's the sort of cost if someone wants to come to you for lessons? It's not expensive mate if they could it's not expensive. I keep the prices very available So my club where if they want to come and train with me and my club's quite small Their cost is something like seven pound a lesson or something seven eight pound might be like eight eight pound a lesson Something like that and if they want to train in one of the franchise clubs mate. It's a fiver It's nothing, you know So that's how we operate and Yeah, and how does how does a person teach kung fu over the internet It's almost it's really difficult to be honest with you. It took a lot of work I spent probably six months working out the syllabus just the syllabus So we drill up and down so we have like in a class that maybe not a lot like in my class maybe 10 or 15 people something like that not a lot Sometimes less sometimes a little bit more And I teach them right break down the moves So they break down the moves they'll do the move then I'll observe each one of them And I give them a syllabus as well. I say right this month. You've got to learn these and I'll teach them the techniques I practice with them online twice twice a week or three times a week They go away and practice it on their own and then I review it and I look at them every three months We put them through a little test to make sure they've got that block of syllabus done There's a drilling um, there's a lot of kind of like So you you like it's drilling man like martial arts is drilling you don't it's good to have a it's not It's not good to dive in and start Sparring with people hitting people that's one aspect of martial arts But to drill first you drill it so it's second nature So you don't have to think because if you have to think When when you're in in a conflict or a confrontation You're one second behind the guy who's already started to launch the attack. It's a loose lose It's got to be drilled. So I I still drill now man. I've been doing it for what 35 years or something I drill myself still not every day, but every week a couple of times a week I'll just drill up and down up and down up and down doing a certain technique over and over and over again Because it's the drilling Right and then later they're putting in practice that actually makes the stuff work If you haven't done it and it's not second nature, it's got to be a reaction It's got to be like that my first teacher said back in the day when we didn't have computers He said it's like a typewriter. You hit the return key on the typewriter and he goes It comes back straight away. So it's like so stimulus Uh result stimulus result. It's not a thinking process So yeah, that's that's how we do it. So we drill a lot online And it's working really well my students are but believe it or not dare dare I say it right because I used to just teach one weekend a month They'd come to me for eight because they were from all over the country weren't they so Like you couldn't do it like three times a week when before it was online So they'd come down and we'd train for one weekend a month and then to go out doing homework But it'd be like eight hours a day eight hours on saturday eight hours on sunday So it's quite intense But then they go back up in some of them in scotland. So it's a long old way. We can't travel all the time And dare I say it like since we've gone online. I rejected it all my life. I was like it's nonsense. It's terrible You can't do this. It's not traditional Since I did it because my students some of them were like struggling You know the the recent events that have happened and that and they're like emotionally Some of them were struggling not been able to train not be able to go out So I made the change I went online started teaching them And dare I say it I think that I think they're better than I don't think like they're better Getting better than they were when they were and I think it's just that little and often like it's little and often three times a week It's an hour a class or wherever it is. It's not it's not overly intense Teachings taken pace by pace We break it down, you know and just get it right, you know and really spend the time getting it right Do the same with the tai chi with the tai chi We just do like there's 24 moves in the system that we teach yang style tai chi 24 moves I do one move per month and we just Just do it. We just break it all down every little movement a single whip. Okay. Well, this is like picking a petition pick a petition Yeah, yeah press like pressing simple very very simple um Tai chi is this like getting in touch with the universal energy that I'm always talking about Yeah, mate totally tai chi is massive. I think it's it's brilliant It's basically chris what it is, you know, you've got meditation or you've got meditation Which is seated position and then the ancient people worked out that You can also meditate when they're doing the martial arts. You can also meditate during martial arts And although tai chi is actually only like a couple of hundred years old the form that we practice now It's origins of thousands of years old So the ancients worked out you can get in that state of mind by doing martial arts So they slowed it right down and they teach meditation in movement. So The idea because I won't As I say, I I tend to waffle so I won't go on too much But there's like a four stage process that I teach we we teach first of all meditation seated, right? Because we all know how to do that you get a grip of your mind Right, you start observing the mind when it's like thoughts about the future like worries about the future You say, oh, I'm in a thought I'm thinking about the shopping or I'm thinking about I've got to do this or that bill or the other you go, right, okay I'm in a thought right bring it back to the center to your breathing So just breathe breathe breathe and then your mind starts wondering off to the past. I wish I didn't do that I've done that. I'm sad about this like And so you go, I'm in a thought again. So you bring it back to the center, right? So that's seated meditation like anchoring people in the present And that helps you undermine the fears of the future and the sadness of the past So you can start to direct your mind in a way you can't control it because you can't control your mind That's nonsense. You just direct it, right? So it starts to become still then you start to like have more understanding about yourself and insights into yourself and other people But then the ancients worked out that you can also Another benefit is if you start if you can hold that mindset once you've learned it in in movement as well Well, then It has a more perfect a more even more profound effect is like Rubbing your head and patting your belly once you get the hang of it. You get more control of your body. So you get more ability to direct your mind away from the things you don't want it to be thinking about and more like freedom in your mind And finally the big goal is to try and be Is to try and be still Mentally still in conflict or confrontation so that you you you know yourself like if you if Like conflict and confrontation for all of us adrenaline You know, it's a scary fucking place. It's tunnel vision all that stuff um, but If you can try and be more still and calm in confrontation Then it has an even bigger benefit on your life and your ability to not get dragged into the circus of that confrontation And lose your mind and be controlled by the other party So the idea is seated meditation bring it into a still movement and then bring it into uh combat You know, it's it's it's a it's a gentle practice Of the idea of combat and eventually you start to be able to train your mind to be more still In other areas of your life, and I apologize if I've spoken too much there, mate Oh, no, this is the good stuff, mate. You just summed it up. I mean For people who haven't been on the journey by journey. I mean the journey of learning in life Yeah, they probably like what the hell are these two old farts talking about right? But no, I mean just a simple fact when you're fighting And by fighting I mean exercising, you know competition of someone you like do you want to be thinking about the shopping You want to be thinking about oh, I've got to pick the kids up. You want to be thinking about God You know, does my does my bum look big in you don't want that you want to be pure of mind Focused in the moment with nothing coming into your mind other than this guy's going to be moving towards me His body's going to be trying to hurt me and I need to Just You know work just I need to be free to deal with what's coming and not be clustered with all this other Yeah, I mean it's perfect. You start sitting you you find your peace the thoughts are coming in you just let them go out You focus on that void That beautiful Moment of connection with the universe where you are the universe the universe is you and nothing else matters And then you move it up into action Where you're still keeping that single focus now your opponent's coming you you don't even I don't know if you even need to think about them per se Although I guess it helps to know you don't that's where the drill's coming. So the drilling then takes care of itself Yeah, you yeah, you keep an open you keep an empty mind and the thing is that we often say like when you're fighting you You if there's if you've got one opponent in front of you You ain't fighting one opponent you're fighting two because you've got your negative mind as well Your mind's going freaking out. He's massive. It's gonna bat on me. Oh, I'm gonna be embarrassed Fuck I'm gonna look terrible when I get my nose broken and he's gonna kick the shit out of me You've got all that going on in your mind. So you've got still that stuff And honestly control doesn't fucking work. You can't control that stuff But what you can do is over years of practice You can learn to say, oh, that's just a thought And you out of your mind and you're gone and you're back into the void back into the emptiness And you're just observing purely And then react into the situation in a way that will give you a more positive outcome There's likely to give you a more positive outcome So um and everything mate, you'll know you might get a hater on the podcast Some guy goes your podcast your shit. I fucking hate it You don't know what you're talking about and you get a reaction an emotional reaction. You're like, oh Well, you With meditation and tai chi and all the rest of it that goes with it You're able to look at it and you go, oh, that was an interesting impact. It's not real though yeah gone That's that's the that's the bigger goal because you'll have conflict in life You'll have struggles you'll have arguments you'll have disagreements you love, you know All sorts of things and it goes back to what I first said that master that taught me in hong kong is the leaf You're not being blown left and right by the leaf On your way down you just go in in the direction that you go in there you go There's some synchronicity for you Chris where can people watch your Your series are they available at streaming or are they dvd how? I don't know to be honest with you. Um, I think you could probably get it for free on on uh on youtube now Uh, I think most of the stuff is probably out there. Uh, the first series is my buddy kick ass moves second was miracles Then we did something called crudely in crime for the bbc Uh, I went out to china and I directed a couple shows out there as well, which are floating around somewhere We did some canadian stuff in brazil and in In africa as well for for a channel out there. Well, and so he's floating around mate, you know, you're floating around. Yeah Yeah, it's still floating around. I couldn't see anywhere if you've written a book or not Yeah, yeah, I did a I did a I think it was 2000 Might have been eight. It was a long time ago now. Um, I wrote an encyclopedia for decay, which is part of penguin Yeah, and I like I did deep deep research. Basically. It's about 300 arts and codified them It's a it's a lovely book And you can get from the library. You don't need to buy it. Um, most libraries have it now I'll put a link below the podcast folks if you do want to buy it. And I yeah, yeah Be available on amazon, I guess or wherever It's not I think you might kind of have print now, but they're still floating around. Um, It's called the way of the warrior And it's I tell you I do I am quite proud of it because I think I've what I've done is I've kind of simplified like You 300 different arts. It's not confusing. It's a coffee table book. There's loads of beautiful photography in it It's like very visual. It's like visual anthropology You know of the fighting arts from around the world It's a good. It's a good. It's a good book to look at and of course if people want to come and and Join our club they can get in touch with me. My email is chrisacrudelli.com That's c i u d l l i dot com. If you look at the website, that's my surname crudely.com And the franchises that I am involved with are Tai Chi 24 dot club so they can go on there And kung fu 36.com With the numerical like three six or the two four And all the information's out there, man It's you know, I'd say getting it's life changing stuff and we do what we do. We do well We do it friendly. We're supportive and You know, we're there. We're there to serve man. We're really there to serve, you know So, you know, that's that's that's what we're about all the links you mention We'll put them in the description friends So have a look if you want to get in touch with chris and I strongly recommend you do um I was playing I wasn't playing I was I did a video on call of duty yesterday because I've been asked to do it for So long now and I've been procrastinating and I can't help feeling yeah, it's it's fun playing call of duty, you know You get to shoot people without any consequences if that's fun. I'm I I don't know what I'm I'm I'd be like water. Just be like water people fun is not fun is very great. It doesn't really matter. It's It all roads lead to Rome, but But I think what I would say is what I said to you before the podcast chris is look when I look back at on my deathbed Or probably already looking back now. It's I really wish I'd mastered a martial art, you know I Wish I'd mastered an instrument and I wish I'd mastered a language Better than I have I've spoken lots of languages. I've played Guitar and and piano and I thoroughly enjoyed all of it and and I've I've done a my year of judo and um one bout of boxing which was enough and my Kind of foray into my self-taught kung fu whilst I was in Hong Kong and I've enjoyed all of that but I can't help thinking, you know, maybe put the xbox down a bit and actually go and do one of chris's classes and It's not too late. We'd welcome your mate and you you I say master But you'd have the whole tai chi down in 24 months. There's 24 blocks one block a month It's a great community. They're really cool people. You'd like a lot of them and Yeah, just come along chris. It'd be really cool to try our class and let us know what you think about it You know, is it just the tai chi you do? Do you do the martial arts over? So I teach two things. I teach one class like on a monday and a wednesday every week I'm teaching tai chi and I teach a separate class of kung fu as well So I teach kung fu first It's like six to seven o'clock and tai chi's like seven to eight roughly And you know what? We've got people from all over the world joining in as well We've got people from sweden france us. We've got people in new york and on the on the other coast as well in california So it's a really good community of people who who are you know, intelligent people who like martial arts and want to learn and advance themselves So, yeah Yeah, I'd definitely be up for that. I'd like to do one of each if that's okay Of course, man, and that's join us. Come on monday chris. Do not do anything on monday Okay, if I'm if I'm free it might Might actually be in in a couple of weeks time because I've just got massive amount all at the minute but Um essentially I'm gonna write I'm gonna write this down book of class because then I can I can talk about that in a video for my experience. What did I get? Awesome. Awesome bruce lee, right When I was in that bodybuilding gym in hong kong When bruce lee came on the tally as it was but we didn't have screens back then. We had televisions Yeah, bruce lee came on on the national news or you know some some item about item about him in the media Everybody in the gym just put down their weights and stared at this iconic Legend of a man on the screen What what can you tell us about bruce lee, mate? Oh, I'm a massive fan of bruce lee like absolute legend when I um He uh, he was a guy who um, I think like I think the two things two massive things that he did Were first of all like breaking into film, right as an asian man breaking into hollywood In the 70s I mean, it's how many asian leads, you know now even now, you know, 2020 So he was a dynamo an absolute force of nature, right? So kung fu aside So what he did for asian people Was was was incredible and I think I think the figures are still to this day. He's um His last film the end to the end to the dragon is still like pound or dollar for dollar The highest grossing film in terms of what they've put in and what they've got out So, um, it shows martial arts can make Huge amounts of money in the box office if it's done well and it shows that You know the leads the lead actors in western films don't always have to be the blonde hair blue eye Eyed boys, you you know, you can't there is diversity will sell You know, if somebody's got charisma, they've got charisma. Don't matter what color they are Um, so I think that was I think that was massive, right? And all of that came out of his martial arts, didn't it chris? He was um, like in terms of his martial arts he was a guy who um broke away with tradition And he started taking the best bits of what he could find at the time and integrating them You could say he was the father of mixed martial arts It wouldn't be a leap to say that mate because he was incorporating bits of judo throwing techniques He's like well kung fu stand-up game from hong kong hasn't got any groundwork. So let's take a bit of that Let's take a bit of this um I was just at his house last year Um, and and that was like massive for me. So I my wife is american and we went over to um To see her family. She's actually down in itself, but we were over in california. I mean we landed in san francisco Uh, so we went and did all that thing and then when we left We had about a day left in san francisco So we went up to his old house in oakland the place where he first started teaching Martial arts in america incredible mate. It was one of his mate's houses And here's the thing he'd already done a few films by this stage Now oakland it's expensive now, but it's not it's a it's a slightly downtrodden neighborhood in many ways It's out of town, you know, it's like probably about half an hour out of town So it's in the suburbs And he it looked to me from looking at the structure of the house like he was actually Renting the top part of the house because you can see like a separate sideway Entrance up and that's been there for a long time if you look at the old voters as well. So He was so dedicated to his art right He's top of his game in terms of his martial arts top of his game in terms of he'd made films He'd already made films at that stage And yet he was renting a roof section of his mate's house in a suburb Of outside of san francisco. So he'd compromised an awful lot to keep Focusing on his art and his film work Um, because you know as yourself like when you're a dad you want to do that You want to settle down a bit you want to do the best you can for your family And if you're still running around chasing a dream, it's kind of quite hard So, um on all of all of his family would have been really hard um So, yeah, it was just inspiring to see that house and to actually And I took some of the I looked at some of the old photos you can find them on google I've been standing outside the house and you know clinton carifornia And you're just like that's it. Wow. They haven't painted that wall. Well, they changed the garage door But you can you can work out, you know, you can see this stuff in a young bruce lee In the first place that he taught. So yeah, just um, I'm a huge huge fan Met some of his students, you know Chris, I met some of his students. Yeah. Yeah, so I got an award a couple of years ago and richard bastilla was there Handing out awards. He was one of bruce lee's students. He was just before he died actually And Incredible man, and he had some wonderful stories and still, you know, I don't know how old he was. He must have been in the 80s chris. He was still doing martial arts and Still had really fond war memories of of that time that he trained with bruce lee Yes, I guess um His impact was in the states, wasn't it? I mean initially which then spread globally And I suppose up until then the perception That people in the usa had of Asians or chinese or hong kong chinese in particular was in a very certain way, wasn't it? They would have been I mean Hollywood has always portrayed them as like coollies, you know, the working on the railways and which which They they obviously did in history then he had the kind of The charlie chan the kind of wise wizened old detective kind of image um Women were always a bit dark and mysterious and Sultry if that I don't know if that's the right word and then And then of course from a business perspective very Roofless in business or very focused rather very, you know, the family restaurant that everyone's employed everyone's involved It's this kind of thing We've got a guest How are you? Doing great. How are you doing? Yes, absolutely super having a an amazing chat with your husband. It's been thoroughly enjoyable Oh, yeah that map your map on the back of your hat. We've got one of those that is incredible Your background is really incredible chris. Yeah, this is a really nice map. It's it's canvas Yeah, it's one that rolls up. It's got the If you can see it. Oh, yeah wooden base, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome And it's Yes, nice to see you Bye Thanks Yeah So, well, yeah, what was I saying? So they had this kind of stereotypical perception of um I think they call it orientalism when you when you stereotype people from the east in a certain Hollywood textbook You know often a villain type capacity And then of course bruce lee came along and he's this young cool dude Who's very very handsome You know, particularly handsome for it for it In in in in the way it transferred from being chinese into america. He's got this ripped body that just Looks like he you know Yeah, I'm the right person a tone to perfection Yeah, um everything that came out his mouth was just so simple and yet so wise And of course he's a bloody ninja at the old kung fu Yeah, he he he must have changed. I mean he made I mean he made being chinese cool, didn't he He did mate. He totally did in a time period where you know the powers that be were not that way inclined In fact, I'll tell you a story, you know, even recently my wife's cousin Bought a property in in in Mexico in Albuquerque in america And I think there was something on the land contract that said no chinese That lands by it. It's obviously an antiquated law, but they hadn't they hadn't got up to date to get rid of it It was still on the contract and you're thinking Like what how can this be possible? So Like yeah in in the psyche of of the western people It wasn't cool to be chinese and bruce made it very cool And he was very chinese wasn't he you know, he he sprouted off the philosophy. He did the kung fu He was a badass. He took no prisoners um For a lot of kids around that time He's a I mean he is an icon, but but he was also he was like a guy who said, you know You don't have to live in the normal way man. There's another way to be You know, you can get involved in this cool philosophy get involved in these cool arts You could be a man, you know and uh, yeah Resonated I think and it still does now like 50 years after his death, you know Yes There's so much mystery surrounding isn't it there's been some I don't know how true they are But there's been some really good documentaries that have been out some Had these kind of things like the last 24 hours of so and so is life. I think they did one of those on bruce lee and There was a lot going on behind the scenes wasn't there that we we didn't as the public Didn't really understand so there was I don't know if i'm tarnishing his His what's the word his um legacy but reputation You know, I think there was a bit of infidelity going on there. I think there was alleged alleged A bit of wacky backy chucked in the mix which um I think he started smoking when he he had disc problems. Didn't he had very severe spinal problems Yeah, he put his spine out as a disc problems as a lot of people have uh in the martial arts Um, and I think it was popular as well at the time, wasn't it the wacky backy and all the rest of it I think I think I don't know if i'm wrong here, but I think they found that in the toxicology board That from someone in my background, there's not a judgment call whatsoever. What I meant What I meant is it was a bit shocking for people that held him as this absolute idol that this guy's perfect To subsequently learn. No, we're all human unfortunately. Well, fortunately. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's good And it for me it becomes interesting going back to our conversation about what his art is You then start to see ah Ah, he had a stuntman for doing that backflips Because he'd broken his back right, you know, he had a busted back. I get it now And then your mind starts to think I wonder how much of the film work was, you know, it was essentially stunt work You know, it's all choreographed. Yeah, all the fight scenes they wouldn't stand up in real life. They're just It's just, uh, you know dramatic stuff for tv and I don't I he wouldn't afford that way either in real life You know, he's he's fighting art that he developed you can do is very it's not, you know It's not it's not filmic. It's very direct. It's called the way of the intercepting fist for a reason It's very direct. It's very quick. It's based on Essentially like he's Hong Kong Wing Chun style at the time which is very close quarter fighting And uh, he added in bits and bobs from other other stuff as well. It wasn't dramatic It wasn't You know, it didn't flail around and look wonderful. It was just about stopping people in their tracks, you know Yes Sorry, I'm just my my focus wandered there mate because we've got someone trying to get into our waiting room And I'll tell you what if you turn up in our zoom call without an invite The way of the intercepting fist max whoever you are max Yeah, be gone be gone This is the trouble when you use the same zoom number for for the different meetings. Yes. Um Oh, I better just actually check that I haven't booked Book someone in and completely forgotten about it wouldn't be the uh Oh, right. Okay. No, we're not there yet. So it's my next meeting has come an hour early and that's because they're they're um They're europeans I'm just gonna I'm gonna ask you a question and I've got to just tell this guy stop trying to get in our meeting where you're an hour early I forgot I forgot they're in europe. It's my It's my documentary team where we're making a documentary at the moment or we're at least putting the plans together um So yes, so you had all of this kind of intrigue around his life. What about the um, You know without compromising yourself chris um Because I know you're a man that obviously knows lots of people in different places, but What about this route? There was a rumor he'd upset the triads which was by teaching the west You know the secret art of kung fu was was there any truth in that? Um, I think it's one of those things again Like where there's some truth in it that's got mixed up historically over the sort of course of our You know our group memory if you're like there's a couple of things going on There's questions as to whether he was involved in In in in any triad activity as a year before he left hong kong and that some people rumor that um In fact, his dad sent him to go study in america because he was getting into a lot of trouble He was an energetic lad, you know, and he loved kung fu when he was out there And he wasn't afraid to tell people if you thought they were wrong Um, which is one of the amazing qualities about his you know, he's he's courage really as a human being In you know, um, so there's there's that there's that question Um, and then I suppose the other thing that we're talking about is when he started teaching westerners out in san francisco um What exactly happened around the um the the china town people? I don't know whether they were or weren't members of organized crime. I'm not sure wouldn't surprise me if they were They tend to look after each other and band together in especially in overseas cities and china towns They could the tongs in america aren't they Yeah, as a lot of communities have the italians have done exactly the same as well You know, they've bought some of their cultures and some of their like associations originally To when they've emigrated to different cities as well So there's the question of first of all were they or weren't they? That's that's still open-ended question. I think but there was certainly, um, he experienced a lot of um Pressure from from chinese groups and martial arts masters at the time who didn't want to share the arts with westerners Um, and um, I I think like again historically, there's there's probably reasons for that Um, and he just flew in the face and he said no no me. I'm doing what I want. This is what I believe in Uh, there's no difference between any People don't matter if they're white black asian whatever they're all people and I'm not gonna view them any in any other way You got to remember though one thing. I think bruce had some I think it was maybe his grandfather or something was Maybe german or his grandmother or something. He had some he had some european blood Um, and I suppose that may have influenced him as well to be more open-minded But he was just like look i'm a martial arts master. I'm gonna do what I want to do and You know, uh, that resulted in him having some fights. Um, which isn't particularly uncommon In martial arts circles, um, it's how people they're martial artists. They like they fight. That's what they do, you know Um, and sometimes things are sorted out that way if they can't be sorted out otherwise So yeah, you have that to to to deal with didn't they In the uh, was it like since the early 70s or whatever it was? Is there any truth chris in the um In the the story that when they were filming I think was it enter the dragon was in that big famous house in hong kong with the big Grounds like I think they probably would have been tennis court grounds But they co-opted the co-opted them into the film as the Training ground on this secret island or whatever it was um And I heard a rumor that I saw in a documentary that because all the extras in the hollywood film industry have traditionally been um triads The triads traditionally running the movie industry in hong kong, which isn't a secret anybody um That that a lot of the extras in that end to the dragon were Ganks is basically, you know in in the brotherhood And every time they had a break One of them would want to like try his luck with bruce lee just to say, you know I can have you right and so He bruce lee would just say Okay, come on Let's see what you got So I've been doing so Yeah, and I can see that you've been working on the accents. Yeah, I've really been enjoying impressions. No. Yeah. I've really been enjoying doing impression I don't know why I think so mate. Yeah, I've heard I've heard those things as well That he was challenged on the set a couple times and just just kicked ass I mean, you know, that's what he did best on it really He was incredibly fast. He was kind of lightning fast Well, you have to be If you're that small and light It's like you say you've got to hit With the fest. I mean, you're not going to grapple someone to the ground. You're you're not going to Oh, you're right, mate. You've got to get in and out very quick. And that's what he was brilliant at doing Just getting in being very accurate like precision strikes Soft targets boom in and out gone. So yeah, I think I think I think I think yeah I mean people give you a lip don't they and you know, you're dealing with rough rough people. It happens I don't think any hard feelings were probably he's probably quite gracious about it. Just give him a couple of licks and then You know picked him back up shook their hand and dusted them off and back to work, you know And there was um one documentary watch to explain his death really well because there were lots of rumors around that um I can't I'll be honest. I can't remember what this summary was but It was an aneurysm. Basically he had a brain aneurysm Yeah, uh for an allergic reaction. They think to uh analgesic analgesic So like an aspirin or paracetamol, we call them in England. Yeah, so he he had a reaction to it And he had a brain bleed and that's what you were talking about. Um Was because he was found in another warden's bed um She was she was an actress that he's that he's working with and she was he was over there They say working on some script ideas. He had a headache. She gave him some pills He went to lie down in a bed. That's why he was found in a bed. Um You know, that's you know, she didn't it's what happened. He was hesitant to call the To call a doctor. I think because she knew he'd been smoking or something and and of course by the time the doctor did arrive on What's the message did she Yeah, I think she called the producer first. Didn't she was it raman chow? Who was I think head of golden um harvest studios? Yeah Yeah, I think with a lot of which is a bit of an unusual thing to do, isn't it? Yeah Well, it's just that substance use was so taboo back then. I mean it's taboo now but And then yeah, right You know, it's it's how many people have watched their friend die rather than just call a bloody ambulance, right because they're afraid of But some retribution some repercussions where in actual fact Ambulance crew you just want to know what's the post what's wrong with a person so they can save their life um, yeah But a bit like the michael jackson situation, wasn't it and also, um Diego maradona two people in there Who were still under so much pressure to perform and still sought the adoration of the crowd and both of whom both of whom actually Took amphetamines to try to get their careers back on the go So michael jackson was taking amphetamine To try to perform his dance routine as he had as a 21 year old But now he's 40 Diego maradona was the same he when he was banned from the world cup he tested positive for um Some form of amphetamine And it's It's sad, isn't it because something that you understand you know why these guys wanted to be up there. They you know that you they It's a bit like poor gas corn, isn't it? You know, they have this massive glory year or two then they get beset by an injury or something And through no fault their own they have to take this step back and they have some Down years and then they get the chance to get back on a horse again. And of course, you know, it's really tempting to want to you know Put the odds in your favor, right? Yeah, I completely, you know understand this thing and But I had a little bit similar thing with bruce that That you know, his body was failing him. I think because he was In his 30s when he died was it was he 40 yet? Yeah, I think he was 32 34 32 something like that. He was young It's very very young, but you know, you don't have a trained as well. I don't know Yeah, that doesn't he's so intense man. And it's like People say well the more training you do the better and as a younger man, you know yourself You're like you agree with that. You think oh, yeah, just go all day eight hours nine hours don't matter Whatever you got to do But you can't run a racehorse like that the racehorse will die Or it will you know, it will start malfunctioning. So I think I do think that it probably I think I personally think That he's his death was potentially caused by actually Overtrain by training too much. You know, he put himself into the wall wouldn't they did you know? No, it's a dynamic tension. So your whole body tense is up Your body goes really rigid, but it's like doing weight training, but on acid. It's like, you know, it's So I think he was a human being was a human dynamite. He had so much Power personal like energy that he had to find an outlet and He did incredible things in his short life. Had he lived longer? God only knows what what we would have seen from from a creative and intellectual a philosopher a writer a fighter You know, he had it he had it all going on film star movie star, you know His family were up his legacy Was upset and hence his family recently weren't they after that? That american movie that came out I've seen it. I can't was it once on a time in hollywood Quentin Tarantino Right. Okay. That one. Yeah, right. Okay. I can't understand that and The characters in it were all kind of caricatures of of hollywood legends or stars. So he had you I don't know was it brad Pitt was in it playing some like I don't even know. Let's just say robert redford type character or whatever Probably got it. That's right. And then bruce was there and the guy that played him was just A little bit left of sense, you know, he was a bit A bit zany. Hi. I'm boss Lee I thought you know be like water, right? And it was just It was just Yeah, it was cheesy and it was just take the piss out of him. Um, and then brad Pitt got to beat up brusley um I just I don't personally see it about I don't understand why you'd want why that's funny or why do you want to put that in the film I'm brusley fan obviously. I'm bias, but also I'm just like well really Would you do it to mike Tyson? 30 years later put mike Tyson in the film like accentuate his lisp and then have a Category hollywood star beat him up to look hard Yeah, it's um I don't know. I'm probably sort of person on a different day. I'd wake up with a different viewpoint on you It's that thing, isn't it? Yeah, that I don't try to be upset for this, you know Sure, when people say you choose to be offended, it's kind of like I don't know if I agree with that, you know I Some things are just very wrong You know Some things are very wrong and a lot of people in society just don't realize how wrong it is the Some of the language we use about people that struggle. It's just awful. Yeah, you know It's just awful and it's it goes back to The culture we're indoctrinated into to think that certain people are above other people And it and it happens a lot with disability or you know mental health and You know, you're seen as a lower class of person and the language You know the language rep and it doesn't just represent this in with some people but it You know What you say can keep People oppressed to keep people pinned in a way. It's why we don't use the n word anymore is like we're Civilized enough now to realize actually that word kind of like oppressed the rights of black people for for for hundreds You know hundreds of years or Or at least a couple of hundred hundred years and it's inappropriate, you know Um So the whole thing about you choose to be offended is Well, maybe you do but it's still some things Some things are not right. So I don't know. I guess as an artist. It's that It's that should there be like Censorship when his censorship just blatantly bloody disrespectful I mean Quentin Tarantino uses the n word in all all his films about 50 million times, doesn't he? Um, he would argue that's his right as a thing. I would say it's Dude, it's still horrible for a big part of our community to hear that bloody word that was used about them in slavery You can come up with arguments. Can't you either way? I'm sure he can as well Yeah, for the Bruce Lee thing. I thought it was a bit unnecessary. I like most of his films I think some of them go on a little bit long some of them a bit self-indulgent But um, it's generally brilliant filmmakers brilliant script writer. He's an amazing um He's an amazing artist today. Look at some of his early work pop fiction I just just showed my lap for that film the other day and it's like it's what 30 years old and it's still Doesn't miss a beat. It's an incredible film, you know, he's but yeah, I mean There is that other thing as well have been so artistic that you just end up right up your own arse, you know And you get lost in it all And that's the reality of it doesn't matter big you are, you know, it might be the biggest filmmaker in the world You can still get lost up your own arse Um, it can happen, you know, and we don't have to just respect somebody just because of their Status, do we just because he's right up there. We don't go. Oh, he's freaking amazing. Well, he is but some of the things man You know you have you found in your career um You've had to get on top of your ego Yeah, massively absolutely, mate um, yeah, just wrestle with it all the time because the thing the thing is people who I mean, you know people like like like us in in a way people who have a performance background or an artistic background You want to show people your stuff? Don't you that's what you want to do ultimately and people said to me when I first started working at the BBC They were like, oh, you know, oh, you know your presenters you all or your actors You all want to do this and you're all just trying to get adulation. I was like fuck off No, I'm not just doing it because I like it. But I think actually there's an element of truth in it somewhere down the line You do want to like Uh, you do want to perform A job that you're good at and you want people to say oh, that's that's good Like I think somewhere As much as I hate to admit it I think there is something inside me and probably all performers that says You want to do a good job something you're good at something you're happy with and you want people to pat you on the back So well done, you know, even though you kind of like I kind of rejected it and I didn't I didn't go out with a hat when the show first came out. I couldn't for years. I didn't I got really uncomfortable but um I think there is something about that. I think we do want to There is something that we need to wrestle with our ego and we need to come to terms with it And we need to you know as crap as it sounds you need to love ourselves a little bit more and find our own center um A bit more like an exercise I do with my students Chris. I tell them stand on one leg, right? They're all they're balanced. Yeah, balanced and I say like that close your eyes They close your eyes all over the shop. I say why is that? Why why can't you do that? And they say well, I can't see and I'm like right So you're orientating your balance based not on what you feel but what on on the exterior world You're basing your balance on what you see And that ain't right. We should base our center and our balance on what we feel Not what we see and orientate ourselves to the external world because as soon as you do that And it's going to throw you left right and center. You're never gonna you you can never you can never please it It's a big black hole in it Yes I think knowing what we know now and you look back at like the history of hollywood and stuff and and You know, he was difficult to work with and now we understand why don't we? It's because it's a lot of very damaged people come into The artistic industry to to get the adulation to and to express themselves like this is me No, yeah Yeah, some of the some of the world's most talented people bless them have been the most damaged and of course When you get that adulation you've got to Gotta keep it down a bit You know, especially in this day of social media Because the next thing, you know, you're putting a bloody instagram video out ranting and raving and you know Done it and it's like oh god That's your ego talking Yeah, so that's it just in How much to bruce lee there are i'm going to put this out as a little clip and um as I think his His wife said at the end of one of the great Documentaries that was made about him. She said I don't like to remember how Bruce Died I prefer to remember how he lived Okay Chris, what can I say? I've thoroughly enjoyed this chat Apologies folks if I've talked to you know a bit more than usual You know a bit more than usual, but this is why I started the podcast because I wanted to share Experiences with people like chris. It's just one. Yeah. Thank you, mate You know get to thank you so much for having me big fan great show and And it is what it says on the tin. You know, it's two blokes having a chat in the in the virtual pub, isn't it? Yeah, that's what I tell people. That's what I tell people So, um Yes, once again on behalf of bought the t-shirt. Thank you ever so much chris. It's been brilliant Absolutely something to stay on the line mate to our friends at home If you could please like and subscribe and click the little bell thing Friends a lot of people are missing podcasts and going. Oh, why did I miss that one? And it's like if you don't click the bell you won't get a notification. So please do Massive thank you all for your continued support. Things are really firing off now and uh, that's because of you guys so much love to your Be like water