 Without any further ado, it is my incredible honor and pleasure to introduce Ola Jumoki Ojalei, or Jumi, as our presenter today. She is an Nigerian registered nurse, midwife, lecturer, trainer, conference speaker and author with 16 years of experience across various clinical and academic settings. She has had training and experiences in educating women and their families, both on virtual and on-site platforms. She also has volunteered at several outreach programs targeted at the complete wellness of the childbearing woman and her family. Jumi has undertaken research which focused largely on women, children and adolescent populations, including orphans and vulnerable children. She has presented the findings at national and international conferences. Her diligence and passion for nursing and midwifery has always distinguished her as a dedicated nurse and midwife. She is the lead facilitator and founder of the Research Resource Hub, a social enterprise and educational research center in Lagos, Nigeria, which is dedicated to research capacity building of students and professionals to help them confidently undertake research as it applies to their professional practice and to navigate the research process with ease. In 2020, Jumi released the research workbook for health science professionals, Your Guide to Completing Your Research Like a Pro, which is now being sought for at various institutions within and outside Nigeria and also is available on Amazon. She is a journal reviewer, member of the prestigious Honor Society for Nursing and an international Marseille Society for Perinatal Mental Health. She currently serves as the global mentee representative for the International Marseille Mentorship Program. Jumi is currently a doctoral student at the University of South Florida College of Nursing with a focus on maternal mental health and maternal and child health genomics. Welcome, Jumi. Yeah, good evening everyone. Depending on where you're joining from, thank you so much for attending this session. Can you hear me, please? Yes, can you? Oh, good. Okay. So thank you so much, Dr. Sindineni, for that kind introduction and it's an honor to share this presentation to be the concept analysis I did recently and I would like to acknowledge Dr. Cecilia Getcher, who also shaped my talk process while undertaking this concept analysis. Okay, I need to take the presenter, right? Okay. Kind of make me the presenter, Dr. Lalit. Yeah, I can't. I just asked the VIDM monitor to do that. Okay. I have it now. Thank you. Yeah. So I'll be speaking on the topic, Perinatal Nurses and Midwives Self-Efficacy in Promotion of Perinatal Mental Health. That's going to be the focus today and basically some disclaimer, yeah, yeah. So some disclaimer, I'll be using the word Perinatal Nurses, Midwives to many people, definitely people who care for pregnant women, postnatal women, Perinatal Mental Health. And as we go along, this is going to be the outline of our discussion this evening, just an overview, an introduction to Perinatal Mental Health, the role of Perinatal Nurses and Midwives in Perinatal Mental Health, why we conducted a concept analysis overview of the literature review analysis of the concept and the implications that we highlighted. All right, I start with this quote from Albert Bandura, which states that in order to succeed, people need a sense of self-efficacy, to struggle together with resilience, to meet the inevitable obstacles and inequities of life. I'll take that again. It said, in order to succeed, people, Perinatal Nurses, Midwives need a sense of self-efficacy, to struggle together with resilience, to meet the inevitable obstacles and inequities in our practice. And that was by Albert Bandura. And just an overview of the concepts, we have self and efficacy. So it's from two different words. The term doesn't appear as one word. And self basically is consciousness of one's own identity, while efficacy is basically talking about capacity, power to produce a desired outcome, a desired effect. And Bandura defines self-efficacy to be an individual's belief in ease or capacity to execute behaviors necessary to produce specific performance attainment. Yeah, so that concept was originally proposed by Bandura in 1985, and it has defined it that way. But let's look at why we are talking about this concept in Perinatal Mental Health, which is a focus for today. So Perinatal Mental Health refers to the mental health of women from conception through the first postnatal years. Some studies have even identified that it goes up onto the second postnatal year, just the mental health, the emotions of women from conception, all through pregnancy to the delivery of the baby two years. And the period is recognized as a uniquely opportunity time for Perinatal Mental Health interventions that ranges from screening, this women assessing the women treatment, referring of women who screen positive, to mental health disorders, referring them to specialist mental health providers. And Perinatal Mental Health issues have been identified as the most common psychological complication of childbirth. Yet many women do not seek for help. Studies from high income country, from low income country, have shown that at least about 7 to 15% of women suffer from antipytonic depression, which is not even talked about most of the time. We hear a lot about postpartum depression. Yeah, at least about 10% of women experience postpartum depression. That's aside every other psychological complications like anxiety disorders, mood disorders, psychosis, and substance abuse and all that. And this is even worse in lower, middle income country where screening is inadequate, referral systems are almost absent. Where they are absent, the pathways are not clear. Perinatal Mental Health issues, Perinatal Mental Health is a family issue. Studies have shown that maternal mental health problems are not only detrimental to the woman's health, but they have been linked to reduced sensitivity and responsiveness in the way the woman cares for her child. Sometimes pre-school age up to even adolescent years and it's resulting to be a very problem even in young children. It not only affects this woman whether pregnant or postnatal, it affects the new dad, it affects the newborn, it affects the caregiver around the woman. Yeah, and basically, early detection and treatment of this perinatal mental health problems will benefit not only the woman herself, but all the other people involved in this, in this, in this cycle. What are the roles of perinatal nurses and midwife in perinatal mental health? Yeah, now that we have seen what this is all about, so we're saying that perinatal nurses and midwife are in the key position to screen women, you know, trying to identify women who, who have any sign or symptoms of this disorder, providing education regarding the disorders to pregnant and postpartum women and their families, so not just the woman alone, but her family or whoever attends the clinic with her or who comes to receive care with her because the woman definitely goes back to a family and stays with the family, you know, to ensure that perinatal nurses and midwives are sure that they prevent, you know, perinatal mental health disorders and where this, of course, appropriate treatment or if how to specialist providers when necessary. And because this is a concept analysis, we just want to quickly, you know, identify some synonyms that, that look like self-efficacy, but not exactly self-efficacy. Of course, there are synonyms like the effectiveness, efficaciousness, productiveness, you know, those are terms that you can replace, but they need to pay attention to the sort of good terms, the sort of, the sort of good terms that I have listed here, self-esteem, self-confidence and self-attitude because they show a relationship to self-efficacy and they are sometimes used to depict self-efficacy, but they have their own defining attributes and they do not exactly mean self-efficacy. It's going to show up in some of the concepts that the analysis were doing tonight, but it's exactly not self-efficacy. We'll see shortly how, you know, the attributes of self-efficacy and why we are bringing that term into this discussion. Self-esteem is like a general feeling of self-worth or self-value, you know, self-confidence is a perception of your competence, your capability to fulfill a particular expectation. Attitude is like a complex mental state involving your beliefs, feelings and values, your disposition to act in certain ways. So all of these are direct, they are related to self-efficacy, but they do not exactly mean self-efficacy. And we'll see that shortly. So what's the purpose of this concept analysis? It's basically to utilize the Walker and Arvind method to further clarify the term self-efficacy, which has been an old concept as it were, but we are using and translating it into the field of perinatal mental health in relation to the role that midwives play in the field. And in literature we was conducted and we searched three major database, looking at studies in English language precisely from 2009 to 2021, looking at the concept of self-efficacy amongst perinatal nurses and midwife and how they use this to promote the perinatal mental health of the women, be careful. He terms like self-efficacy, nurse midwife, nurse and midwife, perinatal mental health illness, depression, midwifery students, students, lay midwives, all of these were used in the search strategy. And here is the Prisma flowchart we came up with. And at the end of the day, we have 23 studies that were utilized for the concept analysis. Yeah, and I just want to, listening to the pre-conference session we had for the virtual international, the virtual internationality of the midwife, as you did, it was so interesting to hear that, you know, models would be rolled out shortly and this includes perinatal mental health, which is so interesting because there is an obvious gap as we will see in some of the studies that were reviewed in this concept analysis. You know, there is obvious gap there and that is responsible for some of the things that we've seen among perinatal nurses, among midwives and, you know, the gap showing up more in the child bearing population that we serve as perinatal nurses and midwives. So the studies have shown that women are actually prone to perinatal mood disorders during this perinatal period. It's, some of these are due to now imbalances, you know, that's the woman on the goes and sometimes it has nothing to do, sometimes it's irrespective of socioeconomic status or number of children the woman has had or the kind of family she's come from or something, you know, this can happen to any woman. Talking about perinatal mental health and perinatal mental illness can happen to any woman. So while perinatal nurses and midwives, while we have a key role in supporting the perinatal mental health of women, studies have shown that only 50% of women who experience this disorder are actually identified. And of course, there are still so much more to be done. Apart from identifying these women, they need to be assessed, they need to be treated, they need to be referred when necessary. And this perinatal period is actually the time that this happens, but women are not identified. Studies also showed that the education of nurses and midwife, their training, their level of confidence that they have, the attitudes that nurses and midwives have towards women who present with perinatal mental illness in the level of professional support, midwives perceived learning needs around perinatal mental health actually determines the support and care that they give to women experiencing perinatal mental illness. We are using the concepts because Bandura has said that self-advocacy makes a difference in how people feel, think, behave, and motivate themselves. And self-efficacy is actually a self-perception of one's ability to perform competently some task in a particular setting. And this self-advocacy is very important for perinatal nurses and midwives in their practice, of perinatal mental health, because it is linked to significant maternal and child health outcomes, results in even child developmental delays, even an affect children up to school age, it affects their outcome in school, it affects adolescents, some of them get exposed against adolescent pregnancy, and so many issues and like the cycle just keeps going on, some of these things having intergenerational impact. And so it's very important that we talk about self-advocacy for perinatal nurses and midwives. Perinatal nurses and midwives talking about their self-advocacy, it can increase or impact their motivation, and that's why it's important, it can motivate them to support women who are suffering from these disorders. And Bandura also mentioned that people with higher self-advocacy approach difficult tasks as challenges, persevere, and do not try to avoid them. And that means that a nurse's self-advocacy or a midwife's self-advocacy is correlated to their professional autonomy and empowerment. And the reason why we're talking about this is because it's an aspect of care, perinatal mental health care is an underserved aspect of maternity care. And in midwives, we believe that there is a whole lot to attend to with this woman, you know, whether in the pregnancy period or the postnatal period, there's a whole lot to attend to, and I mean, we can as well just leave the mental health of the woman, but we're saying that perinatal mental health disorders is the most common psychological complications, but a lot of attention has been drawn to the physical complications that women go through, yes, but the psychological complications have been left unattended to, and a lot of women are suffering this. So in this presentation, the self-advocacy of perinatal nurses and midwives will be defined as a combination of the nurses and midwives in knowledge, their confidence, their attitude, their perception of illness and the infrastructural factors that determine their role in promoting, assessing and managing women with perinatal mental health problems. Now, Bandura, you know, because this is based on the theory of self-advocacy, and so we're using some of the attributes, the concepts that, you know, the theorist himself has proposed, and he had in five, three major attributes, excuse me, of self-advocacy, listed them as cognitive processes, affective processes, and the locals of control. So for the cognitive processes, it basically refers to the knowledge base, you know, the professional training, technical skill and expertise of perinatal nurses and midwife with regards to perinatal mental health promotion, identification of women who have prone to these disorders and caring, actually caring for the women with problems. So this is really talking about the knowledge base and expertise that perinatal nurses and midwife have, or should have, you know, to be able to develop self-efficacy. The affective processes basically, you know, is a strong source of incentive itself, motivation for perinatal nurses and midwife. It has been reported that affective processes, you know, have, you know, dual motivating roles, because the more self-satisfied people are, the more they are motivated to accomplish their goals, like, you know, supporting women who are going through this disorder, being able to identify, you know, resources in the community, being able to screen them, being able to refer them to where they can get help. Yes, and also be able to work with the multidisciplinary team that is involved in the care of these women. And on the other hand, you know, the more self-disatisfied people are, talking about affective processes, it heightens their effort sometimes, you know, like they are not satisfied with what they see, you know, women suffering this condition, and, you know, they just want to go ahead, heighten their efforts, and accomplish the set goals by supporting women with perinatal mental health disorder. So perinatal, the attitude, the motivation, and, you know, capacity to render care to these women is also being supported by the affective processes that perinatal nurses and midwife, you know, experience. And the last one is the locus of control, which can be internal or external. Basically, it's locus of control refers to, you know, the way an individual views events outcomes in their own life. But for this context, we are looking more about the internal locus of control, because that way, the perinatal nurse and midwife is able to not just be reactive or passive about what can be done, you know, they want to take responsibility for their action. They want to feel confident about, you know, the capacity to reflect change in their practice in their roles of perinatal mental health, especially when they face challenges and barriers, which they would always experience, you know, in their practice, thereby contributing to a strong self-efficacy for them. And if, on the contrary, when perinatal nurses and midwife have more of the external locus of control rather than the internal locus of control, you know, they believe they cannot support women with perinatal mental health care, like you have to wait for some things to happen, like you are being reactive, like reactive and not responsive, not wanting to take responsibility, okay, until this happens, before I'm able to do this, and then I can as well just wait all through for negative consequences to occur. And just like we've learned in the keynote session as well that, you know, as leaders, we just need to abandon these ditching, you know, all the stories and be able to do what we need to do to support the women that we care for. And so also, Abad Bandra identified, identified, sorry, excuse me, was too fast there. So identified antecedents of self-efficacy, talking about inactive mastery, inactive mastery, the vicarious experience, the verbal persuasion and physiological areas of what Abad Bandra was basically talking about here, these are the events that need to happen and need to precede the development of self-efficacy. So it's not automatic. It's very vital to get the theorist's concept that self-efficacy will only develop when there is inactive mastery, there's vicarious experience for the parental and midwife. There's verbal persuasion, physiological arrows, and then I'll just talk about that in a bit. Yeah, identify these as sources of self-efficacy. For the inactive mastery is really the most influential source of self-efficacy because it provides the most authentic evidence of whether one can master his skill, and what it takes to succeed or to reach a goal, like a performance attainment. Yeah, and prior and current mastery of rendering this care, talking about parental mental health care, or services to women is an important antecedent of parental mental health self-efficacy for parental nurses and midwife. Talking about vicarious experiences, it refers to vision experiences of a person seeing other people perform these roles successfully, not failing at their roles. And what this do for parental nurses and midwife is that it helps them to develop self-efficacy because they are able to imitate a role model what they see their peers do, or seeing colleagues do, where they deliver parental mental health care to clients. And modeling of parental mental health care delivered by colleagues provides midwife an additional judgment of their own capabilities and they feel confident because they've seen colleagues, they've seen peers, they've seen seniors colleague do this and they feel, yes, I can do this and I would succeed at this. Verbal possession, really talking about the verbal reinforcement that nurses and midwives receive and this can be to encourage or discourage, you see. So it can actually go both ways. We encourage, it can be qualitative feedback from professional colleagues, highlighting the importance of this. Oh, you're doing this well. Oh yes, you need to do that. Yes, you're correct. And of course that also builds leadership capacity. It also develops resilience in handling very difficult relationships, navigating the system is really where they encounter obstacles. The last is the physiological arousal, which is basically, it modifies the whole thing. It modifies the inactive mastery, the vacations experience, verbal persuasion. And some of the antecedents that we found in literature showed that when parental nurses and midwife have positive self-efficacy, positive antecedents, there is advanced knowledge of parental mental health care, not just the care alone, they also understand the pathways of care. There's confidence to support women experiencing this disorder. There's positive attitude to women who have these issues. There's increased ability for parental mental health. In this perception, they're able to pick the signs and symptoms even without the woman saying so much. Yeah, it has also been identified that there's supportive infrastructural and organizational factors. Where positive antecedents exist, there's continuous and qualitative feedback on their performance. And studies has also shown that some institutional upgrade their curriculum, both the theory and clinical aspect, just to ensure that they develop self-efficacy for parental nurses and midwife. For the negative antecedents that exist and do not help nurses and midwives to develop self-efficacy includes when nurses and midwives have negative views about parental mental health care. Like this is an abnormality of practice and in midwife, I should care for normal women, I should care for normal pregnancy, I shouldn't be doing this. But there's a whole lot in the spectrum of care from screening women, identifying women, assessing women, history-taking and all of that, which is part of practice that we need to do. It also results into negative beliefs about parental mental illness. There is new type of knowledge. Whether it's negative antecedents, there is limited knowledge, limited confidence and skills across a range of parental mental health topics. Midwives show feelings of one preparedness and inexperience in parental mental health care. There's negative influence of colleagues and peers, yes. And there is also negative stereotypes like no. The women experiencing that kind of illness or that kind of disorders are actually not normal. Or maybe because they are poor, maybe because she's an adolescent or maybe because she's had five children or something giving negative stereotypes to women who have this disorder. And of course, for negative antecedents, there's also a toxic and negative workplace culture, which for them go as the morale within the midfield workforce. Consequences of self-efficacy. And what kind of events said that these are things that happen whether the self-efficacy or not. So these depend on whether there's self-efficacy or there is absence of self-efficacy. We look at the consequence briefly. So positive consequences. So studies have shown that midwives are more knowledgeable and confident about parental mental health care. Yes, when they have self-efficacy, they have better attitude towards parental women. There's higher sense of parental mental illness perception. They are able to navigate infrastructural factors more easily than others. There's significant reduction of parental mental disorders because there's knowledge, there is better attitude. So there's reduction of parental mental disorders, which is what we want. And there's further reduction of the consequences on the mother, father, babies, caregivers, grandmothers and everyone around. Whereas, more self-efficacy, there is limited knowledge and ability to identify these disorders. There's poor health-seeking behaviors. So if you may remember, we said that part of the roles that nurses and midwives have in parental mental health include health education. And whether it's in negative self-efficacy, sorry, low self-efficacy, they're not able to teach women to identify these signs and symptoms. They're able to come out to speak when they are experiencing this. This slide is basically talking about some of the skills instruments that have been used in some of the studies that we reviewed, to assess self-efficacy amongst parental nurses and midwives, some of them among those in a midwifery student. All these are tested. They have validated instruments and they have good combat alpha value when these are from 0.7 to 0.9. And some of them have been translated to other languages including Spanish, Vietnamese, African and all of that. So what are the implications of this that we have found? There's implications for practice, implications for education and leadership. And we'll look at that briefly. So practicing is the most important source of self-efficacy because it actually relies on the actual personal experiences. As parental nurses and midwives, we are hands-on professional. We have more confidence. We believe more in what we do with our hands and how we are able to directly affect the life of women and the family that we care for. So when we understand the positive and negative and systems of self-efficacy, so parental nurses and midwives clinical practice can be enhanced when we identify the facilitators for self-efficacy and reduce the barriers so that we are able to render effective care. What is this implication for nursing and midwifery education? This has quite a whole lot for education. And I'm so happy that this has been identified and we're looking forward to when all these models will be rolled out and to bridge the gap in knowledge and practice. Okay, so it has implications for effective clinical training for nursing and midwifery students because it affects their passive self-efficacy, showing that students with low self-efficacy will avoid situations that would likely lead to failure and irrespective of content that has also been taught in classroom, students need a demonstration of the skills that they need to support women with perinatal mental health disorders or to identify women in the perinatal period. And of course that improves proficiency. So since we demonstrate, we turn demonstrate. Also, studies show that the clinical environments that students practice in, their colleagues, the clinical educators' capacity, you can influence the creation of self-efficacy in students. So again, what students see their educators do or they see their instructors do is exactly what they do. So if they feel that they don't demonstrate self-efficacy in caring for women with these disorders, they're like, okay, maybe it's not something I need to do. And studies also have shown that a weak relationship between faculty and hospital lack of staff and training facilities, all professional trainers could adversely influence self-efficacy. And what are the implications for leadership? Like we say everything rises and falls on leadership. It's important that leaders keep qualitative feedback from those receiving training to make them know that they are actually having important, that knowledge they are gaining is very important. And it also helps to address the social and technical skills. It helps to improve the leadership capacity of nurses and midwife. It helps them to develop resilience while handling working relationship amongst perinatal mental health. It's very important to note that perinatal mental health is a multidisciplinary area of practice. You have the social workers, you have the health visitors, you have perinatal nurses, midwife, psychiatrists, psychologists, and so many people in the mix coming together to ensure that women is experiencing good perinatal mental health and not illness as it were. So it's very important that leaders give good feedback to those who are getting exposed to this training of course, right mentoring is important, continual support, exposure to clinical practice with continuous practice will result in significant effect on the self-efficacy of nurses and midwife and also effective leadership and education will help perinatal nurses and midwife develop and sustain. When they develop this sense of confidence, this self-efficacy, it helps them to sustain it because they don't want to develop it and lose it somewhere along the line. In conclusion, this concept analysis is defined, research into the concept of perinatal nurses and midwives self-efficacy with regards to their role in perinatal mental health care by improving the self-efficacy of nurses and midwife. It's impact their knowledge, their confidence, exposure, training, and their motivation, thereby enabling them to be capable of providing effective perinatal mental health care. It plays an important role in supporting women who experience perinatal mental health problems and also supporting their families because it's a family issue. I end with this quote from Albert van der Roa again. It says that people's believe about their abilities have a profound effect on those abilities. So sometimes these abilities can be latent or you know, we just think that, oh, I can't do this or do I think I can do this? What will my colleagues say about what I'm doing or do I think I have capacity to support women or to join in multi-disciplinary support women experiencing perinatal mental health disorders? You know, Albert van der Roa said that what we believe about these capacities that we carry has a profound effect on those abilities themselves. So I think these are my references. And thank you for listening to my presentation. And we'll take questions, comments. You made an amazing presentation. And listening, I just had a, myself had a question and people can go ahead and raise their hand if they have a question or put it in the chat. Really interesting, you know, learning about the self-efficacy attributes and antecedents and how critical that is in terms of outcomes also, right, for patients. I'm interested and you did talk about, you know, educators and faculty, but I'm interested in the environment as well, you know, particularly in settings where the rest of the team that people collaborate with, what did you find in your research about how the physicians and the administration and kind of the external forces of the setting might impact self-efficacy for nurses and midwives? Yeah, thank you very much for that question. So like we mentioned, like I mentioned during the implications for leadership, you know, some of the studies have identified that toxic workplace culture has affected midwives in carrying out some of this role. There are some interventional studies that have been carried out to show that, yes, when midwives are supported with knowledge, when they are supported with practice over a period of time, they are able to deliver excellent care. Yeah, but talking about the relationship that exists, yeah, some of the studies I found qualitative studies actually was also great, yeah, but this is, but in my own opinion, it bothers more on the self-efficacy of nurses and midwives, what they think about their abilities in this, you know, midwives expressly stated that they do not have the confidence to support women, you know, expressing disorders or, you know, sort of work with the multidisciplinary team, because even some of them see it as an abnormality of practice, feels like, oh, it's for the psychiatrist, oh, it's for the health visitors. So yeah, these are some of the things that have crippled the self-efficacy of midwives and of course, that has left midwives not to mend their posts because again, there is a lot to be done. Imagine saying that 50 to 50, only 50% of women experiencing these disorders are actually identified. So it means that there's a gap in screening and there's a whole lot to be done. So midwives needs to take their place. And not doing what we need to do is obviously creating a gap because the psychologist cannot do everything, the psychiatrist cannot do everything, the social worker cannot do everything, the health visitor cannot do everything. We encounter these women, we understand what they go through in their bodies, but we need to be ready, we need to say that we are ready to take that place, we're ready to build knowledge, we're ready to be hands on, we're ready to work in multidisciplinary team. And all this is possible when midwives are equipped to do this. Thank you. And another question kind of on that, how do we do that? So you have some midwives here listening to you and you talked a little bit about we need them to mentor that, we need to demonstrate that in our practice. What do you see, Jimmy, because I know your background a bit and who you are and what you're about. And maybe you could give us a little guidance on how you see that in everyday practice as we mentor new midwives and our colleagues. Thank you again for that question. So yeah, for education, so I can also say throughout my practice and throughout my student days as a nurse training, as a nurse training, as a midwife, I never, I didn't know that as midwives we needed to, of course I read it in the textbook, but never knew that there's something I needed to do, there's something called screening, that I can do as a midwife for women, not just women who are experiencing illness, just routine screening, just the way we screen for gestational diabetes, hypertension and all of that. I didn't know as a student, and that's the gap we're talking about. That's the gap. Of course, I train in a low middle income country and primary mental health is something that's not really talked about. In fact, there are stereotypes for anything in mental health issues in Africa, for instance. So it's, I didn't have it in my student days. As a faculty member, taking students back to the clinical practice, you see that the midwives that they learn from do not know how to do this. So we're saying that talking about curriculum upgrade, there needs to be that, because that was obviously absence. That was, there was a gap in that in the talking about curriculum. So there was a gap there. So we need to work on a curriculum upgrade and that's why I said I was excited to hear that Dr. Piotre is working on some models to build them, to bridge the knowledge gap. So that's for the theory aspect, both for the clinical aspect, clinical training of student life as a midwife. This also needs to be developed. Exposing students deliberately to this practice, telling them about screening, mentoring them about screening, working with midwives who have also built capacity. So if the midwife doesn't have capacity, they cannot show the students anything better. That's what I think about it. Fantastic. And a question from Halima who wrote, are there any plans on how to prevent your professional experience from not influencing your data? Oh, well, we actually have not particularly talked of that, but yeah, that's very important to look at. Yes. Yes. I've actually not talked about it, but thank you for bringing it up, Halima. Excellent. So thank you so much, Jimmy, for your amazing presentation. I really appreciate the work that you're doing and the work you continue to do as a doctoral student, and we look forward to many more years of learning from you and your experience. Thank you so much. So as we close, we'll go ahead and stop the recording, and I'll ask my VIVM facilitator to do that.