 I'm so happy to be here with Roberta Grimes. I have been a fan of her work for a long time. In fact, her books and her podcasts have been instrumental for me to understand better about spiritual growth, the afterlife, which we're gonna talk a lot about today. And it's just brought me a lot of comfort and courage. I'll say a lot more about Roberta's work, but I just wanna say hi to you, Roberta. Thank you so much for being here. Consider yourself virtually hugged. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you, thank you. And Roberta, actually, we weren't clear whether we were gonna do audio or video, so I'm grateful that she was willing to just kind of last minute say, all right, let's do video. So thank you for doing this. Whatever you'd like, dear. Yeah, so I'll just say a little bit. You have spent, about your background, you've spent decades studying the afterlife through literature, through reading about the near-death experiences, and of course, interviewing dozens, maybe even more than dozens now, of experts on the afterlife, on mediumship, spiritual growth, et cetera, on your podcast, which I listen to, and I love. And the podcast, in fact, has been around since 2013, 2012. 2013, I didn't know that. Why? I did a little bit of research. So seven times 52, that's a lot of interviews. I don't know, I did it. Yeah, and I just, I wanna encourage everybody, definitely check out Roberta's website and podcast. I just wanna give people your website is RobertaGrimes.com, is that right? That's right, and the podcast is available on weptalkradio.net, and wherever podcasts are sold, and it's called Seek Reality with Roberta Grimes. And I think that's really a great name, because where a lot of people, a lot of people in the spiritual, I guess spiritual growth space, I don't know if that's a space, but it's- I'm sure it is, everything's a space now. Right, it's that a lot of people just go off on whatever they believe feels good, and oh, it feels good to believe this, so I'm gonna believe it. It sounds right, it sounds about right, but Seek Reality is really what you're trying to do. You're trying to study what is the convergence of the evidence for what's actually going on. That's right, exactly. Or our world, our reality, the layers of reality, the afterlife, et cetera, and that's what I love about your kind of groundedness. I mean, you came to that originally, I mean, your career has been a lawyer. So it's all about the evidence and proving the case. It's all about the evidence, it's all about the truth. Why would anyone believe me? I'm, who am I? But I've spent 50 years seeking the truth, and I can back it all up. This is all true. Amazing, amazing. And you've published 13 books. Is it? Who did that? I've never counted that. I know you kind of lose track after a few books. 13 books, and some of them are novels in fact. I haven't actually started your novels yet, but I'm looking forward to it. They've got some great Amazon reviews. I wanna just, before we go on, I'm such a fan of your work, we're gonna talk all about the afterlife today and what it's like to go through the experience of dying and all that stuff about spiritual growth. But I wanted to just show people who are watching here, your books. This is the lineup of your books, the fun of dying. Now we're gonna talk all about why you went with that title, right? And once you started the fun of dying, and that was such a success, you kept on going with the fun of staying in touch, which is about keeping in touch with our loved ones after death, the fun of growing forever, which is about spiritual growth. Liberating Jesus, we'll talk about why you feel that it's important to talk about Jesus. The fun of living together is about our nation, about racial harmony, right? Which is, my goodness, I mean, if there's a more important time right now to be talking about that. Very important time. My Thomas is actually about Thomas Jefferson, who was your spirit guide, one of your spirit guides. He doesn't wanna be called Thomas Jefferson, but the entity that once was Thomas Jefferson is, in fact, my spirit guide. It's incredible, yeah, and we could talk more about that if you're interested. And I should just emphasize that all these, this is all his doing, it's all his ideas. Including all the titles, everything. And then these are, some of these are novels. I am actually currently listening to this on audiobook, and I love it. I'm probably, I think I'm on chapter nine or 10, and it's fascinating, but that's a story. Blakey Morgan is truly unique. I know of no other entity from the sixth level who ever has chosen to incarnate hundreds of years after he already finished incarnating. Simply so, he can teach us in our own idiom. And that's what he did. He's just remarkable. And of course, you have been studying the evidence but for those of us who haven't studied it, when we hear sixth level being, it's probably like the same, the first time you heard sixth level being, you're probably like, all right, okay, whatever, sixth level being. But say more, well, there's so much to go into. I wanna actually start from maybe the beginning of the afterlife, which is I wanna ask you about an experience that obviously we're all gonna go through that a lot of us are afraid of and which is the experience of dying. And I feel like this is so important to talk about because the fear of dying is, as you've written about, it's our base fear that springs, from which springs all of our other fears. That's right. And the experience of dying, and some people actually who are watching this believe in the afterlife with one religion or another. And maybe they're not afraid of what happens afterwards but they're afraid of the experience of dying. And I wonder if you could share with us what you've learned through all this research and the convergence of evidence on what happens then? What happens when we, God forbid, get into that car accident or have that heart attack or whatever it is, the way we die or hopefully die peacefully. But of course, car accidents and heart attacks are common ways for people to go, unfortunately, or heart disease or some kind. So what happens? Do we experience all that pain and tell us what you've learned? Well, the first thing I think we need to get to make clear is that if anyone is telling you that they died and came back, they did not ever get to the afterlife and they did not actually die. Death is always a one-way trip. Near death experiences are wonderful but no one who comes back from a near death experience has ever actually been to where the afterlife is and they've never undergone what is an amazingly consistent process and that's actual death. So let's talk about what happens and why. All of us plan our life on earth. And into the life plan that we write with our guides before we're born, we plan two or three exit points that our higher consciousness can choose to take when we've gotten everything we can out of this lifetime because nobody wants to be here. It's much better back home. So as soon as we can possibly get out of this place, we do and we don't make the choice on this level but we make the choice on the level of what, I guess scientists call it the subconscious but it's really the super conscious. We leave behind most of our mind. We're not consciously aware of it while we're in these bodies. So usually in the last year of life, whatever the reason of for death will be and it may be something that you may not even be sick. Usually people are wrapping up that life. They're meeting again with people maybe they'd been estranged from. They're just wrapping out. Husbands who are about to be hit on the head by a tree, perfectly healthy will within a few weeks before they die say to their wife, hey, you ought to know what all the passwords are and they'll give them the passwords. It's amazing over and over again, I see this. So then comes the death. Let's assume you're dying of illness, you're dying in bed but it doesn't matter really how you're dying. What happens is you get, some people have a lot of pain before death. You're right. If they have cancer or something and they're maybe medicated. But in the last day and a half or so before you die, usually you pretty much don't have pain that goes away and also maybe you get better in an odd way. In fact, doctors see this as a sign that death is near when suddenly you seem to be almost normal and then you perk up and you're talking. In the hours before death, people who had had end stage dementia or they have no brain at all at this point will often wake up. It's called terminal lucidity. And doctors are well aware of it. They'll wake up, some of them will suddenly sit up and start talking normally. That's a sign that death is very close. And the reasons, we can talk about why that happens but it's a miracle except it happens very often. And so then you get to the point where you're actually about to die. Within a few hours of death or even a day or two of death you suddenly start to see people that you know are dead. Only they look young, happy. They usually appear in the upper corners of the room which is why if you see someone who's dying sort of passively looking at the corner of the room you know that person's talking in their mind with their dead loved ones. When it's actually time to die, they're close to us, they're reassuring us. People usually when they start seeing these people that they used to think were dead but of course they're not they usually stop interacting with people around the bed. It's fame. Everyone knows that Steve Jobs said, look beyond his family, he said, oh wow, oh wow. Those are documented his last words. To his family, well that's the kind of thing that happens when the death bed visitors are suddenly there when it's actually time to die. And by the way, we're not afraid. As soon as you see great great grandma and there she is in pigtails or whatever she would bore when she was young you're not afraid at all. And so when it's actually time to start to die if you're awake, you'll often feel your energy bodies which are, you're made like a matrisca doll with nested bodies. And then almost outer one is apparently your physical body, that's staying. There's also an energy body that extends beyond it which I'm not sure about whether it stays or goes and I'm not sure it matters. But what's gonna go sort of unhooks from inside your body from your fingers, from your toes, up your arms, up your legs, gathers in your chest. And then it leaves and it usually appears to leave as a mist, if someone is sort of semi psychic and they're sitting at the bed, it looks like a mist and they're actually, you can find on the internet you can find a mouse that enters a trap and there's a hush of mist above the mouse. So apparently this is standard with all beings that die. And but it appears to disappear just above your body. That's because it's rising in vibration very rapidly. What is vibrating? Consciousness is the only thing that exists. What you experience in a dim way is consciousness. That's all that exists. And your particular consciousness is let it weighed down by this body but as it's leaving it rises in vibration very rapidly. So the people around the bed usually can't see it anymore. And it forms again in the air above your body into a mimic of a body, but it's naked. You go, oh my goodness. And immediately you close your body and then usually people then sort of tip down and stand on their feet or in the air, they're upright and they're hugging mom and they're hugging dad and they're hugging their childhood pets and it's just the best reunion you ever had in your life. But they try to get us out of there right away. And the reason is simple because especially if your death was unexpected, the people around your death bed will probably be very upset. They'll be feeling for the pulse. So we say, oh my goodness, he died, she died. Well, they haven't yet died, but we're all connected between all those spiritual bodies that are nested in our physical body is something which actually it's called in the Bible, a silver cord. It's a streak of energy. And it looks like a silver cord really, but it's very, very tough during your lifetime. It stretches forever. You can go to the end of the universe at night. For example, if you astral travel and it's still, it's fine, it stretches, but now it's fraying and when it breaks, that's the moment of your physical death. That's the moment your body dies because the only thing that's kept alive has been that silver cord. Wow, this is, I wanna just pause right here I used to say that I'm rewinding a little bit the experience that so many of us are afraid of is the pain, right? That we suppose there's some great pain before we lose consciousness and die and then we find ourselves in heaven and whatever. Never is that. Yeah, and that's what I like from the book Flying High in Spirit that I'm listening to that you co-authored with Mikey Morgan. He didn't have the pain when his car had that accident. He just suddenly saw himself above his body and I've also read lots of near death experiences that say the same thing and also even some medium communications about from people. So it's so comforting that somehow spirit tries to take care of us and prevent us from. You make an interesting point and that's, let's take Mikey's experience. Mikey's last exit point was at the age of 20 because he needed to get out of that body so he could communicate through his mom. And he was driving in the mountains with some friends in a SUV and they were having a time of their lives. It ran off the road and he was in the air above it at that point. That's typical. If people die in an auto accident over and over again they tell us I wasn't in the car when it happened. If you are going to die in some event you're not in the body when that event actually happens. This day we hear this over and over again. It appears to be true. Even people who are murdered, who die under torture whatever, if you're gonna die you don't have to go through that. Any event. Yeah, yeah, it's profound. And so once we leave and our silver cord has frayed and has broken and we are on the other side what do we know? What have you found to be the evidence of what happens then? Well, let's get to there first because what happens is that mom and your dog Fido and everything gather around you to keep your attention away from the bedside where your children and your wife would are going oh my goodness what are we gonna do? If you pay attention to the people at your bedside you're very likely to lower your vibration to the point where you can't even anymore see mom and dad. So if people remember nothing from our conversation today remember this if you have died get the heck out of there right now. And that's what the visitors are there actually to do they're there to get you away. And what happens is that you're if you, where does all of this happen? The easiest way to talk about it is this in the room where everybody is there are hundreds of TV channels right? And if you have a TV you can pick you can turn it on and pick up a channel and there's a reality inside that TV. Like just in this room that I'm in right now there are hundreds of frequencies maybe even more. That's right. And if I had the right device which of course is the human brain or whatever you know I'm tuned into this reality right now even though in this very room there are hundreds of realities, dimensions if I knew how to tune into it I could. That's right exactly. So what happens is right now you're tuned to that body on this material level of reality which is relatively low. But what happens when you die and you're going where you're about to go is that your mind simply tunes to a slightly higher vibration it's not even that much higher. And there it picks up a whole new solid reality. To you making the trip just let mom and dad and everybody help you because they know what they're doing and where they're going. But what happens is the room around you sort of gets vague and vaporizing and then it disappears. And around you appears there's like a mist that you're going through now around you and this by the way is typical. It isn't always exactly like this because there are some cultures which have different expectations. For example, my belief from all my research is that in some of the Asian countries people feel they're walking across a bridge and then the mist clears. I mean, it's just cultural. But what happens when the mist clears is that you are in a beautiful new reality much more beautiful than anything on earth but very earth-like and it's very cultural. For example, the North American we call it the summer land. It's the mid levels of the afterlife is very much like a beautiful day in Colorado. It has rocky mountains, it's very green if you've ever been to Colorado but the mountains are there in the background. There are beautiful gardens, there are fountains, there are birds and small animals. There's this lovely sort of sense in the air of love and light. The light is very white. It feels very different from anything that you've ever experienced here but you have been there before so immediately you're home again. You go, oh my goodness, how could I have forgotten this? And about that time, remember we said that you just have a small amount of your mind here? The mind that you left behind rejoins your mind and suddenly you know and remember everything and you remember people that you had forgotten and it's like an amazing experience. Most people are stunned by it. You know, it kind of reminds me a little bit of waking from a dream, right? Like we were at night, you know, we had this dream it seems so real, we're so scared or we're so happy or whatever it is the dream is, the content is and when we wake up just for a moment we're like, oh wait a second, that wasn't real? Now this is real, we think, laying in bed but this is real, that wasn't real. Tell us it's much more real there. And now we remember upon waking from the dream, oh yeah, that's right, I have work to go to or I have all these things in my life, my real life that the memories come back to us almost instantly and you're saying that's kind of like waking from this earthly dream. That's right, that's right. Wow, wow. But I want to stress because if you're talking about pain I want to stress that from the period, you know within a day or two before your death when you start to actually disengage from your body from then and forever after there is no pain. If there's only comfort, happiness, love, joy and this is true for everybody. I don't care what you're dying of, it's true for everyone. So death is not anything to fear, it's something to look forward to happily. Wow, wow, thank you, thank you for that. I hope everyone who watches this will find comfort and courage for facing that inevitable experience that we're all gonna have, that transition, that waking from this earthly dream. So all right, I wanna read to you a little bit of a quote from one of our recent blog posts called Amazing Grace and I loved reading that. And you wrote, in order for you to grow spiritually while you are here, your life on earth must be designed to make you take this illusion seriously. The fact that human minds cannot die, that our real minds cannot die, our consciousness cannot die must be kept from us. So we retain our fear. Fear of death is the base fear from which springs all the negativity that is needed to make our spiritual growth here work at all. There's so much there we can talk about, but two questions I have for you, right? One question is, well, I think the quote almost answers the question. The one question I have is, you've described this beautiful reality we're gonna go to that we're gonna wake from. If we were having a bad dream, if we knew that I loved them was having a bad dream, they're like, hey, wake up, it's just a dream. You know, we would wanna wake up and get on with a better reality consciousness. But of course, that's true of what's happening here. We are living almost in hell compared to the summer land, the heaven that's awaiting us. That's right. Why do we stay at all is the first question. Let's start there. Let's ask ourselves, why do we come to earth in the first place? Which is actually the same question as what's the purpose of life, right? Yes. Now we know, and the dead tell us consistently, we come here to grow spiritually. We hunger to grow spiritually, which means really little more than raising our personal consciousness vibration away from fear and toward love. We wanna do that. But in the summer land, it's very hard to do because there's nothing to push against. If you've ever been to the gym, you know what I'm talking about. So it's very much like coming to the gym except it's a spiritual gym when we come here. So we stripped down to our shorts and a t-shirt, which is what we stripped down to the part of our mind which will allow us to grow very efficiently. And then we get on some of these horrible torturous machines to stretch our muscles. Well, those horrible machines are, and we planned them in every case, the death of a child, a horrible illness, an accident, a business disaster, all those things that you think God is being real mean to you, you planned them into this lifetime and you planned them just the same way you'd go to a gym because you wanna grow spiritually. One problem the people who help us have with us when we're about to come back into another earth lifetime is that we feel so powerful. We forget how hard it is really to be on earth. And so we try to plan as much as possible and we want this to be our last earth lifetime. We wanna be able to just ace it and come back and we're all done. But the problem is we don't want, or they especially don't want us to be overmatched. So there are councils which actually review our life plans with us, with the people that we're gonna have to be important in our lives and with all the guides and try to talk us out of some of the stress that we have chosen to put on ourselves during this lifetime. Try to get it down to something workable. Isn't that funny? I mean, but think about it, people wonder why do babies cry all the time? Wow, yeah, yeah. Because they think, I can't believe I did this again. Oh my goodness. And I wish I could, I wish I could just. That was in spirit communication. Try to get in the way of people learning the truth and they do it all the time. But we can defeat them. Yeah, so this is fascinating. Well, first of all, part of where this is being streamed is onto a Facebook page called Soul Gym. So. Soul Gym, see, it's great. Soul Gym, so you well, Jim. And it's because partly inspired by your work because I read in your book, this is like an afternoon in the gym, you know? And so, that's right. And we plan and we have, by the way, we have a personal trainer just like at some of the, if you can afford one, you go to a gym, you pay for a personal trainer who's there with you, spotting you, make sure you don't hurt yourself too much and guiding you on what the next exercise is. And that's our main spirit guide. That's our spirit guide. Part of getting ready to plan another Earth lifetime is working with people that we are very close to who might wanna also come in and have this kind of lifetime with us, doing different things that might become a spouse, a child, a close friend, a tremendous enemy. Some of the people you think of as your enemies are actually very close eternal friends. They came in to give you a little help with dealing with the negativity that having them in your life will give you. But above all is our spirit guide. We all have a major spirit guide, one primary guide who is there before we're born with us our whole lives and then with us, with us through the life review that happens after we die. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. So we planned these things and I love the image you said about how we were so eager to get the most out of this Earth life again. And one of the things that we have in your mention, which is in your work as well, is that this is such a precious opportunity that so many souls want to come to this gym because it's a really hard gym and then they know that they can really grow their muscles if they come here. And we are one of the lucky ones that have this opportunity, right? It's actually, we're told, we've been told by a number of beings that are high enough to, and another problem we have is that there are a lot of people who are relatively low, they're not negative, but they're relatively low in their development, but they're able to communicate through people on Earth and they say things that are simply not true. I have seen some of the books that have been written and frankly, a lot of what the communicator knows for certain is just not true. But yes, in point of fact, we plan these lifetimes and we plan them with the certainty that we're gonna ace them out. And that turns out not really to often be the case. We do the best we can. What happens if you're a suicide? What happens if you kill yourself? Yeah, that's an important question because again, right now our world is going through one of the probably the hardest time that I remember in my lifetime with pandemic, with what's going on in the United States with the racial injustice, but just with the economy, so many people, something like, what is it? 30% of Americans or 40% of Americans have filed for unemployment. It's some huge number. And so a lot of people are suffering right now. And if and when they learn about the wonderful afterlife that's the come that is our home, that's what we actually deserve, all of us, each of us, it's tempting to say, well, let me just end this because why am I still here then? We worried about that with the fun of dying when it first came out. In fact, I was- That's your first book, The Fun of Dying. That was my first book in this series. And what seems to be the case though is the more you know about what's going on, the less likely you are to kill yourself because you understand there's a reason why all of these things are happening and you wanna carry it forward. So it turned out not to be the case that The Fun of Dying has caused a lot of people to leave. But the thing is, if you kill yourself, there could just gonna be a reason why. And what we've found, and this is very consistent through all the evidence, is that it depends on the reason why, whether or not you're gonna forgive yourself. Now we know now that there is no judgment by any religious being. There is no judgment by God, by Jesus, or by anyone. And believe it or not, Jesus tells us in the gospels that God doesn't judge us and he doesn't judge us. Why Christians still think there's somehow a judgment that they're gonna have to fuss over, I'm at loss. I guess what he said was that you're gonna be judging yourself or something along the line. Yes, he does say that. And that turns out to be true. But so when you watch and the process is simple in case anyone's worried about that, it's almost a holistic review. You get to sort of experience how you made other people feel in your lifetime. And your whole lifetime seems to go very quickly compared to what it does here. How is that possible? Because there's no time beyond this material universe where we go and spend most of our eternity, there is no time, and as we know time here. But the point is, when you go and review your life, let's say you killed yourself, you're gonna get to see the effect that had on people. And you're gonna get to realize why you had the experience that made you wanna kill yourself. So for people who kill themselves at midlife, just because they planned something awful into their life and then they didn't wanna do it when they got there. Cause of course they didn't remember it was a plan and they killed themselves at a midlife that age. That tends to be the only problem. If you kill yourself as a sub-adult, there's never a problem. You always forgive yourself. If you kill yourself because you're dying of cancer or because you're old, nobody cares. They're perfectly happy to help us forgive ourselves. But if we kill ourselves because our business went under, that's something we planned. So the more people know that. Or a heartbreak or, yeah, yeah. Or even someone, a loved one dying and you love them so much, you wanna be with them again. Oh, I hear from people like that all the time. I can't live without them. Usually it's women who can't live without them. So, but nonetheless, once people understand that this is all what they planned and it's so brief, it is so brief, people realize they have to just face it and accept it and go on. And I think after the more you know the less likely you are ever to kill yourself. So that's a plus. That's a good thing. Well, once I started learning about the afterlife, it was, gosh, it's been since about 20, I mean, all my life, interestingly, why I grew up as a Buddhist, more like folk Buddhism in Taiwan where it was more like going to the temple and praying for good fortune kind of Buddhism. Not the kind of Buddhism that we know in the West, which I think is better for our growth. And then I got converted to evangelical Christianity, was a Bible study leader, worship leader. I was really into the Bible thumping and like trying to convert people into, if they believe these certain truths, then they will go to heaven. You know, that kind of Christianity. Of course, you know, dear, the fruits of the spirit are proven that you believe these certain truths. And then, you know, I kind of lost my faith. I was afraid I was gonna go to hell after I lost my faith. First of all, I lost 95% of my friends. That was one of the most painful experiences. It was during college. I was trying to convert. Oh, I mean, when you left the church. When I left the evangelical Christian church. We need to know any more than that, George, about evangelical Christianity to know that it's bogus. Yeah, yeah. People will give you up because of that, you know, they're being judgmental, which is the key thing that we are not allowed to do. Yeah, it was funny. I was trying to convert one of my professors and it backfired. Get all this, I quit this. Well, so what happened, I'll just tell you, this one interesting thing is he got through to me this idea that, you know, George, I know you are ardent for the truth. You wanna know what is really happening. What's, I was seeking reality, right? I wanna know the truth. So it's like, if you wanna know the truth, you need to be willing, especially at your young age, to be open and learning from other people's experiences. Because if you can't fit a Hindu's experience or a Buddhist or a Muslim experience or a Jewish person's experience, native person, spirituality, you can't fit their experience into your narrow worldview and just say that they're going to hell. You haven't really listened. And- Isn't he wonderful? Well, so yeah, and so he was so smart because he knew that I was, ironically, because of Christianity and because of Christianity, I was ardent for the truth, right? And I also understood the importance of humility and listening and compassion. So he used that against me. So he said, you love the truth and you know the importance of listening. So why don't you listen? Yeah, yeah. And so I started doing that. I started listening to people's different spiritual experiences and I couldn't fit it in. And so I went to use the bookstores in Berkeley into the spiritual side. I'm with the UC Berkeley. I went to use bookstores, look at the spiritual section and that my eyes were open, like, oh my God, there's so much I don't know. And then I lost all my friends. And I didn't really recover my faith until, you know, 20 years or not 20, about 15 years after college, I came across spiritism, which I know you've interviewed some of the representatives on your podcast. And I learned about Chico Javier and about, anyway. So when I started, and then I learned about Gary Schwartz and his book, The Afterlife Experiments, and it blew my mind and, you know, Victor Zammett, all these people you've interviewed and are your friends with and they've written your forwards of your book. And I just, my faith was renewed. And I, and then of course I discovered your podcast and your books. And now it's so amazing. Once I, my faith is like 110% now. Like I know, I know in my bones that this is true. Like, whereas in the past with evangelical, with the mental know these doctrines in order to get into heaven, it was always my mind saying, you better crop this up. If it crumbles, then your identity crumbles. Your friends will leave you. Okay, whereas now I don't need to, it's okay, you could test me all you want. You could throw different things at me because I'm open to listening. Because I know in my bones that, that we're loved, that it's still gonna be okay. We are only love. Yes. You know, and, and so, and so once I, Every time I listen to this fear based. Yeah, and at one side. None of them is real. Right, so the, the sphere of death you talk about, like this base fear that once it left me, then I've really became, was able to make courageous decisions in my business, in my career. And I was able to really be authentic, to really be myself. Yes. Whereas I couldn't before, I was always have to, you know, make sure that I'm in the tribe, make sure I don't get rejected because that's related to the fear of death, you know, in some profound deep, deep way. But anyway, I just wanna thank you for, for your work. But, but let's, let's talk a little about this. So back to that same quote about how we need to be convinced that this is real. You know, I, I like to think sometimes that we're, we're in this giant video game. We put on this virtual reality headset. It's so real. Like sometimes Roberta, I, I walk on the beach, or I walk in nature and I, I actually thank, I say, thank you for all of you who are keeping the simulation so real. And look at all the detail. Look at, look at every grain of sand. This is all being done. This is, this is really amazing work guys, you know, like I, I, it's really, really, really good. Really real. Like it's really real. But so, so what, what, you know, you're saying that that, that fear is spring's negativity, which allows us to grow, right? And encourage and wisdom and, so I wonder sometimes like maybe I, maybe the people who don't believe, maybe it's okay because they're in the game. They're so in the game. They believe it's all true. And so they have to learn to grow without knowing almost the spoiler of, oh yeah, by the way, it's going to be okay at the end. I don't know. I, that, that's my interesting, I know for me, knowing the truth has made me more, much more courageous. But I, but I wonder about how whether it removes it, whether it's a spoiler effect, I guess on people, do you know what I mean? Thank you for your testimony. I thought what you said was really wonderful and I hope a lot of people take it in a benefit from it because you really, you really were seeking. And when you, when you began to find that what you had found when you were in college couldn't be right, you kept seeking and that's a wonderful story. I think that's just wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. You talked earlier about how things are bad now worldwide. That's extreme consciousness negativity. One of the things we've been told by beings at the highest levels of reality is that the consciousness vibration of this planet which needs to be in relatively narrow tolerances between love and fear, fear is the lowest, love is the highest vibration, has gone more too much toward fear. That's why we had all these wars in the 20th century which in turn made the whole, you know, vibrating in fear, hatred, anger, negativity even worse. And at this point, we are in what I would call interplanetary intensive care. We are being kept from getting any lower in our vibration but the awful things happening now are evidence. Not of Armageddon which will never happen but they're evidence that we need, we're basically a sick species. And we need- This is like our dark night of soul. And many people have come in, the oldest of them are my age who have come specifically to work with their guides to raise the vibration of the planet. I mean, why am I when I'm retirement age still working so hard because this is what I signed up for before I was born. And many people, I'm sure you have your role to play too because why are you sitting there when you could be playing a video game or out with friends or all that stuff but you earnestly are trying to teach and help people learn the truth. You're part of the team. And that's, Thomas was pretty discouraged a few years back but I'm told now by him that it looks as if we're going to make this happen. What do we need to make happen? All our minds are part of the same mind that continuously manifests the universe. Didn't wind it up like a wind up toy and walk away but in every instant reality is being recreated. The easiest way to understand it is if you've ever looked at a film strip it's a bunch of little pictures but if you run it through a projector it doesn't look like a bunch of little pictures that looks like moving life, right? The same is true of the reality we see around us. It's continuously being recreated. And what's happening now is that one mind which is composed actually of all our minds and a lot more is working to raise the vibration of everybody on earth. If 10% of the people on this planet will just raise their personal consciousness vibration enough away from fear and toward love everybody will find that they feel more loving even though they don't know why because we are all part of the same mind. And that's what the next stage of my teaching really is. Many people now are teaching about the afterlife. I mean, there's only one set of truths and everybody who searches finds the same truths. So that's why I wrote Liberating Jesus and I didn't write it actually, Jesus did. That's another story. But we need urgently to raise our consciousness vibration. Jesus came 2000 years ago to teach us that. Instead, his teachings were wrapped up in a fear-based negative religion that has nothing to do with the truth and that's Christianity. It's as if this wonderful gift was given to us 2000 years ago when God walked the earth. And rather than it was wrapped in this packaging and for 2000 years we've been entranced by the packaging, that religion. But inside that religion still intact are the greatest, simplest teachings for raising our consciousness vibration we have ever been given. And if we will now open the gift take out those teachings and simply follow them. We can, everybody can make this their last birth lifetime. It's not that hard, it's simple. Wow. That's exciting. That's exciting. We also all help each other to raise our all our consciousness vibrations. That's what's going on in a nutshell. Wow. It's gonna be okay. Okay, let's talk about this and we can finish on this topic of raising our vibration. It's interesting. I work in an industry, business marketing kind of success industry where that phrase raising your vibration is sometimes co-opted to mean success, material success, having more followers, that kind of arena. The famous movie, The Secret, if you've ever heard of that, The Secret, this law of attraction idea where it's like, if you just think about success, think about the things you want, you'll manifest those things and then you fulfilled your purpose in life, according to that kind of thought, it's basically to be a famous, rich person with lots of followers and lots of glamour and lots of fame and all. And the problem with that is some of that truth is mixed in, right? Like there's some truth mixed in. That's why it- That's true. It's some things off, but it's not completely off kind of thing. Because they feel really good. And I know it's so, tell us what you've learned about Jesus' message about raising that vibration. What does it really mean? How do we do it? Well, I think you made some good points we got to talk about. Yes, your mind is very powerful. It's part of the same mind that creates reality. So yes, the secret works. If you use your mind to create a better career, you know, web marriage or whatever, it really does work. It works. That doesn't mean you should be doing ideally, but that's, it works. The problem is that the hardest lesson that we can undertake in coming here is what nobody expects. It's great success and especially great wealth. Because that's a challenge which nobody understands is actually a very negative challenge. If you start just swimming in your money and enjoying your yacht and all that stuff, you absolutely waste your life. And when you get back, you will be horrified. You'll be very upset. During the latter part of the 19th, early part of the 20th century, when we were getting wonderful communication through trans mediums, there were some from a few people who had been in life very wealthy. I mean, one of them I remember in particular was very upset when his family contacted him through a medium. He said, I really thought I could handle it. I really thought I could, but I set myself back so much by allowing the wealth to seduce me. And now I have so much ground to make up. He was very upset with himself. And that's always the case. If you are wealthy right now, you even more than people who have done maybe committed crimes, you need to look at your life and see how you might use that wealth to do what you came to do with it. Ask your guides what you came to do, but you didn't come to use it to make yourself richer and richer. You didn't come to use it to buy that yacht. You came to use it for the good of humankind. That's the only reason you have it. It reminds me of like back to the gym analogy. It's like you go to a gym, you pay for this expensive membership. You're one of the few people that they were able to let in because there's so many people who want to get in. You get into the gym and then you go right to the vending machine. And you go, yeah, I want that. I want that. Those vending machines were meant to be giving you a quick break and giving you some respite before you go back to the machines. But you went greedy and got a lot of vending machine stuff and you're stuffing yourself. And then now you leave the gym more out of shape and sicker when you came in or something like that, I don't know. And by saying this, I don't mean to say you have to be Mother Teresa. No, right, right. But there was one, I remember probably 25 years ago, one of the major companies went public. I don't remember, Google or something. And there were, everybody who was an owner was big time rich. And there was one man who, I don't remember his name, but he would not talk to the press. And he was, everyone knew he was very wealthy. And then they realized he was giving away almost all of it. And then finally someone could talk to him. And what he said was, if I kept more than what my family needs to be comfortable, I could never live with myself. That is a man for whom this is his last earth lifetime. He gets it more than anybody else that I've ever heard who's in a body truly gets it. That is incredible. And it's hearing it. It's like, oh, well, I too would have done that same thing. But it is so hard to resist to say, not only are you gonna, you can buy anything you want, essentially, with this payout kind of thing. And you can keep it. And just in case you might wanna buy something else you want in the future, you better keep it, right? Oh wow, that's profound. But he didn't know all this stuff consciously, but he knew he was already vibrating so high that he just didn't want the garbage we can get on earth for cheap dollars. He wanted instead spiritual growth. He hungered for it. That's what we all do when we're there, but we don't all do it when we're here. Hunger that way. So we'll close with this thought, this idea of how do we raise our vibration? I mean, these are inspiring stories, but do you have anything that helps you or has helped the people that you've talked to? How do we set our purpose? First of all, our purpose is not to gain wealth and fame. Our purpose is to grow in love, right? And learn forgiveness, right? And to grow in wisdom and courage and all the virtues that we feel inspired by. Anything else you can tell us about that true message of Jesus, about how we should live? The fun of growing forever uses the teachings of Jesus in just a few very simple exercises that if you follow those exercises, you will go to a new level of spiritual growth within months. It is that quick. It's not, you don't have to get a guru. You don't have to do chanting. You don't have to do anything complicated. Just follow these simple exercises that Jesus gave us. It amazes me how well it works, but it does. And what did Jesus teach us? Jesus taught us that we should love the Lord our God and love our neighbor as our self. Why? Because he knew your neighbor is yourself. We're all part of the same mind. But to do that, we must forgive. Forgiveness is the hardest lesson. But in fact, the only way really to learn to forgive is to do what we call prebenient forgiveness. Forgiving everything that ever will happen in your life right now. So that nothing else ever bothers you again. You know, somebody does something bad to you. You don't react to it negatively on the inside. That's hard to do. But if you learn prebenient forgiveness, it's easy to do. You'll never, I did all of this 10 years ago. I haven't once been angry no matter what people did. And you know, people do crummy things to other people all the time. I don't get angry anymore. I wanna show people on the screen that particular book. This is the fun of growing forever that you're talking about where these exercises are that you've learned the message of Jesus. And I wanna just show people, and it's come on $4, even if it's $50, whatever it is, it is so worth it. So if you enjoyed this interview, if you wanna learn more and also to support Roberta's work and to support this book getting out there, go to Amazon or wherever you want by this book, The Fun of Growing Forever. I've enjoyed all of her books, actually. I haven't checked out the novels yet, but I will. And also I wanna show people your website. Whoops, I think I, ooh, you know what? Oh, no, I'm sorry, I typed it wrong. It's actually over here. This is correct. All right, and this is your website. It is chock full of amazing messages, both written messages as well as audio messages. And you have videos as well. And there's a forum, et cetera. So check out rebertagrams.com, look up her podcast. But again, get her books. The books are kind of condensed wisdom of all this that she's been studying. And I really enjoyed it. I think it's a bargain for the kind of life change that we have. So thank you, Roberta, for your work. I'm gonna continue to, of course, listen and read your work. And thank you for being willing to show up and do this video interview. I'm so grateful for you. It's been fun and consider yourself hugged, my dear. You do a wonderful, wonderful job. Look at you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Roberta. I'm sure we'll talk again soon. We will.