 It's connected through virtual audio devices to exchange serial data. Yes, that's the way it's handled. But all nice and sleek integrated into one web server that serves a web application locally from your ship to all the devices on board. That's the USP that all of this ship management and Nordic stuff is in there. And the mesh network grows in value over time while the Nordic suite on board is the initial value for the customer to want to have it. Actually, we're giving you an open source ship computer, navigation computer. There's not only the Wi-Fi network, which is important in this concept. You get access to the OpenSea map, for example. You can use other data sources like OpenWeatherMap. All this comes with a box. Yes, you can import other maps and download other expensive maps in the future and use them also. You can have group data and AIS data presented on the same screen as just another map layer, not another device as it's handled today on ship ridges. It's all there. It is all in a pocket. Also important is that we collect the data that your ship collects. So we can actually feed that back into the whole database. I think that's a very good selling point for having Wi-Fi on board. Because otherwise, you would have to transport a USB stick around. It's OK. And the depth track of a ship that hasn't met any other ships during the whole journey will be then transmitted to our servers like the track of depth measurements to our server as soon as that ship is close to shore. And then with the next map update, the depth of the oceans are a tiny bit more detailed. And if you think about it, when you didn't meet anyone, that probably means that track data is rather valuable because no one else will record it in the next time. Yeah. Does that, are these sufficient answers? Would you like to continue or do your questions? Yes, please, go ahead. Is the microphone on? Do you hear me? Get close to the microphone, yes. OK, I think it does not. I think that the most important point in continuing is defining the one thing you want to do. Not saying the system can be extended in that way. We do a mesh network. And then we do a sensor network. And then we do dedicated ships that sail itself over the ocean. And we do a hacker boat where you do hackathons. You need the one thing you want to do. And you say, OK, this is what we will not do. And this is what we do outsource. It's not good like I saw just on the stage. You begin with one idea, and then we can do this. And we can do this. And then there's sensor data. And then there is probably a mesh network. And there's probably a whole ship management computer. That's not how you can get, come to a point. Maybe it was a fail of mine that in the Trek philosophy I presented more of our fails and less of the standard pitches with more of that bundled and more short information. I think also that the failures you presented were quite one-sided, because I followed the website some years. And every time I entered it, it had another business model. You can look it up in archive.org, if you want. It started with that boat. Then there were the autonomous sailing robots. And the mesh network. Briefly in the wiki, yes. Yes, the front page of Chris was not updated yet. Yes, our website sucks, we know. Hard. But the business model on there hasn't changed in the last three years, I think? No. No, not really. OK, not the last three years, but the three years before. Sorry if you didn't hear me. It didn't change the last three years, but probably the three years before. Yeah, and our last idea is on how to tie a business model around this that's actually loved by investors and not liked. Hasn't been put up there yet, because it should be thought through a bit more before we put anything out there and have some calculations ready. So anything else regarding technical details or any other words around sort of the G2 crowdsourcing or very early pre-order? Sorry, I'm not quite sure if I just missed that. Did you mention like the minimum investment you're going for? That entirely depends on what we plan to accomplish. Like in the talk, I quoted the number 4.7 million over the course of three years. That would be some with which you can get a hardware product to the market and have some thousands produced and have some 20, 30, 40 employees to help with the development and making of the product. And yeah, three years of time to put that out there on the market. If we are just going for, OK, let's make a thousand and put them in some geographically confined region, like for example the Baltic Sea or the Florida Keys or somewhere with the identity of boats and somehow geographical in area, we could do that with a lot less. But the calculations I presented were always an answer to the question how much money would you need to produce a sustaining company with enough net income to cover the costs? With 1.5 million or so, we definitely could put out a lot of hardware out there, like a capital of 100 boxes possibly. But that wouldn't be a self-sustaining business model. That would be just a one-off. OK, there's just one other thing I would like to add. I think basically the issue about the crowd sourcing campaign is you have definitely some potential customers, but I think the average ship owner is just like too old to get this concept of online crowd sourcing. So this might be really a issue. I think the average might be like late 40s, 50s, something like that. Good point. Very good point. That's one of our futures will that the target group has just no clue how crowd sourcing works. But on the other hand, sailors are usually technological, not a bit educated, and they do like to have the newest gadgets and stuff on the ship, like a lot of them. Some sailors were like, ah, nobody needs that crap with a compressor and a chart. You can basically get anywhere in the clock. And sure, yes, those more pure sailors will always exist, and that's fine with us. But others do like to have the fancy new stuff that's possible by today. So just one tiny idea, which is just a marketing idea, just for you to consider. I'm coming from Hamburg, and we have this big lake in the middle of the city. How about, and we have all these tiny tourist ships going around there? How about doing a mesh network there, which is completely something completely different. But if you bind it to the name Hacker Fleet, you suddenly are building the brand. And that, again, helps you, for example, for answering the questions about the brand, blah, blah, blah. So it gets, again, gets your visibility. And you might extend beyond that in just a small area. OK. Like, do you have any connections to that organization that runs these boats, or was it just an idea? OK. I can give you some input on what I think you could be doing at this point, just based on what I've heard. Sorry? Get closer to the mic, please. OK, sorry. OK. My input on what you should be doing, based on what I've heard so far, is first, I have to agree with some of the previous speakers here. That is, you need some focus if you really want to run a business around this, because there are so many different ideas. And just to briefly address each of them, the meshing seems to be something that isn't really going to work out there in the ocean, because ships are too far apart. The data downloading, it sounds a bit like the UltraNet, which is another project that is going to offer free internet content downloads via satellites, but free. And the data gathering part that you mentioned sounds similar to a project that has been going on in Japan, where people have been gathering data about radio activity over the last couple of years on their own. And I think that might be closest to what you're looking for, because you mentioned open source and open sourcing the data, and have everyone benefit from that. What they did in Japan is they put build instructions online so people could reproduce those devices, gather data, and they had a single site. That produced a map that proved to be especially useful because it gave more detailed views than the state maps, and people could actually have more trust in that data. And if that's something you're aiming for here, then go for some kind of do-it-yourself plan, where you put up schematics, where you can build up a community that can try out these devices, enable people to do some prototyping here, and forget the business side of it for a start, at least. If you do grow a community over a year or two or so, then you actually might see clear ways for turning this into a business or into a foundation or something like that in the future. But get something working first. And you need the help of others for things like this. So put up do-it-yourself instructions. That would be my advice so far. So I get you right that you would strongly recommend this strategy, that was strategy three, that we would rely on DIY, that we would put out some recommendations, and that we would accept in the beginning very, very slow growth of this that would be a con of that strategy. And in that case, we would only enable those that are willing and able to buy, let's say, a panda board or any other arm-based board online and on VataRot, some TTL changes and some other boards and modules and plug them together on their own into a waterproof box. And for meshing, I mean, this idea was also good here. Like prototypes and meshing, for instance, together with a five-phone community in Hamburg, like in a constrained space, but you can prototype things. To get some of your ideas out there in the wild and test them before you're building up these huge business constructs and opportunity models all in theory, show me some working thing there or help me build it myself. Nice, yes, thanks. That's actually what we started doing with the software right now, not with the hardware yet, but if you consider this and yeah. Yes, so. Let's go through the strategies. Yes, we agree and we are presenting software here right now. Like, we're not presenting the most age, but you can check it out, what we did so far. And yeah, definitely the idea with doing it in a confined city space and like, we had an idea to get a couple of fishermen. Like, we draw, we have drawn density maps of fishing boats because that data is statistically available, which a port of call they belong to. So we made a density map and found out which harbors have the most amount of fishing boats and we're planning to do such a case study there of the same type. But with the platform community in a big city and do it inner city only, yes, now we just need to find out what value we can introduce for the tourist ship operator there and as soon as there is something of a value that's a viable idea to go for. So, but that would also mean that we just need to provide documentation and with that we could focus on the software that we are presenting today. Awesome. Just a small remark, basically most ships stay within 15 miles to the harbour, so I would strongly recommend to stick with the mesh internet idea, yeah. Okay, yes, like. Riot, when you're out and so rumrends, can you buy one for yourself? Anymore, we might. There were some strong opinions for decision number three. Awesome, now let's, yeah, should we rule this one out because we are actually in connection with some ship owning companies and I've talked to some ship owners like big scale and that might be an idea to sell this to either a ship owning company or I haven't written that down there to a shark provider like a company that leases or that leases ship computers to ship owners and promise them to update them and keep them up to date because we have connections to those organisations through ways and but it would force us, may force us to develop some features just proprietary for that company and not being able to put them out on the market and yeah, if it works, then it's also easy access to the industry as well. Are there opinions on that? Is that compatible with our ethics? Okay, I think this is the most doable idea because the companies you think you're talking of have huge amounts of money. Each day, they spend something in order of magnitude margin and usually these companies have, I mean the really big charging companies like Hapakloid don't know how they are called. Probably also some iron ore mines which have their own ships, not the smart boats. It's not by CMACGM, but yes. What? Iron Ores are like 270% handled by CMACGM, that's a picture. Yeah, they're probably the company like this. They probably have research funds and so they have to output this amount of money for never research and probably you can get this so you have to talk to them and then some mid manager can say, ah, I can book this under research and you get the money or I would change the topic to sell yourself to a ship owning company, not the idea. So usually they know how to do ships but they don't know how to do software and electronics so probably they are in the need of this anyway. So going, sleeping with the customers think it's a good idea. Okay, okay. So and what about the ethical question of being an open source company but being bought by a ship owner that might force us to develop some features proprietary? Is that okay-ish? Is that not acceptable? Can I hear some opinions on the ethics of this question? Space cooker, you shake your head. Would you please? I wouldn't think so because an open source project that starts its open source and is given to a big company. You can see some projects being owned by big companies doing really well and contributing back like Red Hat and Fedora for example but it can also go the other way. You can have essentially a two tier system where the proprietary version becomes the only useful thing and the open source version sort of rots and dies and isn't really maintained anymore because you're forced to only develop for the proprietary one because that's obviously the one that gets the money. And to be honest, going into or partnering up with a big company that only thinks about the money aspect first obviously is in my opinion a bad idea because their priorities will be different. So they won't really have the best interest of the mesh network or the project to hacker fleet in mind but rather their income and profits. So I would say it's a too big risk. Yes, it would be very nice money and you would be able to do lots of awesome things with it but it would just be a too big risk for me to say, yeah, sure. Okay, so that might be incompatible with crowdsourcing as well because when one starts as a crowdsourced organization based on donations as your opinions showed and then a year later that thing is partially sold to a ship owner that forces one to develop some proprietary features on top of that. I think that would destroy our positive perception in much the same way than for example, what was that maker bot organization that fucked up so badly there? Yeah, so let me, yeah, support this point of view. When you sell this out to a big company there's so many things that you have to take care of. It's not only the licensing of the open source code, it's the brands, trademarks, it's patents and it's really, really hard to get that right especially if you haven't done that before. So yeah, once you sell out to a company like that, it's really hard to, essentially you, because you are involved in that game, you are out of the game in defending the code because you're dependent on it. And so, yeah, it's okay if it's the only way and I mean, I wouldn't be angry at you if there is no way to get an open source network going anyway because then we are not losing anything but yeah, it would be the last option in mind. Okay, okay, even coming after venture capital with the risk associated that we discussed earlier? Okay, yeah, pretty much the same, the venture capital, yes, agreed. Okay, are there any other opinions on what we should do? Can we maybe have a vote whether you think it's ethical to have some proper territory features and the rest as open source? Who would think that this is okay in our community and who would think that's not okay and that's absolutely corrupt to do so? Okay, yeah, yeah, there's a chance that it might just not work and that there's too much to get proprietary. So I think, thank you for the advisory. You were recommending so the G3, which is relying on DIY hardware for restart and maybe combined with donation-based crowdsourcing. So we can support this and start to go ahead. But in the end, there was a placeholder slide, this one, for your ideas. Are there any ideas how to get this out there that we haven't covered with other strategies that you would like to suggest us? Okay, okay, it's really about it. If you have an idea, contact us. I think, yes, and put the word out there that we're thinking of doing something but we're not sure yet. Microphone for Riot? Oh, yeah. You can contact us by email or join our Hacker Fleet IRC channel on FreeNode. I invite you hereby to join us. And yeah, do we have the links still? Can you put them on from Waffleye or on GitHub? That's another way of collaborating. Yes, well. If you go on the GitHub page, then they read me, there's also contact means. So and do we have the documentator ready by now so we can test this all and try this stuff? Actually, yes, I am working on a live demo on the web but yeah, during the camps and some minor issues popped up. I'm going to publish this soon. So maybe you also watch our Twitter feed and yeah, we're probably going to announce this on the homepage because we need beta testing, obviously. Yes, so we'll just pretend that the internet is one chip and you're connecting with your device to your local chip computer while it's a demo server somewhere with us. But imagine that this would be your chip computer in that case and there will be a Docker version to just install that on your own, if you like. You can obviously also install it manually but the Docker version is really nice, takes just a few minutes. Any questions or remarks? We have plenty of time left. I mean, we need to stretch it to the end but if you'd like to say something, go ahead. No, so thanks a lot for your input. I gather that we should be going with donation-based crowdsourcing combined with very good recommendations and documentation on how to DIY the hardware side of things. And yeah, then marketing projects like putting demo installations in big cities and not like in coastal regions like Hamburg. That sounds like a good plan to go with. So I think this experiment of management by crowd was successful, yes? Yeah, thanks for your input. We're going to evaluate this once we have the recording, hopefully. And thanks for being here. Yes, so we will be having some drinks with you, I think, because this is an unreleased party, numbers don't mean anything, but because it's integration, but you're all here, so let's drink beer. Thanks. Thank you.