 Welcome to a new episode of the network state podcast today I'm here with sender and a minister from the Marshall Islands as well as an entrepreneur Who's helped go and get their new crypto law up and running? It's a DAO law that allows you to essentially build an interface between an on-chain entity and You know the off-chain legal system. I made a small investment in this company my DAO That's kind of a agent that'll help you get set up, but they've been operating under their own power for a while They've set up more than a hundred DAOs in the Marshall Islands and with me today is Adam Miller Minister Joe Bajong and Senator David Paul all of the Marshall Islands and they're gonna talk to us today about the The new Marshall Islands DAO law so Minister sender Adam. Let's go. Yes, sir. Yeah way My name is Joe Peja, and I'm the newly appointed Minister of Justice Immigration and Labor here in the Marshall Islands. My name is David Paul I am the current chairman for the Appropriation committee we also have here Adam Miller and Adam can you introduce yourselves? Hey everyone? My name is Adam Miller, and I've been into crypto and web3 for a while But DAOs are really my gem, you know I really believe that DAOs are gonna change the way we organize everything on earth people resources and So my mission in life now is to help bring DAOs to the world And the way I'm doing that today is collaborating with the government of the Marshall Islands to create web3 and DAO legal and regulatory frameworks That are better than what exists everywhere else in the world Yes, awesome, and that's why we're actually here today because there's a number of crypto entrepreneurs founders investors who are looking for good jurisdictions to operate and The Marshall Islands set up a new law that may make it actually very competitive So, you know just before we get there Maybe we can just put the Marshall Islands on the map kind of help people know where it is So it's located in the Pacific Maybe we could put up a map on screen and great and sender, you know, mister Do you want to talk about the Marshall Islands tell people who've never been there what it's all about the Marshall Islands is located like 2,400 miles southwest of Hawaii and Is right in the middle between Hawaii and Australia the Marshall Islands is is close to about a million square kilometers of ocean territory But the land mass is only the size of Washington, DC So you can imagine is where we're a we maybe call a small island nation But we're a big ocean state, you know, it's tropical all year round and you know, the Marshall Islands has over 24 Atolls within the Marshall Islands the jurisdiction of the Marshall Islands and the population is around in in countries, maybe around 43,000 but total Marshall is globally I would say over 80,000 so it's a very small country and Is in you know close and freely associated states with the United States and independent country But in close and free associated with the United States Awesome, and you know that million miles of ocean Puts you near, you know, several other Pacific Islands like Palau. I think is nearby Micronesia right and some of the other Pacific Islands that are also independent states your neighbors That's good. Also to look at it between Hawaii and Australia The thing is as a full sovereign state as a UN member You can set your own policies You have passed a new law that law is potentially quite interesting for Crypto folks around the world the the new Marshall Islands Dow Law And maybe Adam or or send her maybe you can kind of talk about this. Tell us what it's about at a high level I'll I'll just kick it off and then I'll invite the minister to make a comments and then I'll have Adam to You know expound on on it, but basically back in 2022 we enacted what we called the decentralized autonomous organization act of 2022 Which is the dollar we call it a dollar. I mean RMI is not no stranger to To the the web 3 initiative back in 2017 or 2018. Sorry, we The parliament actually passed the first ever So the self-isolation which is make soft as the the soft means sovereign as the Legal tender for the Marshall Islands as a cryptocurrency Now the law is still in the books But we have not yet implemented because of many regulatory of implementation challenges we thought that the passage of these the soft law Taught us so much about crypto the web 3 and all of that you can imagine during that time when when we were passing a people were Actually googling what is crypto currency in real town while we were having a national debate On the floor of the parliament and people were basically googling and trying to understand and That was I don't understand what does cryptocurrency means and it was a unique Filed moment in the history of the country because you know everybody was just trying to understand. What does the? The blockchain technology is all about and then here we were at that time passing a Resolution and my god when we passed it we got so much Criticism from like the likes of the World Bank the IMF the Asian Development Bank even the United States Treasury There they thought that we were like, you know, we went broke Basically, they thought that we were we were losing our minds and we were losing on grip on reality But four eyes at that time we said no we knew that was the future now fast forward to today When we went we went back to the United the World Bank Last year in October the only thing that they were talking about was digital currency, you know is easy You know three years later four years later People were now talking about, you know staple coin digital currency not so much crypto, but I mean yeah is within the same Ecosystem right but the fact that we were ridiculed we they thought that we were crazy But now everybody's talking about it's now a become part of the mainstream So that's why we have we have I vote for the for the autonomy at least centralized autonomous Organization act of 2022 and we're gonna build on it But the reason why the the minister of justice is part of this is because he's the one that is actually enforcing this thing Well, first of all, that's awesome And can you tell us, you know the saw of law was 2018? Is that right saw of stands for store of value or Can you tell tell us what that was? That was like a building block for the the Dow law that you've just passed the saw of ways is Is is unredeemable It's unredeemable, but it's also a legal tender in the Marshall Islands. There's nothing backing it up. It's basically the the perceived value of it and and actually the the what really actually Gave valid to it is actually the technology behind it But so that's how the soft concept came about So we didn't want it to make it as if there was a if it was redeemable because you know Like the dollar is not redeemable So we wanted to make sure that it is no different than any other currencies of the world, you know, so So we were not far from, you know What other countries that have their own currency were doing but it was actually in a digital format, so to speak Very interesting So basically you're very one of the very first to do that and you know El Salvador and you know US states like Wyoming and Tennessee and so on have also passed, you know cryptocurrency and Dow related laws So that's actually happened after that saw of law and so you're one of the first sovereigns in the world to do that That's really cool. So that brings us to today. I think that's actually really awesome history And you know one thing that I was interested in is how did you have the Energy to be a start-up country because as a small country the good thing is you're nimble and in theory You can come to consensus with the relatively small number of people you can make decisions you can adopt new technologies However, you've also got big neighbors and you've got the World Bank and all these folks who'll yell if you do something Too interesting right as you mentioned. So how did you kind of get the energy to be kind of a start-up country? What how did that happen? So like the Marcellese people were navigating That's cool. Yeah, you got you are pioneers to get all the way out to the middle of the islands there, huh? He's an odd DNA. That's cool. So that's interesting. It may be interesting for other kind of tech things in the future I don't know self-driving car cities or things like that. That's actually really interesting I should visit actually in fact everybody watching this video should probably go and should they visit the Marshall Islands Yeah, absolutely Awesome. Are there cruises there? How do you get there? Is it plain? Well, how do you travel there if you wanted to go there? Well, we have only one airline servicing here in the Marshall Islands, and that's the United Airlines You can come via that that airline and then visit the other islands with our domestic flights We have a domestic airline Air Marshall Islands You could visit all these beautiful small islands or on the the other smaller it solves in the Marshall Islands Or by boat. Go ahead. Yeah, yes Hey, Alaji Let me let me tell you also something that we're also working on that You'd be very interested to know and your audience will be will know about this What we're trying to we're trying to do what we call an NFT of all these islands There's so many islands in the Marshalls over thousands of islands. We're trying to do an NFT on them So we can digitize these assets these are idle asset there and we can actually you know put it out in the in the Web3 wait, so so would you just be buying like a digital? You know art representation art representation of the island or would you actually be buying the island itself? Not well not buying it, but actually leasing it. Oh really? That's interesting. Wow. Okay, so You have my attention That there's this there's this great site actually which we could put up called I think it's like private islands online Let's you know, let's cover the the Dow Law just for a second and then come back to the private islands because I've actually mentioned both So the Dow Law you guys just passed that last year 2022, okay? Adam you put that on screen. So tell us tell us about that Yeah, absolutely. So, you know first of all why do laws matter in Web3, right? A lot of people might say well, we're building a censorship resistant You know subversive revolutionary system and that's fine that some people are working on that But the fact is that most Web3 Products and most dows are just trying to follow the law, right? They need the same benefits that other organizations get when they create legal entities like the protection From unlimited liability for their members and the ability for the project to own property, right? To own its own name own its own logo, right and be able to assert those property rights So dows and Web3 projects need those things to the problem with legacy laws almost every law everywhere in the world relating to legal entities Require organizations to do things that no Dow wants to do and no Web3 project wants to do So that's things like requiring all of the members to disclose their real names and physical addresses I mean right there you lost 95% of dows right if not more they require traditional boards and management teams Which usually dows don't want with some exceptions They require paper record keeping even if it's like email and PDF record keeping dows Don't want to do that because all the records already exist on the blockchain Right governments are trying to enforce dated securities laws and apply concepts like traditional securities to governance tokens and even just generally, you know not allowing you to perform critical functions like voting and meetings on chain So what we've done in collaboration with the Marshall Islands is pass this new law that you're talking about and it starts with very Basic things and I have this up on the screen, but just defining. What is a blockchain? What is a digital asset? Right? What is a Dow? Right so that you can then include these things in the nature of how you govern and regulate these organizations Importantly this clause I have up on the screen Simply says that dows can be limited liability companies and we call them Dow LLCs But this is the line that gives dows all the protections that most companies get very easily by the law This clause in the law is about management So just saying that an algorithm can manage an organization instead of having a traditional management team, right? That is so powerful. That's what so many dows are trying to do with smart contracts things like a membership interest Right so in it in most dows and web 3 projects There's some kind of tokenized membership interest whether it's an NFT whether it's one person one vote or one token one vote But to acknowledge in the law that you can have a governance token, right? And the purpose of that governance token can be to represent your voting rights or your economic interest if it's a for-profit in The organization right in the project and finally rights to information so traditional LLCs a Member or the government or anyone could come to you and say I want a copy of all the organization's records And you'd have to provide them with a PDF or a binder full of records and so our law in this clause and others Fixes that by saying as long as you're keeping all of your records on an open and public blockchain You don't have to furnish your records in any other way So these are just examples of some of the clauses that are in the law But it's just these basic things that say look here's how traditional organizations did things Here's how web 3 organizations do things and therefore Allowing those things to happen in these new web 3 organizations well, I love this because You know, I often talk about you know, there's the fiat currency to cryptocurrency interface that turned out to be more important and profitable than anybody ever thought with the fiat currency to cryptocurrency exchange Concept I've often thought and actually we're in the middle of this now that you're gonna have the fiat identity to crypto identity exchange that's kind of what Palau is doing with its rns.id or you have the fiat company to crypto company exchange or interface And that's kind of what you've set up and some other jurisdictions are exploring because there's no reason to Have piece of paper represent something if you can actually have it in code For example, if your votes can be on-chain well, they're cryptographically signed. They're recordable It's a data structure. You can program against it and you don't have to have just reams and reams and reams of paper And so this makes a ton of sense logically and I'm really glad that there is places kind of pioneered this And so now we can actually have an on-chain representation of a company that is fully legally compliant Yeah, and not only that but I'll just add that dows are much more transparent and they have much more guaranteed Compliance than traditional companies. So, you know, some people might react to this the same way they react to cryptocurrencies with fear With oh, you know, couldn't this be used for criminal activity? But the Marshall Islands and our company and we share the compliance obligation Actually have way more visibility into all of these dows than any government has into any other company on earth So it's it's really a win-win, right where people get to do what they want to do on-chain with these web3 projects And the government can make sure that there's no illegal activity happening because every transaction is recorded on chain That's great. Yeah, and I mean the big thing about this is Simply that concept of what that interface looks like and how On-chain things become at first you mirror things on chain and then the mirror becomes the primary It's kind of like, you know, the New York Times for a long time Obviously was just a piece of paper and Right and then they had a New York Times website and those existed for a while And now you could say the website is primary and the paper is very secondary And I think you're one the first to start making the on-chain entity Be a full companion and peer to the to the paper entity and eventually in 10 or 20 years Or who knows and that becomes like primary. So what you know when you pass this When did you pass this in 2022 June or ish November November? Okay, so just a few months old less than a year old right now Yeah, have you set up any entities under this structure so far? Yeah, almost a hundred entities. Oh Really? Okay. That's great. Yeah, and what is the what's a procedure if if somebody were to want to go and set one up What are the costs with it? Where do they go and so on and so forth? Yeah, so And I'll throw a slide up with some QR codes even we have a guide to Dow incorporation That actually not only helps you if you want to be in the Marshall Islands But it helps you think through Should you incorporate your dow should you incorporate your web 3 project and where right because every situation really is different But if you want to register a Dow LLC in the Marshall Islands, you reach out to my dow. It's at my dow org It's M. I. D. A. O. Org and we can also connect you and your project with our partner network of over 300 vetted Web 3 lawyers and that's actually a really common challenge that we hear projects having is finding the right web 3 lawyer With the right Jurisdictional expertise whether it's Marshall Islands, whether it's Europe whether it's United States or more than one and the right expertise to help you solve The particular challenges that you have so we can also help get people connected at no charge with with good web 3 lawyers Awesome, that's cool. And if you go back one slide, there was something on kind of the advantages of the Marshall Islands if you go back one so do you want to speak to this like so of course, you know Crypto entrepreneurs are global they can go all over the world You know, why should they go and use the Marshall Islands over, you know came in or something like that? Yeah, absolutely So there are clear advantages over came in BVI Switzerland USA and other jurisdictions The USA is an easy one and people who listen to your podcasts will know that the USA is not a friendly Jurisdiction for web 3 and in fact, it's not a friendly jurisdiction in a number of ways Right and so it's almost obvious why you wouldn't want to base your dower web 3 project in the United States And it's just about the fear of what the federal government is going to do even if you have a Wyoming Dow LLC Which is a very innovative thing that they've done very similar to what we've done the problem is you're in the United States So that's the issue with the US when it comes to every other jurisdiction in the world So came in BVI Swiss they offer foundations and corporations and trusts and all of these corporate structures have boards and officers and When you have boards and officers that creates it's not only just kind of against the principle of Decentralization to to many of us in web 3 but it creates a target for regulators and law enforcement to go after that board Right, it could be the founders It could be some other group of people all of a sudden you're not really decentralized And so you might get in more trouble with the SEC when they say well Is there a central group of people that you're relying on to get a return on your investment? So there's no Dow LLC anywhere else in the world other than the Marshall Islands and the United States So if you want to be offshore and you want to Dow LLC, you have to come to the Marshall Islands And by the way, Dow LLCs are not just for dows So, you know, not everyone loves the term Dow and a lot of crypto projects have multiple entities Right, you might have an entity in the US and the BVI in the Marshall Islands So any web 3 projects can usually take advantage of a Dow LLC as some part of their ecosystem And that's something we can help people think through. We're also working on a new laws So we've actually passed two laws so far in the Marshall Islands The first was actually in 2021 and the Dow Act built on that and we have more that we're working on in the pipeline laws and regulations to continue to Help the Marshall Islands be the best place in the world and the only sovereign nation that truly recognizes the nature of Dows and web 3 so you are kind of crypto first is one way of thinking about it And you're not retrofitting an existing structure on to crypto You really have thought about it from scratch to to kind of merge with with how Dows actually are the law is meeting where the projects are You know to your earlier point a One way of thinking about what we do is it's a legal bridge between web 2 and web 3, right? It's for web 3 projects that need to bridge over to the Treadfy world the web 2 world And the way we do that actually is by customizing the LLC So this these Dow LLCs are limited liability companies That just have slightly different treatment under the law in all the ways that really matter to web 3 right like again Not having a board not having to keep paper records things like that. So so it is a Piggybacking on the LLC, which is the most common legal entity in the world By far the most popular And that's because we want these Dows to have all the same benefits to be able to open a bank account open an exchange account All right a lot of our Dows are doing things like opening bank accounts because they might want to sponsor an event that doesn't take crypto or Get paid by a sponsor that only has fiat currency Well, let's talk about that for a second. So is Marshall Islands a good spot for a crypto company to open a bank account? So The Marshall Islands banks are not yet open for business for web 3 and crypto companies And I mean the minister could could maybe speak to this in more detail But Marshall Islands entities so actually, I mean, maybe the minister could talk about this But for a long time the Marshall Islands has been one of the most popular Jurisdictions for shipping companies to register. So there are about 50 Publicly traded companies on Nasdaq and New York Stock Exchange that are Marshall Islands companies And so unless you're in the shipping industry or you may have seen the Marshall Islands flag, which is on boats all over the world You may not know it But this is a tried-and-true destination and so banks all over the world will accept Marshall Islands companies including Dow LLCs to open an account. Well, yeah, I mean the Arab you you touched on the the ship registry and the corporate registry the banking sector in the Marshall Islands has always been Opponent of anything that has to do with crypto. No is no secret that, you know Once crypto or digital currencies are gonna be becoming a dominant force Then it will actually render these banks redundant because then because in most that the the idea of digital currencies is Is is peer-to-peer So it will cut out the middleman, which is other banks because they might make money on the on the transaction cost and fees So they've always been an opponent of Anything that has to do with digital currency or crypto currency and so forth So at this point in time these established banks in the Marshall Islands. There are anti crypto Or digital So so does that mean that we have half of the solution working? Which is the company solution, but the banking piece isn't yet there or how should we think about that? No, you just have to use other banks. So we have Dow LLC clients that have bank accounts in Europe in the United States in Dubai So we have service providers that can help dows set up bank accounts and some have just done it on their own They just apply for an account at mercury or western alliance bank We had someone had an account at signature that obviously got got shut down So you just have to use the global banking system, even if you're a marshall islands entity Let me also jump in on that because if you look at the corporate registry program that we have we do have We're registering a corporation That are not sourciling the marshall islands But they are registered under the corporate registry program that we established under our laws So if there is going to be anything to educate any dispute among the members Of the corporation that the resident of marshall islands marshall islands jurisdiction and marshall island laws and marshall island court system Are going to be the one educating these disputes Because they are registering our jurisdiction It is not different than what we're trying to do with respect to With the with the DAO when we when we have the DAO legislation in year meaning that they are Are domiciled In the marshall islands under our laws. Do you uh, you know, would you be able to award licenses? for example to to somebody like banking licenses, but you know, if banks You know if if You know your sovereign country you passed a law on this if somebody wanted to become a bank Uh, could they potentially become a crypto friendly bank and set up in the marshall islands? Is that a possibility? So I I could speak to this because we've had this conversation with the banking commissioner in the marshall islands And they're open to it But first um, they're looking to to my doubt to help them Draft the regulations under which that type of activity would occur. So currently vasps and banks are not Supported at least as DAO LLCs in the marshall islands But I should clarify that there is a distinction between the DAO and a protocol Right. So if a protocol does defy that doesn't make you a vasp in the marshall islands The marshall islands of vasp would be someone who's actually setting up a bank or an exchange Or something like that and to my knowledge the banking commissioner is open to it But only once we help draft a new regulation No, so let me let me jump in on that. Let me just make it clear that So no nobody's can choose about it marsh digital assets or digital currency or whatever you Or the vases are not They're not that they're they're not the uh, they're not illegal In the marshall islands. They're not out a lot They are allowed, but they're the problem is we still have to develop the regulations of proper regulations for them to be regulated But as far as them registered, of course, they can come we're open for business They have to go through the process of getting registered But then they'll be have to be reviewed by the the authorities But no one is stopping them But there's gonna have to be But they will say well, we need to develop the regulations before The regulatory frameworks before we can allow you to start operating in our jurisdiction So right now we're working on an amendment to the dow act as well as a dow regulation That makes it doesn't add any new rules, but makes it really clear to dow's Exactly how to follow all the laws of the marshall islands and actually provides them with other benefits Even in the other in the jurisdictions where the founders or other members reside just by categorizing things a certain way You don't have to fly to the marshall islands. That's why we have an office there It's the registered agent. So my dow is your registered agent You don't have to fly there. You might want to because it's beautiful But uh, basically we have variable pricing for a dow's of different sizes So usually there is a conversation that someone from our team has with the dow or representatives of the dow To figure out what's the model that works best for them Oftentimes they have questions, you know, most people starting dow's are new to dow's because dow's are new And so we do offer not legal advice but business advice for dow's that ask questions about everything from what technology to use to What are common structures or common challenges that other dow's are facing? And then again, we also get them connected with Lawyers in our partner network when they need actual legal advice or tax advisors and and things like that So it's not just a form. Usually there's a bit of it's kind of a consultative Process where we help you Through everything that's right. So our clients interface with my dow directly and then we interface with the government on their behalf They don't have to have a management team So we refer to the initial members of the dow as the group of people that is forming the dow And that can be as few as one person and it could be a founder But it doesn't have to be or it could be the entire dow forming it together all at the same time There are kyc requirements for any beneficial members. We call them because these are especially with non-profit dow's These are members not owners And so for a non-profit dow llc any or for profit anyone who has 25 percent or more governance rights And any managers have to do kyc. But often that's one or zero people, right? So it's it's whoever does want to be that person who's Interfacing with us and I think in one of our draft regulations. We call that person a representative agent So there will be a form for someone to fill out to say i'm the person you should You know talk to on behalf of the dow. It doesn't give you any additional legal liability It doesn't give you any power over the dow It's just a matter of process that we need someone to to deal with we need a a phone number An address an email address just in case we need to reach out Got it. Okay. And so llc's are actually well suited for this because they have lots of members potentially and So you could have lots of symmetrical members and members of the dow So it's sort of a scaling up of lc's as you mentioned Yeah, and a lot of llc's also have membership interests already Which is a way of dividing governance rights and or economic ownership In a in a more nuanced way So for example, a lot of our dow's are one token one vote dow's And the way we construct that is that each token represents one membership interest And then you do you have proposals where there's a quorum of you know 25 percent of the membership interests And you need 51 percent of the people voting of the membership interests voting to carry a proposal And so we're really tying these new web three concepts to just like you said llc concepts that have been around for a long time And can you name some of the most Interesting dow's that you've seen like any that have publicly called themselves marshal island dow's Yeah, sure. And the nice thing is that a lot of these dow's have everything public on the internet and on chain. And so, you know, anyone can go see this information But we have moon dow, which is the dow that I think has already sent people into space Crypto Mondays is a global meetup community in over 50 cities around the world that A lot of folks have probably heard of Admiralty dow. So that's the dow for the clipper exchange, which is a top 100 You know defy a platform. Those are some good examples So that was great hearing from adam on kind of You know On how my dow is facilitated it and gotten a hundred something dow is set up. I know You know, both uh, both you and the sender have been working on this You mentioned you had some remarks that uh had been prepared just a few few points. I wanted to convey and some of them are just reiteration of what um sadder fall had mentioned earlier and it's uh, I just wanted to bring up how The government is in full support of the the the law that was passed it went through the proper and thorough process as as As any laws go through the parliament And when it reached the the parliament, um It was unanimously decided that uh to to be tasked And as I if I remember correctly, um All that were in attendance all the members of parliament that were in attendance were We did voted yes that the law should be passed except for one if I remember correctly I just wanted also to convey that um, we see this as an opportunity and we've been exploring means and ways that we could uh establish a stable economy for the for the rmi given that we're Other than the financial assistance that we were receiving from from the us under the compact agreement we have with the us We're mostly covered by water. So our resources is basically mainly uh marine resources And given our current situation with uh, cannot uh, sorry about climate change low lying islands and we're currently the front for front liners to the changes of our climate change and we see that it would be Given the high rise in the rising level of water cc level and the rising temperatures would affect the marine life and surely in the future might affect our our resources in and marine resources So by saying that I'm just trying to uh, convey our governments Our thinking of trying to explore means and ways of Trying to establish a stable economy given we're a small island to one of the states and my thought is that we see it's It's a perfect opportunity for us to to explore and look into the future to obtain a A steady stream of revenue for rmi So we're we're in full support of the my thought uh, the government of the public of the marshal avids and Like you thought it was mentioned that we have a ship registry, which is uh, I you very remember correctly you got certainly raking in uh, second or third In ship registry rankings, uh, and we definitely see my dollar which we also would would be Would benefit the economy of the rmi Well, that's actually a great precedent Because you know a ship can be registered anywhere and if the marshal islands is a top ship registry This is like a cloud registry for all of these You know on-chain entities which could be in theory registered anywhere and so you registered them there That's actually pretty interesting The law of the sea things like that that's cool. Um, and uh, sender. Did you have anything? Uh, that uh You were gonna say You know just to Complement what the minister alluded to earlier and what adam actually emphasized On our quest to be the premier jurisdiction globally Uh for dows and we see that the digitization of our Our our financial sector our economic sector Uh and even technology Is is really the future so You know, if you really look at where we are we are such a small Our small island countries a small island country in a fiscal setting, but With the digitization of all these Sectors that I I mentioned it is really an equalizer so to speak because then It there's really no excuses for us to be say they We we're at the end of the global supply chain We are at the mercy of the global supply chain of goods and services But with the with with the technology of the web 3 and all that stuff That actually is an equalizer that everybody's on the same equal footing so to speak Uh, so we actually The advantage that we have we're very small or we're very agile and we can actually Uh have a Short turnaround time to to be able to amend our laws and our regulations so we can be We got gator for these uh Uh these organizations Uh on the web 3 I I say that uh, that is going to be our advantage and and and you know Our size could be used As an advantage for us in in the traditional settings of Economies and finance where our sizes really are disadvantaged Because we lack the economy of scale But with with uh with technology Sizes our advantage because you're nimble and and you can do things even if uh, even if folks don't You can get to consensus much much sooner than many other countries I'd love in particular if there was an island that was large enough that you might be able to set up A self-driving car zone or something like that just to kind of show it can be done You know Are they are they just are they just a little like piece of rock in the middle of the ocean? Oh, yeah, there they can be 10 acres Land they could be No, they're actually land they're like private land where you can like like Richard Branson who bought his own island in the Caribbean Actually, you can actually lease your own island and develop it and have your own uh exclusive island for yourself Or a resort Wow, okay, wait So you can get a 10 acre island in the in the Marshall Islands And then of course you have to go and build the harbour and the dock And you have to be able to get people back and forth and so on and so forth or or just some of them come with that No, no, it's up to you. You what we're trying to do is when we digitize these islands because we're because you know we're trying to uh Put it in the smart contract and by doing that We're digitizing the lease of that island and then you go have access to an island by to yourself Let's say for 50 years 400 years Whatever you and then how do you it's like a one-stop shop. So you don't have to come to the Marshall Islands and actually Go through the legal process of acquiring a land We will do all of that and put it into an nft and when you buy the nft You're actually buying the lease and have rights exclusive rights to that island to yourself For the next 50 to 100 years That's really awesome. What is the biggest island like that that you're selling? Or nft ang leasing I should say well It is different. I mean the island then the island that I always I was going to use it as uh, as uh You know as you start with It's like a prototype Is is like three acres three to five acres something like that Of land and is it is it? I mean the Marshall Islands. It's a million square meters I think you said or million square miles of ocean So is that Near one of the main islands or how should we think about that? Is it all the way out there? Is it near one of the main ones? like uh So or how should we think about that? Are they all nearby or they all kind of scattered around the the ocean? Yeah, it's one of the is in one of the Is on quite a lot at all that's where the united states military bz is one of the Is one of the urban centers But by the way, the Marshall Islands is one of the most popular tourist destinations for the richest people in the world They take their yacht and they park next to one of these mostly uninhabited islands And have some of the best snorkeling and scuba diving in the entire planet Basically with your own private island just for that week Right, so especially for anyone who has a yacht then you don't even have to deal with some of the challenges of flying in and Having to build your own cabin on your own private island. Just stay on your yacht Well, maybe a dow could lease a yacht or something like that. That's really interesting Yeah, there's got to be a yacht dow already Yep, that's probably true. I think that that basically covers it. So just to kind of uh recap, um You pass a new law in 2022 it enables basically a fiat company crypto company interface for Lcs and lc like entities aka dows. It's crypto native. It has full support of the government It sort of extends what you've already done with your successful ship registry This is not your first crypto law. You've actually been involved in this space for almost five years now Which is eternity and in crypto years and about a hundred entities have already been set up And uh, people want to learn more then go to uh, I think my dow.org Uh, so uh senator minister, do you have any uh closing words anything, uh, you want to say? Well, we just wanted to thank you for the time and we're really glad to be part of your Outcast and looking forward to uh, of a future encounter Wonderful, great. And we'll come and visit the Marshall Islands and uh, maybe buy Maybe buy an island or something. All right, wonderful. Thank you senator. Thank you minister. Thank you adam Thank you. Bellagio. Okay. Well, thanks guys. This is great. Thanks for coming on