 Now security concerns in the South East are raised even more as the House of the E-Must-E-Government hoping to be more visa-tagged. And former Speaker of the House of Representatives, Yakuza Degara, tells us there are consequences of choosing the wrong leaders in 2023. But these is plus politics and I am just in academia. Over the weekend, the House of the E-Must-E-Government hoped Uzodema was attacked and set on fire by gunmen. The Commissioner for Information Declan Eme Lumba said a few casualties were recorded after security men on guard replied or repelled the attack. Now these incidents are led to the various violent events that have taken place in the southeastern part of the country. Now joining me to discuss this is Kisinga Ikou, who a public affairs analyst and Dixit Osaji security expert. Good evening to you gentlemen. Many thanks for joining us and plus politics and plus TV Africa. Let's just start this right. I just want to get your quick impression concerning the attack on the E-Must-E-Government House that's hoped Uzodema. What does all of this tell you? Let me start with you, Kisinga. First of all, I would say it is a crisis of leadership and lack of trust and communication because part of the duties of the governor of the state is to be the chief security officer of the state. Let me butt in, Kisinga. Why is there lack of trust and communication on whose part? Who's not trusting who here and who's not communicating? Of course, a lot of attacks have happened and we seem not to have resolved it. When they attacked at the heart of the government house here in Uri, you had our governor, you had the President Buarisi, it was caused by AIPOP. Then the police said it was AIPOP and our governor said, no, it was political detractors and while we are yet to resolve that puzzle, then we now saw the recent attack in the house of the governor. So for us, for me, I believe it demands a multifaceted approach to solving the problem. We need to unravel who are these people? Who are these people attacking military and security formations in the states? What is their agenda? What do they want? We have to identify them first. Let us agree on the intelligence that is coming. The governor blames political detractors on the one side, the security agencies who we fear have the intelligence, say it is this group. So for now, we have not gotten it right from what we hear from the government house of human states and from there, it is when we have now identified the problem that we can begin to talk about the solution. All right, thank you, Kissinger. Let me get to Dickson Osage for a minute now. Dickson, you are a security expert. There seems to be a whole lot going on behind the scenes. Kissinger talked about trust, issue of trust and communication but right now, who do we even hold responsible for this particular attack? Like he rightly said, the governor came out to say that the I-POP is not responsible for the attack. The former IGP is saying that the attacks in the Southeast are done by the I-POP, the ESN and all of that. Then again, in the wake of all of this, the stand of the British government are offering asylum to the I-POP members and not so long after that, the army comes out and says they have killed some I-POP commander. So what do we make, what sense can we make out of all of this? Well, we make no sense, you know, because first of all, let me address the area of Governor Hopu Zodima. I think he needs to calm down because the expert is assuming the position of an I-POP of Amos State for all the new investigation police officers because it is detrimental to the survival of intelligence gathering when a number one citizen of the state will come on air and release information upon the investigation that has not been concluded. When we talk about investigation reporting, you must go through the initial reports then followed by progress reports, followed by special reports before final reports. Now when the number one citizen of the state comes on air to start confirming the people or the group of criminal elements that carry out such attacks, that simply implies that he is giving a final report and I will advise him to call back to his security advisor to advise him properly in releasing information to the public. Now going back to the incident that happened in his hometown, you see the problem we have here in our whole country, we don't prioritize risk. If you don't prioritize your risk, you cannot apply mitigation factors. We all understand that Amos State has been going through some form of attack and I would like to inform you that when you begin to experience such kind of attack on military targets, on civilian targets, that tells you that a new terrorism has been born and if a new terrorism has been born, what I have expected the military to do and the federal government to do is not to respond to military minds, that was the mythic they made in the uproar of Boko Haram sending in the military without giving the police an opportunity to try and fail because we must give the Nigerian police the opportunity to try and fail, try and fail and try and fail. And the military can come on board, but here in any given situation, the military will just rush on board, carry out bombings, carry out shooting. Military might anywhere in the world can never be the first response in terrorism. I think the state government should calm down, carry out a risk assessment of what is happening, then they'll be able to prioritize the additional factors. Alright, I want to really get your assessment because you mentioned something that just struck me. You said a new terrorism. Would you label the attacks on the parts of the southeastern state in recent times as terrorism? Would you also say there is a link between the series of attacks on security formation and of course on the emo state governor's house and other southeastern states? Would you say they're interlinked? Well, for me, I think that's strategic because when criminal elements begin to attack military formation, what they're trying to do is to psychologically demoralize the military because if you don't psychologically demoralize the military, they will not succeed in their operations. So I find that those recent attacks and these attacks are so frequent, you know, and the criminal are, you know, progressing in their various attacks on the locations. So for me, I think it's a new bet. It's a new bet, a new bet, a new terrorism as involved. But I will advise the southeastern governor to come on board too quickly and need to be on the board because if they don't do that, I am afraid the perception will be a very different perception because people just felt that they can attack any British formation, attack any police formation and these people are killing their own brothers. They're just sisters. All right, thank you. Akisiga, let's bring you back onto this discussion. You have heard what Dixit Osaji says, his assessment, and he said that a new terrorism has been birthed. Let me get your candid opinion really right now in all of this that there are talks of, you know, 50 columnists in the offering between security organizations. They are talks that they are the ones perpetrating the violence in the Southeast and that is why it has actually spiralled out of control. How do you reason all of that? This is very true. You know, injustice everywhere is a major cause of this kind of civil strife. You know before now, I-POP had existed. Let me give you, there have been agitations. This is, you have seen what is happening all over the country. The country is now resting. A lot of people are now coming out. This is a result of all the agitations that has piled up which the leadership of the country at the various levels have continued to frustrate. Your citizens will be talking. You don't want to listen to them. You don't want to listen to the voices of your citizens. You believe everything is military. Let me give you an instance. There was a time when the Southeast would always cry at any agitation people would just do a rally or demonstration. They would militarize everywhere. You know, create those checkpoints that would be very tight for our vehicular movement to show us that we are a conquered people. You would be looking at the checkpoints that the Southeast is even medicated. If there was war going on. But that was mere demonstration and the carrying of placas and rallies. They may say, yes, we want a country. We want our own country. But of course, they said that we are peaceful. But what the military will respond in is they will respond with violent force. And there was a time when groups would say you are killing our people. The government did not make any effort to investigate them. So the soldiers were given a wild card to kill as much as they want as long as they are members of a particular organization. Nobody questioned. Our president does not even pretend to set up a committee of inquiry. The National Assembly does not set up a committee where they hear that one or two youths of this country has been murdered. And you do this over a long period of time. You begin to toughen up the citizens. And what have we seen? We have seen a situation. We as citizens now directly confront the military. They confront a police formation, sack the police formation, kill some, some escapes. They raid them, they take their arms. Military checking points, they will attack soldiers. Killed, they will kill and take their arms. This is the situation. Mr. Justin, you are hearing it. It happened in reverse yesterday. It happened in reverse today. It is happening almost everywhere. In Niger state, in Kepi today, in Kepi state, a division of police was overrun. DPO was killed. And 8 police officers were murdered. These are things you are seeing. Because when you leave these issues, they should have been deliberated on. So people locked the system and said there would be no dialogue. There would be no issue to be deliberated upon some issues. You don't listen to the voices of the majority. Let me give you an instance. We who are moderates of the Southeast who have been preaching and giving hope that there is hope of change within the Nigerian system. We have become like we have become blackmailed. A situation where those who have extreme views and radical views of the solution to Nigeria's problem are not seen as prophets. They are not seen as prophets. So we have been narrowed. We can't talk to our youths anymore. Because the situation of the country, we are like today, somebody who is not from your place, full of nihilists men will kidnap someone in the bushes of Okiwa, Anambra, and they do good things. We have been back here until the Collectoral Song. Nobody takes those kind of things. So because of the failure of the system, you are beginning to see these kinds of symbols. Bring them up here and there. There may be criminal elements, but they have gotten away of legitimizing their oppression by a reason of the various unsolved issues, unsolved problems within our politics. Thank you, Kishinga. Let's get security analysis right now. I also want to hear from you. Excuse me. The issue of alleged fifth columnist in all of that is happening in Igbosten and of course in the Southeast. Let me read out a comment I got on social media on Twitter to be precise. When I was researching on this particular topic, someone tweeted rather than said attack the police headquarters of military barracks. He now went on to say I wouldn't be shocked if they start attacking government and villas and of course government properties. What does all of these hold in the nearest future? Plus I also want you to respond to the issue of alleged fifth columnist. Well, coming from the side of alleged fifth columnist, I will not take a departure from that. But first of all, let me tell you that all what is playing out go line in line with the audio of a leader because I listened to the audio very well a few days back and to key soldiers and take their guns. I just laughed because you can't be taking safety. I'm putting the Igbon nation at risk. I want to also let you know Justin that if in and the canvas of sin is to get in this fire wireless and any civil war breaks out from my predictive analysis over 36 million Nigerians will die within the next three years if you were perhaps lost for three years and also over 20 million Igbo people will die within the next three years, 10 million pregnant people a lot of issues going to happen because from 1967 about 5 million people died because of the war. We must be very careful and our leaders the people of the south is most of our youths the way in and the canoe is taking this war I don't think it will lead to appreciate that. I would advise it to calm down and also have a negotiation with the government. I would also want the government the possession the result of war that might break out from this incident I have told you today that it's going to run into millions. So now coming back to your fifth columnist when it comes to terrorism especially security definitely will have one or two people that will want to play the role of fifth columnist in disguise looking at the attack on the police commission I felt so painful because I think there is an absence in targets happening before you can be able to penetrate police reporters, you need to pass through what we call concentric cycle or defence in-depth I would advise the Nigerian police to look into defence in-depth so that the criminal will not easily progress in their criminal activities they must experience delay because criminals don't like delay the Nigerian police and other government agency must tighten up their security tighten up their parameters their protection in-depth so that when this criminal arrives they will experience delay and when they experience delay I believe the responding team that will respond to these activities will curtail them but I would advise the Nigerian government to look just like Constantine said they mentioned a very important point that governments sometimes don't care to address the public, the silence of our precedents for so long has brought us to this stage Kissing you are from the south-eastern extraction, let me get your candid opinion right now or some might say I'm trying to play a devil's advocate but nonetheless would you say the governors in the south-east have been truly honest as regards the situation in their domain they are part of the problem and because of the lining of the president they also caused this problem that has come upon us first the entire nation from Edo to Kogi to Anambara to Kaby to Castina to Zamfara have issues of headers who have left their business who no longer have cows are now making brisk business from kidnapping they overrun a community even in Castina, the state of the president they take women they take a cow they take everything, the cattle wrestling is happening in Caduna state is happening almost everywhere but we are living in denial everyone expects the president of the country to rise up and take a position against wild grazing of cattle it is shocking the entire foundation of this country that somebody will have the right to be in your backyard and go to the bushes at your backyard and then can do anything and disappear into the bush and everybody is saying we can ranch this we can talk about ranching and the governors of the northern states they have the right and now look at what happened the governors of the south west took the bull by the horn they are more epic than the south east they launched a motor and banned open grazing the governors of the south east did not take initiative and they forgot that is the view of the majority of their citizens I'm telling you Justin in neighbor state in other states is that they don't want people grazing cattle widely because their goats and their chickens are well domesticated but somebody else is grazing his cattle widely in people's farms and when you try to challenge them they kill you and go into the bush nobody even know the identity of the person who is in this community or the person in the next community they can come by night and live by early morning and then the south east governors neglected that call now they just did that on Sunday they are now banning open grazing there is a talk in my place that if you dissected the grass cutter means in time when it was short the meat wouldn't have decayed so if they took the initiative when the south west governors the citizens wouldn't have lost the trust of their citizens the south west governors were more APC governor fire me is the chairman of the APC governors forum is it the whatever but he banned open grazing and launched the amotec under state governor is APC he banned open grazing took strong initiative governor tom is defending the citizens against the aggression of this adjustment the governors of the south east frustrated that move even when the citizens called for it they called for a regional security outfit they called for banning of open grazing the governors said they were useless for whatever reason because of the lining of the president some other people now take the initiative of the ESL and every other thing you know now when they now started talking about it the people now say we don't believe in you anymore you don't protect us you see how everything is alright thank you for your thought let's begin to wrap up on this particular segment with him Dixie and Osage the south east governors you know they have met twice indeed and now they came out with the regional security which they have tagged them able to be argued that's the glory of the tiger do you think with this new development it will actually stem the tide of insecurity in the south east region as we close please just wrap it up for us thank you very much Justin you see one of the mistakes of the south east governor was that they were so relaxed they gambled with security you know I've said it so many times for human lives are irreplaceable that's why you need to prioritise your risk in the past three years our government both in the south east and south west and south south not east they have been talking about cows ranching without prioritising human life we took almost three to four years discussing the residence of cows which is a depiction to this great nation we must look into risk priority we must look into human factors human mechanism human life come first or prioritise human life first will apply immediate alacrity any mitigation factors well finally if the state governors have finally come to their senses and they are establishing a good way I congratulate them but I think that was a very very late approach because a lot of complaints has been coming out from the south east and they all went to bed until the eastern security network are taking the bull by the horn they now feel that they have been treading into network I know I said the last question but I'm just tempted to just a cheap one and finally indeed in your opening Salvador you talked about how over 200 lives have been lost in just one week alone looking at the general spate of insecurity in Nigeria what do we need to do in the immediate alacrity 200 lives have been lost where across Nigeria both in the north both in the east as in so far with the killings we've had so far and in recent times over 200 Nigerians have lost their lives oh yes we don't have value for human lives we don't have value for human lives if we truly have value for human life justin I think the government from the strategic centre of gravity alright from the from Abuja would have declared a state of emergency and go after this criminal element with speed and momentum but here we allow these criminals to relax, to build in strength and momentum and start hitting hard on our academic system our citizens, our brothers and sisters how I feel that the international community are just looking at us as a joker and that's why some few weeks ago Twitter believed that Nigeria has now a place for their business to be satisfied safe so I think the government must wake up and they must understand that the country is imminent and they must try out a national vulnerability analysis and national risk assessment so that they'll be able to protect the integration thank you so much gentlemen indeed we have been looking at the spate of anti-currency in the south east region with a special mention of the attack on the governor of Emo state that's Hopu Zadima's house and I was joined by Kisinga Eko, the public affairs analyst and Dixin Osaji, a security expert who also joined me many things once again gentlemen we do appreciate it thank you Justin alright, we'll take a short break when we return we'll be speaking on the kind of leaders we need to elect in 2023 stay with us