 Live from Vancouver, Canada, it's theCUBE. Covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018, brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. Hi, and welcome to SiliconANGO Media's production of theCUBE here at OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host, John Troyer. We're here for three days of live wall-to-wall coverage at the OpenStack Foundation's show. They have twice a year. John, pleasure to be with you again. You and I were together at the OpenStack show in Boston a year ago, a little bit further a trip for me, but with views like this, I'm not complaining. Hey, it's a great time to be in Vancouver, a little bit overcast, but the convention center is beautiful, and the people seem pretty excited as well. Yeah, so if you see behind us, there's the keynote let out. So John, we got to get into the first question, of course. For some reason, the last month, people are always, oh, hey, Stu, where are you? What are you doing? And when I walk through the various shows I'm doing, when it comes to this one, they're like, why are you going to the OpenStack show? You know, what's going on there? Isn't that been replaced by everything else? Yeah, I got the same thing. There seems to be kind of almost an anti-religious thing here in the industry, maybe more emotional, perhaps, than other projects, because although, frankly, look, we're going to take the temperature of the community, we're going to take the temperature of the projects, the customers, we've got a lot of customers here. That's really the key here, is that are people actually using this, being productive, functional, and is there enough of a vendor and a community ecosystem to make this go forward? Yeah, absolutely, so three years ago, when we were actually here in Vancouver, the container sessions were overflowing, people sitting in the aisles, containers, containers, containers, docker, docker, docker, we went through a year or two of that. Then Kubernetes, really a wave that has taken over this piece of the infrastructure stack. The KubeCon and CloudNativeCon shows, in general, I think, have surpassed this in size. But as we know in IT, nothing ever dies, everything is always additive, and a theme that I heard here that definitely resonated is we have complexity, we need to deal with interoperability, everybody has a lot of things, and that's the, choose your word, hybrid, multi-cloud world that you have, and that's really the state of open source. What's not a thing is there's lots of things, you take the pieces you need, and you figure out how to put them together, either buy them from a platform, you have some integrator that helps, says somebody that puts it all together, and that's where, you know, we live here, which is, by the way, I thought they might rename the show in the open, and they didn't, but there's a lot of pieces to discuss. Definitely an open infrastructure movement, we'll probably talk about that. Look, I loved the message this morning that the cloud is not consolidating, in fact it's getting more complicated. And so that was a practical message here. It's a little bit of a church of open source as well, so the open message was very well received, and these are the people who are working on it, of course. But yeah, the fact that last year, I thought at Boston, there was a lot of almost confusion around containers, and where containers and Kubernetes fit in the whole ecosystem. I think now in this year in 2018, I think it's a lot more clear and open stack as a project, or a set of projects, which traditionally, the hit on it was very insular and inward-facing, has at least, is trying to become outward-facing. And again, that's something we'll be looking at this week, and how well do they integrate with other open source projects? I mean, John, you and I are both big supporters of the open source movements. Love the community you chose like this, but not exclusively. It's, you know, Amazon participating a little bit, using a lot of open source, they take open source, make it as a service. You were at Red Hat Summit last week. Obviously, huge discussion there about everything, open source, everything. So a lot going on there. Let me just set for, first of all, the foundation itself in this show. The thing that I liked coming into it, one of the things we're going to poke at, is if I go up to the highest level, open stack is not the only thing here. They have a few tracks, they have an edge computing track, they have a container track, and there's a co-resident open dev show happening a couple floors above us. And even from what the open stack foundation manages, yes, open stack's the main piece of it in all those underlying projects, but they had Cata containers, which is a, you know, high level project, and the new one is Zool, talking about CICD. So there are things that will work with open stack, but not exclusively for open stack, might not even come from open stack. So those are things that we're seeing. You know, for example, I was at the beam show last week, and there was a software company, N2WS, that Veeam had bought, and that solution only worked on Amazon to start. And you know, I was at the Nutanix show the week before, and there's lots of things that start in like the Amazon environment, and then make their way to the on-premises world. So we know it's a complex world, you know, I agree with you, the cloud is not getting simpler. Remember when cloud was the swipe the credit card, and it's super easy, the line I've used a lot of times is it is actually more complicated to buy, quote, a server equivalent in the public cloud than it is if I go to the website and have something that's shipped to my data center. It's, yeah, it's kind of ironic that that's where we've ended up. You know, we'll see. With the Zool, it'll be very interesting. One of the hits, again, on open stack has been a reinvention of the wheel. Like, can you interoperate with other projects rather than doing yourself? It sounds like there's actually some very interesting aspects to it as a CICD system, and certainly it uses stuff like Ansible. So it's built using open source components, but other open source components. But you know, what does this give us an advantage for infrastructure people and allowing infrastructure to go live in a CICD way, software on hardware, rather than the ones that have been built from the dev side, the app side. I'm assuming there's good reasons, or they wouldn't have done it, but you know, we'll see. There's still a lot of projects inside the open source umbrella. Yeah, and you know, last year we talked about it, and once again we'll talk about it here. The ecosystem has shifted. There are some of the kind of big traditional infrastructure companies, but what they're talking about has changed a lot. Remember a few years ago, it was HP, 1,000 people, billion dollar investment. IBM has been part of open stack since the very beginning days, but it changes. Even companies like Rackspace, who helped put together this environment, the press release that went out was, oh, we took all the learnings that we did from open stack, and this is our new Kubernetes service that we had. Something that I saw, actually, Randy Byas, who we'll have on the show this week, was on the first time we did this show five years ago. Can't believe it's the sixth year we're doing the show. Randy is always an interesting conversation to poke at some of the sacred cows, and I'll use that analogy, of course, because he is the one that gave us the pet versus cattle analogy, and he said, you know, we're spending a lot of time talking about it's not zero sum game between open stack and Kubernetes, and containers are great, and isn't that wonderful? If we're talking about that so much, maybe we should just go do that stuff, and not worry about this. So it'll be fun to talk to him. The Open Dev Show is being main sponsored by Mirantis, who, last time I was here in Vancouver, was the open stack company, and now, I saw them a year ago, and they were the Kubernetes company and making those changes. So we'll have Boris on and get to find out these companies. There's not a lot of VCs here. The precedent analysts that are here, most of us have been here for a lot of time, so this ecosystem has changed a lot, but while attendance is down a little bit from what I've heard from previous years, there's still some good energy people are learning a lot. So Stu, I did want to point out that something I noticed on the stage that I didn't see, was a lot of infrastructure, right? Open stack, clearly an infrastructure stack. I think we've teased that out over the past couple of years, but I didn't see a lot of talk about the storage subsystems, networking, management, like all the kind of hard infrastructure plumbing that actually everybody here does, as well as a few names, so that was interesting. But at the end of the day, I mean, you've got to appeal to the whole crowd here. Yeah, well, one of the things, we spent a number of years making that stuff work. Back when it was, you know, we were talking about getting Cinder, and then all the storage companies lined up with their various, do we support it? Is it fully integrated? And then even further, does it actually work really well? So same stuff that we went through for about a decade in virtualization. We went through this in open stack. We actually set a couple of years ago. Some of the basic infrastructure stuff has gotten boring, so we don't need to talk about it anymore. Ironic is actually the non-virtualized environments that's the project that they have here. We have a lot of people when we're talking bare metal, we're talking containers. So that has shifted. There's an interesting one in the keynote, is you had, you know, the top level sponsors getting up there. Intel bringing around a lot of their ecosystem partners, talking about Edge, talking about the telecommunications. Red Hat giving a recap of what they did last week at their summit. They've got nice cadence. The last couple of years they've done Red Hat summit and open stack summit back to back so that they can get that flow of information through. Then Mark Shuttleworth, who we'll have on a little bit later today, it came out punching. You know, he started with some motherhood and apple pie about how Ubuntu is anywhere, but then it was like, and we're going to be so much cheaper and we're so much easier than the VMWars and Red Hats the world. And there was a little bit of pushback from the community that maybe that wasn't the right platform to do it. Yeah, I think the room got kind of cold. I mean, that's kind of a church in there, right? And everyone is an open source believer and this kind of invisible hand of capitalism reached in and wrote on the wall and, you know, having read then left. But so, but at the end of the day, right? We got somebody's got to pay for the baby's new shoes. I think that it was also very interesting seeing at the Red Hat Summit, which I covered on theCUBE, Red Hat's argument was fairly philosophical and from first principles. Containers are Linux, therefore Red Hat, right? And that's like, that was a logically laid out. Mark's actually, I love Mark's, the Mark's most of his speeches, which was very practical. This, you know, Ubuntu is going to make both the open stack and containers simpler, faster, quicker and cheaper. So it was clearly benefits. And then for the folks that don't know, then he put up a couple of crazy eddy slides like limited time offer, if you're here at the show, here's a deal that we put together for you. So that was a little bit unusual for a keynote. Yeah, well, and there are a lot of users here and some of them will hear that and they'll say, yeah, you know, I've used Red Hat there, but you can save me money, that's awesome. Let me find out some more about it. All right, so we've got three days of coverage here, here, John, and we get to cover this really kind of broad ecosystem that we have here. You talk about what we don't discuss anymore, like the major release was Queens, and it used to be that was where I would study up and be like, oh, okay, we've got Hudson, and then we got, you know, it was the letters of the alphabet, it's like, okay, what's the next one going to be and what are the major features? It's reached a certain maturity level that we're not talking the release anymore. It's more like the discussions we have in cloud, which is sometimes you have some of the major things, and oh yeah, it just kind of wraps itself in. Deployment still probably aren't nearly as easy as we'd like. Shuttleworth said, two guys in under two weeks, that's awesome, but there's solutions we can put and stand up much faster than that now. Two weeks way better than some of the historical things we've done, but it changes quite a bit. So telecommunications, still a hot topic. Edge is something that, you know, and I think back, it was like, oh, all those NFE conversations we've had here, it's not just the SDN, changes that are happening, but this is the edge discussion for the telcos and something people are getting their arms around. So. Super interesting to think of the cloud on telephone poles and in branch offices and data centers, in closets basically, or under desks almost. No self-driving cars up on the keynote stage though. No, nothing that flashy this year. No, definitely not too flashy. So the foundation itself, it's interesting. We've heard rumors that maybe the show will change name, the foundation will not change names. So I want to give you last things. What are you looking for this week? What were you hearing from the community leading up to the show that you want to validate or poke at? Well, I want to look at real deployments. I'd like to see how standard we are if we are, if an open stack deployment is standardized enough that the pool of talent is growing and that if I hire people from outside my company who've worked with open stack, I know that they can work with my open stack. I think that's key for the continuation of this ecosystem. I want to look at the general energy and how people are deploying it. Whether it does become really invisible and boring but still important or does, do you end up running OpenShift on bare metal? Which as an infrastructure person, I just can't see that the app platform should be half to worry about all this infrastructure stuff because it's complicated. And so I'll just be looking for the healthy productions and production deployments and see how that goes. Yeah, and I love one of the things that they started many years ago. They have a super user category where they give an award and I'm excited. We actually have the Ontario Institute for Cancer Research is one of our guests on today. They won the 2018 Super User Group. It's always awesome when you see, not only it's like, okay, CERN's here and they're doing some really cool things looking for the Higgs Boson and all those kinds of things but companies that are using technology to help them attack the battle against cancer. So you can't beat things like that. We've got the person from the keynote, Melvin who's up on stage talking about the Open Lab, community ecosystem, definitely something that resonates. I know one of the reasons I pulled you into this show in the last year is that you've got strong background there. Super impressed by all the community activity. This still feels like a real community. Lots of pictures of people, lots of real exhortations from stage to like we who have been here for years know each other, please come meet us. So that's a real sign of also a healthy community dynamic. So John, first of all, want to say happy Victoria Day because we are here in Vancouver and we've got a lot of going on here. It's a beautiful venue. Hope you'll join us for all of the coverage here. And I have to give a big shout out to the companies that allowed this to happen. We are independent media, but we can't survive without the funding of our sponsors. So first of all, the OpenStack Foundation helps get us here and gives us this lovely location overlooking outside. But if it wasn't for the likes of our headline sponsor Red Hat, as well as Canonical, Contron and Nuage Networks, we would not be able to bring you this content. So be sure to check out thecube.net for all the coverage. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Minin. Thanks so much for watching theCUBE.