 Mark Shklov, the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea program. Today we're going to talk with Amanda Chang, a lawyer who traces her roots across the sea to Korea. Amanda is of counsel to the law firm of Clay Chapman, Iwamora Police, and Nerval here in Honolulu, Hawaii. I've asked Amanda to share her perspectives and insight as a Korean-American attorney in Hawaii. Aloha. Amanda, how are you? Aloha. Good to see you, Mark. Good to see you. And you identify as a Korean-American. And I want to ask you a little bit about that. And tell me a little bit about your personal heritage as Korean-American. What does that mean to you personally? I am, I guess, ancestry-wise, I'm 100% pure Korean, but nationality-wise, I'm an American citizen. So combining the two, my ancestry and my current citizenship makes me Korean-American. But I was born in Korea, Seoul, Korea, and came to Hawaii as an immigrant with my parents. When they immigrated, I came as their, you know, three children with them. You know, I came just a package deal. Your parents go, you go, right? So I moved because my parents moved, especially my father's side family lived in the US in Hawaii since the 60s. So my father was the last one to join. So I came here in 1983 as a high schooler at Pearl City High School. Okay. Wow. So, yeah, so you've combined both your Korean heritage and birth with Hawaii and America. And that's how you see yourself, that Korean-American. That's what brings that identity to you. Correct. I could almost say I'm Korean-Hawaiian, but nobody will believe me. So I'm Korean-American. Okay. And you're also an attorney and you're a Korean-American attorney practicing law in Hawaii. What kind of law do you practice? You know, I've been doing immigration law since day one. So I, when I was in law school, I wanted to do, I wanted to come up with a like law that is right for me. So I wanted to have two criteria. One, I wanted to use my language. I can speak three languages. So I wanted to use my language. And two, I wanted to have an equal gender representation among my clients. So if I were to go say, for example, corporate law, criminal law, more likely than not, I'll have more male clients. Whereas if I were to go family law, immigration law, half and half, you know, like kind of even. So I wanted to work with both gender, especially women, if I could. So I was more interested in family and immigration. And boom, all of a sudden, Mr. James Stanton, who was the founding attorney for this law firm. Now they changed from Stanton Clay and all that name. Now we are actually Clay, Eomora, Pulis and Nervau, Chapman retired. So I was recruited by Mr. Stanton, who founded this law firm that I'm of counsel at this point. He was an adjunct professor teaching immigration law at the university school of law. William S. Richardson School of Law. I took immigration law from him and he offered me a job. And as a law clerk, I thought, oh my God, this guy's perfect because I was interested in immigration and family. He did immigration and family. So I say, this is it. I got a, like the ticket. I won the lottery ticket. So that's how I got involved in immigration and family. But I don't do much family law anymore. But I mainly specialize in immigration law. Thanks to Mr. James Stanton. He's my forever teacher. You know, that's interesting. And you also trace your own background to immigration to Hawaii. And, you know, there was, there is Korean immigration in Hawaii. What is the background of a basic Korean immigration? When did Korean people start coming to Hawaii? Why did they come here? And what attracted them to Hawaii? What's the background? It's a sad and happy story to tell. It goes back 120 years ago. 1903, January 13th is when 120 Koreans came to Hawaii Harbor in Gaelic, you know, it's a ship called Gaelic. 102 people started the first immigration of any Korean coming to the US. In fact, any, you know, immigration to any foreign land from Korea, period. Back then, Korea was a dynasty. Some people call it Joseon dynasty. Some people call it Lee dynasty, E dynasty. But 1903 is a kind of sad, kind of historically in Korea where Japanese occupation colonizing Korea occurred officially 1910. 1910, which is like about 130 years ago about. But few years before, there was a process. It doesn't just happen one day, another country, you know, colonizing another country. So 1903, a lot of Koreans, a lot of Christians in fact left Incheon, which is a port city near Seoul, Korea. They left Korean soil for better life and to work and to also Christianity in Korea was really starting at that point and really rare. So a lot of church members of Incheon area and some other areas too, but mostly Incheon area came. That was our first generation of Korean immigration in 1903. In fact, we just celebrated 120th anniversary of Korean immigration in January this year. So that's how all started. And then a lot of people came until 1940s. And then there was a stop of immigration from Asia altogether. And then second wave of immigration started in late 1960s. So second wave of immigrants started to come in 1960s until now. I am part of the second wave. And the original, I mean, they're looking for a better life. I mean, and that seems to be a common theme of immigrants coming to Hawaii or coming to the United States is looking for a better life. And did they find it here in Hawaii? And are they still interested? Are Koreans still want to come to Hawaii? That's a good question and you asked few, so I'll answer one at a time. So those who first came in 1903, a lot of them thought, okay, I'm going to work hard and make money and I'm going to return back home to marry and to start a family. The majority of 102 people who came to Hawaii's shore in 1903, all male, single, a lot of them, not too many families. So they wanted to work hard and make some money and go home. But then, as I said to you a little earlier, in 1910, there was no Korea. Japanese took over, so there was no home to return. So Hawaii became the temporary, like what do you call it, independence movement space where Shanghai was one and Hawaii was another big city or country where independence movement of among Korean ancestries trying hard to raise money and to take back their country from Japan. So early immigration was like that. It was about no home to return, independence movement. And then now, I think 60s and on Korea also went through Korean war after the Japanese occupation ended in 1945. You know, South Korea was born in 1948, but then two years after there's a Korean war between the north and the south. So when war ended in 1953, Korea had nothing. It just became a new country, South Korea being a democratic country, North Korea being the communist country. But other than that, they had nothing. Everything was destroyed. It was right after the war. Korea had to build their country from scratch, literally from 1953. So in the 60s and 70s and 80s, a lot of people came for better life and better education and my parents being one, my family, my mom and dad joined my father's side family who was established by then in 80s when we came. And my father's delayed his immigration until he decided that, you know what, for better education for my children, I'm going to join my rest of my family. So that's how it came. So I think, as you asked, yes, better life. It came and then I think Koreans flourished ever since they came, I think in the US. So it's been beneficial and it's been a good positive step for immigration. Is it hard for Koreans to immigrate to Hawaii or to the United States now? Is there any restrictions or problems with that at all? You know, immigration law, since I'm doing immigration law, immigration to any country is not an easy matter. Changing your life from one country looting to another country is not an easy thing. But immigration law is ever changing federal law just like tax law. I mean, it changes every single time you have a chance. Immigration law the same. So the rule changes, policies change when the president changes, we have a whole set of new attitudes and policies and rules and such. So immigration in general, I would say it's not easy. However, we do have a lot of treaties between Korea and the US and of course, US with other countries. But a lot of them are remaining the same. I mean, I've been doing this since 2000. So it's been 23 years. There are laws that change so many times. I cannot even remember how many. There are some laws that stay put from the beginning until now. No changes. So there is a, you know, both. But overall, immigration law is a very ever changing. So I never get bored because I cannot be bored. I have to keep up every time I have a chance continuing legal education for immigration lawyer is the name of the game. Okay. Yeah. And, you know, you talked about the differences between North and South Korea. Also, as maybe being a motivating factor for immigration and. Okay. You know, I turned off my cell phone by now my office. Sorry. Sorry. I don't know how to turn this off. No, I'm going to do this. Sorry. I manually hung up the phone. Sorry. Go ahead. Ash, are you okay? Ash. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so you mentioned Amanda that, you know, the differences between North and South Korea motivated a lot of people to move to United States and to Hawaii, and that things have been beneficial. You know, what, what, what is the view of Korean Americans towards what's happening in Korea, North and South and major issues. And I have some follow up questions. I mean, I just don't understand that, you know, the difference. Why is what North Korea one way and South Korea another what, what's motivated is anything cultural. I mean, I know I've asked a bunch of questions but what are your thoughts. I think the biggest issue of Korea is the fact that we have two Koreas, South and North. So the biggest issue is unification. Both South and North Korea share the same culture, same language, same ancestry. There is no difference except for political system. North Korea being communist, South Korea being, you know, a democratic country, the ideology and two different regime, that's the only difference that's separating. What's so sad is, you know, Korea has been separated since 1953 at the end of the war until now. There are people who have families separated because of the two Koreas and you cannot freely go. There's some exchanges of relatives seeing each other with a prearranged setting and time and place between the two Koreas, but I think the biggest issue facing being faced by Korea is unification. And I hope this is my personal hope that the Korea will be unified. And as a one country sooner than later, I really hope that is going to happen before I die. And you know what, North Korea, they are very closed community, closed the country. Not too many people know anything much about Korea, North Korea, except for their missile testing and, you know, ballistic missile hitting, you know, possibly Hawaii. We have some news, but you know what, North Korea is such a closed country. I've been to North Korea one time as a South Korean government sponsored me and other Korean Americans to go as an effort to make a unification happen. So I visited North Korea one time as a like group, so just sponsored by South Koreans and North Korean together. But other than that, I don't have any experience or, you know, a knowledge about what's going on except for what you hear, what you read on the news. Whereas South Korea, I go to South Korea for at least once if not every once a year, if not every other year. In fact, I'll be there in September, because there was an international association of Korean lawyers where there are two common factors that you are Korean and your companies all over the world. They get together every two years in Seoul, and then we exchange network and we have a legal seminars, continuing education and etc. So because of COVID, it was closed down for a couple years, but now they're reopened. So I'm due to go back to South Korea. But you know what, South Korea is an amazing country, not to mention that they're top 10 world economic powerhouse, but at the same time, from 1953 after the war ended until now, we're only talking what, 70 years exactly? Last 70 years, they became a country which you used to get, they were used to getting international help because they had nothing. They were getting help from other countries, including US, but now South Korea is a country that gives and donates their resources and manpower to other countries. So I'm really proud that South Korea, my home country, my home country is in a position to help out. And another thing that I kind of recently learned is that South Korean government, they don't forget who they are indebted to, including Korean war veterans from Hawaii and from the US, from everywhere. Korean government makes an effort to bring these soldiers in their 80s and 90s and hundreds every year to visit Korea, fully pay for from room and board first class everywhere. And they treat these people and say thank you with heartfelt gratitude and they don't forget what they owe their country, Korean country for having the freedom and democracy. And the fact that people like Japanese, American in the US, in Hawaii or Chinese or Caucasian, they all went to fight. So we have a Korean War Memorial at the Capitol, I don't know whether you know. But there we have Hawaiian soldiers who fought in Korea and I just went to pay respect on the 6th of June because that's a Korean Memorial Day. So Korean government consulate here, they put together a nice ceremony and luncheon and we had like seven local, you know, ex Korean war veterans attending the event that was really memorable for me. You know, I can't help but think, you know, we talk about the difference between the two Koreas north and south and you know you say it's the political system. And boy, you know, if only if only North Korea could could move closer to what the system is in South Korea would seem like would just be such a better place. And I hear what you're saying about uniting. I wonder if that'll, that'll ever happen as long as the political system in North Korea is so divisive. So, I mean, I, I hear you, I hear you talk about that. And I've been to South Korea, many times, really like it. It's even with the threat of North Korea. The people are just so nice and friendly and, and, and maybe that's they learn that from being subject to those threats is that's a way of to live life. And so it goes beyond politics to me. Now, I wanted to move on a little bit you mentioned that there's, you know, Koreans who are attorneys, and you get together but there's I've noticed also that there seems to be a very strong Korean American legal community in Hawaii. And I wanted you to talk about that a little bit what's that about how did that come about. Yeah. You know, we do have sub chapters or sub sections within the HSBA, Hawaii State Bar Association, Korean American Bar Association Hawaii is one of the, you know, subsection of the Hawaii State Bar Association. Believe it or not, they're a Korean American Bar Association. We are Hawaii so it's a Kaba is with a H at the end, but there's so many Kaba throughout the whole country, believe it or not. And we sometimes communicate but I think Korean Americans, and then being an attorney combined, you know, I think there is a certain amount of connectivity association and closeness where we form this entity before I became an attorney, I think it started in 1970s sometime, and there are members, they don't have to be Korean by the way, I don't spell for for example, is half Japanese half Caucasian, but he loves Korean so much where he became one of the Korean American Bar Association, So it doesn't have to be Korean, literally ancestry wise but we do have, you know, meetings and board meetings and projects and things we do to help out how can we help out Korean American community in the state of Hawaii. So in terms of legal system, you know what can we do to assist and to be a bridge between the legal community and Korean American community. So our job is to connect the two. And we used to do legal seminars, border registrations, and also being, you know, a precinct officer volunteering, I mean you get paid a little bit of money but you volunteer all day on the, you know, voter election day at the polling site. So we did many different things like that and then when other bar sections from Korea, for example, come here, we are one of the frontline preparing and welcoming those people for example, Seoul Bar Association is coming at the end of the month. So we will be the one who's kind of preparing as a part of the HSBA but Korean American Bar Association Hawaii. So tell me about that. What is the relationship with the Seoul Bar Association? Why is it important? Why is it meaningful? You know Seoul Bar Association has a sister relationship. We have a friendship agreement between Seoul Bar Association and Hawaii State Bar Association as you may know and as you already well know. So every 10 years they have a friendship agreement being renewed and this is going to be the third time if I'm not mistaken. So Seoul Bar Association has been coming here for the last 30 years visiting and we're exchanging our members and gifts and ideas, knowledge. In fact, part of our visit, their visit of the State of Hawaii includes legal seminars, us talking about legal topics that may be of interest to us and Seoul Bar and Seoul Bar will be the same. What may be of interest to us and to them they're going to exchange at the UH Law School. So Seoul Bar Association is coming as a part of the legal community in global, you know, the whole world. We have this exchange program, getting to know each other, learning from each other, exchanging with each other. That's why it's so important. And I sense there's this cultural pride and feeling of closeness that maybe connects all of these groups and that you include everybody. It's inclusive. Yes. Right? And the Seoul Bar Association when they come here, it develops relationships. Is that kind of what the outcome is looked for? That's correct. They come and they will exchange their ideas and their presence. You know, what's new to them? What's of a concern to them? You know, it's such a global neighborhood. We are like so next to each other. Not only we share the same Pacific Ocean, we share the same moon and the sun and the stars, right? So we're, we're seeing far away from each other, but in fact, we're really close together. So I think we're sharing each other. To me it's very meaningful. And, you know, it's interesting that they want to come here. I mean, they see the value of this also. The Seoul Bar Association, they don't have to come to Hawaii. They don't have to leave Seoul, but they are seeking the opportunity to connect and network with Hawaii lawyers. Right? And be part of that group and make those strong connections, which to me is a great thing. It's a great experience and it makes for, like you were saying, you know, the world to be closer. That's right. I really think that just like what you said, they don't have to do anything. They're busy with their lives, their work and their community, but yet they go out of their way to reach out. And it takes about 10 hours to fly out here, you know, and out of their busy schedule, but they want to keep up the tradition of having friendship agreement. Sister relationship with the Hawaii State Bar Association and exchanging ideas and I mean, each other's company and networking and sharing what is, you know, important to them may be relevant to us and vice versa. So I think it's really a good thing. And it also, I mean, it speaks of our Hawaiian culture too. I mean, our Korean American Hawaiian culture where where we show Aloha back and forth. We get together. We maybe help break down some of barriers or we get to know each other better. So I think it's it's good all the way around and it's good that our bar association Hawaii bar association is involved in this. And so I like, I like what's happening that's it's a very good experience I think for everybody to be involved. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how I step our association just like what you said is the Hawaiian culture is also very inclusive, and they're very inviting and welcoming. It shows through the body of, you know, HSBA, we are very inclusive, welcoming. And then we're doing same thing to how our soul bar association directors as well. And, and what you're saying that everybody is invited to participate today, you know, Korean American culture in Hawaii is inclusive for everybody. That's correct. And, you know, the legal topics that's going to be presented at the UH law school. That's also on Wednesday 28th at 12 o'clock at the UH mood court room is open to everybody. There's a one credit of an ethics CLE offered if you were to attend and not only meeting so of our association people but also you're getting a one hour credit free by the way price is right right so it's very inclusive, just like the way SBA and HSBA are. And so that is a good thing to join and participate in if you want to because everybody needs that credit. If you're a Hawaii practicing lawyer, you need to get that ethics credit. Now we're at the end of our time here but I wanted to ask you, you know, we talked a lot about culture and is there any words of wisdom, Korean words of wisdom, cultural words that would provide hope and inspiration during these times in the world, you know, the difficult times. One word that came to my mind has to eat that has to eat that is a can do. I can do it, you know, no matter where you are what you do what type of difficulties you may be facing at this point. I think you always have to remember has to eat that that means I can do it can do that to me is an attitude that needs to be spread out. I like the positive statement and that's nice Korean cultural input. Thank you very much Amanda Amanda Chang I appreciate you being my guest today and talking about being a Korean American attorney in Hawaii which is really broad. It's really a great, great theme. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having us. If you like what we do, please click the like and subscribe button on YouTube. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Check out our website thinktecawaii.com Mahalo