 He's a 13-year NBA vet. He coached the Suns, he coached the Raptors. Earl Watson joining us right now. Earl, first of all, good morning. Thank you for the time. We're gonna jump right in because you were with the Raptors when OG Ananobi was there, obviously, and he is doing quite nicely in his new home in New York. Were you shocked that the trade finally happened and what do you think about what he's done so far? I wasn't shocked that the trade happened. I knew the Raptors had to make moves. But what OG brings to the Knicks, I don't think RJ could possess. There's two different skill sets. OG is a great two-way player. And what OG is in the late clutch and you'll see it in the playoffs, he's a big-time three-point shot maker. So anytime we play games, you're being the clutch. Last three minutes of the fourth quarter, he comes over with big-time threes. Earl, who do you like that trade for most, though? When you think about the Knicks, they get OG Ananobi, who you know very well. On the Raptor side, I saw them last night, RJ Barrett, Manuel, quickly. Who do you like for this trade? I like the trade for both because RJ fits the timeline of Scotty Barnes. We understand that's his team moving forward. Even though the Pascal Siakum, Saga is taking over the NBA. But for the Knicks, I think the Knicks get a player. And people, I'm about to put on my coaching lens. And the last, OG can guard a five for three to five minutes, not an entire game. So the last five minutes of a game, three minutes of a game, you can put OG on a four and he can switch on to a point guard. He can switch on to a center. He can switch on to a three. Whoever you want him to switch on to when he does a great job, just locking down that defender one-on-one defense. Coach, the trade deadline is less than a month away. There's a lot of rumors, a lot of talk always, but in particular on Pascal Siakum, what's your take there? Do you think they should move him? And do you think he's a one-two option on a championship team? I believe so. I think whoever he gets moved to, he's going to be a two option because they pretty much already have that one option. Unless it's the Pacers, it'd be interesting to see Halliburton and Pascal down the stretch. Because I think what the Pacers is missing is a closer of size who can get to the free throw line, get to rim or create a pass. And what Pascal is excellent at is patience in the paint. He's excellent in this new NBA era of being patient in the middle of the paint to force rotations to kick out for three pointers or dunker passes for dunks and assists. And people kind of minimize his assist game, but he's up there with Jokic. He's up there with Yanis. He's up there with Luca as far as assistant throughout the paint. Oh, the Raptors, they look like they're, you know, they're moving away from Siakam and they're building around Scotty Barnes. Do you think that's a good idea? Do you think that's sustainable? I think when you talk about, is it sustainable? You know, we all know this is players. The timeline of players, and I never understood this, is never with skill. It's only with year and age. So when a team is built, they're built around the year of the player. If the player is a younger player, they'll put younger players around them to grow. And I think the reverse of it is the Lakers. If you remember the Lakers, Colby was so young when the championships with Vets because his skill was at that level. So it's a different lens that you look at it through when you talk about management, making moves and also prepare money to pay Scotty Barnes. When Nick Nurse was let go, there were reports of dysfunction in the locker room. What's going on? You were there. Did you see any of that? I just think it's a tough, it was a tough year if you think about it. It's the same roster. They eventually made moves with that same roster. I think when you talk, when coaches are let go in that area and they bring in a new coach, the first 25 games is gonna tell you if the coach that was previously there was effective or was it just a roster move? I think after the lens of Nick Nurse, you see management take moves that can allow them to kind of advance their roster in a younger era, younger phase, throughout Scotty Barnes, moving OG, potentially moving Pascal and it's the shift of the team. You were also the interim coach and then the full-time head coach of the Phoenix Suns when Devin Booker was a rookie. Did you see the signs back then that he had this ability that we're seeing right now where he's transformed into a superstar? Sam, do you remember back then people thought I was crazy for playing Booker and starting Booker and believing in Devin? And had a couple of quotes saying he'd be the best player in the Phoenix Suns history and people thought, because of my age and inexperience of coaching, I was just not ready for that role. Devin Booker possessed a couple of things for me early on and players understand this. He had a maturity to his game and his age, right? Devin is a mature, younger player and then he had a will and a skill that he could shoot but also had a work ethic that matched it. And the moment I knew Devin Booker was gonna be that guy is when I was an interim, I was a development coach. Devin Booker wasn't playing and at the end of every practice he would play everyone who was staying one on one. He would beat him and as he would walk off the court he would yell, I don't understand why I'm not playing. And I was like, this kid is different. This kid is different. He had this fire and the tenacity he had that would go up into people's faces such as PJ Tucker in practice. And there'd be some physical altercations but the kid never backed down and that's when he knew he would be great. Yeah, coach, with Book you believed in him. You said he could be the greatest son of all time. Is it true that you wanted to actually start him but the organization was stuck on Brandon Knight at the time? So I guess I did, that was the beginning of the end for me. I didn't understand politics and coaching. So yes, that's true. So here's what I didn't understand as a young man. I was 34 when I became the head coach. So this is what I was straight from playing. This is what I didn't understand is that they had paid Eric Bledsoe and Brandon Knight, 60 million each. That's a ton of money in the back court. And here I am as a new coach and Brandon Knight's new deal, saying that Brandon Knight isn't better than the rookie who just drafted Devon Booker. And then here I am going into Boston. I don't think I helped him get 70 because we only had eight players available. I mean, we all knew who was gonna shoot the ball. It wasn't gonna be the three G-league players we had coming off the bench. And then I'm getting Devon 70 in Boston with like 45 seconds remaining. And then that entire, I mean, think about it for players. We are taught to show no mercy on the other side no matter the score. We play into the buzzer ends, right? Well, in coaching, I guess there's a coaching code that I never knew about is we kind of like don't let guys reach that peak. And if the game is pretty much over, I'm a player's coach. I'm like, before it actually was like, was he trying to let him get 70? I said, no, hell no. I was trying to get into overtime and get him 80. Like, what are you talking about? I was gonna settle for the 70. Wait, you know what? I never thought about that. There's like unwritten rules for coaches, but if you came straight from playing, how would you have ever known any of these rules? That's just not how it works. I mean, I wouldn't have made it in the league if I was that nice and kind that people all had been out in training camp in. We all, I mean, players have played in league on the stand as Kobe could have got 80 a bunch of times. And we never knew what I feel was just not let them play the fourth. And I guess I wasn't paying attention to that part. You guys had the fourth pick in the 17 draft. The Celtics took Tatum at three, but if he had still been up there, is there, I like pretending like, what could have been a world in which we would have seen Tatum and Booker and would have that, that would have been one of the greatest duos of all time. I actually got a phone call from Tatum in his Asia, maybe a year or two ago and they were talking about that draft and they were talking about how, I understood the landscape of future draftees, just because I have so many AAU teams for so long and honest to recruiting in the NBA was about to be the same as college because now everyone can pay, right? Players coming out in this era and this generation want to be developed quickly. They want to play, they want to put the game on the line. So instead of me hosting Jason Tatum at the facility, I took him out of the facility and we just got in my car and we visited every player at their house, almost like a college recruiting trip. And we talked about the vision. We talked about how it was just, I didn't understand this, but I have such a good relationship with players. I could just call them and tell them I'm coming over. I don't know how many players at a head coach come to their house in the summer and chill and watch TV and talk basketball with a potential draftee, but I took them around and I told them the vision and I told them we would be very legendary. They have two light-skinned killers on the court at the same time. Devin Booker and him together, I just saw the vision. He had the greatest free draft work I've ever seen in my life. He started with ball handling and then he went straight to the corner three and I've been watching pre-draft workouts since I played, I was just going watch. I was being intrigued with coaching and drafting and the other side of basketball. He ripped off 40 straight threes and then ownership stopped him. I thought he could have got at least 80 or 100. And after he ripped off the 40, I was like, what else do we need to see? This is over. This is the guy we need. He's like a taller version of Devin Booker, like put one on each wing. He's blessed so how to be a pointer and get a younger point guard and just ride off into the development sunset of that. Isn't it fun to think about what could have been? What we would have seen at that point? Current times, the Suns are struggling with the big three, two and four so far with those guys. What do you think the issues are with that group and trying to find that rhythm? I mean, you two guys kind of know this. It's like, I'm surprised no one had brought this up yet. I think arguably Devin Booker has been the best shooting guard NBA for a couple of seasons, right? And when you have a young shooting guard who is the best in the league at its prime, in my opinion, I'm not getting this from Devin even though I'm out of relationships with these players, as a basketball ends, why would you move the best in a league to a different position? Why would you move Devin Booker before his prime when he's the elite before his prime into a point guard role? The minute we do that, we understand the NBA is a, it's not a, it's a rhythm game. You have to find your rhythm within the offense. Every player has a rhythm that's the fit. And it's up to the coaches to find those rhythms to make that team better. And I think the biggest adjustment for them is to go get a point guard, move Devin back into his natural fit, put Brad on the other wing. And Kate, he can play the four. He can play, you know, positions where in this league he can play the four. And that'd be a tough matchup for any four. And I think they have the advantage. But as far as setting up the team, assisting, keeping Devin mine on scoring, instead of balancing the game, I think is their biggest challenge. I said this exact thing yesterday on the show. I'm like, you got the, one of the best shooting guards in the league. And then your only point guard on the roster is the kid, Goodwin. I'm like, go get a vet point card, at least to set the table and let these three guys eat. I mean, you guys know if we played against Colby in his prime and he moved to the point, we'll be ecstatic. Like, yes. Right. Set up the offense, right? Right. And just deny him when it comes back to, we have so many schemes, but Colby on that wing would invent the score, puts fear into every team. Oh, you were also in Seattle when the SuperSonic's got Kevin Durant in 2007. What was your first impression of KD when he arrived to Seattle? KD was just a young kid, man, who wanted to play basketball, he's a gym rat. I'll call him DC Slim. All he wanted to do was stay in the gym, work on his game and play video games with his neighbors. And I thought it was kind of, I thought it was really cool that before games, I was like, KD, so what'd you do before the game? He was like, oh, a couple of my neighbors came down. We play some, you know, we play video games and I just came straight to the gym. Those kids had the greatest experience from one of the greatest players they ever played. And the evolution of KD going into OKC where Russ joined in and James ended up coming, that was a big three before we knew what big threes were organically. And if that three would have stayed together, I think they would have been ahead of Golden State as far as winning championships and being developed. Man. Earl, former UCLA Bruin, Jaime Hocquez, a lot of people hadn't heard of him really much. He's having an unbelievable start of the season. Some people are saying he's in the hunt for rookie of the year. Obviously, you know, Chad, I think, has an unlock. But did you see this coming as a former Bruin yourself? Yeah, I did, actually. I'm close with the family and, you know, I had convinced them to stay was a big part of my role as far as coaching, changing. What I told him is UCLA is always be UCLA. You're going to always have a great opportunity, a great chance of education to develop and meet the smartest people in the world, especially on the court and off the court. And what Jaime was, if you pull up his high school tapes, Jaime was a wing. And Jaime, to me, always had this shifty awkwardness footwork to his game that was kind of like on a perimeter in high school, similar to Genobly, the Euro steps, the awkward finishes. But what you see now is Jaime's footwork in the post, jump-stopping, playing off two feet, finding angles, making the extra pass. He's a basketball survivor, but his parents also played basketball. And his mom is the passionate one. She's the one in the stands, cussing them out. So I think being in with the heat is perfect for him because he has that at home, that same mentality, that same accountability and kind of like that edge. And now apparently he's in the dunk contest, which surprised me. Does he have that kind of bounce to compete with the Mack McClung? He's doing it again, too. I mean, we all had a different bounce in high school. As we got older, we kind of picked up certain weight and too many games. But Jaime asked him stuff to him. He won a high school dunk contest that's here in Canyon with the best LA athletes and talent of that time. And Canyon more junior son, Canyon more junior was in the dunk contest. We know KJ can jump. So for Jaime to be in my high school, I like to see what he pulled out in the all-story game. How's that taste, Chandler? That sounds legit. Can't wait. All right, that's gonna be real. UCLA pickup games. I would imagine there are some stories. Do you have any that you could share? Oh, I've never seen Magic Johnson lose to the back-to-back Lakers. Everyone knows Magic is legendary in pickup and he would bring his same vibe every time he played against Kobe, Shaq, Robert, D-Fish, whoever else came with him. And Magic never lost. When Magic got game point, everything was a foul. If he missed a jump shot, it was a foul. If it was a turnover, it was a foul. So you just knew you wasn't going back the other way. And people never challenged him because Magic is the initiator of those pickup games. When he came in 79 to UCLA to LA, he wanted to develop and play throughout the summer. He was a young player and he just started that and Rico took it to the next level. But seeing Kobe in there and seeing, if you guys remember Chauncey at one point was bouncing from team to team. Chauncey used the UCLA summers to develop his game and get better. Magic was an influence to all of us. And just seeing Kobe go from like 7.30 in the morning from the gym and the track, 5.30 from the track and gym to the pickup games at 3.30. And that's when we knew Kobe was just a different type of player. Yeah, that's awesome. You played alongside Darren Williams, Jason Williams, Russell Westbrook, Dame Lillard. Who was your favorite running mate in the back court? GP, Bandage. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, we were all the way back. I'll say that's why I picked the full court, Lou, because they used to bust me up every day of practice. So I knew I wasn't going to face anyone that long in a game that I did in two or three hour practices. But Gary Payton was the most unique. What Gary taught me early in my career is he knew every team's offense and shoot around before he was even given to us. So Gary had his persona of just like, I just play, I just who, I'm not a basketball subline. But when we got into our shoot around, he kind of ran shoot around. He told us what was going to happen. He prepared us for every play, every option, three or four options within the play. And he had the rotations down. So to see how he learned that really created my basketball mind to be more than just a player. And that's when I started to see the game more as a coach because GPR already had that vision. Earl, you got any good, excuse me, any good white chocolate stories? I know that that's my guy in Orlando, Gator, great. Gator. I know one time, you picked me up in the gym one time and just from riding with him to the gym, I almost failed a drug test. And I didn't even take one hit. And I almost failed a drug test, just riding with this bull. I love J. Will. He was also my teammate in Memphis with Brevin Knight. So I've been in point guard heaven, being even tutor to mentor about magic in college. But here's a G. I don't think J. Will would mind me telling the story. Uh-oh. I don't know what words, I don't know what words I can use on this show. So y'all, y'all might have to believe me. Let it feel free. Let it feel free. Let it feel free. Okay, here we go. Y'all remember when UB Brown retired and Fertolo came, right? To Memphis, right? Fertolo became the coach, UB stepped down. Fertelo didn't want J. Will to cross over and shoot threes anymore. And J. Will in the middle of practice was like, damn, Mike, if I can't do that, homeboy, what am I good for? So the entire game, J. Will, was just dribble real fast through a player and do the two dribble backup dribble. Y'all remember that dribble we taught when we was young? I remember that too. And he was doing it on purpose. He was hopping around and hopping around and hopping around. I'm like, damn, dude. I'm yelling like, yo, we gotta win the game. Like, forget what he's talking about. Fuck that, shoot the threes. This is what we do. So it went back and forth for a long time. And I think Fertelo finally gave in because we were just, we were so young, we needed J. Will to be special. But if you put J. Will in this generation of basketball where it was point guard driven, perimeter driven with three point shot making, he would be even better than he was back then. That's just knowing Fertelo too. That's just a fun interaction. I love it. Thank you so much for the time this morning. We appreciate it. Love all the good stories. Hopefully talk soon. Thanks, sir. I appreciate you guys, thank you. Yes, sir. And we'll be back. Run it up, run it back, run it up, run it back, run it up, run it back, run it up.