 anything that you take as part of this world is really going to hold on to guilt. And if some parts seem attractive, then it's not going to seem like this guilt is hell. Guilt is hell sometimes, and guilt is... La la! Sometimes. So what does Jesus Tharno know about this guilt is hell? What is this opposite? That's what the mind has difficulty answering in their question because it doesn't believe this guilt is hell. As soon as the ego system is raised up into awareness, then the mind can say, ah, guilt is hell. I don't want this anymore. I choose the right mind as an alternative to the wrong mind, to guilt. But as long as it's submerged, and there seems to be all these attractive things on the screen, well, the ego thing is not all bad. There's still some good, but this ego thing is not all guilty. It's not all bad. So you see how seductive it is, how important it is to raise it up. Oh, what? So how could God consummate a marriage? Good question. Right. Who said he did? No, he did. That's what I'm saying. Just hit me. There's no consummation of marriage then. I don't understand what you're saying. We get married under God's name, and we come together under God, and then the honeymoon, you know, sex and all this specific union with God and marriage, if you're thinking supposedly the right way, according to the world's eyes of marriage. But the way we're looking at it, then what's marriage? What's marriage other than committing to a special relationship? Because if there's no commitment to special relationships, then essentially we here are all in holy relationship. What's the purpose of marriage? You know, bringing everybody that's been ever in your life bring them here, and if this room gets bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, you know, what's the purpose of marriage? So does God consecrate marriage? Or does the ego consecrate marriage? So does God consecrate marriage? Consecrate or consummate. There is an image that marriage... In the Catholic tradition, consummate means you've had sex with. Right. Well, first I'm saying it's under God, and then you have sex and consummate. So we're getting a little bit deep here, but the point is that it just hit me, what is marriage is the question. What is marriage? Very simple. Let's not go too deep, but what is marriage? And again, we want to put it into perspective. In the consciousness where the world seems to be, marriage seems to be a very culturalistic and very hopeful thing. In other words, Jesus, when he spoke in the Bible of marriage, he was not with downgrading tons of voices. It was like, this was something that was good. And again, in context of history, so to speak, if you wanted to put it into that, where basically there was armies that would go and raid other villages with rape to women and pillage and then move on, conquer another city, vacate, rape the women, move on. I mean, you know, talk about this total going for the pleasure and the sensation and talk about lack of commitment to the nth degree. That would be what the barbaric kind of times of the world would be like, and certainly what seems to be marriage were two people commit to a relationship. You know, they sometimes say, so that's the upar or they commit to try to come together and love each other and cherish each other and honor each other. That's a big step from rape and pillage. And from what we're talking about here, again, that whole idea of marriage so that's the upar involved bodies and there's a much, much higher meaning of marriage than what's the traditional view of marriage. So what we're talking about is aiming to that much higher one. We're not trying to put down marriage as it's seen in this world but we're talking about really elevating it up to see that asking the Holy Spirit to come into our relationship and have no purpose other than God and let go of all idols. That's, wow, that's kind of a marriage that we're looking towards. Thank you. I was just going to say questioning it isn't throwing it out, it's saying, ah, get marriage. Not at all. What the hell does it mean anyway? It's just questioning what does it really mean and let's raise it way up and look at it from a much higher perspective. And then you can also look at what is divorce. This person. Yeah, that's the same thing. I mean, look at it from a much different perspective and get a much different view of it. Okay, look at it defining. Okay, but before you go further I don't understand if bodies aren't real and why we're concerned about this. About? About relationships because if everything is in our mind then why do we have to look at these things? Well, it's redefining it. In other words, we talked about earlier how we, in this world, relationships are defined in terms of bodies that when you talk about coming together whether people living together or being married or working out a committed relationship, a significant other relationship, it has to do with these bodies seeming to come together. That's where I get confused because it seems like one day we're saying one thing and then the next day we're saying, well, they are sort of real if we think they are. Yeah, and we're starting there. The only thing I'm trying to do is get to the point that they're not dismissed entirely. You have to start with something and we're going to be moving towards a holy relationship. To really kind of what you're saying too is the ego basically doesn't care if the minds are kept private but the key ingredient for the ego in its relationship to use its definition is that the bodies be together. So that's the ego's key thing. It doesn't care if you maintain separate interests from your spouse or your wife if you have a whole world apart from them, a whole private mind. We're coming at those bodies together. The ego believes that union is joining bodies and of course the confirmation of the marriage to sexual, you know, relationship is even when you talk to people who study relationships they'll look at all those different things like trust, communication. Sex is usually in there somewhere. You know, that's like we've seen there's a fairly important component of these kind of relationships and again to the ego that's the central component. It's not only sex but we could say companionship. Being there together. You know, not being a part of it. Give me some time together under the same roof. Oh, don't be a workaholic. No, come back. And so also the ego sense it believes that its relationship to bodies must be together. It uses guilt to keep the bodies together. You haven't spent time with your children. You're not being a very good father. You know, all you didn't you aren't bringing home the money that I thought you should or, you know, little hooks all those little hooks in trying to keep the bodies together. So really where your question's going is the ego's definition is keep the bodies together keep the minds private. This direction that we're moving in which would be to undo the illusion of that, of the ego would be to oh, I want to join mine. I want to totally communicate. I want to have no private thoughts. Everything's out on the table. I want intimacy so deep and so close that I can feel free to share anything and everything and be loved and accepted and not be afraid that if I share those deep dark secrets that my partner is going to leave or that anybody can even leave me. This is all ego. It's working towards the same. Then ultimately the last I would say that holy relationship which is what we're going to talk about when we've been going would be really just being in tune with the Holy Spirit full time. Now again, how that looks in form is irrelevant. You could have bodies in any way shape or form. In other words, bodies together under one roof. You could have like a prophet or a saint who would wander through the wilderness in total relationship with all that there is because he's in tune with the Holy Spirit. So in that sense, it's a realization that minds are joined or that mind is one and that bodies are totally irrelevant to the whole idea of relationship. And that is consistent with what we've been talking about. So what we're doing here is we're just kind of starting to trace it back towards that. Now how do I explain that to Judy and say Judy? These bodies are irrelevant. We need to join minds and understand how we do that. You know, and I guess I'm going to ask you a question. How do you do that? Very clear yourself. That's the thing where it starts. In other words, in my life as I've gone along, it's been more and more just valuing that communication and pulling the tension away from the body. In other words, a lot of things, like we've talked about elements of special relationship, it seems important for the body to look good. To be with a good looking body is a big part of the self-concept a lot of times. Put your best foot forward and look good. As you go along, it's like more and more, as Beverly was sharing the things about the makeup and diet and different things, size, weight, shape, it's like there's no attention focused on that. Honesty, trust, integrity, those conditions of mind are really raised up is really important. And the focus on the body then attractive, unattractive, sexually attractive, sexually unattractive, dirty, clean. I see all these things on TV, the antiperspirant commercials where the woman comes on and she says if you've got B.O. I want to be around it. I've got all the commercials that are really aimed at the body being a certain way, looking a certain way, smelling a certain way, cologne, cosmetics, being in shape versus being fat and flabby and all of that. It's just starting to say in my own mind I'm not going to raise up the body and emphasize the body or even how much time that body is with me. The word a lot of times is what's your quality time versus quantity time. I'm not going to be in minutes in the hours, in the days that the bodies are together apart. Really I want to just communicate. I want to be able to just lay everything out and totally reveal myself and in the process see that I am I am one with everything, you know, revealing. And if minds are what are connected in this relationship then there's both quantity and quality time at all times. Regardless of the form of body. It's all in the attention. If my attention is and I'm thinking about the body thoughts and I'm thinking, oh I miss so and so. I used to think that was a big important component of relationships. Just finding love, finding true love. You're with somebody and they say, I don't really care if you're here or not, you know. That's not a good sign. Your relationships on the rocks, they're pining and they're saying I miss you honey and I count the hours when you're away or maybe even a mix. Like, well I don't want it to be obsessive here. You know, get a life, but I do want you to miss me some. You know, Jesus is saying the whole missing part is thought of bodies again. When will that body be back with this body? When will I be able to hold that body again? When will I feel their touch all raised up as a crucial important and the communication is not? But what I hear Linda saying, which is something that Becca brought up the other day and probably does seem to be addressed, is in that diagram where there's these little circles out on the side, okay, we've been talking about those circles don't exist because bodies don't exist and yet we're really putting a lot of emphasis on relationship right now. So where is, what is the purpose, is to see that there are no private minds. In other words, all those dots that we drew in there as part of the wrong mind, as part of the ego system, that's what the basis of the ego system is, is that everybody has a private mind. Or as I defined it early on whenever they're asking me, what do you mean by assigning the properties of the body to the mind? That's exactly what private mind is. The bodies are separate. There's no doubt about that. And so the properties of the body separation are assigned to the mind and therefore it seems like everybody has a private mind of their own. That's not true. That's what we're coming to see in true relationship is that there's really nothing apart from my own mind. I may think I see dream figures in relationships. How could they ponder about their thinking? Or even with pets we talked about with cats and dogs. Do they have choice? What are they thinking now? Why is he so undecided? I don't know if your question is totally answered. I guess what I was hearing you say is something that I used to feel and that is like, okay, we say bodies aren't real but then in the next breath we're talking about bodies. So which is it? Are they real or are they not real? What's the deal? I mean it seems inconsistent sometimes because in the way things are. Here we all sit but we're not real. Is that what you're thinking? No, I'm thinking