 This session, we are happy to introduce Community Virtual Library Resource Library Opening in 2019. Our speaker today is Bethany Winslow. Valerie Hill is unable to be with us today. Bethany is an instructional designer at San Jose State University. Welcome all. Let's begin the session. Bethany, over to you. Well, thank you very much, Lear, for that very kind introduction. Hi, everyone. And thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited to tell you a little bit about this project. And before I do, I'm certainly hoping you guys can hear me okay. And I do want to tell you a little bit about how I came to be standing here today or actually sitting next to Lear. But because I think it will help put some of this into context, some of this presentation. First of all, I want to mention that I'm actually not a librarian. I'm an instructional designer and I work with faculty to support them to leverage technology with their teaching. And I just happen to be very passionate about the idea of exploring virtual worlds for collaboration and learning. And secondly, this is my very first time presenting in world. And I'm really thankful for what I've come to see firsthand as a really supportive community. But I will admit, I sometimes feel totally out of my own element here as a lot of this technology is really over my head. And even though I get feeling sometimes a little overwhelmed, being involved in this project is really me living what I preach to my faculty. And I think it's about modeling an approach to digital literacy that's really essential in today's world in it. It means I have to be open to floundering and even failing, even publicly. So I think that's a really big part of learning. That's certainly a theme I've heard before from some of you. So I really thank you for keeping that in mind that I kind of am a newbie. I'm not trying to give my power away, but I just wanted to kind of put that out there that I'm always trying to learn and grow. So I want to tell you a little bit how I came to be here because I do think it's relevant for this particular presentation. I started playing around in Second Life about four years ago, and all I did was play house tricking out my linden oceanfront land and my avatar. Because even though I could see the potential for teaching and learning when you connect with people in a persistent space, it was really hard to walk, talk, and kind of keep track of the chat threads and troubleshoot my mic. And I really just didn't network with people. But I went looking for a lot more land because Second Life is expensive. And so I was looking for an open source alternative to Second Life. I found Maria Kolarov's hypergrid business website. I tried to install Sim on a stick, unsuccessfully. But I did successfully install Fred Beckhausen's dreamgrids install. And it was one year ago probably to the day that I attended this very session, this very conference. And I attended CVL's presentation because Elise, the co-director, I saw San Jose State University next to her name on the presenter list. So when I met them, Valerie and Elise, the director and co-director of the Community Virtual Library, I happened to mention to them that I had attended the last few of Thurza Embers' hypergrid safari expeditions. So Valerie wanted me to take the lead for this project. And it's ironic because I'm one of the last hypergrid safaris. I had chatted at Thurza that I would love to help resurrect it and lead expeditions, but that I was a newbie and I didn't know what I was doing, so I couldn't. So here I am one year later, the lead on this project, and excited to tell you about it. I feel a little bit unqualified around so many people or so much more knowledgeable. But I want to show you a few things about the project. But starting out with our mission here, this is just one of several of the Community Virtual Libraries project. We've got several, and we partner with other nonprofit organizations to support the educational use of virtual worlds. And we really couldn't do any of this without working with other people. So it's in keeping with real world librarianship, our mission for the hypergrid resources station is to really help people who are new to virtual spaces beyond Second Life and help them to get the most out of them. And to also help different educational organizations be connected with one another. So we really want to provide resources and tips for navigating across virtual world grids. We want to have portals that connect to persistent virtual locations that are primarily educational oriented. And we envision this hypergrid resources library to be modeled after a space station. I'll show you some screenshots in a bit. But essentially this is like a fixed hub that facilitates visiting these different worlds. And we need to make it easy for people to digest the background information on the main concepts on the terminology and the history of hypergridding and having some different portals to jump from one grid to another. But it bears mentioning right here that I know that hypergrid hubs with portals already exist in multiple places and I'm sure I haven't even visited them all. So before anything else I want to mention that it's really important to us at CVL to not reinvent the wheel. But there's two distinctions that I want to make here. And the first is that hypergrid hubs that are maintained by a single person can be really problematic for the same reason it'd be problematic if there was only one hypergrid hub. It's not sustainable. So this is I think a project that can only be done via an organization so that it can persist beyond its individual members. And secondly our focus is really on connecting worlds that are specifically educational in focus. But I can certainly envision that being a library our project should eventually grow to curate worlds beyond those that are just educational. Now we've actually broken ground on two hypergrid resource stations that will hopefully be able to be connected. And one of those is on the Avicon grid near the Rockcliffe University Library consortium. And the other is on the Kytley grid on Cookie Island near our digital citizenship museum. And we're hoping to host a tour for the virtual world's best practices in education. And that's coming up in the spring really soon. So that's what we're hoping to be able to do. Now as Lear mentioned Dr. Valerie Hill who's the director of the Community Virtual Library was not able to be here today. But what I'd like to do is just give you a little overview on what we're doing kind of why we're doing it. A little history here and talk a little bit about the definitions and terminology as I understand them. And I'll give you a little peek at the space stations that we've just started building. And along the way I'm really hoping that some of you will be inspired by what you see because we certainly are looking to connect and collaborate with you. So in getting started however we need to consider the need for a centralized location to help connect learners, artists, teachers, scientists, etc. And the major reason there's really such a need for this is that you know new virtual worlds provide a lot of advantages beyond what is available in Second Life. And this screenshot shows our library in Second Life but virtual worlds are not really easy to find and particularly if all someone has known as Second Life. People get lost navigating from one virtual world to the next and things like downloading different world viewers and juggling multiple avatars on different grids. This just adds to an enormous amount of confusion. So through our interrelated initiatives only one of which is the HyperGrid Resources Library. We really want to be part of the solution to this dilemma. So our HyperGrid Resource Library will need to have you know directions and tips for moving across worlds and will hopefully make searching for events and simulations and communities across different grids easier to find and connect with. And I'm not sure if it'd be probably a little bit of a conflict of interest but I think we should have a little bit of information about this in our library in Second Life. Because I think a lot of people are not even aware there's an alternative. But finding specific virtual worlds is really just the beginning because this initiative all of our initiatives really at the Community Virtual Library are about helping connect users to relevant communities for real and effective relationships to be developed. Because that's really what's essential if we're going to grow a thriving and truly sustainable metaverse. So similarly we also need to help people understand the terminology which of course is always going to evolve. Provide instructions or revise existing instructions because the OpenSim platform and viewers and how we use these tools these change over time. And we need to document and archive the history of grids how they've been used or how they were used for education. And so really only by joining together in crowdsourcing with different areas of expertise is this project even doable. One of our most important partnerships is our connection with Avocon. And one of our branches of the Hypergood Resources Library is on Avocon near the Rockcliff Library. Educators who are new to virtual worlds beyond Second Life really need a kind of a starting location. And this might be a good starting location in the sense that we would have some information that maybe helps new visitors to understand the many different organizations that are in world that work together to build this the sustainable metaverse that we're trying to build. And there needs to be some information that's organized and presented in an easy to understand format. So for example we would need some posters that illustrate you know the relationships like what's shown here. You know the community virtual library has a bunch of different projects but we're under the new media arts organization. So some of this kind of information is what we'd want to we'd want somebody who's new in in these virtual worlds to see. So our plans for the Hypergood Resource Station is directly connected to our other main projects all three of which support our mission. They just do it in slightly different ways. Elise Donovan Jones is a graduate of San Jose State University School of Information and she manages the virtual worlds database which is our effort to connect virtual world communities but do it outside of virtual worlds. So it's how we hope to connect non virtual world users to our resources. And we really want to lure more educators in right. Elise worked with other students in her program at San Jose State in her digital curation class to decide on the platform that they use. And it's the hope that this database could preserve information about virtual worlds because they're constantly changing. And even when virtual worlds no longer exist as librarians we really need to have an archive of a virtual world history. So along with that database another related project is our digital citizenship museum on Kitely. And perhaps some of you have already heard Valerie speak about the museum and about her passion for digital literacy. But I just wanted to share on a couple little tidbits on this topic because it too is a critical element for all of us in virtual worlds in terms of a development of a really sustainable metaverse. Valerie frequently mentions the term trans literacy and how it's a little intimidating for traditional instructors. And virtual librarians are trying to embrace a new literacy of the meta. And she had some presentations I have on this next slide here. An image that relays that this new literacy kind of encompasses the traditional understanding of how information has been generated and shared but it goes far beyond that. So this graphic is about that balancing act between the old world literacy and how it's connected to websites and databases. And then there's the content that we're creating and we're sharing in virtual worlds. So this is really quite a big task. So the digital citizenship museum again which is related is a hub where people can come and learn about these new literacies. And in the museum we have a dozen exhibits on a lot of different topics. Avatar authenticity and cybersecurity are just a couple and we've got some resources there that are curated by Dr. Marie Vans. And although we want to examine the history for hyper grid jumping and contacting educators across grids, librarians and colleagues will need to collect and share resources in a really organized manner. And we want to provide a history of hyper grid jumping as well as some definitions and terminology. And a lot of that needs to be synthesized and presented in multiple different ways to be accessible. And first of all we need to answer the main question for somebody new. What is the hyper grid? And a good person to help answer this is Therza Ember from what I know she's certainly one of the pioneers. And she described the hyper grid as a still evolving extension of the open simulator software that was originally developed by Crystal Lopes in 2008. But it essentially allows for different grids to be connected to each other and for avatars that belong to one grid to be able to jump to another one effortlessly. And so here's some content that Therza created. This kind of content is visual and it's fabulous. We'll want to synthesize this and make this available in a text format that would be accessible for and present in multiple different ways. But as an instructional designer, I'm always thinking about how I would explain this to somebody who's new to all this. And even though my understanding is still rudimentary, the way that I think about this is like jumping around the different pages of a website versus surfing the entire internet. So I would describe teleporting to be like using the hyperlinks on a website to navigate from page to page on that one site. And that hyper gridding is like jumping off that website entirely to an entirely different one. So I mention all this because for many of the attendees here, this is really easy stuff for most of you. But for somebody who's new, seeing that the Digital Citizenship Museum is on the Kitely grid and then the region is Cookie 2. And then there's something else on Avocon. That doesn't necessarily make sense to people. So even for somebody who's spent a number of years in second life, this is not intuitive. So another thing that can be confusing for somebody who's new is that there's other hyper grid hubs out there. But then they might not always be maintained. For example, Hyperica was OpenSim's oldest dedicated collection of hyper grid hubs. And that was, I think, created by Maria Karolov. And I've been there a few times. I think I've been there a few times. And sometimes things worked and I could hyper jump and then other times they couldn't. So and I'm not sure if that's a matter of maintenance or the fact this technology is still not completely stable, but probably a combination of the two. But again, our intention with this hyper grid resources library is to create a centralized location that's really not maintained by an individual but by an organization. So someplace that's really going to be continually updated and maintained for the long term. But there are a lot of pioneers upon whose work we're really building. And I want to synthesize some of the information that's already out there. This is a screenshot of a tonic for the headaches of hyper gridding. I just loved this. But again, we don't want to reinvent the wheel. We want to consolidate information and have it organized in a way so that it's really friendly for the newbies. But we would be so indebted to so many people and we've got to synthesize. And I have a kind of a partial list of people who I've come to find in the last year have been really critical in terms of my own learning. So obviously Lear Lobo is an amazing support. I know Divacanto has done, I mean, this is the software is built on her code. Selby Evans has been an amazing source of information. Thurza Ember, of course, is the first person that sort of introduced me to the idea of doing this hyper gridding stuff. Maria Kolarov and Fred Bukhausen. So I'm sure now you want to see, well, what are you guys building? So let me show you what we're working on. Using the theme of a space station. It's a useful metaphor for hyper gridding. I think the stations in both locations are going to have similar content in terms of helping new visitors to understand what hyper gridding is. They'll look a little different, just like a train station in Chicago is going to look different than a train station in New York or anywhere else in the world. But we've got two stations that are under construction and they're both up in space. And both of them will have a series of areas that when a visitor arrives, they'll kind of navigate through an area that has some presentations and instructions with written explanations. And the most important thing is that somebody won't be forced to navigate through all that just to get to the portals. So we really want to provide simplified information that's presented very sequentially. But the idea being that it's very easy to get at a glance and then they can go into more detail only if they want to. So the user will determine how much information they get. So instead of going to a place where there's a whole bunch of, you're just wandering around, there's a whole bunch of posters all over the place, that's overwhelming. So as an instructional designer, my first priority is to try and present information as useful as a way as possible. So I really think this space station theme helps evoke the kind of spirit of adventure like Star Trek. We're seeking to explore new worlds and connect with communities. And so I want to show you just a few more details about the spaces. And this is just what we have planned out. I have the space stations are built, but there's certainly a lot of other work left to be done. But our space on Kitely, there's a teleport pad on the ground and a very ugly poster that I haven't been able to edit very well. But the actual space station, I built my own first time, built a little skybox and wallpapered it. I was pleased with how that came out. But that's the exterior and the interior shot. So there's still not some of the content that we need to add in here. And then of course our other hyper grid resource library is going to be located on Avocon. So the screenshots here of our space on Avocon. There's the area on the ground and then there's a building up in a space bubble. And then of course at the very top, you can see there's a collection of cool looking portals that you can jump to other worlds. These are not enabled yet. I wish I knew how to enable them just yet, but I'm still working on that kind of thing. But in each station, regardless of where you are, there's going to be sort of a sequence of information that's available, kind of walk you through. And you'd start out in sort of a main entrance area, which we'd need very clear signage so that they know where they are and how they got here. And things like a very general, very brief welcome message, maybe some maps or visuals that help them to understand. For instance, the information on the ground that tells somebody how to navigate. That's really, really helpful. We'll also have things like a floor directional arrow so that somebody knows really directly how to navigate through the space and get where they want to go. But a couple different sort of areas. Ideally these would have been like sort of a series of individual little rooms, but these buildings that I had, this is what I could find. I kind of scoured and wished I could have found something bigger or laid out a little different, but this is what we're working with right now. But in a series of kind of rooms that you'd go through, the first little area along this path would be a newbie start here kind of thing with a little bit of information about just sort of the background maybe a little bit about what hyper gridding is. This mock-up here that Mel created is just sort of a mock-up of explaining kind of how these grids are all related. So that's not, that's just a mock-up, but information like that that's presented that's really simple to kind of get in a glance. And then of course if somebody wanted to drill down, there'd be links to like further reading or maybe a short video or other things like that. But moving from the sort of the newbie start here area, somebody would keep walking and the second area would be sort of a where do you want to go. And this sort of would expand on the different platforms and grids that are out there, how they're related. Of course our focus is really on the educational aspect, but the explanation that this emerging metaverse is a series of connected grids that are all kind of independent. I think that was the hardest thing for me to understand when I first got into this world. The idea that I hyper-jumped and I might be on somebody's personal website or personal like their computer or their own server. But this great image, I hope I credit it correctly. I found it here. I think Mal Burns created it. I love this graphic explaining about Second Life as just one planet among many. So where do you want to go would explain some of the different places that are available to you. And also an explanation like other virtual worlds like Fortnite and Minecraft are closed or proprietary. Those don't work with hyper-gridding. And then there's sources of confusion. We want to make sure that we kind of anticipate sources of confusion and be able to help alleviate some of that confusion. So this would be sort of an explanation that just because you go to different places, you might sometimes see the same building or layout. I certainly know that I've gotten confused about that. I think there's OAR files that are shared in different places and you see the same building and you say, wait a minute, where am I again? So that kind of explanation I think is really important for somebody who's new understanding that content might be shared and modified, but you can get very confused about sometimes where you are or where you were. And just right there, that's a really tall order. And then of course we'll need to go into a little bit of the history. Like people want to know what's the backstory on the history of hyper-gridding. So this would be an area where they just get just a little bit of information. Of course we'll present just some of the basics of the history of how this has changed over time. And then of course they can drill down and maybe we'll have links to Thursday Embers blog, for example, on the hyper-grid safari. So somebody wants to learn more about the backstory. But that kind of information needs to be presented in sort of a way that a person doesn't get overwhelmed and sort of surf around from website to website, things that are not used anymore, that kind of thing. So organizing just the whole history of this is one enormous little sub-project of this project. And then moving on, we're getting closer and closer to going to where the portals are. But embracing the adventure sort of builds upon the sources of confusion. Because I think this area is going to be helpful to people who actually are getting ready to start venturing out and exploring different worlds. But the explanations of things about when you hyper-grid, things actually go wonky or things crash. That is coming from second life. That's not going to be intuitive to somebody why a place, a world exists one day. And the next day you go back to the exact same location and the hyper-grid doesn't work. So explaining the kind of the why behind all of that. And I don't know the why behind all of that. I'm still learning all this. But that's certainly part of what we're trying to accomplish with this station, this hyper-grid resources space station library. And then of course the final area that we'll evolve over time is a transporter room. I wish I could make a real transporter room like Star Trek. I think that'd be cool. But we have these cool portals. I can't remember the movie that those are from. I'm sure we've all seen it. And this will evolve over time. This screenshot here is just the portals that I have that are on Avicon grid, the space station in Avicon. And the very first task of course is to connect the community virtual library hyper-grid resource station, the one from Kytley to Avicon, Avicon back to Kytley, right? And then of course to the Digital Citizenship Museum on Kytley and then other places. Certainly the locations that we have on the virtual world's database, Elise's database is going to be what we want to connect to. So hopefully this glimpse of what we've got going on here in the works is something that excites you because our projects and in particular this resource library, the hyper-grid resources, this would not be possible unless it was crowdsourced developed. Because I'm just one person. I certainly don't know anything. So please let us know if any of our projects are of interest to you and you'd like to get involved and to volunteer. For the virtual world's database, we're still always looking for people who are willing to visit communities, reach out to leaders and make sure that the information in the database is accurate. For the Digital Citizenship Library, we certainly have more exhibit space still available. Do check out the exhibits. I think there's a dozen of them, but we have plenty more space. So if there's something there that's missing and you want to contribute, let us know. And lastly, for the hyper-grid resources library and space station, I really want to try and network with more of you. There's so many people in this community who I've not yet met who are already leading hyper-grid adventures or did it five years ago. You've already built hyper-grid hubs. I'm certainly learning my way around here. I'm looking for people I can learn from and I can res a pre-built teleporter on the ground to connect it to my wonky skybox. But beyond that, I'm trying to document the whole experience as I go because really one of my focus, the focus I have for doing this is really to help facilitate wider adoption among faculty. I'd like to get more faculty involved in virtual worlds. So please feel free to contact me in any virtual worlds. I'd be honored to be invited to any kind of related events you host. And do let me know if you have any interest in helping us to make this emerging metaverse more accessible for the newbie adventurer. So if we have time here for questions, I'm happy to help. We do. Yeah, okay. And we have a couple of questions. So if you're thinking of a question, please put them in the chat log and I'll organize those as well. The first one is from Lucena Wisdomseeker. And she asks, will you be able to point people to the social media where OpenSim events are publicized? I think that would definitely be something that we would want to do. And I don't know how that would be done, but because we're connecting in world and then outside world too, right? People have blogs and social media events. I'm still connecting to things like I just joined another Google group, a hypergritting, you know, I think a Google Plus group or something. Yeah, I think that's part of it. But so that's a good idea. Great. And the next question is about what is the link for adding a grid to the community virtual libraries, virtual world database? I put in a link earlier, by the way, so if you have to look it up. And the one I put in showed them something about it, but not the link on where to add grid information. You know what? Let me see if I have that handy. I have the virtual world's database. Let me see if I have that link handy. There's a form, and I'll put this in the chat right here. Great, great, great. This is a great opportunity to collect more data. Plus you want to put this in your booth too. Because if you have the link in the booth, as people go by the OSCC Expo 3 region and look at your booth, which is just in the back. Let me see where it is. It's booth number nine in the back side of that part of the grid. They'll be able to get more information about it as well. Yeah, there's a link to the community virtual world's database in there as well. There's some information you can connect with us at space number nine. Great. And I have some other links too. If anybody want, let me see here. Just a couple like the community virtual library. But that database that I think is definitely bookmarked that one. And definitely contact Elise if you want to get involved with the database. There's different things we need help with. And in any way that you're inspired, we should all be kind of connecting together so that we're not reinventing the wheel as Valerie says. Now it is very late for some of our European partners right now. But when they watch the video later, they may be interested in getting connected for some of the curation or at least listings for some of the arts. Yeah, okay. So they want to check in because imagine we have such a repository of not just regions and sites, not just locations. We have content. We have content creation. We have the arts and creativity. We have museums beyond the digital museum. And so you have this amazing opportunity to connect us all. Yes. And it also occurs to me that I mean other people are trying to do the same things too. So we can work together. I heard Fred talking about with his dream grids installed. I need to talk to him about the next stage that he's working on to hopefully have like a knowing what is up and live at any given moment. That's kind of exciting. That's right. That's really important too because when regions go down, it doesn't make a difference how good your hub is. And I don't mean go down in the sense of crashing. But I mean, you know, when there's maintenance or whatever. But Gimisa also posted a few links for you and I'm going to make sure to capture that for you because he had some links to various teleporters, other repositories and also how to detect when one is down. Let's see. And then we had something from, oh yes, Lesina, Lesina Wisdomseeker says, do you use this name in all the grids? I would like to friend you, Bethany Wilson, with my Avocon avatar. In other words, the person she's not logged in with right now. See, we have so many multiple identities. I have like nine Lear Lobos. Okay. And of course, not all of them will be your friend, but they would like to be. Yes. Yeah. That's part of the challenge that trying to figure out one moment. Where was I logged in? Yeah. I'm Bethany Winslow in both Kitely and Avocon, just Bethany Winslow. And those are the two I'm probably most, and I'm in OpenSim as well as just Bethany W. And then Bethany, the virtual version in Second Life. Did you see Jose and my apologies if I'm saying your name wrong there. Oh. We've been friends for a long time. But anyway, he says a virtual world avatar's name database would be so very handy. That's a great idea. You know, a lot of people cite a little paper I wrote with Jeff Hiles in 2007 or 2006 that identified a bunch of the movers and shakers at the time in education by their avatar names. And then I let them self-select whether they disclose their real life names, right? And then some of their regions and stuff. And I hesitated when I started to publish it because I didn't want to out anyone. So I contacted each person and said, do you give permission for me to include you in this? Because I said, it's really important for people to know how to reach out, how to contact people. And of course, I didn't necessarily publish all of their contact info unless it was public. But, and they gave permission. Those two pieces are so important. And then of course, Mal Burns has been asking the question about the GDPR. Of course, I get the acronym wrong all the time, but essentially European privacy. But now it's everyone's privacy, isn't it? And so now we think about that. Do you guys have plans for when you put information in and then later the custodian or owner of that information decides to pull it out? Do you have a plan on how you're going to handle that? Actually, I can't say that I know the answer to that question. That might be a question better for Elise or Valerie. I would imagine that there would be because I know privacy certainly is important to all of us. And there's some information in the digital citizenship museum, things on cybersecurity. Privacy is certainly an issue. So I'd like to say that yes, I know that we have a mechanism for that, but I actually don't know the answer to that. And Beth adds that an avatar named Database obviously doesn't have to link to a physical world or our actual names, and that's absolutely true. It's just Beth, if you had contact info, eventually we can kind of drill down and figure out who you are. So it gets a little tricky. We have to think about that. We can certainly just list people's names, right? Name and grid or where they thrive. Yeah, no, it's tricky, definitely. Well, thank you. Are there any other questions before we wrap here? Let's see. I'm looking at the chat to make sure I didn't miss anyone. Valerie Ormstein mentions that it would require authentication of each name, but it's possible. And that's, of course, if the name was active and you were going to actually contact them or friend them or do whatever. Whereas I was just thinking of listing so that at least we could go visit the grid and then make contact. But that's very interesting, having that cross-grid kind of communication. Yeah, like a phone book, Beth. Yeah, with that meanwhile. Yeah. I don't know what the answer to some of these questions are because this is all a new literacy. I mean, the issues of privacy are old, but then how the issues we have around them in virtual worlds is there's a lot of new technology that, yeah, it's kind of hard to kind of think about all this. Our last question it looks like is, where would one find a copy of the Stargate you are using? Is it open source? Yeah, I wish I could tell you exactly where I got the copy of the Stargate. It's like the shopping center or somewhere on, well, from Avocon. I think I was given things I could use on Avocon. So it was on Avocon and we had some, and they're not activated yet. I want to learn how to activate them, but I could probably find the answer to that, Silver. I'm sorry, I don't know the, oh, copies on Hyperica Grid. Somebody just chatted saying copies are, the original copies are on Hyperica. Awesome. Any last thoughts before we wrap? I don't mean to rush anyone by any means. Well, thank you. We really appreciate you coming and, you know, for a first presentation, I've given 267, right? This was awesome. Oh, thank you very much. My first was not nearly so good. Thank you very much. Yeah, this is really wonderful. Well, I'm looking to present on this topic, somewhat on this topic to the, for any of you who do go to, I just came back from, oh, the online learning consortium conference in Orlando. I just got back from that and I want to next year in 2019 to present on what people are doing in virtual world, basically with, on the open simulator platform. So I'm planning to present in the real world on this, too. So, yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Let's see. Frans Charming mentions, he designed more of the doorway for the OSCC grid. As the Stargate, it always bothers him in regards to intellectual property. So that's something. Oh. Oh, and probably because when something is too close to the original thing, and we call it by the same name, we sometimes get into digital rights issues, right? And intellectual property. That is, that is, that's a good point, Frans. Thank you for making that. Yeah. Well, thank you, Bethany, for a terrific presentation. Thank you very much, everyone. If there are more questions and comments, please keep peppering them into the chat, but I'll go ahead and wrap to get us set for the next session.