 a repatriation recovery action between North Korea and United States, but it was stopped in 2005. So I think it's good that we're starting. And also having, simply having a project that United States and North Korea can do together, right? Over this very, you know, the issue will create, I think, sort of spirit, new spirit or atmosphere of cooperation, right? So you can imagine how those American, you know, the soldiers or the NGOs or government can go to North Korea and then work together. So there. And the one, the second important thing is about, yes, North Korea have just repatriated about 55. You know, it's just the beginning. It's just the beginning. This time North Korea did not have any precondition, did not ask for money. North Korea spent all its own financial resources to, you know, process. So it has to give, again, the credit to North Korea. But instead, what you're hearing from American media is all about, you know, no matter what North Korea does or even Trump does in this case, it is about the immediate criticism. And the third thing, again, I want to point out is that we are sort of in right now at a stalemate, right? At the Singapore summit. And a lot of Korean analysts arguing that this could be, this is time now, United States must have done something, you know, reciprocal, you know, action. So that's, I think, why the significance of this latest repatriation of U.S. soldiers missing in action. But this wasn't a reciprocal action on the part of the U.S. This was another one on the part of North Korea. So what do we see other than the U.S. halting the military exercises? Is there anything else that the U.S. is doing either positive or negative? United States, you know, I actually have kept the score where I share with some of our, you know, people in my group. And I kept the score where United States has done only two, that is, as you mentioned, canceling one U.S. and South Korea working. And North Korea has done about so far as of up to date, I'm skipping by 13 initiative, right? So unilateral proactive action. And so respond, in responding to your question, I would say United States has not really done much. United States has done, you know, again, still insisting on, one way or the other insisting on the complete denuclearization of North Korea. And the one sticking point that we all know, I hope that everybody has a clear understanding, is that North Korea would like to have a strongest possible security guarantee from the United States. So that will mean ending the current state of war. That's what North Korea wants. And I remember last time when Pompeo went to Pyongyang, and there was one North Korea was demanding this security guarantee, but which, you know, Pompeo was not willing to give before the complete denuclearization of North Korea. So that is main. And but if you going back to still about the United States has done only two actions, where North Korea has again and again, again, this long list of proactive action, what it means is that it's time. So what is the main issue here, our priority? The main issue is to end the, you know, the current state of war, start the process of signing a peace treaty. Right. So that I hope that we could have some, you know, have some priority. So I just want to let the listeners know who might have turned in late that we're speaking to Simone Chun, who is a professor, an analyst, a writer, and a an activist around peace in the Korean Peninsula. I'm Medea Benjamin with Code Pink. And we're talking now about what are some of the actions that the US and North Korea have taken. And Simone, you mentioned you said there were two. So one was that the US has halted the military exercises with South Korea. What's the other one that you are referring to? The other one will be the Singapore summit, right? Oh, the summit itself. So one meeting and the suspension of a one war game and one meeting. That's it. So on the negative side, it seems that you have put out something that hasn't been covered in the US press about US military exercises with Japan that are threatening North Korea. Can you explain what that is about? July 27th, that is on the anniversary of a signing of an armistice to halt, you know, halted Korean war. There was a report at this time, actually, Japan released the information a US-Japan joint militaries exercises, which involves, you know, B-52, which actually, you know, this came loaded with the nuclear capability. But in the report says that there was no nuclear weapons was not loaded. So the the reason they provide was to contain or to prepare for any North Korea provocation. Now, the timing is very significant. We're talking with a we are still in this process of repression month. You know, we're trying to have the diplomatic solution seeking diplomatic solution with the North Korea. And also after Singapore summit, but on and special on the day that marks the armistice, the fact that United States and Japan, you know, executed that joint military exercise, it really, I would say this is this is a clear violation of the Singapore's the spirit of Singapore summit, right? And also, as you call the and at the same time, also, while North Korea has, again, with productizing all this initiative, you know, to to for normalization with the United States, that United States not coming forthcoming and it's kind of, you know, responding to North Korea is really, I would say that really the creating a big obstacles. And as I the court here, very, you know, Korean professor, expert on the US, North Korea and Korean relationship. And USC, he said that North Korea is unlikely to move much farther without the US making a move first. So it's now right now it's time for United States to take a concrete action, which I think will should be ought to be a starting process to end this current state of war. And actually, we can talk more about later, though, you know, Pompeo will attending ASEAN foreign ministers meeting this Saturday. And there we can have that will be for the first time, since the Singapore summit, right? We will the three foreign ministers for United States, North Korea, South Korea will be in one place. So I think we should be this week, we should really, really, you know, raise an issue for the to start process ending this war. So when maybe this list that you have that shows all of these initiatives on the North Korean side and only two on the US is something we can put up on the Facebook afterwards. Absolutely. Yeah, I think that is certainly not what you read about in the US press. Yeah. So let me just go quickly go through like I would the list that I have a North Korea a contribute to successful Pyongyang Winter Olympics. Second, successfully held the first into Korean summit with the President Moon Jae-in, which are the historic palm and gem declaration. Third, released American prisoners. Fourth, implementing nuclear again, unilateral nuclear test moratorium. Fifth, implemented again, unilaterally missile test moratorium, close the Pyongyang nuclear test site, dismantled key satellite launching site as SOHA recommended or recommends the return of American troops killed during the Korean war celebrate the 65th of victory day, which was July 27. This time, there's no anti American propaganda banners, right? And finally, North Korea said in their North Korean Central News Agency, they said that they really recommend they really want declaration, swift declaration on the termination of war as the first and foremost process, the first step. So we have this. So North Korea, in other words, they are very concrete, constructive, achievable goal. I think we should pay attention to you. Wonderful. I think that would be a great thing to post for people to have. And now I want to move into another issue, which is, you know, as you well know, I've written and talked about this whole initiative is thanks to the people uprising in South Korea, the election of a president who was elected with a mandate to begin this process, President Moon. So could you talk about what is happening in terms of North and South relations? Have there been these same ups and downs, fits and starts? Or has it been a kind of steady process? Yeah, North and South relations, you know, we has been, there has been very steady. Just two days ago, there was a high level, second high level military talks between North and South Korea. Again, if you look at the Western media, American media, they say, oh, you know, they could not agree. And there was no agreement. So that was a bad. But if you look at with detail, North Korea, both sides that they thought it was a productive there was a typical negotiation process where you, you know, you, you take a step by step approach, what they agree was that truly make the demilitarized zone, DMZ, as a truly like, you know, demilitarized, right? So it's what I'm saying is that a lot of this is actually the most heavily militarized, you and I have been there, have militarized that place. I think when we went to the women cross the DMZ and during the last peace delegation is a Korean, our sisters, Korean sisters, the peace activists, they thought, you know, one dream that we had, well, you know, let's make, create a sort of a physical place like a park, a center or house where we thought, right, women can just, it's like permanently stationed there, right, create. So that was actually one initiative we came out. So I think that could be actually in the creating of the turning transform DMZ as sort of a true peace park, and in fact creating a transforming DMZ as a sort of a for the entire world, the symbol of a peace, right? So I'm not saying that the two Korea agreed on that, but I think there was talk about how transform demilitarized on truly demilitarized place. And that there's North and South Korea now we are there, they are going implementing the interKorean railroad connection, reconnecting the railroad that was disconnected. And there's all kinds of plans for the cultural arts cooperation. And August 11th, there's going to be the actual, the largest or the first, the largest actually correct North Korea is going to, you know, come to the number one, come to Seoul for the workers, what do you call North and South Korean workers soccer match, right? That's going to be really fun. That was also stopped for during this Park Geun-hae Young Park, you know, conserved administration. So this is the idea is that, you know, workers should lead the peace movement, right? So unification workers led unification. So there's all kinds of, you know, exciting news. But of course, the biggest news, you know, which we are coming is August 20, between August 20 and 26, there's going to be the reunion of a separated families. Oh, so that's starting in at the end of August? Yeah, over. So it is really, it's packed. And also, one more thing, August 15th, August 15th is the Korea's, for Korea is the liberation day liberated from 36 years of Buddha Japanese colonization, the end of World War II. Surrender, it depends, surrendering. And so Korea is going to mark this as a sort of North and South Croatia, one inch that is, we, you know, we were one nation, so we want to celebrate the liberation. So there's a lot of, you know, initiative and the, but one thing I would like to point out is that very important. North and South Korea want, I think pretty much majority of Koreans, I, you know, 80 million Korean support the current peace process. I'm confident. And most people in Asia, North and Asia appreciate the current process, probably the entire world appreciate the process. What is that something, one thing that is stopping that is concretely, no matter how much North and South Korea wants, you know, implement expert that accelerates this process, there's one thing that is that that is a sanctions, right, UN, US led and also South Korea is actually constrained to participating. So let's assume the family union to implement those families we need and gathering, you know, you need the, it's a logistic issue, right. And North Korea is a heavily thing. It's literally, if you read the report about the, came out from American Friends Service by, you know, then Jasper, who did the great job of, you know, producing that, creating that report. It's North Korea is currently like almost like economic embargo, it's harshest economic embargo. So, so there's all this this is really a fact that the current Korean, you know, any sort of a repression on and exchanges. So that's the one thing that we can, I think we really have to really address. Yeah, I mean, let's wait, I talked about the sanctions in a minute, but I just want to let listeners know who don't recall this that, that the Trump administration has put a travel ban on US citizens going to North Korea. And while there are supposed to be exceptions for humanitarian workers and a couple of other exemptions, as we saw in the American Friends Service Committee report, it has made any kind of humanitarian programs a lot more complicated. It takes a long time to get these exemptions. It's hard to get exemptions for some of the goods that are deemed to be, quote, dual use. And it's, it's just made the agricultural exchange programs much more difficult, the sending in of medical equipment. So, yes, that is something very concrete that we can push the Trump administration, because those sanctions, the travel ban does end at the end of August, right? And it would have to be renewed by the administration. So that's something concrete we could work towards. But much more important for the people of North Korea are the sanctions in general. And there have been some new reports by the UN that show the horrible situation in particularly in the countryside for children. And sanctions are really creating a situation of lack of food and medicines. And on that level, it seems that these very draconian sanctions are not being adhered to totally by the Chinese. And I wonder how it seems there have been some reports that talk about trade already being initiated or brought back with China. How does that happen when China has agreed through the UN to the sanctions? The China, actually, you're right. There are some report, many reports indicate that China has now renewed some of the economic activities in the border with North Korea. And in fact, China just released a couple of weeks ago, the major, major billions of dollars investment in building those infrastructure. But as you know, actually, what China is doing, and also Russia, as we will also see, there was some sort of a lessening of those sanctions from the Russia side. And China, as you recall, again, to go on back to the United States position, it is not really to really insisting on this maximum sanctions regime pressure does not really benefit anybody does not benefit even the interest, you know, does not even help the interests of the United States. What happened is that, you know, the more hard sanctions that you actually impose North Korea, you know, is North Korea has proven to, to, to survive, right? North Korea, there's this idea of North Korea, the people to North Korea is going to collapse and any, you know, any time soon. But that happened to be wrong. And North Korea has seen people have been in trouble. I mean, I'm sure they're very suffering, but it's very resilient. And there's a lot of also sort of what they develop was there's informal economies, right? North Korea, they develop incantation to survive. And yes, China is renewing its economic activities with North Korea. And I think for the United States, what will happen is, you know, it's really the sanctions regime will continuing, the sanctions will make North Korea more dependent on China. And some in South Korea think that this is all does not benefit North Korea. I mean, people in South Korea think that they want to, you know, help North Korea economically. And they actually want North Korea to depend on South Korea, right? So even if North Korea have less, it has to still maintain its nuclear weapon. If you're economically so interconnected, you're not going to be likely to, you know, use. And so that's, there's less incentive. And also the North Korea, if you look at it right now, from the North Korean side, because the United States still have not done really, that's still insist on the maximum sanctions regime. Many in Korea argued that South Koreans, NGOs, South Korea should be more proactive. And maybe returning to the level of what I would say the humanitarian assistance to North Korea before those, like eight years, before those, the Ingang-Bagyem Park administration, the neo-Kan right in government. So the important point of the importance of that is this, you know, many of those so-called humanitarian aid, even from great American groups, they do not necessarily reach to the most remote places in North Korea. So what South Korean NGOs, South Korean assistance in the past have done was to really help those people who were in the remote areas outside of Korea. So those are the ones that are hurting the most. So I think that at this point, we should really, as you pointed out, you know, one of our groups in the RPS delegation, you know, people who have been to North Korea, you know, about the sanctions regime affect the electricity, you know, this is a modern medicine, you know, we all need electricity, right? But you cannot do, North Korea is not under the heavily sanctions, they can't even operate very simple procedure, you know, the simple thing, penicillin, in the clean water, you know, the American Friends Service point out the report that, you know, people, you know, you can't even build well to have clean water because of all this, the sanctions, right? And one more thing I want to point out, though, is that when I visited those members of Congress, even Democrats, when it comes to maternity issues, they were actually, they were very, they did want to, they were, some of them were shocked about the still the sanctions affecting these, you know, women and children. And they were, and some of the members of Congress, they said, you know, they even never met any American who've been to North Korea. So one of our doctors who have been going to North Korea, and then when you're talking to this, you know, age to the members of Congress, she was, she was blown away, oh my, and at the end of the day, she said, I have never met anybody who've been to North Korea. I mean, and you claim to be, I don't want to be too negative, but the point being, of course, you've never met anybody from North Korea itself. Exactly. So that's why this, you know, how this advocacy work is very, very important. What I found was there's really, really, I would say, even the ignorance, lack of knowledge among people, the lawmakers, there's, they were literally making, writing laws about sanctions, right? And they, I mean, they, they were so uninformed. Well, can you say something about this legislation that was introduced to say that Donald Trump or couldn't remove U.S. troops from, from South Korea? Oh, that was, you know, both the Donald Trump, you know, he didn't say that Donald Trump never said he will, he will, he will, let's say he will withdraw, you know, I will withdraw all those U.S. 30,000, 2,000 American troops, but you're mentioning about, you know, about U.S. troops really, I guess, scared, frightened a lot of lawmakers. So there's now the bipartisan movement going on both House and Senate and preventing, you know, Donald Trump from making any sort of withdrawal of American troops. So the idea being that American troops will therefore eternity in South Korea. And it's, of course, at some point, one thing that I want to point out, a lot of people say when it comes to the truth, they say, well, what if it's going to, it means that basically North Korea wants the, you know, the withdrawal of American troops right away. But that is actually forced in all three North Korean leaders, Kim Il-sung, Kim Jung-in, Kim Jung-in, they all said that. And this is on the record, they said that, you know, American troops for some time, they, they could even after the, let's say, unification, they said they have a role to play, you know, they did not, they demanded that immediate withdrawal of American troops. And one thing or another thing to put their rationale is that if you look at South Korea, what is it? It's surrounded by the superpowers, right? So what they thought, I mean, well, also there's Russia and China, you know. So North Korea leaders position is that U.S. American troops, it may be somewhat idealistic, but it still has a play balancing role, all right, vis-à-vis those even the Russian China. So they never said, you know, peace treaty means that withdrawal of American troops right away. But American sort of propaganda system, even the lawmaker that I talked, they, the first thing they mentioned was, peace treaty means the rejoin of, you know, American troops, no, that is not true. And so, but having, but Congress having, you know, this bipartisan sort of mandate, it is, it is very disappointing. And especially in this time when they could, what I was hoping was more bipartisan, let's say resolution that supports the Singapore summit. Wouldn't that be so awesome? But instead, just every step of that way, they're creating these roadblocks so that Trump cannot move. So the many in Korean analysts saying that the biggest obstacle right now, I'm even reading the, I read the interview done by former unification minister of South Korea, he said that the, he said that the biggest obstacle right now is American media, the New York Times security analysts who are shaping this public, trying to shape the public opinion that this process is not going to work. Trump, it can be Trump, you can leave this precedent to Trump, et cetera. So I think they're really, really wanted to, they really want the American people to, you know, have a, you know, real story about the process and how Koreans are supporting this process. Well, thank you so much for updating us and for ending us on that note to say that the biggest obstacle to the peace process are people in this country who don't want to see it happen either because they are part of the military industrial complex that benefits financially from conflict, or they might be from within the Democratic Party itself that want to see this process fail to use it against Donald Trump. And so I think our job as peace activists, as people who want to support the people on both sides of the Korean Peninsula is to be educating our own media, our communities, and to be putting pressure on our elected officials that we want this peace process to move forward, that this is a positive thing, and ourselves to be very skeptical of things that we read in the media, especially when they quote anonymous sources to say how North Korea is violating an agreement that hasn't even been signed. So thank you so much for enlightening us. I think it will be great to get your list of the U.S. concessions versus those given by North Korea for people to understand that the North Koreans have actually moved forward quite a lot in this process, and what we have to do is to push our own government. Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye, Simun. Bye.