 We're working through a meeting for February 1st of 2022, and we have got a pretty quick agenda here, but we'll jump right into it. Don't forget to put your name in the attendees section of the ACAMD documents. Drop the link in there, and we can drop the link again. And if you have any suggestions to modify the agenda, let me know if there's anything you want to add to it. All right, seeing nothing, let's start out with release updates. So it looks like Vadim did put some updates in there in terms of the latest for OKD, and it looks like that there is a 4.10 code freeze. 4.11 nightlies are being prepared, and 4.10 is now Fedora35 based, and the 1.23 Kubernetes rebase landed expecting 1.22.5 rebase to land in 4.9 so that we could rebase 4.9 to F35. And any questions about that, or anything you want to talk about about that, is that pretty clear? Vadim threw those in there, it was pretty straightforward. We know anything about what's coming in 4.10 and 4.11, because I don't remember anyone saying anything about what's going on for those releases. No, and actually, I think Sandra made a good point, two meetings ago, that we should get ahead of the ball here and start figuring out what is going to be in future releases like 4.10, 4.11, so that we can promote them and basically get ahead of the game as opposed to sort of behind the game or sort of playing catch up in terms of promoting OKD as the OCP releases come up. So let's find out who wants to take that as a task to figure out what is coming in 4.10 and 4.11. Anyone want to take that? All right. Well, I guess I will take it, and then we'll see where that goes. I have to say on that one, I haven't seen the red hat, normally they do a really good presentation about the release, I haven't seen any of that. Yeah, that's why I have no idea what's going on for this, because I don't even think I've seen any external communication about it on the OpenShift YouTube channel or anything. So I literally have no clue what's going on. Yeah, usually they'll have that hour and a half video meeting, and I haven't seen that pop up yet. But OK, well, I will do some investigative work. So anything else on OKD itself? Now moving on to FedoraCora OS updates, let's see something. I wanted to say that in the absence of Timothy, so I'm from the MCO team, and we were very closely with the Core OS team, and we've been kind of doing a lot of work on our enhancement for Core OS layering. We're hoping to get that published very soon. OK, excellent. That is good news. I just ping Dusty to see maybe he'll pop in to the meeting here to talk about any F-cost stuff. Let's see what happens. OK, let's move on from F-cost stuff. Docs update. Brian, take it away. OK, we had our Docs meeting last Tuesday. Again, it was a pretty quick meeting. Nothing really came up with the issues. We did continue the conversation around Slack channels. And I think the conversation was that we want to keep a presence in that Kubernetes Slack channel. There was talk about should we merge the Dev and the user channels, so we just have one Slack channel because we don't really have a Dev sort of stream going on, and there's a lot of confusion in the community about where to post. And most people end up cross-posting just everywhere to try and get responses. So that was one of the discussions. No movement on the community survey. We need to chase that up. Gritty had been away, so hopefully we can move that next meeting. And then a conversation that did come up was, as we moved to the new repos, is there a need to have the separate community repo? At the minute, we have a community repo in the OpenShift org, which has five documents in it. So as we move to an OKD organization out of the OpenShift organization, there was a discussion, and again, I think we were going to defer to Diane and just ask if there is any reason why that needs to be kept separate or any sort of reasons why it was set up that way. If not, we could just merge that into the OKD repo. I think in there, there was like a membership list, and then there was the Code of Conduct within that one repo. What else did we talk about? Oh, yeah, there was an interesting discussion within Red Hat. There had been a meeting around setting up a new subgroup for the Operator Catalog. There's obviously some movement going on around creating an OKD version of the Red Hat OCP Catalog. And I think that's probably a reasonable conversation for this group to actually, how do you want to handle that, who should be on or who wants to be on it and things like that. So I'll defer that conversation. And I think that's all that we really looked at in the document eating. Yeah, and we'll take the Slack channel thing as a separate item, new business in a second. For context, there was a meeting just under two weeks ago that Sandro organized that was basically like, what's the roadmap? The virtual folks wanted to know what the roadmap is for OKD so that they could do their planning accordingly. And in that meeting, there was lots of discussion about operators and Operator Hub, Community Catalog, OKD Catalog. And it seems like folks are leaning towards the idea of an OKD specific catalogue. But as Brian said, like, well, who's going to be involved? How do things get vetted? Do we have access? There's also questions to that. So the idea was that the folks who are interested are going to get together. I've been engaged with Christian Hernandez on some of the GitOps pipeline questions that I had. And he asked, well, is your thought that you'd want this to be in the Community Catalog? And yes, if not, at the very least in the Community Catalog, but ideally in a new separate OKD catalogue. Yeah, and I think one of the big comments about having them in the Community Catalog is that would cause confusion for OCP users because then it's the two versions of each Red Hat operator, one coming from the OCP behind the user accounts firewall and then one in the Public Community Catalog. And that wouldn't be a great user experience. So that's why there is talk of a separate OCP and OKD catalogue. So we wouldn't get that duplication of operators coming from the Community Catalog for OCP users. So I'm interested. I think Brian voiced an interest. Bruce voiced an interest in sort of tracking this down and whatnot. So we're going to create a shared document and just start putting in any information we can gather about this and the context of people that we're talking to and see if this will fly as an idea. So folks are interested, just put your name in this particular agenda item if you're interested in sort of participating in that sub-conversation. I don't know if we're going to do like a full on like sub-working group or what I think it'll depend on what we find out after our initial exploration of, you know, are we able to have a separate OKD catalogue? Do we get to maintain it in some way? You know, once those questions get answered, I think it'll determine the workload for people. Any questions on that aspect? Comments on that? Okay, now let's keep moving on to... Next up is... Oh, and by the way, Diane does have now the credentials to the Twitter. She got them from Drity, but Diane is on vacation, so we don't have direct access for Twitter yet. Diane, I haven't arranged a handoff so that more than just her and Drity have the credentials. But then we can start utilizing the Twitter. So issues. Are there any issues in the OKD repo that stand out that folks want to talk about? It seems like a lot of them are really old. We haven't really had any new issues pop up. It's just me, but I'm not really seeing anything in there recent or worth talking about. I guess that's good. Maybe they all got resolved. Anything in terms of the discussion items? Anything stand out in terms of discussion items? We've got alert manager stuff. Someone else was mentioning alert manager stuff. That was you, right, Bruce? You had some alert manager issues as well? Yeah, no, when I upgraded to the latest version on my test cluster, which was going from, I think, the 12.12 version to the one that just came out. It went through everything perfectly, updated all of the operators, all of the nodes. And then finally, the alert manager got in a crash cycle. And this is like the alert manager main pods, which each have five containers, so they seem to be fairly complicated. But in any case, they all were crashing with about a six line message in the logs saying that it was missing a port on my email address. And so in my spare time, I haven't had a lot of minutes to chase it down. I'm trying to find the affiniting amul that has the partial information that wasn't complete. I was also, of course, chasing the docs to see if there should be configuration that was necessary, that hadn't been necessary before, but couldn't find anything yet. So it's still in progress. And I haven't quite gotten to the point of putting a discussion up. All right. And I see we've got that. Someone else has a discussion item on that. We've also got some stuff with operators stuff. Brian, you put one in on an operator. Which one was that? Yeah, I noticed that it looks like within the community operator hub installed on OKD and 4.9, there's now a dependency to the Red Hat Marketplace for the defile operator, which obviously OKD doesn't have access to. So even though the J operator should work, the eclipse of J operator should work, it doesn't anymore because of that dependency. So I'm guessing that's something that's been done for OCP that's just been pushed into the community for OKD into that catalog, which I think then goes back into the whole catalog, operator catalog discussion for OKD. Right. Now, who would we contact for this particular one to get that looked at? Or didn't we get a name from Diane? We did at the last one, but I don't know if that's for all. Wasn't it just? Yeah, we did. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. As you say, wasn't his responsibility the overall operator hub catalog? Yeah, I think it was. I can't think of the name because it was an S. But we have it written down from the last meeting notes, and that's one of the people that we'll be reaching out. Right. OK, and let's see if there's any other discussions worth noting here. Not really. The release stuff, we do want to promote the release that just came out, the 129 release. So we should do that via Twitter as soon as Diane is back and also maybe through the website and whatnot. New items, shut down the dev slack. So the last person to talk to about this was Vadim to be sure that this wasn't going to ramp the style of any of the Red Hat folks. He's on board. Christian Glanbeck is on board. So I guess we can shut it down. And people say merge it in, but there's really nothing happening there. So it's not like we're merging anything in there. So I guess we will shut. Does anybody have any last thoughts on this before we go and request that it be shut down? The dev slack channel? Sounds good. Yeah, actually, I note that Mike has been doing a really great job of letting people know that it's for dev questions only and it's slated to be deprecated. So that's appreciated. OK, next up is Dockstrup to create a security posture. That's still going to be happening. Send something out for security liaison. I have something out, but without the Twitter, we can't really send. There's no place to send it, I guess. I mean, I guess we could put it on the website. Charo was going to download the stats. Charo's not here. Meeting in the CRC group, that happened, actually. That's done in your hands. Just on that one, is there anything we should do to look at the micro shift? Because I noticed it actually mentions OKD within the project document or within the project site. I'm just wondering, what is the role of CRC versus micro shift? I don't know. That's a good question. Because that seems to be aimed at because one of the challenges we've always said with security containers is the memory footprint. A micro shift seems to be addressing that in a big way. And would that be a better route for us to go down? Is there a need for CRC if we can get micro shift? I know it's an early project. It's not yet sort of released or it is sort of an incubator project. Yeah. I'm a lot more optimistic about micro shift being able to handle these cases than the current CRC. Because the current CRC, I can't even run on any of my computers. I think it would be worth it if we could bring the micro shift people onto the OKD working group, maybe either to give a presentation or a briefing or talk to us about it. Because I am excited for the potential that we could have a new mini shift-like experience using micro shift. Because what we've got now is pretty inaccessible to most people to put it bluntly. Totally agree. Totally agree. OK, so micro shift invite. I'm just going to add this to the to-dos where the other item was. And yeah, I think it's at least invite him to the meeting to talk about it. And then from there, just find out ways in which we can work together. So there we go. All right, that's added to it. And there's a link actually in the meeting notes to the micro shift project or we're thinking. Well, let's see. Brian, clean up the OKD repo of old guides. We need to meet with Vadim on that and decide what needs to be maintained. I haven't had a chance to set up a meeting with the three of us, but we can do so. Diane came to the conclusion that there's really not much we can do in terms of getting the OKD repos from the respective GitHub and GitLab. So we're going to go with OKD-project and start moving things over. Let's see. Get usernames for guides. Right, I don't think Daniel's done that right. And then Vadim. Brian, what did we have for over? What was your task for over? And I'm trying to oh, that's right. That was part of this whole thing. Yeah, I was going to say that I don't know why this is still on the task list because we've got the list. I'm guessing we just don't know where to put it. Yeah, right, exactly. And then define the roles and responsibilities for what we want these people to do. But that's been there a while. And I don't think anyone knows quite what to do with it. Yeah, so let me cross this out. And the question now is, say, this is this GitHub usernames for guides on all platforms. OK, we're going to clean that up a little bit. OK, so we'll find the proper place to put those. And the request is in for matrix. Is there any update on that, Neil? So it's done. The room exists. I got it created last week. And I worked with Kevin Fensley to figure out some of the synchronization stuff. So now people can join the room and stuff, I think, now. Where do we want to put docs about it and things? Because I don't know where we want to put it. The room exists. People can join it. I threw a link into the meeting notes as well. So it's there. Brian, we probably want to add it to the website. Yeah, so tell me what to do or help me figure out where I'm supposed to do it and how and we can get it added. I would say put an issue in the website repo, the okd.io repo. And then Brian can work with you on getting that onto the website. As soon as Diane is back, then we'll put it out over Twitter and link to, we'll probably link to the web page as opposed to linking directly to the room, because we're going to want to have a little bit of pretext about what it actually is, because not everyone is going to know what matrix is. So I think that would be helpful. So Neil, go ahead and put an issue in the okd.io repo and then work with Brian on coming up with a way to sort of wrap some text around the whole matrix thing and where it is, and then we'll promote it once that's done. Sounds good. I'll go ahead and start doing that then. I guess the other thing around there is, I just think as we're shutting down other communication channels, I think we just want to be clear about what we expect to happen there, when users should go there, why they would want to go and sort of install the apps and get access to it and what is there and all of that sort of stuff, because I think having clarity is good. Yes, absolutely. So put that in there for sure. Let's see. What else do we have here? Bostem, 5th and 6th, and OpenShift Commons, February 9th. And there are the devconf items, which happened. And actually, Diane was not able to log into those remotely, so it was just Christian. And a couple of new people that showed up at the docs meeting last week was really cool. We've got three new folks that are interested in participating in this group in one fashion or another. And some of them were involved with presentations at devconf, so very cool stuff. Did I miss anything? Is there anything else we need to talk about? What was the new item about create a Google group for announcements? Oh, right. So the idea was that Sandro put in two instances within a 24-hour period. People were suggesting that folks go to the working group, Google group for user-based stuff, or they've had a posting in the working group. They linked to a posting in the working group email. Like, oh, I know what it was. Sandro linked to Vadim's email about the release, the most recent release. And then there was something else where someone suggested that the best place was in the working group. And so I'm starting to think, is there, do we want to maintain, and this is something that the docs group can, I guess, take up, do we want to maintain an announcement email list, something that actually is pushed to people as opposed to the website and the chat areas? I know everyone's like, oh, not another communications channel, but a push thing people can sign up for, or we can add people or whatever so that they can get notice of new releases and things like that. Isn't that our Twitter account? Could be, yeah. Is that enough? And then just, yeah. That's what Twitter's for in my book. Yeah, I agree. I agree, so. Yeah, I want to shut down. There's too many places. I can't talk about it. What can we do then to get Vadim's releases up on the website so that we don't have to link people to a Twitter post about it? I don't want to, in other words, I don't like the idea of us linking to the working group for users to see that. Like, they should have something a little more presentable, I think, about releases. I think that we need to have a conversation around pipelines and automation because whether it's a GitHub action somewhere or whether we have a pipeline tecton system running. But I mean, theoretically, if we should be able to create an automatic push to a page in the docs repo, which adds it as a banner to the, I mean, we can do something so it's a banner. So it's like latest news banner appears on the front page of the website. Yeah, I like it. Anyone else have any thoughts on this stuff? Well, we'll take it up in the docs group. And first off, we'll have to figure out the technology part and see, like, do we want this to be external? You know, I can offer up a pipeline, a tecton pipeline, but if we can do it with the Git pipelines, just as easy, you know. Yeah, I'm guessing because I saw some announcements that were almost ready to go back into mainstream, get out of Vadim's personal GitHub to do builds and releases. We were ready to reintegrate back into the main. Right. So I don't know whether that causes us additional challenges with doing builds within the Red Hat system versus outside of it, in terms of pipeline. But yeah, I just think, I mean, there is automation that does the release. So as part of that, it'd be great that we could just have an automatic push that updates a banner somewhere. Yeah, we shouldn't have to do manual work to do these sort of things. For sure. All right, we will investigate that. Any last minute things? Let's end this meeting. Because we are, I think we've got everything. Dusty, did you have anything you wanted to add about latest Fedora Core West stuff? Dusty did end up logging in. Is there anything you wanted to add about latest news for F cost that we should? I don't have anything off the top of my head. I know we're about to make a change related to IP tables slash NF tables. But we'll send out an announcement about that shortly. We're basically just switching the default from IP tables legacy to NF tables. I don't. That matches what REL Core OS already does, doesn't it? Right, yeah. So REL8, I guess, decided to bite that bullet early. Obviously, they're looking at supporting things for longer. And so they decided to make that change earlier than Fedora did, I think. And we didn't automatically pick up that change in Fedora Core OS because the way it was implemented was via alternatives. There's some technical reasons why alternatives don't actually get picked up and used correctly in our OS tree-based systems. So we missed the change originally just because of that. And so this is us trying to get back in line with what the rest of Fedora is doing by doing a migration for existing systems over to NFT. But we're also allowing people to choose to stay and not be migrated. So there's a communication going out about that pretty soon. But yeah, as far as OKD is concerned, I don't know if OKD already, which is like systems that are starting on Fedora Core OS to use IP tables NFT or not. Either way, it's something to look out for and just to make sure you're doing the right thing. Awesome. Thanks, Nessie. All right, folks, I think that's it. We'll see you all at the docs meeting. If you're interested in the docs meeting, that's same bat time, same bat channel next week. And then I'll see the rest of you all in two weeks for our main meeting. And by then, Brian Vadim and I will have met and hammer out these last few items that we need to get to. All right, see you, folks. I'll stop the recording now. Well, before everyone goes, there's a couple of quick things I want to point out. I believe, so this weekend is FOSDOM. And I believe Sandro is going to be talking about OKD virtualization there. So that's, so if you're interested in checking that out, you can go to FOSDOM. There's a link in the meeting notes for that one. Yeah. There's a link in the meeting notes for that. You can check out the general FOSDOM website. There's also a CentOS Dojo that's preceding FOSDOM. And I don't know if there's anything particularly OKD relevant here, probably not, but whatever. And yeah, that's all I have. Thank you. Yeah. And then there's also, I put it in there. There's the OpenShift Commons gathering on GitOps. And I'll be presenting on the GitOps work that I'm doing for ICPSR. And I think Vadim is presenting something, or no, Christian Hernandez is going to be presenting something. So GitOps related. So all right, folks, I'm going to stop recording. And thanks for coming to the meeting. We'll see you next time.