 Okay, and we're live. Hi everybody, today we have a Google Summoner of Court Office hours. We will do a short sync up regarding JSOC preparations to the next year and talk about action items and discuss whatever other topics we have on the table. So no specific plan. If you want to join, we have a Gitter channel where we posted the participant link and we also have a meeting notes where we'll be posting called updates. So I believe that's it. So today we have a number of people on the call. Thanks a lot for joining, Supoon. Then, Runger, how to correctly pronounce your name? Okay, he's muted. And we also have Pritam on the call, Pritam. Could you briefly introduce yourself and just to let us know what is your interest so that we can add whatever questions you have to the agenda so we start from them? Okay. So like, Pritam, I graduated in 2017 and I'm a GSOC student 2016 in the year. I worked for Soleta project which was part of Intel open source initiative. My interest as such, I like distributed systems. I like scaling up and scaling down things just for the fun of it. I'm interested in anything that Jenkins, like I use Jenkins as part of my job. I'm just open to any suggestions, anything that Jenkins, I'm just in the process of exploring what Jenkins is source code. I'm just open to suggestions about what I can do for the project. Yeah. So you're interested in contributing. Is it a GSOC specifically or something in general? Sorry. So are you interested in the Google summer of code specifically or mostly in Jenkins contribution? I'm interested in Jenkins contribution. That's my prime motive. Since I was also a part of GSOC, I'd like to contribute for that as well. Yeah. So thanks a lot for your interest. This year we actually started assembling some projects already. Last year we had several projects focused on distributed systems. For example, we had a project for remote in Cova Apache Kafka. Okay. And it was one of the successfully completed projects. And you will be probably creating a follow-up project idea for that. So you may see that on our list, we already have a number of project ideas posted. And we will be extending this list. And if you have anything specific in mind, for example, from whatever you experienced with Jenkins, just let us know so we can put additional project ideas so we can discuss how to factor them. So it will be one of the options. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, so maybe, yeah, if you have any ideas now, maybe you want to talk about them? I'll put it in Jeter. I'll put it after meeting. Right now I don't have any clear ideas as such. Okay. Okay. Let's see. Thank you very much. Okay. So something went wrong there. Okay. So I'm not sure whether you can participate. Sorry again for the pronunciation, but you're just to provide some updates. We extended the role strategy plugin ideas. So Supoon and Fringe joined the potential mentors list. We also introduced chat in Jeter so that these ideas have a communication channel. It's what we were missing in the original ideas and hopefully we will fine tune them at Apex, et cetera. I have an action item to follow up on that. But yeah, this is why Supoon and Anarunja are on the call and thanks a lot to you guys. By the way, Supoon, maybe you have any ideas about the remote and related projects for distributed systems? Yeah, I think we had to extend that last year project and having some more features. So I think we have to discuss it and adding more tasks. Yeah, so maybe we could just set up a follow-up call maybe when we can join because Futon was also interested in this area. Yeah, exactly. I think it is a great thing if we could have a chance to extend that project because we had great project last year. So I think he will also help us to continue that project. Okay, thank you. So yeah, it's action item on me. So yeah, I'll do that. Okay, if there is no other intro topics, maybe we can just sync up on the action items from the previous week and then proceed with other topics if we have any. So one of the action items was on me and last week I said that I am going to create the GSOC work admin checklist guide and I messed it up. Unfortunately, I was really busy with Java 11 prep work and at my personal time, I was really busy with other things. So finally I didn't even touch it after the next meeting. So my apologies for that, but yeah, I'll make sure that I'll at least submit the current draft. So my goal was to just finish everything by the time of sending that, but I didn't do that and probably it's a good time to change the approach because I was promising it for several weeks already. So yeah, I'll do that. Yep, so it's still a little work in progress. Then regarding events, they have pet missions for events, I've requested them. No response so far from the infr team. I will link the ticket later. And yeah, then maybe we have a bunch of different action items. Yeah, but generally last week, we were discussing two major topics. One is about community outreach. Another one is about updating our application guidelines and maybe we could start from application guidelines since Jeff is on the call. So what was the question? Application guidelines update. So this is a pull request we were working on. Yeah, so I have a pull request out for the procedure that we came up with for proposing new projects. Olegs looked at it, made some comments. It's still out there. I'd like to merge it. It would be great if a couple of other people would kind of give it a sanity check. Okay, so this one. Yeah. And it's not really a work in progress, right? Not anymore, no. Mm-hmm. Okay, so I just added the title. But yeah, personally, I'm fine with the current state. So if somebody has a moment to take a look at that, even if it's not final, I think it makes sense to post whatever we have here. If there is no contradiction with the project guidelines so we can proceed and maybe start reaching out in developer mailing lists. Because lack of application guidelines was one of the problems we had. So the project guidelines, maybe it would be great. So it would be great to have a kind of quick start. So now we have a long process. But if we could put quick start here, for example, say that if you want to propose a project idea, copy this Google Doc, send it as a gitter in the mailing list. So maybe such quick start would help us a lot. Okay, yeah, I can work on that. It would be, to kind of follow up on your comment though, if we could get this merged while I'm working on that, that would be good too. Yeah, so if we can get it merged, it would be really nice. Okay. So this quick start can be a follow up. Yeah. So it doesn't need to be in the simple request or we can just write it together right now. But probably it's not the most efficient time use but we can do it after the call, if you prefer. Sure. Okay, oh, there is approval from Martin already. That's cool. So yeah, it's in review. And yes, other topics we had here is about community outreach. So we had several action items but yeah, I think that what we are missing here is application guidelines and once we have them, maybe we could use a message from Martin. So Martin has sent messages to several channels. So we could just have a template message so that we could follow up in channels using them. What do you think, Martin? Yeah, let me show you when I just sent. I'm gonna paste to that here. Oh, okay. I just stopped screen sharing just a second. Oh, there is comments in the chat. Nothing specific. Okay, so I'll just follow the link. Okay, we are here. So this is the message you sent to the Jenkins info mailing list. Yeah, actually, I think that this template is already really cool. So if we just update it a bit to follow, to reference a project application guidelines from Jeff, maybe to simplify the things if we could just use it as is. Yeah, okay, I can do that. And so there is also this page I'm listing in the app on proposing project ideas. Is this the one that Jeff is updating? Yes, exactly. Okay, perfect. Okay, so once we get that page, we can just reuse the information and maybe simplify the email or whatever. But yeah, what we can do, once it's done, we can just reach out to the Jenkins developer mailing list and to the, yeah, maybe the so-called public mailing list as well, because we really need to start reaching out through the channels which are kind of wide outreach. And the email is a good starting point. So maybe we can just update it and start this conversation. So I think I'm gonna go ahead and merge that application guidelines right now since Martin's looked at it too. Does that make sense? If Lloyd is fine with it, why not? Okay, I'll give him a chance first. Lloyd, are you around? Okay, he's reading it. Oh, give five more minutes. So yeah, then it's fine. Okay, so I think that the invitation template is something we could do and then somebody should just start a discussion in the developer mailing list. Who would do that, by the way? Martin, if you're interested, you can just do that because you have already started the template. So probably it would be the best approach for you to start this discussion unless you have preferences. Sorry, I was typing. Yeah, I started on the discussion in the Jenkins developer mailing list. Oh yeah, absolutely, I will change the template, make it generic enough, suitable for the dev mailing list and start the discussion there. Okay, that's cool. And yeah, after that maybe in one week we can also do a blog post on Jenkins Ion, but by this time we will probably have some more feedback. So yeah, maybe we can just some couple of the next call about that. Okay, yeah. Okay, that's cool. So then what else, JEP, it thanks a lot for the feedback. So I believe, so it's JEP, sorry, JSOC budgeting. What I'm going to do that, I'm going to send another email to Kiki and maybe get a finally BDFL delegate assigned so that we can formally close that because there are some spendings in coming in the next year and probably we could get it over the fence. By the way, what else I need to do to send the JSOC 2019 budget report? Jeff, have you already sent the expense report? No, I'm sorry, I haven't done that yet. I'll try to do that today. Okay, yeah, so there is one big Schneider monomie to finally send the Schwag to people. I mean, special JSOC stickers, et cetera. I have almost ordered to them, so they're ready for printing, t-shirts I will be using community t-shirts from DevOps for Jinx world. So I will probably send everything just from my mail unless it's too expensive. And that's why I want to send budget reports so that in parallel we approve the delivery expenses. Yeah, but in any case, I committed to send it out and I will definitely do that. But probably it will happen in January, the delivery dates, I will definitely do that. I have a question regarding JEP 8. Yeah. My question is, I don't remember if we are specific on the approval process. Who are the approvers and how what's the column for approving an expense? Yeah, so there are two parts of the answer. For JEP 8 specifically, who approves this JEP? So far it's not delegated. So it's Koski who has to approve that. And that's why I'm going to send email to him because yeah, I pinged him several times over last year just to get his action because it either needs to be delegated to somebody or it needs to be approved by Tiki. So yeah, this is something we will need to figure out. Regarding the budget itself, once this JEP is approved, we can do some budgeting on our own using JSOC budget. So whatever money we get from Google and whatever money we've got from Google in previous years, we can approve it on our own. But before this JEP is approved, we will need to confirm expenses in the developer making case unless it's sponsored by somebody else. Okay, my question is more specific. Yeah. Okay, if I read the section on approval process, all expenses should be pre-approved with Jenkins, JSOC, or GapMins before the expenses are incurred. Okay, so Jenkins, JSOC, or GapMins. We need to know who they are and how we decide between ourselves. Yeah, right. So there is no specifics about that because we can add specifics, for example, we discuss it at office hours, we say approved, then it's approved. So something like that. But you're right, we may need to add some details here. Is it what we're doing? Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. And also, let's say there is, if there is four JSOC or GapMins, I mean, I think so far, everybody's gonna get along but what if there's a split two and two? Who breaks a tie? Is it majority vote? Is it unanimous? Those details, I don't think we'll ever run into these problems, but yeah. So yeah, it should be a kind of consensus, but yeah, I think that unless there is a consensus between GapMins that we either go to the developer at least and discuss using the formal budgeting process, yeah, I think it would be the way because if we can't agree between each other, probably it needs to be escalated. Right. Okay. So if I write something like that to the proposal, would it be fine with you? Martin, Lloyd, Jeff? It's fine with me. Yeah, I can do it if you want. You have lots on your plate. I can write something and we can decide if it's a proper process. Okay. Something like that. Okay. And probably it's governance meeting then. Okay. If you can document that Martin, it would be great. Well, any other comments about the JEP? Well, it's almost related to the JEP. Do we officially document the list of Jenkins, JSoc or GapMins? Yes. Do we define that, I assume it's a one year term and we should define when that starts and when that's renewed. Yeah, right. So there are two instances there. So there is JSoc or GapMins in 2019, they are listed here. And another part which we have is a special interest group. So it's Google Summer of Code Special Interest Group. And now there are leaders. So what I did last week, I just added all current Orca means as the leaders of JSoc. Before that I was the only leader listed on this page. And why I did that firstly, because I will be off for a while in this year. And second, we don't want to be a bottleneck in any kind of the decision. So my procedure is to define the list of Jenkins, so my suggestion there would be to just go forward basically, unless we need to reconsider it in the next year. So something like that. Okay, so when you are off, what happens to the voting process? There are three Orca means available. Okay. I either cast my vote in the mailing list when the request happens or I miss the meeting and then, okay. If I'm not available, then there are three other Orca means who can make the decision. And the same if somebody else misses the meeting. Yeah, we have a discussion in the mailing list. If there is a consensus, okay. If somebody has to miss the meeting, like it usually happens, there is a way to comment in the discussion list. And then if there is no comment in the discussion list, and if we know that, okay, this Orca mean is not available right now, it won't be a case for the GSOC itself because yeah, for GSOC period, we expect all Orca means to be more or less available. But now, yeah, there is a kind of midterm. So now things may happen. So yeah, we can rely on this list, I think. Unless you want to define the specific process, I think it's okay for now. Okay, I'll think about it, I want something simple. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I think maybe we can park it. So anything else on this topic? Nothing for me. Okay. So I double checked the list. There was no pending action items except what we discussed. What we can do now, and actually I think that we should start doing on the regular basis and probably before we red hold to the discussions, we could just take a look at the status and see whether we can help some project ideas to be delivered. So we have a bunch of project ideas here. We also have some unpublished project ideas in the list. So maybe since we have 30 minutes left, maybe we could spend some time just to talk about these project ideas and see whether we can get some of them over the fence. Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Yes. Yeah, just a little bit of a tip here because it was accepted as a drought. Let's start from the top. So we have a factory REST API plugin. Effectively, we had three project ideas about various REST API plugins. We got two published. They're here. So Bitbucket and Jenkins REST plugin. But yeah, there is also a factory and my comment here was that, well, we need some meat in the description before we can get it published. So Martin, you said you are going to take a look. So what would be your plans here? I had a very quick look and the two solutions need to be compared. The two solutions need to be compared. I don't know more than that. Yeah, right. So one of the ways we could approach that, maybe we could start the discussion in the mailing list and I could try getting cars, JFrog people on the call. So JFrog is a vendor of factory. Well, at least not in the call, but maybe in the discussion. So if it helps to somehow facilitate this project idea, you could start a discussion raising maybe this problem or whatever. And then yeah, we got also JFrog people. Potentially we may get some mentors if you are lucky. If not, at least we can get some feedback from them. I think it's a great idea. Do you mean the developer mailing list? Yeah, one of the ways is developer mailing list and then the one is JSOC mailing list, but I think it rather suits the developer one. Okay, I think it's a great idea. Oleg, actually I have a question about your comment. You say examples of steps. Do you mean examples of what the pipeline step would be? Yeah, right. So I will show you the example. To invite JFrog contributors to it. Okay, something like that. Just to show you an example, actually two other project ideas from Martin have been updated. If you take a look at the BitBucket, here you may see that there is some examples in the text, something like that. I see. Yeah, so there are maybe some discussions about how it would actually look like. But yeah, the idea is to just give students some ideas of how it would look like. So now we have more flexibility with the new project ideas listing formats. So we can get more information in the project proposal. And I think we should use this opportunity in order to expand to these sections a bit, to provide examples of the steps we want to implement and maybe provide some examples. Yeah, that makes sense, yeah. Okay, so yeah, there is existing complementation. Maybe what it also makes here, maybe it makes sense to reference the rest of the plugin. So something like that. Martin, does it help you with this project idea? Yes, yes. The Artifactory REST API, just for information, it maps one for one all the REST API endpoints in Artifactory to a method in Java. So that's how the Artifactory REST API is constructed. And it's the same for the Jenkins REST and the Bitbucket REST. They're all built around the same concept. Yeah, so there could be two questions here. One is if it's generic and similar, and if you want to have one-to-one mapping, why don't we just create a REST API client plugin? For example, there are some recommendations like read YAML steps, which actually reads YAML and maps it to the objects. And probably the same could be created in REST API plugins. So just a single plugin which can do requests and which provides objects or whatever as a return result so that this plugin can be used to query different APIs. Because if we take a look here, you still cannot implement that in this way because you need to know API specification. This API specification should exist and we could just, sorry, if you don't mind, I can just draft it here. Go ahead. Yeah, so for example, if I'll just take the proposal from here, use Bitbucket client. So here we just say URL for whatever credentials ID, let's say URL for whatever credentials ID, my Bitbucket credentials. And then here we can see that, so something like, for example, REST client. Yep, I just may make up the things. Maybe it's better to do something like that. So that there is a global property specific for the Bitbucket. And so there's something like this client and here we just save it and get, for example, what is here, API here, full request. I'm not sure what is the correct endpoint in this one, but we can probably query something like that. And we suggest a different response. Then in a response, we, for example, can say it's something like this. We, for example, can say it's something like the response, for example, again, I just make up things, something quite a bit. What I wanted to say here that we can just create a kind of generic get method, which gets some point and then maps it to objects and then we can just get this object in the data model. And you probably it replaces something like that, or maybe not. And the cool thing here that theoretically it can be just REST client. So REST API client and it can be something like that for a bit bucket, because there is no specific two-bit bucket here right now. I'm not sure how it maps your idea, Martin, but it's something which could probably simplify the things. I'm just looking at it thinking right now. Yeah, so maybe we could just move on to other project ideas. But yeah, what we could do at the meetings, actually just spend some time at each meeting to go through proposals, especially if mentors sound the call and somehow get it over the fence. Sounds good. Okay, so while you take a look at it, so probably we can just keep REST APIs. So what would be our next EDA coverage adopters? It's again from Martin. So here, I'm the contactor, Karmin, what I've tried here. Actually, I tried to get one student from the previously involved. Udara was making a proposal about EDA tool. And one of his proposals was actually about integrating covered with open source EDA coverage tool. So that's why I tried to pin him and he replied. So, and he would be also interested to somehow support this project. So there is an action item on somebody to actually follow up and to expand this proposal. So yeah, he had exams, but maybe we could follow up with him. Martin, what do you think about that? Yeah, I can ping him. Yeah, I can ping him, but this type of idea tends to be, it all depends on what the student has access to and what the student knows. So I did not want to be too specific. If a student comes up and says, I use this tool and I want to integrate it with coverage, that's what I'm gonna support, right? Yeah, we still could add some information here. For example, provide examples of tools which tools could be integrated or provide examples of how they integrated to Jenkins. So for example, which data you expect to be published, maybe some additional features you wish to be implemented or maybe types of coverage for EDA tools because coverage may mean completely different things in the EDA world. And if we expand that a bit, probably the proposal will become more interesting to students who are interested in this area. Okay. So, yeah, it's just a proposal how we could go over the fence. And yeah, something like that. So probably we could just scroll down a bit. So yeah, my idea was to actually just take a look at the list of mentors on the call and maybe discuss how the proposals could be expanded and how we could get them more comfortable to students to potential mentors so that we can get more mentors. And yeah, I think it could be helpful for us. Should we discuss other project ideas in such way or should we just switch to something else? For example, another topic I wanted to discuss with you, Lloyd, and with you, Jeff, maybe you have some project ideas in your mind for the next year and maybe discuss them. Yes, I do have one that I'm gonna propose now that we have the process document and I'll go through the process. Yeah, so you plan to just follow the process? Yeah, yeah, kind of give it a try off. So I'll create the document and I'll reach out to the admin alias and get the discussion going. Yeah, so what can we do here is we can say that, yeah, we definitely want to do something about the remote and distributors systems. So it's something to do. Yeah, and if you have some such ideas for projects which haven't been submitted yet, you can just put them here. So just in case you have an idea, this list is public. So maybe just by putting things here, we could already facilitate some discussion. Okay. Yeah, I think it's okay from the proposal standpoint. But yeah, I'm not sure how much it follows the process. Okay, and so on. So we have several other projects ideas. So Rick isn't on multiple branch project ideas already published a draft, but we could work a bit towards the final publishing. And regarding other project ideas, I'm just not sure how much sense it makes to continue discussing them now. So unless you Martin want to discuss them in detail. Okay, so Lloyd said in the chat that discussing GitLab project idea. So probably we should actually discuss that. So what we have for GitLab project ideas now. So yeah, there is multi-branch pipeline support for GitLab SCM. Currently we have one potential mentor is Rick. And yeah, according to Lloyd, maybe Jeff might be able to find another commenter here. Yeah, I'll reach out to the person I had in mind today. I would potentially be interested in mentoring this one as well. So probably we could just use a potential mentor. So it's not a commitment, but having more contacts is something which is helpful to us. Yeah, I'm hoping to be involved in mentoring at least a couple of projects this summer. So this does interest me. Okay. I'll reach out to the others we did there. So yeah, I'm listed as a contact or admin. And what we've tried in this proposal. So there was some reviews in the beginning. I tried pinging some people. So you may see that there is Owen here. Owen is the current maintainer of the GitLab plugin. Okay. So yeah, there was an option to actually get some bits in GitLab plugin instead of creating new plugin. So there are some discussions which probably require some context. But what is here that GitLab plugin isn't for adoption anymore. But I believe that Owen may have opportunity to review that. And maybe he may be interested to be a kind of technical advisor in the project or at least to be a reviewer. So it's something which may help us. And you can try to talk to Owen about that. And also you can get a lot of his feedback regarding the details because he can use GitLab and with existing plugins. So it could be an option for us. So I think that's it. If you have any feedback of what could be added to the scope is something we could discuss here. So this project idea could be expanded so that we can help it to get landed. So there is already a bunch of links in these examples. There are some issues to be reviewed. So yeah, I think that it's already going forward. Now the details will be formally accepted. But since there is ongoing discussion, we should help to resolve this discussion. And if there is more mentors, we should wait. So that we can have more discussions. Unfortunately, I have no permission to accept that. But I believe we can pin correct what he's available. Is it what you wanted to discuss, Lloyd? Thank you. Anything else we need to discuss about this project? Microphones are always complicated. Okay, so if anybody has any other proposals about this project, just put them in the doc. It's available for comments and for proposals. So everybody can just write some more information here. And this is what we encourage everybody to do if you're interested in this project idea. Okay, what else do we have? We have acceptance test harness under discussion. And we have artifact promotion. So artifact promotion is, it's on my side. Thanks a lot to you, Lloyd, for being contactor. I have started some discussions in pipeline authoring seek. And then you also have Klaus, who is interested. So we will continue that. But I believe that we can get more content here quickly. And then anything that this project idea we find, we just need to get more feedback before we get published. And finally, last but not least, improvements to Jenkins acceptance test harness. Martin, what's your opinion? What do we need to do in terms of the scope, et cetera? How can we help it to be delivered? Okay, so this one felt like it just needed optimization. Now I don't know if it's structural architectural optimizations or if we could achieve it with simply doing it with containers. So the way that harness works is you download a war file and you start Jenkins and it downloads a bunch of plugins and just the starting process for running single test takes quite a long time, several minutes. So the idea was to come up with, I guess, a way to test plugins against a known Jenkins instance instead of the latest, with the latest plugins downloaded fresh each time. Sounds like Docker containers might help here. Yeah, Docker containers. Can there be a discussion about using test containers probably or Jenkins has its own framework for that? Okay, so yeah, Docker could help there definitely. So we just need to fund this proposal and to see what we can do. And if I recall correctly, there was a project proposal last year in terms of Jenkins acceptance test harness. So maybe we could reach out to the students or whether he's still interested and we invite him to contribute to this project idea according to his experience. It's one of the ways to facilitate the discussion and another way probably just commenting on this thread and actually putting your idea Martin there. Maybe it would be also in the scope. Because here there is a lot of issues which actually overlap with what you were talking about. So, yeah, for example, this one. So maybe you just reference the project idea in this thread would be something we could do or we could somehow polish the discussion that Oliver is involved and it could help us to drive the idea forward. Okay, I forgot about that discussion. I'm sure I've seen it. So, yeah, I put it to comments and here you edit it to the references. So what we could do next is actually to try participating in this discussion so that we can provide some feedback and maybe you get some feedback from the discussion so that it can help us. So what do you think about this way to facilitate this project idea? Yeah, I think it's a good idea. Okay, I'll follow up on the mailing list. Okay, and another topic is probably reaching for the student from JSOC 2018. Okay, I forgot that we had a student interested in that last year. Okay, so yeah, I just referenced here or got some ideas from his proposal. I'm not sure, but yeah, maybe it's something which could help you as well Martin. Yes, thank you. Okay, thank you too. So yeah, we are almost running out of time. So my question to you guys, does it make sense to run such sim cups on the call? So just checking project ideas and trying to get them over the fence? Yes, I think it'll help ensure that we get more of them to completion. I didn't even look at them, so this helps me even understand some of the things that they proposed recently. Okay, so yeah, maybe we then included through our regular agenda. So if we have new participants, we talk to them like we talked today with pre-term. But then if we have mentors on the call, we also talk to them, see how we can help them. And then we proceed with the governance part including all these documentation prep work, etc. But I hope that it will be taken less time in the next meetings. Because yeah, we are getting documentation over the fence, which is really cool. And thanks a lot to everybody participating in that. And then our next steps will be just application, but application is the most simple part of GSOC, I think. So yeah, I think we're getting good with that. Okay, any other topics to discuss? Just quickly looking at my list here. No, not a discussion, but I reached out. Valina and I talked about joining the JCASK office hours, but they still have it at too early in the morning for me. Yeah, so I can do it on your behalf if I'm available next week. Okay, that would be nice. I think they're going to change their hours in 2019. Maybe, but so far it wasn't discussed. Oh, and there's also a doodle for the infrastructure team. I have not replied because I'm not an active member, but it's to decide when they have the timing for their meetings. Oh, you mean adding it to the calendar? Yeah, I think, yes. I think I saw that from Oliver. Yeah, there is a topic about it. So generally I'm driving JCASK meetings nowadays, and it's also something I'm trying to hand over. And to raise the JSOC topic there. So it will be on December 19th. Does it make sense? Okay, yes. Okay, I think that's it. Yeah, discovered that actually I have a meeting starting. Yeah, my question, if you have any other topics, I can just leave the call so you can continue. Or we can probably close down the meeting and press it in the chat if there are any other topics. No more topics from me. Thank you. Okay, I have one follow-up with Lloyd about contactor cut means being listed on the project ideas. So I'll just do that because it's easier to push Hamel for that, but you need to know Hamel. Which is not that comfortable. So I'll have another next night when I will do that. So if there are no other topics, I'll just stop the broadcast and thanks to everybody who participated. So looking forward to meeting you next week. Bye bye.