 Thank you for staying with us. If you're just joining, you are on time for the first conversation of the day. And today we start with Marta's health, and we want to explore the area of mental health. How exactly do you, you know, how exactly do you vent, how exactly do you express yourself? For some, it's hard to get therapy or, you know, get the counseling services. You don't want to speak to a therapist. There's an option that one company that is called Will Listen Hub is giving people, and that's a virtual best friend. So today we want to talk about the virtual best friend. And for this particular conversation, I am joined by the founder and CEO of Will Listen Hub, also a mental health advocate. She goes by the name Charity Warimo. Charity? Most welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much. Glad to have you with us. Nice to be here. So I know I've already introduced you, but if you want to tell us more about yourself and what exactly you're doing so that people can understand. All right. My name is Charity, and I'm the CEO and founder of Will Listen Hub, which is what you said, a virtual best friend. So this is where you come to when you want to unburden yourself, when you want to talk about something that's affecting you, and you don't feel like you can tell the people around you or even tell a therapist. So what you do is just give us a call and then talk about what's happening in your life. And when you're done, hang up and go about your day feeling better. That's it. Okay. Yeah. I think it's quite interesting. I don't know if I've had anything like this before. Maybe it's there, but we're exploring the need for an unconventional way to address mental health because you have to fight the battle from all angles. So that's our aspect. I think that's not structured, it's not your usual go-to thing, but something that also makes you comfortable and leaves you feeling better. Yeah. I think sometimes you just want to talk to a stranger. Maybe some people feel like when you talk to your friend, you feel like you're overburdening them, and so you prefer keeping it to yourself. But now when you have this virtual best friend, who doesn't know you and you can just vent and you eat. Yeah. You know, they are that illicit. I think it's a good thing. Well, if everyone gets to that and what is all about the details of it, what do you think about the mental status of Kenyans in this season? I think we are really struggling in a really bad place. And it's not specifically young people, old people, it's people of all ages. And it happens in the cases that we are seeing now, all these are things that are affected by a person's mental health. So the victim is affected, the perpetrator is affected. So mental health in Kenya, where we are right now, I think, not from an expat level, but from a person who's living amongst other people, we're all dealing with one thing or another. The only difference is, how are you coping with what you're dealing with? Are you just silent and dying by yourself, or are you just going around and harming others in a way to make yourself feel better or feel the void? Or are you dealing with it by getting professional help, acknowledging that this is my problem and this is how I want to deal with it? So that's what sets people apart. But I think we are doing really badly. We need to do better because we're in a bad place. We're in a bad place, I agree. So mental health, from what you're saying, it can either lead you to harm yourself or harm others. There's need to seek help. When you're going through something, a hard situation, it's very important to seek help. And what do you think about the policies, the environment that has been set? Do our policy makers, our leaders, we were talking with my co-host just a while back about the backlash that our women received during the protests that happened on Saturday. So I don't know, do you think that our leaders are doing enough to ensure that mental health is taken care of, that we have policies, that we have laws, that help deal with this situation? That's an interesting question. But they may not be doing enough, but my question will be, are you doing enough as a person? So before you even point to others, I know our leaders are not doing enough in various aspects, not just mental health. And the policies may not be there or where we want them to be. But my question will be, what are you doing as a person? Because you see, you may affect, you may be best friends. But when you show up here and I'm like, I don't think that here suits you. And you're feeling your best. What does that say about how does it affect you? So before we even say what are the leaders doing, what are other people doing, what are you doing as a person to either fan the fire or put out the flames? What are you doing as a person? Because I will say for myself, even when we listen from the equation, I know I have been a mental health advocate in various spaces for young people, for young adults in high schools. I know I'm doing that. So bringing me listen to the equation, I'm providing a space where you, as Stephanie, you can come to before you can tell anyone else who you feel cannot handle what you want to say. So yes, they are not doing enough. Yes, we still have a long way to go. But again, what are you doing as a person in your own personal space that helps or takes away from your mental health or other people's mental health? That will be the better question. OK. I think it's a great one. How you've put it. So now tell us about ways. And I know you are not a counselor, bi-professional, or a therapist, because this is an unconventional way. So get us into it. What exactly happens? The easiest way to explain this, I'll use you as an example. You've had a rough day at work, and you get home, and you feel you don't want to eat, don't want to shower, you can't do anything, you feel like your head is exploding. So what you can do is call, we listen. So you have the option of booking an appointment, but now in your situation, it's there and then. You're in trouble there, and then you're feeling like, I may not even be able to get through this night. So what do I do? For some reason, you have heard about we listen. So now you just call the number and say, my name is Stefan. You can choose to say you're Stefan, you tell them you're Mary, or even hide your number. You have the option of staying anonymous. So call us and then talk about your day. Just say, I'm going through this and this. Then I or whoever is on the other end, we listen to what you're going through. We'll hold space. We are not giving you advice. We are just creating a space where you can be hard because most times, what people want is just to be hard. Not those people who are talking over you and telling you, sorry, I can't do what. Not those ones, those ones for I hear you. How are you feeling? How is it making you feel in this moment? So you see. It triggers the right questions. Yes, yes. And most times, I'd say in the success rate for what we do, I'd say 90% of it, you will leave there feeling better because most times, you just want someone to hear you and you can be able to organize your thoughts or just say something that is deep down that you cannot tell anyone else. So now after you hung up, you probably feel better and have a good night's sleep. So the next time you anticipate a bad day, now you can chenille your meltdown in advance. Like this day, I don't see it going too well. Let me just book my appointment. Let me just book my appointment for now. So like, hi, I want to book an appointment for 9 p.m. So now this time around when you get home, you're feeling at least you have a landing zone, a soft landing where you can just call and know this one will hear me out. They won't ask me to arrange you a Christian. But usually, you say this and this, I'll be like, okay, and then you feel, now you're dealing with it, and then you can speak. It's a very soft landing. That's how I'd say it, a very soft landing. All right, so people just speak. For how long can you speak for? Because, you know, so people would want to go on for hours and hours, you know, others for minutes and that they're okay. So how is it like? I'd say for me, being on phone is, if there was something like a talent, I can speak on phone for hours. So now what happens is, how long can the client be on phone? Because myself, I have handled conversations with my friends as I held space for them, even before these three-hour-conform call conversations as I listen, and you just react with you, oh my God, what, what, and then what? And then that, oh, you did well there, you know. It's very, so for me, I can handle, and what we've done with the other listeners is we found a team of people who can do the same, so there's no point along the way where I lose concentration, or the other listeners, we lose concentration, and they can no longer, they can listen, but they cannot hear what you're saying. As long as the client can do it, as long as their appointment allows, then we're good. Okay, so as long as, you know, it totally depends where the client, I'm curious, how did you get to this? How did the idea come about? I think it was always in the back of my mind, and I have been doing these before even we listened, so I'd find myself as the go-to person for everyone around me. So one would be going through something, like, hey, how are you doing? Oh, I need to talk, oh, this person, oh, this man, oh, this job. And then I started noticing even in circles that I, like a strange place, I'm at a hotel, I'm at a club, and someone would just come say, hi, in a few minutes we are teething, by the time we were living there, 45 minutes later, I know, and we'll never meet again, we've not exchanged numbers, you've just vented, but then I'm like, hey, thank you so much, cheers. So I realized, oh wow, it's not just my friends, it's happening everywhere, and then I realized, I am that person for everyone else, you understand? But when I was going through it, I didn't have someone who would hold space for me, they were a hold space for others. So I realized there must be other people like me who will hold space for everyone, but there is no one to hold space for them, yes. So that means when they are going through something, they have nowhere to go, because if you're best friends and you always come to me, and then I come to you, then you're like, ah. Yeah. So it's like, come here, now what happens to me? Well, you'll be fine, you're strong, you understand? You're the strong one. So I started to realize there is the need for that, and a conventional way to handle mental health. And again, not everyone, we are getting there to accepting therapy as a form of help, but not everyone is there yet. So what do we do for these people before they get there? Do they continue dying in silence and hurting? So what can we do for them before they get there? Mm-hmm. All right. That's how it came about. Quite interesting. I mean, I think that's just how you discover things. You look around, you're like, why me? Like, why this thing happening? And that's how you get a solution to it, because you found the solution. So for you, how does it, or you and the other listeners that you have in your organization, how do you now vent out? You know, because you've said when you are in let's, what do you find your outlets again? Because I know with psychology, even the counselors themselves need to find someone to speak to at the end of the day, because when you get a lot of people and complaints, it affects you one way or the other subconsciously. So how do you go about that? Yes, like I said, I'm not a professional. So now I find a professional to make sure that I have an outlet for myself, because you see I'm taking in for most people, even the other listeners, that's actually, I don't want to say the rule, but it's a recommendation because you're taking in a lot, of course there are positive stories in there, but most of what we handle is negative. And at some point it will weigh you down. So before it gets there, handle a session every week so that you can also ground yourself so that you can be able to handle other people's issues. Okay, I think that's fair enough. So from the sessions that you have, I know it's confidential, but I don't know, is that a major issue that people usually go through that maybe someone can relate to, someone who's watching everything? This is a small problem. I shouldn't even be talking about it. People think that the problems are light, but you actually need to share the small problems that build up over time. So from experience, what are some of the issues that people are going through that they need to be talking about? So most of the things that we deal with are friendship breakups, especially for us women. Wow. Friendship breakups. Because now you're seeing if you break up as friends, and then you tell a third person what happens. Then relationships, relationships. And for some reason here in Kenya, our jobs are chaotic. So you're finding that at the end of the day, oh my boss, my colleague, the pressure. So mostly it's relationships, friendships. And jobs. And add to that family, family dynamics. Black tax in Atuchapa with Zuri. Yeah, I want you to say black tax. Yeah, so most times you find that. Those are some of the issues that you're dealing with. But there is also the pressure because of the economy. So especially for men, because you're feeling. Do men call? Do men call in? Yes, yes they do. You would think that men will not call to talk about relationship issues, but they will. Wow. They'll call to talk about relationship issues, economy, money, financial situations. Because if I'm a man and I tell you I'm going through this, you will probably not invite me for your next night out because I can't handle the bill. If I tell my wife or my partner what happens, something may change. So most times I hold on to that and it silently kill me. So if you call us and talk us, I'm not giving you money, but I'm giving you a place where you can say something that you cannot repeat anywhere else. And after that you're feeling okay, it's fine. Let's try tomorrow and let's try the next day. Let's try, let's keep trying. I think it's a good, it's a safe space, especially for men because they're very soft and they're not very open to talk about things. And now, because US is a virtual session, people have virtual sessions, do you at any point on request maybe have a one-on-one meeting or is it standard policy that it's only virtual? I would occasionally, or it's not me, some of my other senior listeners would take a face-to-face session, but it will need to be pre-planned and of course it will cost more because we are factoring in. If you want a face-to-face session, you're not on the same level as someone else. So that will cost more, do you need pre-planning? Because the need for we listen as where it is virtually is, you're in your house, you're throwing up, you're crying, you're sobbing. You don't start thinking about how am I living in the house to go to a physical session, what am I wearing, there's traffic. So call us in your tears, in your tears, in your bathroom. Whether you're drunk or you know it. Call us, call us and talk to us at your point of need. So occasionally we will take face-to-face sessions, even workshops for small groups where now we can have, we can create a space where you can talk and vent, but the point of need for we listen is in that moment of need, you don't have to think about what shoes, umbun, zangun, chafu, uber, nasi na pesaya, uber, there is traffic. In your point of need, in your tears, in your vomit, in your drunkenness, in your snout, in your tissues, all over. In that moment, when your voice is breaking and you can't finish a sentence, we hold space for you until you can finish a sentence. I'm like, hi, I need your help. We will hold space until you can finish that one sentence in your point of need. That's the goal of this. Wow, it's wonderful. And there's no process for that, for the virtual session, when you're feeling that, you have that heavy feeling in your heart, you just call them then and you just start. And that's the process, just calling and start. Yes, all right. So now what happens is, if you're a return client, then of course we know how to bill you even after the session. But for a first time client, we take the chance and say, let's do this and then, we believe in the value of what we do. So we will know that the payment is coming. And what we do is sometimes we find even friends, friends of the organizations, partners would say, I have a budget for a few sessions. Let me know when you have a few needy cases. So that makes sense for cases you can't pay. And that's also one way you can support a friend. You know your friend is going through it, they need the help, they are willing, but they don't have the financial capacity to even handle 500 shillings before we listen. So just tell them, do your sessions whenever and tell them to call me. That's how you can show up for your friend when you don't know how you can because you want to show up for them but they can't tell you what you're going through. But they want to talk to someone and they don't know where to begin. Just tell them. You just call and then you will ask them to, to bill me for your sessions. Wow, I think it's wonderful. Wow. We are trying to ensure that everyone, even if you don't want to sit in, you know some people still think that sitting in front of a therapy, you want to help them. You see. But eventually we are getting to a place where it's getting better. But before we get there, where can we help you? When you ask them to help you, how can we help you? Because you see, we don't tell you. What do you just say? We don't diagnose you, we don't tell you what you're dealing with. We'll hear you out, we'll listen. At some point, when you end up saying, you will say to yourself and say, I think I'm depressed. What can I do now? Then you'll be like, aha. We have a professional who can help you with treatment. Are you open to it? Yes. Okay, so you, have you partnered with those professionals that can now, you know, refer them to, recommend them to? Yes, yes, yes. So we'll send you there. Tell you, get in touch with these people and also give the partners a heads up. We have a We Listen client coming in and this is what they're dealing with, carrying on from there. And the best thing about that is, the moment they start, it's easier. If you have been to therapy, the first few sessions are usually tears. Tears, like you want to say something but it's so heavy. But not because they have cried their tears in We Listen. So now when they are going to a professional, they have somewhere to say, they've cried their tears. So they're like, this is where we are now. So it's calmer, it's small, you know, it's more zen as compared to where we found them. Yes. Okay, wonderful. So what are some of the successes from what you've had? What are some of the things that give you pleasure? And you know, I started this and this is the right thing that I'm doing. So for me, it's not even the reviews. It's when I can tell and it's the same with the other listeners. When you speak to them, when you can tell, I got you from zero. Like when you called, you were at zero. By the end of the session, you were laughing and you're telling me, oh, tomorrow I'm going for this and this. My day tomorrow involves this and this. And I'm like, oh, that for me, it's not even the review, but that moment where I, even without being told, can tell we have gone from zero. Even if it's not a hundred, we are at least 80%, you will shower, eat and sleep, then wake up and handle life tomorrow. That for me is the success story. And then when you come back again and you know that this is a place where someone will hold space for you without judging you and you will laugh and talk. Do you know we have people who call to review TV shows? So you're in your house, you're so lonely, you want to call someone and talk to them about love is blind. No. Are you thinking now? Who do I call? Who do I tell? My guys don't watch the mentor. So now, and I want to talk to somebody about this. So what do I do? So just book an appointment with them. Do you watch love is blind? Whether I watch or not, tell me about it. Let's talk about it. Okay. I think this episode is work, but it's okay. Now I can night last talk on the next episode. So it's not just the sad things, we also- It's also a good story. Because sometimes you leave work, it's been bubbly. But when you get to the house, it's cool in here. And that silence is so loud and you don't know where to begin. And the loneliness kicks in. You're thinking, who do I text at this time? Who do I call at this time? Uh-uh. Don't work. Call your virtual best friend and just talk about whatever is going on at that moment. Okay. Because sometimes when you have a win and you don't have anyone to share with, then of course that also affects you. So it's not only the bad stuff. Wow, okay. Interesting. Because if you get promoted at work and you tell your girlfriends, what happens? The next branch, the next date, you're the one handling the bills. If you tell your parents, black tax shoots out. Should start immediately. So now you're just thinking, who do I tell? Let me just leave this win the way it is. So call us and we'll celebrate. You'll be like, oh my God. If it's a thing, you'll be like, oh my God. It's a clutch nation. Okay, so some money, you'll be like, oh, that's nice. That's nice. How do you feel about it? So yeah. All right. How big, what is the power of talking to someone? Because someone else doesn't really get the point, why do I need to talk to someone? You know, someone has not gone through something or someone who doesn't know the value of it. How important is it to just talk to someone? I'd say it's the best thing that you can ever do for yourself and the people around you because talking allows you to pour yourself out, whatever is going in. And that's why you find these people who talk too much, not the nuisances, but people who talk a lot about what they are going through, their healing process becomes easier because it's coming out. They are not stewing inside. And it sort of creates a power of community. You know that when I'm talking to these people, they will hold space for me. Even if it's not with listen, your friends, you know if you call somebody and said, I need you at this moment, if they cannot show up physically, they'll give you a call and be like, what's up babe, talk to me. So talking is something that everyone should try their best to pick up no matter how hard it is. Even for those people who tell me, I don't like talking about my problems, I just try. Even if it's not, you see people will talk to themselves, just pick it. You're talking to yourself, but you're saying it, so it's not here. Because if it stays in your heart, it goes here and then now, things start to become complicated. But the moment you speak it, it sort of becomes lighter. Lighter, okay. So on matters of privacy and data privacy, there's at no point where I find my information out there, when I call in and what not. So how do you ensure this? So the one thing that happens, as the CEO, I am the only one who has access to the database of our clients. So what happens is, even you as a client, if you call in, I know you're Stephanie, but if you call in and say my name is Maggie, I will save you as client Maggie. Maggie, okay. And because I have the number or way to reach you, I know who client Maggie is. So the next time you book a session, whether you want to talk to the same listener or a different one, I know who client Maggie is. Not physically, but I know who client Maggie is. So what happens is, you will never find, you will never find us here talking about, oh, you know, there's this client, there's this person, let's call them Jay. No, you will never find your story anywhere, even in hypothetical. Oh, situations. Situations, even whether, even whether it's on social media, on a podcast, even with a friend. The most interesting thing is, even with the listeners, we do not discuss. Unless it's something that's alarming and needs more, you see, if someone is dealing with self harm or things like that, then of course that's a discussion that needs to be heard. But we will not discuss, oh, the client that I had today was going through. No, okay. So the privacy starts from within. Before now, we even tell you that your story is private, no one will hear it. And how that is proven, I have friends who call we listen, my own personal friends. We will have the conversation when we listen. And the next time we hang out, we are not continuing that conversation. You're not even talking. That was, we listen, we are. And if you want to continue that conversation, it's fine, you personally, but I will not bring it up like, hey, who let me say I look on the, I'm a what's going on here now. No, that ends there. So when we hang out, we hang out. That's different. If you want to call we listen again, we have that conversation. So that conversation stays there. Okay. Not here. All right, I think that's beautiful. What about the charges for those that are interested? So the charges for we listen are affordable because we want to say it's for the person in need. Be yamwananchi. So the most, the minimum is 500 shillings. And what happens is the time you call determines the charges. So if you call between 8 a.m. and 2 p.m., that's 500 Bob for 30 to 45 minutes. If you can talk for one and a half hours, then of course the math changes add to it. Then now from 2 p.m. to 7 p.m. That's 800 shillings for 30 to 45 minutes. So these are for people who have booked an appointment in advance. Then at night what we call the graveyard shift, which means the phones are always on. So even if you call in the graveyard shift, which is from now 7 p.m. till 8 a.m. in the morning, that's a thousand shillings. So the most, I don't want to say most expensive, but the highest amount is 1800 for 30 to 45 minutes. So this happens when you make an instant call. So an instant call is in that moment of need now, now, I'm calling release and now, now. That means we will have to ensure that someone has dropped everything they are doing to handle it. To handle it. And now that's 1800 is for a public holiday or weekend because you see everyone has time. I mean every client has time at that point. So that's 1800 shillings. That's the highest that you charge. But when you've booked an appointment, 500, 800, a thousand, but depending on what time you're calling. Right. And you mentioned that the friends of will listen who actually just sponsor some people. So when people, for those that can't afford it, do they express that before and you see if there's a way you can help them? Some do, some do and sometimes, excuse me, sometimes when they say in advance, we'll let them know that, okay, how long do you want to have? Or how long do you think you can manage a conversation? Then we let you know, we have someone who can cater for this. If not, then some people will say, for now I don't have, but I'll have money in a week. Then now it's up to us to decide, is it doable, is it not doable? All right. Yes, yes. All right. That's fair enough. Now before we finish on will listen, there's something that I wanted to ask. I don't know why, you know, but we'll get back to it. Now you being a mental health advocate, you speak in high schools, you speak in primary schools, tell us a little bit about that also. So we realize that in high school, dealing from our experiences are one of the places that our mental health took a hit and we are still suffering for some of the things that happened there. True. And with the current trend of performance, high performing, you need to perform nicely, you need to perform, you need to excel. So we realize the pressure that is in schools and post high school, that's high school and these young adults after high school. So what we do is, we do outreaches and create the same, so the same space we create for you virtually, we create for them in schools. So for example, we go to a high school and create the same space for them, but now physically so that they can talk about what's happening. And now what happens is we ask the teachers, please do not ask us for feedback and do not sit in the sessions. So that's just a conversation between us and them. And even in cases like those you realize, some of them need more than you can offer. So now it's upon us to ask them, please ask your parents, cause you see they're underage, ask your parents once you go home to get in touch with us in this number or when you go home, get in touch with us with this number and then now we can reach out to the parents because you see if they're in high school, it's only so much you can do without parental consent. So that happens in workshops where you're dealing with disadvantaged youth. So workshops hold space for them to talk about what's there. You're not offering them money or housing or anything, you're just creating a space for them to share the challenges that they are facing. And then now from then, for some reason, it becomes easier to face the next day after you've talked about it because you realize it's not that big anymore because sometimes something weighs heavily on us before you speak it. Then after you speak it, you realize it's not that big anymore. It's not that big after all. Okay, now remember the question. And therefore for the virtual space, for the client now, do you have do's and don'ts for them, like most of it is based on the client, the timing, however long you want it, if you're venting, if you're crying, but the do's and don'ts that are set for the client that you... The only don't I would say is do not cross a moral line. You may realize if you're talking to a female or you're a female talking to a man, you cannot just start anything sexual, anything disrespectful, insults, that is the only don't. But anything else, we can handle. And the moment we realize that something is going different, we haven't had that experience though, but we've discussed that then what happens if this happens, then we'll very respectfully decline the call. And even if you don't pay or you haven't paid, it's fine because you know, you have to protect your space, your energy also as a listener, because what happens if now someone is constantly calling with insults or even sexual advances. So you see that again starts to make you uncomfortable and now you're the one who needs a safe space now, not even them. Yeah, exactly. Okay, I love that you also create a safe space for your listeners. For yourself, yes. So because they also get to choose what platform they can use to call. So you can call via the usual phone call, WhatsApp voice call, WhatsApp texts. There's the option of Zoom or Google, but now that one, you have to be really vetted because you have to come from a referral of a firm body. Because again, that becomes a big complication. Because a big complication. We may find ourselves shifting from we listen to only fans without knowing it. So, yeah, so you have to make sure that it's very, you've vetted the person of you had the interaction before and they're saying, I want to show you something, I want to talk about this. Because that's on video now. Yes, and again, that's also now something that's a premium charge because again, video means space, all these things. Yeah, okay, but you're also coming into my space. Yes, now you're coming into my space. I'm wanting space for you, but now you're also coming into my space. Okay, that makes sense. It allows things to become less complicated because the veil of being a stranger helps. Somebody can talk to you about anything. True. But now if we start getting familiar like this, you'll start to think, what if I bump into you in town and then you recognize me and start to realize, you're that person. So the veil helps, but occasionally we take on those calls. Okay, all right, I think it's fair enough, it's great. It's fair enough, we have to put our energy, our space so that we can give the same to everyone else. All right, what do you see? What do you see it going? We listen, what do you see it going? What's your vision for the next coming years? Our vision is to walk around and people will say, I just care about what we listen. Do you know about what we listen? Not because of TV interviews or things like that, because of the impact we're having. And where we're looking to be is to shift from being remote to a call center where now you can call toll free, but there's a budget for that that's coming from, I wouldn't say, but you know, the pipelines, the collaborations, what we're working on. That's where we're looking to be. So that now you don't just call a few numbers here and there, it's an actual toll center, a call center where you can call and there are several, there are a number of people who now can listen to you, just talk. But again, even as a call center in private, because the next person doesn't need to hear what you're saying. What you're saying. Yes, or what you're talking about. Okay, wonderful. That's where we're going. Wonderful. I think it's great. I think I love it. We are manifesting and working towards it, not just manifesting, manifesting and working towards it. And working towards it, very important. All right, as we close up, what do you want people to know? Either in mental wellness or anything that you really want to share and you can look directly to your camera. I know it may sound very cliche, but I'm just about to say it's okay not to be okay. Like when you embrace that, you're able to look for help in whatever form it is. And everyone around is going through something. So don't think that just because you're dealing with something, the next person is a hundred percent enthriving. If you're crying in public, they are crying in private. All of you are crying just different years. So it's okay not to be okay and reach out for whatever type of support that you feel that you need, not because of the people that are telling you whatever type of support that you feel you need. That's it. Okay, thank you very much for coming up with this brilliant idea and for coming on to share with us in the show. Thank you very much for having me. All right, so that has been Charity Wairimo who is a mental health advocate also the founder and CEO of Wheelies and Hub, a virtual listening space. What we've called a virtual best friend. I hope you've taken something from this that you need to speak out. You need to let someone know what you're going through. If you are not comfortable with speaking to your friend, you don't know comfortable with speaking to a counselor, then you have a stranger who you can speak to a virtual best friend. Get in touch with them. My name is Stefania and we're going to take a short break and then Sakwa will be back with more. Stick with us.