 Good All right, and we're live. I'm Annie Johnson founder of the 21 convention in 21 studios here live in Orlando, Florida with Rolo Tommasi The one and only rational now. Yeah, thanks for coming in. Thanks. Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be in Florida Yeah, a lot of people I did some some live cast I guess from some periscopes from the road Just last week and I think a lot of people already know that I have Have a new base of operations. I have two places that I'm living right now I've got I just bought a property in Florida in case everybody was wondering what the hell is he driving across the country before I've got any place in Florida is just sort of facilitate some business that I'm doing here And then of course to be a little bit closer to the event and to you know to work with you on some projects And then just you know my own my own work And then so I'm fluctuating between Reno and Florida. You used to live in Central Florida too, right? I did I lived in Central Florida from 2005 until 2013 and then I was a I was the principal creative for an import export for wine since wine is first liquor liquor And I have I have a couple of a couple of brands that I have ownership stake in still That company the import export company divested in 2013 and then I just went and started doing freelance I started actually working for myself for the first time. I mean, I was kind of working for myself with them You know, I find it still amazing how you looked at for a couple years and made the convention going on so many years here And just had no idea you existed and stuff like that. Well, it's funny because I was writing about I started the started a blog 2011 okay, and I've been writing as The as a moderator for the so swap forms prior to that and then The guys on the forum said you really need to start blog and they introduced me to the guys like Roy see it Roush and say, you know, you really need to talk to these guys and get involved in that So I mean this is now kind of Manusphere history, I guess Because it wasn't even called a manusphere back then there wasn't really even so much red pill as it was, you know It's sort of turned into today But yeah, I was writing then I like said I've been in Central Florida since Oh gosh, oh 2004 really I started living here in 2005 and then stayed until about 2013 But you know that saw the inception of the blog and saw a lot of the stuff that I put into the first book And a lot of the stuff that was in we had our last event in Orlando. I think in 2011 It was so yeah, we had it in 2007 and 2011 in Orlando Yeah, that's good to be back I Getting out here. I'm Refamiliarizing myself with the traffic situation this year, so cool. Yeah, so guys during this live stream We're actually gonna take questions live on the chat. I think you see it on my right here So if you guys ask a question, we'll get into it Oh, there's I've been thrown to it's going on bud. Yeah, right on. Yep. I've been And also the focus of this live stream is different obviously than the red man group This is us in studio talking. We're gonna discuss the upcoming 21 convention this year in Orlando, Florida October 11 to the 14th where you can get tickets at the 21 convention org. That's dot org Or in the video description right beneath this video. There's a link. You can click it. Go get tickets I'll be there myself, of course as well as Rolla Tomasi and right now 18 other speakers in addition to us Including just signed on today. Hypnotica Eric Bonsidao who's a speaker last year. Cool. Yeah, I remember He was very well received from both like crowds the red pill crowd and like the uh, like pua crowd. That's pretty cool Yeah, he's old school too. Are you listening? Yeah. Yeah, he's in the game. Yeah, he's in the game That's right. I think his name in the game was not hypnotic. It was like resputing or something like that Everybody's very he's been teaching coaching men since like the 90s So who else do we have this year? We have a whole bunch we're actually gonna go through the speakers and kind of discuss them one by one with you guys So obviously we have a beautiful bastard Anthony dream Johnson and Rolla Tomasi After that, we have Socrates an alumni speaker at the convention spoken many times And hunter drew the family alpha Cool. Yeah, it's good to have hunter back. Um, I I think I was one that suggested we bring him on I think hunter brings a different aspect Really, I think uh At least as far as what I've been You know talking to you about like when we first when I first Decided that I wanted to come on to this project. Uh, I said, you know, I'll do it But I want to see it, you know lean a little bit more to a red pill Um From intersexual dynamics perspective red pill, uh, you know a theme I guess and you were ready to go with that So lean in as hard as I can but I think that um The great thing that this event has sort of evolved into Is that we have such a depth I think of speakers now and they can all speak to different aspects of like Becoming better men Being you know living in a red pill aware You know, I don't say ideology is not But living in a red pill. It's a praxe ology right praxe all yeah But I mean being because I think that a lot of guys come to The red pill and then you've got guys who are All they want to do is they want to learn how to get laid and there's a pickup artist aspect of it And then you've got guys who are married and maybe they were awakened well married And they decided that you know, they wanted to change something about themselves. They want to change You know change your life. So I think those are kind of too almost I don't want to say that polar opposites are not really opposites But they are certainly represent different ideals when it comes to red pill thought because you know guys who are married Are going to want to have you know, I don't see why they can't learn red pill awareness and understand how to Use that to benefit themselves we have We have speakers like Who else is well, we'll go through. Yeah, we go through. I was gonna say is hunter actually brings sort of uh, that uh, traditional traditional masculinity to the table um he He I think he's an interesting add to this because I mean the guy's married. He's got a different perspective. I think I I really I really think that he's he's got something that's I'm gonna say he's unique to him because there's other guys that do what he does But I think that just the The way that he goes about it and he's got some other program I think going around now called fraternity of excellence and so he does these programs and stuff for for guys as well And it's it's very much. Uh, I would say action oriented. So he's he does these acting on verbose. He's that yeah, yeah, exactly and it's very much action oriented and very much, uh, you know, I think Much more encouraging isn't it encouraging? Yeah Yeah, something lacking in today's culture too that's trend Next up on the list. We have jack murphy I recently published a book called democrat to deplorable. I believe Uh, someone you recommended to me. Yeah another guy. Um Jack used to and it's not his real name, but he might as well be because he's he's really made a name for himself Yeah, he did get doxed very recently Um, and he's been put through the ringer. So I I have been in contact with jack for a very long time There was a point where he was very much involved in red pill community from an intersexual dynamics perspective and then decided that he wanted to sort of do a little bit more be a little more involved in the political side of things and That's not really my wheelhouse. I guess as far as, you know, the red pill is concerned but definitely Definitely a guy I think has a really good perspective, particularly when it comes to the social socio-political side of the red pill with respect to Intersexual dynamics, which is of course one of the reasons why he got doxed recently is because he ended up uh, I guess Getting caught in the radar of some antifa chick. I can't I'm not even sure yeah She's now in jail actually. I think he was also too a school board member. I think Yeah, and it's really kind of tragic I think that and I'm probably not doing him justice because I'm I wish I was a little bit more familiar Than I am but uh, I mean we actually uh, when we first started the red man group We were using our super chats to sort of help him out with his lead. That's right. His legal defense He got doxed and ended up losing his job and more than that he ended up losing his I think he was a coach for For a little link I think that's right ended up getting kicked off as a coach for something like that and basically just You know completely ruined his life. So it was like Sometimes we need those things because it sort of pushes us into the next phase, you know Like I mean, yeah, it sucks that he got that he got doxed and it sucks that he's had to have his What I Was called having his bread taken away from him. I tried to destroy you Um, well it raises awareness and action too. Yeah, like yeah, he's gonna speak now Like write a book where people are sending money. Yeah, he's written a book He's got I think he sort of pushed that this whole incident has sort of pushed him over the edge to Doing what he does a little bit more full-time now. I'm not sure that he's got his job back, but man, who does that remind me of, uh, you know Were you real with tomasi? Oh, well, yeah Well, I don't know. It's like I I just decided I mean if you've someone talked about me personally I I didn't get doxed but I did not get doxed. Um, I have been doxed in the past But that was that was probably about four or five years ago. Um, that's when I was really worried more about I'm really more concerned about the safety of my family and my my daughter and my dogs or whatever Because uh, you know, I I don't have to worry too much about offending wrong people with what I say now There was a time where I was like when I was telling you I was working for For the import exporter I had to be very careful with that because I was representative of at least 12 different brands at that time And if I was to be Viewed in the wrong light with any one of them it could have been something that was very detrimental But now that I'm out of that situation and I'm a much more antifragile, I guess I'm at a point right now where I don't have to worry too much about that, but that's not to say that other people don't I mean even a guy like hunter still has to worry about getting doxed. So you know, even if you have like a really A really positive message you're still going to just because you are Taking a pro masculine stance today Just because you do that in any conventional sense they're going to associate with you with misogyny no matter what I mean you could You can literally be Uh, a pro. I mean you take a guy like uh, dr. Warren ferrell for instance who I mean I I think has had a lot of great things to say in the past Not a guy I would recommend today as far as Being a red pill kind of guy because he seems to me some as somebody that's very much egalitarian and very much an equalist, but um Again, even if you've got a guy who is putting What he talks about in the most positive light that he possibly can in today's social environment you're going to Always risk, you know being doxed or always risk Having your words twisted around to be whatever that other people and essentially it's because all masculinity is seen as toxic No. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So anything's promising. Well, I mean and I mean we can talk about Peterson later on if you want But I mean recently he's been sort of Villified by the left because of his comments about what enforced monogamy. Yeah, I saw that Which of course if I'm reading this or if I'm listening to this, I understand what he's talking about But I also know that he probably knew maybe he did maybe didn't probably knew that he was going to be deliberately Misconstrued because that again is the environment that we find ourselves in right now socially Because anything they can hit you with exactly will hit you. Yeah. I mean, is there anything he can say that's not going to be Misconstrued same with you. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, that's why I'm just I'm a see for a guy like me I'm at a point where it's like I don't have to worry too much about offending like I said the wrong people But that doesn't mean that other people such as Jack Murphy, for instance Definitely has to watch out for that And you get I think you draw an even bigger target on yourself when you get into the social Political arena for this kind of stuff. You probably attract more enemies basically. Oh, definitely. I mean it was Antifa Yeah, there you go. I've been thrown knows about antifa. We'll get to having thrown in a minute Let's get next to the next speaker on the list for the upcoming event this year in the land of florida 21 con Richard Cooper returning speaker from entrepreneurs and cars. Yes. Excellent. I'm glad to have rich back Rich and I have sort of developed a really good friendship and I Like when I Asked you. Hey, why don't we why don't we get rich on for the last years? I think I had talked to Well, that's how I found him through you. Yeah, I think I had talked to him twice and he was very very much into The first book that I you know very he attributes that for his sort of awakening And uses my work in a lot of his Why it's called therapy, but it is his counseling and his Advice and his coaching and stuff like that Really I like I like rich because he puts into practice what I write about as far as theory is concerned And he he's a good guy if you're looking for actionable things like I'm my My approach is I am descriptive and not prescriptive and anybody who knows anybody's read my my work understands why I'm Prescriptive But if you're looking for somebody who is Proscript prescriptive. I guess you and I would I recommend riches. Yes the top guy to talk to It's fucking awesome Yeah, it's interesting too. He's actually so far the most popular speaker out of the 2017 event in terms of views Which I did not see coming. You're doing really strong too and other guys jack or jack donovan all them And I don't have a I don't have a youtube channel. I mean not an official one anyways I mean I have a reserved channel that I have not done. Yeah, but that might change soon I might well with him. It was just a comment. It was a clip. He took out of the speech You know focusing on single mothers and that now has almost half a million views Oh, yeah, yeah, because it's very triggering and it sparks a conversation And that's you know, everybody who knows my my writing one of the reasons I push my the print version of my book So much is because I want to spark those conversations between people and That I think is is where we're at when it comes to Manisphere and the fennosphere and the books are also hard to delete, you know that that too you got to burn them But it's also, uh, I mean I I see us becoming very much I mean, we're already a very polarized country right now our polar and then and there's there's polarization not just between Um, not just between political and ideological lines. There's gender lines right now too And I think that people really don't appreciate just how polarized the sexes are right now. I 100 agree I think we're an obviously the minority thing on that though Next speaker we're going to talk about is alan roger curry the turning speaker to the event and the first It was also the first black speaker we ever had in our history at the event. Yeah, um, I Another guy that I've I've developed a really good friendship with over the years. I I got in touch with alan roger curry through another video blogger None is obsidian and Well, things things have kind of changed between the two of them. I don't know actually I mean, maybe that'd be that'd be a good topic to bring up when it's time we have I mean, he's been on the run Yeah, yeah, briefly he was on you Yeah, he uh, he he ended up turning me on to uh to alan and alan has uh, he's got A channel on blog talk radio. Yeah, and he does his own thing As far as his kind of coaching is much more about direct game and it's it's sort of uh, he's a good guy to Cut the bullshit and get right down to to the nuts and I'm a huge fan Yeah, I am too. He's he's very much about pragmatism and I like that because you know I try to be as pragmatic as I can and what I write about Uh, I think that the thing that makes him I don't say controversial, but the things that make makes him talked about is Uh, that directness right now is always something that's going to be triggering particularly in a post me to Society because what he suggests while it's very pragmatic and very to the point Uh, it can be misconstrued as uh sexual misconduct or sexual assault right now if it's taken the wrong way So I get into we get to these conversations. We I think we did on the red band group We get into these conversations about should Uh, should you be that direct in an era when you can lose your job for that? I certainly you don't want to be that. You know, hey, baby. I find you attractive. I'm gonna have sex with you I mean that can certainly be taken the wrong way when you're at war. Yeah, that's a version of it too. Um, and while I think that that's a good I I think that direct approach has a lot of merits to it I do think that in this day and age it's it's a bit dangerous and maybe that's something we want to talk about this year yeah yeah Cool next up is donovan sharp from the sharp reality. We need to do we need to explain here donovan sharp One of the top contributors on uh, one of the top band people banned on twitter and youtube apparently yes, um Donovan's a great guy and anybody who's watched the red man group and if you're watching this you've probably watched the red man group He's he's a regular on the red band group. Um, which is probably something we should probably talk about During this talk as well. Um, and you know the future of that project But donovan is very unspoken. Uh, he is very to the point very aggressive. He's very aggressive And that's just who he is and that's how he does it. I've never heard anything from him that hasn't been You know founded in you know a red pill awareness as a bit founded in something that you know I think one of the reasons that people have such a problem with donovan is first of all his his delivery is very rough but It's rough and it's to the point and it's truthful. It's very masculine and it's very masculine and he uh It just like say his delivery is very very to the point very rough, but uh, I have Yet to find anyone who can really dispute much of what he has to say So as a result of that he gets kicked off of youtube and he gets kicked off of twitter by the you know blue haired fuchsia haired you know feminist thought police on those channels and You know, it's I think what's interesting is he's he's going to be a good example of what's going to happen. I think Uh, I would I'm going to make a prediction here. I'm going to say probably with the next couple of years I think you're going to see a lot of the man's fear is going to migrate from youtube and from Uh twitter over to other formats or other platforms. I should say like gab Yeah, gab is i'm on gab too by the way. Um Um You're going to see people moving. Oh, that's one of the reasons I kind of am hesitant about starting my own youtube channel right now because Uh, I mean my delivery is I try to be as clinical as I possibly can in my delivery But you know every once in a while I pepper in a This or if that But I mean if you're going to do that I mean we we've discussed this before you know with the red man group I mean you got to keep everything PG 13 for these people So you don't want to give them anything because there are they already want to get rid of you they're just looking for a chance to get rid of you and Donovan at every At every turn gives them something that it's interesting. He got he got banned But we have never had a single problem on youtube other than demonetization. So we get that like we expect that Yeah, we expect that Yeah, I think I think our channel has gotten to the point with size that at least as of yet We've had no problems and there's been no attempt to delete or ban the channel that could change in the future But I think as you get bigger the probability that goes down actually is is donovan still on patreon Yes, he's not been banned. So he hasn't been kicked off because I know a few people who had been kicked off Yeah, someone else today got kicked off. Um, I forget who I could track, but it was some big patreon account It was kind of alt-right or something like that and they just ended up banning it Right. Well, I mean if you look at a guy like Milo Yiannopoulos You say well, you know, is there life after twitter? Yes, there's definitely life It takes some doing Milo's got his own channel on youtube right now too And very huge very popular and they can't really argue with that My like I said, and maybe this is a conversation for another maybe a red man group actually, but I think that That the most popular platforms today Are looking for ways to de-platform Manusphere speakers they're looking for for reasons to do that I think that within a couple of years that migration is going to happen My if I have a fear about anything I think a lot of people think that, you know, once you've declared yourself as anti-fragile that you can You don't have to worry about anything anymore. I'll tell you right now That there is no such thing as being 100 anti-fragile. There's always something that you are dependent on And right now And that's one of the reasons that I don't want to quit my day job Because I don't ever want to be financially dependent on having to worry about book sales or having to be kicked off of youtube Yeah, that kind of stuff. I never want to have to compromise my message because of that And then like I said, but but in that realm If I have a greatest fear it is being de-platformed off of say like, uh wordpress or being de-platformed off of amazon Well, do you run your site on wordpress.com or is it self-hosted? I run it on wordpress.com. Oh, yeah, they could yeah, so they can but I have a very I've got I reach about half a million Viewers every month. I got a I have a very pot. I mean if you go and you look at my Alexa ratings and I'm way up there right now. I mean it's far as we could also migrate it to wordpress self-hosted Yeah, and that's and that's probably going to be something I'm kind of coming up in the future I would have a really hard time banning you from that's another thing I have in the works right now I'm considering doing a forum right now for the Rational forum. Nice. I'm I've got a guy working on Working on it for me right now. I'm going to do the I'm going to do the front end. I'm gonna have him do the back end And so that's coming up. I'm also thinking like I said, I'm thinking about doing a youtube channel, but Again, I'm a little concerned about platforming right now, particularly with guys like Donovan. Yep Next speaker up. Actually, we skipped him. Ivan throne the dark tribe and Returning speaker to the convention from last year Uh, I everybody fucking love this guy. Yeah, like it was awesome. Ivan is another very he's a firebrand in a big way Because he he will go out and punch faces I mean, I don't mean that in a literal sense. I mean that in a and self-defense But he'll he goes out there and he's not afraid to go out and directly challenge Again, he's more socio-political. He's he He and I have been YouTube Have been twitter friends for for quite some time now And I mean he's he's on board with With a lot of what I write, but again, he's not a guy that's really in my wheelhouse but again, he's he's one of the The one of the speakers who sort of covers a specific area, I think That's how I get said that's a great thing about this about the 21 convention is that there's so it's so diverse right now. It's like there's There's no matter where you are in your life as a man There's somebody there who is going to teach you something Even the people you don't think I and you and I have had this conversation before where I have I've said before like when I was at university and I was I remember taking these classes and I was You know, I was older when I was you know, I got my degree when I was in my 30s Yeah, so I was there with with kids in their 20s, you know complaining. Oh, I'm never going to use this class for anything fuck this and And I'm like, you know Having an education itself is is rewarding no matter what because you're going to learn something You know half of the reason that I became role of tamas and I write what I do is because I took those classes that I didn't think would have anything to do With you know my my major or what it was that I planned on doing in life I think that being a well educated man is its own reward And that's one of the reasons I like What we're doing here is because it gives you a better breath of of speakers Well, if I'm not mistaken too high school used to do that in the united states a long time ago Yeah, yeah, really a long time ago You go to high school and you'd be you don't like a college level education compared to today. Yeah, yeah, um But yeah, there's I mean, I could remember taking like humanities classes or you know what guys would say is liberal education Um, I I found a lot I got a lot of value out of those But I got value out of them indirectly not directly And I think that that's if I'm making a comparison here I'm thinking that they're you're going to benefit from going to this In ways that you don't think that you're going to benefit you know Why would I want to go make that kind of money to go see just you know Because I only want to see rollo or I only want to see Donovan or I only want to see those I bet I trust me the guys that we've got lined up for this is just This year is I don't want to take anything away from last year because that's pretty good Because that was sort of the the the new benchmark for for what we're doing, but I think that Yeah, I agree this convention the one coming up. It's like a second generation red pill edition of the event Last year was the first edition. It was badass And you can't argue with with the numbers you can't argue with the results and the feedback on it too Oh, yeah, so yeah, it's gonna be great to have a business is booming Like the more the more we embrace the red pill and controversial ideas like that the better things do It's risky. I mean no doubt. Yeah, it's all around and it's not I think the the great thing and like you and I have Had this conversation before it's like one of the reasons like I turn I turned anthony down a couple of times When he invited me to come to 21 convention I turned down all part of the plan Yeah, because because I really felt that it was very much purple pill and it was very much sort of sell you my My 12 step program to a better life or here's here's the the steps to Being a better man kind of thing and it'd be fair. You were 100 right if at least like half the convention Thank you. I'd like to think it was but uh, the That's the great thing. I think about this is like, yeah, there's guys like say say hunter who is going to Gonna talk probably gonna talk about I don't know what is Is the only topic is but I think he's gonna talk about us fraternity of excellence type thing Right. So, you know, there's there you're gonna listen to that. It's at some point I think a lot of guys don't realize that it's really rare. I demand a speaker talk about a specific topic I invite you to the event and I expect you to speak about your focus and that's it Yeah, after that stuff you guys whatever you guys want. Yeah, and that's and that's again That's the beauty of it. What do you think? You know, if you consider this a red pill summit, what is it that you want to be remembered for because a lot of I mean, we've got what 10 well now 11 years soon to be 11 years of video I mean somebody what what is your contribution to the manager? What is your contribution to this aspect of the red pill in terms of speaking to in my mind? It's like what do you use a speaker thing is important for men to hear What do they need to hear right now with regard to what you focus on? Yeah, and that's good and I like getting that feedback from guys. I like You know, I have such a wide variety of guys who hit me up I got I got kids who are 15 years old saying, oh, you know, how do I get my girl from back? And then I've got guys who are 70 years old who are just saying hey, you're 15 year old girl from yes I have you know, I will tell you I have talked to kids as young as 12 years old who are just distraught because A girl turned them down and you know, we've been I was talking about this with Pat Campbell not too long ago It's like this is the generation that we have to prepare for I mean This is why it's important that we're doing what we're doing here and on our own and our you know, because We go for a whole year I go for a whole year being Rolla Tomasi and writing a book or writing discs or doing whatever products You do your thing Ivan does his thing other speakers do their thing and we come together You know at at the summit and we say here's what we're doing right now And here's where we think things are going and then We're there for four days It's guys getting together doing guy stuff and talking talking about things that would otherwise probably get you fired Oh, yeah, you know if if you were to talk about them in in any other context And then we go off and we do our things together or maybe we cooperate on certain projects things and then we come back The red man groups the next example Exactly exactly red man group was and you know, it's funny and well maybe we should talk about this later But red man group was just sort of a casual thing I don't think people really realize that people think that it was like some you know grand conspiracy or something We didn't have a name for it. Yeah, we didn't have a name for it We're just like hey, why don't we get like like four or five guys together Who are you know some of the more speakers or some of the people that I think that would like People in the man's sphere people on you know the twitter side of man's sphere Would want to hear from and so now I've got ryan ryan was a speaker We've got carl from black label logic. It's basically speakers or speakers to be Yeah, we've had a limitable man. We've had you know donovan's a regular now And then we we are you know, we kind of flip flopped it between you hosting and richard cooper hosting So now it's sort of become Uh, it's snowballed into something that I never thought it was going to be and I'm I'm I'm actually very excited We should use uh, george barino's channel at some point too. I think so. He's got a good 60 000 Well, anybody on the list would be great. Oh, yeah Well, anybody that's particularly with the big channel like that because then it pings it out. It's a shit ton of views like that Right, so So who's next next up on the list is sean smith's id. Yes first clinical psychologist to speak of the convention Yeah, and I I'm glad to have him on board because he brings a Really a legitimacy to to a lot of the stuff that we say I mean, I I've got a background in psychology as well, but I'm not a I don't have a doctor And I don't do it for a living and you're on the FBI Yeah, and I think that what sean is doing by coming and speaking at this is really I don't think that people really appreciate how much of his ass He's putting on the line to do this because it's he could very well lose his practice Or if he if he gets associated with this kind of steak with a red pill kind of thing It gets right going after his license. Yeah, they could very much go after his license. I could very much Even sarkatives worried about that. He's in canada too. So no, no, he's in colorado Denver, okay Oh, I think of him as being canadian because he's always with rich So well was also uh, jordan peterson. So yeah, that that's you. Well. Anyway, so, I mean, it's very He's taking a risk by doing what what he does I he's been on the red man group at least twice maybe three times. Yeah, two times and uh He he brings a depth of experience. I think just to the conversation where where I mean I would say that dr. Smith dr. Smith and I Agree on probably say 95 percent of he's also the author of a tactical guide for women So people don't know that he was the author of that book, which I think is really really good Yes, uh, I think so from a again a nuts and bolts Perspective well, I guess book two because it's it reminds me of your book a lot But it's not from the manuscript Manusphere perspective. It's from a psychologist perspective. Yes And it's really easy for guys to grab on to who are not familiar with like the lingo and the acronyms and stuff like that Yeah, so your book and his book with the two books. I recommend most right now I'm doing I'm doing my best to sort of try to lean away from acronyms a little bit You know, I mean when I say smv or smp most people know what I'm doing TRP And you know, it's funny. It's like that is those acronyms just represent groups. I can remember one was talk about a fcs And we talked about you know Average frustrated sergeing and all of this old school game vernacular I think we're kind of moving back away from that But um, but yeah, I I get I get I feel you and I Message received I get it I mean it made your book of course made perfect sense to me But the average guy, you know working at walmart or something. Yeah, they're not they're not understanding that kind of stuff So for they have to they have to you know, I try to put a A synopsis or a glossary in the back. But yeah, having Sean is really I think he's a great addition to this and I'm interested to see what he's going to talk about It's probably going to be about his practice or probably going to be because he specialized I don't think he's a marriage counselor, but he specializes in couples counseling and he does so from a red pill perspective And he's not the only guy I've ever heard about that because one of the one of the I think one of the biggest compliments I ever had I got at last year's Convention because I had guys coming up to me saying hey I got your book because my my therapist or the guy that I see my Psychologist suggested I read your book and that's why I actually made the trip out here to meet you and everything Damn that changed my life. And so since then I've had at least three other guys Tell me the same thing and then I've had uh, at least a couple other You know male therapists. I guess come back to me and say yeah, I use your book this Next up on the list is jack donovan author of the way of men returning speaker to the event from last year Yeah, I and he was the my most memorable Speech speech was you know, I want to say experience because I because we went had had Dinner with them and hung out with them for a while When it comes to and this is I was actually just there was people who know jack's background You know, I I get I get what you're going to think but he has the He has the this understanding I mean he's written so much about what I call in my books conventional masculinity and really has a way of articulating You know The tribal masculinity. What was this? I lost the title of his his speech last time a more complete beast a more complete beast Just came out actually on youtube. Yeah, I'm absolutely fan. I would suggest anybody go go check that out But it's absolutely I mean, I understand that the guy is gay, but the guy honest to god knows I mean, maybe it takes a guy like that I mentioned that to him. Maybe it takes a guy like that to really You know step away from it because you know, you got these It's interesting how we have like mig tasks who say they want to step away from the game and they want to you know, they don't I want to put my Put my self-worth into, you know, having to qualify for women I feel you I get you I agree 100% but There's no more a complete way of doing that than doing what jack don Well, he understands masculinity from a different perspective. Yeah factually speaking. I think that's I think he brings a very valuable piece And he was also the first gay speaker that we've ever known about the convention. So Yeah, I don't care. I mean over black white gays. Well, and that's you know, I've always said that you know We need to have an aggregate of all men's experience Whether you're no matter what country you're from no matter what color your skin is religion no matter what your religion is And I'm working on a book on religion right now and I've learned that I really got to I've had to Open the parameters of that book quite a bit. I had originally Focused on an evangelical, you know, I wanted to speak to the evangelical beta guy and say Christian guys in specific and then people picked up on that I was writing about religion in the red pill and everybody wanted to help me with it I've seriously got a dozen guys that are helping me, you know with with I mean, I'm the one writing a book, but they're giving me articles and they're giving me research and they're giving me their experiences And I think that's really valuable, but that's one small area. I mean, that's the religious area of the red pill But I really think that from a cultural standpoint From socioeconomic standpoint, I mean you think about how many other ways can we sort of subdivide masculinity? Well, if we can do that at the At the convention, that's that's great, but I've always I've always Wanted to at least take in to account every guy's experience and then again aggregate that as you know red pill awareness Well, even with the speakers, I find it amazing that the convention this year will have, you know, I'm a devout Objectivist atheist. There's also devout Christians, Catholics, Mormons I'm part Jewish myself too. Ross Jeffries is Jewish Ashkenazi Jew, although the triple parentheses, right? Yeah, so the convention really though is a really hardcore melting pot of different philosophies and religions like that Which wasn't the intention, but this is how it turns out That's how it works and I really and you know that was really my my perspective from the beginning Is like I will talk to guys in You know Mumbai or you know, South Africa or I'll talk to people in China or talk to people in Japan It's like I have so I've so many guys hit me up from around the world that it would be very foolish for me to just say Well, you know, I don't hear your experience doesn't count No, every guy's experience accounts because women are women wherever you go Next up on the speaking list is black dragon or Caleb Jones. He runs the black dragon blog and a few others You'll have to tell me about black dragon because I know him and I've read his stuff before and He has I know he's quoted my stuff On occasion Uh, and from what I know is very he's he's very popular as far as yeah His blog is a solid following over 20,000 followers. He's not uh, I don't think he's big I don't think so. No He uh, what he promotes I think is called an alpha alpha male 2.0 lifestyle So it's sort of like a more practical version of my opinion of what you're writing about. He's very red pill Um, I don't know how much he identifies with the red pill, but from what he writes in his articles. It's very red pill Yep, and he's been recommended to me for years by a number of people that I've seen his blog over time Yeah, I I I see a lot of pingbacks in my comments from him And I have read I know I've read at least A good portion of what he's written Nope So he's just uh, he's a good man. Man is your blogger. I'm looking forward to having him at the event Yeah, I I'd like to know and then when he gives a speech we can see what happens. I think he's gonna kick ass Next up on the list is the one and only ed latimore I so wanted to get ed for last. He was oh, yeah, he was confirmed temporarily last year. Yeah And uh, unfortunately, we didn't get him last year, but uh, he's confirmed now It's confirmed now. So we got ed latimore, which I think is fantastic uh, if anybody has listened to The interview that I did with him on the mark baxter show way back when I think mark still has I think he's made those Because he took them off of the offline for a while. I think he put them back on But I have been a fan of ed's for quite some time. Uh, he brings, uh He brings a really positive message No If if there's one guy that I'm looking forward to from a positive masculinity, uh respect its ed He's also about self-development very much He calls himself now a self-improvement blogger. Yeah, I don't know I don't know that we really even need to like give him too much more of a introduction because ed's it's pretty popular. He's popular with, uh, I think he was doing he did he did something with sernovich for a while Uh, maybe yeah, he's been doing something with sernovich and he's done some other He does a lot of speaking engagements and you know, he was a he was a boxer Yep, um, he just graduated from college and I can't remember what he was studying He's studying physics degree in physics. I think or does he have a doctorate? I'm not sure. I can't remember I know that he just recently graduated congratulations ed. Um But yeah, he just the the guy is just a fantastic mind and really again I'm looking forward to meeting him in person and done a couple of talks with him before and He and I bounce ideas off each other Cool, look forward to him Next up on the list is alexander j. A. Cortez Uh, twitter star extraordinary You've talked i've talked to him a little bit in the phone. You know, um, uh more than I do them Uh, I i've known aj for a while. Um, mostly, uh, you know be a twitter He had and again, these are guys that i've met because they've in some way either Impressed me in some way or they've you know He used my material as a basis for some point that they're making and then I get a ping back for him And I just sort of followed him after that Uh aj is an interesting character. Uh, I have we let's see. We had him I've been on his show because he's got kind of a A podcast Is he doing it regular because I didn't know if he puts the video on youtube And I think he has an itunes or sound club podcast for two So I went on his show once and then we had him on the red man group with When richard was was hosting. Yeah, so and so he's He's a really good guy Very much into personal development again He does he does personal training and then I believe he does Like coaching of some sorts. He does some sort of I'm not sure red pill coaching. I'm not really sure He will probably be able to tell us better than others, but he is also a ballet dancer. That's right Yeah, ballet in in hella good shape. He's in gray, you know And also looks like 29 29 years old. It helps that he looks like jesus Oh, he's that young. He's my age 29. Yeah, and uh, that's what he told me last time Um, really good guy. I think he brings, um What does he bring to what would you say aj it brings to him? I think he brings, uh Sort of a I don't want to say I'm spirituality, but so maybe in a way he does the golden and golden brings this sort of Yeah, um, I think I think aj is really more About personal development. I think he's the If I had to say what what does he bring to the table? I think he's the the personal development guy Uh in a different fashion than say like ed. No, it would be He has more of a focus on health and fitness to health and fitness for sure. Um, and you know, what's funny is, uh aj was on Not uh, what's uh Pastor peterson dr. Peter not not not oh jesse peterson. Yeah, he was on the show with that And I remember like seeing him on that going because I I went on I went on jesse peterson's show And I remember watching watching aj on there and like on this guy's this guy's got it together. So yeah, I thought that was pretty cool Yeah, jesse's great. Yes, like this bad-ass questions. Yeah, just I would just yeah, he's fantastic. And he again, that's another guy I think that I think jesse has uh The guy's like almost 70 years old the guy's like 68 69 years old and he gets out there He gets in people's faces. Oh, yeah, I've seen a lot of these videos are fucking awesome. Yeah I don't know if they'll end up being speakers someday, but jesse peterson's definitely welcome at the event Oh for sure. I loved having he's fast whatever he is He's inspirational in a sense that he's a guy that goes out there and just does what he does I mean, he's got his radio show He's got the fallen state which is his podcast but his video podcast where he's got a one on one kind of thing That's what you went on. Yeah. No, I went on the radio show One eyes radio, which is also live cast as well. So he's got a real terrestrial radio show and then he's got the fallen state and then he also does sort of On the street kind of interviews and he will directly he will directly go up to people who he knows are his Ideological rivals or his ideological opponents and just go straight at him Yeah, the way the level of bluntness that guy has first questions. It's it's sort of polite, but it's just like Yeah, and he's like He's really good at um I want to say Socratic method. He'll ask questions that hand leads you to where he wants you to go Yep, I'm wondering if even knows he's doing Maybe next up on the list is goldman and leashed a returning speaker to the convention that roller recommended to me last year Yes, uh, goldman is great. He was one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse myself and goldman and tanner and The spirit leader of the convention Definitely the shaman of of this whole show I call him the indiana jones of the red pill And I think it's well deserved because he Is a guy who you want to talk about guys who live life on their own terms? He does it And he's the one who will go from place to place and is I would call him a digital nomad in the truest sense because he just picks up and goes wherever he wants to go He wants to experience life another guy who went on jesse peterson's show as well Oh, you're aware of that. I did not I did not see that. Um, and then well the reason that I That that was memorable to me. I need to watch that because again peterson just jesse peterson goes after goldman and saying, you know What do you think about life and asks him all these really deep kind of meaningful questions? And I it's interesting because he kind of picked up on the fact that like goldman knew or he knew that goldman was kind of this digital age I would say nomad but his digital age kind of hippie, you know, almost digital shaman He had digital shaman and he went after him and I can remember he was asking him about monogamy And the best I think the best line that that goldman ever came up with was the world is my wife That should give you an idea where goldman's at Goldman will go to I goldman has gone to the rainforests of the amazon to do Ayahuasca or whatever Ayahuasca And He is always not only is he entertaining. He teaches really good I think lessons for guys who are like me I can't imagine being like locked in a cubicle And working a nine to five job and then seeing goldman out there doing You know photo game because that's what he's known for this is photo game And so he's been kind of run up the flagpole recently on amazon um But you look at a guy like that and I think that he's sort of this This enigmatic kind of guy where it's like gosh, I you know Could I ever be something like that? Could I ever be that you know unattached to You know my responsibilities and what I have to do I'm saying that that goldman is irresponsible. I'm just saying that his life is a life that I would say Not too many not too many guys are I would put it that he's doing a very good job living life the way he wants Yes, like and it's he's level above me like I look at him. I'm like this guy is like the next level One of the things and I might have seen goldman's praises all this time But I think one of the best part about omen is that he has such he has a capacity to detach himself from From I don't call it normalcy, but he has such a way to just like the things that you and I would Find important when we look at like materialism or we we look at you know Wanting to have certain things in our life established like a bigger studio wife and a kid a studio this or a program He has such an ability to detach himself from certainly from material He could just pick up and go and do whatever he wants. He can be happy wherever the hell it is frog poison in my blood No problem Well, I mean we're talking about a guy who can go out with christian mcqueen to night clubs in you know in new york And and hold his own with a guy like christian mcqueen and then pick up and then the next day go sleep on the ground At some hot springs somewhere in the jungle or some shit like that Looking at a guy. Yeah, you're looking at a guy who can separate himself from that I just Maybe it's just me, but I find that amazing. Oh, yeah, it's admirable. It's cool Next up on the list is for the third time returning to the convention tanner guzzi Style expert He does he still have his own haberdashery does he have his own men's wear thing? I think He's still doing masculine style. I know that he's got a new book out, which I see that you have on your On your shelf right there. It's right there appearance of power That's right up here. No right in front right there. Oh, yeah. Yeah So many books. I know cool. There we go. Yeah tanners Not just a style guy. He gets into I think he goes into the nuts and bolts of Masculinity from an appearance. That's why it's dead appearance of power He deconstructs all of these I think a lot of guys have a I mean one of the one of the The misgivings I think a lot of guys have is like they say that well, you know Style doesn't matter to me or what, you know, I should you know, man should wear whatever a man wants to wear It doesn't he shouldn't think about that. Well, I used to think like that till 10 or he'd be at me too And he deconstructs That dynamic where it's like even the guys who are saying I don't care what I look like Okay, even that even if you dressed yourself in the morning you care in some way about how You are presenting yourself to the world and then he goes back I mean to historical references and you know back into ancient Greece and All through all through basically up to modern times right now And whenever I see something on twitter, somebody sends me like say this new fashion of like, you know, these really Super feminized men wearing, you know dresses and all this high family There was a magazine cover. It was uh the rise of the beta males or something Right, but they literally had their hands in the pockets in the pocket. So that's right. Yeah. So when I see stuff like that I think about And I can't and tanner you did this to me I cannot help but like look at guys and the way they dress right now and go What was this guy thinking? What is he trying? What message is this guy trying to convey with his appearance because The way you dress and the way you present yourself and it's not just about dressing I mean, it's the way you talk. It's the way you hold yourself. I mean, you know, we talk about George Peterson You know shoulders back and clean your room shoulder. Yeah, exactly that is Sending a message that is is communicating something and it's just non-verbal communication I think tanner really has a good grasp of that And like I said, not just in a sense of uh, here's what you should be wearing He doesn't he's not into that. I mean he has he'll say, you know, there's you know, you can be a rake He can be stylish and he has a whole set archetypes for for style and stuff for guys You know the rebel and that kind of stuff Honestly, his work too has actually helped me improve my game I'm actually better able to look at women and understand like what went into them picking this outfit and like how they're dressing Like how's the hair done? Yeah, and it's not just about guys. I mean you because when a woman is dressed in a certain way You can get an idea of like it's a lot of information. Where is she in a Robulatory phase. I mean is she wearing red, you know that kind of skin color and then just looking at what is that communicating I think that um I think that red pill awareness is Sort of a conglomeration of all of all of that is being able to see Nonverbal communication being able to listen to what women are saying and then comparing that with what their behavior really is Because we always talk about, you know, and I still 100% believe this is that, you know You want to watch where a woman does and not what she says But when you listen to what a woman says and then you compare it with what she does You can sort of see you learn something in that you learn something in that duplicity You learn a picture. Yeah in her mind. It paints a picture. I'm not saying believe what she says I'm just saying that understand that there is a dichotomy between what she says and what she does So there's that there's the how is she dressing how is she speaking how is she and a part of that really is understanding Kind of at least what what tanner talks about and he approaches it from a male perspective and like what You know, if you really didn't care about what anybody thought about you because we always like to say that I don't care, you know, I put on whatever clothes I want what do you dress differently to go to a job interview Do you dress differently to go to a funeral? Do you dress differently to to for different occasions? I think you dress differently to go to church Things like that and say why why do you why is that something where you want to present a different image? And you do something else and he digs into that quite a bit. I that I think he He he brings something very unique to well the sphere in general But I think it's also unique that he is you know involved in the red pill involved in the convention speaking his own company He's also a devout woman. Yeah, like he takes his beliefs very seriously, which I respect four kids We when we were at the three or four, I think it's three things got four now. I don't know I don't want to give you more kids than you. Yeah, if he doesn't yet. He will soon My wife and I hung out with him quite a bit in the off hours and just You know, we talked about a good guy who's family where you brought his wife last year too Yeah, it is and that my wife and his wife went off and did things I think Next up on the list is the red man group star married red pill star ryan stone. Okay, let's talk shit about ryan now Yeah, the charlton heston of the red pill The charlton heston married red pill. Do we really need to introduce ryan ryan? Ryan is he's he's still the admin at married red pill one of them one of the admins at married red pill on the reddit married red pill reddit I think it's married appellate. Yeah, and If you don't know who ryan is and you want to get a bit a deeper understanding of just who ryan is as a person Um, you need to watch the red band group because he's on pretty much everyone that we've had He he presented last year and I I shouldn't give him short shrift here. Um I I think I was I told you about him last year. I said he was good You recommended him for this and again, here's a guy who Uh brings a different aspect You know his own perspective because he's he's not married. He's he's common law married. He's common law married in canada right now And if I would say that there is a red pill definition of marriage. He's got it. He's living it right now And doing it doing it on his terms and it seems to be working out very well for him That's not all that he's about but he is a great guy to talk to about guys who have been awakened well married He's a great guy to talk to if you were going through a divorce Because a lot of the guys who are part of that group were Previous divorce guys or they were in dead bedrooms or their sexless marriages Uh, a really good guy to get if you If you have specific questions as a red pill guy a red pill wear man And you're married or you're even thinking about getting married or maybe you got divorced Or you're in that aspect or that that phase of your life right there. He's a great guy to talk He's very well connected like I saw the other day sent you a bunch of links a bunch of links He's like very well connected with like where to find specific information for that stuff. Yeah, uh, he he will help you out if He can refer lawyers to you and he's he's really good about that kind of stuff Uh, and then he's just a character to begin. Yeah I mean, if you've seen red men group, you already know who Ryan is and you you get his personality. So Uh, before we go any further in the list, I want to announce that hypnotica eric bon cito Is actually disconfirmed to speak at the convention this year So he's well coming back to the event. That's great. Not on the list yet It'll be on the page later today. Welcome to the site Uh, he's very old school like we're talking about before the show started. Yeah, he's he's from uh, the game He's from the mystery method. I think it was on chapter. Maybe rescuing him in And he was yeah, he had a different name in in there. Yeah, he went by something else Yeah, another guy who was very focused on fitness Right in his own life. Yeah, but not during the speech. I don't know. What is what is he gonna talk? What what do you talk about last year? I don't actually I wouldn't I listened to any five minutes of it I I saw I I saw his his speech and From what I can what I can gather. I'm trying gosh It was I saw so many people talking. Um, I always thought it was like he was more about health and fitness kind of guy Uh, no, I mean in his own life, I believe and he does talk about that in scotching. I think It doesn't I I for some reason I recall him Being about direct game Am I am I right to some extent? I think I think he was because I remember Listening to him answering questions when we had the panel afterwards Yeah, that's right. He got into the he got into the discussion about direct game with alan roger curry Yeah, probably yeah, but one thing I remember from the event talking to people listeners talk Was that he was like very strongly well received at the event From everyone so guys who were had, you know, no idea about the red pill who had no idea about pickup Or who were just there from the red pill were there for your work were there for the pickup community stuff Like everybody loved hypnotic. I think he would probably be a good guy to ask about What he sees the differences in and say game from back in the day from back when Oh, yeah, we were talking remember the game was published in what 2005 and so all the stuff that happened in the game Really happened in 2003 to our 2002 2003 till before right there and was you know, then brought into publication Then I would I would ask, you know, what do you I think I'm getting this a good question to ask him is just say what what changes do you think you've seen and he's been coaching since the 90s Yeah, and so yeah, nothing. He's like he's coaching. I think early 90s Would you call him a pick up artist coach? I don't think he would at this point, but he's he's been involved with that community for a long long time So, yeah, he's a coach. He's a coach for men Yeah, put a simple way to put it Next up on the list is a personal one that I brought on to the event Richard granon from Spartan life coach Not a huge fan of life coach term like anyone else in red pill But if anyone does it justice, uh, he does a good job at it He focuses on uh, basically people exiting toxic relationships are currently involved in them Artism cluster beast of bpd. You shouldn't like that He has a youtube channel. It's about 80 90 000 subscribers. It's pretty big And my opinion it's one of the best on youtube for that topic For men and women even uh exiting relationships like that So it was a really good job with that and I think he's going to be A very good very big surprise at the event his speech. We'll see I'm not familiar with him. So, yeah I'll send you his channel and we'll get off. Uh, get down to the show Finally on the list is pat Campbell nice. I'm gonna recommend it. Yeah, and like Was he last minute? I don't know. We did I know you wanted to get him on once you started When I started doing his show, uh, pat is a talk radio host in Tulsa, Oklahoma Uh, working on a I think a larger format at this point. I I know that there's been talk of him getting syndicated Uh, really great guy. Uh, I just sort of came into Working with him over the last Now it's three months. Did he find you or you found him? He found me actually He had like like just like Richard Cooper. He had someone refer my book to him and he uh read it and he's got a couple of sons as well So I think that was really what sort of prompted him to to pick it up and really get into it Epic as fuck kids. Yeah, and oddly enough he has Devoted at least one hour of his show per week to a talk with me. Wow And so that's we've been doing that on Friday mornings hit the last hour of his show, which is, uh, what is it? Seven to nine eastern can you go on there for an hour straight? Yeah, he's got I think he's our three or four hour show every day, but I'm usually the last hour of Friday's show Um, depending on where you are. I usually make a post about that But we talk about uh, usually we talk about current events. Um, sometimes we talk about the book Just depending on what he wants to get into And we do it from a red pill perspective and it's You know become one of the more popular segments on his show and I'm not making any secrets here I would very much love to go and do a show with uh, Tom like us because I know that he is he is retiring this year and so I would very much like to get into doing sort of a regular show in that in that format that that that tom has done and I think pat's really sort of Picked up on the popularity of the red pill as you know Something that people want to discuss and in a bigger format a terrestrial radio format and the other great thing about Pat is he's been he's been on the red man group. We've had him on months before and Great speaker What I love about him is he's a very old school. Yes very old school He reminds me of uh, Jim Flanagan speaker from last year Old school masculinity devout catholic from a long time ago and went to catholic high school. I think grown up all male I had a conversation with him on the phone a few weeks ago And that was the first impression I got like this guy is he knows He's got the gift of speech for sure. I mean if you hear his voice here, you already know that but radio host Yeah radio host was born to be a radio host Yeah, uh, and I think that he is also representative of a demographic of guys right now Who are beginning to understand? Why are we beginning to understand our question? I guess why we're Seeing certain stories. I go. Why are we seeing like that? We talked this morning about this this kid? I don't call my kid this 30 year old guy who just got evicted from his parents. Oh, yeah, they'd assume We're talking about it. So there's one, you know, that's a one facet of I think the kind of social Dysfunction that guys like this see they go why on earth would this guy even still you know, because Like for you and I we understand because this guy's part of this lost boys generation But for a guy like that in that demographic, it's like it seems very strange for why, you know, because I got out of the house When I was 19 I went on you know, like, you know, my parents said here's your bags and you take off You know that kind of old-school shit and so seeing that and explaining to to that demographic to that audience It helps me because I think in a different way when I when I have to do Show prep with him like I'm thinking. Okay if If i'm presenting like some of my ideas in my books to someone who's never heard Of the red pill or has never heard of the man's fear. There's never heard of the rational male How would I explain? You know this situation, how would I explain these high school shooters? You know killing their girlfriend because they got rejected by a girlfriend How would I go ahead and explain that and I've I've been personally doing it for for years now But I have to always kind of look at it with new eyes when I go into a different venue like even just for my own speech for for the 21 convention, I have to approach that from A perspective that people who are going to view that video That's right are never going to you know, maybe they've heard of me Maybe they haven't maybe they want to see what I have to say Maybe they just happened upon whatever was a speaker too. You have to balance that with live audience Who's like very dedicated so there's there's a there's a definite talent in there. I think that When I do that show with pat it's It causes me to sort of break out of my my Thought patterns my routines because I'm trying to Think of what new eyes would think of when I'm trying to explain something So there's that and a year right. He's very much old school and I really like that That aspect about him me too. He I think that we need to have If this is going to be a red pill summit, we need to have guys who Like like who span the the breadth of knowledge, but also I think an age range is important too So if you've got a guy, I would very much like to get a speaker who is you know, 18 19 20 years old And I'd like to get a guy who's 65 years old. It's hard to find speakers Who knows yeah who got their shit together and have to really talk about that kind of thing but maybe Have a younger speaker who Maybe just asking the right questions. I don't necessarily have to have this, you know You know lordly knowledge of whatever it is that they're talking about or maybe they can just relate their experiences I would love To find a guy to find a kid Like 16 17 years old who is in high school who is dealing with the kindness who's read my book and is dealing with What these high school shooters are dealing with they're dealing with what incels are dealing with because you You and I have never had to deal with This kind of stuff when we were we didn't have the internet when I was in high school We had myspace been a facebook yeah, so So what is that guy going through and I think that Even if the guy is young and he's in you know, he's you know Green around the edges or whatever. I think that he would still bring the right questions so that we can Think about it in different ways. That's good. I'm actually gonna keep that in mind going forward Get a younger guy and get an older guy too get a guy who's in his 70s Say what what do you see that's happened here? And because again, I think everybody's I think every man's experience is really what it needs to be about. Well, I'd like about older men too Uh, I mean you're barely 50, but even you you and pat cambell and jim flanagan these guys You remember a time in america when not only the political uh discourse was different But the culture was different the gender relations were different dating was different marriage was different You around you remember life before no fault divorce, right? I was born years after yes, and no when you were a kid Yeah, I would have known it then um I was born in 68 no fault divorce actually was legal in 69 In what california in california at least yeah, I know that I think it took through the 70s a pickup become universal well, and that's that's interesting because I I think i've talked about this with with pat a few times is that um, we have never known A society that hasn't had no fault of course. We have never known a social order that Is prior to the sexual revolution. We've never known a social order We've never known a social order founded on hypergamy that The that hormonal birth control inspired like we've always had the pill we've always had the pill We've always had you know the the repercussions of that pill and I'd like to me that's normal But like when I talked to my my mother-in-law who was you know born way along before that She told me I can remember she told me that uh, how scandalous it was that they had instituted sperm banks And that was like that was they it was shocking and it was and people were protesting and it was just crazy And now we don't think twice about it. We think how a woman can go and do whatever she wants now and back then sperm bank was There to facilitate Babies between an already married couple. That's what they build it as now It's so women who want to stay single there, you know deliberately intentionally be single mothers Can do that now now is there help for infertile couples? Sure there is but it is seen more now As what they were afraid it was going to be seen as Back when they first instituted reminds me you tweeted the other day Maybe two three days ago the the Boy Scouts are giving on condoms now, right? It's like 50 years ago. That would have been fucking unheard of not only unheard of it would have been Unthinkable, right? And why are they doing why now? Why are we saying it's not even the Boy Scouts anymore? It's not it's the Scouts. They don't even call Boy anymore. And that's we Remove the man move the man Do we have any I look like like we got a super chat. We got a whole bunch of shit going on All right. All right. Let's answer some questions now. We got we got business done. Yeah So guys with questions, I think you guys have been asking them throughout the chat It's impossible to keep up with the shit ton of them. So if you ask questions now through the chat, I'm going to see them a lot faster Fire down and what about super chat? Is that a question? Yeah, I can just I can pull them up He said speaking of older speaker is the private man was a great loss, right? Yeah, and that's why do we dedicated that last year's Show of the 10th anniversary to him. We had been we made that public right the yeah the video Yeah, this came out recently when uh on his death anniversary. Yeah, you and I and goldman and socrates And his his girlfriend Tracy was there as well. Yeah, I think she'll be there again this year too Did I get Carl uh black baby logic? No, we did not working on kidnapping them I want him to be there like yeah, just because and I we should have probably already explained this too Is that just because they're not speaking doesn't mean that they might not be there That's right. I know christian is going to be there. Yeah christian McQueen will be there He won't be speaking but he will be doing and probably running a seminar and probably running something else And that's the other thing we should probably make clear is that the the The speaking aspect of it is the most important part, of course But there's lots of other things that go on at the convention The way I see it the speaking is like central So it's the reason we're getting together It's the reason we're filming it but the the surrounding elements are even more important. I think right at least in terms of Engagement interaction. Well, I was gonna say is I you know, I'd give you my we we did some post post speaking What videos or podcasts afterwards? Oh, yeah But but when I was talking in those I I really wanted to stress that there's a lot more going on I mean the main event of course is the speaking but There's a lot more going on behind the scenes that are there The after hours things that are going on. I know that I'm pretty sure he'll do it again, but I know that Christian was running He had he had clients there. He had friends that he was going out and clubbing clubbing with and and doing his You know for lack of a better word his pickup artists stuff And doing doing what what Christian McQueen does and then Goldman was there as well You know and there you get access to guys that you people always say, who would you want to share a beer with? You know, I want to roll. Oh, I want to do it with you know, christian This is your chance to go share a beer with them and and pick their brains I think that I did more speaking Outside of the outside of the the convention hall every time I saw you were formed by you know half a dozen dudes Yeah, and and so it's it's also It's also an opportunity to talk to guys that you know in the flesh And you know sort of pick their brains about your own particular You know your own personal situation as opposed to getting some Generalized knowledge, which is what I probably will give you otherwise. Yeah So there's a lot more going on and I think we're I think we'd like to do some Add some more activities to it. I think oh, yeah Yeah, I've had a lot of suggestions from uh, Richard Cooper and other speakers for more workshops more programs stuff like that And at some point we might do that maybe this year Yeah, I might and I yeah, that's probably something we should discuss off air But I think that like there should really be some Yeah, like some workshops like like some other Intenses where like if you want to you know focus on one part or one aspect if you want folks on game if you want to focus on You know you're Getting out of a dead bed very much down do it for me It's just the thing of a quality the event is like super high quality and professional And I want to make sure everything we do is like that's another thing we need to talk about too The event venue this year has changed. Yeah, that's right. Where someplace else. It's not where it was last year Yep And it is a bigger venue. We're accepting more people this year. Yeah, yeah, I haven't capped yet But I'll probably cap at a 200 and as of yet we've sold a lot of tickets a couple dozen And those have come in a lot faster than I thought. Yeah, I will like I said, I've been in floor I've been driving around and just sort of had my my life in a peevill for the last week and a half When I get back to Reno, which will be Friday. I'll be publishing a post about the convention and where you can get tickets and If you want to have questions or if you'd like to even just look up what I was talking about last year I'll have links to that too. So my my official post for it will be by this weekend. Cool Yeah, we're actually going to publish your second talk in the convention soon. Yeah, if he previews up the q&a thing Yep. Yeah, that one was really good. I like that That talk because it was more in sort of a q&a fashion. It was a little bit more I want to I want to give I want to give people, you know, what You know, what it is that they want to hear if they wanted Yeah, I don't want to just talk about something and then they go. Oh, he didn't talk about hyper gonna hear Oh, he didn't talk about this. I I want to be you're definitely gonna talk about I want to be I want to be able to give people what they want when it comes to you know me speaking because you're I mean I understand for all for some guys. It's a lot of money When I when I do counseling whenever I have guys that hit me up and say hey, I want to work with you or whatever You know, can we can we start something my? My format is always sort of pay what you can I don't do I don't do like oh, here's my hourly for for whatever I say, you know what if you can pay me x amount fine If you can only pay me this that's fine because what I figure and the way I've always thought of this is that you pay it forward for the next guy So if you're paying me $200 and the guy the next guy that comes along he can only pay me $25 You balance it out and you're helping out your fellow man by doing that by by paying it forward and then you know You make it keeps me honest keeps them honest And it also makes it so that I can tell people what I think they need to hear instead of what you know Oh, I better tell them what he wants to hear to keep them keep them on the hook. I'm never gonna do that I'm gonna tell you me if you leave me and you say screw it. Fuck this coming out Okay, but I told you what I think you need to hear. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna pander you Well, it reminds me of the convention to the paying it forward thing because the ticket price is expensive Yeah, it is depending on who you're talking to but most people find a thousand dollars minimum That's a really bird and then you got to pay flight out here You're gonna play tell your hotel and everything else. So it has to be really really worth it You know worth your while and I think but it also supports the the mission of the company in terms of free to the world These videos go out your videos about to hit 100,000 views any day, right? And that's 100,000 men 98% men and within a year or two. It'll be 200,000 300,000 400,000 500,000 And that's you know, eventually millions of that is more conversation That's more conversation that's happening now. You know when I go and you know flip through the comments It's like, you know, there's you're always gonna have trolls But I think that it's going with that many people seeing You know the and I'm not just my own video, but like Richard Cooper or whatever else They're seeing these videos and it's sparking conversations Even if it's even if it's a private conversation between two guys or people who are on the on that In twitter or in the comment threads that kind of stuff And that's what's important to me. And that's why I always say that, you know I understand that it's it it's not as expensive as a lot of other You know places I I could name, but I'm not going to um, but I get that and I want to give as much value as I possibly can and you do that's always been my Mission you did an excellent example in my opinion. I don't know if I told you this but as a speaker You on Roger Curry and you know many others at the event you actually stayed at the entire event You were there from like start to finish You saw probably what 90% of the talks at least yeah all the ones that I could see I saw And you were very interactive with the attendees, which I don't you know a mandate Most of the people that I missed at the that the convention they're speaking was because I was out in the hall talking But I love that and the attendees love it too But I was saying though the ticket those in a way, you know your ticket when you come to the convention It's an investment in yourself it's improving your life. It could be a trip vacation However, you want to spend it But you're also supporting education through videos of millions of men and it's a lot of fun You're meeting guys here. Yeah one of the one of the most frequent questions. I'm asked is like, okay. I've read your book How do I go forward with this? How do I do something with this? I wish there was a like-minded group of guys that I could get together and we could talk about this kind of stuff What's the good version the bad version is like, why don't you tell me what to do role? Yeah, yeah, that's the good And then the other people say how can we don't have a 12 step thing for me to follow so that I can have a perfect life I don't want to think just tell me what I don't know But I'm happy to say that if you if you really want that organization It's it's at this convention. It's you're gonna meet guys there. I had I met guys from I believe it was phoenix or phoenix arizona Who are talking about creating a rash quote-unquote rational male? Like a group of guys. I know a guy who did it in St. Louis. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And then the guy, yeah Um, and so they you know, they take it upon themselves and that's why I wrote the book That's why I want you to have the print copy of it so you can get together and go do things with dudes Uh, Richard and I are Richard Cooper and I are talking about doing something Sort of an entrepreneurs type thing and that's that's one thing that I would like to do with him I also want to like like said when we started this I'm I'm planning on doing a forum of guys so that there's sort of a You know interactive discussion on different topics because if I'm writing something on the blog It might not be something that is specific to that guy Right and they don't want to go back to something I wrote in 2012 and then try to get you know a comment thing going You know from then and so I'm going to start sort of a very Understated forum and see where it goes from there. That's one thing I want to do and then I'm always encouraging guys maybe once you Once you read my stuff and if it's if it's changed your life It's done something pass it on and have that discussion and if you if you Put together a group make sure that you do something with that group Like if get a bunch of guys who like to go fishing get a bunch of guys who like to go shooting to shooting range Get a bunch of guys who like snowmobiles that are we're going we're going shark fishing Because men or women talk and men do and the way that men communicate is they have to be doing something And I there's a lot of people I would like to teach that lesson to is that men need a project Men need purpose to to do something so that they can communicate whereas women women communicate like this men communicate like this Let me talk out and we're watching we're watching the game where I went We talk like that. That's how that's how men communicate and that that's a real It's kind of funny, but I mean it's it's just the the dynamics and communication between men and women and I think that one of the reason that Men's groups fail is because they're men's groups Because they're like the whole express purpose of the guys getting together is just to go We're gonna talk about our feelings. Yeah, if I club style No, don't do that go fishing go do something that you all enjoy. I mean build a car What that brings to mind though is it's either that or when they infiltrate the group Yes, yes, and then then you're talking about like married man sex life And you're talking about like groups that started out with the right purpose and then became they were male spaces that got infiltrated Something I'm very on guard for we got anything. Yeah, we have a number of questions Here's a specific one from Tobias Engel Rolo, do you believe an LTR is in itself a healthy goal? A healthy goal. Um, it depends Is it a healthy goal? It depends on where you are in life depends on who that that woman is that you're having an LTR with I think that in the Long term. Yeah, I could it could be a healthy goal It again, it depends on the guy and what that guy wants for his life I think that Just even asking that question. What do you want for your life? Do you want to have a long-term relationship? Or do you not want to? What I think is ironic about that is that we we don't ask women that we don't say, oh, you know, why don't you You know What do you want? Is it a healthy goal for a woman to have a long-term relationship because when a when a woman gets to be 35 years old and She's unmarried and she has no kids and she's wondering where all the good guys are and what happened to all of them And she's looking back on the decisions that she made in her life Well, we excuse that away and we say hey, you know, she was focusing on her career She just wasn't ready for that yet or she was trying to have it all She's getting a phd and yeah, exactly. So we we don't put that question to women so much because we We think of women in terms of like their Professionality or we want to we want to we want to give them the benefit of the doubt where we don't want to give Men the benefit of the doubt at least that's how it's changed I mean remember it wasn't like that before if a woman Did not have a husband and some babies by the time she was like 24 25 years old back in the day It was it was really weird and it was also really weird for guys Not too as well because it usually meant either the guy was gay or something wrong with a guy And marriage back then and back in the old social contract was something that Made a man a man, you know, if you you're a husband and a father and you know, you go to work 9 to 5 And you come home and you do your job and you you know, it was that sort of nuclear family idea And that shit is gone now, but those old stigmas still stick with us Is it a healthy goal for a man to have an ltr? Yes, if it's a healthy ltr If it's something that that guy wants if it's something that is on his terms If it is something where his frame is the one that is the dominant frame in that relationship Well as advanced the question something all add in here What do you think about this question that he'd asked with with relation to case selection and our selection? So gene theory, uh, well, uh, we have you know that In some ways, I think r and k Selection theory apply to men and women in other ways. I think that it's kind of overblown or maybe it's maybe it's a little bit Do you have a post on your reductionist? I do but only in like not not with r and k specifically Remember r and k selection is really from biology, you know textbooks. It's it's out of uh It's meant to describe the mating strategies of different really different mammals The mating strategy of a rabbit is to have as many babies as possible and not worry about investing so much in those young and let them go off because they're going to get eaten by hawks or whatever whereas you know human beings have to Focus on raising a child from infancy to at least, you know self-sufficiency of some sort And you're talking about two different Two different selections A lot of people like to make the the idea, you know turn it out as if You know women don't need men anymore for that parental investment responsibility anymore So that I think is it really is I think that men definitely are not superfluous And I think that fathers are absolutely necessary in the raising process But if we're going to accept that then we can't really accept the I'm going to say it's the k I'm pretty sure it's the k theory that That women aren't interested in that anymore Because the are I might be getting these mixed up the r selection theory is that you know women What or men have the r selection? It's like they we want to spread our seat as quick as we can we want to have sex with as many Unlimited access to unlimited sexuality is the masculine imperative for the male sexual biological imperative Uh, and there's always going to be that pay or it's going to be that trade off for that compromise because for women It take if a woman gets pregnant. I mean the then she has to invest a lot into that So that sexual strategy that women have which is hypergamy has been evolved over the years because of a different Evolved dynamic because hypergamy remember hypergamy came around long before The sexual revolution and hormonal birth control So now we have taken away the beta buck side of hypergamy. So what's left how fucks is the only thing that's left? So What does that do? Well, it means men have to focus more on their appearance. It means they have to be more Arousing they oh they have to uh god forbid they they don't get a woman who is an enthusiastic You know enthusiastically consented to have sex with them anymore And I think it's interesting that we're having a conversation now between Transactional sex and validational sex in an era that well this that I do have a post about that was prompted by the enthusiastic Consent laws that are going on right now someone said rollatumasi deserves the Nobel Prize. I think so It's a toss up Well, that depends on a Nobel Prize in what in literature and science gender relations. I I think that there's some truth to that I think that I I really a lot of the stuff that I talk about isn't necessarily something that you couldn't find in evolutionary Psychology, it's not something you couldn't find in evo bio even I mean, it's just that I connect the dots that people are unwilling to connect the dots to So recently and I I'm going to go and throw this out there as a as a recommend book recommendation But uh, everybody knows that one of my favorite Evo psych, you know researchers is marty hassleton and she's got a great book out called hormonal right now Where she goes into the specifics of pretty much what I went into in my first talk at last year's convention Which is her to me, you know micro to macro And what I'm doing really is I'm taking a lot of the stuff that she is saying and I'm applying it to Game fundamentals. I'm applying it to I'm just basically crossing The divide that she's unwilling to cross. She doesn't want to make those connections by saying, you know, hey maybe one of the reasons that we have a Feminine primary social order right now is because we've been focusing so damn much on hypergamy and making sure that women's hypergamy is optimized In every possible conceivable way that we can make it right now She's not going to make that connection. I'll make that connection. It's unflattering if Yeah, and of course, and yeah, why because it's unflattering to women and that's one of the reasons why I have a real problem With red pill women who say that they're I just got banned from the subreddit the other day Yeah, well welcome to the club. I got banned for a long time And I'm and my stuff is in the uh, is my stuff is still in the the sideboard for for for the red pill But I'm banned from the red pill women. You're banned from a woman, but didn't you do a An emma on there that you do a question and answer on rep a woman or no I don't think I ever did but I have I have been known to go and post like repost Blog posts that I have there because I think that they are pertinent to the conversation there And of course they don't want to hear that because red pill women only take the parts of the red pill That they find flattering to themselves And then they think anything else is just those red pill guys being misogynist. Yeah, that's why I got banned There's like one comment instant bend. I was like, well, fuck this place So so they're happy like if I go and I say I say well, you know brain scans show that women's Neurological wiring uh predisposes them to better communication. I say, you know, they're they're better at sub communication They're better at talking when we're just talking about each other if I'm looking at you I'm communicating women get together just to talk right men don't because we don't have that kind of wiring We don't have that mental firmware as our predisposition if I say that women go. Yeah. Yeah, that's right All women are like that right now. They're happy to say that and I say well Women are all women are hypergamous and they're into alpha flax and beta bucks And here's here's why they're duplicitous in x y and z and I say that and I showed them I can here's the brain scans to show why or here's the research to show to empirically prove why That's when they have a problem like that. So if it's flattering to the feminine They're happy to accept it if they're not if it's not then they're like not only more Well some speculation on my part you're uncovering the parts that they don't want uncovered those of the dualistic Well, yeah, and then I should say this because a lot of girls think a lot of women think that I'm I'm unfair to them when it comes to that I'm I run men up the flying pole just as much Oh, yeah, uh, I especially when it comes to where we're just talking about in cells not too long ago Yeah, I mean I I talk about some of our old speakers even just look at the red pill in your work And it just triggers a shit out of them. Yeah, of course Yeah, the purple pill guys who you know life coach purple guys follow along in that same pattern that women do they They take whatever is flattering for women from the red pill and use that in their coaching And then they anything that is not flattering or anything that would lead to Any of their clients? You know leaving them they they disregard that and they say well, that's massage They're just bitter burn guys, you know, and it's easy to fall back on that because women wanted to hear that Yeah, we guys a bunch of super chats Thanks for the super chats guys not a question but comment from the super chat The rational male made it clear to me why the game with a blue pill mindset is a recipe for depression or even suicide The price tag for the convention Attracts the men who want to get real about this. I think you're right and I appreciate the super chat I should say so uh that I'll He I don't I won't name names, but uh just sort of a cold bucket of truth for me from last year's Convention was I it was actually the guys that I was on the flight from from phoenix with It was funny because I was there and I was talking to my wife and she was referring to me as rollo And so the guys who are in front of me were Hey, we're going to this convention, you know, I'm just kind of beating around the bush with me Trying to see if that I'm wrong One of the guys who was there was a commenter on my blog and He was one of these guys who was married And just gave up hope and had no idea because he was still stuck in this his blue pill paradigm I was simply giving up hope on on you know living an The kind of life like the idealized life that the blue pill had in blue pill conditioning had led him to believe It was never going to be possible for him He was staring down at you know divorce He had actually made plans to kill himself He set a date to kill him and this is what he told me, you know, because he looked me straight in the eyes I came to this so that I could look you straight in the eye and tell you You know, thank you for saving my life because I had set a date for it I wanted to make sure that no one was inconvenienced. I wanted to make sure that You know that all my life insurance was set up. I wanted to make it look like an accident So it didn't look like it was suicide and that you know, and And actually he was really describing to me about how he wanted to turn himself into a statistic because he had no understanding of what He was going through. He had no understanding about the blue pill and being cut away from that. Well, it's interesting I was all processed. That was very logical and deductive I'm gonna do this And I got into it recently in one of my posts about male suicide and why it's five times the You know the the average general of women and Men are very practical when it comes to suicide. They like like I said, this guy is one example of many I know guys who have Told me that they wanted to kill themselves in such a way as to make it look like an accident so that their Kids would be set up. You know, they didn't want to inconvenience them From guys doing that to guys who were putting down, you know a blanket on the hardwood floor So they wouldn't get blood all over the place when they shot themselves This is the kind of stuff that I'm dealing with day after day And you know, I I would say probably during a week. I'm I'm probably good for at least four or five guys You know telling me, you know, thank you for saving my life and and that's really what I I mean if I had a mission statement if I had a point of what I wanted to do I mean everybody knows the story about my uh My my brother in law who killed himself. It was really sort of if I had a red pill moment That sort of woke me up to what I needed to do and right wise that was it If I can prevent that if I can help stop something like that And if I can do it in such a way that you know opens guys eyes because I really wish I would have been able to I mean in hindsight, I probably could have told my Brother-in-law everything that I know right now I don't think he would have very accepted it because it was too far gone and it blew pill conditioning But if I can reach those guys before they get to that point 10 years before it Yeah, and say look you can live a better life And I've got so many guys right now. They're just they're just saying hey man Just because of this chapter or these two chapters or what you said here that opened my eyes up to other things in my life And I started living differently and it's not because I turned them into pickup artists Yeah, I taught them game or something. I said the reason your wife does x y and z is because of a b and c And they go oh my god, and they so they change their behavior and they do it on their own That's why I say I'm I'm prescriptive. I'm not I'm descriptive. I'm not prescriptive And so it's my Opinion that guys need to take what I write and really not just whatever But what other people write and in the ministry of speakers as well And take that and apply it to their own situations because every guy is unique and every guy has his own individualized Experience just in the same way that I want to hear what your experience is so that I can put it to the aggregate of the red pill You have to understand that your individuality is Your situation is unique to yourself and you are the only one who knows what that is So I can go and talk to a guy who's 70 years old and say I think you should do x y and z But I'm only giving him my suggestions because I'm not 70. I haven't lived through any of that. I've never been divorced I've never done what you're giving them tools basically. Yeah, so I'm yeah, exactly So what I do is I give tools and I let guys save their own lives Like I've already said I'm not in the business of making better men. I'm in the business of Men making themselves better men and giving them the tools to help them do that and It seems to be bearing fruit. Oh, yeah I'm glad We'll need to wrap up soon But we got a super chat from wake and bind and his question after that Rolo, how do you advise your teenage daughter on red pill truth? Oh, there we go. Yeah, you guys are gonna ask me that Right before I had to leave but I apologize. I was in Alabama in the middle of a race They were driving now. I was like, I think it's time to go. I was amazed you even hop on the on the show. Yeah Yeah, I like driving in hindsight. I probably shouldn't have done that, but um, I wanted to just I was sort of Yeah, I thought it was cool. Um, so what do I do? What was the question here? I was like, what do I do with my How do you advise your teenage daughter on red pill truth? Uh, how do I advise her now like you mean directly advise her because I look at where my daughter is in life right now being 20 years old and The decisions that she makes and the people that she interacts with and the the young men that she interacts with right now I see that as a direct result of being a red pill parent from for most of her life Really all of her life And setting that example for her. I get into this in positive masculinity and in the parenting side of it Which by the way also astonished me because That ended up being like the number For a while. It was the number one selling book on parenting or fatherhood or something like that back in august That's awesome. And then uh, it was number one on parenting sons for eight weeks after that. So it was really that was again flattering, but um So it wasn't so it wasn't just a fluke. It was just you know, it wasn't just the algorithms It was it was uh, well, it sounds to me like what you're saying is children male or female They watch what you do not what you say. Yes, and and I think that If you have a daughter and you're a red pill guy molding the image of Molding the image of masculinity for them. You're going to be doing that anyways. So you might as well be doing it from a perspective of You know insisting on your own frame or being a positively masculine guy who is decisive who makes decisions Who isn't deferring to mommy all the time who isn't uh, who isn't deferring to the feminine Who's you know still takes care of a shit but I think it's it's a very important one of the and I wrote about this in the in positive masculinity. I think that guys need to understand that Women are the ones that are going to be modeling feminine Gender roles or feminine the the model of femininity is going to be set by the woman and the model for masculinity Is going to be set by the man that can be a blessing or a curse So if you're a weak beta male father, you're going to be setting that as the the example and so stereotypically a More domineering dominant mother figure who's making the decisions and calling the shots and is the one that The daughter defers to for authority. It's not going to be daddy. It's going to be mommy What is that what is that woman going to when that daughter becomes a woman? What is she going to Be or what is she going to expect from men when she gets to be you know of age? Well, she saw that as an example too if how to be a woman Yeah, and so and exactly which is an inverted dominant therapy And that's one of the reasons I have a problem with single parents is that especially for women because remember 42 percent of Births today are born out of wedlock. They are single and most of them are single mother households and what that means is that that mother has to Be the role model or the gender role model for masculinity and femininity and that's why we praise single mothers right now because Well, we're not going to praise anything. That's that's that's masculine right now We just simply can't go that far masculinity is toxic right now. I mean, haven't you heard? But I think that the fact that a woman would have would be a single mother and presume that she could Model a masculine role better than the father I think that is like the height of women's hubris right now to think that they could do that to think that that a A man's influence in that kid's life is superfluous And what I mean by that is we we talk about we talk a really good game about fatherhood these days and Father's father's day is coming up pretty soon. So I think it's interesting to sort of be a little bit more Mindful of what's going on around you and how we think about fathers because this is the occasion for it, right? And so when When we have a mother who is who thinks she can do it all she's modeling the masculine and she's modeling the feminine And she's basically what she's saying the message that she's she's putting out there is that I am I'm everything I can be the man and I can be the woman and we would never Ever think that a man could be a mother for For sure because men are you know for masculinity right now is at the very best masculinity is ridiculous It's never seen in a positive light. It has always seen as either toxic or it is ridiculous until there's a problem until there's a problem Right, and so yeah exactly. So we we always think of fathers as being superfluous that they're nice to have around But they're not really necessary all that necessary now That's in spite of all this research that says men are very much necessary I'm reading a book now by dr. Warren ferrell and the guy from Men are from mars forget that guy. I'm not I'm not a fan of either of these guys But I am a fan of the research that they do because the statistics of the boy crisis right now is just I would that's another book. I would definitely put out as a recommendation right now but We we think of fathers as being superfluous when in fact they are very much necessary But we still as a our social consciousness and popular consciousness We think of fathers as just being if they're they're great if they're not oh well until A kid acts out until as statistically proven The the kids are more likely to be criminals the kids Of single mothers are more likely to be delinquent more likely to have sex earlier more likely to have unplanned pregnancies I mean, that's why I said read the um read the the boy crisis because I'm Basically quoting stats from that book right now even uh and culture as a whole thing on this Yeah, known for criticizing this and you look at yeah And so a man is superfluous until the kid is a criminal and then what what's the conversation then it's where's this kid's father? You know and then they want to blame because men are great for having as scapegoats But they're superfluous in any other Context, you know, I'm curious to see what you think about this the way it's looking now toxic masculinity has now become all masculinity is toxic We've seen a transformation that I made I made that Prediction back when we actually when we did the first one remember when we had the uh Las Vegas shooting that happened when we were at the convention And right after that was all of these articles started showing up and saying that it's no longer toxic masculinity It's masculinity itself is toxic and it needs to be obliterated Well, here's what I'm wondering In the coming years it looks like the culture set up to not only hate masculinity to that extent that's universal How much longer till fatherhood is hated universally? Yeah, because right now it's seen as superfluous It's just all you are is uh, and well, I mean as soon as they can find some way to Reproduce without you know if I you know it's when I got accused this morning on pat Campbell show of Wanting to have steppford wives, you know like us red pill guys. We just want to have steppford wise We want to have these perfect little, you know sex robots, which is ironic considering the fact that we're working on sex robots right now Why because we want to avoid these you know incel incidents and you know one wants to go to prison Yeah, I know we want to go to prison You know and so I'm going to get called that but in this in the same token we want to You know we want to end men we want to make men obsolete In fact, I can point you to articles that are titled the end of men and our men obsolete Because there is such a Belief that from a feminine side that that that you know from a feminine primary social order is preferable to anything else And to you know and completely ignoring the fact that the reason that we're here in the society We're in today is because men have built that society and men have put it together We have facilitated The ability for women to complain about men is what we've done in a country built by men Yeah, exactly Last question then we'll wrap up. Okay, you know head over to cocoa beach Uh, this is from motive super chat. Thank you for the super chat Question is do either of you think that the anger from breaking away from the blue pill Can be parlayed into effective game? Think like a bironic trait I don't know what he means by that last part. Can it be can the anger by of Breaking away from the blue pill be turned into more effective my opinion is you use it to incentivize you Yeah, sure. You can use it. You can yeah the anger well Let's say it. Let's put it this way if you and I'm I don't think that I am Alone in this but like whenever I've gone through a breakup, you know, I've been that much more Motivated in the gym. I mean you use that anger to to motivate. I was out begging a porn star after my divorce Yeah, exactly. It'll motivate you to get into something else because I I also should clarify this too because a lot of guys Like when we're more I think we're maybe we're talking about two different things because When guys break away from the blue pill, maybe it's not so much because of a breakup. It might be I said, that's most commonly That's why that was my first my first thought but really what they're what men tend to be angry at is themselves and not at women And that gets misconstrued constantly in the in the in the the atmosphere because Women want to see that anger. They want to see like an Elliott Rogers. They want to see this guy What's his name a like men in Asia and whatever they want to see that in other guys They want to see that anger and that craziness in them because they want to be able to associate that with the red pill And they want to associate that with the hemisphere and those they don't even know they don't know well It's to call it. So they say although Sam Araya guys Yeah, they call it Sam Aray's but at the same time women are attracted to dark trap personality traits aggression All kinds of things dominance. That's one of the reasons that when guys break up with their wives They suddenly their wives suddenly take interest in them again because they're standing up for themselves And they've you know, they've said, you know, fuck it. I'm I'm I got nothing to lose And so they they do things that they never would have done They do things that they never would have done while they were married and suddenly that that is what is very attractive About them. I think that Cutting yourself away from the from the blue pill There's always going to be anger because that's going to be a phase but what women or what female and feminized critics don't Really understand don't really relate with is that the anger is not directed at women It is directed at the guy himself It is the guy wanting to get back that time that he lost It's a guy think of it this way. You got a guy who's 20 Let's just say second example. You got a guy who's 28 years old and suddenly he goes red pill and for the last 10 years let's say since he was yeah, since he was 18. He's been making all of these decisions based on this blue pill, you know ideological You know, Disney Bullshit that he's believed for so very long and he's actually suffered the consequences of that. Maybe, you know He's gone through a bad a divorce. Maybe he's gone through You know god knows whatever he's gone through, you know personal personal issues and then Even the trauma of seeing your brother wake him up You wake him up as a red pill guy and you say, sorry, dude. You've been living your life wrong for the last 10 years And let me show you all of the reasons why And that guy's not angry at the women because women are just going to do what they're going to do because that you're just basically saying Here's why here's why women did what here's why she did what she did And here's why your ideas when it comes to your blue pill conditioning is wrong And the guy goes, oh my god, you're right, you know, and they they realize this and then they get pissed off And I'm not saying it's always directed at women, but usually is directed at men It's usually directed at themselves because they go, why didn't I see this sooner? I can't believe I wasted 10 years of my life with this. I feel like I just wasted all my 20s By doing all this and the prime of my life is now gone because I believed in this bullshit And yeah, I would be very very very Well, if they read the rational male, they'll learn the prime of their life is in the 30s That is why I wrote preventive medicine. So guys could, you know, I had so many guys hit me up and say, you know I wish I had this sooner. I wish I would have known this one, you know, before I got married I wish I would have known this before I made these decisions That's why preventive medicine is there to help you make those decisions Put the anger to a lot of it is self-directed to be mad at yourself for getting lied to But a lot of it I feel too guys get mad and to some degree just to file these so at the culture that lied to them For so long and so consistently. Yeah, and that too and then, you know The book was a lie to be upset. Yeah to be upset with them to be you know to to realize your Your role in what you've been raised into and your friends and your brothers and cousins If there's a if there's a silver lining to that it is that at least now you're away from that at least now You know better and you've got no other you've got no excuses from here on out And you at least were thoughtful and insightful and introspective enough to To listen to what people told you about the red pill and what you know to become red pill Where to understand the nature of women to understand intersexual dynamics to understand the natures of men too In all that I don't want to go. I can't just point, you know one finger here. I think it goes red pills goes across a lot of different arenas, but Yeah, I mean you're going to be pissed off. You're going to be pissed off at the the society that is is dependent upon that is dependent on you staying, you know, like I think one of the This reminds me of one of my most controversial post was called betas and waiting And the reason that it was controversial is because I followed guys I followed boys from five years old being taught All of these disney, you know differences to to girls and to you know to let the warrior princess, you know Shine through and to see you know, like through you know One of the reasons Jordan Peterson has problem frozen is because it is just this complete abomination when it comes to gender roles It if there there's never been a more Insidious purveyor of the blue pill than disney. I mean disney every single movie is the same Narrative it is the same message and I think that complicitness is what pisses guys off So widespread in that in that post what I do is I follow guys like from from age five all the way up to say like When they're about 29 to 30 because that's what I usually call the epiphany phase for women So the this blue pill conditioning keeps you ignorant to all of this all of the the things that You know the game that's being played around you. Well, you're not really the sandberg. I'm playing the sandberg game plan The hyper hyper that's what if I was going to say there's a matrix. That's what it's it's you being a part of that that I'll call it a plan but being part of that scheme or being part of the The path that they will have you be because there's a vested interest for women and the feminine imperative to keep you as ignorant Almost like a cow on a slaughtering line Until you get right up until you're about 28 to 30 years old And then suddenly, you know, women need you to be the nice dependent loyal guy after she's done with their party And I wrote about this in preventive medicine. You see on tender all the time But what they're these guys are betas and waiting they wait into their turn They wait and they're they do whatever the old social contract is told them to do It makes them, you know, they they think that their ship has come in by the time the woman is in our epiphany phase They say I really want to get right with god and I really want to uh, you know, I'm done with bad boys I've learned my lesson. I want to really hate guys that lie. Yeah, I you know, I was so crazy in my college days I was such a different person back then and you know, basically all the stuff that's that they're trying to self excuse You know, they're they're past lives or the past decisions that they've made and Conveniently that happens right about the time when they need men the most and they need those guys Those nice guys those blue pill conditioned guys to still be nice to still that's one of the reasons Why women right now at 35 gets so upset because they say Where are the nice guys? How can I'm 35? I can't find any nice guys. Well, that's because first of all, you waited too long And then second of all um The guys who are there are becoming more and more aware of their role and are Unplugging whether it's by me or it's by just, you know, open hypergamy or whatever the Observation is doing it just by observation right now And so these betas and waiting who are supposed to be there for them aren't there anymore Yep And so that they so what do we do? We have to shame them. We have to say they're kittles So they didn't plan their lives according to the the plan because the plan was to be there for me Because you're a beta and you're in waiting to exactly what we get so much hate too We're stopping that process. Yeah, we're a threat because we are making men aware of their Their sexual value their sexual market value Like if I'm if I'm going to say look Don't if I'm telling guys don't worry about being monogamous in your 20s Because you will have a better A better prospect for sexual selection When you get to be your 30s when you get into when you have establish yourself because it takes longer for men to establish themselves To establish yourself in your work Just maturity wise You still you still look good. Maybe you don't look as good as you did when you were 25 as you do when you're 35 Okay, but if you keep if you you know handle your shit You're still there Men when they get older still look really good even up into their 50s and 60s and 70s I mean fine women often like older men anyway Yeah, that's seven ten and well, there's a five to seven year gap that meant women find attractive They're always looking for a guy who's uh, they're senior They're not looking for one who is that who is their junior unless they are divorced and they're looking to Rekindle that old coup or they have other psychological issues going on with dominance So when I tell guys something like that and I say look, you know hold out until you get to be 34 35 36 years When you get into what I say is your is your sexual market value peak It upsets it upsets that plan and it becomes a threat because it's making guys aware It's that's why I always say, you know, why do my eyes hurt? Well, because you've never used them before Well, when I'm opening guys eyes To what's going on around? That's why we use that's why we use the matrix analogy if i'm not mistaken I think it was ed latimore first said that your work is like teaching slaves how to read In fact, I've even got I've even got a post about that too. I thought that was great when I saw that I was like, holy It's teaching slaves how to read and that's why I also wrote Betas and waiting because I want guys to know that this is the order This is what they have planned for you And don't play a party to that because you need to be the one who is making your selections and making informed decisions for yourself At the best time of your life where you have the most sexual selection And that is usually between 34 and 36 years old You can make a better selection because that is the time at which women are their most necessitous They're at their most necessitous right around 29 to 31 years old, which is what I call the epiphany phase So that is why I say Hold out and and hold up. I'm not saying. Oh, well, you know monogamy is horrible Is there anything good about an ltr? Well, we can talk about that But let's get to the point where you have to establish yourself and put yourself together as best you possibly can because you're hitting your Stride when you get to your you know 34 35 percent It's always fun of funny to these guys ask these questions about ltrs and stuff. You've been in one for 20 something years so Some context. Yeah, I mean it's I I take all this shit for for being controversial and saying, you know look You know, maybe Maybe your your vulnerability and your rapport and your comfort and all of this stuff that you've been told for so long Is what women really want and they want this security and they want this beta buck side of hypergamy to they want to vomit I love it. Well, well when I say that and and women get upset about that because I'm saying I'm basically saying don't be this don't don't worry about this because you know I I I firmly believe that polarity is the Key to is a healthy relationship. You need to maintain your identity in a relationship. You need to be Anthony johnson in in the relationship and not just A husband or whatever you need to have your own specific identity because that is the person that your wife is going to respect That is the person that your wife is going to admire and you need that admiration Yeah, I remember actually hunter drew, uh, you know the family alpha the convention last year hit on that right off the bat in the stock Yeah, and it's very explicit and so and so you need you need to be able to instill passive dread You need to be able to instill urgency You need to if you wonder why your wife is not into having sex with you It's because you don't instill that Sense of urgency in her anymore because you've been far too dependent on making her comfortable and yes, dear and honey Do lists and all this other shit the wrong side of it for me and and so I say something like this And I'm this misogynistic asshole, or I don't know what I'm talking about but yet I'm I'm relating this to women who've been You know on their second divorce right and I've been married for 22 years. I've got a You know whip smart 20 year old, you know daughter. I've I've done it I've I've had a red pill marriage and I've had a successful red pill relationship with my wife for 22 years We're still together. I still have great sex with her. I still want to go home right now and go knock it out with her I mean you met my wife, you know, she looks like she stays on her toes It's not like I go you better stay on your toes. She's sharp She does it on her own because we have this understanding. She knows that she's in my frame She's always been in my friend because of my job because of what I do for a living. Yes, okay but also because that is the Who's that the unspoken understanding that we have between us and I know how to How to play on passive dread. It's not like I go home. You're better. I don't give it ultimatums I never do. I don't say you better shape up or I'm gonna go and knock it out with somebody else I never I've never had to yeah because whenever Whenever a woman has flirted with me, you know, it's a married guy. I just kind of go with it and she's just kind of Yeah, she watches it. She's like, yeah, she's like, you know, but she realizes that I'm still a tribe She realizes that I'm still an in-demand kind of kind of when your relationship is first of all healthy But also used to be a lot more common. So it's becoming increasingly rare. And yeah, and so yeah And that's another thing. It's like we've we've been brought up for so long in this blue pill paradigm What I'm talking about is outrageous. I can't believe it. It's just normal. Yeah, and Most of it so so it sounds like it's wrong when you've been caught you've been fed this constant Diet of Oprah Winfrey saying you got to keep it fresh girl and you got it. You know, it's propaganda You got to make sure she's comfortable and you got to make sure you know You wash more dishes and you got you got to be vulnerable and cry for a few times. It's like, no You don't know that's Understand that that you know people say Talk to me about vulnerability a lot and I've got several posts on vulnerability and people say, well, shouldn't I be vulnerable? And I tell you guys no, you should not be vulnerable That should not be your primary characteristic as being a vulnerable guy, okay? So that when you are vulnerable women go, oh, wow, this is really serious You know, he's he's actually opening up to me because it's really rare. Yeah, because it's a rare. It's it's a treat It's a reward like candy and that's how a woman knows that You're serious that you're like, okay. Well, he would never do this with with He would never do this with his mother, you know He would never do this with anybody else but me and it again It plays on that arc that beauty and the beast archetype where women want to tame the alpha And they wanted to tame the beast and it's she's only, you know, he's only tamed for her, right? Well, if you're constantly going, oh, yeah, I'm I I'm gonna tell you about my feelings out of bad day at work And you're constantly this vulnerable, you know Sponge all the time for her and you think that the more you because men are deductive We think that if if a little bit of vulnerability is good a whole lot. It must be even better, right? So we're gonna go and we're gonna we're gonna overextend on stuff like that when in reality She wants to see you basically it's invincible. I'm not saying yeah, exactly that women From an evolutionary standpoint from I I honest to god believe this is probably written into women's dna They are looking for competency in men and that means universal competency That means they're looking for you need to be able to change a fucking tire You need to be able to to put a new sink in the damn kitchen You need to be able to to tell me about world history and you better be able to I mean you have to be Like we were just talking about the education is its own reward, right? Well god damn it you better know a a whole lot about a whole lot because if I got to call another guy in here to fix my sink Then that is of that is a weakness and that's a vulnerability for you because you couldn't do that Well, would you say too that they crave it because they need it? Yes, yes, definitely. They need that and why do they need that they need that because in the past That is what was a cue and an indicator for a man who could Improvise and it's it's what's I've written a couple articles about creative intelligence And that's what it is. It's creative intelligence. We gotta wrap up in a minute. By the way, I'm really better But what creative intelligence is is this a guy who can improvise and the guy who can create things on the fly That's one of the reasons why artists are attractive to women is because That in on a on sort of a visceral kind of hindbrain lizard brain level women see that creative intelligence as An ability to if if if shit goes south Then he'll be able to take care of me Even if you know, even if the river gets high and we have to walk out of here kind of thing Like he'll figure out how to build a boat, right? Or if he's got a fighter and he's got a fighter He's got to figure something out So he's smart and so there's always a selection for creative intelligence and that's one one aspect of If all we're talking about Evil evil psych but we can talk about that all day long. We got to wrap up. We gotta head up to coca beach soon Yeah, we're going shark fishing today. We should take some pictures. Oh, yeah Thanks for coming in line Thanks to you live guys, uh, any last words on the convention, uh, go just go, uh, if you're if you're even on the fence I think I think last year's convention is certainly the best advertising for this year's Again, we're And you know this we're trying to get away from that that purple pill You know that old school look in fact, I've been talking to you about maybe even changing up some of the logo It's having the campaign. Let's say we're making a purple, you know, so, yeah I'm yeah Anyways, I mean I would love for you to change this up and I'm that's not just because I'm a designer myself a lot of it does But uh, you know, I mean just as a chain a change to say that we've moved on from what we what you have And uh, but I think that if you are on the fence Then ask somebody. I mean, you don't have to take my word for it. Ask somebody who went last year Um, go look at some of the the posts that were on my comment sections about the about the convention You'll want to go um, and again, it's not just you sitting there listening guys all the time. Yeah, you get to you get to It's very interactive. I make damn sure it's interactive. I try to give as much value as I possibly can I'll talk to you in between In between seminars or in between talks dinners. There's dinners. There's parties There's uh, I mean like I said, christmas queens goes and takes guys out You know to clubs and stuff like that. I'm sure there'll be some other guys that will do that as well I would I don't know if we could do it this year, but I would very much like to see some of these guys who are like the physical fitness expert guys like aj Cortez I'd love to see them at the gym and say here's you know, we have a giving guys, you know Like showing some, you know some sort of in the gym kind of seminar kind of thing would be great too We'll see. Yeah, I'll be good. So but do go. Yeah, and it's cheaper now Yes, uh, then it will be because what's 999 right now? It's 800 off until may 31st And then every month it goes up. Yes So so it behooves you to do it early Longer you wait more you pay and it's better if you buy the ticket from my website Yeah, go ahead. Yep, the ration mill.com Also, there's a link underneath this. Thanks. Great. Thanks guys. We're efficient. Yep. I'm gonna head out Adios post pictures Yeah