 Hello. Greetings. Good morning. We'll get started at five after. Meeting notes are in zoom chat. Helen, you're invited places. Good morning, everybody. Morning. Trust you haven't been up to anything too. Untoward while I've been on holiday. No. Okay. Update on the. Best practice categories. I think was the. The main thing. I may repeat that today. Just. Let more people see. I'm going to add it to the agenda. It's a little apps. All right. Hi, Ben. Ronnie. Okay. The last. Yeah. As I told you, I would come the week after. Yeah, great. So, I'm just going to read it out. I'm just going to. Welcome. Usually get started about five after. That's cool. There's a link to the meeting. That's folks can add your names. Any topic you'd like to chat about. Right. We might be a minute early, but I think it's worth getting moving. So welcome everybody to the regular. And I'm out of touch because again, I've been away on holiday for a couple of weeks. So I haven't been in, been to the last couple of meetings, but I'm just catching up with what we have in the agenda. I see we have a long list of events of which the first is actually starting tomorrow. Just in case anyone's going. Well, firstly is anyone going and secondly, is anyone got any specific session recommendations? That it would be worth attending? Oh, it's done. Silence. Have we got any attendees at all? I did participate in a panel. That's that first one there. That's the NFA panel discussion. There's some folks from. Service providers and vendors and stuff on the panel. Kind of looking forward in the future kind of questions as well as talking about working with various standards and how to do integrations and stuff. There's some, I guess, related talks about all the different topics. So. All right. Beyond that. We have. Yeah, so. That's the. Yeah, the Chinese coupon effectively. I don't think we've got very many people from the Asian side of the world with us this morning. We're not exactly set up very well for timing on that anyway, but. Again, any. Recommendations. I see we've got one mentioned in there, which is an edge computing. Discussion, which actually proved quite interesting, I would think. So, yeah, mobile world Congress, obviously, about the biggest event of the year. I don't know what papers anyone might have filed or, or, you know, requested there, but obviously that can be quite difficult to get anything with anything accepted simply because it is such a large event. I see we have a European. Open networking edge summit, which will be nice. Although God knows whether and how, how actual physical attendance will work out for that. You never know. And then we're off into the distance. Although that coupon deadline, I recognize is what four weeks out, I guess at this point. So if we want to actually get anything, anything into Kube County, you then now would be a good moment to get it sorted. I'll mention the. I think the European community is talking about a face to face meeting. I think probably in coordination with mobile Congress. I'm not sure. Okay. That's got good and bad things with it, trying to find anywhere within 50 miles of Barcelona to stay. Yeah. It's also a long time to be traveling if you want to do both. Both. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that'll be interesting. So you've got your ear to the ground on that side of thing. You can keep us up to date then. Yes, I will do that. Sounds good. Okay. Reviewing the open pull request is going to be really, really easy because we don't have any open pull requests. So I think we're doing very well at the moment. I know quite a lot about how we've got that clear, got the backlog cleared, but. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Which Taylor leaves you to your best practice category updates. All right. Folks in my screen. Yeah. Yeah. We see. All right. So this is what. We have now. The one category that's. I guess not showing on the working group. It is in the test suite. It is a resilience. We just haven't ever done a pull request to add it. After getting feedback for a while. On the different categories and. Where best practices could go. Testing. The different concerns and. I guess focus on. Areas. That would be relevant to what we're focusing right now. We've looked at making some updates and. Possibly. The idea was to shrink it down a little bit. With some of the overlap, but not the ones that were still. Talked about a lot. So here is. I can move forward. Let's see. This is where we're looking to go right now. So from this 10. Down to seven. The configuration life cycle would be one where. It's somewhat split up. And merging. With others. It's such a large area that you could put a whole lot of things. Under it. So. The configuration is now, which may get a new name. The idea is to focus on the declarative configuration aspects. For best practices, whether that's API's or. The deployment configuration or. Tying in with whatever else there. And some of the parts of life cycle. Or you look at best practices or tests that already exist. And there's already. I don't know what the total number is. I think it's over 30 something tests that are. Live in the test suite. Would get merged over into different places like. This compatibility and solubility and upgrade ability. Which used to be insulation upgrade. So there's some things that were around configuration that. Have gone into here. The scaling category. It goes into. Resilience, reliability, resilience and availability. Although I think there may be some that. Are tied over here. Potentially, but it's shrinking it down into. A little bit smaller. So you can see these. Resilience compatibility got merged. There was a hardware support. That's tying into wherever it makes sense over here. So maybe under compatibility or maybe configuration. We think these. This list is going to be easier to talk about. From a best practice standpoint. We did keep security separate. Because it seems, even though it could go into. Every part of. The. Process. From initial design all the way through. The production. Operation management. Right now it's such a. Big focus. That we've kept it separate. We can always change this again in the future if it makes sense, but this is the. The direction we're headed right now. I'll stop there and I guess get any feedback. I know that some of the names and words could change. So this is mainly from the. Testing that you're recategorizing. Is that what you're saying that that's what made you. Has made you rethink the categories, right? Yes. So the, the test suited. I guess it still has, because it hasn't changed it. 10 categories. The CNF working group categories has nine. It doesn't have the resilience yet. So the test suite. Is looking at merging and making it a little bit easier to see where the different tests are. There's a lot of information that would be related. I guess documentation related to each test about why is this tested? That's why is it important? It's related to a best practice. What is it doing? And that sort of thing. But tying those all together into. A set of categories where people can look and find them and understand what they're about. It's as important, I think, is. The best practice categories. And I think it was. Yeah. That would be. That would have been Robbie. Who did this originally, like a, this was kind of an initial structure. For the best practice. We haven't put anything in here yet. I guess we could update it to. Have the. The non-root that'd be under the security. We don't have that listed here, but. Yeah. But that would be related. To the test categories and try to. Have them in sync with the best practice categories. Okay. Well. I. Think the easiest way to do that would be for you to try and probe them. Propose a poll request for the document that you just had on screen. Since that's the major place where the categories are used. And we can see if we like the results of it. Sounds good. I mean, that this is still open to debate on both sides. That if we had some suggestions on how those categories could be done slightly differently, we could go back to. The. Testing group and talk with them about. Alternatives as well. Absolutely. We want to hear what makes sense. To for different folks. So from a. Service provider. To a different perspective. Consuming CNS. Integrating between multiple parties. And the platform and everything else. What are the concerns and what type of. Attributes or behavior at the highest level. Like reliability, resilience, availability, right? Or a state. This is about handle, handle state. And then. Speak to a service provider and do these. Do we need to adjust? Maybe just descriptions. And then from the. Creator site. What things are relevant right now that are. When adopting cloud native practices, what's. Something that's relevant to keep in mind. And if there's feedback on that, whether it's, let's make sure and describe it. Robbie put in some stuff here that they get these started. That's fine. Or if there's like different names or wordings, like configuration, I was mentioning. Maybe. That may need to say declarative configuration. You know, some other thing we've adjusted state, I think three times or four times trying to. Get it. What's okay there. But yeah, love to hear any feedback that folks have. Including now, if anyone has anything. Yeah. Hi, this is run me. I think it's a good list. The only thing I'm kind of concerned about is. How it will be used by. Let's say I'm a CNF developer. So does that mean I need to read the set of best practices cover to cover before I even attempt to design my CNF or. Or can we come up with some kind of a flow chart or cookbook or. Like a step by step saying, okay, start here. Look at those best practices first, then as you start implementing look at those. I mean, I'm not sure it can be done. I'm saying it would be nice if we can do something like that. I might give it some more thought and come up with some initial proposal for it, but I don't know what other folks think if something like that would be necessary or is it possible to create something like that in addition to this set of categories. I guess it's my personal view on it. I think it's a good idea. I would hesitate to say someone needs to start in the one specific place. Before they get gone. If there's a lot of it's going to be based on. How you became a, I guess developer creator, you know, your background on that. So your approach can be very different and you may have, you know, different things within. So I think we do this first. And I'd say probably the first thing that the only thing I'd say is it's good if you try to figure out who your end users are, and then work backwards from their needs to how you're going to do it as far as the best practices goes. When we're saying like cloud native best practices for networking applications, which is what we're talking about right now. I would say you look for those whenever you're building out your application. That would be my approach. Someone else may say I'm going to go learn the best practices and know them before I start. But again, I think that parts personal preference. But if you do, if you have like some type of. And other documentation or workflow or anything that you think that would be welcome to anybody. For getting started. Use cases, user stories, any documentation that helps people build. Applications is going to be a good thing. Yeah, I see your point and I'm still a little bit concerned about how do we help people not to miss any of the best practices or overlook things and discover them too late in the game. As I said, I'm not sure I have a very good solution for that. I had this kind of walk through flow chart, whatever checklist, I don't know, I'll give it some more thought. And if I can come up with a good idea, I'll share it with the group. And for me, it would be easier to start with a specific problem and work backwards. So if I'm trying to create an application that needs to handle state like a some type of, I'll just say database for not having a better word. And my, there's a core part of the application that needs to store data. And I need to keep track of it. And I need that to be resilient, redundant and everything else. Well, then I could start looking at what are practices for running something that's storing data on a Kubernetes platform, if that's your target, and what are the best practices on that. And then I'd work my way backwards from there. So identifying the problem and then starting to look. And if you have like an area that you're passionate about, then I think you're going to have a better time than if we say here is the practice to look at for some, some area that I never touch, but happy to see whatever you're thinking. I'd like to see it flow chart. Yeah. So as I said, I'll give it some more thought and try to put something. And I guess outside of like anything with regard to best practices, you need to publish. I think for people to be able to find them. So that would be one thing. So if anybody wants to help. On publishing best practices based on your experience. Then please. Just jump right in or reach out to, you know, one of us. And Ian or myself or anyone else that's actively. Working on these and we can try to. Start drafting and get some out. So we'll have to have that. But other than the work here, like as far as a tool, if you're building. If you're creating applications and you're wanting to try to follow best practices, the CNF test suite is specifically designed to help with that. Like it's. We're trying to create it as a tool. To help a developer to catch things. So there's a lot of stuff that. Is on the call as part of. Cubescape project and that's a. A security focus tool. And there's direct integration into the. Test suite that uses Cubescape. And that can do scanning for various. Vulnerabilities are. Essentially best practices. Somewhere around the NSA Kubernetes hardening guide. And we have stuff from. Litmus chaos. For doing resilience type testing. And a bunch of others configuration and other things. So some of these are. More on the implementation side. Versus the documentation. That the working group does documenting a lot of content to have a deeper understanding. But if you're. If you've had any experience with test driven. Development. Then the test suite can be a good. A good tool in your toolbox. For helping to check things as you're moving along. And I think you might have been speaking and I've been. If you wanted to respond and go ahead. No, I haven't been speaking. I was listening along with that. I think it would be, I mean, this is personal. It's not a meeting issue, but I think I. Have kind of lost touch how to apply the test kit that we you've got. And exactly how it would help. So I suspect I've got some personal research to do on that side of things. Other than that. I believe this was the last topic on the, on the list and unless anyone's been doing updates, which I. Just check for. Yeah. We're basically. We have nothing else to talk about at this point. So anyone else got anything else they'd like to raise today. Okay. Well, in that case, you get half an hour back. Thank you everybody for your time. Have a think about what you'd like to talk about next week, what wants to go on the agenda. And I'll see you again in a week's time. Cheers. Have a good one. Bye. Thanks.