 Welcome to Dare to Dream. This is Debbie Daschinger, your host, and today's show features Wes G. Roberts, who is an alien, abductee, author, and consultant. And we will deep dive with Wes a little later. The Dare to Dream podcast has been nominated for two People's Choice podcast awards. For a Webby Award is listed in Welp Magazine as one of the top 20 best podcasts to listen to. And we recently won the Coalition of Visionary Resources Best Radio Show and Podcast Award, and that was received in Denver. Thank you to all of you for supporting and for your comments. Thank you so much. It's amazing. I'm about to teach a class, by the way. It is a five-day podcast interview challenge where for five days, $19 only, I'm teaching people how to get interviewed on podcasts because I mean, if the pandemic taught you nothing else, being online and having visibility, finding your tribe, letting your tribe find you, it's everything. So if you would like to join that, go to debbd.net slash challenge. It's D-E-B-B-I-D.net slash challenge. And I bring that up because some of the people who are coming aboard have registered for that class, which is gonna be on Zoom, have said, oh, I've been following your show. I love your podcast. So folks, if you're one of those who listens and loves and watches, please comment. I need to know you're out there. Please subscribe. Please let me know your thoughts about the guest or what they're saying. It really means a lot and I do read what you write. This show is sponsored by Dr. Dane here and acts as consciousness, so much gratitude to them for the many years they've supported this show. If you would like to do energy work, become a facilitator, go to one of their classes anywhere in the world. Go to Dr. Dane, D-A-I-N, here, H-E-E-R.com or accessconsciousness.com. And I am Debbie Daschinger and I'm a media visibility specialist. I'm an authority in media and visibility out into the world. What that means is I run a visibility hub. I teach people how to write books. I'm a book writing coach and I show you how to write a highly engaging page turner book. I also have a company that fully done for the author takes their book to a guaranteed international bestseller and the third leg of that hub is I show you how to get booked on radio and podcasts and get massive results. So stick with me. You can go to debbie.net slash challenge and find out today how to be interviewed. Be my pleasure. So without further ado, I know this is an exciting topic for many of you. Today we're talking with Wes G. Roberts who is an alien abductee and experiencer. Wes is also a 30 plus year contract college professor. He teaches computer technology, business writing, office procedures at two of the largest colleges in Canada. In the late 1980s, Wes had a remarkable experience which over 20 years was identified as an alien abduction. Today, as an abductee, his passion is to spread the word to help others, to help others to come to terms with their own potential alien encounters and to tell others we are not from here. Alongside numerous alien experiences, Wes spent several active years in paranormal research institute with psychic abilities. He's also trained in remote viewing and he is a lifelong magician. Wes co-hosted and periodically appeared as a guest on Leslie Mitchell Clark's blog talk radio Contact Together Show. Wes and Leslie co-wrote the book, Intersections, A True Story of Extraterrestrial Contact. Wes wrote a second book called An Experiencer's Garden. Wes has appeared on numerous podcasts, YouTube and live radio. He lives in Toronto, Canada with his partner, Anna. And if you would like to learn more about him, go to wesgroberts.com that is his website. And with that, I welcome Wes Roberts to the Dare to Dream show. So good to have you. Hi Debbie, thanks so much for having me here. My heart's really palpitating, you know. It's a little excitement. I feel the same, I really do. This is such a yummy conversation and I just haven't had the opportunity to speak to anybody like you. So you're kind of like after you're reading your books, I feel like a little bit of a, I don't know, a celebrity in your experiences and being an experiencer. So first of all, how do you feel? Welcome to the show and how do you feel coming out if you will and talking about all of this? So I want to thank you for a thorough intro. I love the energy. I love what you emanate, picking up on it. How do I feel? I, for a lot of years thought I can't share this and I imagine I'm not alone in that. So my family to a large extent were the last ones to know. I started to share it with a colleague. I started to share it with my ex who's appeared in a few scenarios I've gone through. Then I thought I've got to do something about this because I was sitting on a key experience I had in the 80s. I was sitting on that for 19 years or so thinking, this, I don't know what it is, the dream, I don't know what it is. So I went through a process of elimination and finally thought came full circle. If it's not to dream, not a visualization, not another body experience, if it's not an illusion, it probably is what it seems to be. And it seems to be a series of abductions, both physical and psychic or spirit. And so I thought, I don't know how to integrate this was my issue. And so I was on some shaky ground for a while a few years back because I've been a college prof for a long time and you've got, you're the center of attention. So I know you'll get that. You're the center of attention in front of your class. You've got to be real stable, level headed. And I teach computers and tech and communication skills, some hard science, you know what I mean? So it was getting tough for me some days to think, how long can I go on without proper sleep and how long can I go on without feeling nervous about going to sleep? You know, there was a time when I was afraid to close my eyes. It happens periodically still, but not very often. So in all of that, you know, a few years ago, I thought I better seek hypnotherapy, not to uncover an experience I consciously remembered, but to just try to address what this is all about and whether it's real or not real. So once that started to happen, I started to integrate all this better and feel better about it. So I don't live in fear. I feel pretty good, pretty grounded. So, okay, 18 to 19 years before you can investigate your own alien induction experiences. And prior to that, this time you're talking about and sharing with us, did you have any unique symptoms as an abductee? I was able to, I don't want to say retro fit because that's incorrect. I want to say revisit some experiences I have when I was younger and a couple of them fit. And I thought, oh, you know, I was taken by surprise by that. I thought, well, that was just, that was just a whatever, it was just a visitation. I don't know a visitation from what, or for instance, that was just stuff I saw in a seance. Or that was stuff that we talked about in the Parapsychological Research Institute. But when I looked back at it, I think, well, wait a sec, I have since spoken to other abductees and other experts who said, oh yeah, the three beings in the doorway thing, or they'll say something else. And it's like, really, I thought that was just me, but it wasn't just me. So yeah, there were a number of experiences. You know, I keep dream journals and other journals. And so I went through 10, 12 of those before I wrote either book thinking, mark that off, mark that off, mark that off. You know, so 19 out of 20 things were marked off the list because they were dreams. Wow. Okay, perfect. So then you decide you wanna go and do hypnosis. You're at a crossroads. And is this when you meet Leslie Mitchell-Clark? Yes, yes it was. I was not looking for her by name. I went to someone else who said, I don't do that. Meaning, deal with people like you. Not in a bad way. I don't know how she meant it. But she said, here's Leslie. And I think Leslie was just getting her practice going. And she would deal with it. And it was like, okay, so I'm nervous all over again. And then I didn't realize I had to go through an assessment which everybody should know. You know, you need to be triaged before you'll be accepted as a client. I have no therapist needs to understand you're not mentally unbalanced. And so that's when I met her, yes. So she's been on this show. She's amazing. And how was it for you when you had the first hypnosis experience and the first several, were you an easy subject? Was it difficult for you? I think I was an easy subject. I think I'm very hypnotizable, if that's a word. It was a little traumatic because I probably had misconceptions that everybody has. You know, I'll be unconscious, not true. I'll be in an altered state, that is true. I'll be able to remember everything, that's true. I will not be required to relive the trauma. That's an important part of true. You know, that happened back in the day for Betty and Barney Hill, right? Yes, that is true. That's not what she does. So yeah, the first session I thought, we're gonna get to this. We're gonna talk about my 80s experience and didn't happen the first, second, even third. Took a while to get to it. Instead, I was presented with, I guess, evidence. If you're saying I'm accessing memories, I was presented with evidence that this has been going on always since childhood. So when I came out of the first session, I wasn't like balling my eyes up, but I had tears in my eyes. And I said, is this stuff for real? That's almost word for word is what I said to her. And she's there, yeah. And I thought, okay, good. Because I didn't want it to be illusion. I didn't want to think I was losing it. How did she help you? So this is correct. I've been hypnotized as well, not for the subject. But it is absolutely correct. You're not unconscious. There's a lucidity, although something else is also going on this complete freedom of access. So when you come back and now you've got shocking material after each subject, how does she help you to assimilate? So when you go back to your life, you're okay. You're able to realign and carry on. I think among other things, and Leslie, in her case specifically, I think she has background in psychology or psychiatry as a psychiatric nurse. I might be mistaken. So I don't want to speak out of turn, but she helped me to get to the point of integration where I could function, where I wasn't pounding on the table saying, not there, you folks beings, you beings come in when you feel like it, which is still somewhat true. You come in when you feel like it. You present me with a scenario. You present characters who may or may not be real or living. That could be props for all I know. And then you observe me either flipping out or becoming aware that I'm in an experience and therefore they terminate it. So Leslie helped me integrate that. Eventually we backed off on some of my sleep problems through her. And she also, because of the way she works, and I think all legit hypnotherapists work this way, she'll not lead me by the hand. She'll say, walk through any door you want. When you walk through that door, tell me what you see, tell me what you're experiencing. And that's uncovered an awful lot and it's filled in some gaps, like, oh, the stuff that happened when I was a young teenager, now I can explain that. Or, oh, now I know why people either run away from me or run toward me. Most people run away, but some run in my general direction. Well, there's the fear factor. People can, some people can sense it just coming out of me. And you know what, I understand it. I met some abductees long before I thought I was ever one. And frankly, I was creeped out. Okay, what did they emanate? When you say people can perceive, even if they don't know what they're perceiving, what is that when you were creeped out? I felt nervous. I felt an energy I was not familiar with. I felt a sense of impending something. I couldn't put my finger on what that meant. The atmosphere was altered when I was in their company. This is two cases, perhaps. So the atmosphere was altered. So I don't do this on purpose, but some people around me think there's something about you. And it's like, okay, lucky me. So there's something about you. And some of them really are just fearful. If I say, well, do you wanna hear about this? Do you want to know more about parapsychology? You wanna go on a trip where we recover spirits that are stuck, earthbound or whatever. Do you wanna do one of these things? Like, no, let's go. Yeah, okay, I get it, totally get it. Leslie Mitchell-Clark said this about you. This is a quote that you have, quote, genetic predisposition for telepathic and other forms of esoteric communication. Wes clearly had this genetically transmitted gift. He was and is a virtual lighthouse of Alexandria when it comes to non-physical communication. So you didn't just uncover that you had these experiences on top of it. You already naturally came with psychic abilities. Also, you're able, I was reading, I've read your book, so touch a ring or an object belonging to somebody and perceive information that has blown people away. You've played around with remote viewing, magic, cult, et cetera. So this is in your wheelhouse. And so how much do you think helps you with all of this? You have so many actually questions around all of that. I also wondering if you feel like, well, obviously your soul needed those gifts in this lifetime, but do you feel like they're human gifts or non-human gifts? This is a great series of questions. This could take up the show. Totally. I used to feel I was swimming upstream because people labeled this stuff para, paranormal, parapsychology, para sensibilities or whatever, and ESP and that was like, boy, I was in a small club. I was in a small club. Actually, I'm not in a small club is what I've discovered over time that I consider these things to be extensions of your natural ability. You can harvest them. You can develop them. I think everyone has it at least at the latent level, but beyond that, speak to any parent that cares about their child. You're gonna hear stories. Speak about somebody who walked down the street and could feel somebody behind them and not hear them. Yeah, you're gonna hear stories. So I began to consider these were a natural extension or could be an extension of our five senses, like clairvoyance for far sight and all the rest of them, right? And so I thought, well, I don't know exactly why I have them and I don't wanna fear them. So I'm gonna work at developing them. And I hung with people when I was younger, not for a long time. Spiritualists in particular really helped me get on the map in terms of understanding this. Then the Paranormal Research Institute helped me understand how these things are evaluated scientifically. And then I've worked with groups of people, close groups of people all my life and I still do to push the boundaries of what we feel is possible. I don't think we need to work with restriction. Yeah, I love that. I do. I'm finding that I was sharing with you before the show started, all the things I'm reading right now and engaging in. And here I am having this conversation with you, things that I think I've learned so much and I'm absorbing all of this amazing material and then boom, someone like you comes along, my mind is blown and it's beautiful. Like I love it actually. So let's give the audience a little flavor if you don't mind of some of what you went through. So can you talk about, if you wanna tell a couple of stories, but just share some of what your truth is and these experiences that formed who you are today and are a big part of who you are. I would love to, thank you. I guess I'll mention one, my ex always just looks at me in a bemused way when I say, you were there. I still say she was there. Anyway. Is this L? No. Okay. This is E. E, okay. So E, E for Elizabeth. I wanna say as a short preface that a lot of these just are packed with so many lessons, analogies, metaphors for life, that they seem to be surreal. And I sometimes do not know the dividing line between physical experiences and non-physical experiences. What I do know is you remember it all. Unless they've shut that off, which they're quite good at doing, but you remember it all. So any trauma, excitement, depression, anxiety, love, whatever it is you feel, it's registered in your spirit. So when you come away from that particular abduction experience, it's there. It's living with you. You own it, you know, you own it at that point. So this one started out innocuously. I was an executive assistant at the time. So I've worked in a lot of offices here and I really liked that career and I thought I was having a dream. I was called in to work at three o'clock in the morning. That really doesn't happen, or at least it didn't with me. So I was called to work at three in the morning to attend to a corporate meeting. So all the suits and the important people were there and there was Tee-Tee Tiny, a little me, little executive assistant who was supposed to help this cause somehow. But at one point we felt that an alarm of some kind rang in this office building and we all started running. And so as I was running out the front door, I was joined by my ex and we were running and there were beings chasing us and they were chasing us through the streets at night as I recall it. And I thought, how are we going to escape these? These indescript beings, we couldn't describe them. They were just in pursuit. And after a while, then things blurred a bit until they didn't blur it, but they blurred for a bit because then we were on a dirt path headed toward a hill that had mounds, not a mountain, just a hill with mounds with entrances in the poles of some kind. And when we reached that, we thought, well, we'll escape this way, right? We'll escape. And then we were apprehended by whatever kind of beings belong to that place. And this is where it's not so blurred. We went through this opening and we had to climb down into a facility. It was modern. There was equipment. There were monitors. For sure, there were people. As well, there were alien beings. And I don't want to go too far down the military industrial complex thing, just to say that it fits in some ways. So the end game for everyone in that facility besides my ex and I was to transform us. That was the end game. And to do that, pardon me, they had a device in which you had to put your face. And also my ex and I were to be separated. And I was really freaked out about that. Really mad, but it didn't matter. Your face goes in that thing. So it went in that thing like that. And it just molded itself to my face. I felt like I was suffocating. So this was not a pleasant experience. And most of my experiences are not like this. Most of them are positive. So this is not positive. So my face is in there. I thought I'm going to pass out because I can't breathe. And then my little situation was over. And then they took me and they stood me there for a second, I was to be escorted to recovery room. And I knew that my ex was going to go through this process too. So I was escorted up in just like a common building facility, it had elevators, nothing unusual, look like a hotel, except for the facility, the underground part, look like a hotel. So I walked down to my own recovery room and they left me to my own devices. And I was able to explore for a short time to my heart's content. And this was all made out of molded to me plastic, all black, as if the furniture had been molded from the floor and the enclosures for cupboards were molded from the walls. And the gurney that I was going to get on at some point was coming up from the floor, all molded stuff. And I thought, well, that's, I'm going to explore. So I walked around explored and not much I can say about that, except there was a mirror. And this was huge for me because in my experiences I don't get to see myself. And so I looked at myself in the mirror and I thought, I look like them, you know? And how did they look? If they look and the way I describe it is if somebody took a sand blaster to their face and chest and all that had to heal. So if you think about the metaphors and analogies that work here, the symbolism was incredible. So I saw myself and I look like them. And so then I went down and I laid on the gurney and I could hear outside that my ex was being escorted into the room and she was like me and they walked her over to me and they couldn't understand why I was getting so upset. I was just starting to wail. I mean, I lost it. And I said, I think I know now what this is about. I think I know what we are end of experience. And before we started the show, you and I were chatting and I had mentioned to you, I've seen spacecraft. And you said, you've never seen spacecraft but you've been in spacecraft. So we're the complete opposites, I've never. Well, to my knowledge. You know, there's a report out there somewhere that says probably almost 100% of people on earth have at least at one time or another had either alien contact or been abducted, et cetera. So I actually believe that and so to my knowledge anyway but you've had other craft experiences. Are they always with the same beings look the same act the same or is it very random that you're taken by different species? I'm not sure it's random. I'm gonna say that for me, there might be three species that work in my life, the most common, the most benevolent, the most sharing, the most loving, the most that's there for me is what I would call a Nordic or a tall white. She could be a Palladian, I am not certain. I've never said, what are you? Because we don't have that kind of discussion but she's been in my life since I was a little kid and one of the most delightful experiences was my first or second hypnosis session which we can talk about if you like but so she is the most common constant force in my life and looking at the transcripts that were recorded she has just said to me, I'm never not here. I'm always with you. I'll sit up in bed or something and say, appear. It's like, no, this is not how it works. This is not how we work together. So she would be the most common constant force in my life. These kind of brown skin things, Leslie and I tend to call them helpers. I don't know the race quite honestly. And then the third one might be a tall graze which have occurred a couple of times. One walked me down the street when I was really little, three or four, clothes didn't fit him properly like a man in black thing. And the other said he was a doctor and I've talked about this before. I'm convinced he healed me of pneumonia or it. Why would they care about us? I think most of the species do care about us. There's only a couple of row species that really want to tear a strip off us. Okay, so Nordic tall whites, brown skin helpers, tall graze. I'm going to get back to that because you gave us a great question to ask. Have you in all your life, if you remember, Wes, have you ever woken up paralyzed in your bed with this sense of a strange person? You were talking about the three beings in a doorway kind of thing as a symptom. But have you ever woken up feeling paralyzed, strange person or presence or something in the room? Oh heck yeah. When I thought back about the three beings in the doorway, around that time of my life, I guess I was 15 or so, I used to undergo spontaneous out of the body experiences. So the state which some call catatonic or cataleptic where you have body agility. Can I stop you for a second? So when you say that, because I've had this by the way, when you say this, cataleptic, do you mean that you cannot move? You cannot, there's something that catalyzes you? Yes, I do. All right. Yes, I do. If you've got a good imagination, and I've read this about other people too, I start with my baby finger. Once I get the baby finger working, I can get out of bed. Quite honestly is how I dealt with it back then. I'm touching something there. I'm sorry if I brought something unpleasant. No, thank you. No, I haven't thought about this in forever. It hasn't happened to me forever because I got to a place where I literally yelled at my reality. I can't stop. I don't ever want this to happen again. It happened once on a beach. I had just gotten here from New York and I went to Santa Monica and I laid out a blanket and I fell asleep and I woke up and I could not get back in my body. I was somewhere else and it wouldn't move. Nothing I did. It was a while. I was very panicky. I had no metaphysical knowledge that I have today, so it was actually pretty, a little bit traumatic. I don't remember what I finally got to move to come back. It happened a couple of times. This is so interesting. Where I was always in a very strange place and I would go back to the same very, very strange place. Frankly, it was really scary. Huge kind of castle with different rooms and things would happen and beings were there and stuff. And the final time it happened, again, it was that place which was really not good for me. And then I remember coming up my driveway. I don't know that was really my driveway, but this was in the state, that catalytic state, and there was a lion there waiting for me. And I'm actually, my mind is blown because I never, never, never connected this with anything other than, oh, I went out of body and had trouble coming back in. So forgive me. I just, this is actually pretty remarkable to even talk about this. But yes, I very much know that feeling and I know that feeling of when you come to, and there's lucidity after you're deep into an experience and you're aware there's a body and it's your body but you're also aware that it's not able to act like you're functioning and that it's very hard. It was for me very, very hard to come back in, but maybe that's just potency that I had to yell at my reality like never again, never again, never again kind of thing and knows what that was. I think this is a good technique. I've been encouraged to do something similar to that. It's interesting to the state when alien life forms switch people off. That's what they go through. They might not be in a panic mode, but that's what they go through. They can hear and that is all, just like I could when I was going under. So when they switch people off, it's because, well, you're not part of this experience, go to sleep. Well, they don't actually go to sleep always. They're just, they're put in that kind of a state as my partner way back when I said, anything strange happened last night? And it's like, well, as a matter of fact, you know, she said she could hear things and then a second experience, she could hear me talking with things in the other room, but that's all she could do. Because she couldn't move. Right. Interesting. Did you ever find any puzzling scars on your body? A couple of times, you know, I have a good friend who has sent me photos over the years. She'll wake up with bruises and puncture marks. So a couple of times I woke up with triangles on me. As if someone took something hot, like not a cow branding thing, but something hot and drew stuff on me, two interlocking triangles. It was the first time on my chest. So when I woke up in the morning, I thought, well, I got something strange going to take my T-shirt off. And there's these interlocking triangles. I thought, what the heck is that? And they were hot. You know, they were warm to the touch. And it's like, okay, day or two later, they went away. Once with a triangle up here. I think a lot of people get triangles, Debbie. Most of them get them on their hands. Or legs. Or they have three puncture marks in the shape of a triangle. What do you say, what are you attributed to? What do you think it's for? The puncture marks there. I'm going out on a limb here saying they're putting something in you or taking something out. The other triangles that aren't puncture marks, I almost feel like I was branded. I don't think I'm suffering because of it, but I almost thought it's like, oh here, by the way, just so you know something's happening as if I didn't. Have you ever thought about getting an X-ray in those places to see if anything shows up? I, interestingly, you said that. I just had to get some X-rays the other day, just routine stuff. And I don't think my lungs will show any triangles, but I haven't actually. It's such a good idea. I mean, my friend is really good at, at documenting the stuff. Well, here's puncture marks on my leg and here's bruising and here's this and here's that. I'm probably not as good as she is at doing that. So you mentioned second hypnosis session. Nordic tall white, a she who has been with you since childhood. Tell us what happens in that session. You know, it's so funny, right? Because she was a little girl. I was a little boy. I was a little boy. I was a little boy. I was a little boy. I was a boy. I went with a spindly arms. Yeah. The spindly arms. Eyes, no eyes. Describe this. That's her. It's her. And she's been here before this life as I was defined out at some point. But, um, yeah. So my first or second, maybe second experience. I found myself in a farmhouse. And it was real. It was physical. I was in a farmhouse and there was this little girl with the little spindly arms that you just described. eyes that weren't quite right, and the head shape wasn't quite right, and her little feet had no shoes on them. And I had some awareness, and I asked mentally, is this a real farmhouse? You know, I don't normally have that presence. But I said, is this a real farmhouse? And I got the answer back immediately. Yes, it's a real farmhouse. The owners are not here right now. Oh, okay. So I didn't know what to do, but I got the impression I was to show her around the farmhouse, not when I know. And show her around meant the silliest things for me, right? But apparently important to her. I would say that's a couch. I would say that's a counter, a kitchen counter, and those are plates. I would say that's the fridge. She didn't know these things. I opened the fridge. I saw what I felt was food, the normal stuff. And she saw, if I got her right, just lobs of color, like she wouldn't have identified it as food. This is our thing. We tend to put things on them. This is our thing. And so we walked around and I took her little hand. It's so romantic, don't you think? I loved it. I took her little hand and we walked to the stairs, and that's where the experience more or less stopped because she was afraid to go up the stairs and didn't know how. And so I was able to later identify, through a lot of hypnosis, that's her. That's where she first appeared in my life, not hearing you Debbie. Sorry, she's woven throughout your life. You have an ongoing relationship, in other words. And so talk about the piece about her being your twin. I feel so strongly about that, so strongly. Leslie and I did a lot of hypnosis sessions over five years, 30 plus. And I'm quite comfy with hypnosis. I like it. You're accessing a theta state and you're able to remember it all. What could be better than that? No drugs, no hallucinogenics, no booze. You're in the moment. So I appreciate that state because it puts you in touch with things. So as we were in touch with things, we didn't do exactly channeling, but we wanted to communicate with her in real time as best as possible. And in one of those sessions, it could have been earlier or later than that, she basically said or I said under hypnosis, that's my twin. She's my twin. And then strange stuff, not fully visual, but sort of corner of your eye visual, overlaying visual. Leslie as a hypnotherapist was watching and she saw an overlay on top of me, a tall, thin overlay. And that had to have been her is our best guesstimate about what that was because I was feeling pretty weird when that happened. I was too hot. I was feeling a little nauseous. I was feeling a bit of motion when I wasn't moving at all. And so she, she did that a few times, overlaid herself, including my arms and hands and everything. And Leslie was able to perceive it. And so we felt, we were, you know, having a three way conversation. My twin and I and Leslie. And so I think one of those sessions, we pretty much nailed it or I pretty much nailed it. That's my twin. And then the strangest thing, Debbie, as her counterpart, as far as we can tell, basically showed up to a friend of mine in Australia. Physically showed up. My friend was in the kitchen and she sent something behind her. And there's this like eight foot tall thing, a foot tall man, male thing. My twin is eight foot tall as well, very tall, very tall, very thin. And we're thinking that must be her counterpart of one of her race. So she wrote to me, unbidden, I never asked her about it, saying, Oh, I got a visit last night. And this was not a dream. This was fully full on conscious awake. Did she explain to you what she meant by twin? That does she mean as we have here something in the womb that is same egg but split and either comes out around the same time or seconds after the other? Or was there a completely different meaning like we came from the same star? Or did she explain it? Good question. No, not really. I've only been able to sense what she's communicated with me. So she might fall more along the lines of a twin flame. Actually, a soul sister, I and her, I and she, sorry, are of the same stock as far as I can tell. I'm not suggesting I'm in hybrid. I've been asked that a lot. I don't know if I am. But I think I am made it to her race. She is like a sister. Amazing. And you also talk in your book, and I'm sorry, before I go to the next question, did you finish that hypnosis session? Because if there's more, I definitely, I've read it, but I am loving hearing all this. Just that we, it could have been in that session or another similar one where I said to Leslie, you know, my twin doesn't understand emotions. You know, I'm flipping out half the time. I'm afraid in the middle of the night. I don't think she really understands emotions. And I'm emoting to her constantly. Come see me. You know, this kind of thing. So we decided to take that into session. I'm not sure if it was that session. But my, my twin is so overwhelmed me with emotion. I thought I was going to pass out. And it was like her going, just like that, shaking her alien finger at me, basically saying, smart nut. So the emotions were, I couldn't, I could not tolerate them. I couldn't withstand them. Was it her objective to say, this is how it feels to be me when you emote all over me? What was she saying with that interaction? I think she was saying that you'd be surprised the depth of our emotions. And that plays into a handful of experiences I've had where I think I'm home. I'm finally home. And I get that same wave of emotion. I got that from her that I get when I have those experiences when I think I'm home. And I just like drop on my knees saying finally. And she gives me that sense. Yeah, it's said that people who have spent most of their lives on other planets with other races and come here for maybe the first time, it can be very difficult to be separated, but also to be in the human condition. I feel alone. I'm sure I'm not the only one. And do I have kindred spirit here? Yeah, of course. I have kindred souls that I hang with. I go to my way to find them and to treat them as they would treat me with love and respect. I'll step in front of a bullet for you treatment. So yeah, I think that's very true. You know, you might have touched on something I hadn't considered much that that's my problem, my problems. I can't stand being away from home. Understandable. Absolutely. Especially with those kind of connections. You talk about in your book also that you believe without realizing of course that you've made love to nonhumans in the past. Can you recount what your understanding of that is or how that realization even came about? So that that has fallen into two distinct kinds of experiences. One kind of experience where I'll be taken to see children. Usually on board a craft. I'll be taken to see children. And the nuance is those are yours. Those are your children. In one of those and this is one type of experience in one of those experiences, there was I think the children's mother. I don't know if that was my partner, but the children's mother was in the room, but she was switched off clearly. Standing there with a blank expression like she wasn't present. And two beautiful little blonde girls scooting around the room until they finally ran out of my site. And it's like those are my kids. The other parts, heinous actually, if I was to be honest, you know, people fantasize. I think some people, not everybody. Some people fantasize about, oh, imagine having sexual relations with something that's nonhuman. Well, big, big, it depends. In my case, without going into any graphic detail, that's happened a handful of times. And it will start out where this person looks like a woman. It does not end up that way. Oh my goodness. So you can be in the middle of making love to who you think is a woman or coming towards the end. And suddenly they transform into their original form. And yeah, or you get the idea of why they are there. Unlike unfulfilled dreams where it's like, damn, you know, I wish that had have ended. But it was not like that at all. So yeah, I don't normally talk about them. I'm not trying to shut this line of inquiry down or anything. Just the most unpleasant experiences more than any other I've had. Yeah, I can imagine that kind of awakening could feel very violating. Yeah. And hypnosis helps you as well with that. That you can come to terms with that. It helps with everything because a picture of life as a giant puzzle, which all our lives are. And there's so many missing pieces. And anyone who's aware spends their whole life trying to fill in the blanks. Where's that piece? Okay, I'm going to fit it into its appropriate place. So it's filled in some pieces that the kind that you don't know that you miss them until they present themselves for the first time. You never knew you miss them. And so it's helped me in that respect. Help me be more rounded. Help me come to terms and say, I know why I'm here. I know why I'm doing this. You know, I'm not going to approach the world with fear and trepidation or worry as some people have said to me, you know, don't tell your employer or things like this, right? You'll be fired. And it's like, whatever, at this point, I'm not too worried about that. But anyway, so yeah, I've come to a more holistic approach in life. Come to appreciate things more. And I've come to have deep, deep bonds with close friends, with kindred souls, deep, deep bonds, amazingly wonderful. Do you feel like, I mean, you're such an interesting background, you were saying computer technology hard science were your words. Do you feel like that helps you at all? So you find yourself, you're in a craft. And in general, not always, but in general, they're far more advanced than we are. Do you find that either your prowess around these subjects really help you in those situations, or that when you're there, you can get information and bring it back with you? Well, that's a really good question. I think where it helps me is becoming periodically aware I'm in an experience. This is not what they prefer. You know, they prefer to that you're blind, so to speak, and that you just play out your part. That's what you do. So I think it's helped me become aware in some of the experiences to start to question them. And if something looks odd, it triggers me. You know, it's like the whole world of lucid dreamings. It's that one odd peculiar thing. You say, I must be dreaming. And so I watch for those in a very observant person. And when I run into them, I'll say in the middle of an experience, now I don't buy this. There's something not right about this. And it's like, Wes, you bad boy, you know, we're going to end this experience now. Okay. Does your psychic ability help you? Because they often, they don't usually communicate with mouths, it's often telepathy. Does that help you? Almost 100% telepathy, in my case. And I think it does, you know, I once had a conversation with the person, it's like, why, why does this work? We have how many languages on our planet? Why does telepathy universally work? That's because it's without language, understood in different layers and centers of your brain and your mind. So it works with everybody. So I think it has helped me because I've gotten pretty clear messages. I'll say to Leslie under hypnosis, there's someone behind me. There's something looking at me. Or I'll say to somebody sitting beside me, you do realize what's going on here, don't you? You know, that kind of thing. And so I think it's helped me and plus in this world, what we call the waking world, this bit of a hologram that we're living through, in this world, it helps me all the time. It helps deliver insight to me. Like the writing between the lines, I get a lot of that. That's beautiful. I have another code from you, Wes, which is it was never about money, not about fame. But the night I was asked the question recently in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic while sitting in a backyard, I don't think I did a good job of answering. So I thought about it later and for myself at least expanded my answer. I wrote what I did to share. I wrote what I did because I felt a pressing need, let's say from my alien friends, to out myself and to get the word out. Great quote. So can you talk more about that and include the alien friends and why they wanted you to do this? So this is kind of mission critical stuff in my life, as far as I can tell. From time to time, I'll be hauled into a meeting, not many of them, three or four, where they'll want to check and see how things are going. And it's like coming of age several times over. So the first time occurred in my teens, Leslie will talk about that too. It's almost like they're saying, okay, your age of consent. So you might, we might let you have a little bit more say or decide about your future. And so I've been hauled into meetings where they're usually aliens and sometimes people present, basically scrutinizing me, saying or thinking, is he okay? Has whatever we've delivered to him or put within him, has it taken? Is it stable? And then they'll outright ask me if I'm ready for the next step. And in that state, wherever that is, I have always said yes. I've always said yes. And then eventually I had interlife hypnosis, interlife regression. And wow, that really helped open the doors for me, helped me to settle down. Because there they were, life between lives, there they were, wanting to know if or hoping that one day I'd wake up. That was kind of put on me, right? One day I'd wake up and say, what was this? And then I'd do something about it, not just be placid, not just say I'm going to crawl under the rug because I'm frightened, you know, or not just say I'm going to avoid this, but indulge in it, move forward in it, you know, be forward facing. So that's why I did all that. It's like, I am not going to become a rich person from the sale of a few books. I don't care. And the second book was like, no, I don't want to write it. And then when I got close to publishing, unbelievable, within two weeks or so, I was going to pull the plug because I thought it was just not relevant, just not the kind of book people would like. Well, I'm so glad you didn't pull the plug. My goodness. So you've got these two books. Have you heard from readers who have said, first of all, your books positively changed me and or I too have had some radical experiences? Thank you. You know, periodically, not often, but periodically, for instance, we used to have the Alien Cosmic Expo up here pre-pandemic. So Leslie and I were there for several of those kind of hosting little things. We hosted an Experiencer's Workshop at the last one we ever had. That's when people will come up and someone will just stand up and they'll be crying. And they'll say, I couldn't tell anybody before. My position is, yeah, you could. You know, I can help you get there if you want. But yes, I understand you. I believe you. I don't know where your experience comes from. Is it truly an alien experience? It doesn't matter to me because people believed in me. So I believe you. Take baby steps. Tell somebody you trust and love and then work your way out from there to your comfort level. But yes, we have seen people stand up, start crying, say they couldn't tell anybody. A person grabbed me aside at the conference one day and showed me her legs and her legs were all scarred up, apparently from them, them being one of the racists. And she was crying and saying, I can't deal with this. I said, I'm here to help you. What do you want? You know, that's keep the conversation going. And we did for a limited time. And then she backed off. And I found that with a lot of people. They start to go down the rabbit hole. And it's, it can be traumatizing for some people. They can really unhinge them. So I'm curious, because I got the sense from your, from reading your book and books that you have, it's amazing to me that you're you, that you even hold your particles together because it felt like you, your West and whether it's a sleep state or wake state and something is happening that your experience experiences have been parallel lives. They have been multiverse lives. They have been past, present, future lives, like it's all going on plus this home, other planets, beings and you as one of them with those connections, et cetera. I mean, I could say a lot because there's also stories where they're asking you to sleep and there's a lot of people there while this is going on. So what about your experience? Is that true for you parallel lives, multiverse lives, past, present, present, future lives for you all while you're here, quote unquote, right now? I think we're expansive beings much, much more than we would know or care to admit. I think that we're in communication with other life forms. And they're in communication with us 24 seven nonstop. I fully subscribe to that whether it's spirit, afterlife, some place in the multiverse or omniverse, your personal guides, you know, your granny who you might have fought with all your life who's now in your corner, right? So I think we're, we're bombarded with information and with being and that it's up to us to open our horizons, widen our horizons and say, well, like I said to you earlier, what if that were true? What if it were true? And that's my standpoint. I go forward from that. I've done the same thing as you, by the way, where I have something going on. Mine is a little different in the sense that I'll have something going on and I will want guidance. And I'm always careful to say benevolent beings because obvious I, but I call them in from other planets that are I'm sure my star family or my guides. And I also have the same frustration like Phil, you know, why can't you show up when I ask you to please because they don't, they don't, and they may actually in ways that I'm unaware of, I have to say that I'll give them that. But I know that I very much have wanted that yearned for that. I know they show up in my life as orbs sometimes. I've been able to see orbs for three decades at this point. I'm not saying I'm, you know, an anomaly in the world. I'm not. But people seeing them with their naked eyes a bit different than catching them on a camera. But I can generally see them. I see them a couple of times a week. I never stop seeing them. So there's six or seven discreet theories about what they are. And there's books written about this stuff. But some of them are definitely discarnate or alien beings. And they're interacting with me, despite my denseness, because I can't figure out what they're saying or doing. All I see was, or that's it. I don't know what it did in what for me was a millisecond. But then I don't understand its consciousness. Yeah, I owe a lot to orbs. I have to say they helped me in my transitioning out of ignorance and into understanding the truth of all of what we're talking about. I was very early on when I started to go, oh my God, I think there's something very significant here. And I believe it. And I went to a contact in the desert workshop, but I was still, oh, all those people have had an experience. I haven't. So I felt separate in that way. And we were actually on very sacred land, having contact work. And we took a break and I'm like, and what I know to do is be creative when I'm in that state, to entertain myself. So I did have my phone. I started taking pictures because it was quite beautiful in the desert and pitch black. And I saw this very unique Arizonian tree and the sky. And I thought, let me take a photo of that. And I was so frustrated because every time I took a photo, it appeared that my finger was in the photo. So I definitely extracted my photo and then started moving around and taking other photos to capture what I wanted. And later on I was, there was this vast experience, expanse out into the desert. And I was just taking pictures of that. What I did was I turned off the flash so that all the light possible could come into the iPhone and create a picture. So it wasn't till I was done. And later on looked at the photos. Now I saw an orb I've never seen before. And I've seen them before. This one looked a very creamy, colored like a prism. It was almost the most solid. It was gigantic. It was never my finger in the picture. It was this beautiful, whitish, creamy. And the prism effect was a little bit purpley blue. I mean, super pretty. And I captured so many different aspects of it. And then more orbs all over. And then when I had, when I was shooting out into the desert, I had photos of spacecraft. So it's like, it felt like love to me, honestly. I felt like they were saying, sweetie, it's okay. We may not show ourselves to you in the way you're like, I can't see anything. But we will slowly, because I think I needed that reveal ourselves to you and, you know, bring you in to the fold. And it has been very gracious, I have to say. My experience around all of this. So I owe a lot to those first orbs. Other things happen on that trip that we're mind blowing as well. And we're very much directed to me in fascinating ways. So yes, I have also heard they are often our brethren, our brothers and sisters from other universes. I think that's lovely. Thank you for sharing that because I've been stuck for, you know, two or three decades saying, why don't you stop? Why do you disappear so quickly? Why are you transparent? Why are you appearing beside my head? You know, all these stupid questions, but I have accepted the fact I'm being visited. And whether they're just checking in, or they're giving me a download, whole other topic, right? Giving me a download, I don't know. Okay, so what do you mean by the download? What do they give you in that regard? Not only abductees are experiencers, I'm sure you, I'm sure many, many of your viewers too. Downloads a ton of information you cannot process in that moment. A ton of information that you have to unravel. I've heard this, Wes, where somebody has described it as a zip file? Like that. Exactly like that. So you've got to unpack it. And the reason we can't experience it all at once, we have threshold levels, we just cannot process it all at once. So it's implanted, so to speak, psychically or mentally. You unwrap it as you're able to as it bubbles to the conscious surface. Could you write a zip file book? Share your download, my downloads by Wes P. Roberts. I now know a lot of people have clearly received downloads, clearly gotten downloads. And then you'll just pop up out of bed one night as I have, as the stuff bubbles to the surface is like, I can't write fast enough to get it down. I can't speak fast enough. It's coming out so quickly. But it's still in there. Yeah. Whether you can transcribe or not, you still retain it. It's like a psychic implant. Oh my gosh, that's so cool. How has your life changed? You have these sessions, I'm sure, myriad of sessions with Leslie, and you are integrating and understanding the awareness is there. And now here you are today with me here. So from where you started until you became integrated with the truth of this information and the history that you've experienced, who are you now compared to before knowing your real story? I think I'm a bit more fearless. I don't, I don't need to have fear about a lot of things. I think I'm more fearless. I think I'm more confident. I think if I had some exotic title, it would be Mr. Reconciliation. What do you mean by that? I've managed to reconcile things in my life that didn't would not be reconciled. They just would not fit. If I was experiencing these things, that excludes that thing, right? Or this kind of spiritual journey that excludes this one, right? Not right. Not right in either case. I've been able to reconcile and understand that a lot of experiences, discrete, unique to you and me, lead to the same places, lead to the same enlightenment. And then once we're enlightened, I feel tasked. I feel it's my job to speak to anybody that will listen. So that's how it's changed me. It's like, I'm comfortable doing that, you know, just calmly telling people what I've been through. And then they'll be shaking their heads saying, I've been through that too. And it's like, see. Do you have a daily ritual, West? Do you have a practice that you use every day to keep yourself well grounded seems like an absurd word in this conversation? You know, healthy and centered and well and all of that. I have a nightly ritual, meditation. You talked about calling on guides and others. And I do this almost every night for various reasons. Sometimes just to thank them. Sometimes ask them for help. Sometimes to say, I'm going through a rough patch. I need your inspiration. It's almost every night. I should, you know, I feel abnormal in that my, my head doesn't just hit the pillow and I fall asleep. Never. It just doesn't happen. I'd like to say it's a morning ritual, but my morning ritual is I hate getting up in the morning. So it's an evening ritual. And what do you next dare to dream, West? This is dare to dream. So what are your future dreams and goals? I would dearly love to have the visibility of our visitors side by side with us. And for one on the say, are you ready to go home? I've been ready for a long time, but that, you know, like other forces at work, it's not your time yet, West. It'll come by. So that might be my dream. Okay. That's a beautiful dream. Your URL for people to find you West g roberts.com. Is there anything else you want to share here at the end? Just that if anyone watching this needs needs a helping hand, I can't figure out your life for you because you'll go about it your own way. But I can give words of encouragement. So you're welcome to contact me at simple West West at West g roberts.com. Kind. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. I have really enjoyed this and folks definitely go out and get his books. It's the it's really worth it. Page Turner, I might say. And I end the show with this quote from Marco Peralta. We are light experiencing the densest dimension and the broadest range of emotions only to learn compassion. Subscribe to the show and tune in next week to this number one transformation conversation, day to dream with Debbie Daschinger. When I will be interviewing yet again on the show, Morgan Daimler. I know you guys loved her because you left so many comments and I know you were buying her books. It was really worth it. Morgan Daimler is one of the world's foremost experts on all things fairy related. You didn't catch her interview last year. You must you're in for a treat. So she'll be back giving us detailed information. It's entertaining. It's mind blowing. Definitely tune in. And if you are in need of relaxation yourself, I sing with a band called Lions of Lira and we do gigs and we also do sound baths, breath work meditation, and we provide healing uplifting musical journeys. Lions of Lira, we've got month monthly sound baths. We've got another one coming up. They are usually held in Los Angeles. However, we are invited to other places and states, et cetera, to do them. You would like us to come to your event. Let us know. You'd like to hear us or sign up so you can be alerted when we've got an event coming out. It's the only time I'll write to you. Go to lionsofliralyra.com. Thanks for joining us today. And remember, don't just dare to dream, dare to make all your dreams this universe and beyond come true and send our benevolent brothers and sisters much love for the great work they do on behalf of this planet and our people.