 Okay. Welcome back to our next hour. Before we move into the second part of exploration, we had looked at assessment in the Stage 1. Are there any quick questions before I move on to the next phase? Yes, Christopher. Yes. Thank you, Pastor. I just wanted to find out, you know, with the inputs that you get out of this exploring stage, does this go into some kind of a template or do you have some kind of a, you know, some format or whatever that, you know, which is then, you know, that can, you know, bring about some level of analysis or whatever. But I mean, in a typical sort of, you know, in, I mean, it's been there for quite some time, but you know, there are all these kind of automated tools, which, you know, allow ones to, you know, do a self-assessment and, you know, have this sort of, you know, get into a format, get into a template and then, you know, be able to, you know, provide some output also. So I just wanted to understand if this is, you know, this has been done by you or this is being done in this kind of session. And the other thing is, are there any tools that are specifically used to, you know, to be able to help in, you know, in this entire process? So there are tools, if you look at it in professional settings, especially in clinics and hospitals and core counseling centers, there are tools that are used. They call it the performers, where you have different, all of this being assessed, okay? And usually a lot of this, like, I'll give you an example of, let's say someone who has depression, okay, and who's clinically depressed. So this gets done, all of this gets done as part of something called as history taking, where you're actually just taking history and that usually is done by, you know, in the initial few sessions, and after which, you know, they are helped with medicines and if there is a requirement for medication, and then they are sent to a counselor, all right? So some of this is already done at one level. But, you know, in settings like ours, where you're working in a smaller counseling center, you don't have any of this. And also, you're also conscious of one time, you're also conscious of the, you know, the urgency that a counselor comes with. So often they do want to just bring up and share very many things. And if you're going to spend one hour, going to be looking at these details, you know, it becomes very cumbersome for them. However, there are some counselors who want that, they're saying, you know, aren't you, don't you want to have further more details about my history? So they themselves will come in and ask you. So we usually play it, depending on the setting that we are in, in more formal settings, it is there are tools that are done. But in settings like us, where there isn't those kind, we don't have such resources available, we do it in our sessions. And we do it, like I said, you know, you weave it in, you let it organically flow in through the conversation. And that's how you pick up those details. Yeah, so that's, that's, that's how we, how it is done. I think someone else had a question. I think Anita had a question. She said, assessment, is it part of exploration or initiation? It's part of exploration. Like I said, it's done alongside with, with your initial conversation. Okay. But it's, it's, it gets interspersed in between with other conversations, like, for example, the, the counselors talking about how much they are having a problem with their parents, maybe that's a good time. You know, after you've reflected their feelings saying, you know, would you please tell me a little bit about your family? How many members are there? What does your dad do? What does your mum do? So you've kind of got that information. And then you're going into something else and maybe something else, an opportunity for another point comes in, and you do that assessment there. Okay. So that's, that's how we move in. Okay. I'll just present my screen, share my screen. Okay. Now, as we, like I said, the exploration is in, we're looking at it as two phases. And this is just for an academic or, you know, for us to understand that there are these two things. But then, like I said, it gets integrated to one another. But for our purpose of learning, it's just for us to know that this is something that we also need to look in. So the first one we looked in was assessment. The second part, we're through problem through exploration, we're looking at identifying what the problem is. So it's called it's in other terms, it's known as problem identification. And I thought it would be easier to take you through that by actually going through a study, you know, or let's go go with an example that we will take through for all the three stages that we, we are looking at exploration, understanding, and action. So this is the case example of Dennis is something that we are going to use in this hour, as well as in our next class to continue on to understand how do we go through this, how does, is a structure form, how do the stages of counseling form? Okay. So let me read this out. Now, this is a study or an example that we bought. And this information has come over many settings. Okay. But nevertheless, I'm bringing it all up to you up front so that we could begin with the, with, with identifying exploring what the problem is. Okay. So let me read this out to you. I think it flows in three or four slides. So if y'all can maybe just taking a screenshot of this will help so that if you want to, you know, go back to it, you have that freedom to actually go back. Okay. So just take a screenshot or take a picture of it and keep it on your phone or whatever device you have so that you will be able to refer back to this multiple times. Okay. So let me just read this for you. Dennis is a 19 year old doing his second year of engineering. He was recently found drinking alcohol on college grounds when confronted about it by a professor. He became extremely argumentative and aggressive and was suspended as a result. Dennis has a history of getting into trouble at college for missing classes, failing to complete assignments and general rudeness to professors. A number of professors have reported being concerned about David's help and well-being and have stated that they were sure that they had smelled alcohol on his breath on several different occasions. They have also noticed a deterioration in his college work as well as his general demeanor. Dennis was referred to a counselor for his drinking and behavior problem. Dennis has admitted that he has been drinking quite a lot and sometimes by himself to get away from things. Next slide. Life areas reveal that Dennis had difficulty in coping with academics. His father's unreal expectations of him fulfilling his dreams of becoming an engineer. He resented his father for this because he secretly desired to be part of a rock band. David was forced to join an engineering college. He was unable to apply his mind to studies. Alcohol became his escape from reality. However, Dennis doesn't see that there is a problem with his drinking and believes that the professors should mind their own business. Would you like me to read the example once more or have all of you got a glimpse of it? I suppose not. He's supposed to be a lot all okay with that. So let's just look at this and from what you have heard, what is it that you all have identified as the presenting problem? What does the presenting problem mean? A problem that he comes to you with. What do you think is the presenting problem? You can write it on the chat. What have you assessed as the presenting problem? Just on from what you're able to read. Don't go too deep into this. Whatever you're able to read. Dennis is not interested in the course. The presenting problem is that's right. He has a problem with alcohol. That's the presenting problem. What he has come with. I know that some of you have written he's not interested in the course. That is not why he has been caught or has been sent to a counselor. Nobody knows that he's not interested in the course. This is something that you've maybe as reading you've found out. So the fact that he is drinking, yes. I think Chai also said the fact that he is aggressive, okay. Argumentative. That's another presenting problem. Any other presenting problems? Anybody else? So okay, just I'm going on to the first slide. So it says he was found drinking alcohol. He's argumentative and aggressive. Getting into trouble at college. Okay. And for his behavior in college and his lack of diligence in things. So these are the different presenting problems. Yeah. Missing classes. Yeah. Okay. Wrong choice of course is not a problem. Remember that that was a that was a what do you say that that was something that his father had forced him. So what I'm saying is just what can you see what is he coming with. Okay. And that's what you're identifying that these are five or six things that we said drinking. We said aggression. We said missing college poor behavior. And we said lack of diligence in academics. So these are the five things that is being presented here with. Okay. All right. Now, even as you identified this, this with the, you know, in the conversation, the first thing that, okay, I think I'll move to the slide so that it becomes easier. Okay. The first thing that you would explore is number one, you know, when if so first things first is you will you will definitely check to see if there is first determine if there is any physical problems that is contributing to this person's difficulty. Like for those of us of, you know, you understand that when someone is into drinking or into alcoholism, there definitely can be physical issues that come by aggression comes because he's intoxicated or aggression can come probably because you know, the alcohol has done some things in his system. And there has been certain physical issues. So first and foremost, especially when it comes with things like this, you determine if there are any physical problems that could be contributing to his difficulty. Okay. And once you've explored, I mean, like, for example, I think this counselor would may have had to get the get the person to meet with a, you know, with a doctor to check if there are any physical issues. So we're hoping that that was done. Okay. And then we get on to the next part of it. Now, when in exploration, as Dennis is sharing these things with you, okay, like, so maybe a conversation would ideally go like this, we'll say, Dennis, you know, you were, you were, okay, I'm being I'm not not being very careful about the words that I'm using. Okay. But in just you're asking him, you know, you've been sent by the the principal to me for help. And I wanted to know what is, you know, what do you think has been the issue. So he may start off with, like, like he said in in the in the previous slide, you know, he said, he doesn't see that there is a problem with his drinking and believes that the professors should mind their own business. Okay, so it's he's in place of denial. I think somebody said that, right? Yeah. So there is he is in a place of denial. And you understand that there is a very huge problem right in front of his eyes, but there is no willingness or that is there is he's still in a place of pre contemplation. So you may need to draw the person to come to a place like that. Okay, so that is not being covered over here, we're only going on from a place, let's say, an individual becomes partially willing or willing to see what is going on. And that pre contemplation to contemplation can also happen. If the counselor, you know, just brings about statements like, like this, you know, I do understand that you're not here, you know, you don't feel that there's a need to talk to me, right. And you feel that everyone should mind their business. And you kind of feel that you've got a hold over your life is that so. Right. So the way that you bring about a communication. So he may say, yeah, I think all of them should mind their business. But yeah, I'm not too sure if I have a complete hold of my life. Right, you've got the person there, you've actually caught them there to to later and begin to explore. Okay, so what you're doing is you as Dennis talks, you are moving into the emotional realm of Dennis. And as he's talking, you're helping him acknowledge whatever emotions that he may be going through or helping him to identify what those initial, those emotions have been. Now, if you look at the second slide, you will see that there is a lot of not the second slide, sorry, the third slide, it will say it will show life areas reveal that Dennis had difficulty in coping with academics, his father who had expectations of him, he wants to these are things that you have explored through your communication, okay, through through your initial understanding of the problem. So it is come by maybe you've asked Dennis, hey, Dennis, would you like to tell me what's going on? So Dennis has responded. Yeah, I came drunk to college or and there are times that I drink often. So you may explore a little bit about that. Okay, and ask about the drinking pattern or the drinking habit. And he may say, yeah, I've been drinking for the last two years every day when I come to college. Okay, so he's given you that kind of an information. And then the next problem next question would would be is, you know, how do you see your drinking pattern? What do you think has led you this place to to come to a place of drinking this far. So then he may bring about some of this information, okay, that you know, his father's has expectations of him, all of that or all of that that you're seeing on the slide, the slide that says life areas reveal that Dennis had difficulty in coping with academics. So he's he's bought about a lot of this information. Now, once he brings about this information, remember again, you're weaving this in, okay, it's not that okay, he's finished information. Now I'll get into clarifying his problem feelings. But as he's probably talking, so he's saying, I have never my, you know, I've been drinking because I'm just unhappy with with college, I don't like college, all right. So what you're doing here is you are entering into the frame of reference, you entered entering into the emotional place of the counseling, and acknowledging that there are these negative emotions. And you're helping to zero down on the dominant emotions that the that the counseling may be feeling. So, you know, as an example here, it's written, I feel disappointed, because I cannot follow my dream. So what you're doing is you're drawing it drawing out. So he says, I hate college, I never wanted to come to engineering, I want to do something else. Right. So that's what your counseling said. So what you do is you, you respond and say, you sound very disappointed that you were not able to follow what you wanted, isn't it? What is it that you'd like to do? So he'd say, you know, I wanted, I wanted to join, join a rock band. And my father was so obstinate about it. And I, you know, he, he, he doesn't even care, he doesn't even hear me out. And that's, that's when you say, you, you know, you, you kind of sound very angry at your father or you far, you, you have some sort of a bitterness against him about not hearing you out or not allowing you to do what you want. So do you see that he said this, and he comes to a place of being able to clarify what could be these dominant feelings. So there is disappointment, there's anger, there's aggression, there's resentment. So another example, he may say, you may be questioning him about the aggression, okay, saying, you know, what the professor told me was that, you know, you got very aggressive with him when he questioned you. I do see that you were really angry. What were you really angry about? So he may say, you know, I don't like authority, you know, they only have, they only have something to dictate to me. So there you say, you know, you feel, you know, you feel angry about the way people don't, don't hear you out or do not have, do not allow you or permit you to, to explain your part of it. So what you're doing is through the conversation, through the exploration, you are picking up certain feelings that the, that Dennis is going through. Why is this important? And why does this become important at the very first stage of your exploration is because any emotions that are not acknowledged can cause severe trouble. If a feeling or an emotion that is not acknowledged when you are not able to label it or when you're not able to see or, or if Dennis cannot see that you have not understood what he is going through, then he doesn't feel understood. He's not in a place of exploring what is going on. So the very first step in identifying the problem is as you identify the problem, you're also coming to a place of beginning to clarify these feelings. So you see Dennis's emotions. It's argumentative. He's aggressive. He's got very poor skills with, with those around with his professors, with his, with his teachers, with his parents. Maybe there is some sense of a, you know, there is an issue even with his intelligence, his, you know, that, that it is not strong in certain areas. You find that there is probably low self-esteem. You see that he has a problem with authority. There is self-denial. All this can be coming out as a result of those negative emotions that are stuck inside, you know, that anger, that bitterness, the resentment, all of that comes out as a result of that. And if in, as you're identifying it, this is something that you need to do to be able to help clarify these feelings that he's feeling and bring about a label to that. So the first part of it, as you're exploring the entire situation, you are coming to a place of also drawing out and clarifying these feelings. Now going back to what we were doing about empathizing, it becomes very, very significant because until Dennis or any person feels that the counselor has stepped in to my problem, they will begin to see you as somebody else. Now the professor, the father, maybe other friends or a general social circle has shunned him and has not come to a place of understanding what he's going through. Rather, everyone pounces on him for his drinking, for his lack of attendance, for his lack of working out in college, for his behavior. Everyone has pounced and said, you know, this is not the way you've got to change. But here as a counselor, you've moved in to really look at what are the feelings he's going through. And that becomes so important in progressing into the next phase of to understand this next thing. What is the goal-oriented behavior? Or what becomes the problem behavior? Now, if you, when you look at Dennis, sorry, yeah, so when you're, when you're looking at Dennis, what you're doing is, so once you have an idea of his general emotions, now remember, this does not take place in five minutes. This could probably take you, you know, many sessions to really understand the depth of this. I mean, he's not going to tell you all of this in your first session, but it goes on for many sessions. And probably you may need to go back to check if there are any other dominant emotions that you have. So once there is a good understanding of a dominant emotion, is the next thing that you explore is discover what could be the goal, the goal for the counselling. So what does that mean? The identifying the goal-oriented behavior or the problem behavior. So when you're examining the goal, it's you're looking at the counsellor's behavior and finding out the chosen goal that lies behind it. Now, what is the goal here? The goal is, I need something to help me cope with whatever I'm going through. Now, that's become his goal. His goal that keeps the behavior is finding something to cope and that has become, in this case, alcohol. So you identify what has become that specific motivation for him to remember, it's not the need. We haven't come to the need. We've just come to a place of finding what is, what is he going after? So the goal is to feel better. The goal is to just run away from the reality that he may be facing and to get to alcohol. So you, so as you see here that he needs something good to help him cope with his current disappointment, to cope with the dominant emotion, to cope with the disappointment, to cope with the resentment, to cope with the anger. So taking to this alcohol or consuming alcohol is a way to get rid of the disappointment or get rid of the anger. So this, this is his belief. This is his thought. Okay. And if you see that taking to alcohol also becomes an additional goal to get, to get one with his father, to get you to get revenge back on his father. Why? Because then he's not fulfilling the dream of his father. The dream of his father is that he does, he becomes an engineer. But the goal is to not do that. I don't want to become an engineer. I want to rebel against my father and, you know, and also probably rebel against the college authorities. And as a result, having, having his goal met that he will not do what his father wants to do. Okay. So you identify what is the goal that has helped to cope with that dominant emotion. So you identify the behavior, the goal oriented behavior or the goal or the other problem behavior, you're identifying what is it that is leading to this to the alcohol is leading to the fact. I'm sorry, the, the negative emotions are leading to the fact that he needs alcohol to take care of what he is going through. Okay. So you, you go through your dominant, you identify those dominant emotions. Second is you identify the goal oriented behavior. The next thing that you would, you would begin to start doing is to identify the beliefs that the counseling holds. One is the beliefs and also to look at what are some of the wrong methods or the erroneous methods that are lying under the problem. So you identify the counseling's wrong beliefs and also bring about the wrong strategies that are underlying this problem. So what are you doing in exploration is also to understand what are the wrong thoughts that is driving the counseling towards this goal he is pursuing. So look at the thoughts that's written here. Okay. My father does not love me. He doesn't care about my wishes. Right. So that is a belief that brings about the emotion, which is maybe anger, which brings about the problem behavior, which is alcohol. All right. Or the belief that alcohol will help me get over my pain and disappointment. So there is a belief that alcohol is what is going to take care of the problem emotion or that dominant emotion. All right. And that's, and that problem continues to remain so or the next belief being a rock band singer will make me a fulfilled person. So these could, these, these could be certain thoughts that the person is engaging in that makes them perpetuate that problem behavior. So in his mind, only if I am a rock singer, will I be the right person or a fulfilled a person with purpose? Okay. And that in, and because he cannot do that or because he doesn't have the means of doing it, there is aggression, there is anger, there is sadness. And in order to deal with that, the, there is a problem behavior, which is alcoholism there. Okay. So once you have an idea of the wrong goal, the goal here, like we said is going back to going to alcohol, you are able to build a clear understanding as to what he believes in to be the root to that problem. Okay. So if you've understood that, that he chooses alcohol in order to get rid of these dominant feelings, and then you are able to come to a place of understanding what are the beliefs that actually perpetuate these feelings and these, these behavior, go back to what we learned about where we said that thoughts lead to emotions, emotions lead to behavior. Right? So this is, this is a very good example to show you that because of the thoughts he's engaging in, it leads to a place of a disappointment and anger which leads to a place of alcoholism and what he's taken after. So through what you are doing is you are helping him identifying one, what are the emotions and looking at what are the thoughts behind these emotions. So he may say, I feel extremely angry at my father. So maybe your, your, you know, your responses, you know, I can see how, how strong you are about the way that you feel about your father. What is it that your father, you know, or what is, what happened with your father or what is it that your father did, or what is it that you think about your father that has bought about this. So then that's when he would probably bring up some statements like this, you know, my father does not love me, he doesn't care about my wishes. So maybe the next, you know, the next response would be you feel unloved by your father, you feel he doesn't look into what you've designed, what, what have been some of those unmet things for you. And so then he brings back, brings back some of them. My father wants me to become an engineer and I don't want to, I want to ensure that I don't get there. So, you know, exploring again, and then helping him bring about that belief system. Okay. So that saying that that many, many talking about the thoughts you're bringing about, you feel that your father wants you to get, to be an engineer, whereas he has kept you away from fulfilling your dream. Is that so? You know, so then we begin to develop and understand what have been the predominant thought feelings that he has, the thoughts that he has. And this is some of the things that we have zeroed down on, that this becomes the predominant basic belief in which he develops certain strategies to build by. From here, we get to the next one where you assist Dennis to personalize the problem, to make the problem his own. So what you're doing here is you're helping Dennis become, understand the problem in a way in helping him see how he may be contributing to part of that problem. How is he contributing or how is, how, what are his contributions? I'm trying to get another word for contribution, but I can't. Okay. What are his, what is there for him to look into that seems unfulfilled, that is making, making the problem whole. So, so what generally happens, like I did say, is that often, councillors look for somebody else to throw blame on, to make it an external locus of control. That is, someone else is the issue to my problem. Okay. And in, like in Dennis's case, it could be both ways, right? It could be that the father definitely has, has a very strong expectation of him that could be there. Okay. However, the effective way of dealing with it is for the councillor or for Dennis to begin to look at how there is a part that he is playing in this entire problem. And looking at how much he can do something to lessen this problem for himself. Okay. So the, the, the word personalizing is to help the, means the, to help the councillor own up the problem, become aware that he is also a part of the problem. He is also contributing to the problem. Okay. And that happens when you have been able to identify the emotion, those dominant emotions, the goal be, goal oriented behavior, the, the thought believes and then you come, you know, with a statement like this, you know, you sound, you seem to be disappointed that you were not allowed to follow your dream and you need something to help you cope. Although you're aware that alcohol may not be the answer, but you would like to work on something else, or you've come to a place where Dennis actually says this and that this is at the words of Dennis, I am disappointed that I was not allowed to follow my dream. Okay. And I need something to cope. Disappointed is the feeling not allowed to follow my, my dream. And I need something to cope that becomes a problem behavior. Although I know alcohol is not the answer, there has, you've bought about the basic belief that alcohol cannot be a solution to your problem, but I can't help it anymore. So he's come to a place and saying, yes, I know all of this, but I don't know how to take this forward. I don't know how I can do this forward. Okay. So you bought Dennis to a place where he, he comes to a place of personalizing it, although what you need to engage him to do is to understand it and work through that. Okay. Or he may say something like, I don't feel fulfilled in my dreams for my life. So I'm trying to forget the pain by drinking. So he, he's owned it up. He says, I don't feel fulfilled. So the best way I can deal with my problem is to drink alcohol and forget my pain. Okay. So what you've come to a place is to a place of helping him identify that this is where he's at. The problem is where the, sorry, the finding, personalizing is where he's at. Now from here, what you are next going to do is to help him personalize the problem and the goal together. So what are you doing here is you're helping him assume responsibility, but you're also helping him get the right goals. You've got him to be responsible saying that, yes, this is not the way I should be. Yes, I agree. I'm disappointed. I agree. I have anger. Okay. And this, my goal of alcohol is not the right way, but I want to do something else. So you are encouraging the, encouraging Dennis to be able to fit this in together. So what happens here is you, this, this act of doing this, getting the counseling to personalize the problem and the goal makes them aware of one, what is the part that they play and second helps them to start assuming responsibility or helps them to start bringing about the change or a change of the problem into a right goal into a right kind of goal. Not the wrong goal, but into a right kind of goal. So if you look at the example there, it says here, Dennis comes to a place of saying, I realize that alcohol is not the solution to take away my anger and disappointment or resentment, but working to pursue my dream while I train to be an engineer. So do you see here that through, through the exploration here in itself, by helping him see what his wrong beliefs are, by helping him clarify those dominant feelings, he's come to a place of saying, alcohol cannot be the reason. I'll have to look at something else. Now over here, he's decided that I can pursue my dream, but I need to also do this. I need to be able to do this, to bring about a new goal. So your entire phase of problem identification starts and gets maintained with the beginning of helping them clarify what their feelings are, understanding what their belief systems are, helping them to personalize that, hey, this is my problem. And thirdly, coming to a place of saying, okay, how do I manage my emotion? There's a wrong belief and wrong thought and establishing a new goal for myself. So that's what works through in the first stage of exploration. All right, there's so much of silence, I don't even know if anybody's around. I think there are some some questions here. Let me just think Prabhakar has asked. Okay, Chris, please explain what are the physical issues contributing to his drinking that are investigated by a doctor. Okay, so for example, if there are if there is aggression, if there is one is aggression, one could be cognitive issues. So for someone who may be drinking significantly, or who may be into drugs significantly, can have aggressive behavior. And, you know, that in its so it may not be a behavioral problem, it could be a problem related to alcohol, that is, you know, if he continues to drink, it affects the brain and there can be behavioral issues. So the the the first and foremost thing is maybe getting him getting him in for detoxification, so that you can eliminate some of those those issues, you know, if you're if you're having a person who who's who has been drinking a lot and it is affected the faculties of the of their cognitions, then you need to get them treated for physical problems. Okay, so that that's with that area. Beth, you said how can we confidently think my father doesn't love me is a wrong belief? What if it is true? Do we need to explore other aspects of the father-son relationship to to identify sorry father-son relationship to identify if his belief is justified. Okay. It, it seems to me that the root of the issue would be his feeling of broken relationship with his father. The career issue is just evidence that causes him to believe he is in love. Okay, so there are very many ways that you can bet that's that's excellent. I mean, that that shows just you know, you're really thinking. So there can be many ways that this that this case can go. At this point, we've just we've just taken it in one trajectory so that it's easier to understand. But your question of do we need to explore other aspects of the father-son relationship? Yes. Yes, for the very fact that the father and son have not been able to come to a communication about what he needs in itself appears as if there is a strained relationship. So that is again another area of that that you need to explore. However, when you're dealing this with Dennis himself, it does not change the truth that that there is some part that he plays in the way that this this problem has perpetuated. So the way that he's thought about his father, maybe it is it is a right belief, maybe it's a wrong belief. But how is it that we could help to create a different system of belief? Okay, now all because my father doesn't love me, do I choose to ruin my life and take alcohol? So what we are what what what we would probably be end up doing if we follow that kind of a thought pattern is that we're saying, hey, Dennis, you're perfectly all right in where you are. Your father doesn't believe in you. He doesn't love you. And if this is only the way that you need to cope, well, that's how it is. So what you're helping him saying, okay, there is a belief that is there, maybe that becomes a belief that you can't dispute. Agreed, you can't dispute that belief because maybe the father really hates it. Let's suppose we found out and figured that the father really hates him. But how is he helping to deal with a, have I lost my connection? Or am I here? Ma'am, we can hear you. Okay, yeah, so like I was saying, there may be multiple things that they may need to be explored. However, it doesn't change the fact that Dennis, you're helping Dennis personalize the problem, helping Dennis change his wrong goal into a right goal, whatever the situation or the concerns may be with his father. Now, if there are issues with his father, that definitely is something that requires to be explored, right? The relationship with the father is something that needs to be explored. I completely agree there. Here, for the sake of the case, we didn't want to make it too complicated. We've just followed one line of pattern so that it makes it simpler for you to understand the stages of counseling. Anybody else has any other questions? So we looked at exploration today. So keep at where we stopped because next week we are going to get into understanding where we are going to look at the new goal that he wants to look at is to do something else in order to feel fulfilled in his life or in order to manage that anger to do something else. So we're going to be going on into the second part only next week. So keep fresh what we have discussed today. Any questions before we end? Okay, I think that's it. So what we are saying now is that whether the belief is right or not, the coping strategy Dennis is using is harmful for him and we deal with that first. Absolutely. That's right. So we've come to problem number two if there is an issue with the father and the son. That's something that becomes another problem, right? And we help to deal with that. But what we're looking over here is to help Dennis cope with what he's going through and how he can come to a place of restoration. So you pick that perfectly, Beth. Okay, any other question? Okay, I think we can let's stop for today. May I request somebody to please pray before we close? Okay, I'll close with the word of prayer. Heavenly Father, we thank you once again, Lord, that you are bringing knowledge to us. Father, even as we stand in the midst of helping people, Father, may we deal with them as they are as a way that you look at them, Father, because you are concerned not just about the problems people are in, but Lord, the damage it brings to their souls, it brings to their thoughts, it brings to the way that they own up Father. Lord, we pray even as we learn these skills that we would you would give us the ability to to meet with people at their point of need, especially to help them to come to a place of responsibility, Lord. Lord, we see that all of this is like repentance, it's like confession, it's like owning up Lord to who they are and they may be in Father. We pray that you will enhance this knowledge for us even as we work with others and even as we look at ourselves Lord. Lord, we pray in situations that we are in that we would be willing to look at what we feel about it, the wrong thoughts we may have of it and the way that we are so quick to blame others. We pray, Master, that you will give us the ability to to take onus, to take responsibility for what may be sin in our lives, call it as it is and ask for the presence of the Holy Spirit to help us Lord renew and transform us Father. Thank you for this lesson because it does so many things for us in in our own lives, Lord. I pray that this would be deeper lessons for us as we deal with our own issues. I thank you for each student here. I pray that you clarify and consolidate whatever we have learned today for each of them, bring understanding in greater ways. We ask all these things in your precious name. Amen. God bless. Thank you so much. We shall meet next week. God bless you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye everyone. Thank you. Bye-bye.