 All right. Hello everyone and welcome to the TGC conference session on trans non-binary and gender non-conforming artists telling our stories. I am so happy to be here with my fellow trans artists and we're here today to talk about how our stories are evolving and becoming more popular in the mainstream and the challenges and joys that we're facing in our industry in our lives and and the advantages that we face during this time and the disadvantages that we face all the time and I'm just excited to get to know all the folks that are here in the room with us today and especially in this time and especially in this time when we see a huge movement for Black Lives Matter and even yesterday in New York we saw a huge march for Black trans lives. It was really exciting to see large groups of people speaking out for Black lives and for Black trans lives and so I'm happy today to have voices of artists who can who can speak to that too and so as a white trans person I'm going to stop talking and and pass the baton to my other amazing fellow artists who are here today to talk about their stories and and and I would like to introduce myself first I guess a little bit is my name is Andy Lee Carter and I'm a playwright composer and lyricist and I'd like to introduce my co-moderator Mary. Thank you hi everyone um yeah I think you know we're excited to have this conversation today with you all and really to hear from folks who are watching and the participants as well like what your questions are so just to kind of do a quick overview of the structure we're going to spend some time in the beginning learning about who we all are in our you know our intros a little bit about our background with like theater and artistic work and then obviously probably what brought us to this journey in some way and then we're going to go into two prompts that are pretty open-ended share those we're going to ask those questions we're going to spend about 30 minutes doing that and then we're going to have actually 15 minutes at the end specifically for you all as participants as audience to ask questions to us here and so that's kind of the name of the game we're going to go ahead and do intros as well so I will share a little bit about more about myself afterwards but my name is Marie Jensen pronouns are she her I'm located in Kansas City Missouri so yeah so definitely Midwest I spent about 10 years in Chicago and I'm from St. Louis originally and so name pronouns location identify as a trans woman or a woman of trans experience and in terms of my racial ethnic identity my dad is white my mom's family is Mexican I'm second generation and then far back from there there's Lebanese as well so that's a little bit about sort of my identity I would love for the panelists to share a little bit about who you are and then also like what brings you to this work as like trans artists as trans theater artists so let's go ahead and kick it off who wants to go first and also as we do that for both our panelists and our attendees in the chat you can maybe check in with how we're feeling today like a one word check in just to say one word you can pop in the chat like how you're feeling as we're introducing ourselves so how about Ian would you like to introduce yourself sure hi everyone my name is Ian field steward I use they them she her pronouns I'm a black queer trans feminine storyteller working at the intersection of theater and activism I am also the founder of the ochre project we are and collective that hires black trans chefs to cook for black trans people in their homes or in community centers if they're currently experiencing homelessness obviously we're not able to do that work right now so we've created the nina pop mental health recovery fund and the tony mcdate mental health recovery fund dedicated to providing one time 100 free mental health therapy sessions for all black trans people who are protesting or mourning the violence that our community faces I am an actress a singer a dancer a playwright and I am very tired great um azure okay great hi um I'm azure D i was born lean I'm looking at my notes here my pronouns are he hem and they them I'm located in Brooklyn New York right now um and I ideas a theater maker I'm the founder of roots and river productions which is a production company that focuses on the work of black artists particularly queer and trans artists so that's a thing I work primarily as a playwright right now but I'm also a performer occasionally I direct I've also been known to show up in other people's disciplines so I've done some dance work video work like whatever if you're trying to pay I might could do it amazing and um last but not least Dylan um hello my name is Dylan Iroegas my pronouns are he hem his or else Spanish I am currently calling in from the Massachusetts and Wampanoag lands also known as Boston Massachusetts um although I am originally from the central Texas area known as both the Tunkawan and Kualtikwan lands I am of both mixed Kualtikwan and white settler in ancestries um and as a theater maker um I am I usually just say theater maker because just like Azure said it's like if you pay me enough I can probably do it but I am primary actor director and playwrights and currently I am the fellow for the HowlRound theater commons amazing also because I forgot to say it um I am on Occupied the Napae land otherwise known as New York City thank you as am I also my racial identity is black I'm black y'all I'm black American my people are from the south I'm from round about these your parts thank you amazing thank you so much for sharing who you are and what your work is um for your introductions to yourselves um so uh we'd like to open up with uh some do you want to share a little bit about sort of your background and oh yeah I guess I I mean I talked about the panel but I didn't really say about me how are you I'm I'm Andy Lee um my pronouns are he they and I am um a recent graduate of the NYU musical theater writing program um so I've got a very expensive uh degree in an industry that is like on pause for the next infinity so that's great um but I'm excited to be uh working on uh different platforms and in different ways um and uh and I've actually had some projects that have gotten more press during this time than I did when I was in the real world um and I've been um uh do it flexing my muscles more as a composer since I've gotten out of school where I was a words person um so uh and my work focuses a lot on identity and um the trans experience thank you thank you yeah um again I'm Marique uh I spent most of my adult life in Chicago um I was involved with about face youth theater when I was younger so lgbt theater company um doing like ethnographic storytelling and that kind of was a catalyst for me in terms of looking at how to do storytelling work within communities that I have membership in um so I uh really as an anthropologist as well I'm an artist anthropologist um activist uh hey intern at about face Gregory um uh I you know ethnographic ethnographic uh storytelling is something I'm really interested in and so actually double majored in women and gender studies and uh anthropology and part of my thesis was doing a longitudinal ethnographic study on um uh self identified a feminine gay men in America that was a project called 50 faggots and so it was a documentary series that aired back in 2010 and then from that I actually started my own lgbt multimedia company um and doing storytelling work and so when I moved to Kansas City um that actually became really critical in a time where I arrived to build a multi statewide lgbt with the anti-violence program um because I've been doing anti-violence work as well it's part of my background with young people and in four months into arriving there was the first of a wave of homicides towards trans and non-binary people of color and so storytelling actually became something that was really important to activating communities and also building programs and summits um and and getting the media to just respond to the violence that was happening um so I'm sure I can share more about that at some point too um but I'm really excited to hear from you all so yeah thank you Andy go ahead I didn't mean to cut you off I just want to thank you I appreciate sharing what what you're up to as well um and uh yeah so the first question besides introducing ourselves that I wanted to ask is um what are some of the biggest challenges that you are facing in telling your stories and what are the biggest joys so it's a two a two-parter question that I'd like to put forward to you all um and anyone can go in any order there's not a so feel free to I'll take the lead can you repeat the question one more time yes the question are what are the biggest challenges you face in telling your stories and what are your biggest joys there are challenges to telling a story as a black trans person in any space because um we face things like such as what I'm facing this morning with uh my landlord continuing to threaten me and my roommates with police if we do not um acquiesce to certain desires there's the reality of walking down the street of a black trans woman as a black trans woman and sort of the difficulties that that faces um so there are very real everyday struggles to um creating and producing uh and especially in a capitalist society that asks us to constantly be producing and creating even if we don't have the capacity for it um so I think that that is that's the first struggle that has to be named as far as just means and modes of survival for black trans people and I think it's pretty um it's a pretty large struggle to creating and generating narrative work um as far as institutionally I think that um as an actress I often face the the difficulty of trying to um be seen genuinely just be seen in the room for roles that I'm right for um whether it be like I I'm a non-binary queer woman um but my non-binary-ness is often invisible to many people uh and due to you know since beginning medical transitioning have often just been read as a read as a woman um which is totally fine by me uh but I think that uh something that is a bit of a struggle is trying to like walk into rooms and ask to be seen for roles that aren't necessarily written as trans um which is not to say that those roles that are specifically written as trans are lesser than I'm perfectly happy to play trans the rest of my life because I think that trans is um my transness makes me closer to divinity as does my blackness so I have no issue with you know I don't feel I need to leave either of them outside of the room uh there is but there is also the reality that um that we that until until the industry shifts and more roles are created our divinity cannot be represented if we're not allowed to take up space wherever we deserve to take up space women of all experiences deserve to have a shot at that audition that space um and so those are sort of the the challenges that I faced as far as what um the I think you also asked what what has made it easy to produce work is that right what what brings you joy what brings me joy what what brings me joy is um I I derive great joy from um pissing off white people for white cishets for the sake of my black trans community and my family um it brings me great joy to um occupy a space and to be um a loud problematic and annoying black woman refuses to be silenced that's beautiful thank you um great that same question to any anyone else who wants to jump um okay I'll go so um challenges gosh sometimes it feels like you know working in and loving the theater industry is nothing but challenges because of the way that it's been set up and the you know like the way that our society runs so you know from something as simple as my racist high school never casting me in a single play despite the fact that I auditioned for almost every single one all four years um and then on my last day at the school the director of the program had the nerve to catch me on my way to my car and say oh I'm just so sorry it never worked out with any of those shows um yeah so so there's that um I guess you know what I've been grappling with is what success looks like you know when somebody decides that they're into your work into your story um you know generally that means that some white person somewhere said yes and convince some other white people to say yes and give you resources um but then what does that mean you know like are they there to consume my work to consume me um you know like what does it mean when people who have no sort of relationship to my work or the identities I present decide to speak on that work as if they were some sort of authority you know and make some sort of judgment um so I think that for me a big challenge has been um being able to enjoy a certain amount of success as an artist and still be able to connect to my communities right because that's that's the thing that brings me the most joy is being able to curate a space and curate um a feeling right um any space that I'm putting together as a producer you know I do my best to make it a healing and joyful space um one in which people are challenged to bring their artistic best you know but also understand that they are being brought into the room as they are because they are more than enough and that's what I was lucky enough to experience with Daniel Alexander Jones and Sharon Bridgeforth when I still lived in Austin Texas you know a moment of just being brought into the space and being challenged um lovingly you know so you can cry all you want but you'd better stay in lines now come on and let's have some chicken you know like that's how I was brought up as a theater artist and that's still what I strive for um you know so I guess this tension between like artistry and community you know like what does that what does that mean um that's a challenge on the joy oh I have one more joy I love getting to pay my people I love getting to pay my people any time you can ask anyone I stay on that pentacles magic I'm on the hotline I'm a grant maker I'm an administrator I'm asking where the money at where the money coming who can we give the money to black people queer people black trans people I love paying my people and you should too do yes very true um Dylan yeah um so I think one of my biggest challenges so far is um going from a very specific localized theater scene of like being in Austin because I lived there for 10 years before moving to Boston and so kind of going from like such a localized scene like making sure local voices are heard and then now being a little bit more on the national international scale um and trying to see where I can allocate the resources and um all of my knowledge sharing out into the broader community um and trying to you know for keep keep doing like commenting and and making sure that everything is shared within everyone um that that's a very like personal thing that I'm or business wise of of a job of what I'm having and then as far as like actual work um is decentering my voice um in a way of like my of acting of my playwriting of like yes I do have things to say and like having my intersection marginalized identities do matter but then also understanding that like I'm not the only voice in the room that needs to be heard others do as well um and learning from devising experiences and um trainings and stuff like that and so just kind of like shifting and essentially decolonizing my brain and like not having that shame like like you were saying Azure um of of having these experiences with everybody and making sure yeah we're all doing the work um and not yeah not holding onto that shame and trying to focus more on the decolonization and and the people and yeah everyone that's a long run on sentence I will end it there um yeah and then I guess like a big part of that joy then is like realizing that I am a part of a broader and larger community that because like in in in my home hometown in my college town in my artistic home a lot of the times I was that only person in the room who held multiple marginalized identities and so it wasn't often the case like I won't say like I was the only one blah blah like that wasn't true there were often others but it was more often than not unfortunately um and so then um coming into a broader perspective of like oh wait I am a part of a broader community a broader artistic community and I'm able to reach out to others to make these connections and for us to be able to help each other um like it succeed and be the best people that we can can be and to live the fullest lives that we can thank you so much for sharing that so y'all were so motivating that Chad meanwhile has started a movement and I just want to just share his comment because I love it he said can I suggest that those of us who are benefiting from the honesty intelligence of these artists donate to their organizations so there is a call out already the plate has been passed for potentially some fun so um I think at the end we can certainly share that but I would say y'all get your links together and get ready to drop them because at some point we definitely want to take advantage of that and thank you for sharing that's really important to support trans artists and I also just want to highlight on the fact that you all spoke about this amazing resilience that you're doing where you are basically creating these paths and these avenues you're like it doesn't exist I may not have necessarily got it in the full way that I needed but I'm doing it for my community and I just want to like really get props for that and share that that in of itself is is phenomenal and amazing so thank you for doing that work all right so do you guys have any questions for each other based off like what y'all shared is there anything that you wanted to know more about or you're like ooh let's touch on that more there were some uh it definitely some of the stuff you said resonated with folks in the chat so I just wanted to kind of highlight on that as well I will say it's a bit of an unfair advantage because I know both both of these lovely humans personally so well that's good yeah what do we need to know what's the question yeah yeah I just met Dylan um this month this past month because um he was in a reading of one of my plays and so that's been really lovely getting to connect across you know cyberspace but I also I just want to touch on what Ian said at the beginning you know I'm tired you know people like emailing me asking me for things please just think think about it you know like why now is this important now is this a significant opportunity which includes the question how much am I paying right and how much work are you actually asking me to do because I don't know how y'all feel but like as a playwright I have work that's like ready for you to look at you know I've got enough stuff in my archive that you can be consuming my work without me having to do anything right now right now I'm trying to get you know a chili radiano burrito and like chill out maybe with a neighbor a modelo and just like try to to you know weather this craziness and also support my community as best I can um I guess the next thing that I'll say is that I think as far as um I I am definitely moving into um a place where the only modes and modalities that I'm really interested in are solution-based in regards to at least anti-racism work I think that the reality of undoing racism is that it requires me or the reality of undoing transphobia the undoing of these things the reality of that is that it requires me to sit at the table with people that I do not consider to be part of my community nor do I consider to be the people that I want to be speaking to my um and so I think that the reality of asking any black person to sit at the table and undo racism and the reality of having any trans person sit at the table and ask them to undo transphobia when both of these things are institutions that were never created for or by us and are certainly not upheld by us um although there are some who try um you know uh I think that it is important that we recognize that um we have we have reached a point where conversation is no longer necessary and actionable steps is all that's required because the reality is that it's just not that difficult um it's as simple as asking institutions the simple question of will you commit as a theatrical company to casting and hiring 50 to 75 trans artists around across the board in your creative teams as well as in your in in the in the actors that you hire are you willing to create a community board that has equal voting status to your current board of directors who will be able to who will who is made up of the majority black queer trans people the the communities that you say you serve do they have an active role and voice and vote in how you move and and do your work the questions are very simple and the solutions are actually quite simple as well um so I think that I am reaching a point where conversation is no longer interesting to me the only conversation I'm interested in having is where I ask the question are you willing to do this are you willing to undo to do this and if the answer is no then I need to go um and so I think that uh I just want to bring that into the space that I think that as we are seeing um in the streets and um I can't speak to the politic of everyone gathered both in the comments and in here but um my personal politic is that I value life over buildings and so if if cities must be brought to the ground then they must be brought to the ground because human life is too important and I don't care if it's one life or 17 lives I don't require footage I don't require links or articles to tell me that institutions need to be brought to the heels so for me I think that this moment that we are in both in recognizing um how our government has handled um COVID-19 as well as um I mean highlighting the fact that curfews only became a thing once black people returned to the streets um I think that uh seeing how action is is operating now I think that we in the theatrical community need to follow suit and we need to have actionable conversations and action oriented conversations that are that if they do not result in action are kept very brief and certainly do not involve anyone like me well you're ready for your Ted talk thank you that was amazing that was the people are living in the chat box so thank you thank you thank you for sharing that that was so so important um you all have touched on this um and so I wanted just to kind of expand on Andy and I were actually was a question that we had come up with that it works really well so the next question we were going to ask you all would be what types of trans and gender expansive art and narratives do we want to see flourish in the theater and artistic communities so I'll go ahead and drop that question as well in the chat box but again what types of trans and gender expansive art um and narratives do we want to see flourish in our communities so whoever wants to take it over you all have been really talking about that already yeah um so I'll take a crack at this um I just want to sort of circle back around to what I was saying before and I think also touch on what yam was saying you know when we say flourish like what do we mean um when I first moved to New York City in 2009 I just came you know as a 24 year old with my suitcase and was like I want a life in the theater you know and then I realized that I was not being nearly specific enough you can have any kind of life in the theater you can be selling those candy bars you could be cleaning up those Hamilton cups that people throw on the ground you could be you know doing any kind of work so I had to get much more specific about what I wanted to do and um I think in that way you know I've realized that my ask as a playwright has to be more specific so no I don't just want a production like I need you like this is a theater takeover now if you're doing my work like we're in here right so like I'm getting the director that I want like I'm getting the producers that I want we're connecting to the community like I need to see because I'm a spreadsheet queen you know like that's the thing people always they don't recognize who they're talking to I'm like honey I know how to work the box office software I need to see all the printouts I need to see the manifest where the coupon you know codes that you're using how are you distributing those like what are the postcards what are these little stickers that you're putting on there I need to see the spreadsheet like how did you get these numbers etc etc like you know and for better or for worse I learned to do that because of lack of resources on my end but um you know when we're talking about putting on art and the art is flourishing again this needs to be a takeover I need to see my people in the house like regularly and I don't mean like a little sprinkling like a chocolate chip cookie no like this is this is a whole new situation and you need to embrace that be ready for that and joyful about that right like that's that's what's happening if this is the work that you really say that you love and you want to invest in then you need to be ready to become back right isn't that what we do here in the theater so again yeah I mean I've been saying for years because of my background in arts administration one programmatic year one fiscal year that's all you need to make a change right so if I keep hearing you saying the same things again and spending it and it's been honestly more than like half a fiscal year then like you're really not about that business you're not about that work and I just need to see like I need to see that it's real for you before I can invest because my time is too precious my energy is too precious um and so are my people's right like I'm not going to drag them into your space so that they can have a whack-ass time so that you can you know victimize them tell them they can't use the bathroom that day or whatever it is um so yeah everything needs to be together any anything to add to that from yeah yeah um so definitely yeah echoing on the on the takeover thing but also like don't make us be your tokens like don't like have your like oh we did the trans place so we're done um and not do like any of the work behind of like what is the actual experience for trans folks when they enter into your spaces like I mean also like one like I don't care about your spaces like I'm trying to create my own goodbye but if we are going to be in them yeah make sure that the the full experience is there so that the takeover is there so I definitely like do that but also like don't have it be just the one show like Ian was saying like you need to make it like more of your um uh like yeah 50 to 75 percent of the people working for you of the people who are consistently with you like this isn't just like a one time okay yeah we did and we're done pat on the back here we go like no that is not going to like create systemic change as we know as we have been saying and so yeah to like have those like actionable actionable things happen um and then like also like on the other side of like wanting to see like if it's flourishing like if say everything everything is met we are like living in a wonderful wonderful like oasis of everything is perfect um I would love to see shows about mundanity like trans folks just living their lives joyously and just going through their day to day and like maybe the biggest thing that happens is like oh this person is going through a breakup but it's not necessarily about their transness it's just about whatever it is because we have plenty of white shows that are doing that we have plenty of other like cishet shows that are doing that why like why do all of the trans shows and all of the like trans black trans shows and the poc trans shows all have to be centered around our transition and why do we all have to die or suffer the most no we don't we need to like celebrate and have our joy just as much as like any other shows can have um I will say that I am craving shows that encourage euphoria and deconstructs dysphoria I crave shows that that remember that sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things um I crave seeing two black black trans women making out on stage and being in love on stage I crave seeing um a black trans man you know face face off with you know an aggressor and beat that aggressor down I crave um seeing a black trans woman shove her heel into a cop's knee I crave um seeing the type of resilience that I have seen every day of my life and that I exude every day of my life be mirrored back to me on stage rather than this watered down um sort of carbon copy narrative that tells me that I am always in trauma I am always lesser than I am always um craving space and never taking it up um and so I think for me uh for me what I just crave I just crave shows that just make me feel like yes like I want to hear like my people in the audience responding living getting their life I want I want us to recognize that many of the things we were taught in college are things that abuelas and grandmamas knew in the hood and so all of these all this EDI work that's it's really just hood mentality that's been that's been colonized and has pimped out to various collegiate institutions to wake to wake us up and I and me and I am very much a part of that and you know coming from Birmingham Alabama and being raised by a white woman and a white family and recognizing that for me blackness was something I had to figure out for myself um and come to on my own and that will always be a part of my journey um but also recognizing that um um that the real art the real work the real um philosophies have been have been set in place long before us by the very people that we don't that we don't allow to come into the theater because they're too poor and so I think recognizing that like our culture and our art comes from those people is the first step in recognizing the way that we need to shift how we tell stories and so that's what I pray I love it I love all of it um I would I would add that I I spent a lot of years for myself um in gay male world um I never fit never worked for me but I was always like I guess this is what it is um and I always wanted to uh I always felt like I knew being a trans woman would be hard and so I really wanted to like feel like I gave it my all and that's of course not how it works you know like that's not you know it's cute that's not really how it works so as soon as you transition you're like oh my gosh I'm so much happier but I have found in the world that I existed in that was primarily gay men running bars running boy's town running the theater um exploiting stories to make money off of it um that I have a challenge specifically for LGBTQ folks and specifically for white gay men and white lesbian women or queer women that I have found them almost to be gatekeepers that are harder to move um and harder to budge on than it is for cis folks I feel like cis folks are like we don't know anything teach us everything and you're like okay this is annoying but I can work with you easier than I can with like gay men or lesbian women who feel the need to to kind of all explain away sort of why they're doing the what they do or how hard they've had to work to get to where they are um and so one of the things that I did um and I started for myself was you know a um kind of like a pop-up resource fair that was also a place where queer and trans people of color who are artists were getting paid and I did that through this get woke series which kind of has toured in Kansas City and around the country and we really believed in pain folks for their time energy and wisdom and celebrating that resiliency and getting to those moments um you know that you're talking about that are like the snaps the yeses the like the moments that are about excitement because one of the things that we realized was that queer and trans folks of color especially folks um that are undocumented especially like black folks um have so much pain and trauma that are that are that are we carry that are with us right that sometimes um we just need to get up and move so like how do we actually activate movement where we're dancing to house music that speaks to us and that was made for us or we're um you know yes we're working through PTSD um and so those are things that I you know I want to see more of I want to see you all have the opportunity to shine and tell your stories and be supported in that way I also found in the theater world that it seems that it's really easy to workshop trans stuff especially if it's trans people of color you workshop it and you you put it out there and you test it and it doesn't get the same support as like white cis folks are like a white gay man can be doing like really bad uh I'm not going to call anyone out but could do like really bad like drag makeup and then they're like oh this is innovative this is amazing let's make this like the show and you're like girl like you know what I mean like just some of that stuff I think um doesn't exist the support doesn't exist in the same way for um people of color for for trans people of color and so um I just wanted to name that too that even when we do see it come up it's put into a place of like you still have to prove these certain things before that support will fully be given there I'd like to also add um this is just for context of sort of my own uh experiences of working in non-profit theatrical spaces and particularly in the arts admin world um the last probably ever theater company that I ever worked for in that capacity um they scheduled a show into their season that had not been written yet and it was this I think it was the first show of their season and it had not been written yet and when I came on and began developing work around developing like attention around that show it had 10 pages that have been written and so I want to be very clear and so I bring that up because I want to be very clear that that will never never happen for a black trans artist unless Laverne Cox maybe writes it and even then I don't think that they'll just allow her to do that so I just want to be very clear about the fact that it's like these theaters are very much have their favorites and they treat them accordingly and the level like and they'll do things like that but will never read the work of staff members interns people who are actively working every day for them and will never read their plays even when they tell them to send to send their plays along so I just want to be very clear about that that like these theaters absolutely have access and the ability to tell our stories and actively choose not to and I think that we need to make sure that we're never sort of um functioning this as like they don't have enough information from us or oh if we just like work hard enough we'll be able to like work our way into their eyes and into their good graces they don't care about good graces they don't even care about the content because they can schedule an entire season that starts off with content that hasn't been written yet you know what I'm saying so I just want to be very clear about like about that aspect like if you're every hearing like we don't know where the money is we don't know like we don't know where this is we don't know where that is isn't actually about any of that it's about they haven't tried my organization started the Nina pop fund the metony mcdade fund on sunday this morning we just raised a hundred and twenty thousand dollars and that's based purely off of individual donations to a paypal through twitter I haven't sent one email to not know what nobody's grant nobody's nothing so there's no excuse there's no excuse the money is there just make it happen you know and I want to I want to both totally like just give you all the accolades for that amazing grassroots organizing that you're doing and also just share I know in the midwest and in place like Kansas City that is nearly impossible like I hear that and I'm like oh my gosh like that to me feels so big city you know and I say that as somebody who lives in a big city like that feels like something that I would not see happen for like if trans woman of color and it's happened in Kansas City we've been one of the epicenters of violence towards trans women of color being murdered in this country and we don't see that kind of turnout or support I mean it is like we can put those donation links up there and we still don't have that kind of support so I feel like that is what I want the experience to be across the board and more right I want you to still have access to those grants and those funding and for folks like us I'm wondering too like and I know people are watching this from across the country I just want to name two that like enroll environments and places that I think it coastal neglect so not LA not New York not Miami not San Francisco it is a lot harder I think in some ways to even just get people to care get people to wake up and so thank you for sharing that and speaking about that do we okay so we can move on to questions from the audience exactly there's okay so I've kind of curated like a lot of the questions into one big question because a lot of the questions are the same question so the question is what can theater people do to support trans artists and black trans artists basically that's it it's just like what what can cis people do like what like what can organizations do what can costume designers do what can artistic directors do what can higher education settings do like every question is like a different iteration of what can we do so that's that's me that's what that's the main big question there's a couple other questions that I'll ask but I think that's the big the big one and I have a very simple response do it yeah it's as simple as that it's important because either there are trans people who are in the room or there aren't yeah it's it's it's an easy answer I think well you know to say it well yeah but I'll go on to say you know to mirror that back well what can you do right and like I know people I know people hate that I know they hate it I majored in English I know they hate stuff like that but the thing is like what you got you know like what what are you offering you know um if you're new I saw somebody saying you know like what what advice would you give to people like fresh out of like undergrad um you know my my company Roots and River Production started out um based on a mentorship program for QTPOC people like basically I knew a bunch of queer and trans mostly black people coming out of um school and I decided because for me that was a really hard time to stay connected to my artistry because in a lot of ways you're just like what even is life when you if you've just gone straight from high school to college um and so what I did was like those um artists who had just graduated up with artists who had already been working in the community to kind of share those resources and um and ensure you know which includes as Ian was saying earlier just like basic like living advice right like you know like how do you live in this geographic area like where do you get your hair done you know like where's the shea butter at like these are very important questions that need to be answered so that people can make their art right so um I think it's okay to reach out to people who you see doing the thing but also understand that they may not have the time for you right in which case um you know I really uh encourage organizations and people with resources to um to distribute those resources so that more time can be made right like if we're talking about time is money then making sure to compensate people um often opens up that availability right oh um peter peter j quote said something very important too in the comments says people also need to make sure that spaces are safe for trans individuals so we're not continuously harming them when we're invited that when we're inviting them into our space trans awareness training for staff and artists yeah yeah definitely I think a lot of I'm a lot of what these where these questions come from for me just remind me a lot of like white folk asking black folk to do all the work for them cis people y'all there's a thing called google y'all can look it up we had there are plenty of resources like I did not like have the luxury of having like trans people around like I did not know what a trans person was until that I was Asia 18 and outside of my parents house so like if I can do the work for myself and like figure out my identity and all that sort of stuff y'all can do it too it's not that hard there are plenty plenty plenty plenty of resources out there I will definitely uphold um one right now that um is at top of mind because I do work for Halround we we do have an article that was created by gender explosion which is a group started by stage source here in the Boston area and they wrote an article called beyond the bathrooms and it's like how to make a trans like a trans people trans people safe within a theater they're very step by step look that one up have fun with it also Halround has plenty of other things of articles to look up so like y'all just do the work yourself and stop relying on trans folks to do the work for you yeah I would add to that that um yeah uh any group that is marginalized has had to do so much work um and so I would just say that you know people who haven't had that experience and want to learn more about that group also have to do that work because the people that are doing that are living that life that is marginalized have had to do so much work because they have to live it and they have to figure out how to live that life and they've already they've had to do the work because they have no other choice but if you don't live that life then then and you want to know more about it that you still have to do the work I'll also add that I think that um just a small bit the more work you do to understand the things that you have that make you privileged the more you will understand and be able to empathize with what it would be like to not have that privilege um yeah I I was just gonna say you know um it's also important to mention because this usually comes up on our panels you know we see each other on the way um listen not every person of any marginalized identity has signed up to be a teacher or a coach that being said some of us have so you can also pay a consultant right like don't ask me for free ask somebody else for money and then we'll do it um and the other thing I want to say is if you really want to get rad with it quit your job right artistic director do we really need you or can we have guest curators for each season yeah give up your job go do something else find yourself in a garden you know like I'm over it give up your job give it to somebody else if you really want to see us like get ahead and um yeah let's just completely change the way that we've been doing this I think Ian kind of said it before like people the people it putting the right different people in power you know putting putting black people putting trans people in the positions of power is that's that's the way things are changed as long as the same people as long as the same people are holding the you know the keys to the gate then the same things are going to continue to be the same I love it I love it um so Josh has been having their hand up under the chat box I love that you use the hand oh so school of you uh Josh what is your question I don't know how that how do we do it I don't know how to do it I think the host has to do it I think it could Josh you can probably just type it in there we'll give that a second it says talking permitted oh oh there it is oh all right well that's all right okay so there's another there's one other big question that I think would be interesting to hear from everyone or anyone is um what are some of your favorite plays or works um that could include your own um that you'd like to talk about or promote or artists um that I would love to know who inspires you and who you'd like to lift up and can we Andy can we go to that question a second because I because I want to I feel like I feel like that might be a faster answer than the other one I do want to just take time to give space um to the folks who identify as black to talk about what you all are feeling right now in the wake of everything happening right so I didn't want to I didn't want to roll over that if you don't want to share if you're like I'm good I don't want to talk about it that's fine but if you want to share some things because I know that you all especially probably are feeling a lot of things and I don't know if you have some wisdom you want to share if you have things that you want to talk about so I just wanted to kind of give space for that before we go into that question um because I have a feeling if you do share you might need more time on what you're going to share um okay I'll say something I right now you know it's just really overwhelming you know like what I want most to to I mean justice always you know but um it's to spend time with my loved ones with my community you know to feel like my loved ones in my community are safe um as safe as we can be right now um I feel excited and inspired but I am also really exhausted and you know like afraid just just a lot of feelings that so that's all I'm gonna say about that beyond words yeah and I just want to thank thank you both for for being here and yeah it's we're we're honored to have you and we love you so um and I and I would love to hear who who inspires you um because that is um something that you know I I want to read more plays by black trans artists and um and and be inspired by by everyone that that surrounds me you know as your inspires me I uh I think I like to think that I inspire myself at times um yeah I think for me it goes back to the fact that a lot of my inspiration doesn't come from how we write about ourselves but how we live ourselves and so I think that more often than not the people that inspire me are like the black trans women that I'm surrounded by the black organizers that I'm surrounded by much of my work is grounded in activism so um a lot of my inspiration is not derived from the theater I I never meant to be any kind of writer I I mean when I let when I was 18 and heading off to college and just a little black girl from Birmingham Alabama all I dreamed of was the big Broadway stage and you know five years into living in New York um have realized how uninterested I am in the work that Broadway puts on stage or that Broadway considers valuable um so I think that for me I I don't I don't tend to derive much which is not to say that the work is not inspiring that there are not incredible artists out there because there are the you know the two people that I live for people that I'm with today being demonstrations of that um but I don't I think I I believe very heavily in the importance of having a life and an interest outside of the theater and so I don't think like none of my inspiration none of the words that I write down would happen if I didn't you know when I get inspired it's just like I'm usually just like have this phone right here and I'm just in the middle of a conversation someone says something hilarious or someone says something wild or an idea just comes to me and I'm just like just and I was typing in the little notes on my phone so I don't know that I can say that um I don't know that I can say that there are like um a specific artist who inspire me in specific ways um and inspired by black trans people who exist and black trans people who are no longer with us um but I think you know if let me I will just say it like this if you don't have a black trans person in your life um you should if you know if they if they're interested in that because um they're pretty phenomenal okay so um yeah I mean I feel like right now I inspire myself you know like I had this moment you know like theater my my show mirrors got canceled in the middle of its world premiere uh because of the pandemic and so that was quite the moment for me um and uh I just had my first reading of a play like out after the pandemic that was the Beast of Warren which Dylan was in um with the Austin Scottish Wright theater um and it was really nice revisiting my work but also like I just really love my community you know of like queer and trans black folks people of color and like yeah sometimes cis heads too but only the ones who are the most down and the most like open to learn and then they're really privileged to be in the space right and they know that um if they don't know that then they should right um and yeah like that's that's what I truly love about theater and its potential is just like all of this lovely I don't even know how to explain it like if you've never been in a space that it just feels like you're just like working your hardest and loving on each other and like you're feeling really fulfilled and present that I I hope one day you get to experience that um I think and I have experienced that most often in my community like with people like me thank you guys for sharing that or thank you all for sharing that um Andy let's go back to the question that you asked um yeah so what are some of your favorite plays or works um any anything that you would recommend for folks to read? Me or Spanish. Yes so yeah there's this thing called National New Play Exchange where you can go and read people's work um I have a profile on there you can find it linked in my website that there's a page where you can go and read things um yeah I read plays I mean you should be reading plays if you're if you're making theater and you don't read a lot of plays you should read a lot of plays and you should read plays by people who are not like you right and you can go find those people on National New Play Network Exchange right um but I also really love reading um books right so N.K. Jemisin like inspires me a lot and that's my plug look her up she's black woman she lives in uh Brooklyn right amazing sci-fi and fantasy featuring black folks. Yes the New Play Exchange someone put the link in the um in the chat. Also Tidefoe has been putting up a bunch of folks's work. Yes Tide and I'm gonna I'm gonna transfer those to the uh YouTube as well. Yeah um also shout out to Ty and all of their amazing work. Yes shout out to Ty for inspiration speaking of inspiration. Yes um and then I will lift up um my good friend Jesus Ivias um and their work um they do a bunch of solo projects specifically about around them and their um uh gosh their queer identity their trans identity their growing up um as an undocumented person um in El Paso Texas and Juarez and all that um so yes Jesus is a very dear friend but also an amazing and inspirational person for me. Awesome um and then let's see another good question oh this one um I found an interesting question is can you tell us about any theater institution or company that has supported you well or spaces where you have felt safe or represented? Um I can definitely give a shout out to MCC Theater as far as um uh their work is supporting me as a facilitator um we've yet to get to work together um where I get to audition for one of their shows but um um and that's and that's not not a shade or tea unless it wants to be uh but um I think MCC Theater has done a really beautiful job of um uh I mean we've worked together now for quite a while and they've done a really great job of supporting me as far as a facilitator um so I can definitely speak to that experience that I've had there has been really positive um I am also shocked to sit like a lot of them have been experiences that I've had as facilitator as a facilitator so um I'm not like quite sure about you know how much I can advocate as far as artistic work um but um I I'm amazed that I can say this but I'm LCT also Lincoln Center Theater like treated me very well um and so I think that uh that is another space that I I mean I have to honor as far as like they really showed up they paid me what I was worth and they didn't ask me to do more than what it was than what I had promised and what I had agreed to in my contract so um I have to I have to uplift that as well um also uh Long War Theater I just was um hired as an independent consultant for their production of I Am My Own Wife and I have to also give them their props uh that they and I have to especially give props to um Hope Chavez who works there um who I think it was prop who I have a feeling is probably a lot of the a lot of the effort behind that who's their artistic producer there um but I showed up there to do sort of cultural competency work and had very little work to do honestly and that was a that was a great pleasure to have so I definitely want to shout out those three those three spaces um once again I am one person and I have you know pretty privilege um my own you know uh proximity to whiteness and many other things that you know able-bodied all kinds of things that make me um that make my own experience my own experience and so I would never want my narrative to be used to um negate uh anyone else's experience who has had a different experience with any of these institutions um but I I personally have been treated um like a professional at the in these spaces and treated like my um treated as I am I am as I am worth being treated at in those spaces thank you okay so here's what I want to say um I would be remiss if I did not uh point out an uplift uh how important accessibility is to me and theater and you know like I don't mean that necessarily from like uh black or trans perspective but really thinking about like disability um and its intersections with theater and like how best to like serve community you know that means artists and people coming um and so I will say in my world premiere you know like I have a lot of if there's one thing I get bossy about it is about like you but you are going to put a note on you know like an accessibility note like but we are going to include these things because you're not going to have me looking crazy out here in these streets um you know not letting my people know if they can get into the theater or not and I will say that I worked with New York theater workshop and parody productions on what is possibly the longest accessibility note I've ever seen in my whole life but um they were really open to I mean I did let them know from jump and continuing that they could expect for me to add on you know um so things such as like how wide are these chairs I need you to measure them like you know like do you have chairs with arms and without arms can we make a note of that I need you to count every step and can people use these bathrooms over here when they pick up their ticket like black people don't like waiting out in the cold so can they be inside because like you know like all those sort of things um they were open to and and responded and so I also urge everybody else to just make those needs no right like put it out there because I think that artists are really driving that movement you know by stating them as needs thank you for sharing that um Dylan did you we don't have I realized we don't have your donation link I think do we is it in there I know but that's fine we can go to are you sure absolutely yeah okay you don't have because like if you have one let's let's pop it in there so we make sure plug in here no I would rather I'd rather uplift these other two bad asses so um do you want to close this out I know that you had a something that I think you were thinking about leading us in yeah totally it's um just a a short um breathing slash meditation exercise that I wanted to do just to kind of like um close this out um bring us back to our present and you know be the woo-woo theater people that were saying and I say that in like a silliness not like in a derogatory great whatever um yeah so if um everyone who is participating um go ahead and like find your most computable position if you are uh seated make sure you're you're comfortable in that way um if you need to lay down lay down if you're standing up do whatever you need um to um make sure that you're you're as grounded as possible all right and so then I just invite you if you feel comfortable uh close your eyes um if not you can keep a soft gaze and then just take a big deep breath in two three and out two three and in two three and out two three one more one two three and out two three now I want you to keep breathing deeply just listen to me as I talk I want you to think about the sounds that you're hearing in the room if it's your fan maybe an ac unit ac unit wind coming out through the window maybe it's some cars driving by ambulances happen especially for those of us who live in cities I hear birds twittering outside I know let's come back to our breath focus on that breathing in and out and in and out thank you thank you so much Dylan and I'd just like to thank um all our panelists again um for just being wonderful beautiful people I'd like to thank my co-moderator Marieke uh for all that you do I'd like to thank uh uh TGC for hosting this conference and for uh for all the shifting and reframing to focus on um the important issues and things of the day as they continue to shift and uh thank you to all of you for being here uh all the attendees um in the zoom and on YouTube through HowlRound and there will be future uh sessions coming up featuring more trans artists black trans artists so so keep on the lookout for that that I won't be involved in um for sure um but I'm I'm really happy to be uh a part of this conversation uh and and thank you for for having for having me here um and and uh it was wonderful to see all your faces and um I hope to see you again in the real world hopefully um maybe on the streets all right and get out there and do do some action I mean you know like protesting not like to fight thank you and uh we're gonna save we'll save the chat and uh it is being recorded so uh all the all the resources that you should find on your own but there will be the ones that we got today will be available uh through the TCG thank you everyone all right thank you