 meeting to order. First on the agenda is to approve the agenda. Does anybody have anything else you want to change, Ed? Correction. It is not Tuesday, it is Monday the 22nd. Can we also add back in we, a couple meetings ago, we briefly glossed over the December meeting dates, but I wanted to revisit those. Okay, December meeting? Yeah. We'll just do that under any other business? Sure. Anything further? Just so you all know that Mo won't be here. He had his hyper-visions, or he's doing great. It's both of them today, but he just couldn't set that on frame, you know, too soon. But he did go through the packet and called us and called me today or something. Okay. He's doing good. All right. We need to accept as a mandate. Sarka? Okay, all in favor? All right. And public comment inquiry? Is there anything that's not on the agenda this evening that anybody would like to bring up? I don't see anybody from the public here other than our agenda items, so I'm gonna assume that there is none. Lisa, do you have anything? I'm sorry. Do you have anything? Public comment inquiry? You're the only one. He's counting on you. I don't know. We've got a way to write all the time. I'll try to do better next time. Yeah. Rick, did you have anything? We're in public comment inquiries or anything else that's not on the agenda tonight that I'd like to speak to? No. Okay. Doug, do you have anything? No. Okay. We'll move on. We have first appointment this evening with Aldrich and Elliott to go over the signing of the construction loan documents and engineering services. So Jason is here this evening representing Aldrich and Elliott. So there's two documents for review. I think everybody has documents in their packet. The first one is the construction loan application. So this is the third and final phase of the water project that's been going on for a period of time now. And with each phase there's an additional loan application. This third and final loan application rolls everything into one application so you can proceed to the next phase of the construction. The total amount requested is $2.8 million which matches your bond authorization for the project. And it's pretty straightforward in the application itself. It does require signature approval and signature by the board and then it would require town clerk signature as well as town signature. Oh, no, that's pretty much it. You've seen pretty much all the numbers that are on here before. Similar application before to prior. Anybody from the board have any questions in regards to the loan application? Theresa, do you have anything? No. Or Tim, any questions in regards to the loan application? No, pretty good. A lot of what we see on here is blank. Like areas that are not filled in and whatnot. Is that going to be filled in at some point? I'm not sure. Yeah, a lot of, there's some questions on there like, you know, does the town ever experience wire fraud or have they experienced wire fraud in the past few years? Hopefully those are blank. So it's pretty much the same. It's like seven or eight pages of blank stuff. Yeah, that may just be some supplemental information that the town typically provides. It's a lot of those questions about... Besides the checks. Yeah, what are some of the town's financial controls and... Yeah, well that's not... Right, it's not really... I was assuming you're going to ask someone for the information. Yeah, that's just typically information that the town provides about their own internal procedures. What is the applicant's fiscal year? Yeah, I saw some blanks. I'm not sure what the deal is with this. It's not our first applications. I don't know if you were transferring stuff from one to the other, but I can fill it in tomorrow. So typically if you've changed fiscal year, we don't fill in those final pages. Okay. Because we don't always have that information. Okay. And it changes from one fiscal year to the next if you know what your budget is and what it's cycle. Okay. So you typically don't fill in from page 3 on. Okay. That's something that the town... Okay, that wasn't... All right, no one asked, so we can do that. So that's fine. Once we sign it, I can fill it in. Okay, that's fine. Yeah, I just... Okay. I can do it tomorrow. Any other questions or concerns? Okay, here and none. I would entertain a motion... Motion to sign and authorize the construction loan application and engineering service agreements. Well, the engineering... Separate or just do the construction loan application. Okay. Second. All in favor? All right. Who did the motion? I did. I think if you just sign one, it all gets submitted to the state electronically. Okay. I think it's just the certification on the back. It's just one-shot deal. Yeah. Yes. There's room. All right, so if you can just state it and then... I'll get Pam to sign it tomorrow. And then who do I send it to? You can send it back to us. Okay. Send it to Mike or to you, Jason? Both, please. Jason, what's your last name? Ruth, A-O-T-H. Thank you. I'm sorry. And your first name? Jason. Jason Blue? Yes. Okay. The next piece is an amendment to the engineering services agreement. So this amendment is for step three construction phase services. So from this point on, I'll be involved with the construction aspect, managing construction. I'll be here on site for meetings, so on and so forth. Mike will also be involved in carrying things through construction. We're estimating 180 to 80 calendar days for construction for this work at this point. And so the step three services include bidding, bidding the project, construction admin services, which are project meetings, compliance review, payroll, I'm sorry, repositions for payment for the contractor, review of shop problems, those types of items. We also have a resident representative, so we'll have a person from our office that's on site full-time working with the contractor every day that the contractor's on site actively doing work. That person will be here resolving issues, working closely with Tim and interacting with our office. There's also sort of a liaison between the public and the contractor. There's also a post-construction phase, which is sort of termed incorrectly. Part of this post-construction phase is reviewing the AIS certifications, reviewing the way this funding is structured. Part of the procurement procedures are included, American Iron and Steel provisions. Davis Bacon, which are certified payrolls, so we have to check the contractor's certified payrolls on a weekly basis and all subcontractors and disadvantaged business enterprises, which is a solicitation of women-owned minority businesses for bidding on the project. So all of that work is rolled into here. The amendment for this contract is $247,000. And that's all part of it was included in the total project cost. It's part of what's in the bond. $247,600. So just a point of note, the state, the water investment division, which used to be Facilities Engineering Division, they have reviewed this. We got responses from them today, and they concur with this amendment, and they reviewed the cost for the project. So there's no changes to the document? There are no changes. No questions about the services that are included in here. So this refers back to the original agreement that was made in July 2019, which actually has more detailed information on the specific services that were now re-inforcerating into the project. So the gentleman, or the regulatory balance, I can assure you that we have the right aggregate for Crackville, and now we have the gate pipe to burn it out of the place. So I think the only concern I had just looking at was, so based on 180 calendar day construction period, which is roughly 132 working days, you have it figured in here for 1,095 man-hours, so not to exceed that. And if you backtrack that, that's only eight hours a day. So it seems kind of light on a construction that you're... So we feel confident with the number we've got in here for the duration, based on the estimates we've done and how we typically price these for our PR coverage on site. We feel confident in the number of man-hours we've got assigned for somebody to be here full-time while the contractor is working. Yeah, I mean, the 180 days, that's until completion. So when things need to be done, that doesn't necessarily... There's going to be some four-hour days in there at the beginning and end of the project. The numbers aren't necessarily supposed to match up perfectly there. I think we included a few main days in that 180-day estimate. The goal is to give the contractor adequate time. If you want, we can share our level of effort with you to take with that. No, my concern would be that it's not to exceed 132,000 and then that 132,000 turns into 200,000 in engineering costs. Again, you feel comfortable with the number and the calendar days to get us there. Certainly, if there's issues with the contractor and there are certain delays where the contractor would need an extension to be a change order, that's something we can't necessarily control. It's not necessarily something we can predict, but we feel pretty confident that we've got enough time in here to adequately staff the project full-time while the contractor is here. So this is your man-hours for your people, your representative? Just for the person on site. All right, not the contractor's man-hours or the length of time. If you guys are set with it, Chris, it would be a motion to authorize me to sign. Anybody have any further questions on the board? I think my only concern is just exceeding the allowance of money here because the way this is drafted is that it's not to exceed the numeral number. I guess technically you could construct this all inside the 180 calendar days and still go over the limit and pay more money. I guess that's the only concern I have. It's not to exceed. It's 132,600 not to exceed. That's in bold. So once it goes over that, then they'll bill us by the hour. I read not to exceed. I'm thinking this as not to exceed. This proposal is not to exceed that amount. That's correct. So if you end up at $2,000 instead of your $1,095, this bill is only going to be 132. Based on this agreement, we can't build beyond that not to exceed value without prior approval from the select board or the state. All right, I had it backwards, I think, how I was looking at it then. So you're looking at it on that line. It's 132,600 not to exceed. So based on this agreement, that's the amount of money for the RPR services on site that we have to work with. And we can't build beyond that value without approval from the select board or the state. All right. Any other questions? No. Move to authorize our calendar to sign. I'll second that. Okay, Ellen Kever. All right. Anything further? So we're ready to go. Submitted. We're doing our internal QA review on that. So do you kind of have any idea about when we're going to know about these funds that were hopefully there? So this is a big piece right now, getting the construction loan application and getting the permit to construct it. There are two big pieces of getting your section to offer from the drink and moderate bid. And hopefully they've been pretty quick about that. We only need to submit the permit to construct application. It doesn't necessarily have to be approved. So hopefully we can get a response from them. I hope we can get a response from them. Thank you. And then schedule-wise, as far as bidding is concerned, we'll most likely look to get our Disadvantaged Business Enterprise solicitation out sometime at the point to end of December timeframe. And that'll set us up for prime bidding time in the probably February timeframe. Tim, do you have anything? I'm not concerned in the water. I just, while Aldrich and Elliott have the floor, I'd like to utilize some of that time to discuss any questions that may have arisen from the proposed storm drains for Avon and Liberty Stable. Yes. I have put the pictures in that you had taken and put those in the packet. And as I've said in my notes that I have put in an amount if we were going to approximately 190,000 and then did it over five years at 3%. And maybe we could borrow from ourselves from the Revolving Own Plan or something. But so since they were here, we had some questions about trenching and where in relation to the water line had to go, whether we're paving the whole street or not. Tim has some more information about that. We're also talking about, I think there was a little pros and cons. Why should we do it now? We could wait. And obviously we realize that the budget's tight. But Tim has some more information. My take on it is if we wait and we don't do it, first of all, this time around, we probably won't address it during my employment. I'm fairly sure on that. Because we have things that keep coming up and up and we address them as they do. And this is one of them. The other thing that since some of the questions have come up that we found out is there's a five foot separation between the stone water drains and the drinking water drain ditches. So with that separation, we can utilize the paving allotment for both ditches to essentially the narrowness of those two streets to pave the whole street after completion of the projects. I talked to Wayne some about it today. He said they can do the underlayment, the initial coat right inside of each trench and then they can utilize the finances that are left over for the black top and essentially lay it and overlay over the whole thing. So it does have potential to bring closure to those two projects if we utilize it correctly. That was your question, right Chris? Well, I don't think my question is, does it need to be done? Because I think it does. My question will be more budgetary. Well, yeah, right. So right now those projects are to, when we're done on those, that they'll be paved full width. Because that was the other thing, we didn't want to go dig it up five years down the road and waste 10 or 15 years of pavement. Right. So life anyways. And we agree with what you said, that was a great catch Chris because if you're just going to patch both trenches you're not going to see more than five or seven years of life out of the black top before it starts failing. But if we can put an underlay into both of them and then overcoat the whole street then we start seeing some value out of this. Plus if you're digging up both trenches you pretty much dug the whole road up anyway because it's only, what, 10 feet? Is it 10 feet wide maybe? So the waterline trenches on the inside of Avon Drive and the storm drain is on the other side, right? On the eastern side. Right, the two separate ones. It's the disruption for the folks that live up ideas. Totally. It won't be much different, will it? I mean you're spending the same, roughly the same amount of time to pave the road full width versus paving a six to eight foot wide strip of the road. You know there's more work just involved in it. Well thinking more of the actual construction of laying the pipeline you can't, you won't be able to have two crews up there at the same time I would assume it would have to be done separately. You'd have to do one and then do the other. And then the other so it just extends out the amount of time that that road's going to be. Yeah, I don't want to work out there. And there may be some interruption during the day, the narrowness of the road and you know the expectation would be that they'd have a sizable excavator on the road which is going to take up most of that road width. So it's going to be a bit challenging to have one-way traffic without some modification there by the contractor that's one-mile for one-way traffic. But those are some details that we'd have to work out in the contractor. But I would say that the people that own those roads should expect delays. And those are the kind of things that we would work with the contractor to coordinate with notification prior to the work happening so that they can prepare for the day. If there are certain stipulations that you as the town want the contractor to say not start until after nine o'clock or something along those lines in that area we can kind of work through those details. We also need to be able to get emergency vehicles up there. I mean things like mental details like that. You've been up on Avon Drive so you know the killer curves. The emergency vehicle piece is no greater than the contractor. Even if they close the road you have to be able to get emergency vehicles through. The good news is there's only four houses on each of those streets. There's some young kids like up at the top Avon Drive as a young family up there Halfway up. And on the right there's a couple. So what are we figuring for a bid date roughly? Because we would have to make our decision before then. Sure. We're looking in the February timeframe for a bid advertisement. And if we needed to make a modification during the bid we certainly could issue something via attendant during the bid period. So it buys you a little bit of time. But that's sort of late to include something of that size into the project. The same contractor would be doing both in theory. I put it out as it did. The general contractor for the project would be able to do the process separately. Okay. Did you have a yearly number for the world's effective budget under $90,000? Yeah it's in the budget. I added item on there. Two right here. I added a line item right here. And said would restatable Avon storm drains. So that's the number right there. So they're going to have a decision before that anyways because whether it's going to the budget it's not. So that would be fine. I mean that would need to be included in a few permits. Not a permit to be struck. But that would need to be part part of the overall planning before we submit all the remaining permit applications to your construction storm water permit. That's a quickie. So you can answer by the end of December or sooner? Yeah. We'll know in a month from now. So that's fine. The extent really has been to put the water line in such that we don't triple for ourselves if and when someone does drainage up there. Yeah. It should slide in right between the water line so it's really easy. Anything further? Here or no? Great. Thank you. Is it Bob? We said yes sir. Hello? We said 630 and 630. Yeah. Whatever. Whatever. My name is Bob Haines. I'm with Rebound Economic Development Corporation. I'm a local RGC in the land of acronym. Stephen Charles with me from Weston and Sampson, our environment contractor. So we're here to tell you and tell the public this is a public hearing. We put a notice in Valley News on the 19th that we were applying for two approvals. One was to enroll in the Vermont State Brella Program, which we did, which I can talk about in a minute. Or money to remediate the former Valley Motors property. So we purchased it this afternoon from GW Plastics Incorporated. We have been working with them for a couple of years, which proceeded their purchasing of property themselves. It's got some contamination issues that Steve can explain to you but related to some asbestos and some PCB contamination in the paint. The EPA has money available to remediate properties like this that are not available to private owners, which is the reason they asked us to purchase it, which we were happy to do. And once the property is successfully remediated and we get out no further action from the state of Vermont, we will re-convey the property back to GW Plastics. The plan they have in mind is to remove the building, prepare the surface for parking. It would improve the visibility in that area. It would allow GW Plastics to make some improvements to their headquarters building, the main facility that's been there for over 60 years. And it's quite constrained. You've probably seen their ads on the paper, are in the paper and on the radio and television that they're looking for people. They've done a major expansion in Royalton with that facility that's now 100,000 square feet and that's quite something. They offer terrific jobs to young people as a first opportunity. They work with area high schools and the Randolph Technical Center to introduce young folks to advanced manufacturing with a job-shouting program and get them enticed. They work pretty successfully with people who would like to change careers at a later stage than early on. They've got positions where people with college degrees. They're successful in helping their employees who would like to advance and have the interest and capacity to obtain degrees. So they have several folks there who have gone through a subsidized process with Vermont Technical College and State of Vermont. So we're, as a nonprofit economic development corporation responsible for helping the 30 towns in our district, we are very, very happy to have a company like TW Plastics and we'll do whatever we can to spend time trying to assist them. So Steve is here to describe the physical process I'm sure you're all very familiar with the property much more than I, but it has a history of over 50 years of being used as a garage. There may have been gasoline sales here in the past, I'm not exactly sure, I don't remember, but there has been an extensive investigation by Weston and Samson for TW Plastics. We've retained them to do a level one study which is a requirement for the umbrella program and for the EPA, and if we are successful in getting the grant we will have an RFP out for engineering services to continue to help us remediate the property. I've jumped over the umbrella program. It is a program that allows, what the state refers to as innocent purchasers to buy a piece of property and not be liable for the environmental condition of it. So TW Plastics applied for that, we similarly applied for it, which protects us. The advantage of having, and we're also going to ask for Regional Development Corporation exemption, which is another layer of protection that we will get if we're successful and hopefully will be in the deed, means that future owners, and in this case that we'll be going back to GW Plastics, will be guaranteed in their chain of title that there are no issues whatsoever with regard to the environmental condition of the property. If you've been to Farmway, you might recognize, if you've been going there for some time and have been there in the last three years, you'll see a large addition on the back of the property. We help with that property as well. The family that was very worried about the, Craig Trishman had a fertilizer distribution business with the neighboring property, the property was heavily contaminated. In that case, GMEDC bought that property and applied for an EPA permit, but was successful in getting it. We remediated it, and then I signed the deed back to the Gallarini family on the TAO family. So the town was happy that the environmental condition was cleared up. The tax base improved. They added a 20,000, 19,000 foot addition on their property. All the storage trailers in the backyard are now gone, where the sales guys and the gals would have to go out and see if they could get five or six boxes for you to try on. They're now in the store, in this one place. The neighbors are happy. So we hope that the town of Bethel will be supportive of our effort. We have a draft application that's been unfound to restate. It is a draft that has been amended since we prepared the narrative. It will be further amended. We've got to get it down. The narrative has a maximum limit of 10 pages, and it's 11, so we've got to pair it down a little bit. But any letters of support we can get from a select board or any of the other local social entities their recreation council, any folks you think would be supportive, we would appreciate getting a letter of support from two rivers out of Quiche Regional Commission. It's also involved in this process. We represent the same 30 towns in our district. It's the same. And they're supportive of this and they helped us with their relic application. So I could talk a lot longer than you probably want me to tonight, but those are the high points. Maybe Steve could? Yeah, I'll talk a little bit about the environmental side of it. So this is the site, as you know. A bunch of environmental investigation was completed based on the previous uses for auto sales and auto repair and an auto body shop over the years. And then GW Plastics purchased it and did a hazardous building materials assessment and found that there's asbestos containing material. There's some, in the old days, PCBs were used in floor paints and other paints like that, which is in the technical terms to call the bulk product waste and has an authorized continued use. And so those things need to be taken care of as part of removing the building and reusing the site. And so the EPA has a lot of money available where you can apply. And what the EPA likes to see when they do, when they fund these cleanups, is they like to see community involvement and community support. And the EPA, when they give money, they look good when they can leverage other money or resources. So they always, in their database, when they track how they did with the grant when they give money to a town or an entity to do some sort of cleanup, they like to do that with communities that they have some sort of support and that can be support in time or effort if this community really wants to happen. And so part of our purpose in preparing this grant for the EPA is to list town support, to tell people about the project that we're hoping to do with EPA funds, and to write a story that tells the story of the town and how remedying this property would be good for the town. And we think that it will be. We think we have a good story because I think this is a really important piece of property that can be reused. G.O.B. Plastics doesn't have a hurry to expand other than this property. So using EPA funds, we're really hoping that we can get this site remediated. One of the things that we're focusing on is G.W.'s offer to have the property serve as overflow parking for events at the school. And we have had conversations and we understand that will be well received. We think that visually if you drive north and approach the property, if you can look at their facility now, which has an agrarian look to it, it's very compatible compared to the typical old steel car dealership on the front. We think access in the U.S. from that section will be defined and will be safer. There are some places where kids cross and people with a dog or a stroller or other things are a little bit... could be improved. So visually we think it would be safer, better. We hope the neighbors will like it. We think they will. And we hope you folks do. So a question for you. So now that G.W. had purchased the project and now has... So what happens if you're not successful in getting the grant money to... It will be cleaned up and remediated and it will be much easier if we can get the federal money. It's dedicated for situations where there is a public benefit and there's support from the public. So if we are not successful, something will happen but it will be more difficult financially and we hope that's not the case. But at this point, if you don't get the grant money then the property stays with... It will be cleaned up while we own it to an acceptable level. We're going to try to get the site closed which means that no further action is required and the state is satisfied. And they work very... They're very cautious about it and very careful about it. Our district, Two Rivers has free engineering firms that I think they use for processes like this. They're very high on Western and Samson's abilities and we have to... There is also a 20% match which is required. So we're applying for a half a million dollar grant and there is a requirement that we have another $100,000 available as needed. So a project budget is potentially $600,000. And that $100,000 match will come from G-Bendia Plastics. We're a non-profit and what we have I can probably show you. And if it is successful, what type of timeframe is this one or two year turnaround or is it much longer than that? The grant period is three years so the EPA gives you your money and you have three years to complete the project. We anticipate that it will be much shorter than that. A lot of the time we believe will be taken up by fulfilling EPA's requirements. So we'll have requirements to create a plan to be capable or due in order to move forward with the grant and we'll have a required number of public meetings we'll need to have and things like that. So we have three years. We anticipate that it will be two years or less. But that would not be constructed on that. That would be creating the plans getting the big documents putting down to date. Most of it is establishing a plan. What things cost and what the time limits are they don't just reject willy-nilly. It's a national competition. We're in there with with applications from around the country. This region has done well. The state of Vermont has done well. So we have pilots that will be successful but there are certainly no guarantees. But the property will ultimately go back to GWB Plastics and they have an option in our arrangement that they can ask. If they say, gee, this has taken too long. They're waiting longer. They have the right to tell me we want to deed back. So we'll sell it back to them immediately. So I paid $10 for it this afternoon and for one dollar they can buy it back. You asked me for support. Do we have a... Template? Template. Or whatever. I took some notes. I can write them. Theresa and I have how does all this impact the property tax on this piece of property? What happens to the assessment of the property during this whole... I think it will... I think it will increase? No, like you folks own it now. Excuse me, you're a non-profit. So how does that impact the taxability of the property? We aren't asking for any tax conditions. It doesn't impact anything. No, and I'm assuming that the Listers have seen it or been through it since... I'm sure there's been a change probably since Valley Motors left. Yeah. So nothing right now. If during the construction it may, depending on what's there on April 1st, if it was during the construction freeze, if the Listers went through it they may devalue it for a little while but it's right, the value is only going to grow. So even if it devalues it for a year or two while it's under construction it will definitely be worth the money. Well I guess it all depends on what gets built there. If you go from a building to a parking lot then obviously it's going to be devalued. We're talking about building to expand. I'm not sure that's guaranteed. I think what you could envision would be a merged site that would allow GW to add to their existing building. They're studying what the options are. That's the reason they bought it. They don't have any more room to grow on site. And I think that receiving freight shipping might be changed. Parking for visitors I can tell you going there to visit is sometimes a little bit of a feat so it's easy now that you can park next door at Valley Movers. It will be improved. And the other thing that we look at is the relationship between that site and the Royalton site that are so close to each other. They really have a very direct relationship with each other. People are back and forth. I think the ability of the Bethel site to accommodate more administrative and research people will directly benefit the other facility and its ability to support more employees. They're worldwide. They're worldwide, yes. I mean servers right there. Ben Reales just got back from Italy and he was very proud of us. It's funny to say that businesses get a little tired of people saying gee, you know, just another big business. When they built the facility in Ireland, the prime minister in Ireland came to thank them for being in their community and providing a lot of good jobs and some real support for things that happen in that area. It's a company that wants to stay here and do everything possible. I think they have something over 425 employees worldwide and no customers in the lot. That's a little unusual in itself. So they make things here that go elsewhere and the money comes back to them. That was my impression, Chris, was that it wasn't going to be a parking lot. It was going to be an expansion of the business. Well, it may be a little of both. I mean there's an area out behind the Valamora's building where they might consider doing something. Better than sitting there. I think it will be done well. They don't sprint from things where they are very... It's really nice to work with a company that thinks seriously as they do. Certainly a good addition to this community. So the Brownsfield stuff is through two rivers. They're involved with us with a... It's called umbrella. They just got a nice chuck of money to help out with this. I'm sorry? They just got a water chuck of money here recently to do that. Yeah, they get money for assessment. They don't have money for fixing. No, no, no. That can help you, yeah. That's what the Brownsfield said. Yep. This is just for the building, correct? Because the former owner spent thousands on state approval for the soils. That's correct. The building were to be removed. The soils would still need to be to deal with them. So basically what they did is they investigated, they said, okay, the soils are here. In its current state, no one's being impacted or affected by the soils. So they can stay where they are as they are. But if anything were to change in the site, you'd have to make sure that they're capped by the support I'm going to have for the building. Yeah, what's the board feel? So Bob has also asked me to write a letter. I'm happy to do that as a select board member. Or are you going to do it as the Arnold block? Sorry, say that again. Were you doing it as the Arnold block? That was sort of BRI, Arnold block, select board, any one of those. So I guess I would look to you to say what would be your preference in terms of this. So you could do one from the BRI. Linda, could you earn the Arnold block? And then I'll do one for the select board if you're in agreement. And I talked to Deirdre today about the Rec Council. Oh, Deirdre, yeah, that's what she said. Yeah, that's what she said. Okay, that works. All right, thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right, Rick, you're up. Thanks for giving me a few minutes tonight. And thanks too all for doing what you're doing in my place a lot of time. For tonight, we're presenting the town meeting committee. We were formed. That's just to repress your memories. It's been a while since we've been in, but we were formed back then. After the 2013 town meeting, we had an unusually large turnout. And there were problems as far as just physically getting into the battle box as well as parking, getting access to the building. So we formed to try to remediate that to keep the meeting here that our hall had recently been renovated and we want to keep it here as much as possible. So we did come up with some solutions for the following year. That worked well. We had about half as many as in attendance as in park here. So things worked naturally better. But there were still enough folks who were not happy with access, older folks in general, even though we have hand-capped access, the parking is a little bit of an issue as opposed to the school which is all one level parking, et cetera. So the select board and everyone can agree that 2015 we move over to the school again and that's where it's been ever since. So what we did from that point was continue to explore ways of making the meeting more accessible to people and increase participation. At that meeting in 2015 we had a survey handed out which we got a decent response to and took many of those suggestions. The following year we implemented a dinner and after just prior to the school meeting in the evening, back when we got back and that was the format before the union the supervisor really changed. So we had added child care, microphone access as well as working with the select board some of the minor tweaks to the meeting itself and mostly as a moderator it fell to me. But we also made some large suggestions which really improved the town report through work with you guys and town managers over the years. That's it seems to be more readable to get good feedback through that. So the town meeting committee was working in most regards specifically for town meeting. We also started some occasional evening meetings, pop-up meetings to try to instill more citizen participation in local government. Back in 2015 we had some budget meetings we had some meetings where we brought in just town manager members of the school board and just fielded questions from the audience and that sort of thing. Since we've had a couple more we've been working with BRI over the years through 2016 things have dropped off a little bit to get back involved again. The reason why it's dropped off on our part is that through these informational meetings we had an individual come down from Middlesex, Susan Clark who's the town moderator there and they had put together a some of you have seen this I'll just pass it around which is called Middlesex and it's basically a handbook for citizens all aspects of their town so we took that information we had some conversations with Susan she's a big advocate of local democracy slow democracy they call it where town meetings are important citizen involvement so this was an offshoot of that we approached the select board back in 2016 I believe about this project the then chair was a little concerned because we would be soliciting grants and that sort of thing the concern was time that would be taken away from town employees working on the grants implementing the grants there was concern in that regard we formed a 9 o'clock committee on the Bethel Information Group we did all the work on our own we were able to bring in a grant from the small communities association that's $1,500 and we also had $3,000 of local donations so that money has been used to number one we we researched through old town reports all the information we could get our hands on above the town town office folks as far as information on who does what and we compiled all that information this is just a brief run down of the table of contents other than the introduction there's the first part is the town government whether the town facilities and this is really designed for number one and new people coming into town some folks have been here forever who didn't know some of these things and how to get things done where do you go if you have issues so all that information has been detailed we have bits in there about town meetings who are the officials the boards and commissions what do they do what's involved and another aspect of this is getting people involved we're still short members of committees we need to work on that obviously and we have some ideas on that that we'll be bringing to you there's also section on businesses in Bethel there's history of the town it goes on so right now we're at about 88 pages of information it's designed very similar to that there's a center called MAP there'll be pictures throughout of different information in town very comprehensive guide to Bethel so we're now finally it's taking it's taken about two years longer than what I am and a lot of it has been once we compiled on that information we had people who were professionals to assimilate all that into a readable format as well as graphic design so we've spent a little bit of money to grant towards that and it's now as of our December 10th meeting coming up we should have a draft it's pretty much ready to go to print main goal is to have this ready in some form hopefully a finished form by town leading to have to hand out this publication will be at insurance agencies in town we don't have a local realtor we'll have some in Randolph at any of the local realters for folks coming about as well as the local businesses banks and shops down town so right now what we have left in our account is about $2,600 which would buy us about 400 copies from following press our the idea is this would be about a five year publication that would need to be revised at that point so our best estimate is about a thousand copies so we'll be needing a few 51 money to make up that deficit for that difference it's about $6,200 to print those thousand copies so we'll be we're already looking for some money right now naturally if there's anything that the town might have to help us out we'll be happy but we fully understand that you guys are doing a great job keeping the budget coin drop what coin no no you will not see a coin drop we've done two variables and to make it deeper one of the questions I had in my head you just answered here is that going to go with a five year rotation looks like on that is there any way of the least amount of pages that's in the document the cheaper it is to produce so seeing that middle sex is probably a little bit larger town than ours and there's this 38 pages is there any way of condensing that further to make it cheaper to produce or both through format and a little more editing work down probably press release like to see it down to 80 because that's what works best for this binding binding but yeah we're working on getting it down although I don't I believe it's going to be still significant because you know how it is to the more pages the less likely somebody is going to go through the whole you know if it's a 25 page book then people are more apt to take more interest in it I guess than a bigger novel version you know it became the more we delve into it the more information we've got it kind of grew just a little bit more than what we know how many copies do we print of the town report a year Therese we did last year and I know we're going to do 500 less this year plus two cases left and we had dropped it significantly that's a one year deal we're mailing it to all registered voters and owners so I think that we're down to under 2,000 we're going to be less too you said you might be putting this out here you haven't said this but about the website so we could link to it I asked Kelly if you guys had your own website and then if you printed less copies but you had some out we had an Aster copy that was in a three hole binder we could certainly make someone a copy if they came in looking for it and because it's so specific a thousand just seems really taking your advice and we'll take that back before this meeting we haven't met since then so I'll be taking that back I was asked to make a presentation that I've done tonight and we will take all of this into consideration and say we realize giving a full amount for a thousand may not be feasible but there are going to be electronic versions so people will be able to access that and then a few hard copies because obviously there's still some folks who don't have electronic devices I do wonder if Penny certainly if she could do them in runs if she did you a couple hundred now and then you can kind of monitor how it went then more later or something like that I don't know but I mean I gotta think that nowadays probably maybe half of the population will probably electronically look at it I don't know what that number is but you know I'm more apt to go on the website and hit the hyperlink and look at it than I am to yeah, that's me but Doug might like his copy to put it at the house I think the 80 page length too is something that we can take a look at maybe cutting that back but you know people get out 25 pages and then they'll say next time so it may not get hopefully the table contents will be utilized and people where they want to be it's not designed in magazine but more information so also on the other part of our mission is to make sure folks are aware when the budget is being prepared because that's the time we want to get people in here and not town meeting that's the time for them to ask questions too but if they're informed beforehand you'll love that in the past we've seen that they're very helpful when we get to town meeting people where we stand so tonight I see your discussion just the general fund yeah it's the entire budget but the entire town budget but it's discussion only we do the same thing we did last year which was advertised budget information this is their first look at the whole thing and so we'll do that as we did before and I think I guess the summary I put out I think I put the summary for town report out prior to town meeting too as well and I'll do that again this year so that people know when they come to town meeting but the next meeting we'll start actually advertising more for the budget information but I mean obviously it's out in packet and it's online and the agenda's out we do still post all those things but I'll make a note for the December 9th and the December maybe it's 22nd whatever on the board out front that they're budget informationals as well we'll do our thing too in the front porch form yeah I've been fairly put something out on Facebook and I think now I guess she's going to give stuff to Lisa to post on front porch form I guess because we don't have our own front porch form account you have one there's a Bethel community forum it's a Facebook page there's a bunch of administrators but front porch form is a separate thing it's like a statewide business right no I know what that is for some reason I was under the impression that you've managed the towns front porch form but I'm an admin on the Bethel community forum oh okay maybe that's alright alright then Kelly must have misunderstood so I will get her I've been asking her to start and one ourselves yeah I don't think there's a Bethel front porch form page so that way we can control it really just enter it it's easy enough to do yeah I had talked to her about it I guess so I'll make sure that happens we can do that as well but yes this is the first time that they're getting a look at the whole thing but it's just kind of we'll bring in department heads next week and if you know that sort of thing we're just looking at a big picture tonight so thanks very much just a quick I know space is sort of an issue but have you thought about having local businesses sponsor do sponsorships and have a little spot in the magazine we did it one time we wanted to take up a lot of space that granted it's a trade off it's a way to pay for it right just thinking about trying to find the money to sponsor more of it potentially a good way to do it right yeah space is an issue yep thank you Rick and everybody had in their packets the the Proudy so we're looking at the trees for next July we're just looking to they're looking to just use the river street piece coming out under the trust and then out 107 so it should really I guess the first thing I had said to trees and I thought was oh I hope they're not going through the downtown but it looks like they're going to avoid that so they must have to get permits from the state of Vermont I'm sure they we had these specific permit we don't but the state well I'm sure she knows that because they've done it for the while they have a great estimate about how long it'll take from the first vehicle to the follow-up vehicle she said more than 4,000 participants inspired 2-day 200 mile ride I've read all that but I didn't see any about it no she just said the last one do we have to deal with the follow-up yeah I'm going to say she's more than 4,000 yeah 2-day event 2-day event no she doesn't say in here she just says 37.9 mile marker until Main Street and then yeah so he's right there from up 107 past the state police but like I said she'd need a state permit and you guys apparently haven't done it before maybe you just didn't know you this isn't your first year is it no we've been running for a number of years so maybe it just never came from this life before cause it's always been the same room starts with fare or something so um so see you've been doing it and didn't even cause a disruption so you're good usually yeah Friday to July 10th yes busy do you need a motion for that or um you might as well make one why not anybody want to make a motion make a motion to accept the Proudy benefit bicycle ride on July 10th second all in favor yeah we had class 4 highway policy so I want to let you know Mo Hulfe today and he said this that he was wondering about I guess he said Chris he would know cause he brought this up in the past that he doesn't think that we should allow motor vehicles on class 4 roads basically till the mud is gone cause he doesn't want him to um in the spring till you know like May 15th because he doesn't want people you know tearing up the class 4 roads since we don't really maintain them much that um so do you remember that as a conversation in the past I mean I you mean well I talked to him well I asked him that you mean you know vehicles other than the residents that live behind themselves like ATVs and that kind of stuff I said you're talking about cause we can post it for weight limits and I wasn't sure at first he just wanted to make sure that we actually that the road foreman actually did that but he's like no even more so he said except for residents he didn't think that this select board should allow people on class 4 roads that they weren't residents um until after I mean we currently I guess he's just concerned because you know muddy and he doesn't want people out there tearing up the roads for mud season anyways class 3 yeah I mean you can just add 4 to that yeah I'm just telling you I mean the majority of the people that access those class 4 roads are either the property owners themselves or some of the recreational you know four wheeler type club technically I don't believe you can gate and walk a class 4 road period but we do up on Hooper Hall I don't know if it goes up on top of the mountain that's gated in the mud season and locked I don't know who that is you can grant permission to an entire landowner the point is if you didn't do that and a couple of these guys with the big mudder tire trucks would go up there and make two passes and that would be completely destroyed and that's what Mo wants to knock Seattle he doesn't want people out there jeep the road that goes from Wintlas Andrews Farm out to Mandon I can remember driving that with a car and now I'm not sure I want to take my tractor out there because of that I mean I guess all we can do is we could you know put it under the umbrella of the mud season type rules I mean you're not locking gate it but it's a select board exercise and control of class 4 highways and integrity is public rights away means which may food are not limited to and it has like 6 or 7 prohibition or restriction of use by motorists I think we have this policy or whatever it's called the policy gives us the right to say okay the mud's too deep it's thrown in the mud cannot be used until sometimes it's not right because I know I'm assuming the road foreman obviously puts out signs with posting weight limits and that you have signs on the road that says that they're closed until 15th you have to call and get permission but does do you actually go out Chris are you saying that you post some of these roads about month season or are you just talking about the standard weight? Well I think you have the standard language of you know between you know whatever April May time frame that we do post their roads so you have the right to in this policy it's just going to be making sure that it gets done what are some of the changes so this class 4 road policy now because right now we don't have the policy but I guess what have we been operating on you know is there I mean with this policy here is there anything that we're doing now that's going to drastically change or is there anything that we're not doing now that's going to well I'm not sure that how is it going to impact people or I'm not sure that you have a sort of you have a you guys have an existing policy now but it's called what was the name of the thing oh you have a curb cut and excavation ordinance that got passed in the 80s that doesn't appear that's been enforced because you do have several people that are running log operations and and I don't know if Greg knew about them I have no idea there's no paper trail so I don't know if he authorized some of these but it seems as though it seems to me that you've had a policy like in this policy that got passed in the 80s before any of you board members it said that the residents were responsible for the culverts were obviously you didn't force that because they're all filled up and so hence we're going to clean them back up and turn them back over to the residents the other thing is too is we've had a couple issues with class 4 roads recently as I have and since June with people that are upset because they're maintaining a section of class 4 road and then somebody's coming in and logging or a neighbor up there is tearing up the property so you also don't have a policy currently in place whether or not you are going to maintain roads or maintain bridges and culverts on class 4 and that continues to come up and when I asked you last time in last meeting you said you didn't plan on you didn't want to maintain culverts or bridges on class 4 roads so this puts it in a policy which I think eventually it's going to come up so it's best that you have a policy in place and that way you're treating everybody the same and I you know I guess growing up you know I've lived in three different towns and it seemed to always been when it came to class 4 roads it was you know the town wasn't liable really for anything on the class 4 roads it was the residents of those roads you know if that's installing a culvert or a water bar or doing some ditching or doing some grading do you guys know how things have operated in Bethel on the class 4 roads in the past Doug? Of course my knowledge on that if I'm from Hungary or if I'm from the town if you sponsor a full culvert that's the only thing but if you're going to allow people to come across on class 4 roads then I think the town should be responsible if you're going to let traffic go across that road when a man always got laying on the left and right side of the road and you know a lot of people go through that I'm like on road for example if you go from there all the way over to into Gilead I'm trying to take the road here that by him and he connects to by him so if you allow people from there you go over across there and stuff like that and like he can do with a Jeep or a full wheel or something like that but if you allow people to travel that road then I think the town should be responsible well I mean it's difficult you can't stop you can't stop the whole traveling on class 4 roads and the statute is just vague enough that the statute actually says that you can you know to extend they'll maintain them to the extent required by necessity and the public good and convenience of the inhabitants of the town and when staff and financial resources allow so it's hard to know when people buy property off on class 4 road they know they're buying on class 4 road that's my certainly my opinion but so you're saying that in the past when you were here when you were for the town of Bethel did you maintain culverts on class 4 roads you did at least I know for a fact since I've been on the road we're not in the place of it and I think that some of the issues of why we're looking at policy is you know I guess my whole impression on it is that you know class 4 roads the town doesn't do any maintaining of those roads but it seems though in the town over if you talk to different administrations in this town over the time that some did some things and some didn't do any and we haven't really been consistent on either putting a culvert in the ground or grating it or allowing so we need some sort of consistent language and that's true because those chickens are coming home to Bruce now because I'm getting calls from people who are saying they heard that so and so was reimbursed because they put a culvert in and a town paid for that culvert and then other people are saying no in my tenure year we've never done work on class 4 roads and then someone else and so I don't know if people had made a side deal with somebody else like a prior town manager or you know or what and each road foreman is operated differently and so we need a policy so that we're managing people you know fairly and consistently and fairly because I you know when I talk to other people they're saying they didn't maintain culverts on class 4 roads but do you know Ryan and you have no idea you know on main days the snowmobile club always maintained the work that we needed to do town was never involved and I think for the most part from what I've heard and seen that for the most part we don't do anything on class 4 roads however there have been times where we have and you know all it takes is for us to do something for one person on one road and then that kind of opens up the whole can to everybody but not having a policy to go back on you know again it's no different than we're talking about drive culverts and things and if you go out you'll see a new home that was built maybe 10 years ago and there's no drive culvert you know why wasn't there one and who maintains that and who doesn't and you know it used to be you know in towns I've been in that if you're a homeowner and you build a home you're in charge and then the town would maintain it afterwards type deal but we don't you know there's a lot of those things that we don't have for policies by the way access permit is next that's because you're trying to take the 180's and update it to now that's a little touch or two because if those culverts fail that can damage the road because that's kind of you may want to maintain it just to save the road but those are things that are out there that we just don't you know shame on us not having a policy that we can follow because when we don't have a policy what ends up happening is you know we take every instance a little different right you know and you know Teresa won't be here forever and the next person that comes in will do things a little bit different than Teresa did and she's doing a little bit different than you know Greg did and so on and so forth so yeah I mean it makes sense because you're right and because we have a policy that I found to have the most help and that was written in the 80's that said residents were going to maintain the culverts but nobody was enforcing it so you know now we have a bunch of plug culverts and so we need to decide what we're going to do and I like where I came from it was the resident and he built a new driveway culvert for our specifications we checked your work you paid for it done and then we maintained it so if one fail later we maintain it but that is not apparently what was done here so so nothing was done so now we get somebody did something once upon a time but in the last few years they have not been maintained so you know we're trying to these things come up the other hard part for the class 4 of town I was different because it's so big different towns do different things and people move in they assume that because sometimes I know again it's not all class 4 but they'll raid them once a year which to me is more than what the town needs to do but I don't know but they come in with those assumptions and right now not having a policy we can't look out to the league for instance because the leagues is so vague that you know you could read into it however you want and this is a model policy that came from the league and that I modified a little bit basically it's this is a variable these are the stab juices with definitions this is what we're going to do we're not going to do but it would help because when we had an instance or I had an instance where someone who lives on a class 4 is maintaining it they put in a lot of money and then she you know she'd say well I'd like to do a make a road maintenance agreement with my neighbors and like you can't you don't know what I mean so you can maintain it but you guys can't to a legal agreement that a road isn't yours so hopefully clear up a couple things and you know not to complicate this but you know in doing the FEMA work this summer there are instances out there of us having class 3 roads that don't have any houses on the class 3 roads that go to class 4 roads so which makes it tricky because you know plowing wise if you're going to plow you know let's say it's a half a mile class 3 road to get to the class 4 road nobody lives on it why is it a class 3 road why is the whole road not a class 4 road yeah I don't understand that that's an interesting yeah I don't know and I'm sure there's more instances of those out there I'm sure Doug's got a bunch of them in his pocket but you know of those cases that you know why is it a 3 they've actually kicked them out of 3 into 4 in the past they've actually kicked them out of class 3 road and turned it into 4 road and I think you're right we have a couple places that came up during FEMA because you can't get FEMA on class 4 roads and Chris called me once and was like this is where we are where is this oh this is where it ends on the map it's like range and they are that little piece of range until it takes hopes to right there's 3 and then there's no house in any of us however I start I don't know and then in the wintertime we don't plow up right you know so you know so you lose a little state highway but to maintain those things some of it's crazy a small amount of little aid that you get for 2 tenths of a mile road is it's true especially that but you're right they do it on the road on the road I mean I thought you know I read through it and I thought it looked pretty good I guess the only comment that I would have on it is that we should get it out onto the web page and give ample time for people to look at it and get some comments back obviously it does impact people I guess that would be my only thing it's definitely a policy that we do need to have in place but I don't know what our time frame is on having to implement the policy but at least if we had to review time to get some feedback kind of like what we're doing with with the trash ordinance get the feedback let's you know and then go from there I just wanted to get it out because it's just one of the many things I need to clean up so this was on the left the only confusion I had was I didn't know what pen they're going to gate it yeah well I did I looked it up so I figured out what it was but it's not it's a term we might want to clarify so you don't want to adopt it you want to put it out for a public comment okay so do you want to put it on the next um agenda or do you want out for a month once I would probably skip the next meeting I'd put it out there so it would be enough time okay and then you know how it is I mean you're either going to get comments back quickly or not and if it doesn't look like we're really getting much traction out there on the comments then you know we can look at it and act on it faster if it looks like we're getting a lot of comments on it then maybe we'd leave it out there a little bit okay that's fine because like I said I'm still I've got part of the highway process permit done the next one done so which goes with this anyway so and I think people just need to understand that you know this isn't a policy that we're just making up and we're just going to stop service because you know a very large majority right now is this is the way we're dealing with class 4 roads is just we don't have a policy out there um and by having the policy it will be fair and there won't be any side deals that somebody got one piece of their road graded or a little gravel dumped or something you know or a culvert put in or you know however that goes trees can you warn that as an actual hearing you could well it's not an ordinance it's just a policy yeah it has both other things it's just a policy um if we don't get any comment I've sent it to two residents of one class 4 road I sent it to Michael and Bill Crossman or I emailed Bill Crossman so I would put a copy of it to his brother Mike and they have some issues with their road on going but and there was another lady so I have a couple of people that contacted me that I could send it to them but since it's not an ordinance it's a process as we know everybody's welcome however if we were going to take a piece of road from a class 3 to a class then we would have to warn you know warn that but this is just a policy to keep us on the straight and narrow and treat everybody fairly no wandering but yeah I'll send it to them does the board have any further comments or so right now we're good with putting it out get some feedback on it and if something comes up it can be amended so maybe we'll give it a month and then we'll put it back on the agenda better than that I thought it was good I didn't have any changes as written so we're trying to adapt the policy towards class 4 roads say that again on the class 4 roads we're trying to adapt the policy on it and yeah exactly this just outlines what the town's responsibility is for class 4 roads but here's to the statute it makes it easier for the highway department too because if someone lives on the class 4 and let's say there's a culvert issue then it clearly can be pointed out that the policy is that's the ownership of the individuals that live on the road or grading or whatever that is but you know it doesn't put the highway department in a situation where okay we'll get to get out there and change it you know where you can say unfortunately the class 4 road policy states this and you know do you want a copy of it? do you want to put it on the internet or something? yeah do you want a copy of it though I'll give you mine you can take mine because I can make more no you can't you're in the budget you were cutting that paper you've gotten it twice now 3 Saturday that's right yours isn't double-sided really burning through it burning through it alright that's fine anything further class 4 road policy draft just one other thing force the culvert to stop now what about if the war is not going to redirect that's the culverts for the dampers it's not going to be big enough and then the war just goes around and takes out portions of another another area one example the culvert there's way too small we get heavy rain it just washes another section right there we fill it in and it comes right back and do the same thing so it's something like that it's kind of concerning but that much time and getting it done and then because the water misdirected itself but we're not allowed to go into it to redirect the water I'm not going to you get the same speech that I got from the jaren board the A&R basically the water is going to do what the water is going to do it's going to be a big mess issue obviously in April as you're aware and I asked him about that getting in and we have water that's hitting the side of the right bridge and I asked him about that he's not going to let us in the river and he said that for years they allowed people in the river to channel them out and redirect the river and they didn't feel like it got them anywhere so they're kind of what they're doing with their codes and standards like the bridge was this big the mountain's got to be this big so I think that you're experiencing they're looking for a place where it can go the water has crested over and then they're seeing you see it banging off to your left I know you look at it and say well that should go in the direction they're already wiped this section out but once the flood is gone then it starts redirecting in the ways it's originally set we just can't direct everything right across to that one area and still meet the same stream I mean we go through this ourselves so what they're looking for is places for it to overflow where you have nothing except grass so that it can recede and go back in without bringing much debris with it I need to smoke some of that yeah I'm just telling you that they believe that and I'm on that is the speech I got you got to let it wiggle we got to let it what? we got to wiggle that's what we care too or when it happens you get in the stream quickly and you do what you need to do and you get out nobody knows alright the Lister's office staff looks like Louise wanted to add a staff to the Lister's office yeah Judy has been in and she seems to enjoy it she has good history but computer-scaled Ben interns industry for a long time I have not received a letter of resignation yet from Roberta but I expect that to be coming as we have mentioned at a prior meeting that looks like Louise Louise's term is up in March we assume that Jim is also going to resign and Roberta is moving so certainly Louise was interested in finding some people and Judy came in and seems to really like it and certainly has a very good attention for detail enjoying it so Louise asked that you basically appoint her right now a staff because you know have any spots to put her in and then she could run in March I was kind of looking at it and being that well the Lister positions are currently full so we can't make an appointment because there's no not as a Lister there's no right and if it's staff I don't think that we have the the Lister should be able to appoint an office they can you can hire staff for the Lister's office the select board would do that and you could make appointments to an open seat but does that through the select board we would you would make an appointment to an open seat and you would hire their staff and hire I just thought we were on the appointment so I just didn't see the need to why we needed to be in the process because we're not appointing anybody the town manager hire staff I suppose I mean I do all the other hiring so and she would be staff so I didn't think of it that way I guess I was waiting because I thought I'm not here to but I don't but as far as the board goes I mean we're just here to appoint so if there was a seat available then we could appoint if you're just looking for somebody to fill some hours of staff you know the good news is that she's training her right now all of these is still here which is great so I had thought we might have an appointment if I had a letter of resignation but I don't yeah so I would say right now I mean unless anybody on the board sees something different don't need anything from us here if the role becomes vacant before the turn then then we would need a two letters and you're looking to sell the van track sidewalk plow and big old safe yeah so the sidewalk plow so talk about that as last time we had talked about the budget and I had $10,000 in there for a zero turn mower which was the request that I had received and it wasn't until after the meeting when I talked to Morgan and said alright talk to me about your mom's situation he said that the the part of p vine the fire department and the wreck gets really thick if he too thick to mow it bi-weekly so he does do sections of it sometimes weekly and then of course he has p vine river street bridge the three triangles fort fortitude the avon triangle town hall town office of Bethanel's palm station and he does all the trim and it trims all the pump stations so he said it takes him three to three and a half days a week so 30 to 35 hours to trim and mow everything so his feeling is that we could cut about a day off that if we had a zero turn so we talked about this as I said well what about you know the cabot or the van tracks apparently they had spoken with Greg and no one mentioned it to me so the plan is to get rid of the van tracks apparently when they bought it it doesn't appear that it was the right piece of equipment for the job he said that cannot run chains on it this is for Morgan that the van tracks cannot run chains because the bumpers so low to the wheels he said it's really hard to keep it on a sidewalk it's belt driven so if he's using the blower the snow blower it goes through one or two belts per storm and he said that the solider that fits on it doesn't work properly it's really slow and it won't discharge sand so he has been using the cabota which he said is in rough shape exterior but runs really nicely the cabota has a straight angle cloud it has better traction more power has a workable snow blower it does not however have the sweeper attachment so apparently Greg had looked at trading the van tracks for a zero turn but nobody wanted to make that deal so it just seems to me like you did that you have cash coming back to you so why not just sell the van tracks outright like your VLCT or on their website and through their magazine you know through price list and then you'd have to buy a broom attachment for the cabota which apparently we use like when the tractor trailer ran into that building on south main street and I know Tim has used it a few times the sweeper of the van tracks like around when they've done like water hairs and water digs whether or not you want to buy the zero turn is secondary apparently we need to sell the van tracks because it's a piece of equipment that they're not using so what type of value does the van tracks have do we have any estimate of 12,000 to 15,000 is what it's worth tell you that for sure myself because I don't know just like half all we paid for I have paid a ton of money for that thing well it sounds like it wasn't if what Morgan is saying is correct which you know I believe but he believes this is the fact that it wasn't the right piece of equipment but they shouldn't have bought it originally anyways I can only tell you what I know when that piece of equipment was born it had to be very darn high it was purchased due to the fact that anything else was to be that specific science was to get between the telephone poles and everything else we also truly did slide off the things all wheel drive parts were studded but the thing was the cab sometimes was sliding sliding to the telephone pole break the door windows and everything else so since I've been here I've been in place three of those windows already maybe wrong maybe two but at least two of them and then for development stuff that's been going bad with that a lot of it had to do with not the barrier to stuff not being maintained properly to give it a wiggle and burn it if that's going to jump you run it on and you put it away wet you don't maintain it that's what's going to happen it looked like the Kubota was doing a good job this morning with the sidewalks we're all cleared off well that's going to be a job for you but I see but I don't think we have this sand on the back of that Kubota so I don't know what these are all the sidewalks you drive it with a pickup truck that's what I think this sidewalk with the pickup truck what Morgan's been doing I think that's exactly right so I think by using that it's kind of a waste but right now you don't have nothing else you don't have nothing else to do but I think that's a lot of ways to solve the one up against the buildings when you walk down the street still in the summertime you look up against the building you got quite a bit of salt still left up against the buildings but you know I'm like I agree with the the zero turn you get the right size and everything else for it but some of the zero turns it's not going to work for a well removed small buildings you're going to need to push more well and I know some of these he trims just like the Avon Triangle he said that's just all he does is to be wacky so would the Kubota have the ability to have a sander we used to have don't get it wrong but he used to be a bum saying when you push the salt into the zero it's just going to be able to dry set it and be connected to it and turn it a little bit back in which you can adjust it to the amount of salt coming out when you do it it works right in front of us with the pot this didn't work anymore it was again the dry set again you don't grease them how about you do it or you grease them up the quickest step is to maintain your own flow well absolutely it worked it worked fine when you had it wow so then I have to speak more again about how we install it on the sidewalk does anybody have any issue with the band tracks potentially selling that if we get the right dollar for it it would seem like it's doing us any good sitting out there beside the garage covering the snow something different it comes with a line attached and a sweeper yep it says sweeper snow and blower yep, more good it's quite a bit of money for them they paid 30 grand for it I got a question how much money did the town pay in the few years that they had the mowing fired out when we contracted the mowing I see I have to think it could tell you I should have the history in here I was going to say it was probably 10 to 15,000 yeah so how much money did we pay the guys mow two to three days a week all summer long we couldn't be doing other stuff helping maintain the secondary road that position was made when it made and it never turned out to what it was made and I've made the comment before Greg's grinning like the last time it was it was just one of the amount of position that's we paid out the extra the fifth guy there's other stuff and now they were talking about not firing the last time they were cutting the brush for 10 grand you're going to buy a new zero I had a couple of myself the other day I think so it looks like in 18 19 we paid out 8,800 but is this and then trying to remember how yeah so we paid out 8,800 because last year what I had done was taken when Greg had asked me to figure out the budget basically I figured out so that 62.5% of Morgan's time went to the highway 15.6% I think went to 18% went to water and then the was that 14.6 or something went to so 62.5 yeah I went to the parks and I actually sat down this year and said now that I knew how long it took him to mow and I calculated out exactly how many hours and I reduced his amount of hours for the highway and ended up that this year in this budget proposed budget is to make it reflective of how many hours he was working is 27.5% of Morgan's time so I'm actually upping it this year to 11,654 dollars that's just wages that doesn't include social security, Medicare retirement, health insurance that we put there $20,000 in summer to have a town employee mow long and we can have it done for $8,000 so he was so that's how we're figuring retirement and all that you know $78,000 a year job and figure that all in with that employee of course the other thing we have to be careful too is you know back then we didn't know what anything cost us in this town so it may say $8,800 but it might have cost us $14,000 because nobody knew we just broke checks and you know there was a contract that worked out exactly as reliable as people had hoped for that's all in the bidding process so I mean it's probably something we probably ought to be thinking mowing the cemeteries do a great job on time it doesn't matter what the weather is they do a great job so there are people out there that could do what you asked them to do I think that the intention was of Greg's what he said what I heard him say to the board was that that way Morgan would do mowing obviously he'd do water some water work which he does do and then so I think he was the quote unquote utility position that he was going for that was the side walk that must be done all during the storm right more and more and more and which didn't end up working out last year which is working out now but it didn't work out last year so yeah I'm just saying one so anyways that was the comment about the bandtracks so I don't know the bandtracks and I have not had it appraised this is just a number that someone threw at me saying what they thought it was worth so it seems though somebody would be able to give us a decent appraisal of what it would be worth because it's a 2015 and you said you bought it for about 30 grand that was the ballpark number I remember so they're looking at about half that and it's only a few years old so I don't believe that was I don't know who that appraisal came from if that was Champlain equipment what they said I don't know if they actually had an appraisal so we're still paying on that or we just bought it and lump sum you guys must have bought it so I think that what we need to do is find you know I would say let's find the value on it I mean obviously if it's if we can get $15,000 for it then we probably ought to sell it but if we can only get six for it maybe it's not worth selling it I'll take the six in my hand well I think that what you're going to do is put it out with a minimum bid let's like any piece of equipment you can buy something tomorrow for $30,000 and as soon as you take it home and fire up one time it's worth half that it's just the way it is yeah exactly yeah exactly that's why I think if you put it out if you put it out now you could put it out and you know we're obviously going to advertise it for towns and I don't know I mean you can fish around and see if there's another municipality would need something like that yeah let's see if we can get out of it the other thing was the SAVE that 1920s I asked Mo because Mo worked for Mosler for a long time that ridiculous thing that needs to go so I asked Mo about it I don't want to say that you can't lock it because one of these days someone's going to lock it and you're never getting into it again so we don't and Mo said that you could put you know if you jacked it up a little bit you could get the doors off and they could take the doors off but obviously it's huge apparently when they did some remodel they remodeled around it so I did ask Dave about it and he was like listen how are we how are you so he said that basically we'd have to go straight to get rid of it so what I'm hoping to do is which state is this it's not the town clerk's SAVE it's that one that's in between the town clerk's office the town manager's office you ever noticed it that huge thank you the little walkway there in the hallway Mo said that he thought someone might want it for a gun SAVE I don't know and then I just want it out and so we could reuse the space but the suggestion was we get someone to just come in and basically I get an estimate of what it's going to cost to take the window out get this thing out and then have somebody come in and basically take it for that or do we just give it away so once we get it through the wall they have to obviously take it with them and get it out I don't want to do with that thing but do you folks need to have a lockable SAVE no for the down office type stuff the town clerk has it all so she has all the land records are in there but no we don't and I don't know how they got it or I have no idea Jean told me she had one and she got rid of hers and she said they had to take something out to I don't know who's the door to get it out of there I personally don't care other than I wouldn't want to give something away for it to cost the town $5,000 to get it out of the building I'm knowing that whatever if it's reasonable I have no issue with whatever we do with it I'm hoping that basically they'll just pay to A, obviously they've got to come and get it out but I don't want any Tom, Dick and Harry to take the wall apart and then put it back I would rather have us control that but I want to get a firm estimate and find out how much it's going to cost to open that up and get rid of it but I have no idea how it got in there and I have no idea how to get it out but it would be nice to get it out because it's huge it's not really what we need we could put zoning in there and make this space a little more useful but as Mo if it was worth any money he said it may become $100 but it's just one of those things so we'll see who would be satisfied with some antique? I mean it's 1920s that's why I asked Mo I said does it have any value he's like I don't know he's making bias we've got one last job for you Doug yeah it's like trying to get the ship in that bottle it may get that safe as a yeah it may stay there forever I don't know they built that office around that safe he did say that they remodeled around don't take it out when you have the opportunity when you're remodeling they should just get rid of it then so anyway so I will get value from somebody on the Ventrax and it sounds like we're not using it so it's just rotting if we can make it worth our while I can't see why not so can I just have a motion to authorize to sell such work needs to approve what motion to authorize to sell the Ventrax Ventrax side work plow second on paper that's a question I could ask before on the zero turn purchase where they wanted the bagger and stuff with that yes that was the plan was to get a bagger but it seems like with a sale of if you could sell the Ventrax then you could buy the if you're going to buy a zero turn but to Ryan's point there's $10,000 more from 8 to 10 bagger and then we will have to buy a sweeper so sweeper's going to be for well if we're going to buy one we have to use a sweeper to catch them out on the Ventrax but it seems like maybe only the water park and he was to sit down on the road to the park sweeper was also going to have some light snow it's still holding the plow up to it it's sweeping the street the sidewalk with that it's still holding the plow up so that's why I report I'm not sure I don't know what the thought process was behind buying the Ventrax so but anyways that's the deal so just sitting there now nobody's using it we should get something back some of your money back alright any further on the Ventrax or safe? luck with the safe general fund budget so this is like I said this is the for better certainly have I didn't ask the department to come tonight because it was going to be the channel of the meeting and that way if you have questions I could get answers and you can go back and then we'll certainly advertise the other meetings so as far as revenues you know that's a little bit more than they were last year but not anything significant I'm making some changes to town clerk fees I know there's some questions about that about what we've budgeted and then what we got in and you know town clerk fees are just dependent on say how many people come in to buy property or transactions that are recorded in the land record so if you have any specific questions about the revenues I can answer them otherwise we can move on to the expenses okay the expenses is and I did try, you know as you can see I put in notes on the where it says 2021 notes talked about this so the big things we should talk about in public works are the the way it is in here is I did not budget for to replace the position that vacated after Doug Marshall retired so the theory is that we have Morgan who's you know does winter time obviously for the road group and then this year we brought in a temporary like a seasonal person from December 1st until the middle of April and since I'm in this budget and putting things out contracting out roadside mowing again ditching and some other things I think that the money that we're going to allocate towards that that they don't need another person so I think that I want to at least try this to see how it goes for the winter with right now they have Alan who took over Doug Marshall's route AJ does his route, Jason, Morgan and then the gentleman we have right now is Dave Bergeron who also works in the department and he's coming in to fill in and he's doing some sort of balance route and as well as sidewalks, so the sidewalks are actually open for the kids to go to school now so that's nice and let's see how the winter goes because I feel that by outsourcing some of these things it's been allowed the road group is going to be able to focus on improving class 3 roads that's why when you look down further you're going to see that the gravel budget is so increased because they need to start building up some of the roads so that's one of the reasons that the salary this line has dropped over 9% for public works personnel is because I'm thinking that we would give this a go and try to resunder hired services I don't know maybe I'm jumping ahead am I jumping ahead? 17,000 there Jim Geberti yep what is that? so the town of Bethel put in a dry hydra at Jim Geberti and somebody decided that when they were going to do that that existing pond had a 30 inch outlet in Colbert that went under the road and somehow when the town got involved in doing this dry hydra and installing it they downsized that pipe to 15 inch obviously his roads already been gone out once and I'm not even sure that dry hydra even works we're going to be testing that as well it was a nightmare it was a big overreach the pond was dredged I don't even know how it got weighted but what ended up happening is if that dry hydra doesn't work then the whole thing was a failure but we're now on the hook to fix that property so I'm going to take it back put back in a 30 inch which is what should have been in there originally we never should have downsized that and fix the the release for the pond I have an agreement with Jim that he will pay for any material that we need so we tear apart the roads obviously we're going to pay for the Colbert I'm hoping we can salvage the one that we put in 15 inch and to upsize it I'll put it back to what it was originally and short story is we we went in there and did way more work than the town should have on private land and now we have created a pickle and now we need to fix it so we put money in there to hopefully resolve the situation and move forward we're not going to work on private land so I have a contractor set to do the work that Jim and I agreed upon and if there's any we'll have to pay for the Colbert and the hours but if there's any material needed in the road put that back that he's going to pay for that he's going to pay for the seeding and all that when was that we're going to draw head on that two years ago a couple of years ago this is a bad situation that inherited that we're going to fix and then we're going to stay out of this mess but that's why it's in there so I may I estimated high but I needed to put a number right here for the budget so I'm going to try to double check on that number and then maybe I can draw this number but I have the something in here to get the draft budget out Colbert's flush I want to work with pipeline to get the rest of the Colbert's flush in Bethel that we didn't get this year the town can certainly dig them out but use them to come through and just get them flushed once and for all that way we know that everything's open and working so if you go back up to higher services or equipment you can see that I said that I wanted for the roadside going back out took two guys a month last year with and a piece of equipment and it just didn't work well so it would be nice to be able to just when we had it I was here and I think the first time whoever did it used to do it I remember that we didn't have any complaints people were very happy with the work in it so I think we need to do that again I think it was scheduling issues and I'll be chasing them later in the year because obviously they're following in on the places too well I think it's just going to be part of the big part of the mission well I mean it was you know they could only make one pass well that wasn't even our thing from another town that time was using when it needed to be used so we were trying to mow the wrong time of the year I mean it was just you'll see in the higher I've said for years the town crew has a job and all this other stuff we do they're not keeping the roads up so you'll see in the hired services that we added money to put it in there to put it back out to bid to do the roadside mowing and then some of the things that we haven't done forever that we need to start planning for and doing on a yearly schedule is things like ditching of roadway you know we don't have proper equipment to go in you know ditch roadway so we've built in some money that we feel is about three weeks worth of a year that we can bid out some excavator work you know we can we can use our trucks or I just know that that's not including stone lining no material included that's just machines so we'll bid it out by the foot but you know there's money in there so if we want to go get miles for ditching there's a lot of areas on the low lying not just in the mountain areas there's a lot of low lying areas that need attention to ditching if we had to go into a you know on the side of a hill then we could just cut the amount of time down so we've built some money in for that so the thought here isn't trying to tackle all of it it's what we're budgeting I figured three weeks in there and you know I guess it all depends on who does the ditching you know that's why we're talking about probably bidding out by the foot so that the responsibility goes on to the bidder rather than do it by the hour and you know one person can ditch this far and it'll take you and then there's some other things in there like tree cutting that's just for bigger trees because we've already there's some larger trees that naturally once a year that we have to cut down somewhere that hasn't been accounted in the budget in the past as well as there are some things that we haven't really been progressive on that we need to go and forward get out there and have some money in the budget at least to do some sort of the things that came up actually had not thought about it and then it actually came up again today was that I did not budget for because I think we should be doing it in-house which is Patrick because we've spent quite a bit of money this year on the black top the company's black top paid them over $14,000 and we just paid today to have the spot fixed on Main Street and you could have paid a tenth of that if you just bought the material and I would have volunteered my services many times but yet the water department and the highway department has not done it yet instead they want to outsource it so the next time you want to do $14,000 of the patching, sign me up I'll come down and do it, you give me the $14,000 and I'll I'm sure I'll get some helpers that will come help me and pay you really well but the point is I I mean you and I $300 was the package that's it we passed the one up in the town office it's like 300 bucks we did it just to find the people up as a state to the temporary fix it I'm always saying temporary now I guess but it was supposed to be done in a couple weeks I don't think it'll be done this year hopefully it holds up it's on the town, it's town responsibility the state's not doing that the driver was still between the state and the contractor they already rode off on it they're not doing anything to deal with it it's the town itself no one tells the town last time I was told by the state that it was stuck between the two parties and that the state hadn't signed off on the project so it was stuck between the two that's where it was stuck but anyways there's no question about this because I was asked a while ago if one of the trucks had a tarp and it does so here's my question we can buy additional mix to keep it warm to transport it from point A to point B don't matter that stuff stays so hot so long if that hole is ready by the time you pick it up in Lebanon and get it there, you don't even need a tarp no this is a hot box that's what we do a lot we can attach it to one it keeps it warm so you can do something for 8 hours so when you go to 11 and they fill this box and then you can just take it there when you're doing stuff you can drive around a patch hole in all the town are they expensive to purchase? there's no need for us to have all we need to do and I don't want to use the word lazy because all we need to do is drive one of our trucks down there and pay four or five hundred dollars and get your patching material I'm saying there's no money in here for patching which means that in the future they're going to have to patch on their own because the only thing that I have in here is I feel like there was a little bit of money patching material so two thousand dollars is in here for patching material but honestly this next year we're cutting over Main Street we will have dealt with half these issues the only thing that we legitimately paid for was out at Camp Brook Road when we had we paid for a couple of sections that were bigger for pavement it wasn't just patching but the two places that we patched were on Main Street so obviously next year that's going to take that up there's always going to have you're always plenty of money you can go patch any way more than what the town needs in a year for two thousand dollars it's a point of prioritizing our responsibilities because in this case we spent fourteen thousand dollars to go do these two patches what were we doing those days because we could have saved the town probably we could have saved the town easily twelve thirteen thousand dollars so what was so important that we couldn't patch those days it's been open months and there's a lot of days exactly and the one right out here it was just a parking spot so we could have had it dug out forever and just had it combed off and then when you get a day let's do it today spend to do that piece probably would have been four ton two hundred and eighty dollars and trucked it up here so that's the point is that I didn't put any money in here we didn't put any money in here for that for next year so with outsourcing of ditching and outsourcing of the tree more more time so it will have to be done in-house it should very easily be done in-house and it shouldn't cost much money in a year to patch topics so going forward that's going to be the deal is that it'll be done in-house so they're not going to be able to outsource it so the other thing is we had this conversation with the prior town manager and I had a different opinion about this so where I come from if the water department cut the pavement the water department owned the hole and while the road department may have to keep ground on it etc because the water department didn't have the staff to do that when it came time to actually pay or have it repaired it came out of the water these patches up here are water related and they should be dealt with they should not come to the town yes but the prior town manager said anything to do with the roads was the road department and not water but you did budget money and water so I was kind of curious it was too separate well I believe if it's cut by the water so the water department owns it but I'm not sure that was not the prior manager's take on the situation so we're going to address that around Tuesday so the idea of patching things would be to go patch potholes and gillian you know but if there's a water main break or water break and they have to stop at the pavement then that's the water department they should go under there that's why I feel that was not what the marching orders were given prior so I agree but anyway so there's not money for that so they're going to have to take it in the house but I was thinking that even with forcing roadside knowing and ditching and those sort of things there should be time for them to deal with this so then the other one was the salt budget so that obviously when I talked to Chris he reduced the budget from 100,000 to 60,000 so it actually took the time to do the math so we have 88 miles of road which we do if you remove the classical roads because we're not maintaining those in the winter then he leaves you the say 23 to 25 miles of pavement that we maintain then it only leaves you 23 to 25 depending on which to you take of road sustainment so and this year there's a different you know information because the person maintaining camp road last year is not maintaining camp road this year so so it's been turned down I do have Morgan keeping track of how much salt he's putting in the village and I have the rest of the crew keeping track of how much salt they're putting on camp road too so we can figure out what the cost is so it seems so Chris's thought was to reduce that to 60,000 dollars the chloride I reduced for a three-year average and then the gravel obviously I increased because we have some roads that we saw we didn't hit this time but we need to put some gravel on some of the roads to build it up when they're grading it and the sand budget I put 45-8 is the three-year average so I had looked at I took the calculation if you had you know I figured it on 60 miles worth of road and it's like 57 point something whatever but if you did if you did the calculations of say four days a week you spread material during the wintertime with the calculations of the rate that you should be putting it down at then I came up with about a hundred thousand dollars of material that you should need that's assuming you spread material four days a week now if you spread material four days a week probably not so there should be some savings there so like last year would you just calculate a dollar amount per mile no I just went into broke it down by the material amount based on those sheets that we had gotten oh yeah get in the freezer sander and this you know so last year we had between salt and sand we had 135,000 budgeted now we know that we've been pretty wasteful so we should see better than that and then this year we've got for this next budget we have 105,000 so we basically have cut $31,000 out of the sand and salt I still think that the salt could be better than 60,000 I think we get 50 or under but it's at least we're taking a step in the right direction here we're getting back to where we should be would you plan on an increase in the salt cost in your math I just used I added 10% from last year I mean again it's more reason why we should be using more sand and less salt I think that we're looking at it and going by the salt usage we were almost 2.5 times we used 2.5 times more salt than we probably should have on the road I think you see that even if you reduce it by that amount you're still going to get you're still going to get a comparable finished job that we've been getting but things like spreading salt and coming back down and plowing it off the road or doing it the wrong kinds or putting it on the wrong roads it has cost a lot of money of course if you're a truck driver and you have the option of taking the sand or salt it's all thrown back and it's a little easier for me to get things done but we also came out of a really tough winter too that should be on the high end you know you have that problem you drive around and it's like we don't wear old salt in places but if you look at budgets and going back on budgets the budget we had back in 2017 was $100,000 for salt it was $103,000 for salt slash sand so we're kind of getting our budgeting back to them of course in all those years we ran over by $10,000 or $20,000 a year but I think some of that was just the management of the material itself not the that we didn't have enough money in there the other thing in this under materials is guardrail I added a line item for guardrail and put $5,000 in there I'm going to call Brent here at Lafayette to see but there are some places where we need to do some guardrail work so I wanted to have that called out separately so that's in here and if you get down to the bottom you'll see on the right I made a note about bridges because we've been reading the bridge inspection reports but I think I was the only one reading them for the last few years so we made some notes in here about bridge 45 need some new posts and some paintings some of this stuff that the town could do they could go with power wash and paint some of this stuff watershed road that's a that's a mess and then the other one was some concrete overlays of painting and a cable rail upgrade and some of that we can do but one of the things that people don't think about is one of the questions that FEMA asks you is did you maintain this or did you maintain these culverts did you maintain this bridge well all they have to do is print out the bridge inspection report which they do do and they read them and if they looked if watershed goes out in the next flood they are not going to pay us for that because we did not maintain it so what we ended up doing was adding $35,000 for bridge material so we're not giving a bridge for 35 grand I get that we're going to have to leverage the $35,000 on the structures grant but then Prince was talking about maybe dead-ending watershed road so that watershed road doesn't have an outlet on the camp road that's maintaining road death that one gets created on the time watershed road so that's a possibility I mean there's not a house right there on the end and so I think again what we're doing is we're trying to establish some money well I mean we've added $35,000 we put it into the highway rehabilitation and it'll have its own you know side coding towards bridges but we haven't set aside any money to do any type of maintenance of any of our bridges so all we do is we wait until they something drastically happens and then we look for a structure grant and then we spend all kinds of money like we did two years ago on you know wing wall you know so but Chris it is an interesting thought is to if you don't if you move that bridge on watershed and then it just doesn't outlet onto camp road I mean well I think I was just thinking out of the box like what we did it's like what we did on route 12 when the bridge went out on route 12 I was just thinking like you know the old route 12 bridge when that went out we didn't put a new bridge in there we dead ended the watershed road there's people still have access on watershed I mean too so even if someone put a home back there they're from it just still probably on watershed it's not on camp road so they but it's something to think about but anyways so it was just something that we had not addressed in the budget and then it was actually funny because I actually had a conversation with Brian about after when we set aside some money but I had been reading them because of FEMA that was one of the things with Pinello and everything else is looking at line bridge you know it's why we had to pay for some of that gravel to come out from line bridge to state that FEMA was going to pay for majority of that as debris removal but we had to pay for some because prior bridge inspections told them that they should have been removing debris in the head so we had to pay for more than our 12 and a half ERAP on there is that bridge 39 is that the one in the special it is yeah for our help I go over that quite often and the other thing in class is where I put in ERAP so the 118,000 will pay our ERAP our ERAP is our share of FEMA spending which is 12.5% so this will pay 12.5% 860,000 does not include the permanent bridge on Pinello nor does it include the p-vine slide over here engineering or construction but obviously we need to take care of it so it made sense to be paid over time or have to be paid in one chunk no we need to pay it now so you could take out a loan but I don't recommend it because why not take it out of the Highway Rehabilitation Fund because that's where that money went into the roads well we're not really taking it out of the Highway Rehabilitation Fund well we're just not putting it in we're just not fully funding the Highway Rehabilitation Fund next year and then we won't next year either because the other thing too is we have next year we're going to have to finish up those other projects $100,000 worth of ERAP that we're going to have to on the next budget as well and the thing is too by the next round one of the things that you get back which we would normally account for and I did not account for and this number is like any of the work that the town does obviously we get reimbursed for labor and those things are coded here but we'll get the FEMA established as equipment rates so there's some money that we'll come back on that we'll get back from using trucks and the greater etc and that amount will help offset our next round that's if FEMA pays us within two years I was going to say how long is it to take the FEMA if Irene's any history? Well Irene was extreme this is we have finished the work I'd say you haven't done it in two years I see FEMA every week just as it comes in and as people work and I've signed off on a bunch of projects so hoping that the turnaround is as fast as it gets Irene was a whole different burden so I'm going to verify the Uber E-Price I'm going to try to see if I can get that down a little bit and I need to call Brent to figure out the price and see if I have the right number in there the other thing to talk about oh we haven't got to it under the part under the public works I'm sorry yeah under public works so we have we have a few things here for the cemetery so our typical budget for the cemetery is 30,000 which is basically mowing and but there's also there's two things that need to be done at the cemeteries one is the one is the fence at Fairview which has been estimated at $5,000 and then estimated at $10,000 for the wall at Cherry Hill that we talked about several times that's a $20,000 project but they said that we could do that over like in two years so it's 10 grand a year so so one thought anyways is one thought is we can increase the budget from 30 to 45 and take care of the cemetery issues or we could leave it at 30 and we could have those two as add ons to the budget which typically we do a few add-on of the year to get voted on separately so I don't know how the board feels about 15,000 is almost one penny on the tax rate so it's well I'm just saying we've only started to get into it but we're seeing a lot of additional we're going to get to the end don't want to fall brave it's okay we're going to get through this we took it out of your check it's all set he's also seen some reduction he's also seen some reduction he's also seen some reduction so you've increased my pay to $20,000 he does the work he's also seen some reduction and there will be some more changes so I'm just going to go on record saying I don't like the add-on add-ons I haven't liked it since I got the because the residents have the right to look at any piece of the budget anytime but when you vote on it you're voting on it as a whole anyway the only problem with that is devil's advocate if someone stands up at town meeting day and says I'm just playing devil's advocate someone stands up and says I don't want the fence or the wall $15,000 cutting it out of the budget $15,000 and let's say it goes through they can't tell us where the item is so we could chop 15 grand out of the budget still do the wall and still do what I take it out of something else where if you vote on it at least there's an ownership there of the voters that the voters wanted to increase the funds for the summer you also could not do the work or but I think that's part of this work per view obviously they let you because they feel that you're good stewards and you're going to do what you do to tell you where to cut the and see the thing in the past is that has happened a few times where someone has stood up and it was I don't know five years ago someone stood up and they cut $54,000 out of the budget thinking that they were going to get this, this and that it was my first year so the first thing I had to do when I came on the board was now we need to find $54,000 what did they think they were cutting? all they asked they just arbitrarily cut $54,000 out of the budget and then they so they cut $54,000 out of the budget and then they added all the ads so we had to go on the budget to cut $54,000 because all the ads equal $54,000 oh I see so it was like double didn't and I mean I know typically we have you know anywhere between one and four of them a year that we vote on separately I mean we could either just put it in there and add it or we could add it separately and as you will in the end I'm just saying but the other thing under other public works is you'll see livery stable AVON storm grains so I budgeted $190,000 over five years to 3% my hope is that we could fire out from our own revolving loan fund committee and then pay ourselves back basically the town back interest 3% but so this was one of those situations where for me it was like okay we're gonna have this road cut open do we deal with the storm drains at the same time because my concern was what if we go back in a few years and then we cut into the new pavement and you know because then we look stupid but in this case it was two separate trenches because they have to be like five feet apart so I'm sure you can see the water line but anyways but still so that was Chris's question was are we gonna pave the entire road because obviously this stuff washes down into the main onto the main drag and you have the pictures there so I was just trying to figure out how to do it if we were going to do it and we don't have the money to set aside to do it so I was this is my thought but I was gonna ask do anybody give you or do you have a number we just went fix the storm drains and that's all we did well the $190,000 we were given a budget of $180,000 to $200,000 to do it based on recent prices that I got from Wayne from Aldrich and Elliott on some projects that they had done now he's obviously been busy with some water projects so he was just giving me a ballpark so I went with him so I put $190,000 I understand that that $190,000 if we weren't going to do the water line so if we are going to do the water line he may say save some savings you don't have to put it in you're gonna save all the station you got your truck you're buying a lot more material I'd be surprised if it it can't cost much to do it in conjunction as it would to do it by itself no I'm sure there will be some percent of views here the expensive guy is saving price the expensive I don't I think the issue we're gonna have with that is not the point that I think we all agree that it needs to be addressed but it'd be one thing if you were gonna say $41,500 for one budget year but you're gonna have to commit to this for five budget cycles so it's two pennies two pennies on the tax rate for five years in a row that's the tough thing for me to swallow because I know and go back to when Carl was on the board when we started to write this ship of the budget in town being a realistic budget and obviously we had cost issues that were happening that we weren't efficient but on the budget and the things we had committed to the voters that rather than do big spikes and valleys that we would try to bell curve this thing with a 3% take at this for a period of time until we can get operating town what it costs you know the only thing with this right now is if we do the storm water unless we cut other places if we do the storm water that puts us above that 3% that we have kind of talked about as a norm in town it would add two more percent to the budget so it's a it's something to think about I can certainly get an email you know and Tim's right it needs to be done the same thing is there's a lot of things in this town that need to be done and we can't write the ship in one or two years it's going to take some time maybe it won't be as efficient as we'd like it to be with painting or whatever it is it was a thought I was appreciative that he was thinking of the big picture and saying look while we have this town torn open we'll look at what that's going to cause I said yeah you're right we should look at it have they sculpted like are the pipes gone or are they just the structures he has structures a lot cheaper to change than the whole drink right what I saw was the water was getting to the drain to the DI's so does that just need to be repaired instead of painting all of it we don't know they did they did actually let me find out because they were in a weeks ago maybe three weeks ago and they were scoping them so let me I agree with David he said the pipes would be 5 feet apart so they could go over they could put them both in one trench and bury I don't know it has to come to sense but well you're pretty much going to tell that the whole road up it's going to be a little wider and put the other one in and Tim had said that they could leave the water line which is going to cut down on that but how much water does it want to take in the middle of the hill so let me ask him because they did scope them so let me find out so that was my question is there something we can do to make them you know right if they're not clogged is there something we can do as far as directing the water down through the end so we don't have them necessarily because so basically so was the DI or the pipe so let me find out what the results were because maybe Tim knows but I have not heard so I can email Mike to find out so that's a good question for next time to find out um so that's a little thought process what else so the backhoe in the international are paid off so you can see where I just added that money that was coming out the loan payments back into the highway equipment trust fund and I did look and that matches the schedule so that's when you see it's paid off just going back into the capital fund fire department I actually started processing their fire so I'll have a better idea on that $25,000 number um next in two weeks because I'm just doing it now they get paid once a year um obviously you can see that they want to update some radios I gave you some pricing there finishing the backside of the station some materials but that's something that you can certainly go over with the fire chief but um I'll have a better number for the payroll the constable department can you go back to the safety and equipment fund for the fire department that's a one that we hadn't budgeted for in the past or is that just the it is it's just that the loan payment one of the payments will need to be paid off so I did the same thing for them that I did for the highway all together it's supposed to be like $60,000 or whatever that kind of gets a lot into every year so um the constable so obviously I'm sure at this point you all have heard that um Oscar took a full time job working with the town of Royalton it was in the newspaper um Royalton minutes starting December 1st um he does not sure what his schedule there is going to be as far as and I told him that I want to know what the schedule is going to be so we can talk about it some more um whether he's going to be able to continue working for Bethel at 20 hours a week after he's doing 40 hours a week for them um so I guess that's to be determined so in the meantime I did speak to him about um the cruisers that needed some work um specifically that there was some issue with the suspension and if I remember correctly that's this year the capital plane is up to be replaced this year pretty sure it's going to be another year or two excuse me that's going to be another year or two we just started the fun last year no capital cruiser so in in 2021 yeah because you were only um allowing $12,000 that was for the cruiser and the fit up so we were taking the appropriation from last year plus the appropriation for this year and assuming that hopefully sell you know the um 2014 court interceptor would be worth something so it's actually in the budget for 2021 so we'll see that works out but that's why the 32 um $3200 is cruiser needs work because it has a front suspension issue he has tires so that's not an issue that thing is so much newer than than the um Tahoe I don't know how long we had it I think we well we got one mark when Mark came over we bought it used from another department I think it was 3 years ago I think 3 years ago we bought it from county maybe or something something like that sounds about right so I don't know I'm just saying that's what's in the schedule so we'll see if it doesn't need um because the other thing too is I had asked him because he told me it might need a water pump and then my understanding I said visit a timing chain belt because a timing belt don't you replace the water pump and the timing belt at the same time isn't that usually what the process is so anyways he didn't know the answer so he was going to come down but um so that's why that's in here and then so that's up a little bit um we added a line item for uniforms that wasn't in here in the past I kept them at 20 hours a week um because that's what the original you know thought was for 20 hours a week so we'll have to see um I'm not sure what's going to happen now um Mark had taken out the cell phone and then Oscar has one and the internet so we put that back in the budget so on on the rec department is the um I see the wages are going up a little bit yeah wasn't Dietrich wasn't she talking about having less lifeguards there when she was in last time she is and um but I'll tell you in the past um when I did this budget I was basically just given a number and not given any parameters so this time I actually took how many weeks how many head lifeguards how many you know at the rates that they were going at and plus um she was going to you know a couple of coming back a fire salary I actually figured this based on real salaries this time so um a lot and it's run too close so it may come in a little bit under but yeah I was just going back and looking you know we had year prior was 38,000 year before that was 32,300 well remember she said whether she was going to go a week longer or a week shorter so I actually ran this on amount of hours now I may have um they'll be real because remember now she's saying that she might try to close early a couple days so you're probably going to come in under that but I was trying to budget instead of just being told to throw $40,000 and they actually want to base it on hours and wages so that's what I did um let's see uh so the rec facility I the rumor metal is said and I will find out for sure next meeting because I've heard that they want $15,000 $5,000 for trails and $10,000 for the state park but um I had originally budget only $5,000 but Chris said that in the past you guys had some agreement with the rec committee that you would put 10 yeah the base that forever agreement or just like for 20 years the base amount was $10,000 based on the um based on the recreation plan there was there a total cost on that thing there was um I don't know what it was but um we had started putting $10,000 in there that was kind of the base a lot of the amount every year and then at the gate then it like you know went to 20 and I think one year went to 40 or something and then last year we brought it back down to the normal $10,000 level okay so I should come and make her pitch to you I just put I put 5 but Chris said 10 so we put 10 in there still don't have a real plan for the skate park well I told her we exchanged emails because she asked me I said you're supposed to tell me when you hear back from the contractor when you come in December 9th or you know it's like we're waiting for you to work back our number from the contractor so um I think that but that 10 in the budget there is to be put for the improvement fund not for the skate park so that's that's to do the next pieces of the plan I mean we've already given the rec department the budget for the skate park not to exceed I think we had it in there whatever it was so so this 10 that we have in there would just be put in the rec improvement fund for the future projects that were part of that master plan so yeah I'll just see what her you know her pitch is parks and public places are the basically the part of the conversation we were having earlier about the wages in here retirement help and that's all and in this round it's 27.5% because I actually knew what he actually was doing for mowing and I could quote a wage to that then I could figure out his actual percentage of time so that's how I came up with those numbers you say it was mowing three and a half days a week three to three and a half days per week they work four remember they work four tens so wouldn't that percentage be higher well I have to look at this whole year because I have to figure out how many weeks from April to this summer and then how many well during the winter yeah so I think we'll do them, I think we'll do them out so that's where you're at right there minnows ball office wages you can see this has dropped because I hired D. Tree Beanie and today is her first day working in the office so we're going to try to figure this out between so she's going to work for me doing some of the bookkeeping and the writing and she only wants to work 30 hours a week so she started today I started training her on how to do water bills and sewer bills so we'll see how it works for the summer we're going to give it a go so that actually reduces the position so I had a full-time job but it's dropped to 30 hours a week and D. Tree does not require you know benefits so that's why you see the savings in this budget here to go back to park beautification we got the money in there for the the estimate for the gardening stuff that's what that is so there's some building maintenance in here I need to get some firmer numbers but I had to throw a number in here I have just I got some samples out of the in the town office upstairs some samples I have to mail to figure out there's no light then they have a fund where you can get like 50% of the cost to remediate it because I need to get that dealt with before I deal with electrical upgrade so because it's not 100 amp service in the building so I had budgeted that's why the budget went from 3500 to 8000 so I'm going to look again at the capital building plan but I know we're looking at town I'm trying to figure out what my costs are going to be but I need to put a number in here for the budget for increases in wages 30% and just to know right through in here doesn't mean anybody's going to get it just because I threw it in here to calculate the only additional other to buy an item in here is the county count and as of January 1st they're going to process our payroll which takes care of quarterly taxes etc which is going to be I calculated I did the math and figured out what it would cost us to process actually a little bit cheaper so I'm going to outsource payroll which was another reason so that Petri could make her less hours and certainly saving more the money than that that I'm going to process so we're still out here for the work for the payroll though? yeah but what happens now is it's because you just have to fill in a spreadsheet that goes to them on Monday morning they send us back the full packet with the journal entry so we'll figure out how that's going to work worst case scenario, select board will make a motion to authorize the county transfer to payroll and you guys will move it on a monthly basis or something but we'll cross the bridge and we'll get to it town hall I took the wages out of town hall because we're not paying anyone for you know, Kelly's here Pam is here, Deetre is here it's coming out of their own wages so that's why there's a decrease in this budget as well also there was some insurance cost, that was a reduction I did increase the building repair a little bit just because we need to have some a little bit of maintenance done in here so I have that a little bit but there's still 8.8% decrease in this budget just like there's a 9.5% decrease in municipal offices which I may be able to reduce once I get some better costs on my So the fire arms system in here do you need this work? Nope, we need to get some windows cleaned in here I think we have some places in here that need a little bit of paint touch up and you guys put a bunch of money into it I think you got that task listed I just thought what comes out of that budget is task over my elevator cleaning supplies, windows made so just kind of giving you an idea of what goes into that do you need to increase and select for the salary? No, I don't need that but I did a bunch of your FICA METI which has to come out of there anyways so that's why it's an increase but it's it's just for FICA METI blisters we talked about this I put $10,000 in here for assessor services because we don't know what we're going to have here in the next question time who's going to be interested in being a lister and who's not where as a case scenario you end up with an assessor and maybe Judy or somebody working in the office but I talked to Louise again about it and like I said done some research with other towns to see what they're doing and everybody's kind of having the same problem that we are trying to find listers that we need good ones so that's where we're at with that government operations that's a decrease of less than 1% that's town meeting, town reports I put less money in town reports because we won't need as many changed in here just a little well the advertising number is that doesn't have anything to do with the town report or does it? Advertising? That has to do with your job advertising for highway or town manager for you know zoning planning meetings that sort of stuff So it's been $42,505,000 or whatever because we're looking for a town manager and those were expensive ads and then we were looking for highway person then if you were looking for a bookkeeper actually I don't even want to add so that's why it was so pricey but if the stuff right now we won't be looking for anybody operations local stuff I just said I assume level funding when I can obviously I'm waiting I had level funded human services but we ended up adding another $2,350 just because you've been adding in the past I'm not sure any certain deals that you may or may not have with um stage coach Well I noticed that in the for the human services side that it looks like we haven't paid out a lot of the ones that we were committed from No I don't usually pay out I pay them out usually in November it's usually mine we've got a couple tax collections under our belt so we should pay everybody out in November and I had talked to Neal Fox the other day he's the work of budget I dropped by 2% but I just got something emailed today and I haven't had chance to open it yet from Steve Webster so I may have a better um number or I will have a better number for this next time uh long term debt is down about a percent that's just because you're paying just so so all in all where we sit right now I just got the new bill for NEMRIC so they went up in their rate so I have to adjust for that but total expenditures looking at this budget are up 5.68% and like I said a big piece of that loan is possibly doing that but not to be raised by taxes will be 4.88 so I think once we go through it again and we get a couple questions answered and you guys you know mull over a couple things you'll you know that storm that payment for the storm drains the loan is you know that's a big chunk of money right there I see Chris running his calculator I know we're in the hole for the table instead of half a percentage probably so is that what you're doing Chris? yeah I'm just kind of going through a few things here so if you take out that loan payment well if you take out well this is anyways what I was thinking anyways that love but if you take out the storm drain piece and then I had taken 2,000 out of the fire department wages and 4,000 out of the wreck wages and 2,000 out of the White River Valley ambulance 2% so if you take those costs out and don't change anything else here then that would be an increase of $48,200 over last year which is 2.5 cents so in our promise to everybody was to what's a percentage does that make your 3.6% so in our kind of promise was to keep it as keep it in around 3 cents so that would be half a cent under but if you look at it we're also paying off $118,000 with the debt which if you look at it that way if this past spring didn't happen then that's 5 cents that we're going to make up somehow so if we didn't have the issues that we did have this spring we could be sitting here with a budget that's a cent or two under last year's budget but we do need to retire our debt and we're going to have more debt to come because we're going to have probably at least the same amount of debt next year on the projects that didn't get done this year that will be done next year so I mean that's a good thing because it's basic we just swallowed that horrible $1.4 million to clean up that so I think it's great that we can retire now without paying interest without going through that and being responsible to take care of it now and the good thing is you've got two other things you know you've got three other things paid off so which is going to mean that money can go into capital fund for savings so you've also not even retiring that $118,000 you're retiring those two pieces of highway equipment and one fire apparatus so that's a good thing what do we do with the sewer of the storm drain project that's just what you see let me talk to you know what Brian said is good let me ask them what they saw when they spoke to it because they were here I don't know friends together one last three weeks maybe and I don't know what the outcome of that was so he's right because they're you doing the drop in limit or are you just doing the price it's a big difference I mean if we could do the job and only take a hit I mean it's where right now if we're going to take a hit for four or five years you know two pennies for four or five years I mean and it's also going to be tough because don't forget you're also going to be looking down at the you know you have the the bond, the water bond which I imagine it's still very hope I mean it's still a great project and it's still is a saving you know it's going to that bond gate is going to hit the users the water users that we're still going to see a reduction in that four dollars that we have talked about but still it's just you know how it takes so much of the time but I think that we fix some of the issues like what we're going to try to do in the town office is we can try to work a little bit more you know like by outsourcing payroll and things just like sourcing ditching and some of those things if we can take care of some of that and we don't need this you know we don't need the other highway person that's a good savings and you know let's face it everybody just needs to become way more accountable for their time and everybody needs to start pulling their weight and doing the jobs they're hired to bottom and I think it's kind of like last year I mean last year we had the budget I remember right last year the proposed budget really was about one percent just over one percent but we took the other two percent put away for you know putting into our funds to start futuristic I mean if we wanted to I mean if we wanted to be the old administration we could come in here and chop out a bunch of stuff and probably give everybody a one or two penny decrease next year but the thing is we're not going to be looking out for you know some of these things that we'll come back to haunt us for you know it costs three times more money to do once they're broken but yeah so no I'm going to I think for our first staff at it you know you know that's not bad so we'll have people come in next week and make sure that now this year for road department I think it's 5G to see her case there's just a budget about their budgets and it's good to make sure the department's obviously you're going to ask questions that are wondering but unfortunately I mean the whole thing you know the spring flooding really is what you know killed everything for us well I mean we would have been well we would have been able to we would have been able to keep funding our our funds right and you know we probably could have been funding we could have been we could have level funded our funds in our budget and given money back to the taxpayers but you know we lost 5 cents on the flood yeah so if this proposal right now if we do a few of those cuts that we were talking about if we end up at two and a half cents I mean that really could have been a minus two and a half the flood we could have funded everything the same yeah true sorry I will look into a couple things on my end and make sure that I am so I am still going to be starting an equipment committee because we're still going to have some issues so I'm going to be asking people like Brian and Jeff Dillman and a few other people to like when before the town makes purchases they're going through a committee that knows equipment and understands the processes before it comes to the select board so the select board can now look at having a select board member be the liaison to that committee I think Mo might have been interested in before like I said I'm working on the highway access policy just so you know the tenant office is closed Thursday and Friday this week if somebody is off on Friday they have to take it at the vacation day I'm not sure I'll probably be working but the office itself will be closed Pevine part of the deal for Pevine going out having that slide replacement part of that RFP was for DuPois and King to provide us with a road closure policy like we're going out and if someone goes off it's straight down so part of that was for DuPois and King to do a traffic study so that they have to follow all the standards and have that we have we're going to close a portion of Pevine right there where that slide is because if somebody goes off there's nothing there they're going right down over so I should be getting that point this week and then Alan will have to we'll get whatever we need for you know signage and etc put in there and that will also be covered by the RFP but I was given a tip from Brisbane that there's a town that bought a whole bunch of Jersey barriers and maybe he's not going to need them the house might be able to buy some somebody else we'll see Kelly started working on town court so that's underway I did go to the DRB meeting the other day and they did okay the down lighting for the skate park ice, not skate park skating, excuse me so they did approve of that female like I said is ongoing I still have a little piece that we need to finish but Jessica comes every week so we're just going through the process getting all the paperwork in and all that I'm still trying to find contact for the rail road I should have asked you somebody who ended up being in Canada for the rail road we have one thing off the bridge and this like word was thinking that I needed to talk to the local you know you got time now we're not going to paint it now wait until spring that only contact I had was a million person in Canada and so I emailed them and they emailed me back but they haven't been able to give me anybody yet so so I'm going to go to VRI meeting the next one in December I talked to Lindsay about that and we are going to be updating the sign of John Campbell Road again thank you to Ryan who came in and had some questions about what we're going to do with Campbell Road and calls and the night that we have had you know we had somebody up there the other day on his tires and trying to get him off the hill and so we chat about that so that was very helpful North Tracks is coming tomorrow to do some work on Rader and I had worked with AJ and asked him you know the guys there haven't given us a price on that so that's going to be a big deal for whether or not we do the Rader this year or the next budget cycle was figuring out what's wrong with the Rader and you know whatever the issues with it how much is it going to cost do something to it and try it so that we can actually have that'll be the first thing on to the equipment committee will tackle as to we'll know what's wrong with the existing Rader and figure out what we're going to do next for a piece of equipment so um that was it so once we find that out that could be obviously helpful information I told AJ out the guide to do something in writing so that we have some idea what if anything all is wrong with it and how many hours it has on it and what you know what could be the future of that piece of equipment so I'm hoping that it has some pleasure hours on it that won't work hours so maybe we could push that purchase down the road but I need some information so that was it questions on the town manager report and we had select board meeting minutes from the 12th Kelly is like I said she'd updated the book for you I hadn't done it since she left I'm sure she was out so she so on the last paragraph of the last page of the report it says L. Bolshy made my break into executive session about the paragraph the board excited executive session 8.36 oh that was really exciting what was it? I was excited I was excited we were excited oh thanks okay perfect anybody else? it entertains a motion to amend the meeting minutes approve the meeting minutes as amended okay all in favor? I completely missed that who was the motion? you were this is a new package so if you want to go at least just all the old ones that we need to sign yes the constable had some yeah I don't I don't understand his report I asked Kelly to print something out and put it in the package start time 9.45 end time 13.58 total hours one the next one is 12 hours actually and he's got .25 I have no idea I have no idea I thought he was going to give you something else he was it's hard to tell him about doing something different it just doesn't happen well I'll speak to him again he's going to be on tomorrow tell him that he seems to fix his reporting well it doesn't seem like it's calculating properly the report doesn't do anything it doesn't make any sense I'll start with one of those and give it to him but in the end that will be described anyway it's for so any other business coming before the board just a quick revisit of December reporting dates the second meeting of December we talked about it being on the 23rd is that the fourth it's the fourth I'm going to definitely be out of town I could call in but I just wanted to check in if anyone else has a conflict we wanted to move it if not I'm just going to call in I'm not sure you don't have to it's a holiday might not be in town either this is why I was thinking about it if I was having a conflict Christmas is on for Wednesday right yeah so do you want to do it the week prior I'm going to be heading out on Monday I've been trying to do it the week prior what is that it's the 16th 18th December 18th no that's the 16th December is 9 years and 16th so do you want to do the 9th and the 16th fine with that mine looks good right now but I haven't gotten my basketball so I could blow everything out but we'll just we'll go with that as it comes does that work for you Dave I'm going to be right after Christmas I'm going to be 23rd it really works for me up to Christmas day okay and I can do the 23rd or the 16th let me firm up my plan so it's on the agenda for next time I'll talk to the folks and I'll see what you then will know about and then will you have your basketball schedule by next week Chris the games I haven't gotten yet but will you by next by December 9th will you I hope so yeah 9th is our next one alright so I'm going to put 16th or 23rd question mark and we'll slide on the 9th did anyone have any questions on the budget before it was in there the video you can email okay I'm going to take my motion to adjourn