 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. This is probably the biggest audience I've ever seen on the stage. Cool Same with me. My name is Jörg Dürre and this is Yeah, my name is Gunnar Tölle We'll show you how to power stuff without paying Wattenfall, Ion, the National Grid, whatever value from and without paying anything at all basically. There's a small small piece of Equipment that you need. Cool. First things first. Where's this? It's not the moon. It's not Mars. It's Iceland. You might have heard of Iceland. It's a country full of ice and There's no sun in winter, but still they power their gadgets like this one This photovoltaic power Seems to work. So why not make it work for you? It's a bad quality of that photo anyway. The photograph isn't too good. I'm sorry for that. Let's see if this thing works Yeah, wonderful Who came by train or by car? Show of hands, please. Oh Wow, that's a lot You might have seen loads and loads of square kilometers of solar panels in Brandenburg around Berlin You might have seen loads of windmills You can have some too. One of those costs at least one million euros, if not more To generate enough electricity for a village. So you don't need a big one. Well, we'll show you a small very short introduction into physics we'll keep it short and What's more important? We'll show you how much power you can actually get from the sun or from wind or whatever and Then we'll make you calculate how much power you need Who of you have got laptop with you? It's quite a lot. Wonderful. It's a cash computer club and Did you bring your power brick? Your net style in German? Cool, we can do it and Then we'll show you what you need Then we'll tell you to Google for the schematics and What's much more fun how to put power into the electricity grid? because you're what the Sun shows the Sun and Very little. This is our Sun. It's a 500 watt Baumarkt Sun We intend to actually put electricity into the Berlin grid right on stage. Let's see if this will work Yeah, nobody, please tell anybody because it's not really correct, but we tell you later I don't know if it's actually illegal. Is it? later You've heard of renewable energy before I suppose do you read newspapers? Yes, you do There's a lot of sources You've heard of photovoltaics. It's what what you can see here You've heard of wind power and then there's a lot of strange other stuff There's in France. There's a place which makes power from the tides Or you could actually drill down into the ground and get electricity from that That's loads and loads of opportunities most important one is the Sun and If you think about it Most of the other stuff you can use that's the Sun Water flowing down rivers can be turned into electricity easy That's solar energy Can you tell me how? Well, I'll tell you it's because the Sun evaporates water from the sea and gets transported to the mountains rains down you've all seen that in elementary school and Flowing water gets electricity You could actually use the kinetic energy of moving planets Sounds weird, but that's what those plays in France does it makes electricity from the movement of the moon around the earth Yes Are there physicists here? I know at least one and You will notice that Generating electricity from the movement of planets should slow down the movement of planets Yes, it does but also what What's really quite funny is You can even use atomic power and it's called renewable energy It's when you drill down into the ground three or four kilometers deep you get one hundred or one hundred twenty degrees hot water Okay, turn into electricity That's actually made from radioactive decay of metals in the earth core and From residual heat from the big bang So it's 5050 I would love to do that privately But we have to invent a real cheap drilling machine then so if anybody feels Motivated go ahead, please then we make it green This light will show you and clear and easy to remember colors green and red What's good for you at home, and what's not good for you because it's too expensive Too difficult too big Our recommendation is use the Sun Easy cheap Doesn't make any noise. No dirt Wonderful you can use wind at home Do you have a garden or balcony? Yeah, so you can use wind power and In theory if you're living near stream you can actually use Flowing water, that's a rare occurrence, but some do You know Next slide now engineers are creative This is one wonderful power plant here It actually runs on the difference of salt concentration in water. Do you know a place where? Water with different salt concentrations meet It's where river flows into the sea and It can be done through a process called osmosis and It has been done once If you know how to make a good osmosis membrane, please come forward and have a talk here next year So we can turn all over with our mouse into electricity generating machines Then a strange idea of Gona again just build a very small dam here and then the water evaporates here in the Mediterranean And then we have a good power plant here, but maybe maybe later Well, it's not actually my plan, but it could it could be done because say the Mediterranean It loses more water than its rivers put in If you damage here The Mediterranean Sea will evaporate You'll get huge amazing beaches You will get well you might probably get earthquakes due to the missing rate of water And you will get a really really high difference of water levels at this point Can be turned into electricity, but we shouldn't do that quest question Sounds good, doesn't it? You should you should repeat the question the question and it wasn't really a question But it was 200 meters for some 10,000 square miles of desert sounds good Let's do it tomorrow Well, there's some more physics left What's energy? Energy is the ability to do work That's all do you like club matter you probably do that's a form of stored energy Why because if you drink it you can do work Question for the audience, please calculate the energy content of club matter in kilowatt hours It's it can be measured like all physical variables Well in kilowatt hours That's what your electricity company Bills you kilowatt hours go look it up It has to be There's a difference between kilowatt hours and what What what What isn't energy it's power the more power you need some more energy per time You need the last line is from gunna for the technical it audience that kilo actually means 1,000 not 1,024 So you are all set aren't you Next slide Well, that's enough physics for now About the Sun the Sun is shining all day all night not always in Berlin, but so what And it's shining at a very constant rate of 1.361 kilowatts per square meter That sounds like quite a lot you compare that to your laptops power requirements later And there are quite a few problems The clouds and there's the problem is the more the newer you get to the poles the less Sun you get in winter Well, there's winter and Then there's the thing about efficiency those photovoltaic panels over here They only convert about 10 to 15 percent of the Sun into electricity that's old stuff and About the longitude and the solar constant basically wherever you go you can just move the Solar panel according to the Sun to get the maximum input then as we are now based in Berlin You can calculate how much Sun you get in a year and What's a quite realistic number is 100 kilowatt hours per square meter in year in Berlin? most of that is in summer and Only a few kilowatt hours in winter. We'll talk about storage later But we won't tell you too much about how to calculate how much Sun you get because there's the Internet have you heard of the Internet? Yes In Germany follow this link choose the place you are living at and You can even enter the Form of your roof on your house, and it will calculate how much power you get Easy don't need to do it yourself and some Some cities have something called a Zollacher Taster Is there anyone here who doesn't speak German? Yeah, that's not too much. You're left out now. Sorry and But We've got imagery so you can understand what it is a Zollacher Taster is a pretty fancy Measurement technique. What you do is you fly over a city You measure the roof And you make a map of which roof in your city is Good to get solar power from let's see for bullet Ravi Well, you don't have laser pointers we're here in this Every photograph of Berlin area around Alexanderplatz red is It's very good for solar power yellow means it's not so good and I would have picked green That's Berlin for you Go look that up if your city has one and your roof is perfectly suited to solar energy usage do it If there is no solar caster for your place Please go upstairs Find those people with those small drone like helicopters with those four rotors. I don't know how they are called and Just ask them Yeah, we learned something else today. Maybe social hacking could also work Just ask your local politician and demand something like that Get it who knows Yeah, then there's wind if the Sun isn't shining at your place, who knows the wind might be blowing How do you find out how much wind is at your place you could go out and stick your finger into the air That's not very scientific and it doesn't actually get you any numbers. Okay. No, and you get you get you try this now How much wind is this? Not too much. Sorry and Can you fix it here? And this be Sorry doesn't work That's a problem with wind it's different at every place you can't calculate it You have to actually measure or at least forecast wind speeds As you know from traveling to Berlin the wind is now a commercial commercially interesting resource This poses problems for us Is anyone of you rich? No So we have to get to wind data for free There's one source in the internet right here What it gets you is wind maps like this The resolution isn't too good if you are researcher if you are employed at the university Go and try the British Atmospheric Data Center. They are really good They have wind data from all over the world But they'll only give it to you if you research with wind data Who if you can do this? Nobody too bad Well, I forgot to talk about fluctuations, sorry You might have noticed that the Sun isn't shining all day at a constant rate Let's go back and If the cloud is passing you don't want your laptop to turn off do you? You have to deal with fluctuations For photovoltaics fluctuations happen on our order of one minute, maybe You all have witnessed clouds passing over your place They go by in one minute Deal with it For wind it's easier Wind is a bit more constant. You have fluctuations on the order for about 15 minutes more or less You have to deal with that too, but it's less difficult We'll talk about energy storage later How do you actually get electricity from wind? I'll use one of those if you've got money those are So so horribly expensive this thing produces about 50 watts You'll know what what says now and it costs more than 800 euros or 1,200 US dollars It's too expensive. Sorry. So build it yourself. It can be done from car alternators Google for it Actually, that would be interesting somebody have Has to do it because those small wind machines are extraordinary Expensive even though if you ask in China the small wind machines you can't pay So if anybody feels like it, please go for it Really there was a market niche here do it please well Now you know how much energy you can get or at least you can look it up How much energy do you need to power your stuff? That's a question We've got a microphone, but it doesn't if you're interested in wind energy. There's actually a small book I think or maybe to know by a guy who's actually called a care huck here in in German and They are very good background material and he also has some nice statements about the quality of these wind machines that you can buy from China And then you'll probably wait a little bit more for before you get one yourself That was our conclusion. So we left out went for the rest of the speech if I may add There's a series of books. It's called a Einfälle statt abfälle invention instead of Waste and he describes windmills up to I think 700 watts or so and he builds them from waste you all you need is an old car and Some more stuff you can actually visit that guy. He lives in Kiel That's about 400 kilometers from here They are great and very cheap Well, now you've got your power. What can you do is it? Remember those calculators from school? They don't really need any power this is Indeed a solar panel you can power them with mother match maybe There's quite a few numbers on this slide you can read them yourself If you want to power an Arduino, did I pronounce it correctly? cool Well, you maybe I think you already know how much power it needs. It's not much We found out how much power a Kindle needs it only needs power when turning pages and it's a pretty small amount You can read lots of ebooks with solar power. It's not true Is this a Kindle with You've got better numbers than us wonderful I will repeat that for the stream listeners They've got an expert here who is much more knowledgeable than us, which is good and Kindle will lose all its power in three weeks Can you calculate how much that is? Could you calculate how much water was that is let's meet afterwards The iPad seems to use about half a watt more or less Depends on what you do with it and let's go to the much more interesting stuff like you But it's definitely not true if you do something with it Yeah, wonderful questions our numbers are questionable. Yes, definitely Well Some more interesting numbers. They are as questionable as the others But at least the rain should be all right human beings like you sitting here each one of you is about 80 watts of heat not electricity, of course Have you been on those? They use about 16 million watts when accelerating at full speed Comparison to the iPad 16 million iPads And a pretty impressive number is the energy consumption of Germany Down here, that's only electricity not the energy Can you actually pronounce that number the energy consumption of Google 260 million watts not too bad your homework now is Try to power Google from your town. How many square miles do you need? It should be quite a lot. Wow Now build it yourself you need parts lists you need schematics and instructions, but you're smart enough, so we left it out Is it all right? There seems to be all right and Well, what you need is some sort of electricity generator solar panels wind whatever You need a charge controller You probably don't You need at least a diode Why do we need it? solar panels Will discharge your battery at night? If you don't put a charge controller at least a diode Into the circuit don't do that You need a battery our recommendation currently is lead acid batteries They are cheap. They are very heavy But they work You need you probably need some kind of voltage converter. There will be another exercise in this lecture now Turn out your laptops and see if you can spot the requirement Voltage your laptop needs. It's probably not 12 volts So you need to converter And you need some cables of course When shopping at a at an expensive place the Germans no Conrad, don't they? You can get by with about 100 euros and shopping at a cheaper place like eBay or the scrapyard or wherever it's cheaper It's the easy way and you could actually go large scale By a few square meters of photovoltaics and it adds up to this Do you care to explain this? It's a bad slide, but we just put it in Half an hour ago because we wanted to have money calculation in there We looked up what Wattenfahl charges at the moment for electricity and that is 22.56 cents per kilowatt hour as of today for really bad energy from Yeah coal and lignite and Well, it's basically it's brown and it stinks And then we took the lead acid basseries and Looked how much that would cost if we want to store and we came up with 20 cents per kilowatt hours So that would add up for any stored kilowatt hour There are quite a few assumptions in here one of What did you see? Okay Well, there's a question microphone place is a difference between Car battery and solar battery there are technical differences, but for the easy assumptions we just took car batteries Car batteries are optimized for some other usage because they have to stand the cold and have to have the big Currents to start the car which you would not need for solar batteries, but their price too high So we took the very cheap approach. They will so there would be better batteries for that purpose Car batteries will break earlier. That's a dot cheap. So you said That's another question isn't there so in the numbers that you've got here, I mean my euros to US dollars is slightly Isn't the best that it could be but when I'm looking at this I mean, so this is this is kind of like the cheapest that you were able to get it because I mean, I'm not familiar with European power grid and you know in the US Yes, we're wasteful and you know we do all kinds of stuff But I mean the our cost for power like just all in all the taxes everything comes out to normally 11 to 12 us cents. We know So we are being tricked by the electricity companies and that's why we're here to tell you that's not necessary I'm very sorry, but this talk will probably not be too interesting for you Bad luck. It's just based on really strange You have to put market in What's it called in English? It's not really a free market. It's kind of state-run Republicans would say communism or something That's what we get here in Europe. I calculated for myself for the Percentage of the net cost that I pay is 45 percent of total cost. So We have to do it on our own and then we force the big companies to come down with the prices and then we proceed on How close we are to this? Well, let's let's go to our assumptions now our assumption was for this calculation You could actually disconnect your home from the electricity grid. It's possible. It's not too expensive What you need is Batteries we chose car batteries. How many you need? Well depends on what you need and We have we've got the assumption that you use most of your power at breakfast and in the evening Because as a fellow hacker you go to work. So you don't need electricity during the daytime This assumption comes through when That we need to store 70% of our electricity and batteries and can use 30% of the electricity we make from our roof directly It's just an assumption. It's as questionable as all our numbers are and With some technical Optimization you can of course change it, but that's later and There's another assumption which we just kind of picked from Wikipedia, which is a wonderful source as you all know that's If you buy solar panels you Get a loan from your bank for 25 years You can actually produce electricity from your own roof for 13.8. You will sense per kilowatt hour See for yourself or edit it and flame us afterwards. So we have to Say a few words more in Germany if you use a renewal energies law They annoy a bar and a gene gazette then you would get the fixed compensation for 20 years But after 20 years the photovoltaic system is not broke. You see your Scientific calculator the solar panel will stay on forever. So after 20 years, you still have 80% power left So what we did is calculate was 25 years and not with the 20 years that are always in the papers so next time you read something about The cost of photovoltaics they always calculate was 20 years not a year more because in the 21st year The cost of photovoltaics would be almost nothing Yeah, you already pay back your loan. You get free electricity Great Well, what we came up with is Electricity from your own roof costs 27.8 euro cents per kilowatt hour. It's more expensive than now But the German energy agency just said electricity prices will rise 20% next year No, we're moving closer and if you want to be On a cheapskate deduct 5 euro 90 fixed fee per month and it pays you nearly well Your investment costs Did you all understand that? Let's sum it up It's not expensive anymore compare that 27 cent 22 cent not too bad Well Where to buy you get PV cells everywhere even at Conrad That's kind of the most expensive place you could buy them the cheapest place seems to be China If you don't want to go to China go to eBay we just Which is China basically yes, but Um Actually it gets delivered to your doorstep. That's cool and It seems like currently prices are at 1 euro 20 per What you measure photovoltaic cells not in square meters, but in what because that's what's actually interesting Go buy your led batteries from a cheap car shop you all have one next door and Well, we've talked about wind generators build your own or If you are rich you can buy one of those ready-made things The company I named here. That's not our company and they don't pay us And you need your charge controller or at least a diode which you get from your local radio check or whatever for Next to no money Take care with those batteries. They contain sulfuric acid Please don't pour it over your hands or other body parts. So it doesn't look nice and it doesn't feel very good please don't and Definitely take care if you are experimenting with lithium batteries They don't contain sulfuric acid, but if you Charge them incorrectly they might ignite Burn melt your house down. Don't do that, please Now we've said that let's put power into the grid Okay, I'll entertain you in between and he will do the real thing If you insist mr. Cameraman, how far can you come to the stage? How near can you come to the stage story from my English actually about the lithium batteries? It's not all that dangerous. It's not ready for home use yet, but I have talked to some German companies that are ready with lithium isom lithium ferrum phosphate batteries with titanium Anodes or and they will have cycles far better than actual batteries now So that we come down for our last forever basically basically yeah by one Use it for the rest of your life and once we are there and we have the photovoltaic system. We have an amazing future I'm so putting your own power into the public grid Usually at home it can't be done. We show you how it can't be done In Germany, we have the anoyabara energine gizettes renewable energies law Anything about one kilowatt one thousand watts Gonna how much is this what you have there? 50 watts Those those are 30 watts each 30 watch each far too tiny for a new apache energy gizettes So you need a few of those or a little more better ones like five of the big panels Then you can use the renewable energy law, but you have to fill out a lots of papers Once we put this on the grid theoretically Then the meter would go backwards so we don't tell anybody and Once the grid company recognizes what we do then Most likely you will have a digital meter and not a Ferrara's counter as it is in the most household at the moment This is a magic box the grid tie inverter When we really do a bigger installation at home, then we have to take care that the local Electrician does not get electrocuted. So there have to be some Rules to be followed. It's a German faude ear rule zero one two six That defines what this little box has to do that actually on the power plug Hmm Where's the power plug plug anything like here? It's absolutely not allowed that electricity comes out here, but with such a box it does so Yeah, make make very sure you include this in your own circuits There's a good reason for that if your power grid at your place goes down which happens and The Sun is shining You miss your own power parts are delivering electricity into a grid that your local technician is trying to repair Don't try him Really don't You'll die So what you really do is just fix it to the grid with an approved Electrician because you're required to by law to use one so once it's Attached to the grid then there's no danger anymore if you do that in Germany or if you buy electricity in Germany usually you have Your local supplier the grid supplier in this case we took the example of Wattenfall in German it says You have to Take care and sich erstellen das von seiner eigenanleih keine schädlichen rückwirkungen an das elektrizitätsversorgungs netz möglich sind und der Anschluss von eigenanlagen ist mit dem Netzbetreiber abzustimmen so We have to take every measure that there's no danger and We have to talk to the grid company before we do this what we don't do of course So that's a photo from inside Really cheap. Can you turn us around or we can't see anything anymore? So that's the Chinese box cheap thing from inside which actually is conformed to faulty e is 0126 So we could attach this Okay, maybe the show is over It's over I'm sorry, we aren't prepared Yes, we put the coin for a scale in there just to show you how how small you could do that So that yes, that's five cents I put in here to have an idea of how much air is in the box. So basically we could fit it into Cigarette box, I think if some real technicians go for it So connections are you ready? So should we try the Sun? Oh, we've got stage some is enough. No, it's not enough Your son's cable is too short What I think we need help from the audience Would you care to shine the Sun onto the photovoltaic cell? Here is an electricity meter in case you're wondering those are the cheap crapper ones from your local Baumarkt, they can count backwards But not all of them. Yeah, it's already on and the Sun isn't shining. It's working Well It's right here That's a good. There's a green light blinking on our magic box. Can the camera show it? Which actually indicates that we are now putting electricity into the public grid and There's another problem which we didn't anticipate. Well, I did and Those counters only started About nine or ten watts So we are putting less than nine watts into the public grid now I'm sorry What if there is no camera with that? It doesn't make sense anyway anyway Okay, we go on then. This works since As you might have noticed It didn't take much time most of the time I spent because I'm not well prepared If you are prepared in a good and wonderful way It will work in about two minutes It's easy But it's still not enough Sun So this little machine has a maximum power point tracking in there It would adjust to the power that shined on there and does an optimized feed-in But this technology exists since years and nobody develops this very small scale gadgets so there is from our perspective a good market because we're so close to Grid tariff that you could actually use it at home on your balcony Which I do Well, now we've entertained you. I hope we did that in a sufficient fashion Now it's your turn as a lot missing from well, basically from the internet and That's a lot of information missing We need open solar map dog What does it do? Well, we've talked about that it takes one of those wonderful flying helicopter things and you need a laser pointer and a camera and some fancy software and Finally you get a solar catastrophe for every place For much cheaper currently it's done with a real plane and commercial software Basically, we need the same for wind and Then there's fun to be had with hardware solids and maybe even with fluids You need one of those boxes as open hardware so everyone can have fun if thousands and thousands and thousands of people have one well Nothing file has to be convinced. They will allow it because you are you know, it's reality and basically this Grid tie inverter is nothing else if you have the Taha the thing for your car you put in 12 volts you get 230 volts for your laptop in the car That's the same thing. It's only the synchronization to the net That's different and the box for the car costs only 40 euros So this should not cost too much more and then No, that's another thing you shouldn't do you shouldn't take your car Alternator which turns your secret ladder into real electricity and connected to the public grid That won't work. It will melt and burst into flames Hopefully because that's interesting, but please don't do that You need the special box which currently can only be gotten in China and There's definitely a need for energy storage technologies Yeah, let acid batteries are cheap, but they are heavy They don't work too well They contain sulfuric acid which is bad and they contain that which is bad for the environment In my dream, I will come here next year Not be on stage, but in the audience and some of you will Show you of your new Redox flow battery. Have you heard of that? Oh Wonderful. How many of you have heard of that? Okay, so I have to explain it. That's basically a battery with exchangeable fluids If you've got a redox flow battery, you can go up to your gas station Buy some charged battery fluid off you go. It's recharged wonderful If you want to enlarge your redox flow battery Well, you get another few bottles of fluid off you go sounds good and We definitely need a way to get very cheap solar panels If you care to ask downstairs in the heck center, there's some guy with a 3d printer I asked him today if he can make solar panels. He said yes, but We didn't do it today because you would Need to make a vacuum in this room Which we can't Go ask him so it gets cheaper So there are other things for cheap Electricity generation that was in the papers last two days ago That there's some paint being invented that gets you 1% of the light that falls in To electricity so 1% efficiency So to wrap it up. This is our future. It's dark It's black Oh, it's not green For my opinion because this 1% is Photosynthesis that's the efficiency you get from light that is being transferred to biomass and that's only the theoretical Usage that you can get out of this. This is practical photo Voltaics that you can buy off the shelves 15% of the light that falls in has been converted to electricity and that Should be a chance. Yeah, that leaves 85% of light wasted Do something with it, but at least it's 15 times more than plants can do Sounds good So next time you read the papers think about these numbers well, why not make use of networks your love networks, don't you and What we need is kind of and well, I've called it energy server. It's a really shitty name. I'm sorry, and If you produce your own electricity, you need to match it up with what you need It's interesting if you turn on the washing machine while the Sun is shining But you shouldn't need to think about this for yourself your home server can do that So you need a control pot you need a washing machine with some kind of Web server in it, which can turn it on and off You need a toaster which can be turned on and off from your home server Doesn't this sound like fun? And you need fancy server-side software This is a job for you And if you've done all of that go and disconnect yourself from the grid team up with your neighbors because it's easier And you get to meet people And use the Sun because it's shining and it's good for people If you live in the European Union, you will get to know those You probably know those from your basement The old Ferraris counter It's not a Ferrari counter because they can't actually go that fast but See you want us to have fancy digital electricity counters Well, what can you do with it? I've been told those things Can do communication two ways But I've got no idea what they actually communicate I've been told those things can actually turn off electricity to our soul. This sounds like a denial of service attack to me Impress us next year, please I don't think so No, I just want to mention some communication protocols that are not really good documented, but there's really good chances to integrate different Renewables in your home if you have your photovoltaics if you have your wind Maybe you have a CHP a combined heat and power plant and you want to have that communicate with your Actual demand so that would be work for guys like you and for now Well, ask questions either now or wire email You have to follow this algorithm. So to prove you aren't a spambot, but shouldn't be too bad There's time for questions now. I think where's our angel? Is there any time left? There's time left isn't there? First question. I'm on well my remark If you go more global, there's a good book. I read a couple of months ago called renewable energy without the hot air I don't know if you've read that it's free You can just download it on the net just Google renew renewable energy without the hot air and it basically Makes a whole assessment for whole Europe about Running all Europe and renewables. So it's quite a good read and it's also very well-founded Next question More questions. Oh Lots of questions. Yeah. Yeah, actually. It's not a question It's an answer because you asked how much energy there is in club matter and it's 1.2 million kilowatts if you bring it together with anti-matter Wonderful that's a question right down there Thank you so much. That's impressive Hi, I just a remark concerning your talk. I mean, thanks for the talks. It's very nice I just want to contrast powering your own gadgets with the Vocabulary you use to describe a bright future with renewable energy and the rather Stark vocabulary you use to describe the current coal and fuel energies, but Just to be clear. We'll never get even with 100% efficiency on solar panels enough energy to even build The calculator the micro what calculator you you get there Fuel and coal gets us power density and enormous amounts of power Available with tremendous reliability. So I'm just worried about This will not scale this is very nice to power your own gadgets But not enough power to make the gadget and certainly not enough power to run all the computers that this gadget is Usually connected to so just I just wanted to have your thoughts about this very quickly. Thank you actually We looked on how much energy there is theoretically in some battery materials and this lithium sulfuric battery is described was theoretically 3200 watts per kilo and What hours kilowatts kilowatt hours kilowatt hours per kilo so You would have 10 kilowatt hours per kilo in diesel and If you want to make electricity from diesel you only have like 30 or 40 percent Efficiency so Interrupt but can I ask everybody to stay seated because it's really interruptive during the Q&A So, thank you very much. Okay. My point is Batteries and in theory should do almost the same electricity storage like diesel does at the moment. So I don't see too much of a problem That's another remark from me actually the energy you need to produce one of those panels can be Produced by the actual panel in about six months. That's called erntefaktor in German. I don't really know in English Word for it and they pay off after some time the energy you need to Build a wind turbine as you see in Brandenburg Is being produced by that same winter by no in about a week after one week it's free and Usually you don't need to store that much energy like you used to if you Had an old heating system at home. You might have had two cubit meters of heating oil there So that would be lasting for the whole winter But for the future you would only need so much electricity To cover the need until the next wind has come and filled up your storage. So that would be quite a bit less Yeah One two three four questions now five. Yeah, you first. I'm I'm quite a bit disappointed from this talk Because what I what I really looked for was a lot less Some vague allegations about the fact that not only there was solar power but that you could actually use it but rather Concrete experience how to construct a small scale installation of either solar or wind power and and the and the very nuts and balls of How that actually does work because not only is it not trivial but there is also a patent lack of of Purchasable and and reliable electronics Doing doing the work in the background and I would very much like to to have at least at this stage Some some answers to these kinds of questions Okay Please people else is disappointed show of hands. No, I'm I'm not really this point No, we want to ask the answer this question because basically we a little bit expected this but With a gadget like this, which is only be accessible at the moment in China It's trivial. You just plug plug into the wall and it works. It's for idiots So just somebody has to build it and Nobody does it so this is more a motivation thing demand something like that if there's nobody to build it Get somebody you know who's technically able to build it and build it There were gadgets like this. I had some bought an eBay from German companies. They don't produce it anymore So I bought these from China and plug it into the wall and they work so the the thing is you have the grid tie Inverter it's the same thing like you have in your car I said you plug in 12 volts that come out of your car Or either or you take the 12 watts that come out of this photovoltaic thing and it changes this to 230 DC power and Then you have to have the synchronization and the mechanism that cuts it off the net so that they don't get electrocuted And that's basically it. That's one What's that shelter switch switch one switch away and one part of an electronics that does a Synchronization you have the official net that goes with 50 Hertz And you have to synchronize it that you don't disturb the net and that does the machine and everything else is just peanuts Yeah Question going I Want to answer? I actually go ahead. I want to have a similar demand I'm also trying to live off the grid for a couple months and I do use a small solar system and I have the need to Find other guys who are actually working on getting a small Structure together like you said because it is missing. There's nothing for below thousand euro or bucks where you can buy a Solar setup. It's not there. You have to get the solar panels. You have to get the diode, which is kind of Okay, you have to get the thingy and and connect everything, but there is nothing like a package or something anyway I would love to share also Okay, we'll set up my question where where we Collect this I actually reserved one called Piraten strom dot de so maybe we set up as a as a website for that Why not? Would be great to have a package anywhere my question is I'm messing around with the 12 volt and my ideas not to use To put it back into the system because 12 volt is more efficient because that's what you have and when you you lose power Anyway, I use the batteries, but there are Nasty and break and I thought about using a pump to fill up a thousand liter Whatever tank water tank basically and use the try to use the power back. Is that reliable? Do you think it is in a small scale? Usable because I'm not too good with calculating that would it be useful for like 50 watts or something? I'd like to offer you that we should meet after this talk We need to do some number crunching on this. It's just a rough scale Would it make sense to play around with water as a basically energy? As a battery basically no to be honest no no Hi, I wonder how photovoltaics really compares to photosynthesis Because you said it's 1% and 15% Evolution had a few million years. I think to optimize this technology called tree and on one square meter I can grow a really huge tree which has perhaps billions of little solar panels these leaves and I can just I can make this solar power plant out of dirt literally and I can burn the wood and generate electricity and To have these photovoltaic panels I think there's a lot of ancient sunlight which is stored in oil and gas which is necessary to produce these things and My question is do you have numbers? If I have one square meter and I grow a tree or I put a photovoltaic cell on it What is what are the what is the real efficiency of these come both technologies compared? That's that's a good question The photovoltaic thing one square meter of photovoltaics gets more or less 15% efficiency. We've seen that before one square meter of tree Regardless of tree size, that's the interesting part gets about let's say 1% might be true more or less and The thing about trees is if you use a larger tree By having it getting it to grow bigger you don't get more Sun So you don't actually get more energy I Increasing the tree doesn't help Because it still needs Sun and the Sun doesn't increase with it Yeah, but yeah, the problem is if if you use the vertical space and you get all your sunlight in your tree up here There's none left for the below. That's the constant We only have so so much Sun for one square meter and at the moment we Can collect 15% with a off-the-shelf solar panel and in the laboratories We have systems that go up to 40% Collection and that's just a fact photovoltaic photosynthesis look it up in Wikipedia There's a link for a big study for photosynthesis in general you would get like point six or point eight percent Efficiency and that's only the energy that is stored in biomass if you want to transfer biomass again to electricity You lose again 50% so we would not use that numbers because that's good thing too amazing then The tree is interesting because it produces chemicals. That's a good thing Which you can use for building like furniture medicine Whatever we're not against biomass you can eat it I'm very sorry, but I've got to end it because it's the end of the talk Where can they find you right now if they want to talk a bit more about this? Well, I'd say right outside this dog Yeah, it's very busy. So that's not gonna happen Okay, oh, that's too bad suggest the place You tell it. I don't know where I can find you Maybe in the restaurant or where you're sitting see In front of the speakers room, but not inside the speakers room because that's for us. That's okay Okay, so if you want to talk to them, please