 You're listening to the Naked Bible Podcast. To support this podcast, click at NakedBiblePodcast.com and click on the support link in the upper right-hand corner. If you're new to the podcast and Dr. Heizer's approach to the Bible, click on New Start Here at NakedBiblePodcast.com. Welcome to the Naked Bible Podcast, episode 213, Do Good Works, Contribute to Salvation. I'm the layman, Tray Strickland, and he's the scholar, Dr. Michael Heizer. Well, today, talking about salvation, I guess it's the number one topic. If there is a number one topic, it's kind of a big deal here, and we've touched on good works several times, so I'm interested to see what you add to the conversation. Yeah, I mean, this keeps coming up, and I remember, this kind of grows out of the Q&A episode we had after the book of Hebrews, because the book of Hebrews is just really so focused on believers staying in the faith, and we often talked in our series in Hebrews, and then of course in the Q&A about the emphasis there is to keep believing. It's not to do X number of works, and then you sort of cross the finish line, you break the tape, and then you're in. So there's just the subject matter in Hebrews often lent itself to this conversation about faith and works, and lapsing in faith, oh, does that mean I sinned, I committed a sin, and now I lose my salvation, and those kinds of discussions. So in view of the fact that we got questions about that in the Q&A, even after the whole series, and again, there were a few particular ones in there, I had made the comment in that Q&A, boy, we need to just sort of devote an episode to this, and this is that episode, and I'll be honest with you, having sort of run over this territory with a considerable amount of frequency in the series in Hebrews and in other places, I didn't quite know how to structure this so that it would be sort of different, but I thought about that for 10 or 15 minutes, and then I just sort of threw it to the wind and abandoned it, and what I'm going to do is we're going to just go through several propositions, just ideas, statements, and then we're going to read a lot of scripture in this episode, and again, focus on what the text says, that's what we try to do here, and sort out the faith and works thing. So for many people, this is going to sound a little bit axiomatic, like, oh, this is so obvious, why would this even be a question? But for a lot of believers, it is a question. So if you're not struggling with this, don't check out. I can almost guarantee that you know someone in your church or your family or your circle of friends who does struggle with some of these things, and so you want to listen, direct them to this, pay attention, and share things yourself with other believers that you know. So having said that, having set it up like that, our comments about works are really going to be focused primarily on post-cross works. So the idea of working your way into heaven is, again, pretty patently obvious, that that's not what salvation is about. But we are going to spend a few moments discussing that as we begin, and for the bulk of our time, it's going to be on, well, okay, if works aren't about salvation, then what's the point? Why do we care about living in a certain way? What's the whole point to this? If it doesn't contribute to salvation, if it's not essential for salvation, then why do we bother? So that's where we're going in the episode. So let's start, again, with just several propositions. And, you know, faith and works, I think at the outset, we need to realize that faith and works are not rivals to each other. They should not be pitted against one another. And the latter, works, does not supplement the former, as though the former faith is somehow deficient. Like you have really strong faith, you understand the gospel, you embrace it and believe it, but that's just not enough. That's deficient. That's not adequate. We need to add our works to that. Again, those are ideas that in some circles might be fairly common, but I think it's easy to demonstrate that they're unscriptural. So first proposition, I would put it this way. Scripture is absolutely clear that our works do not merit, and that's a key word, do not merit or earn God's grace and love. Okay, the fact that we do good works, or to use biblical language, the works of the law, you know, our obedience to God, is not what earns God's grace or earns God's love. Therefore, works for the Christian are not about earning merit before God to obtain eternal life. Now, there's any number of passages that are going to be tracking on this. Let's just go to Galatians 2. We're probably familiar with verse 20. Okay, I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life that I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. But that actually has a context. Okay, there's something that precedes it, and there's something that comes after it. So if we go all the way back to verse 11, I said we're going to read a lot of Scripture here, and we're going to do that, and I'm just going to comment on things as we go. So if we go to Galatians 2, chapter 11, this is the Paul-Peter confrontation. We read this, But when Cephas Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him. This is Paul speaking. I opposed him to his face because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles. Okay, so Peter was enjoying meals fellowship with the Gentiles. But when they came, these men from James, he drew back, Peter drew back and separated himself fearing the circumcision party. He's afraid that Jewish believers, people who are Christians, most likely, but really into the law that they were going to criticize him. So he shrank back. He drew back. He separated himself from the Gentiles, verse 13. And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas and Peter before them all, if you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile, in other words, hey, you were budding up with the Gentiles and that was fine. If you live like a Gentile, not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews? In other words, if it's okay, and apparently you believed it was correctly before these other men came, if you believed it was fine to do non-Torahish things such as fellowship, have meals with Gentiles, but now you've recoiled as though it's wrong, then where do you get the authority or even the coherence of telling Gentiles that they have to live like Jews? You weren't living like a Jew. So which is it, Peter? Which is it? And of course, Paul's point is that you were right before. The truth of the gospel is that we don't need to do Torah observant stuff. Again, these are issues of conscience. These are not issues of being right with God. So Peter, and Peter's the guy in the Book of Acts who had the vision, rise, Peter kill and eat. And Peter says, oh, I haven't eaten any of these unclean things my whole life. And God tells him what God has called clean, do not call unclean. And the whole point is that this was preparing Peter for ministry to the Gentiles. Well, Peter seems to have forgotten that, but Paul didn't. Paul understood that theology and he confronts Peter about it. He confronts him. We continue, verse 15, we ourselves, again, Paul speaking here, Paul writing, we ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners. In other words, we're Jews and we don't do some, a lot of that stuff that the Gentiles do. Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law, but through faith in Jesus Christ. So we also have believed in Christ Jesus in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law. Because by works of the law, no one will be justified. I mean, I don't know how much clear you can make it. And yet we have a lot of Christians who for some reason, we're going to talk about those reasons today, somehow believe or are taught that they have to mix faith in Christ. They have to mix that with works to keep God happy or make God happy. And they might say, well, I'm not doing that to have eternal life. I know the gospel. I know salvation is not earned by works. Well, then why do you insist on doing or not doing certain things as though those are essential to have God positively predisposed toward you to have God love you and like you? Why do you think that it's not a coherent thought? And we're going to come back to the old, you know, old verse, you know, while we were yet sinners, you know, Christ died for us. We're going to add a few Ephesians while we were enemies hostile toward God. God loved us, showed grace toward us. Okay, and those scriptural thoughts are incompatible with the notion that we have to do certain works or a certain amount of certain works so that God is kept smiling at us so that God keeps loving us. It's just not true. But yet this is what floats around in a lot of believers' minds when you have clear scriptural statements to the contrary. And again, we'll talk about why that might be. Verse 17, But if in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Again, this is another way of saying, well, if we're justified in Christ, then, you know, we can just do what we want, and then Christ is like the servant of sin. He facilitates sin. You know, it's the same question as back in Romans. You know, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid, Paul says, and he says the same thing here. ESV translates it, certainly not. It's Meg and Oita, which is the same as it is in Romans. You know, God forbid. For if I rebuild, verse 18, for if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law, I died to the law so that I might live to God. And here's verse 20. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not nullify. Here's what comes after the verse that everybody memorized. Here's what comes after. Relations 2.20. This one's just as important, maybe even more so. Paul says, I do not nullify the grace of God. For if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. Again, I just don't know how much clear it can possibly be. If you are believing, if you are thinking that your works, the works of the law, are what puts the grace of God over the hump, that the grace of God is going to fail unless we have your works to mix in, that the grace of God is deficient without your works, then you nullify the grace of God. And your theology says, even though your mouth might not, your theology says, Christ died for no purpose. Again, Paul is blunt. He's clear. And we're going to talk about why. Again, even with this clarity, why people still get stuck on this. Here's another passage. Romans 3. Verse 27. Paul, again, this is Romans 3. Paul has spent the first two chapters talking about the Gentiles being lost in their sin. And he talks about the Jews, again, being in the same state. And the Jews are kind of worse in some ways because they had the oracles of God. And then they're still separated from God because they need to believe in the gospel. They need to believe in Christ. So he says in verse 27, try to convince now mostly Jewish readers to think clearly about salvation. He writes, Then what becomes of our boasting? And again, if you know, he's talking about working, doing works, works of law, what becomes of our boasting? He says it is excluded. We don't have any reason to boast because salvation is not based on works. It is excluded by what kind of law? By a law of works? No. No, it's not excluded by a law of works, but by the law of faith. The fact that salvation is by faith excludes our boasting because salvation is no longer dependent on our performance. Salvation in biblical theology is not merit-based. Verse 28, For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also. Since God is one who will justify these circumcised by faith, those of the Jews, and the uncircumcised, the Gentiles through faith, they're both justified the same way. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means. On the contrary, we uphold the law. The context of this is what Paul has been saying about the purpose of the law. Again, to show us our failure, to show us that we needed grace here in Romans 3. Going into chapter 4, Paul decides to illustrate the point with Abraham. Everybody knows who Abraham is again. He's talking to a mostly Jewish audience. What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather, according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. Now, to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift, but as his due. It's what's owed to him. In other words, if salvation is by works, then God owes it to you. If Abraham was saved by works, by his behavior, by his performance, then God owed him salvation. Paul is denying this. His wages are not counted as a gift, but as his due. And to the one who does not work in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness. In other words, the person who knows, who doesn't depend on his merit, his works, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, believes the gospel. His faith is counted as righteousness. It's the opposite of works. Just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works. Then he quotes the Old Testament, Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin. Verse 9, is this blessing then only for the circumcised? Is it only for the Jew? Or also for the uncircumcised and on Jew? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. In other words, Abraham was right with God. He believed before the issue of circumcision ever came up. And it was, Paul uses the circumcision illustration here because the Abrahamic covenant was sealed with circumcision. That was the sign of the covenant. And Paul's argument is that look, Abraham believed God before any of this circumcision stuff was even in the picture. That was the basis of salvation, not the work, not the deed, not the obedience that came afterwards. Verse 11, he, Abraham, received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith, while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised so that righteousness would be counted to them as well. And to make him the father of the circumcised, who are not merely circumcised, but also who walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. And I'll catch that. Abraham is the father of both groups, according to Paul. He's the father of the Gentile because salvation is by faith. It has nothing to do with Jewish rituals. It has nothing to do with Torah observance. But he's also the father, the leading figure for the Jew. Why? Because he believed prior to the circumcision, salvation was by faith in both instances. And this is Paul's argument. So, again, you look at this. How in the world can this not be crystal clear? I would say it is crystal clear. We'll move on to the next proposition. Number two, scripture is absolutely clear that our works are not what causes God to love us or what keeps God loving us. Now, again, sort of the go-to texture, and I think it really is important, but we're going to consider some other ones here, is Romans 5. Romans 5, I'll start in verse 6. Paul, same epistle writing to the Romans. He says, For while we were still weak at the right time, Christ died for the ungodly. You know, weak there is a common New Testament, Greek term for to be weak or sickly or diseased or you have some malady or so. Well, our malady is, of course, sin, our separation from God. While we were still weak at the right time, Christ died for the ungodly for one will scarcely die for a righteous person or perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die. But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God for if while we were enemies, if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son, much more now that we are reconciled shall we be saved by his life. Again, a reference to the resurrection. Again, while we were yet sinners, while we were enemies, God showed his love for us, Christ died for us. By definition, God didn't wait for good performance to love us. Scripture states the contrary, the antithetical idea that while we were enemies, while we were in an adversarial position of God, he still loved us, while we were sinners, while we were doing all sorts of things that, you know, God, does this please? You know, God still loved us. John 3.16. I mean, everybody, it seems like everybody in the universe, you know, has heard this verse some time, for God so loved the world that he gave his only son, his monogamy, his unique son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. It doesn't say whoever adds sufficient works while believing in him. It doesn't say whoever works. Okay, works are not part of the equation. Whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. The verse is not a mystery. The verse is crystal clear. There's no mystery here. Colossians 1. 21 through 23. And you, again, Paul's speaking to Gentiles now, predominantly, and you who were once alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he, God, has now reconciled, you know, God, really God and Christ in this particular verse, this part of Colossians. He has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him. If indeed you continue in the faith, sounds like the book of Hebrews there, you gotta believe. Gotta believe. Okay, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which is proclaimed in all creation under heaven and of which I, Paul, became a minister. Notice it doesn't say now, you who were once alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body when he saw the change in your behavior. Okay, you were reconciled when you turned your life around, when you cleaned up your act, when you managed to do enough good works more than bad works, when you managed to contribute enough then God said, okay, we'll do the transaction now. It doesn't say any of that. Okay, he has now, he's reconciled you in his body of flesh by his death. Okay, and because of that, he's gonna be able to present you to God. If indeed you continue in faith, it doesn't say if indeed you continue to do enough good works. If indeed you continue to produce the quality of life that God is pleased with. It doesn't say that, folks. Again, the passages are clear. Defesions too. I'm gonna beat this drum because this, again, this just keeps coming up. Paul again, different letter. And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked. Following the course of this world. I mean, you're sinful, you're following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air. Okay, you're in Satan's back pocket. The spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind. And we're by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. That's who you are. That's who you were. But God, once he saw your change of life. But God, once he saw you clean up your act. But God, once he saw that you were serious about reforming yourself. But God, once he saw that you realized that you needed to keep kosher or do Torah or do X, well, you fill in the blank with whatever you want. And it's going to be wrong. Because the text says, but God being rich in mercy because of the great love with which he loved us. I mean, he loved you while you were all those things in the first three verses. But God being rich in mercy because of the great love with which he loved us. Even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together by Christ, by grace you have been saved. Yet I can't improve on what the New Testament says. How is it how is it that we could possibly, I mean, if you read passages like this, how is it that we could possibly think that our works are an indispensable supplement to salvation? How could we think that our works are essential to God's positive disposition toward us? It's theological insanity but it's common. Why? I think, personally, we'll say a little bit more about it as we proceed, but just to kind of do a little sidebar here. I think because for anyone who's redeemed, anybody who's a believer, we feel shame before God when we sin. But our shame should not be allowed to pervert grace. It must not be parsed. Our shame must not be parsed as proof that God now hates us or that he's lost love for us. If anything, our shame is proof that there's something about us that has changed, not that God has changed to think or insist that works contribute to salvation means grace isn't enough. That's really the bottom line. Our theology is, regardless of what you say, if you're thinking that works are essential, that is your theology that grace is not enough. I don't really care what comes out of your mouth if that's what you're thinking, that's your theology and it's not biblical theology. Since the grace of God was shown to us through Christ's sacrifice, then Christ's work isn't enough. Again, if that's what you're thinking, that's what you're saying. In John 21, which we just read, if righteousness were through the law then Christ died for no purpose. Orgolations 5.4 You who would be justified by the law you have fallen away from grace and that's a problem. That's a problem because, you know, Paul's just saying you're not believing the Gospel then. You have to believe the Gospel. The good news, the good news is that Christ died on your behalf. God loved you. Christ gave himself for you and your faith, your belief, your trust in that is what matters. That's what matters to God. Your merit, your performance doesn't play a role in this at all. Because if it did, then Christ's death is kind of pointless. 3. Proposition. The scripture is absolutely clear that since works do not amount to merit before God and are not what makes God love us, then works therefore must be a result of true faith that validates true faith. So if works aren't the one thing then logically they must be another thing. So if works are not about merit before God and not about salvation, if they're not about getting God to love us, we're doing enough, hey, I'm active over here, Lord, pay attention so that you can look at what I'm doing so that you love me. If that's not what it's about, then works must be about something else. And the something else is that works are the result of faith and works validate genuine faith. We could go back to Romans 5. 10 but the preceding verses get at this point. Paul says therefore since we have been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings knowing that suffering produces endurance and endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not put us to shame because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. First 5 verses, Paul is getting at look. We're already justified by faith but when we respond, when we obey and when we do the right thing in enduring suffering and in the circumstances of life that produces character. It produces character so works behavior, what a person is behaviorally is going to be a byproduct in some way of responding to the Gospel and then understanding that you as Paul says we stand in grace through faith. This world is not our home. We have eternal life. Life here really sucks but this world is not our home it's going to help us to endure and rejoice in our sufferings and that produces character. Another way of looking at this and the primary passage, primary book for a lot of this is James. We talked about James in the last Q&A and so some of this is going to sound familiar from episode 201 on Hebrews. We got into James but I'm just going to repeat some of that and add a few other things because James is consistent with this idea that works validate real faith. Works are not a substitute for faith in James's theology. They validate faith. Faith is the essential ingredient for James and I'm going to show you why that's the case here. If faith, James is famous in verse 17 James 2.17, faith without works is dead. If faith by itself in other words if faith without works is dead then faith is not alive, it's not genuine then faith with works is real. It's genuine. In other words works validate faith. They don't take faith off the table as a substitute for faith. Works don't eliminate faith works don't supersede faith works don't allow faith to be dispensed with works validate faith if faith without works is dead then faith with works is real it's genuine and it's essential it has to be there works validate true faith the absence of works means the absence of genuine faith that's why he's even talking about works James is not talking about works to say that faith stuff you don't need any of that what you need is works you need merit you gotta earn yourself that's not what he's saying the only reason he's talking about works is because he wants to know if your faith is real that's the only reason the discussion is even happening in James so this notion that he's doing this bait and switch kind of thing is just false it's bad theology it's a bad reading it's an inept reading of the text the only reason he's even into it is he wants to know is your faith real that's the question James never says here or anywhere else that works are what saves the primary issue for James is faith not works this can be shown by asking the question what is living or dead faith without works is dead James says that's what he actually says works without faith are dead what James is concerned with he's concerned with what what's living or dead and what he's concerned about being alive being real is faith his focus is still that even though his talk is about works the only reason he's into the subject is he wants to know is your faith real you can profess lots of things and if your life just doesn't show it then James is saying I have every reason to doubt that your faith is genuine he's not saying you gotta realize that if you don't do enough works you're not gonna get to heaven that's not what he's saying he's saying if I don't see works then I'm not confident that your faith is real I'm concerned about your faith I'm not concerned about your tally of works I'm concerned about is your faith real why would James be concerned about that because he knows faith is what saves that's why now from the earlier Q&A I tried to illustrate this you know I said the absence of works doesn't say oh crud I just didn't work hard enough to merit eternal life no the absence of works says that faith isn't here it isn't to be found works are not a substitute for faith faith cannot be exchanged for works works show that faith is in the building and I I tried to use you know a couple it's not exactly a syllogism but I tried to use different vocabulary so starting out with works and faith I wrote and said this works that is our actions don't produce faith works don't replace faith works validate or demonstrate faith in other words they show that faith is there that faith is in the building works are therefore necessary to show that faith is real their absence invalidates a claim that faith is in the building no it's not if faith is in the building we would see works okay he's talking about is it living or dead is it here or not and what is it it's not a substitute I tried a few let's do kind gestures and love same role relationships for faith and works kind gestures don't produce love do they no they don't kind gestures don't replace love can anybody anybody knows this anybody who has a single healthy relationship knows this kind gestures don't produce love they don't replace love kind gestures can validate love though someone loves you they will be kind kind gestures are necessary therefore to show that love is real their absence invalidates a claim of love let's try obedience and loyalty again the same relationships obedience doesn't produce loyalty obedience doesn't replace you can obey without really being loyal you know you can do it grudgingly you can obey biting your time for the moment that you can strike back you can take revenge you can leave the building you can leave home whatever these two are not the same thing obedience and loyalty are not the same thing obedience does not produce loyalty it does not replace loyalty but obedience can validate loyalty obedience is necessary you know that loyalty is real how could you say you're loyal to someone if you never obey them it's absurd again faith and works we have to get these things straight the only reason James is concerned with the works conversation is not because he's concerned I just want to know that you've done enough that you've merited salvation oh I'm concerned about that he wants to know if faith is real that's why he's having the discussion now a question ok in light of all that Mike can we just send all we want now you know to echo Paul God forbid I mean are you insane you know but you know what if Paul got the question who are we to think that we won't get the question of course we get the question because Paul got it again Roman 6 is sort of a fundamental passage for this let's go to Roman 6 verse 15 Paul says what then are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace by no means you know Meg and Oita God forbid you know no way do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves of the one whom you obey either of sin which leads to death or of obedience which leads to righteousness but thanks be to God that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed and having been set free from sin have become slaves of righteousness I am speaking in human terms because of your natural limitations for just as you once presented your members as slaves of impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to does he say salvation see up above he says in verse 16 let me read it again do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves you are slaves of the one whom you obey either of sin which leads to death or of obedience which leads to righteousness see people will read that oh yeah he is talking about earning salvation really well try reading down three verses verse 19 I am speaking in human terms because of your natural limitations for just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to salvation it says leading to sanctification Paul is not teaching salvation by works here he is teaching if you surrender yourself you can surrender yourself to one thing or the other you can do stuff that produces death, self destruction destruction of others or you can make you can serve serve God, serve Jesus, serve Christ and that will make you a righteous person okay it's about doing right things but he doesn't say in verse 9 that that leads to salvation it says it leads to sanctification it leads to becoming the kind of person God wants you to be that's a normal way of putting sanctification sanctification the theologian was progressing toward holiness okay technically linguistically okay that's how you would say that but let's just like be real sanctification is the process of becoming more like Jesus it's the process of imaging Jesus imitating him imaging Jesus which is of course is also imaging God it's becoming more godly it's becoming the kind of person that God wants you to be because he created you to image him and he gave you his son yes so that you could have eternal life you know through what happened on the cross but he also you know I've talked a number of times on the podcast about how Christ is referred to as the image of God the express image of God that we are being conformed to the image of his son okay God's son Jesus it Jesus is the template for how to live that's all this is saying it's not talking about earning eternal life if you go on in Roman 6 verse 20 for when you were slaves of sin you were free in regard to righteousness go live it up but what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed for the end of those things is death just a suggestion profound thought here if something leads to death to self destruction not good and you shouldn't be enslaved by it that's all Paul is saying but now verse 22 that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God the fruit you get leads to sanctification and ultimately it's end eternal life you're going to become like Jesus the sanctification is becoming like Jesus now and ultimately like 1st John says when we are glorified we will be as much like him as we can possibly be this is all Paul is talking about imitating Christ being conformed to his image why so that he decides to put up with you we can't obtain this perfection we can't obtain perfection Paul's language is that we are in Christ when all this stuff about sanctification is going on we are in him we are united to him we are part of his body we are not just our own body now we need to submit as slaves to not the body of sin our normal body but this other body that we're united to this is Roman 6 go back to the beginning of Roman 6 and you have just look at the language there for if we have been united with him in a death like this we shall be united with him in a resurrection like his our old selves crucified and the body of sin might be brought to nothing we have died with Christ we believe we'll also live with him again the whole chapter starts with being in Christ and it ends with again this idea of progressively being sanctified being conformed to the one whose body we are a part of the body of Christ being conformed to the image of Christ and then ultimately again we're going to have eternal life not because of our own effort it's because we're united to him that's why we have eternal life and when we get to that point again as John says and as Paul says and other places we're going to be like him we will be made like him that's the end point that's the terminus point you know for all of this another question okay you know if we're not just supposed to sin it up now just do what we want why should we care though why should we put forth an effort okay you convinced me Mike and I'm not just going to go out and sin as much as I possibly can so that grace will cover it that's the God forbid moment there in Romans 6 but hey I'm not going to put too much effort into the other either if I can't earn any favor with God okay I'll promise God that I'm not going to go crazy on the sin side but why should I bother with good works why should I bother what's the point I would say there's several reasons why you know we should try to live a holy life we should try to as Paul just said in Romans 6 render ourselves a slave to righteousness again we already know we're not going to earn anything by that because God loved us while we were sinners while we were enemies, while we were hostile God loved us despite all that our salvation is by faith because of what God accomplished through Christ on the cross okay we get that doesn't really earn us anything so why should we do it okay there are several reasons I'm just going to throw out three, first three here just not in any particular order here our works are a service to others that's one good reason why we should care about how we live and even though we don't earn brownie points with God we should be a blessing to others our works make make us a blessing to others or a curse we serve others or we don't our works make us useful for God's purposes or not and you know why we should care because we're supposed to be imaging God we're supposed to be being conformed to the image of Christ Christ who is the template the perfect image the perfect example we're supposed to be disciples imaging Jesus imitating Jesus is the definition of discipleship and we do that fundamentally in two ways how would Jesus reduce this if Jesus were here in the room and we hey Jesus you know how do we best imitate you what do we do give us the grocery list can we know what he would say because he said it in the Gospels love God and love others it's not that complicated Jesus could reduce and he actually even says that all the law and the prophets can be reduced to these things that's why he gives that answer love God and love others in other words relate to God the way Jesus did and relate to people the way Jesus did love God the way Jesus did treat other people the way Jesus did you know so again those three things just again not in any particular order good works are about being a servant to others because Jesus was a servant to others they should be about being a blessing to others because Jesus blessed other people they should be about being useful for God's plan and Jesus was certainly useful he didn't get sidetracked just a few verses a few passages here let's go to Titus 3 Titus 3 let's just go to 3 through 8 for we ourselves again Paul talking to his audience and you know including himself here for we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient let us stray slaves to various passions and pleasures passing our days in malice and envy good grief it sounds like Facebook actually passing our days in malice and envy hated by others but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared he saved us not because of works done by us in righteousness but according to his own mercy by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life the saying is trustworthy and I want you to insist on these things so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works these things are excellent and profitable for people that's Titus 3 3 through 8 why should we do good works we devote our believers should devote themselves to good works these things are excellent and profitable for people it's serving people it's behaving it's living like Jesus lived you go down to verse 14 he sort of picks up the thought again let our people learn to devote themselves to good works so as to help cases of urgent need and not be unfruitful let me put that a little more negatively and not be useless okay doing good works in the position of God being able to use you to serve other people and to bless people if you're thinking that your good works are earning favor with God you are distracted at best you're distracted and you're really not imaging Jesus at that point Hebrews 10 24 and we saw this in our series let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works well in the context of Hebrews 10 look you stir each other up to live as you ought because there's mutual benefit in the believing community to doing that if you're all sitting around waiting to die if you're all sitting around it's like oh this is the situation is just hopeless just sit here and wait for death that's not accomplishing what God wants accomplished either in terms of your own mutual benefit as a community or in terms of what you're supposed to be doing with the lost world fulfilling the great commission is not waiting for death it just isn't Ephesians 2 10 we have verses 2 8 and 9 which again is the one those are the ones everybody memorizes for by grace you have been saved through faith it's not of your own doing it's the gift of God not a result of works Hebrews 10 are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them in other words God has a plan God has something in mind for each one of you he really does he has something in mind and you were created in Christ in other words you were redeemed you were saved for the purpose of good works it's a byproduct of salvation Ephesians 4 again a pretty famous passage this is where Paul says that we are supposed to verse 22 put off your old self which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires and be renewed in the spirit of your minds and put on the new self created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness there's that idea progressively imitating Jesus progressively becoming more like him at the end of the road if we remain in faith as Paul said and Hebrews says several times we're going to have eternal life but we're also going to be maximally like him we're going to be transformed upon our glorification when we pass through the veil however we want to put that at the end of the road when we join the council Hebrews chapter 2 we are made fit for sacred space that's the end point therefore Paul says having put away falsehood let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor for me we are members one of another be angry and don't sin do not let the sun go down on your anger give no opportunity to the devil let the thief no longer steal but rather let him labor doing honest work with his own hands that he may have something to share do you see a pattern here he doesn't say back up in verse 25 so good you check that box and now that you've merited grace there you've merited salvation good for you no you live the right way you put away falsehood so that you can speak truth with your neighbor good works are about blessing people being usable to God within the believing community and to a lost world be angry and don't sin let the sun go down on your anger give no opportunity to the devil he doesn't say well good you checked off that box too that's more brownie points with God no it's so that you don't become a tool of the dark side you should be a tool of Jesus let the thief no longer steal but let him labor doing honest work with his own hands so that he may have something to share with anyone in need bless people but only such is as good for building up can metaphorically building up people as fits the occasion that it may give grace to those who hear be a blessing do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you along with malice be kind to one another tenderhearted forgiving one another as God and Christ forgave you so you can't do that if you're hanging on to the other things nowhere in the passage is do all these things now get them down, make a list memorize it put them on your iPhone or whatever make sure you chalk these off every day because then God will love you because then God will be happy with you God might give you the time of day no you do these things to bless others and to be useful to God 2 Timothy 2 20 starting verse 20 now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also wooden clays some for honorable use, some for dishonorable therefore if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable he will be a vessel for honorable use it's just a metaphor Paul is saying to believers look if you're living a certain way you're not going to be useful to God you're not going to be a blessing to people but if you live righteously you will do those things therefore if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable he'll be a vessel for honorable use set apart as holy useful to the master of the house ready for every good work so therefore flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith love and peace along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart have nothing to do with foolish ignorant controversies you know that they breed quarrels boy holy cow that's a gut punch for our culture today and I'm speaking here of the believing community, not just the world have nothing to do with foolish ignorant controversies, you know that they breed quarrels and the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome Lord's servant is supposed to be opposite but kind to everyone able to teach patiently enduring evil correcting his opponents with gentleness I'll confess I don't always do that I have to remember this too God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth and that they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil after being captured by him to do his will can why should we live a certain way to serve others that's what Jesus did to bless others because that's what Jesus did to be useful to God because that's what Jesus did in the answer to your question of why do we do works it's to be like Christ it's not to earn God's favor it's not to supplement grace it's not to put the cross over the hump the cross would have failed without my good work it's none of those things it's none of those things our works also play a role in those things I should say let me just add the next thought before I get lost here I mean it's all those things our works also play a role in turning other hearts to the gospel that's part of being it's kind of a subset of being useful to God obviously but works are also about helping other people believe showing them making this faith you're talking about something they want something they know that they need and also presenting your community your believing community as something that they would want to be a part of because you've blessed them your community this person knows they can go to for help they can they know that you're going to help they know that you're going to help I'm just thinking here about Despo can I don't know how many weeks ago it is now we spent a whole hour talking about how Jesus related to people Jesus always told people the truth when they were in sin he didn't tell them they weren't sinning he told them the truth but somehow he made it impossible for them to conclude that he didn't care about them that's really difficult but that's the model that's the template in our culture you hear all the time about the younger generation they don't like the church because they don't see authenticity the solution to that is not to lie to them it's not to tell them that their sin isn't sin somebody in their life should have a high enough regard to them for them that they tell them the truth but at the same time they also make it impossible to conclude that you aren't in their corner as well please don't destroy yourself with sin if you do I will be here it's a really difficult balance and again nobody is saying it's easy Jesus is the template for doing that because he told people the truth but somehow they kept coming back the ones that seek him out are the ones who were leading the worst lives and he's telling them you know say and go live it up I'm endorsing your behavior he tells them the truth and we have very specific episodes about this people who are publicans and prostitutes I mean they are the ones that need the physician Jesus would say well the physician is going to tell them what's wrong but the physician is also going to have the solution the physician is also going to be there when they need help it's a difficult balance but he is the template for doing this just a couple of examples you have 1 Peter 1 12 concerning the salvation the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully inquiring what person or time the spirit of Christ was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories it was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven things into which angels long to look I mean there's something to be said that you tell people again what they need to hear even if they don't want to hear it because when you turn out to be right okay yes what I was doing for 5, 10, 20 years destroyed my life we have to believe that God is going to just like with the prophets they're always telling people what they don't want to hear but they were right and people are going to remember who it was that actually told them the truth who cared enough about them to actually tell them the truth you know and the idea isn't that when that person comes to you later you're like I was right wasn't I know that isn't what you do okay you bless them Philippians 2 14 through 15 Philippians 2 14 through 15 do all things without grumbling or disputing that you may be blameless and innocent children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation see you're right there let's just stop there Paul isn't saying do all things without grumbling or disputing that you can be perfect before God that you can earn salvation God just doesn't going to have a gripe with you God's going to have to let you in now he says do all these things be without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation among whom you shine as lights in the world holding fast to the word of life so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in labor in vain or labor in vain you know Paul this personal note from Paul Paul's not saying do this so that you earn brownie points with God he's saying people need to see the light they need to see your life this crooked and twisted generation they need to see a little light in the darkness and Paul's saying look you know if you do this it's going to make me feel good it's going to make me feel that my ministry meant something it's a brief fleeting very human thing for Paul to say but it's important do these things to be light in a crooked and twisted generation and if you do God will use that Titus 2.8 show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works why why so that God loves me now show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works and in your teaching show integrity, dignity and sound speech that cannot be condemned so that an opponent may be put to shame having nothing evil to say about us now the point of these verses is not so that you can win an argument the point is not hey Titus do this so that in the end you can win the argument you'll be the champion debate no he's saying right conduct will validate a true message people will judge the message by the conduct of the person giving the message if you live the right way people will know that the speaker can be trusted and that again is being light in the darkness in a crooked and twisted generation so there's any number of examples we could give here where the way you live impacts how people think about your message and of course the answer that isn't well okay I won't tell anybody I'm a Christian you know I'm not going to give anybody the gospel well you know thanks for bailing on the great commission thanks for ignoring that thing that Jesus you know said before he ascended you know it might have been important his parting words it might have been important you know that's not the answer of course the topic for our discussion here is why you know do we do what we do can we do it to bless people we do it you know to be useful to God we do it so that hearts will be turned we do it so that we don't invalidate the gospel that we don't invalidate the message believe it or not the way you live can turn people toward or away from eternal life it really can well isn't God sovereign you know God can bring somebody else yes he can he can bring somebody else along he can he can do that then God loves them so he will but see now you've you've filed yourself in the bucket you know when Paul talks to the Corinthians about suffering loss of the judgment seat of Christ you may not care now and it's not about being saved you will care when you see what your life could have meant and could have achieved in the big plan of God that's what the judgment seat of Christ is about it's not about getting into heaven it's about seeing seeing the role that you could have played and being rewarded for it you know just even knowing that the Lord is happy you know with something you did and we've talked about this in Q&As before everyone's going to suffer loss everyone's going to see where where they fell short but Paul also says everyone everyone who's at the judgment seat of Christ those who are believers you're right there everyone will receive some reward the issue is there will be some there will be regret you may not regret it now but you'll regret it later and it's not like God's happy God gets to put the screws to you one last time before we have eternal no that's just twisted thinking you know it's a motivation knowing that God wants to use you God has plans Ephesians 2.10 you were saved if it works God has plans for you and for you to kind of blow it because you're human and dumb you know like we all are that's one thing but for you to just say I'm just going to make life easier for myself and not put myself in these situations where I might have to say something about Jesus or I might have to help somebody I might have to be Jesus to somebody I'm going to try to avoid that you know I'm going to eat doritos here instead of my couch all day long that's just being useless and again you may not care now but you will care at some point that is what I'm trying to say you'll regret it the Lord will comfort you but you'll regret it and nobody wants to deliberately heap you know regret you know on themselves if you're in that camp then you've got some sort of pathology another thought here our works are a representation of God representation of Christ again works are directly related to imaging representing God mentioned this earlier which in turn is directly related to being a follower or disciple of Christ Christ is the highest expression of imaging God just I'm going to go through these verses real quick and then we'll hit one last question set in Corinthians 4-4 I mean think about this you know again when you ask yourself or you hear somebody ask well if works don't earn me anything why should I do them the short answer the one word answer is discipleship it's imitating Jesus you know then you can expand on bigger ideas like you know God saved you actually to do something in mind for you and your works will either get in the way or facilitate that plan you know and be like Jesus be a blessing be useful be helpful you know honor God you know that the person who is seeking the gospel seeking truth they're going to see your life and be led toward it or away from it these are important things but again Jesus is the primary example Jesus does all these things well perfectly you know he attracted people to the truth people couldn't couldn't leave a conversation with him with the impression that he didn't really give a rep okay he is the perfect example so you have 2nd Corinthians 4-4 Paul says in their case the God of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ who is the image of God again he is the perfect representation perfect representative if you're familiar with this podcast you know about the concept of imaging imaging God is representing God Romans 8-29 for those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son that's your destiny to be conformed to the image of his son being made more like Christ that's God's plan for you ultimately Colossians 3-10 put on the new self which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator there's that imaging language again 2nd Corinthians 3-18 we all with unveiled face beholding the glory of the Lord are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another for this comes from the Lord who is the spirit again this transform transformation into the same image into the image of God the image of his son 2nd Corinthians 7-1 we have these promises beloved let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God now notice he doesn't say let's clean ourselves up from every defilement of body and spirit in order to obtain the promises in order to get eternal life he doesn't say that since we have these promises beloved let us cleanse ourselves and this is a motivation for holiness to completion again we progress toward being conformed to what Jesus is 2nd Timothy 2-19 but God's firm foundation stands bearing this seal the Lord knows those who are His and let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity in other words let's have Jesus let's have people see you and make that reputation builder for Jesus I think the reputation of Jesus has suffered a bit in our culture and it's really honestly it's because of Christians in some cases people are offended at our theology I get that but there are any number of cases where we've given Jesus a bad reputation and by doing so giving God a bad reputation by our behavior behavior has nothing to do with God loving us God already loves us while we were yet sinners while we were enemies while we were the grocery list God loved us but it has a whole lot to do with what the lost think about Christ has a whole lot to do with that one last question why are these concepts which are so clear in Scripture such a struggle for so many believers I think there's several reasons this is no particular order and part of this I'm going to be speaking to pastors here right off the top of my head here right off the cuff I think that even though they're clear some people don't know them well I mean something being clear in Scripture and someone really knowing what Scripture says are often two different things it really takes concerted effort to grasp the content of Scripture and this subject matter in relation of faith and works is like anything else that's the good part put a little more negatively let me ask this question do you know this subject matter the relationship of good works to grace and faith to salvation do you know that subject matter with as much thoroughness as you do other things what are the things in Scripture that you really invest time in do you really invest time in this theological issue again I've met so many you know I can't think of anybody directly because people who usually come to my events aren't so invested in one particular thing so I'm going to just make a sweeping generalization and I know by experience by internet stuff and by going to different conferences and just lurking I know what I'm going to say here is going to hit home to somebody and I hope it does I'm not apologizing for it I hope that it does do you know this material as well as you know things about prophecy you know being an expert in prophecy and being kind of dumb when it comes to the relationship of faith and works is not a good thing the relationship of faith and works is more important than prophecy maybe it's demons maybe it's angels maybe it's you know whatever there are just a lot of people who get absorbed in certain subjects and then they just really they struggle and it harms them in many ways they struggle with the whole faith and works thing can you defend your view of the rapture more readily than navigate the grace and works issue if that's the case that's sad you know if you know more about the ashes of the red heifer or Gog and Magog than grace's superiority to the law I pity you because grace it's just nothing more important than understanding the gospel with clarity why a five year old can understand that and get saved Mike have you been listening have you been listening there are Christians everywhere in your family in your church in your circle of friends who can spit the gospel back to you they know the verses but they struggle with shame and guilt when they fail somehow the clarity of the gospel gets muddied in their minds they are influenced by their emotions by their feelings by their guilt and all of a sudden the clarity of the gospel morphs into I better buck up so God loves me that is a problem and again if you know all this arcane stuff that by and large is a lot of speculation let's be blunt about it if you're a master of those domains and you can't help somebody with this one I not only pity you I pity them it's just a misplaced priority another thought here why do we have this problem I would say in some cases we have preaching that is innocently misguided and I'm speaking to pastors here in other words one job of a pastor is to sort be sort of like an Old Testament prophet prophets were covenant enforcers they have to remind people prophets reminded people about how they should be living pastors have that job too pastors are to exhort the flock to follow Jesus to live like him follow his example of all these things they are to exhort people to love God and love others to be holy that's legitimate but sometimes I would say many times preachers fail to emphasize grace in equal measure pointing out sin and failure sometimes unfortunately people are left to wallow in shame and guilt inside which in turn makes them doubt that God loves them grace has to be given the high status it deserves the high status it has in the gospel message and it always will have in New Testament preaching pastors might say oh boy that makes me uncomfortable I'm almost kind of afraid to do that because people will probably abuse it so it doesn't matter how I live I can just go do what I want in other words you'll be like Paul again I've got news for you if Paul had this problem who are you you're going to have this problem because Paul did but knowing that this problem is out there that somebody out there is going to think badly think poorly and draw this conclusion knowing that's the case is not permission to distort New Testament theology by obscuring grace it doesn't it doesn't give you permission to do that you owe people the truth of the whole counsel of God and I would say also again just and I know pastors have a tough job this is again add this to my list of why I couldn't be one which is kind of long but I would also encourage pastors not rebuke them but encourage them to just stop presuming that the spirit can't clean up a mess yep people are going to draw the wrong conclusion they're going to they're going to do just what the people that Paul had in mind when he said you know shall we continue and send the grace maybe you're going to get those people but the spirit can clean up messes stop presuming it's your preaching that sanctifies people it's the spirit of God that sanctifies people it's not your preaching your job is to tell people the truth of scripture not to turn people into what they ought to be only the spirit of God can do that and prompt people to make decisions about their behavior it's part of sanctification sanctification is assisted when you tell people the truth about how they should live people need to hear that but I think preachers can get trapped into feeling like failures themselves and then they sort of go overboard in one direction they feel like failures when their people aren't godly that's understandable but you got to realize again a lot of that if you're doing the job and telling them the truth, telling them the things they need to hear then you need to leave the rest to the Lord that's God's job that is not in your job description your job description you've accomplished you have told people the truth and that means telling them about their sin it also means telling them about the love of God the grace of God and in this case showing them why scripture says about why we should live holy lives why scripture does talk about this a lot it's not about merit it's about being useful, being a blessing imitating Jesus another one and yes I have experienced this in life sometimes you have pastors who intentionally guilt people and like it I mean there are those people out there preaching about sin and about holiness becomes a control mechanism pulpit manipulation to be honest with you isn't that hard it's a skill that I've actually seen cultivated by people and it's alarming it's one of those things that just makes my blood boil but it's out there people do do that it's dishonest, actually it smacks of sort of caricature I guess at the time historically it wasn't a caricature but like medieval Catholicism withholding the means of grace in that theology to move herds of people or just the important ones to do what to do what you want it's just manipulation we're just as guilty non-Catholics are just as guilty if we go back in the Middle Ages it can of course happen now but our culture has been sufficiently paganized that lots of people who are Catholic the church says about most anything so it doesn't happen that often we on the Protestant side the evangelical side are actually better at this than that situation unfortunately this is just wrong it's just wrong to go the other direction where you preach in a certain way to make people think that not only do they have to do certain works so that God's happy with them but they have to build you up as the leader as the poobah and the pulpit that they have to serve you so that God's happy with them again I've seen that and I've had plenty of conversations with people around the country who've seen that too I mean being as kind as I can that's just dishonest I mean it's wicked when you come right down to it and I would say this kind of manipulation is one reason every person in the pew needs a certain command of scripture you have to hold the people in the pulpit accountable you just do and if they are good people they'll appreciate that they'll know that that is a ministry to them because you know you're all you're all equals you're all images of God you're all members of the body of Christ people who are sincere about ministering to you they will not mind that you're watchful eye if they know that you have their best interest in mind it works both ways last thought here I would think that one of the reasons why people struggle with this this is the fourth thing I'll throw out again these are in no particular order but just things I've experienced either myself or I've seen another reason the last reason why people struggle with this even though scripture is quite clear it's more validity to our guilt than we do to God's grace bottom line that's what you're doing if that's you I want you to think about this in a different way if that's you I just feel so guilty and I know God loves me but I just keep coming back to my feelings what you're doing is you're assigning more validity to your guilt than God's grace and if that's you that might be a new way of looking at it but that's what we've got here you've made yourself you've made your inner life you've made your feelings a higher authority than scripture and what you need to do is believe the truth more than you believe your feelings to which one of those two things are you assigning more worth again this is going to sound trite but I actually mean it I think it would be a good exercise to repeat Romans 5.8 to yourself every day when you wake up every night before you go to sleep and throughout the day make it a reflex thought while we're yet sinners Christ died for us your opinion of yourself is not superior to God's opinion of you and we repeat that your opinion of yourself is not superior to God's opinion of you if you're making your opinion superior God knew you while you were yet a sinner while you were yet an enemy so regardless of how you feel that's true so which of the two things are you embracing the only thing in the way of letting the truth rule in your heart is you you got to get out of your own way and it's an issue of biblical authority to which of those two things are you assigning more value to your feelings or what God says now to sum up again what I'm hoping people get out of this is that there are a lot of good reasons to do good works a lot of scriptural reasons to do good works to live a holy life as a Christian earning God's love is not one of them God loved you while you were his enemy his love cannot be earned and it's time to accept that and live accordingly and when you fail when you're ashamed remember he loved you even when you weren't ashamed he hasn't changed and he never will Mike I know I think we've pretty much got the salvation and good works but can you speak about the different degrees of reward in heaven that is based on our good deeds yeah but there you go it's not another episode but just in a nutshell what do you want to do full episode on that I'll mark it down I mean if you want to give us a quick summary if you can and we can put it down ultimately that question is related to how we conceive about life in the in the new creation because it's going to involve if we have the new creation which again heaven is really the new creation and that's what we're doing we're stored back to the Edenic state there's lots of things to do and by definition that requires different kinds of jobs different kinds of duties and I don't think any of them will be onerous or burdensome because hey it's heaven it's the new earth it's everything it should have been so I tend to think that a question like that degrees of reward is really about the kinds of tasks the kinds of things that we do in the new earth and you could look on the other side and say well who cares I'm there I'm going to like it anyway it's not going to be awful and that's true but there is going to be there's going to be hierarchy there just by definition I think more of the if I can even use this phrase more of the unfortunate side is actually about the judgment seat it's just it's knowing what our failures were but again that's going to yield to again the wonder of what the new life is so I don't know if there might be an episode in that I don't know I'll have to think about it but it's not that some people get good jobs and other people are going to hate their jobs you know in Eden it's Eden okay it's going to be wonderful no matter what but I think that the suffering loss issue is a big part of this but once you get in there it's true that you're in so I think if there's a negative part of this it's just knowing not necessarily a point of dissatisfaction of what my eternal state is going to be it's just knowing that in this life by virtue of the reward issue the reward ceremony if you want to call it that it's knowing that you disappointed the Lord in some way I think that's really what's at the heart of using that kind of reward language for a motivation alright well I'm going to mark that down Mike because I would love for you to do yeah that'd be great alright well great hopefully we have an episode now that people can refer to for reference so hopefully we have an episode now that's dedicated to that where people can point to and share hopefully there's somebody out there like you said that is struggling with this so hopefully they will come across this episode Mike hopefully have some peace yeah yeah I think we've all been there at one point or the other I know I was at one particular point in my Christian life a few years into it part of it was my circumstance but part of it honestly was I had to I had to yield my feelings to truth I had to give up winning the argument valuing my feelings more than what God said alright well we hope all of our listeners share this episode help our fellow Christians out there who are struggling with this subject sense salvation is the number one priority please please please please share it and get it to people who need it and I just want to thank everybody for listening to the Naked Bible Podcast God Bless To learn more about Dr. Heizer's other websites and blogs go to www.ermsh.com