 getting hugs, but she'll tell us what exactly is it and what she's all about, especially when it comes to the sphere specifics of mattress, mental health. Good morning to you, Nassim. You're welcome. So you can go right up into it. What exactly is postpartum depression and what exactly happens to, to, to people that have postpartum depression? Is it diagnosed? Does it have treatment? And what are some of the incidences or some of the experiences you've also had as a lead psychologist when it comes to that space? OK, so right into it. So for you to get a better concept of what postpartum is, then you need to understand the different categories of mental health. So we have like five, we have five main ones, but we also have like seven categories. So maybe I'll mention just a few. So we have anxiety disorders and the anxiety disorders. You have things like GAD, generalized anxiety disorder. You have OCD and you have PTSD. And then now from there, you also have now mood disorders, so which we'll now be talking about today. So under mood disorders, we have depression, which depression also has a category of its own with seven different types of depression. So one, we have major depressive disorders, which is also called clinical depression. We also have PMDD, premenstrual. Clinical meaning it has been diagnosed by a doctor. Yes, clinically. Yes. Or clinically. And now in medication as well. Exactly. So you can either use medication or you can use psychotherapy, but all you can combine both either psychotherapy and medication. You can use both of them. So it depends with the levels and severity of what you have. And then now from there, we have PMDD, which mainly affects women. It's premenstrual dysphoric disorder. So I don't really call it PMS on steroids. So it also comes with societal ideations. And sadly, most women don't know they're going through it because you find a week before your men says a week during your men says and a week after your men says you're always in a sort of mood. So either it also. You called it PMDD, premenstrual dysphoric disorder. So most women don't know. Is it like one of the latest mental health. It's not. It's always been there. It's always been there. Like I said, most people don't know about this. So if you're also learning, I'm shocked. I've never heard of it. I'm hearing it from now. You are professional. Like women go through a certain type of mental health before their periods. Yes. And not all of them, not all of them. Majority of them. So some may have came as the kind of cramping a little bit of mood thing. But others now there's is on steroids. So they're always on extreme mood. This is where people get in beefs with their partners. You know, it also it's also paired with societal ideation. So for a while, you think maybe you're suicidal, but maybe it's just PMDD. So even when you're screening, we like to rule out certain things in terms of what might be the reason behind either your societal ideation and everything. For on that PMDD, does it stem from a place of hormonal issues? Yes, that and also underlining conditions. So there's certain people we call risk factors and I'll also mention them when we're talking about postpartum. So risk factors are people that are at risk of experiencing this. So either maybe you have a history of depression, you've had a history of societal ideation and everything. So during your men's is a week before your men's is your hormones are heightened. So it triggers also that. And it's like it's a pattern. Just a week before. A week before it's supposed to be a week before during your men's is in a week after. So in a month, can you imagine you're only fine one week? If a month has four weeks, so you're OK, just one week. So it's really sad that most women don't know they're going through this. So they feel like that's just who they are, but technically it's a condition. And the good thing is once you realize it, then you know how to manage it. Because if you're always getting in arguments, you'll know how to copy it. You'll know instead of texting, I'll just refrain from texting a lot because I might end up saying something I don't mean. You end up regretting. But then also, I believe also one of the main solutions is monitoring things that trigger you. Because triggers work a lot, especially with people with mental health issues. Like what makes you angry? What makes you to lash out? What makes you to have an outburst? What makes you become mean to some people? Like are they triggering you? And is it you the problem of them? I talk about that as well. Yes, so also about triggers. Sorry if I digress a little bit. Sure, sure, sure. Rail me back in. So when you talk about triggers, in psychology there's something called a cognitive triangle. So what a cognitive triangle is, it states for you to react to something, there has to be a thought. And then your thought affects your feelings, your feelings affect your behavior. So that's the whole triangle. But then again, for you to have this thought, there has to be a trigger. So now the trigger is a situation. Either a person, someone said, an event or whatever. So for you to really, so for this is for cognitive restructuring. So cognitive restructuring states, you need first of all to understand what is happening in your brain, so that you can know how you behave or how you feel and how it affects your day to day. So for you to know that, then you need to know what triggers me. So under those triggers, you think about the thought. So there's something called an automatic thought. Automatic thought. Yes, so the automatic thought is the first thought that comes when a situation happens. For instance. For example, the grief. I like the one that, you've been told you've just lost your dad. He has died in a road accident. What exactly happens to that person's brain? And for example, they're in the middle of a job. They're just walking and boom, a notification, a call. That has been found dead at Mombasa Road. What will happen in that person's brain? Exactly. So now, so the automatic thought that will come it will depend on how this person interprets the message that they got. So you'll find there's someone that will freeze and they'll go with their normal day to day until five. Now after they clock out, that's when it starts sinking in that, okay, got this news. So it starts sinking in. And then there's another person that will immediately react on it. So again, it's how you interpret the situation or whatever news that you're given. So with that, you need to understand how does that then affect how I feel and how does that affect how I behave? Because if you think negatively, then most definitely you'll have a negative feeling about it and then you'll behave in a negative way. So yeah. Now let's get back to depression again from the start before we now get back to postpartum now or specifically about mothers. So for a person who doesn't understand what depression exactly means, because we've always heard somebody say, I feel today I'm depressed. It's very common to hear someone to say, once I feel depressed today, I'll not go to work. And I read somewhere self-diagnosis is always misdiagnosis. I don't know how true is it from an expert's mindset. Please talk about that. So first of all, we misuse those terms a lot. I'm depressed. I'm depressed. Oh, I'm bipolar today, I just feel bipolar today. So we misuse those terms a lot. So for you to be diagnosed with depression, you have to have experienced the same moods in terms of low moods. You know, you don't want to engage, withdraw and everything for two weeks. So come on, Leo, it must be for two weeks. Because if it's not for two weeks, then that's not depression. And by two weeks, I mean consecutive. I mean consecutively. So at Leo, you're feeling a little bit low. Kesho kofiti, the other dio kofiti. Then on Thursday, you feel again low and then you're like, okay, I'm depressed. So that's not depression. This thing needs to be continuous for at least two weeks for you to be clinically diagnosed with depression. So if it just happens, then that's just stress. And as a human being, we all go through stresses. So is stress a type of depression? Stress might lead to depression. Oh, might lead to depression. So those we call them contributing causes. I'm a contributing factor. Something that might lead to it. So if you don't know how to manage your stress well. So again, I love it to digress. So under stress, we divide it into three. Passive stress. So perceived stress is your perception. Whatever might stress me, might not stress you, right? So our perception is different. So maybe me, ishuyanguna stress is how I perceive it. So anything small, either see it as a big thing and it stresses me out. So if the issue is perception, then it means we need to deal with your cognitive, triangle and cognitive restructuring. Help you understand and help you learn how to perceive things differently and positively, right? And then now there's now the wellness stress. So the wellness stress, I normally say this a lot. There's something we call the eight dimension of well-being. So this state. Eight dimensions of well-being. Well-being. So it states for you to be well, these eight areas need to balance. Career, so basically career, your finances, family leisure, spirituality and all that. So for you to be well, these areas need to balance. But as humans, we find we fix it so much on one, we neglect the other. Like career more. Either we fix it on career more, or finances more, or family more. Or even physical. Physical more. Yes, or health. Exactly physical, you know. And physically call it the health. So you fix it so much on one that the rest are neglected. So these are misbalanced. The other one overwhelms these. Exactly. So it's like you're still stressed. So people are like, this person has a good family, he has a good job. It's because your wellness balance is not scaled well. But other people can't see that. Yes, and even for you, if you don't understand what your goals are when it comes to these eight dimensions, then you wouldn't know where the miss is. So people are confused like, what am I missing out? Why am I ungrateful? So you'll use terms like that. Like, why am I not being content in this and that? So kubekuna e re moja u me neglect. So the wellness stress scale assesses that how content are you with your eight dimensions? And then now from there, we look at now the coping mechanisms, the coping inventories of stress. Do you have support systems of when you're stressed? There are things that you go to, some are things that bring you joy, things that can help ease you and everything. So when we look at stress, we look at it in those three ways. So you need to understand how you perceive things. You need to understand your wellness scale. Is it balanced enough? And you also need to know, do I have good coping mechanisms? Do I have support systems that I can reach out to or things I do that can bring me joy when I'm in a kafang mood or when I'm not okay? And joy is really good. There's somebody who said, you better have joy than peace because peace can be temporary, but joy is internal and could be permanent. Now let's deep dive to postpartum depression. There's this crazy incident that happened in Kitangela where the mothers, I think she slaughtered her kid and ripped apart part of the kid's body. And then there's one that happened in Eldori test today where the mother slaughtered again a two year old and tried to harm the six year old and even now try to harm herself. Can we relate that to some of these issues, especially in kabsumata's postpartum depression? And what exactly happens to a mother, especially in that instance where she's given birth, let's say like today, what usually happens in her body and in her mind before she gets to such places? Okay, so I'll answer that into different ways. So one, first of all, there are different types of, we call them postpartum psychiatric issues. So postpartum psychiatric issues? Yes, psychiatric issues. So under those, there are three things. Baby blues, which is postpartum blues, but commonly known as baby blues. So this is where a mother- Baby fever, Amor does that. Please explain what baby blues means. Baby fever is very different. Or baby fever is more of excitement and happiness. Yes, and I don't think that is psychological. I don't think it's in the GSM five or something about baby fevers. But blues? Baby blues is whereby a mom has just given birth and then there are things that are different. So again, I'll go back to contributing factors. So there are certain contributing factors that might lead to postpartum because there's no one exact thing that leads to postpartum, but there are different things that might lead to it. So one of the contributing factors to either baby blues, postpartum depression or postpartum tecrosis is hormones. Because again, you figure out this person has carried a whole human being for nine months and everything. They've just given birth, the placenta is out and everything. So the hormone shift from up here all the way to down here. So of course, there'll be those two depressive states because something feels a little bit off, right? So that may be one of it. Another thing is sleep deprivation. Again, you figure out you've just had a new baby. The sleeping patterns are very different. You're up at night almost four, five times and everything. So you might become sleep deprived. So that might also lead to that car blues and depressive state and everything. And then another thing is anxiety, especially to new moms, that anxiety of, will I be a good mom? Do I have this, how will I turn out? How will my baby be on all those anxious thoughts that you have? So if all these things are not addressed and taken care of, then it might lead to the three types of postpartum. So the baby blues, the difference about the baby blues is it doesn't affect how you take care of yourself as a mom and how you take care of your kid. And the thing about it is it wears off by itself. So it doesn't need like medication. No, it's just a blues. And then it lasts for around one week to one and a half weeks. It doesn't go past the two weeks threshold of clinically being diagnosed with it. So it wears off. There's a place of right where it says it can even go up to past three years. No, not that is postpartum. Baby blues only goes for within a week or two weeks. So it's self healing. It's more of the body recovering itself. Now for a mother that doesn't have the tools maybe or how to go about it, because you know, especially like for fast babies they hear fasts are usually like, they come with a lot of experiences. Maybe they're feeling like it's done and they might not exactly find a portal of how to actually even explain themselves, especially for those in rural areas. And some even equate it to witchcraft as well. They were like, hey, I'm going to go to an Iroga. But then it's like you said, it will go after two weeks. How can they cope through that in as much as it doesn't need medication now? So now for the baby blues, like I said, it wears off by itself. So all you need to do as a mom is keep going with your day to day. Affirmations work, a good support system also works. By support system I mean having good help in terms of people around you during this time that you've just given birth and everything. Your partner can also play a huge role in making sure like, you can feed it too. That is the father of the baby. The father of the baby, yes. Or even the parents to the new parents, the mother to the new mom or the mother to the husband. Generally the family support. Yes, the family support goes along in such a time. Because again, now we look into now postpartum. So postpartum is what you said. It can go all the way up to three years. So it may start within the first two weeks. It may go one month. It may go a few months. It may go one year, years. If it's not taken care of, it will keep on affecting the mom and the connection of the baby. So for this one, baby blues, I said you can take care of yourself and you can take care of the baby. But for postpartum, you start neglecting yourself too. So basic things, small things like grooming yourself, taking a shower, just taking care of yourself, it becomes a task. A problem. It becomes a problem. The same thing with taking care of the baby. So you don't even take care of the baby. You don't nurse the baby. You don't want to, for some people, they don't wanna see the baby. Or even breastfeed. Yes. Like I mentioned, it's a disconnection. Yes. So you have a complete disconnection with your baby. You don't even want, not just also your baby, also with your family. You want to isolate kiddo go. There's frequent crying. For some people, there's increased appetite. For some days, a loss of appetite. And then now the red flag to eat is where now you start having ideations of harming yourself or harming the baby. The baby. Or both of you now. Or both of you now. And also another person. Or another person. Yes. In this case, like I said, there are contributing factors and there are also risk factors. So when I say risk factors, I mean people that are at a risk of having postpartum. So these are people that have a history of mood disorders. Remember I told you mood disorders are either depression or bipolar. So if you have a history of bipolar or if you have a history of depression, then high chances are you might get it. And also some of these ecological conditions are genetic. So if someone... Like you can inherit. Yes. Your mother used to be angry all the time. And then you... You just inherited anger from your mom. Yes. And I say we're going to take you to a pastor we do deliverance. And like you say your mom went out with your dad, but anyway. Right. I know. Or your dad at thought he just shocked us. So it's like your curry. And it's interesting because we had mentioned that in our intro where I was trying to share with my co-host that there's people who have inherited problems from their parents. Like you are rejected by your dad. So you'll constantly keep on meeting men who reject you. And women who just do you exactly the way your dad did your mom in that quotation language. So it's like a pattern extending. It is a pattern. And is there a way we can solve it so that we help people out here? Yeah. By understanding the patterns and learning how to break them. So allow me to digress to let it don't go. Please get deeper into it. Yes. So you see like what you mentioned the example you gave your dad wasn't treating your mom well. You end up finding that you're attracting similar men and everything. So these are things we call co-beliefs. So co-beliefs in layman terms are the glasses we use to see life with. So through co-beliefs we formulate certain assumptions and we formulate certain rules about life. Facades and realities. Yes. So for you maybe you feel like this is how love should be. Right. Right. I don't know if you've heard of people who've grown up in abusive homes and they feel like this is what real love is because this is what dad used to do to mom and she's still stuck around and so. And also they've known for their lives. So in one way or another you start attracting that you start going after that. Right. So you need to first of all understand what co-beliefs you've learned from your childhood experiences. And these co-beliefs are also learned by just observing. Right. So what are some of those co-beliefs you've learned and this is where you hear things like unlearning certain behaviors that you had. Experiences as well. Experiences, yes. Relying some of the things that worked back then and learning new ways to cut off the toxic the toxic traits that has been passed on to generations and everything. So it is true that you can carry certain burdens that like trauma inheriting trauma and carrying it all along your life. And you might not even be aware of it. Exactly. That can be dangerous. It is dangerous. And also another thing is also understanding your attachment styles. How do you attach to them? Right. We'll talk about that attachment because there's a friend who is telling me she's also I think at some psychosocial support organization and she was sharing that there's people who she has friends when they talk to her when they text her and she doesn't respond in like 10 minutes. The other friend feels like and I'm ignore or she has started dating somebody else. So they are so attached to a point the reality is that if you're not responding to me you're dating someone else. Now see if you're at her and she knows that that's a type of attachment. We'll talk about it please. So again attachment also come from experiences you had. What type of attachment did you and your caregiver have? So by caregiver I mean either your parents, your siblings, people who are around you when you're growing up. Right. So there are two main types of attachment which is secure and anxious. But now under the anxious the anxious attachment is divided into three. There's anxious, avoidance, anxious, disorganized and so on. So for you you need to understand what type of attachment do you have. So if you have an anxious attachment then the main thing that I normally tell my clients is to understand if it's an anxious attachment what soothes your anxious attachment? Because if you know I have an anxious attachment what would soothe it? So understanding... Soothing it meaning? By soothing I mean if I'm that type of when I text you I start feeling like ignoring me and everything what would soothe that? So maybe something that would soothe that is a reassurance of just understand if I text if you text me and I don't reply immediately I'm a little bit held up but I'll eventually get... Or I'm just busy. Yes. But I'll eventually get back to you. So when you tell me that make sure you get back to me so that soothes me. So that reassurance... It's like a form of assurance and affirmation. Yes. And what is usually happening in the mind of this person who always feels like that? Like in architects who don't respond they'll get angry. They definitely get angry. So maybe they had some sort of abandonment when they were young. All right, abandonment. It's a combination of a lot of things. So again, you really need... So for such people the first thing that we normally do is something called tracing your anxious attachment. So by tracing your anxious attachment we do... I do it in three decades. If you're 30 years we do it in three decades. So from age one to 10 of course you won't remember what happened within the first five years of your life. So maybe from age six to 10... I can remember what happened to me from first... From year one to... Maybe let's say from year three. For me I can. I have images of everything that transpires. Exactly. So in that case when you're tracing it we try and figure out what happened in age one to 10, 10 to 20, 20 to 30. So understanding that by this I mean what was difficult for you. What was an uncomfortable attachment you had with someone. So by tracing it when you look the more you've ticked in every decade then that's where the issue started. So you started dressing it now like somebody's 45 but you're helping him solve things that happened to him at five years old. Oh my goodness. That's crazy. Now that's where also things like reparenting comes in. Reparenting. Yes, reparenting yourself. Because again people feel like there's certain things that they should have gotten from their parents but they missed. And then they carry that grudge with them. So why don't you're not old enough? You have the means. You're psychologically capable of doing this. So why don't you do it yourself? So reparenting comes in. So again. So you do it yourself not like finding it in somebody else. No, you do it yourself. The main purpose of therapy I normally say is to become dependent. Not self dependent. Yes, self dependent not dependent to someone else. In the sense that even with soothing anxious attachment yes, I need reassurance but can you give it to yourself first? Can you sit down and tell yourself okay, now I'm bugging. I'm overthinking. I'm doing this. I need to chill. Can you be able to control your thoughts before you expect someone else to manage you or something like manage your emotions and all that. So it needs to start from within. So again is understanding what is the whole? What am I missing out on? What is that thing? Because again you'll realize there's certain people who crave relationships, right? So if you're craving this relationship what exactly, what is that whole that you want to feel? You are looking for. To feel. Yes, what is that thing that what is that void? And can you feel that void yourself? Because if you can't feel that void yourself then you're in big trouble because you'll always be a people pleaser. Yes, you'll always find yourself conforming into what you think people want so that you can fit in and everything. So again also self-awareness and everything. We'll come back to that and the insecurities and also anger because I think in one of our interests we had talked about that as well. Now to mothers who start feeling abandoned we were stuck there. An incident for example she got pregnant. The father was, I'll say maybe the person who they got pregnant with is not in the picture. In short they abandoned them. So they start feeling neglected. They are so angry. The baby, it's around six months before the baby is due. So they feel abandoned. They feel rejected. And now they start receiving pressure from the parents. They'll be like, sir, I look for a mimba. Do you want me to watch us? I said look at you. You've disappointed us. Is there a way the baby is marinating in that rejection and that anger and frustration? And to a point, when this baby will be born they will definitely have those patterns of abandonment, rejection and anger. Is it possible? Is it happening? Or in fact it's a reality. It's actually, it is a reality that parents or moms who don't manage their postpartum, it can be transferred to the kids psychological, psychologically. So you'll find the kid will start getting some of it. Like I said, some of these things is how you interacted with your caregivers. So imagine you had a mom who didn't want to nurse you, a mom who was dismissive and everything. Growing up, you also carry that with you. So it is a fact that if it's not resolved early by the mom and everything and people around her and so on, it can transfer to the kid. So yes. But your story of marinating in the womb is easy, you know. Because I had some, I think it was Jan who said that your kid marinated in rejection. The moment the father went missing from the picture, like the mother got disappointed and that energy was transferred consciously to the baby. So the kid is always carrying anger and rejection and abandonment and she's not aware. So it's like, wow, that's must be intense. Very intense. Now when it comes still to postpartum, is there like medical treatment for especially mothers that have gone into it for like maybe let's say three, three months as well. Is there medical treatment? Can they seek psychosocial support? Are there organizations that are even ready to help mothers that are going through postpartum? Yes. So the treatment plan again is either medication or psychotherapy. But again, depending on the severity of the postpartum that the person has. Because again, remember, I mentioned again, there's another type that is called postpartum psychosis. So for postpartum psychosis, it needs an inpatient type of thing whereby apelicoacy, like the mom is separated from the kid for a short period, architohosy, apatio-tripet and everything. But if it's postpartum, then we can do psychotherapy without necessarily going to hosy for inpatient. We can do psychotherapy and medication, antidepressants can also come in and everything. So let me just mention the difference between postpartum. I mentioned the difference between postpartum and baby blues. So let me mention postpartum and depression and postpartum psychosis. So postpartum psychosis, like I mentioned, there are different types, categories of mental health. So I already mentioned the mood, the anxiety, the personality, and then there's a different type of disorder that is called psychotic disorders. So on the psychotic disorders, it's things like what do you say in the case of apelicoacy, it's a disease. So by the way, they call it corogo. I don't know if you've heard of such an incident. They say unfortunately, this is Africa, so most definitely it could lead us to Riza corogo. So could be true. Contributing factors. No, I don't know. I wouldn't say that. I'll talk medically and scientifically, but I don't know anything about. But that's more spiritual. Yes, I think that's more spiritual. But then again, I don't really say there's nothing wrong with believing in spirituality and also getting, seeking medical help. Medical help. Yeah, go ahead. So for that, that is specifically called schizophrenia. So with schizophrenia, it has hallucinations, it has illusions, and it has delusions. So hallucinations, there is visual and there's auditory. So visual and auditory is whereby you hear things that are not there or you see things that are not there. And then delusions is whereby you believe in, you believe in something that is not necessarily true. So for postpartum psychosis, you have those illusions, you have those delusions, you have those hallucinations, but are specifically targeted towards the baby. So this is whereby you feel like the baby is evil, so you need to kill the baby to save the population or to save it from itself and everything. So all these psychosis are directly targeted towards the baby. So the difference between that and schizophrenia is schizophrenia is general to you and your illusions and delusions and everything that go towards the baby. So this is where you find either parents, moms kill their babies because they feel like either the baby is evil or the baby, whatever reason that they may have in their head. So that is postpartum psychosis. So the psychosis is a different level with postpartum. Let's digress in just a minute as we end. For example, now for a person away from postpartum, just a little bit from your expert's mindset. For example, person who has extreme anger could be both male or female. How can they heal from things that make them angry? You'd find like just something small, like somebody stepping on your foot in a car or in a matatu, it makes your entire day bad. Like you already have a bad day. You're already sad, angry, disappointed. And when you come to work or wherever you're going, you project the same anger onto other people and it seems like now people start saying you have a problem. But then if only we sat down and actually ask, what is ailing you? What is making you angry? How can you heal such a person? So again, I'll digress just a little bit just for you to understand it better. Like I said, remember I mentioned something called a cognitive triangle in terms of how you interpret situation. So two scenarios. Mi mi ni kanyagwe kwa matu. The well-interpreted is haku ni yona. So I'll just brush it off. In your mind. In my mind. Yes, this is happening in my mind. But for you, you will either catastrophizing is worst case scenario. Thinking of worst case scenario. So for you, you'll catastrophize and be like Umsen and Darau. Like why would you even step on me? So of course to Takasirika. Amanan and Chukia, so of course to Takasirika. So that is one way of looking at it. Restructuring your thoughts. Another way is understand. There's something we call anger icebergs. When you're dealing with anger management, the first thing we look at is an anger iceberg. So iceberg, but yet we look at it. Ukuju, it might look small, it might look big, but ukucini, it either is huge or small. So understanding your anger iceberg is what I can see up at you is the anger that I have. The boiling anger and everything. But what is really feeding it, right? Same scenario kwa matu. Mi mi me ja. Mi mi wote ju home. Ni lik tokaka ni me ja. Ni me kasirikia. Mi partner or something. So ape vi kwa. Or kya taka or whatever, right? Anaji rani trua liam kaki blast music. Ni kabue ka sinio. And you carry that energy. And I carry that energy. So under my anger iceberg, what this person saw was the anger, but whatever was feeding my anger is whatever issues I left home with. So understanding your anger iceberg plays a big role because you understand the bigger picture. Why am I really angry? So addressing that. So it's good to ask yourself, why am I really angry? Why is this coming? And why am I sad, right? Yes. So I'm told we have to wrap it up. Tell us about your organization and how people can plug in if they need your psychosocial support and some of the services you're offering just less than a minute. This is your camera and you can give out your number as well. This is your camera. So you can reach us out at hags.co.ke on all platforms. We actually have an event on Saturday. So you can also come through. It's gonna be a fun event hosted by Anger IMAX. So we'll talk about anxiety, depression, and all that. You can reach us through 0715-929-406. No, once again. Say the number. 0715-929-406. All right. And thank you so much, Kata, for your time. She's a lead psychologist and founder of HAGS. Organization in full hags is? Hardiness and earth's great success. Hardiness? And earth's great success. So hardiness is more like resilience. So when you're resilient, you can tap into your potential and everything. So that's what we try to instill in youths. So our organization also focuses on adolescents and youths. Yes. And it's an organization run by the youths for the youths. Right. Run by the youth for the youth. Thank you so much. And definitely, if you have any other insights, be easy to call in and say you want to pop by. It's OK. All right. And we're going to take a very short break, but you can interact with us on that hashtag if you want in the morning at waytofofo.com channel at Brian's The Corner One. We'll come back with much more. Stick around.