 All right, I'm excited to be here today with the founders of the whole heart brotherhood Jeremy Jonathan Jesse welcome to you and the first question I want to ask is How would you describe the? who is the whole heart brotherhood for and What does it help them do or do for them? Mm-hmm Well, yeah, so we're creating a community for men who want to just practice connecting with other men I mean, it's kind of as simple as that just kind of to Get a little bit outside of the boxes that we might get put into by the way we were brought up And yeah, just practice reaching for each other a little bit more Yeah, thank you and it is so great that you're doing this because I see a lot of support for support groups Offline and online these days mostly online for women, you know, there's a lot of women's circles and women's groups and Also, you know, I don't know if I'm making too much of a stereotype, but I think women also tend to be better at forming relationships that are supportive, etc. And We guys tend to be more tend to be less less good at that. I think I think there was research in saying that, you know, kind of there's Men with friends, you know, kind of that that depletes over the years But I don't know if any of you can can share something like that. Yeah, maybe maybe we could start there What what is what is the problem? What what why why are we creating this? Yeah Well, I can tell you how I noticed the problem in my own life is Having the realization that while I had friends of a variety of genders Given the choice between like going to a movie with Male friend or going to a movie with like a female or gender fluid or non-binary friend I would consistently choose anyone but the male friend like there is a way that I was Myself holding back in reaching out to the men in my life even for not very vulnerable connection Like just let's go see a movie. Let's go have a beer let alone the more vulnerable stuff and The more vulnerability was involved to the more it the Sphere of people I was willing to have that connection with got smaller and smaller to where my full self was really only available to someone I was in romantic partnership with and I just got to a point where that felt really frustrating and like not enough And I realized I really need more support in my life than just a romantic partner can provide I heard this term years ago from a very smart person. He said rugged couple of them It's like yeah, it's just so it's so true Yeah, and keep going. I want I want to hear from Jeremy. Haven't heard you Yeah, I definitely feel like very similar if like that. There's a I I Only quick parts of myself I sure I end up sharing with my partner and there's Trying to foster that connection with men has It's it's a little bit like going upstream for me. Like I do have some of those connections and Jof and Jesse are ones that we've been actually practicing this other way of like letting ourselves be vulnerable with each other And practicing this brotherhood together But for me also there's been I think it's it's been hard to call myself a man actually growing up because it's just what it meant and That there's resistance to the identity of like I'm not supposed to show emotions. I'm not supposed to I'm supposed to like be this womanizer type personality that just what never felt like me or who I wanted to be and that that for me like was a lot of the Motivation of what I see as the problem of like I Bringing together a place of connection for men where we can support each other and move beyond What like we've had to be and bring be all of who we are Yeah, awesome. And so what are some of the skills that The whole heart brotherhood will teach or practice that you know men could bring You know into their lives their work the relationships Empathic listening I think is a big one And what does that mean? Just really being able like empathy is just sort of the ability to kind of get what it's like in someone else's world And so like just the ability to kind of hold space for someone in that way when you're in connection with them Like oh Okay, like I get that your world is kind of shaped like this and it might be a little different than my world But I'm able to hold the complexity of the two of our worlds together And how they might be kind of interacting with each other Like that's a skill that will be developing Awesome, and Jonathan. I'll just we'll kind of go in that order Jonathan. What about what's another skill? Another one is self-awareness And that's that's really where the whole part of whole heart came from is this realization that part of our socialization is men is Learning to deny huge parts of ourselves and just kind of sweep them under the rug Because we get taught that they're not acceptable that they're too much that they're not appropriate for most contexts and so Just cultivating the self-awareness to like have an intimate relationship with all of myself and like Welcome myself when I'm angry and to welcome myself when I'm grieving and to welcome myself when I'm Bursting with joy and to like allow all of those things to happen fully is a big part of what we want to Give to people give to men is this opportunity to just fully express your whole self Yeah, this is awesome and Jeremy before you go there. I just want to share I This today has been a bit of a strange day for me And several things happen, but one of the things that happened was that I Got angry at a particular social media thread that I saw it I guess maybe a Painted me in a kind of bad light And I probably have some you know some fault in that But yeah, I got back every one angry like people don't understand What I'm talking about here and and of course I Went to my wife, and I don't think I went to my wife in the best state To have this to have this expression I'm like, you don't understand me either And I was like this is where the whole whole heart brotherhood needs to come in right like like yeah It's like it's like learning to be with like I think wouldn't you know, this is this is interesting And now this is turning to a therapy session for George Like I think I don't know if this is true for other men, but I know that I have had a difficult time Like when I'm angry, I don't want to talk about it Because if I talk about it, I get more angry Whereas whereas I'm like all my life. I've been like this right and I know this of course Chance women are more open to you know, they want to talk talk it through talk about it And then that makes them feel better. I'm like Talk about I get more angry because I start thinking about those issues issues And I think that's what you're talking about, you know Jonathan with self-awareness being being okay with these different feelings and the wholeness that we learn is such a powerful skill and skill set really to operate in in life with but Jeremy do you want to share? Yeah, I mean on on that actually that so another skill that we want to bring in is Calling in versus calling out And this works in particular way of like at just as you are saying with anger and when you're not able to necessarily have that Self-reflection the moment. How can we as a community? Hold space to not shame you for having that anger when said call you in to noticing yourself and Like bring you into that Yes, yes Yeah And yeah, George, I love that you're I love just a little slice of life that you're sharing with us Yeah, it's really beautiful. Mm-hmm. I imagine all of us can relate in one way or another like that's that's totally on point I think that's what right yeah, this basically yeah, yeah, and even there's a skillfulness and noticing oh if I talk about it, I'm just gonna get more angry and That's part of what we want to share too is like we're not gonna make you talk about it If you're like that's not actually gonna serve me right and so so then it's like we're gonna get creative together as a group and say Okay, what can we do that does help you to move this energy through you and not intensify it and we can support you in that Yeah, it's so cool. So Jeremy is there another kind of part of the brotherhood or skill that you want to want to share I mean that I That was one chair. I can share another which is Say ownership language is a big piece too or just having a sense of taking responsibility for your own feelings for your own experience and Having that orientation of like this is what I know to be true and beyond that is a story I'm making up about what's that what's happening and So that we can be in connection around that but owning our own experience is just a way of Relating that I think we're all familiar and being in some more communities around That that allows for us as a foundation to to have connection and And cleanness with what is mine what somebody else's I have an example of how We might do that in our group Yeah, cuz cuz a lot of us so the three of us share some common origins at least in some of this facilitation In the authentic relating community of practice and so some of the tools that we're bringing our authentic relating games Which is kind of like relational yoga Like you're breaking down little different facets of being in connection and relation with people and like Stretching and practicing new skills sort of like that. So one way what Jeremy just said about ownership language there's a game called truths and The way that we would play that is just by saying when you blank I felt blank So it's like Jeremy when you shared that I felt Grateful or something like that. And so that is practicing ownership language notice. I'm not saying like when you judged me or like when you Now I'm struggling to do the opposite thing but like yeah, there's there's lots of ways We could not own our experience of just like projecting onto someone. Yeah, like I could say you you did this And that's why I feel this way totally It's like and it's your fault and you got to make me feel better, right? Which is like that's a true experience that that's an experience that you're having for sure And it's like yeah, how can we hold that and hold you know, right of the the complexity Like it's your responsibility to behave say the right thing so that I feel good, you know, and well There's a lot of that going on in society Yeah, so Who would you say This the wholeheart brotherhood is really kind of designed for like maybe describe The type of man, you know What they're going through or what they're wanting to experience in their life Jonathan how about we'll start with you Yeah, I think a big part of it is fundamentally they're lonely There is Just this creeping loneliness in the life of men that gets more and more intense as we get older And I felt it in my own life I see it in the lives of the men who are my friends and the man who are in in my family and I really want to counteract that like I want to make sure that like we have strong bonds of love to support us throughout our life and for that life to be a really rich one and Honestly, like what you mentioned earlier George about like how women seem to get socialized to be better at this I feel jealous of women a lot when I see the bonds that they are able to have Like I want that And and so yeah, I just really that's the fundamentally It's like it's for the man who's looking at himself and feeling Lonely and he's looking at the the women around him and saying why can't I have what they have? and Who's just wanting to have a more healthy and warm a connection with other men And what's the I Think I actually I'll just say I think we all remember Like what best friends were like when we were younger. I mean we were more likely to have had best friends when you know Elementary school, you know, maybe high school, maybe college and then those friendships start to fade away as we as we leave high school or college because we're not we don't go to class the same You know go to sports teams or any other activities like at that Rick kind of rhythm So maybe a question I have for you Jeremy is how does the wholeheart brotherhood? bring That kind that kind of friendship back and especially these days we do everything online So wholeheart brother, of course is starting as an online community So what are what are some some of the activities that that that we're gonna be doing? yeah, so We're starting with our first course, which is gonna be the art of brotherhood and in this we're Meeting meeting every week and we're also going to be pairing people up and having these activities this these meetings are going to be less information based and more actually Being with each other and having these kind of connections these and going deep really fast like we've shared that we've had this common background of authentic relating and like Create these events so that people can in a short period of time have very deep connections with each other that then can expand and take over a six-week period and remain friends If that relationship like if there's mutual interest in that Can you give an example of? Let's say in that experience. Yeah, let's say I was paired up with someone like what what what's happening in that exercise? Is there a question that you're asking or sure? One of my favorite authentic relating games is called empathy Empathy is a game where If I'm talking I'll talk for two minutes on just Anything that's most alive in my heart something I want to share and you'll listen And then you'll take a minute and reflect back to me what you heard and then I'll go again on anything that I think you either missed or Hearing that reflection. This is what I really want you to get and In this kind of back-and-forth There's leaving this feeling at the end of like you really get me You've really heard me and felt me way more than I normally feel on a conversation That's awesome. Awesome. Jesse. Is there another exercise or? Part of the the the brother experience that you want to bring forward or maybe there's another authentic relating exercise Yeah, I mean kind of what I want to say is that we're We're really holding space for this to be kind of an evolutionary container and so We don't we don't quite know yet exactly the details of how it looks you know, I think a lot of that depends on who shows up and Who's drawn to this work and you know, who's in our in our cohort? You know, and there there is a way well, we'll be practicing some give-and-take with the men that show up To kind of design it around their needs at that time And yeah, just practice some responsive leadership in that way So, so yeah, I mean we have a whole tool belt to pull from not just from authentic relating games but from presence practices like circling or Co-counseling or you know improv games or you know, we've got all kinds of stuff that we got But yeah, I think there's a lot of it that will be kind of responding to a real-time needs of the group Yeah, I'd say we're kind of like jazz musicians who've been practicing and practicing Every single scale in the book and like we're gonna show up knowing a lot of scales But we don't necessarily know exactly what the melody is gonna be Until we're there and we have the people in the room and we say here's what this room seems to need To the best of our taste and ability Yeah, emergent style of leadership and I just want to spend a minute or two talking about what is the What do you envision to be? I guess a changed man or or a more whole Yeah, a more whole man like like how does that what does that look like in that man's life? And What we could talk about relationship we could talk about his work or his family relationships Yeah, I'll let any of you start that For me, I think the essence essential word is welcoming like well welcoming whatever arises in himself Welcoming what arises in the others that he's in relationship with and just being like it is okay for this to be happening This is welcome in my world And just it's a it's a way of being in harmony with whatever is happening And it doesn't necessarily have to be perfect or finished But it's like an attitude of when I'm not feeling welcoming I know that there's some part of me that's capable of that and I can trust that I'll get there right Eventually, yeah Yeah, yeah Jeremy any How else would you describe? Yeah, and right now Jeremy? I just want to say you're you're a new dad And so you have multiple ways of expressing this. Yes Yeah, so a lot of a lot of this work. I'm also doing with new dads And this is a broader scope of the same kind of work Yeah, I'm I Think for me The one the first thing that comes to mind actually with a question is it's not a destination and that is constantly a practice and it's constantly like Being with what's emerging and it's not that Being on a steady line. In fact, actually, that's kind of the opposite of what we're trying to do is There's a lot of this conditioning of needing to be a rock and being steady and It's okay to be off off that baseline It's also just knowing how to find your way back and knowing how to be in connection with others and connection with yourself There's a one of my favorite little lines is I'm bigger than anything that can happen to me As letting yourself expand to being able to notice what's happening if it's triggering or whatever and welcoming that As as Johnson said it all comes back to this welcoming of it and letting it letting it be here Jesse anything you want to add to that? Yeah, just a quick one I think in my own life one thing that I've really noticed as I've done men's work over the past six years is Just my ability now to remember that I have a community or multiple communities that I'm part of and to reach out for them for Support when I need it and to show up for people who need support in those communities as well That to me feels like such a fundamental change from the way that I grew up Just being kind of an isolated nerd who would take refuge in my computer, you know and or books Which you know, I still do that sometimes but I think the difference is that now I just I'm better at remembering like Okay, I can reach for people in this way and it feels really good when I do Awesome Well, we have a few minutes left and I want to make sure people understand who are watching this a couple things Actually, one thing I want to ask is I know there are a lot of women probably watching this or part of this How would you you know a lot of times it's I mean maybe I'll speak for myself and the men I know we don't tend to reach out for help as Maybe as readily as some women do and So if there is a woman watching this and saying, ah, there's somebody in my life, you know, my brother son friend colleague Who would probably benefit from this? What's what's maybe what's a way to let them know about it? Maybe just watch this video. I don't know What's what's your what's your suggestion? Jonathan anything you want to say or any of you any of you can share? Yeah, it's a great question Because I think something we've noticed already is often women are among our biggest fans Because because I think they see the need for this more than the men themselves often do because as men We got so practiced at denying parts of ourselves Sweep it under the rug So, yeah, I man up. Yeah right, right a lot of the time a Lot of the time what what's needed and I've definitely felt this from women in my life is just for someone number one to let me know How much they love me first and then to say I like I really think you need some support here and and I want to encourage you in doing that for yourself as a gift to yourself and When the women in my life have done that for me I have felt so open to like Exploring in that direction that that they said hey, I think there's something for you over there But yeah, I think the key to it was like that it it wasn't this message of there's something wrong with you It's just like I want to support you and growing into what you have the potential to be Yeah, I was I was I was actually thinking like You know if my wife said hey this thing looks really cool. I just I saw this somewhere and it looked really cool I thought you might enjoy it You know might get peak my curiosity to kind of check it out. So Logistical questions quickly before we go is How often? Do do the do people meet in the group and any other logistical things that we need to know about So well, so we're actually launching We're doing a free taster event like a free intro event Let's see it is a Friday May 22nd. Yeah, and by the way if people might be watching this months from now So you probably I imagine you guys will have that On a regular basis. So be sure to check out the website for all that so first thing is really to go to the free taster event and Right, and we'll be doing those periodically. So probably, you know, no matter when you're watching this Then we should have Right and to get involved means I think the cost is pretty reasonable I'm not going to say that because I don't know what it's going to be by the time people watch this but from what I understand It's it's very reasonable very affordable and for the kind of support that you get How often do you guys expect to meet? Like has been participate like once a week or yeah Yeah, we go ahead Yeah, we plan on we plan on doing once a week for our the courses that we're running and There'll be like two hours Each time and be for a set period of time that you're in a certain cohort And within that you'll also be part of a larger men's community that is just ongoing It has constant flow of like it's basically a private social social network So it's kind of as much as you want to participate and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay website Wholeheartbrotherhood.com wholeheartbrotherhood.com. So be sure to check that out guys and gals for your guys Thank you so much for doing this work. It's really it's really needed and really glad that you're the ones facilitating it Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thanks so much