 Good evening and welcome to Episode 310 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Usama Ndouma, Kumalo. It's the Monday edition of the Private Property Podcast, we're kicking off Women's Month. And if you're joining us for the first time, welcome to the only daily property podcast in South Africa. Make sure that you catch up on all the great episodes that we've already had on our Facebook or YouTube page because you certainly want to make sure that you are up to date on all things relating to property that we have covered on this show. And to our regular viewers on Facebook, whether it's the top fan, gang members, or on YouTube, welcome to it. You know how we do every single weekday. You and I have an appointment at 7 p.m. We're always in conversation with a property expert who helps us navigate our property issues. Doesn't matter where you are in the property value chain, whether you're looking to buy, to sell, to build, whether you're a renter or a landlord. This is the show that helps you make better property decisions. And talking about making better property decisions, you can, of course, catch a whole host of other shows across private properties, social, media pages. As it is a mandate, you can look forward to the Home Shoppers show at 8 p.m. with Chad. That also comes to your screens on Fridays at the same time. He always takes us through exclusive properties that you can find on www.privateproperty.co.za. And if it's Tuesdays and Thursdays, a warden in Pharma, Umbalino, what brings us to the farming podcast, where she's always in conversation with agricultural experts from people who help us make better commercial farming decisions. Or, of course, if you want to start something in your backyard. So make sure that you sit those alarms every Tuesdays and Thursdays at 8 p.m. to better your understanding of all things agriculture. And every Wednesdays, AC Carson takes us through the First Time Home Buys show, which he's always in conversation with people who've not only walked that First Time Home Buying journey, but have gone on to grow their property portfolios from strength to strength. Well, those are some of the great shows that you can catch every single weekdays at 8 p.m. across private properties, social media pages. Remember, make sure that you're following us across social media on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram, on YouTube, as well as on TikTok. You can follow myself on Instagram and Twitter at www.zamaat.com, okay, as we tackle all things relating to property. Now, I did say we're kicking off Women's Month. And one of the great things that we're going to be doing throughout Women's Month is that we're only going to be having women as our guests. We're really doing such a significant job in their respective careers. And this Women's Month, we're going to be outlining and highlighting just that, where we only have women as our guests who are going to be helping us make proper, certainly better, property decisions. So do stay tuned in throughout the month of August, as we only speak to women. And probably get a different insight. I find that women have a relatively different appetite for property or sometimes able to make slightly better property investment decisions than our male counterparts. So that's going to be interesting throughout the month of August. If there's a woman that you would have wanted us to have on the show, official women that you always wanted us to have on the show, you can also let us know down here below, we'd absolutely love to have them on the show. And to kickstart our Women's Month, we're joined this evening by somebody with had on the show, absolutely incredible woman in the professional field. And this is Untabisir Mahbaba, who's a chair of the Cyber Young Professionals Forum. And when looking at women in property, five things you need to know from a young property professional. We're going to be looking at some of the trends that she's picked up as an asset manager. Certain tips, if you want to get into the property sector, more often than not, people tend to think that the property sector is mostly the state agents. But of course, there's a whole host of other careers that you can look forward to in the sector. And of course, what the Cyber Young Professionals Forum is all about, how you can get involved if you are a young professional in the property sector. And Tabisir, good evening. Thank you so much for joining us. It's such a pleasure to have you on the show. Good evening, Zama. Thank you so much for having me. It's only a pleasure, Tabisir. I think one of the great things with having you on the show is that we're always able to just get such a different perspective from a young person in property. Because I think we still have the, not even the misconception, I think the reality of the property sector is that it's still predominantly an old people profession, across the board. And regardless of what the role essentially is, it's still predominantly older people and typically older white men. And it's always great to see a different demographic sort of rising up their ranks within the property space, picking up their own trends, obviously learning from what is already sort of mainstream within the sector. And before we even look at some of those trends and tips for people who want to get into property, I actually wanted to start with the Cyber Young Professionals Forum. Tell us a little bit about what the forum is about, the work that the forum does, and who can be a member of the forum. Absolutely. So the Cyber Young Professionals Forum was started in 2020, but it actually comes from university or the consolidation of university campus societies that were started back in 2017. And our role really is to shape the future leaders of the property industry in South Africa. And we're shaping them from the grassroots level at university all the way through to young professionals in the private sector, as well as with entrepreneurs. So our role really is leadership and really creating access and bridging the gap between what our young professionals and what young people in property know and what they don't know. And really just closing that gap to create a better knowledge base so they can do better in the environments that they work in. And you know, one of the great things with networks is you're able to get access to so many different kinds of people from different demographics and also just get great insights from other people. I think one of the great things that we echo quite a lot on the show, a lot of our guests who come on the show is the importance of building relationships when you're in the property space. That's property in the relationship business regardless of what you actually decide to do. So in terms of the membership, can a regular young professional who, so they've graduated already, or perhaps have their own property business, are they able to be a member of the forum and how would they go about doing so? Absolutely, we welcome anybody who's interested in property to join us. So you don't necessarily have to be somebody that currently works in property. What we are definitely trying to do is to really encourage more people to participate in the property industry, particularly younger people. So absolutely anybody can join and you access us by going to our website. So go to www.Sahbip.co.zale or info at www.saibp.co.zale and then you'd be able to kind of reach out to us if you are looking for us. That's such a great one. I think the big thing I want to highlight about what I'm trying to say is just said is that you don't necessarily have to be a young professional in property right now. So you might have an interest in it. You're certainly still able to join because I think sometimes people don't quite know where to start or even how to transition because I've seen and I went through this, right? Where I was in a completely different field for nearly a decade and wanted to pivot to real estate. And for a few years they didn't quite know how to and which communities I can already be a member of that would help that transition. So if you're certainly looking for a way that you can make that transition and still weighing your options as much as possible then that is a forum that you're able to tap into that will help you in some of your decisions. I see some of the love that we're getting down here on our Facebook page. For those of you at home who are watching us live on Facebook, Abdullah, I see you for Rana as well as Semi-Mahata saying happy Women's Month. Of course, keep showing us that love down below. We absolutely love to see it. It was pure love, Kumalo. It's always great to see another Kumalo. I can confirm we're not related. There's just kind of a lot of us around. And also showing us some love down here below. Now, one of the things then that I wanted to explore is given that we've, I mean, I think one of the things that we certainly know about the property sector during COVID is that it's seen a lot of different changes from hard lockdown, deeds officers being closed and pent up demand from not being able to have any activity during the hard lockdown. And as we were slowly opening last year, we saw quite a lot of record sales. Almost every day of last year was attesting to how their respective businesses that had record high sales, some even from when they initially started out the business. So they've never seen some of those sales numbers. Perhaps you're at home with some of the trends that you've picked up over the past 18 months and especially some that you're picking up this year. Because I think last year we're in a time of crisis. We didn't anticipate what was happening, but the reality of 2021, we already know that we're living in COVID. We're going to see the lockdown restrictions and then be them being eased up. So we're almost trying to plan the unplanable, but it's not so far. So going from level two to level four is not as foreign because we've already gone through that. What have been some of the trends that you've picked up along the past 18 months in the property sector? So I've seen quite a lot, right? But just two that I really want to touch on firstly the subtle but strong movement towards all inclusive living. And I mean, previously, everybody was interested in a live work and play environment, but I think now people are far more interested in making it happen. Now where I work, we have been kind of the leaders in that is where I work in student accommodation. I work for a company called Res Publica Student Living, which is one of the leading providers of student accommodation in the country. And we've had that for quite a long time where we have all inclusive offerings. That's water, electricity, gyms, the whole shebang. All our students have to do is just arrive. Now we're seeing that shifts really being seen in the residential space as well, where a lot of office spaces are now being converted to live work and play spaces where people don't have to worry about wifi, which is one of the biggest things that residential providers are now starting to provide. They're ensuring that there's definitely really made connections to fiber when you walk in. And that's perfect for people that are working from home because there's a really big necessity. So those are some of the biggest trends and also pricing. So one of the things that I have seen particularly with commercial properties being converted to residential properties is actually that the price point to the entry point is a lot lower than it was before. I don't know if it's because of space. I don't know if it's because they're trying to attract young professionals, but the price point is very, very, very attractive. And we're seeing people being very aggressive with that. And I think one of the great things that we've seen and you've highlighted it a lot of our previous guests have noted it is that shift from or that conversion of certain office buildings to residential and really hopping on that work, live, play component. And I think it's one of those things that are going to be very interesting to note in the next coming years because some have done it in response to COVID and of course done it in response to a lot of people working from home, a lot of businesses scaling down in terms of their space, in terms of their offices. And others were already going to be doing that because that's where internationally the industry has already been for quite a number of years. I mean, we've seen it in different markets where the work, live, play component, all inclusive living was already being done, especially if you look at big cities, your London, your New Yorks. And I think it's going to be interesting to see how the South African companies that are going in that direction are going to AB doing it, but also how it's going to play out in the next five years. I'm interested to see how it's going to be in five years time, especially those who did it in response to COVID and weren't necessarily already planning on adding that component in their books, whether they are going to stay with it. Sort of, I want to say post COVID, although many of us know that there isn't quite a post COVID world. This is something that's going to be there for a very long time. So that is really going to be something that's going to be interesting to see. Now, of course at home, we're always taking your questions and comments. Do continue showing us some love down here below. This is the Kickstart Women's Month with Untabi Sehra Mahoba, who is a chair of the CyberBeyong Professionals Forum. As I was saying earlier on the show, throughout the month of August, we're only going to have women as our guests. If there's a particular women that you want us to absolutely bring on the show, let us know down here below. We're definitely going to bring them on. But throughout the month of August, you can look forward to only women being our guests if we're not even going to have men. We've got a great lineup of incredible women that we're going to have on. And going to your comments and questions at home, on Facebook, we've got Umatashinane saying, this is such an exciting initiative. Salute Zimbabwe to happy women's month, ladies. And then we've got a great question here from Kaviso Lombo. Kaviso wants to know and to be saying, are there monthly fees? And this is when it comes to the Cyber Young Professionals Forum. There is a once-off fee that you pay during the year and it will vary. So just go on our website and it will be there. But it'll depend on whether you're an individual or you are a corporate, that sort of thing. Okay, perfect. So it's a once-off fee, go to the cyberwebsite cyberconnect.co.zare and you'll be able to find that cost if you want to join the Cyber Young Professionals Forum. Now, I think one of the things that I'm saying there, I also want us to explore is people who want to get into property. And this is from a career perspective. And I say from a career perspective, because we often look at how to get into property as a property investor. And that I would almost pay as a business perspective as opposed to a career perspective. So if somebody wants to be an asset manager like yourself or perhaps a value or a point of severe, perhaps can you shape tips on how you end up within the professional space? And I think you can sort of narrow it to your particular role. Because throughout the month, we'll also be having other women in different careers within property who share a bit about career insights within property and how people can join and certainly become those respective careers. Okay. So there are a number of different ways that you can educate yourselves to become a part of the property industry. Personally, I hold a Bachelor of Sciences and Property Studies from the University of the Bedouin Restaurant. From my understanding, UCT also offers the same course. And so there are a number of universities within South Africa that offer a qualification towards property. If you're already a professional that's working in a different space and would like to enter the space, there are also postgraduate degrees, postgraduate qualifications that you can try out and you can get at these universities. I do know that this also, this and UCT offer a lot of short term courses that you can try out, like do them for the, I think four weeks or 20 weeks and see if you do enjoy the space and you can enter that space as well. But personally, I hold that degree and it gives me access to a number of different fields. I thought of it as an analyst and now I'm an asset manager. So it really does open doors for you to be able to do whatever you want. The people that have my degree that are valuable to your point, that are developers, you can do pretty much anything. The sky is the limit once you have it. And I love that you outline the different ways of studying towards it. I'm a VC, an undergrad that's been completely different. In postgrad, I'm actually doing property development and management at VITS. And it really does offer you a different perspective, especially just given my academic background, when you want to get into property. So you're able to, if you had a very different degree and a very different sort of faculty, a different field in the event where you now want to have some property knowledge you can do, whether it's the master's program or other postgrad programs, if you want a degree component. So I know that VITS, UCT, even Tux offers a really great program when it comes to property and the postgrad components. Now, I can say that you mentioned that you started off as an analyst and then an asset manager. I think for purposes of our listeners at home, perhaps break down the difference between the two and what that would entail as a property analyst. And then now, of course, as an asset manager within the property space. So when I was an analyst, I was an analyst in the banking space and my role really was to be able to review all applications we get for people that are trying to raise money from the bank and to kind of just look at the risks and the rewards of it and really pitch it to a credit team that would then let us know whether or not we can lend money to a particular person or not. And then I'd be able to manage that account for an extended period of time. Now I'm on the other side where my role is to kind of look at value uplift for my company and yield uplift so that our shareholders get the return that they need from their investment but also to acquire new properties, to manage the property that we currently have and to just grow our portfolio. To be saying, one of the things you've just outlined and I always like asking people who are either in banking or have been in banking when it comes to this one is how as an analyst, you were able to look at people's sort of applications who wanted to raise some funds for some other property deal and of course make a case to the credit team. The question that I love asking people who are either in banking or have been in banking is perhaps some of the factors that lead to the credit team coming back and saying, no, actually we're not going to extend that line of credit to whether it's the business or the partners who've come together wanting to raise those funds. Because I think more often than not, we don't quite know what happens behind the scenes. We apply, even when you're a business and you're applying, perhaps you have started your property venture. Only really relatively bigger businesses have a better understanding of what happens behind the scenes. But for the most part, those in the very early stages and even the sort of intermediate stage still don't quite know what goes into applications being rejected or approved. Some of the things that you might do during the application process that when the credit team looks at it, it doesn't matter how good your banker might be, the credit team ends up being like, actually we can't quite extend this line of credit. That's true that certain factors that a credit team would typically pick up that would lead them to reject somebody's application. I'm actually going to touch on something that you mentioned earlier on when you started and that's relationship. You mentioned that relationships are everything in the property space. And I would say two things really matter. Knowing who your credit team is is important. Sponsors are everything. And if you have a sponsor on your credit team, you're more likely to get somebody to be in your corner and to approve your deal. But also when it comes to the people that you are working with, your development team, your management team, whoever the case may be, ensuring that you have somebody that is established, partnering with a good jockey that has experience and a proven track record in delivering is critical. Banks don't want to lend their money to people that they don't know. People don't want to lend their money to people that they don't know. I mean, you wouldn't give your money to somebody that you don't know. So generally speaking, they want to give their money to people that they know, they want to give their money to people that they trust. And in order to get that, you're going to be able, you're going to have to start off by partnering with somebody who is better equipped, better known than you for a while until you become that person that is better equipped and better known. So that's my main thing. And then the second thing is your fundamentals must make sense. It doesn't matter who you have on your team. If your fundamentals don't make sense, then there's no way it's going to happen. Your loan must be able to wash its own face. You must be able to repay the loan and you must be able to be investing in something that is viable. And in terms of saying, I think one of the big things with that, especially with people who are starting off or haven't been in it long enough and or some who've started off and perhaps have been certainly building their property venture, they're seeing all these different opportunities that are coming up and want to be able to take advantage of it. They still don't quite have a good sense of what the fundamentals are. I think that's one of the things I'm still realizing that oftentimes people think, I want to buy this property or buy this house. I want to do a conversion and the rental that I'll collect is X amount. The bond is going to be X amount. Of course, I'll be able to make the payments, but they at the core, they still don't actually have a good sense of what are the fundamentals? And this is of course going to be something that's throughout every deal that you're going to make. They're not going to suddenly change based on the nature of the deal. The figures may change, but at the core of it, the fundamentals stay the same. So when you talk about the fundamentals making sense, what are the fundamentals that you are referring to? Number of things, right? So I'll touch on a couple. You learn to value, for example. So that is the amount of money that you want to borrow against the proposed value of whatever it is that you want to build or whatever already currently exists. So generally banks aren't going to give you 100% of a loan. If it is a commercial loan, it's probably going to be somewhere along the lines of 70% or less, right? So the value of your property must be able to withstand the amount of money that you want to borrow. Leases are critical, right? Because leases are going to do what it is that you're using to pay off your loan, right? So, and that's if you're not going to build and sell immediately, which is a whole other business case on its own. You want to be able to have long-term leases that are going to be able to prove to the bank that if you want to loan for five years, you've got enough people or you've got extended periods of people living in your property or working in your property for that period of time so that you're able to pay off your debt. So those are just two very critical things that I think people need to worry about and really think about, but also your management team, very important. The person that's going to be managing your property is going to be the person that is ensuring that there is continued income coming in and is going to be ensuring that the value of the property is protected long-term. We are this evening in conversation with Tavisa Mahoba, who's the chair of the Cyber Young Professionals Forum. As we kickstart Women's Month, we're looking at things you need to know from a young property professional. And we've got a great question coming through on Facebook from Usin Pue Menu asking, what are the pros and cons in investing in either an apartment or a standalone property? We'll make it a high-level because we can have a very separate conversation about that that can last the whole 30 minutes, same. And I want you to answer this, Usin, also just bring in mind that you're also in the student accommodation space have a very intimate understanding of it because I know a lot of property investors almost want to always add student accommodation to their portfolio because of the high yields that you typically are able to enjoy in that space. So briefly, pros and cons of apartment versus a standalone property. This is for obviously investment purposes. Sure. So I'll talk from my own experience, right? I recently bought a property a couple of years ago as an investment property and it was a new development and I was really excited about it. But some of the things that I really made mistakes on which I listened to for other people now were the calculations. So when I bought my property, I thought, okay, they're giving me projections of X amount when it comes to levies and X amount when it comes to rates and taxes. And lo and behold, those numbers were completely different when it was time for me to move in. It's different if you're buying a property that is currently existing. When you're buying something that is being developed, they're gonna give you no projection so that they can pull you in. And when I bought my property, I found that my rates and taxes was almost double the amount that I had initially budgeted for. And that was the same for my levies. And what that means is that my numbers were completely off. So my yields were completely off at the end of the day. A very expensive lesson, but a good lesson than the list. So definitely look at that. Definitely look at who your developer is. Definitely ensure that you have an understanding of who your management team is and you've seen financials. If it's an existing property. So if you are going to sectional title and it is an existing property, ask for financials before you buy into the property because then you can see whether they're managing the property well or not. You can see if they are in debt or not. And you can see whether or not it's something that you want to go into. Now with standalone, I don't want to lie. I'm not the best person to ask because I don't have a standalone property. But I suppose most of the fundamentals are the same. Understand, you know, there's structure because you don't really have the prediction of a body corporate when it comes to that space. So understand the structure. Know that your property will be able to stand, get the right inspection, stand and always buy in the right areas with both types of properties. Area is everything, location, location, location. So the base of the location is depending on what you're looking for, whether it is rental income or capital depreciation, make sure that you find property in the right space. And I love that, you know, in terms of saying that oftentimes when it comes to your developments, I mean, I really, I've heard far too many people share the exact same experience that you've had that you're given projections and now especially if I even look at your housing because there's so much building, some of the developers know that the projections that they're giving you are actually lower than what is going to be the actual set amount as opposed to if it was a couple of years ago where we can argue, well, maybe they didn't know that it was going to escalate to those levels, now they know. They just, as you say, they want to get you in, they want to get that sale. And when you move and you get that first levy statement and you get a heart attack because you were budgeting for, you know, six, 700 rounds for levies. Next thing you know, you're paying 82,000 rounds for levies and that's excluding utility, you know, costs in that particular property. Before we wrap up on type of saying, any final tips for somebody who's looking to get into the property profession that you'd like to share with our viewers at home? I highly recommend anybody beginning their journey into property. I'm one of those people that absolutely believe that property is a wealth creation vehicle but it's also a wealth storage vehicle. So if you're somebody that is in a high cash flow business, consider solidifying your money in property. If you're somebody that is interested in creating generational wealth, get some knowledge, you know, the property industry is not that open but now there's lots of information that is available. Also I'm doing what I have 310 episodes on property for goodness sake. You know, there's YouTube, there's Instagram, you can find as many platforms as possible to read up on it and to start participating. I highly recommend getting into this space. It's very rewarding and it's also a really great place to just grow yourself. And that's such a great note to leave it at. And I'll be saying thank you so much for joining us. It's always such a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for having me, Zema. And that is, and I'll be saying my hope is the chair of the Cyber Young Professionals Forum. Remember, if you want to get in touch with them or perhaps interested in being a member of the forum, you can go to cyberconnect.co.z and reach out to them. I think if you have an interest in being a property professional, then that certainly is a forum with considering joining. Well, that brings an end to the Monday edition of the Private Property Podcast Kickstarting Women's Month. You're going to have a jam-packed Women's Month with incredible guests that we've got lined up. It's a pleasure to be with you this evening. I'll be back on your screens tomorrow at 7 p.m. Until then, hope you're staying safe. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.