 China hosted the Winter Olympics and simultaneously hosted COVID. Oh, because we're also trying to fit ourselves into an American context because we live in America. All the Asians really had to be on one squad. Oh, that's Andrew, the Chinese one. Tend to judge each other much more as individuals. And my East Asian friends sometimes the more. There are more Southeast Asians in the world than there are Japanese and Korean people in the world combined. Is it okay to use the terms Jungle Asian and Fancy Asian? When referring to Southeast Asians and East Asians, what do you think? He's half Filipino and half Japanese and I'm half Chinese and half Vietnamese. So we're both half Fancy Asian and half Jungle Asian. The Fancy Asians are the Chinese, the Japanese. They get to do fancy things like host Olympics. Jungle Asians host diseases. It's different. He said Jungle Asian. But how do you justify that? Well, because you guys live in the fucking jungle. What do you mean? How do I justify it? Don't live in the jungle. All right. So if I go to Vietnam, is there a jungle there? There is a jungle. There's a jungle in plenty of other countries. There's not a jungle in Korea. Welcome everybody to the hot pot boys. David and Andrew here. We got a hot debate on the internet right now and it concerns Asians. Yeah, this one's fresh off Reddit, Andrew. It's about a Southeast Asian guy who started a new job at his new job. All the Southeast Asian pals use the term Jungle Asian as a term of endearment. He did not know how to feel about it. People on Reddit were agreeing, disagreeing, feeling neutral about it. It descended into this whole East Asian versus Southeast Asian thing that Ali Wong and Bobby Lee brought up. It was crazy. And guess what? Hot pot boys, we not scared. All right, everybody. So if you're excited about this conversation and you're ready to hear us take it deep and share some perspective, then please hit that like button. Help us out with the algorithm and let's get into it. Real quick disclaimer, guys. Here's the definition of Jungle Asian. Here's the definition of fancy Asian. We cannot cover this entire expansive topic in one video. Literally, the video would be a thousand minutes long. We could probably make a thousand videos about it. However, we will do our best to give you a 101 introduction into this. And of course, answer the main burning question on Reddit. Even though we are not Southeast Asian, we're going to do our best. We did talk to a lot of Southeast Asians. We did grow up in Ken Washington. There was only Southeast Asians around. Very, very few East Asians. We were the only East Asians around. And number three, and recording the 23 of Mia Ancestry. We are slightly Southeast Asian. Blood ourselves. Not to mention, I know that we are Chinese, but China is actually kind of considered both a fancy Asian country and a jungle Asian country, depending on how South you go. Guys, I'm not making this up. China hosted the Winter Olympics and simultaneously hosted COVID. It broke Ali Wong's metaphor. We got both on banging on 10. Let's talk about the first question, David. And I know that we're not authorities on this. We're not telling anybody they should or should not say it. But do we say the word jungle Asian or fancy Asians? Do we use these terms in our daily life? I personally have never authentically called a Southeast Asian a jungle Asian. I wouldn't do that. I feel like that would be looking down on somebody, especially coming from me. It would be disrespectful. I have so many good Southeast Asian friends from the age of like five years old and onwards. They grew up 10 blocks away from me. We did not grow up in the jungle together. Yes, when I went over to their house, sometimes would their kitchen have a lot bigger leaves than leaves and herbs that were in my kitchen. Absolutely, because there may be more influence from tropical zones in their culture and in their food. However, no, I would never say that. Andrew, would you? Guys, this is a term that to me I only heard of more recently. I heard a whole bunch of other terms describing East Asians and Southeast Asians growing up, which we will get into. But this is just a new term. So I'm not going to introduce a new jokie term into my vocabulary and start springing it up on my Southeast Asian friends. That would be very weird. Now, I would say to East Asians, guys, of course, any word can be offensive, but it's really the context that you're using it in. So maybe if you have that relationship, go ahead and have fun with it. However, I would just say, don't go around calling random Southeast Asian people jungle Asian. That would be idiot. I will say this. In Seattle, when we were growing up, it was basically thought of if you were Korean, you were going to be a Preppy Asian. You were probably going to go to Abercrombie. If you were Chinese, it could go either way. It really depended on what family you were born into. And if you were Southeast Asian, Filipino or Viet, you was more riding the fabulous pinwheel, tall tee, urban Asian thing. So it was like Preppy in the middle. It could go either way with Chinese and Southeast Asian was going more with BET versus the prep look. Personally, I have spent too much time around Southeast Asian culture and friends in order to reduce it down to a jungle. So for me, I can't do it. I can't use the term. Andrew, that brings us to point number two. Basically, people have hyper-reductive, stereotypical ways of portraying it, much like the joke by Ali Wong is. And that's why we're going to get into the controversy later. But I want to explain to people, Andrew, there are actually four layers of Asians in Asia. There's Siberian Asians. That's like Mongolians and Eskimos and that whole bearing straight look. And then you've got mainland Asians, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and even there's a pretty big gradient within Chinese because it's like a really gigantic population, a mix of tribes. And then number three, you've got Thai Khadai, you know, Viet, Mong, Mian, Lao, Thai. And then, of course, you got Austronesian, Malay, Indonesian, Filipino. And then you've even got a fifth layer, Melanesian, which is pretty dark-skinned and has curly hair. So, Andrew, in places like Okinawa, Hawaii, China, Vietnam, you could even be a mix of all five layers of Asian at one time. However, most people are just one or two. Yeah, I mean, I've even seen a lot of scholars, even clump, possibly Northern Vietnamese culture and Southern Chinese culture into one style of culture. It's so like, some people consider Northern Vietnamese culture to be part of East Asian culture. I'm just saying it depends on what you're measuring it by. Also, I do want to note, one thing that does mix things up is there is a ton of Chinese blood in Southeast Asia, a great big Chinese diaspora that started because of commerce and doing business. So, obviously, you have Indonesian people who are essentially Chinese. You have Filipino people who are essentially Chinese. Does that make them a jungle Asian or a fancy Asian? Or maybe they're both, I don't know. That's why it's a funny conversation. Point number three, and we're moving on to answer the Reddit question at hand. Should Southeast Asians treat the term jungle Asian as a term of endearment in some similar ways to the way Black Americans reappropriated the term, you know, the N word? Listen, I understand why in America, amongst Asians, we use the term like White Asians and Black Asians. It's kind of a funny way to use it, but it's very, very reductive and simplifies things to a point where literally it's actually just inaccurate. Well, and people like the one, two binary, don't they? Yes, in America, that's how it is because we're also trying to fit ourselves into an American context because we live in America. So, I understand why we do this. However, it is totally inaccurate because of the White Black dynamic and the history of the N word and where it comes from, the oppression, the deep dark past, right? And the word jungle Asian comes from, like, essentially comedy and it might be a little bit offensive. However, it's not coming from the same background. So, I don't think you always want to apply things from the White Black American dynamic on Asian things when Asia has been around for a thousand of years, right? However, I will say this, Andrew, if Southeast Asians do want to take ownership over that term jungle Asian, whether or not they themselves actually grew up in a jungle-like environment or they're off cousins in it or they're not ashamed of it or they're like, hey man, that's the struggle that we came out of, man. That's why we hustle, we grind every day to get ourselves out of that hole. That's where we came from and it's more of a glorious come up than I totally could see that too. However, Andrew, I will not speak on behalf of Southeast Asians. I asked a bunch of different Southeast Asian people, Andrew, and guess what? Just like the Reddit thread, Andrew, you had a myriad of responses. Some people were against it. They were like, oh man, that's demeaning and that's gonna make people question my ability to navigate advanced global capitalism. Some people were neutral. They said, man, it matters if it comes from one of your own and it also matters your tone and it also matters if you're punching up or you're punching down and some people were like, just use it, man. It's just a word. Well, isn't it funny that how offensive it is to you kind of depends on your aspirations or what world you are trying to be in? Like let's say you're a Vietnamese or Filipino person who's trying to achieve a lot in corporate white America. You're saying you work in a private equity firm, right? Then yes, you might take that jungle Asian joke as a little bit more harsh than our friends who are like entrepreneurs or hustlers or they're running their own small businesses, right? Where they're just like, yeah, man, it's all good. Like I'm doing my own thing. I'm not trying to get the approval of these white people who also come from these tall building countries either. Right, because obviously there is that sense that more northern countries that don't have jungles, they think that people from jungle more or countries that have a higher percentage of jungle foliage that they're not good at computer things or not good at like certain things that are good at the north is good at. I mean, let me just say this right now is that if you as another Asian person are judging other Asian people in America based off this, this is stupid. It's stupid. Don't do that. Like that is wrong. I'll take a stand and say that's wrong. Aren't you thinking like a traditional old school 80, 50, 60 year old like Asian Asian? Dude, we are not 70, 80 year old people in Asia right now. And I don't even think people in Asia like I know that yes, there is like some tan skin color and some skin tone stuff going on in Asia, of course, because they have the skin whitening industry. I get it, but it's like, don't just compare it to the white black dichotomy in America. I think it's wrong. And I think it does a disservice. Wow, we can acknowledge that the light skin thing is a trend in Asia though. Andrew, that moves us on to our next big question. And I think there's another reason, Andrew, why there's 50 core of 50 Reddit threads about this zero videos about this. Like we said, we'll be talking about it, bro. Do East Asians, for the most part, generally look down on Southeast Asians? Man, I mean, I would say no, not generally. I think it has happened. I have growing up, me personally, I never thought like that. Our family never said anything bad about Southeast Asia and really any race, to be honest. However, as I grew older and I got to know a lot of Asians and I was in Asian only circles of maybe of only East Asians or particularly Koreans, I did hear some comments back in the day. I don't think as much anymore. I heard some comments that I was like, ooh, I don't know about that, guys. So it happens, but I don't think it's on a widespread scale and I don't think there's any sort of way that they're enforcing it and they're not necessarily treating people very, very different in real life. However, there are side jokes and side comments. I know when people get locked up in prison, Andrew, all the guys at least, whether they're East Asians, Siberians, Southeast Asian, Austronesian, they all on the same team. Yeah, literally. I mean, they're all on the other side. Yeah, it's either called the others or you're with the Asians. If there's enough Asians or if there's not enough Asians, you're just with the non-white or non-black or non-Hispanic. I will say this, for sure, from what I've seen, Andrew, East Asians can be kind of hierarchical though and very classist and due to the income distribution, I believe I looked at the metrics. At least East Asia is anywhere from like on an individual basis, 4X to 10X as rich or powerful as a comparative per capita Southeast Asian metric situation. I do think that that plays into it because Chinese Andrew can even be mean to other Chinese that are not as rich. So of course, if we're looking at income ranges that are more likely to on a percentage basis occur in certain groups, I could see that being perceived as like racial discrimination because it's income discrimination that is highly correlated with what country of origin you come from. But I will say this, if you're a Southeast Asian and you ever hear an East Asian person or even if you're East Asian, you hear any East Asian person say something that's racially biased against Southeast Asians, you could have a comeback and I think it's totally cool to snap back at those people and let them know and you should let them know because those are like idiotic comments. And literally, we're all Asian too. We're all getting punked here and we're all Asian and we're all connected in many ways although we're not exactly the same. So that's why. You know what it is, man? I think growing up where we did, like all the Asians really had to be on one squad and we all had jokes about each other. I remember, man, there was crazy jokes. Like I remember my Lao friends were making Khmer Rouge jokes to my Cambodian friends but we all knew we were all going to be on a squad together if something happened. You know what I mean? So it's like, it really depends on your context, right? If you're growing up in like an Asian Asian context, all the old beasts from the motherland and the hierarchies and the classism and the colorism, whatever, it might more come into play, right? But if you're in a situation like we were in, it's like, yo, guys, we got to set all this aside and we're just going to be hanging out together. Yeah, man. I do miss making those jokes. I feel like, you know, I was a lot of people's like first close Chinese friend and their family, like if they were Filipino, like, oh, that's Andrew, the Chinese one. Okay, yeah, he's coming over. You know, and it's just like, you get labeled as the Chinese one even amongst Asians because we're like one of the few Chinese. So it's like, obviously, we have a lot of background and experience in being friends with Southeast Asians and even standing out amongst our Asian friends growing up. So I don't think everybody has that experience, but I do recommend anybody out there, like if you have a good amount of Asian friends, like you should have some Southeast Asian friends mixed in there. Andrew, moving on to our next point, and I know you got a lot to say about this, is being a quote unquote fancy Asian overrated? Yes, it is. It can be, man. All right. I know that fancy has a positive connotation. Oh, I'm a fancy Asian. First of all, I don't think East Asians are dying to use that term all the time. And if someone did say it seriously, I'd be like, yo, you're kind of corny for that, bro. But anyways, so I think that there's a lot of other things that come along with being a fancy Asian, right? East Asian, like they're ought to kind of be dark. There's a high suicide rate. I think that growing up as a East Asian, there are a lot of other pressures. Sure, oftentimes, stereotypically, we would achieve very high academically, but we would have a very unfun childhood. I saw my Vietnam Filipino friends growing up they just had more fun. They were more free. They were learning like street smarts. They were having like real life experiences. I was more cooped up. And to be honest, man, I think at a time, I just wanted to be more Southeast Asians. And I didn't really, I'll be honest at a time, I felt like I wanted to be more Southeast Asian. I more identified with that way of life or that way of thinking at least, you know, because we're all growing up within 10 blocks or half a mile of each other. So to be honest, no one's really growing up in the jungle and no one's growing up in the city in our case. So we're all growing up in the boring ass suburbs, trying to develop our identities. Obviously coming from these motherland places that, you know, color it, but to what extent I think it's family to family, person to person, how much they want to take on. I noticed my Southeast Asian friends tend to judge each other much more as individuals. And my East Asian friends, sometimes they're more hierarchical based on what tribe you came from. Are you a city person or are you a known from the village or whatever? And my last point in this is like, our Southeast Asian friends were the first ones to stress like, yo man, we're all Asian. Like, like, we got to team up. And I'm not saying like, we didn't incorporate other people. There was actually other races of people that were incorporated in that group. But they were very, that Southeast Asian group in Kent actually has a very strong identity where it's like anybody who wants to be part of that group has to be down and buy into the culture. And I think that that was the first time I experienced that. So obviously that showed me a sense of ride or die pride for being Asian that I didn't even see amongst East Asians until maybe the way later in my life. Yeah, I think that the Southeast Asian experience, sans maybe Filipino and Thai who didn't come over as refugees, but I think they have their own struggles as well, is really defined by this refugee experience, escaping civil wars, even in Southeast Asia, coming over, building a new life for themselves, not getting too hung up on the semantics and the details of life, but just staying together, hustling and coming up out of that traumatic experience. Whereas the East Asian situation, like I said, there's a myriad of variants, but you could come over as almost an indentured servitude, but you could come over very rich and very established, even from your family in Asia, either owning import, export businesses in Asia or coming over as an educated professional, and you're more almost trying to appease white standards to live a more posh lifestyle. I think that those are the two easy ways to simplify it. Of course, everybody is on a spectrum potentially in between. Long story short, Andrew, if East Asians, statistically on average, come from a more privileged, whether it's economic or educational perspective and they're popping in media now, do they owe it more to Southeast Asians to give them some shine too? Because that's what I know to standard. There was a couple kind of like, I don't want to say ABG, but like ABG type girls on YouTube saying like, hey, my look needs to get some love too. I got fuller lips, I got tanner skin, I got bigger eyes, still look Asian, but they're just bigger. Can I get some love too? Or is it all about Michelle Yeoh and Constance Wu? I'm not going to lie, man. If it was up to me and I could press a button, hell yeah, I would, but it's not up to me. But actually, I will say this, I think East Asians who are in media or have like any sort of platform, I think that they should give Southeast Asians more shine. And I think some do, but some don't. And I think that as an Asian group that gets lumped together that shares a lot of similarities, albeit not the same exact people, but a lot of similarities, we can look out for each other more. And I do think that East Asians could do maybe a better job, but again, I do think East Asians also run a lot of the big organizations that eventually will get around to telling Southeast Asian stories. So I think it's a process, but I will remind always my East Asian friends, like yo, like Southeast Asian, there are more Southeast Asians in the world than there are Japanese and Korean people in the world, combined, FYI. So while, although Korean and Japanese has a certain branding, you know, across the world. The elite branding. I would say the elite branding. By the numbers, there's way more Southeast Asians. So, of course, Southeast Asian is- Shout out to East Asian from Blackpink, who I think is like Chinese Thai, but learned Korean and is a big rapper. I think for me, especially in an American context, there's a ton that we can learn from each other. I mean, I think not just on a food level, but like living freely and just having different philosophies. I mean, it's not that everybody gotta live each other's life or wanna be each other or just even switch places, but you know, you can switch places for like an hour or like a week to have more empathy for each other and see what each other brings to the table. Cause of course all cultures are different. I don't think just because like Korea and Japan are the most developed and then China is a number two more developed, I guess like second tier developed. It's like, oh yeah, they won. They got all the advanced culture. They got all the, you know, K-Pops and the J-Pops and the Animes. I think there's stuff to learn all across the spectrum. And we could all learn to share. I know that I learned to be more street smart and stand up for myself and be, I guess more like masculine or more, you know, stand up for myself from my Southeast Asian friends and the situations that they were coming from. Or hopefully they learned from me too. Like, and not just to see, you know, to be into the more Oriental aspects, I guess, like, you know, I think they could just be in exchange both ways. Yo, Andrew, last but not least, this video could go on for a thousand minutes. I'm sure we could make a thousand videos about it. I'm pretty sure I read a thousand articles in preparation for this. I didn't even get to say like one tenth of what I ended up looking up. But listen guys- I could talk about this for hours. Listen guys, we're all Asian. We're all Mongoloid people. We all got to show love to each other because, you know, the truth is, Andrew, from the outside groups, they're all just perceiving us as one. What are some alternatives to jungle Asian and fancy Asian that still acknowledge the differences but are just like better or funnier to use? Yes, we came up with a bunch of alternative terms, guys. So you don't have to use jungle and fancy Asian if you don't want to. I'm just going to go down the list real quick. Cold Asians versus warm Asians. And we're not just talking about temperature. We're talking about maybe personality and like open-mindedness as well. Cherry blossom Asians versus jackfruit Asians. I like them both. They both look cool to me. I like jackfruits. They're tasty. Conceded Asians versus humble Asians. I'm not going to lie. A lot of my Southeast Asian friends always said that East Asians were conceded. I hung out with a lot of both. And yeah, there's some truth to it. I mean, they got big egos. Cooked veggie Asians versus raw veggie Asians. Both good. Sometimes you need some warmth. Sometimes you need some freshness. Strive for white Asians or ride or die Asians. Yes, I do think that some people come from a more Klan-ish refugee experience where they got to ride or die for each other because they got such a harsh situation from their homeland civil wars. And like we said, East Asians, you know, the plan might be to more to appease certain gatekeepers to live a more Piyosh lifestyle and it is what it is. I can't control it. I can't go for it. I think there's pros and cons to each way. Passivist Asians versus passionate Asians. Oh man, the passivist Asian thing kills me, especially for Chinese who are known as being particularly passivist when it comes to in-person, you know, violence and confrontation. We might just get picked on more. Passionate Asians, Andrew. It's not just passionate in terms of you attack me. I'm passionately attacking back, but it could just be like passionate in the way you live your life or even date. Get bullied Asians versus get gully Asians. Oh man. Okay, then we got soy sauce Asian versus fish sauce Asian. I like them both. Everybody uses soy sauce, by the way. Everybody uses fish sauce. I know in Japan it's more like bonito. Both fermented. Yeah, fermented soybeans and fermented fish. Just used differently. Nine, heavy coat Asians versus tank top Asians. Right, it gets hot and humid in Southeast Asia. Here we got, this is a funny one. It's a good rhyme. Don't get mad at us. Compute Asians versus belute Asians. Oh, I like them both, man. I like computers and I like belute. Math Asians versus swag Asians. This is one I definitely heard growing up. Like I said, that's the Freddie W versus Brian Puss post thing. Swagger Pino, Illipino, Lytnamese, Nerdy Chinese. Obviously Koreans, they seem like a better balanced version of Chinese. I don't know. It is what it is. School Asians versus cool Asians. Corny Asians versus horny Asians. Oh, man. I definitely think East Asians became less corny though. 20 years ago, man, it was all nerdy. Yeah, I think the East Asians got more horny lately. Creppy Asians versus urban Asians. You know, you got Rooji over here and then you got the Vera Wings and you know. Yeah, I think the lines are blurred in 2022, but definitely 15, 20 years ago that was very true. We got Plastic Surgery Asian versus Plastic Stool Asian. Oh, no. I always thought that was a dope picture of Obama eating Bun Cha Hanoi in Hanoi on a plastic stool using chopsticks, good form. Battle of the Greens. Amacha Asians versus Pandan Asians. Andra, that was Battle of the Green. I got Battle of the Purple. Taro Asians versus Ube Asians. Oh, you know what I'm rolling with? Ube all day. The Ube Purple Glow is such a vibrant version of Purple. And last but not least, Andra, perhaps the best way to sum it up that I like much more than Jungle Asian versus Fancy Asian, Metropolis Asians versus Paradise Asians. All right, let us know in the comments down below which one of those alternative terms you like the most. Also, let us know what you think about this whole discussion of using Jungle Asian and Fancy Asian. Once again, here's a reminder, everybody, any word can be offensive, given a certain context, intention, and tone. However, things can also just be a bunch of jokes too. So I just think, you guys, let us know in the comments down below, please hit that like button. Tell us what you thought about this conversation. It could continue. Let us know if you wanted us to touch on this topic again. Oh, we got one. I'll go on, make another hundred videos about this if you guys want to see it. Let me know if you guys want us to go like an hour straight streaming about this. All right, thank you everybody for watching. And until next time, we are the Hop Hop Boys. We are out. Peace.