 Good evening and welcome. I'm Diane Meyerhoek host for tonight's candidate forum for the Democratic primary for Chittenden County probate judge Tonight show is being aired live on channel 17 and streamed live on the channel 17 website. We welcome your comments and questions Please call us at 8 6 2 3 9 6 6 Candidates joining me tonight are Gregory Greg Glennon the incumbent and William Bill Norfolk. Thank you both so much for joining us Thank you. Thank you for having us the ground rules for tonight's forum The candidates will make opening statements of up to two minutes each and they will answer prepared questions also for two minutes with a Possible one minute rebuttal for opening statements. We're going to start with Greg and then followed by Bill Tell us why you're running what qualifies you for the physician and your priorities for the four-year term. Okay? Well, thank you Diane. Thank you everyone at channel 17 for hosting this forum My name is Gregory J. Glennon. I have been the probate judge for Chittenden County since July of 2016 exactly almost exactly two years now when I when I sought this position for the first time in 2016 I really You know thought long and hard about whether or not This was a job for me and whether or not this was a job I could make a difference in and make an impact I I got involved in public service years ago because I wanted to help people and make a difference and When I thought about it when I thought about my skill set and my experience and You know how I look at life and career I thought this this job of probate judge Really is almost a perfect fit for what I want to achieve and what I want to do not only professionally but in terms of how I can make an impact in the community as the person I am and What I mean by that is Just to give you a practical example at the probate court We deal with people in very sensitive family-oriented situations We deal with families That are mourning the loss of a loved one That have to come to the court to open an estate We deal with families going through Very difficult situations with elderly parents through guardianship We see vulnerable adults who have slipped into Alzheimer's dementia suffered a traumatic brain injury or have gone through a stroke these these are the sorts of situations that often present themselves for an adult guardianship case and of course we see kids and families in crisis We see kids and families going through such chaos and trauma through termination of parental rights cases I'm gonna stop you there. Sorry Sorry, we'll go back over. That's okay. Bill more to come. Yes. Okay. Thank you folks again. Thank you for having us here Like so many other people We all have a pleasure to know my life has been Dedicated in doing what I'm able to do to improve our neighborhoods or communities and of course our government I live in Winooski. It's where I was born and my wife Carrie and I live in Winooski and she's a nurse practitioner Love Winooski, so I've been there forever now in the past years. I've been on numerous boards and committees councils, I've served four terms is Mayor Winooski. I was 14 when I was elected mayor It was actually from 91 to 99 people asked me if that was my dad, but no it wasn't my dad. It was me I enjoyed immensely But my experience not just the 20 years as a trial attorney, but my experience as mayor and Being a trial attorney is that we're helping people We're like the guide with the lantern leading people through a labyrinth when you're going to city hall and you have a problem It's a labyrinth. What's different between design reviews owning or planning when you go to court? It's a labyrinth in the probate court particularly As well as any court most people who are in court are there because they have a problem and in probate court It's it deals with extremely Vulnerable people sensitive Every one of us if we have a position authority we derive that authority from the people if you go somewhere You should not feel intimidated should not be scared We can assist we can help and almost as importantly before you even do that make them feel comfortable Give them the information they need to help them through the maze That's how I've conducted my professional service. It's why I've had an active trial practice in Winooski It's what I would bring to the probate court now what I also would distinguish My canisees Gregory's a fine gentleman. I've met him several times during these debates Gregory was appointed to the position and there were four other candidates who were appointed position all You can also feel free to Some of the other answers if you want to go back It's a little bell here. Well, I just have a buzzer, but it was so annoying that we had to get rid of it So I'm just gonna interrupt you So let's um, let's go to the prepared questions You both actually mentioned issues of guardianship specifically and I think that's one. I'd certainly like to hear more about Talking about the challenging aspects of handling these kind of cases if adults and children are different if it's very similar in terms of how You handle that Because it seems to be such an important part of the work that that a probate judge does So we're gonna start with Bill this time. Okay the Guardianship specifically probate court guardianships many times come into play Somebody may have a parent. It's almost a role reversal when you're appointed guardian And quite often if it's a child one of the children, it's the child becomes the parent There are many sensitive areas in our life, which we're all Coming up to where we may become infirm. We may become at a Physiological or an emotional or an intellectual state where we may need assistance part of that of course and one of the poor probate courts role is that assistance is not just well-meaning, but is is is a monitored to make sure that you know, it's a vulnerable adults who get the calls and and Send their money to bail out a nephew that they get the prank calls They get the they buy the medical alerts and they buy the extended warranties and There's a lot of reasons it may get to our lives where somebody should be watching your finances That you've worked your entire life for that you've saved for so It's a very you're dealing with vulnerable people You must be extremely empathetic because we're all going there We're all going there. We will all be there and the probate court monitors guardianship It keeps track. You do an annual counting does a background. I Was a guardian. I've been an actual guardian many times when I was in law school It assists the probate court because they wanted somebody who could do that for somebody But who at that time necessarily could not afford a lawyer. So I've been involved in not hundreds but thousands of juvenile cases and Hundreds of cases that would lead up to and including adoption They're very emotional. You always remember that always remember the time that that person When they come in when they meet you what they're going through try to be again Compassionate empathetic That's been what I've always tried for my my entire professional and frankly my personal life Great. Thank you much. Great. Tell us about sure. So sure. So this Question ties into what I was about to say as I was finishing up finishing up my opening remarks This caseload all the cases at probate but guardianships probably in a very unique way Require the probate judge to look out for the most vulnerable among us Three key things I want to share with people in my two years as probate judge I've seen Financial minor guardianships big issues big concerns around the handling of a child's money until a child turns 18 Money that's either inherited or received in an injury settlement for example Making sure that the fiduciary is holding those funds are held to account and that if funds go missing there's accountability Custodial guardianships for children Probably the most important thing I do is probate judge is the cases involving child custody and when it comes to child custody cases minor guardianships if I have any questions or any concerns about the safety of a child in a home that child may be in or Suggested to go into in a guardianship setting is to make sure I involve DCF I don't have as probate judge Resources at my disposal to conduct a third-party review of these Residential settings, so I've made it a point to dot the eyes cross the T's and put safety of kids first That is the most important thing I can do in my job as probate judge and believe me I go to bed at night worrying about these cases and worrying about these kids for adult guardianships as as the judge of the probate court two key pieces Someone as a guardian of an adult a vulnerable adult is handling someone else's money Okay, I'm gonna stop you there. Okay, but you'll have you'll have a chance. I promise Maybe I should just give you out guys three minutes each. Maybe we'll have to change this Okay, um, let's talk about lawyers Okay, so um one of the things I think both of you actually mentioned was the the really large enormous caseload That the probate court probate court has open cases How would you manage or how do you manage that that number and we are gonna start with Greg? Okay, so as probate judge I See about two thousand new filings each year in addition to that we see about at least a thousand Filings on cases that stay under court supervision. Those are called Our supervision cases typically minor and adult guardianships the court has to supervise those cases, so We're not only a court, but we're like a monitoring agency And there's just a flood of filings. It's it's the bureaucratic equivalent I tell people of standing in front of a fire hose so Every single day I work hand-in-hand With the staff at our registrar's office. I have taken on administrative duties. I mean We have a tremendous staff but they're they're overworked and They need help and we all work together as a team. We have two tremendous Registrar's of probate. We have a tremendous docket clerk these ladies Deb Brinnell Carmen Cody Nancy Bean. These are just delightful people Tremendous state employees tremendous public servants and We work together as a team to process these cases and if you talk to anybody who interacts with the court Either as a member of the public or as a member of the bar. We turn case filings around extremely quickly I've had so many people tell me that the Chittin and probate court is the most efficiently run court in the state of Vermont Believe me, I take that as a real compliment If we can get people what they need from the probate court quickly then we're doing the job We need to be doing because people For example, if you're probating the estate of a loved one, you don't want to wait around for court papers You want to get the estate administered? You want to close that chapter of the grieving process and you want to move on if you need to get a child enrolled in school? Because you need guardianship papers. You can't wait around the school district is not going to say well I'm glad you're in court. They're going to want to see the court order So we get people the credentials they need from the court to do the business They need to do at the banks at the school districts at the doctors offices to get these different areas of probate cases You know Managed Through the work the guardians or the court appointed fiduciaries in the estates have to do in the community For these for these different areas of cases. Good Bill. We're talking about managing the caseload at probate court. I Agree with everything Gregory said. I also would concur in my many years of experience in working with the probate court that they have a excellent staff I Didn't know some of these folks for 20 years and They're one of the better the staff is one of the better You can usually get them on the phone. They have a quicker answer and again It's less of a maze for the probate court because it's just a probate court You aren't going to call a superior court with with several different divisions there's probably 1500 to 2000 new cases a year probably a thousand that need administering on an ongoing basis Guardianships that don't terminate Testamentary trust and such that's roughly about 50 Cases a week on a work week that needs your attention. That's probably 10 a day That's manageable if you willing to work hard and frankly it'd be less work than I'm doing now It's not uncommon for me to deal with 10 at least 10 matters a day so the The answer that is Anybody of course and I'm sure Gregory works very hard Anyone in that position needs to be prepared to roll their sleeves up get the work done Because you're in a position as as was noted and I fully agree people don't want to wait for a Temporary guardianship when mom just went in a nursing home or dad has an issue or there's just one parent so Expediency is extremely important probably more so than any other court Cropate court cases aren't long drawn out lawsuits Where you have time to respond and you've got to be quick you've got to be quick You've got to be very responsive and I think that for all my extensive Experience with the probate court is the staff has done that for all these years. I've been very pleased and it's always been It's never been not a pleasure for me to work with the probate court staff. Okay. Thank you Let's talk about endorsements Do you consider it proper and ethical to ask for endorsements from the Chittin County Bar Association members out and or the association itself? Greg well, the short answer is under the ethical rules that govern campaigns for judicial officers a Candidate for judicial office in the state of Vermont cannot ask for publicly stated support so The answer to that question is no there is a Something called a campaign committee for judges that can conduct campaign activities on behalf of the judicial candidate that can Gather endorsements solicit solicit contributions that kind of thing, but the judge is not allowed to Engage in those activities personally or the candidate for judge for that matter as well, so There's this administrative order of the Vermont Supreme Court that really outlines how all this works and the Ethical obligations of a judge are very very stringent and they should be so personally soliciting supportive Anyone by a judicial candidate is prohibited. Okay. Thank you. Um bill. Oh, yes, I think it's Inappropriate and I actually think it's unethical. You're allowed. I don't have a campaign committee I've self-funded my campaign because I just think it's inappropriate To have somebody in my campaign committee and when you're running for a judge all your friends are lawyers So you get another lawyer friend of yours Bracing somebody. Hey, you got to give Norfolk didn't do that. I will not do that I don't think it's appropriate to ask people or have fundraisers for running for a judge Call me Victorian, but I don't think that's appropriate. I haven't done that. I won't do that The I think it's absolutely improper to look for or have a member of your committee call people Particularly if someone's been there, it's just had a hearing they have cases in front of you Mr. Glenn and numerous people on his committee lists have active Ongoing probate cases. What are they going to say when they get a call saying how am I doing or how is Gregory doing? What are they going to do or would you like to donate? I like to respond to that. How can you reconcile that? That's that's inappropriate So it's inappropriate is something I haven't done something I wouldn't do and certainly And I you know, I don't know if Gregory did that. I don't think he did it maliciously. I think he's a gentleman I think he may have been naive But well, that's my opinion on the matter. Well, that's a really outrageous statement for an attorney to make against a sitting judge Do you like three names and three lawyers? It's outrageous and I have to say that the Vermont Supreme Court has said It's totally fine and totally proper for a campaign committee to solicit contributions So what bill is basically saying is that the Vermont Supreme Court is wrong if not unethical I think it's outrageous that a member of the bar would come on a public program That's televised and impugned an order of the Vermont Supreme Court and a judicial officer Who's following to the letter that administrative order? I think it's disgraceful and I'm gonna make sure that the office of bar counsel knows this show that mr. Norfolk went on here tonight Are you want to respond to yes? Did you are you going to tell Harley-Brown you didn't call him for support are you gonna tell Brian here you didn't call him for Support after they appeared in your court. That is absolutely untrue Well, it's an asset and they find out and the the probate judge the probate judge is allowed to form a campaign committee It says it right in the ethical rule. It also says the probate judge if Anyone at a certain point in time makes a contribution to that campaign committee The probate judge would have an obligation to make a disclosure on the record. I have not asked for a dime from anybody I have not asked for publicly stated support from anybody the campaign committee that has formed has followed the ethical rules To the letter I think it's disgraceful that a member of the bar would attack a sitting judge and Would take an administrative order of the Supreme Court and say that that order of the Vermont Supreme Court is wrong and unethical and it's it's really it's really unfortunate and It's it's it's probably unprofessional conduct by mr. Norfolk. Well, and I was yes, and Certainly a Supreme Court order administrative order 10 is legal It's our Supreme Court. I happen to disagree with it and I was talking about specific Circumstances were mr. Glennon called specific for you to reference individual attorneys an individual case Absolutely outrageous. Well, I think we'll cut this off here. You all can have a larger discussion about this Okay, certainly hadn't expected to go quite that way. No, no, so let's let's move on and actually this the next question that I had teed up May be very appropriate based on what's just happened And how do you do you support using mediation as a way to resolve disputes outside of the courtroom? And looks like Greg you're gonna go first Yes In practice there aren't that many cases where I've made a mediation order. There is a rule of probate procedure It's a fairly new rule and it says the probate judge can direct parties to mediation in certain inappropriate settings The reality is in probate court We don't have that many hotly contested disputed cases that give rise to a need for the judge to say Why don't you try and go mediate outside of court? That's not the nature of the cases we typically see a few times in minor in minor custodial guardianships Where there's just been repetitive court filings and inability of parties To sort of find a way forward I have Issued a mediation order the problem with that is there's no funding for that order and a lot of the people We see don't have the resources to pay for a private mediator And there's no there's no funding for the court administrator's office to pay a neutral mediator to come in and facilitate the mediation So it's really it's not the role doesn't work all that well Practically speaking, but it's there and there are certain cases where I have used it And if it's appropriate certainly will direct parties to mediation Bill mediation. Yes. I've used media mediation often. It's It might not be directly pertinent to probate court cases if you're looking and though it may be I absolutely support the use of mediation as a to hash things out to save the court time more importantly to save the people money and They might not want to ventilate a certain issue mediator is a neutral third party But again with probate court work generally, there's not mediation if you need a guardian There are of course assigned professionals who do the interview and make sure that it's appropriate that the person needs a guardian And certainly for adoption It's way past the mediation stage when you wish to adopt but if appropriate I in fact Family court encourages sometimes orders that mediation occur prior to filing a dispute before the court So I support mediation and we're appropriate would strongly encourage it. Okay. Thank you both Tell us the most recent professional education you have pursued I assume somewhat related to this work. I'm and bill you will go first. Okay. Thank you the ongoing practice of laws probably named that just for that it's a practice you learn a little something every day the most recent professional I Well many years ago I taught constitutional law for four years at the Brownton College Follows been interested in laws why I became an attorney Most recently I did a 20 hours of continuing legal education over a three-day seminar as in regards to Many of the matters that I it's actually a requirement and just finished at the end of June So that was my last continuing education and We keep up on things Greg continue education. Sure. So I've attended the Vermont judicial college each of the last two years That's an intensive three-day Gathering at a conference center where all the state's judges of the four divisions of the Superior Court gather go through professional development exercises presentations the probate judges association of all the probate judges For each of the counties in Vermont also had a gathering last November Which was a very useful and productive exercise, which was more probate focused and when we're at judicial college It's also nice because we break out into subgroups and can not just gain professional development opportunities With the with the other judges from the other divisions, but probate specific presentations and I had one tremendous See Presentation from a retired judge named Walter Morris that we all attended as probate judges that really stuck with me How to interact with prosa litigants about 90% of the people we see in probate court don't have a lawyer That's what a prosa litigant is and that that presentation by Judge Morris was just tremendous I remember telling him after the every spoke to us that was probably the most useful professional development exercise I've ever ever engaged in it was really something I took away from the most recent Judicial college this past June. So the the court administrator's office is very good about providing professional development opportunities to judges and the probate judges association is a very cohesive network and we also Keep up to speed on professional development And what's also good about the probate judges association statewide is we share information about you know developments in cases that get decided and share information to understand You know complex issues, so it's it's ongoing among the probate judges and more generally through the court administrator's office Thank you. We are just about at the end of our time. I promised it would go fast and it did so I'm gonna have you both do your your closing statements and For about two minutes, and then we'll wrap up and let folks know about voting So Greg you are up first. Sure. All right. Well, my name is Gregory J. Glennon I'm the incumbent probate judge for Chittenden County. I've been serving as probate judge for the last two years I live in Burlington with my wife Hannah Dunovan who's a Reddischer nurse and our two kids Neve who's just turned 10 my daughter and my son James or JP who's eight our kids are attending the Burlington Public Schools We love this city. We love this community and it's the honor of my lifetime to serve Chittenden County Chittenden County As probate judge the probate court touches the lives of a lot of people in very sensitive circumstances Each and every day for the last two years I've earnestly tried to treat everybody who walks through the doors of the probate court with dignity Respect and fairness for me. This is the most important obligation of the position of probate judge On August 14th, I'm asking for your vote in the Democratic primary So that I may continue to serve as your probate judge for a new four-year term I pledge to you that I will continue each and every day to make it my first obligation To look out and be a voice for those who are the most vulnerable Among us in our community as your probate judge I thank you for your consideration and I want to say a special thank you Since I have this opportunity and I've already mentioned them to the registrar's office staff at the probate court it's just such an honor to work with those ladies and They're on the front lines of providing real human services to people in need and to stand shoulder to shoulder with them these past two years has been just such a privilege and I I love serving as probate judge and I'm working as hard as I can to earn a new term and to show people How important this job is to the community and how seriously I take it? I want to thank Diane again for hosting this forum and Again, I I'm respectfully asking for your vote on August 14th in the Democratic primary Thank you bill closing statement. Okay. Thank you again. I'm bill Norful I'm running for the position of probate judge for Gregory, and I both Gregory and I this is our first election for the position I come at the position through merit I Through the decision of the voters on August 14th. I've spent my entire life Dedicated to again as I said earlier and it'll sound like my opening speech, but my life has been dedicated to helping Where we grow up? My brother rest his soul once said that you know our life is just footprints in the sand So all the more that you know that wash away so all the more reason to leave good footprints So in carrying that ideology, I want to leave good footprints. I've Again, I've dedicated years of public service In helping our neighborhoods helping our communities helping our government years of commission being on committees and commissions And councils and again as mayor Always made people always will strive and would do this as the judge of the probate court when you walk in the courtroom It's it's your house. Every one of us here derives our authority our responsibility From the people and I've never I've all spent a student of history a student of democracy I've know of no better system and I would appreciate allowing me to continue that service by voting for me as the candidate for August 14th and the primary so again, I thank you Diane for the time. I thank you anybody who's watching and Thank you all very much great And I want to remind everyone that you can also vote now because my guests always tell me I always say vote on primary day early voting has started early voting Go to your town hall your municipal hall city hall. You can vote right now up through I believe the 14th Tuesday is Tuesday the 14th is primary day if you prefer to go to the polls Which is always fun, right? Everyone's going to the polls if you're able to get off of work and then show up that day Or vote after work for work. We would encourage you to do that And I want to thank both Bill and Greg for joining me tonight and stay tuned for more Primary day coverage here on channel 17. Thank you and good night. Thank you Diane. Thank you all Thank you