 Think people are gonna look back at this whether it's two months three months six months a year I don't know ten years, and they're gonna be like man that that one month quarantine that three months quarantine I don't know was like the time that almost the universe gave me to focus on the things that are most important in my life Hey mark, what's up guys? How are you? Ah Every day is a new day so Crazy times yeah mark I'm I'm excited about this because I had been watching some of your interviews and obviously Humans 2.0 has taken on a new meaning hasn't it? Yeah Yeah, absolutely, and I'm I've been following you guys for like the last three years like every Every one of my guests that I have on and I searched them up on the podcast app Your interviews always come up. I'm like all right I'm gonna watch that one because these guys actually know what they're doing So yeah, but thank you guys for having me here and Amidst this this very interesting time where we're all just sort of trying to figure it out as we go day by day Like you said so yeah, we were you know honestly Oscillating between do we keep podcasting do we pause you know, how can we do our part? What what goes on and I think as we were saying earlier I don't know if you caught that but there has to be some level of normalcy Before the panic hits so we're gonna try to have a fun show here But I know it's sort of hanging over everyone's heads. How's Boston right now? It's Interesting I don't really I don't know how to respond. I mean I think you can't you can't be in a gathering more than 10 people Yeah Only supermarkets Pharmacies are open for the most part Do you have toilet paper? That's the question that everyone wants to know I got toilet paper man. Okay. I got water I got some food I'm happy do a well, but it's okay We had some outbreaks here because there was a conference that ran and like 50 or like a hundred people got it so It's been interesting, but our our government I think has been on good terms being proactive and trying to get out of this in Massachusetts And have you noticed sort of the same thing that we're seeing all over that young people are far less concerned and going out and socializing? dude, I mean I Mean I've definitely seen those Twitter videos of people like at the beach like in Florida. Oh my god Yeah, that's Johnny's family That's like what's a show before the movie Well, they show like in the first scene You know, perhaps we'll save this for the show, but well, we're recording so okay well, you know, you know, I was 20 years old at one time as well and You know, I lived in North Carolina and there was a time It was Hurricane Fran came through and just ripped the place apart And so we were all warned and as a 22 year old 23 year old I went to the store and bought two frozen pizzas and two cases of beer and I was like, I'm good I'm stocked up. So the hurricane comes I get hammered drink one case had one left I woke up the next morning the powers out and I and in the tree had fallen into my house And how are you supposed to cook a frozen pizza? Well Well, you build a fire They honor in tin foil, but you know, I mean that was my sense of planning and Prepping at that age, you know, and my other point in this was they wanted everyone to stay home because so much damage had come through but the bars were open and as somebody who didn't have any food and I wanted to be around people and The case of beer left So my rationale was well the bars are open So how bad can it be and if the bars are open? Well, then that's fine for me to be there now Come to this. I know that rationale is the same thing that is compelling these young folks to go out but there's another mechanism that is that is a play here that I've been speaking about on Twitter, which is It is that same mechanism in all young people to For a young man to go off in a foreign land with a rifle To fight for a cause that he is not very versed in or have as no what knows very well for that glory and the risk and everything that comes of all and it is those It is that mechanism that has built this country and has built a lot of societies and That is the the good and the bad of it and it is that recklessness carelessness risk that that comes with that That compels these young people to be going out to Miami and throwing caution to the wind So it's not that I'm condoning it, but I certainly understand it. Yeah I mean, I think I think a big part of it is I was having a Conversation with a friend of mine and she was like, yeah, I'm gonna head up to Florida this weekend and I was like Okay, and I think a big part of it is just I mean now I think everyone knows but a big part of it is people don't know that This affects everyone and like you could be a carrier. You could get infected. You cannot show symptoms And so there was like this false narrative in my generation I guess I was like, oh if you're not 70 don't worry about it. Just do whatever you want But now we're kind of understanding that you know It's very much sort of a season and like we have to sort of hunker down and hibernate wall This kind of blows over. Yeah, I think a big part of it is The constant railing on the media and experts and people in their own bubble We don't know who to trust so even when we are getting information now We're very skeptical everyone is very skeptical and of course We're seeing the information trickle out in ways that now we're seeing our leaders react in very stark ways That makes it clear to everyone. Okay. This is a real problem, but outside of that I mean we were planning our wedding and even Amy and I joked we're like, oh, we're gonna go to Italy regardless and That's completely foolish to think that way now, but because of the lack of information we had we heard the same thing Oh, it packs people who are older as long as you quarantine and isolate yourself so my I have a buddy who was in Egypt and So They decided, you know what let's Get back to America and they found themselves stuck America's not letting you back in and then They had to scramble to see what countries would allow them to get in so they finally arrived in Bangkok and That's where they are. That's where that was the one place that they could get in that they were like, okay Well, that sounds good enough So that's like the worst-case scenario. I feel like somewhere else overseas We're on the flip side going to see an epidemic of social anxiety when this all subsides I Feel like we're already starting to get nervous and leery around each other. Yeah, I've been to the grocery store I've seen people cough next to me and I've shot dirty looks. I know we're all on edge around getting close to people As someone who talks a lot about social anxiety who has overcome it themselves What are your thoughts now entering this new phase where social distancing is the norm for the foreseeable future? Man, it's it's so weird and you know, of course I didn't I didn't time the launch of my book this Saturday where all this stuff was kind of happening I mean, I talk about it in my book. It's like, yeah, you should not socially isolate yourself You should not stay inside all day But now it's like wait that everyone is telling me to I've got to and so honestly, you know The way that I kind of view it is for sure. I think social anxiety the point of it is Communicating with other people the point of it is kind of expressing your authentic self, but also You know social anxiety if you look at it, I don't think it's just how you behave In front of other people. There's a clinical psychologist Dr. Alan Hendrickson from Boston University She defines social anxiety as a perceived deficiency when it comes to your social skills Your physical appearance how other people perceive you your entire character That makes it seem in your head that you have to Compensate you have to make up for something because if you don't then people are gonna make fun of you and judge you and mock You and so I think people kind of understand that side to social anxiety But you know the the flip side the darker side of social anxiety that I think relates to this whether You are socializing or not, but it's the fact that You know for me like I remember when I was going through this as a kid I remember almost like every night I would think back to my head and I would just replay all the social interactions all the conversations I had and I would just regret so much and be like man I I wish I could have like actually been myself I wish I could have actually spoken up or I wish I didn't say that thing that I was super afraid to that just sort of came out and you know because of that I mean I remember I would overthink for like four hours before going to sleep which You know not falling asleep Impact so many other areas of your health your biochemistry sets you up to do the same exact thing the next day And so yeah, man It's a really interesting conversation that I have especially around quarantine time But I think that there are definitely things that people can do Honestly outside of the whole social sphere that can help them be you know less socially anxious less Extremely shy if they kind of have that problem, you know around their life And it's kind of impacting many different areas of their lives, but it's an interesting conversation I didn't think I would answer this question for sure Yeah, I think you know, we're all Isolating ourselves, but at the same time we need to be social we are social creatures our Health and well-being depends on feeling connected and part of a community So we're gonna be moving into a situation where exactly this a Skype call a zoom call is going to be our Opportunity to socialize especially if this quarantine last months and potentially a year plus So there is the part of yes being physically in the same room with someone and the nonverbal communication that's lacking But exactly your point There's also this need to replay and almost think about it like a tape delay like oh, I wish I would have said that or I wish I could have been more charismatic in those moments and For you, you know, obviously the experience at a young age feeling this way throwing yourself into video games and now Transitioning into podcasting tell us a little bit more about that backstory for you because it is fairly remarkable Yeah, absolutely. So like I'm previous interviews and podcasts and stuff when people hear that I was making Like six figures when I was 15 16 from doing something that I loved a lot who like oh my god You're some kind of like a Wunderkin entrepreneur and the matter of the fact is is like because I had social anxiety Because of the fact that it put up so many boundaries on my life I didn't really have any real friends Wasn't a part of any groups clubs didn't play any sports and so quite frankly out of just a coping mechanism To just deal with the stresses of my life. I Got on the internet pretty early like like a year before social media Was beginning to establish in like 2007 had a YouTube channel in like 2008 2009 Eventually just started to learn how to code Websites iPhone came out started to make apps eventually I got really into just like making random websites making little things that people can use And then sometimes make money and when I was 15, I ended up stumbling across this game called Minecraft and Long story short. I just made this multiplayer server so I could just play with me and a couple of my friends and Next thing, you know, we kind of open it up to the public and Long story short it becomes the world's number one Minecraft server We start to make a ton of money and whatnot and honestly what happened was Because of the fact that I was getting external validation now from the outside world people virtually are telling me I'm awesome I went to like I went to this conference once when I was 17 like this Minecraft conference And they were like all like these 14 and 30 year old boys walking up to me And it was just really just feelings and emotions that I had never experienced before But also at that same time I realized that you know, because my parents immigrated here to this country from Egypt They came here with $200 never really had any kind of money before and so I had this kind of narrative in my head of You know, once I make enough money, then I'll buy a house You know, I'll get a dog and I'll be happy and my problems will go away And so I reached out at a pretty early age and if anything it just made me even more confused It just kind of I was like I'm like I'm still a loser. I still think of myself. Nothing in my life has actually changed Aside from the material world and so when that happened sent me on like a really interesting confusing path in my life for like three four years where it ended up me turning out going to college and Me falling down sort of a super stressful Spiral in my life where my lifelong social anxiety turned into Social isolation and I think I began to actually become depressed seriously for the first time in my life Which eventually down led me down this rabbit hole being over 200 pounds at one point I was like suicidal for for a month and I mean eventually it led me to you know, sort of understanding that I had social anxiety and getting on the path of trying to on a daily basis sort of heal from that begin to take the right kinds of steps and You know, I ended up losing the weight becoming a confident person starting a business podcast And yeah, I mean it's been a pretty interesting. It's been a pretty interesting journey to the least mark I would think with being that young and There wouldn't be a lot of I wouldn't think that there would be a lot of other kids your age Who were coming to that realization as quickly as you were coming to it? was how I Guess the question would be was there what was the the moment that you Were honest with yourself to answer. Yes, it's the root cause of this is my social anxiety, which has put me in this position and Was who was there for you when you needed somebody to help pull you out of that So the really interesting part about this is like when I was a kid and I was going through this I actually had no idea that I had social anxiety I just thought that like there was just something wrong with me I was just born and destined to be some kind of a loner like just kind of in my own bubble and so, you know, there was a lot of sort of a Lot of judgment a lot of lack of forgiveness lack of acceptance around who I really was in the first place and so when I was 18 and I was in college I Went to my first college party and I got drunk for the first time and When I you know was inebriated all of a sudden I was like whoa I could walk up to any guy or girl and say whatever I want and I remember the next day being like whoa Whoa, whoa, whoa like I've like I've never been able to do that Like what just sort of happened and that was like the beginning of me actually becoming consciously aware of the fact that I had social anxiety and as I did that began to you know, Google it look it up. I'm like. Oh, wow. This is actually Essentially this this response that my body my brain has gone through at a young age and In turn, you know, there there's a lot of consequences and so When I first realized that The really interesting thing was it gave me some degree of liberation because I was like, oh, I guess I'm not just a Super terrible person, but this is actually like some scientific thing that is a part for me But also at the same time it really really scared me in the sense of Like when you identify a problem in your life and you actually realize that it's there Then that means that you can do something about it You can actually get on that path of trying to learn more about it Trying to take actions trying to learn from other people and so when that first happened I was not a fan of that and I tried to run in the other direction and I tried to be like Hey, how do I get this voice out of my head? I don't I don't want to deal with the responsibilities of life And so that led me down More alcohol more partying You know just any kind of thing that I could do to shut my brain off binge watching Netflix for me My real one was food. I binge a I would essentially just try to Fill the hole in my soul with like sour patch kids and pizzas and and ice creams and Next thing I know I'm like 200 pounds and when I was in that really dark moment in my life The really interesting part about it was you know my my parents my family my sister They would tell me like hey marker. Are you alright? You seem a little off. You seem not like yourself You seem a little bit different at that time too. I also had two roommates and You know, believe it or not. They had they had no idea and so like a point in my book that I talk about is like Especially people that have social anxiety that have really like perfected Like this mask this social mask that they put around themselves a lot of us are are struggling and We are putting up like this perfect illusion perfect facade And so there were many people around my life that I loved and they love me But unfortunately a lot of them just quite frankly couldn't help me because I didn't tell them and so, you know two things that really happened to me that kind of began to shift my perspective was When I began to walk around outside and essentially what I would do is in Boston I would walk to Like the most dangerous part of the city where there's like the most crime and shootings And I would just take a walk there because I would fantasize about someone Walking up to me and just ending my life because I was just in so much pain that I had no idea how to get out of it And so when I was at that point One thing that I began to do was I listened to my first podcast and I listened to my first podcast with Tim Ferriss and it was some random episode and he was talking about the fact that when he was in college He was also suicidal and he wrote this letter and so I was walking and in my in my earbuds I'm like wow this guy is talking about how he was in my position that I'm literally in right now And yet this guy has like, you know, it's not just the fact that he has a big podcast But he's he's influencing a lot of people. He's helping people change their lives and so on and so forth That was one of them and the other one was I I remember on one of those nights when I was walking I I really began to not use my phone I wasn't distracted This was like at 2 30 a.m. No cars in the middle of the street Nobody walking no distractions know nothing and and it's hard to explain to be quite honest But I kind of felt this I heard this eerie sense of silence it was almost as if I could hear silence for the first time in my life and I remember just like kind of looking around and I felt like I for the first time in my life felt almost like a Like a warm sense of intuition from the inside of me kind of like kind of like my mom walked up to me and gave Me a hug. It was like that very warm loving feeling and when that happened That gave me the hope that gave me the face to realize that Wow, maybe and I was 18 at the time I was like man, maybe I actually don't know everything about life Maybe I actually don't know that my life is gonna be terrible and I'm so screwed up because clearly I just experienced an emotion that I didn't even know existed and so when I Kind of had that honestly, it was almost like a mini moment of like surrender where I realized like My ego is not always right and like a lot of people don't understand the fact that you could have a very low Self-esteem you could have very low self-confidence But you could have a massive ego and that ego is always trying to get you to realize that you're right I know you're right. You did it this way, but for me like the real break That led me to to who I am now was realizing that I Really had to surrender my ego. I had to realize that I don't know all the answers I had to stop the the way that I was living my life and just get out there and learn and try to take those Steps and try to get out there and so honestly, there were many many people who helped me on my journey Like my mom dad sister my best friends. I had a best friend of mine Come to my college dorm room and he didn't leave until we got to hang out I told him not man. I don't I don't want to hang out and he literally stayed Downstairs and called me like 65 times and so there were so many people that helped me on my journey and You know, I thank those people every single day in my life. So that's a fantastic question I think there's two points that you brought up there that I That I think are important to unpack and number one is that For most of us who have social anxiety our friends and family don't recognize it or see it Because we're not second-guessing ourselves around them It's strangers and people who don't know us who would probably pick up on that social anxiety So unfortunately a lot of the people around us are conditioned to just say hey, just be yourself. It's okay You're you're totally fine like you're all it's all on your head and they dismiss it And of course that dismissing it makes you feel it stronger because you're like wow Then something is really wrong with me because they're saying I shouldn't even worry about it Why is this thing weighing me down? I think the second thing that was really remarkable is When you realize that there is this social anxiety You're confronted with a choice now of dealing with it and trying to fix it Whereas before you knew about social anxiety You're just like well, I was just born this way and this is just how my life is gonna be It's like a fish in water, but when you realize. Oh, it doesn't have to be this way Now you're forced to actually put in work and that that choice can be a lot of pressure that a lot of people don't realize of like Oh, well, I need to go about fixing this now. This isn't right. This isn't the way it should be What were the steps that you went through to start breaking the social anxiety? I think the realization is key and obviously our listeners who are dealing with social anxiety Will relate to the fact that yeah friends and family don't pick up on these signals How did you make your way through and come out the other side human 2.0? Absolutely, man, so So what's really interesting is when I first discovered that I had social anxiety and I did some googling I did some research and I found out like oh, yeah The way to do this is to expose yourself to systematically Incrementally expose yourself to these things and so I remember Trying to do this and I remember trying to walk outside in like city of Boston and just try to talk to random strangers on the street and I would Like see someone and then my brain Who would talk me out of it? No, no, no not that person They look like they're busy just do it to the next person and the next person comes you're like no No, no, no, like that's not good And then you're like to me when I was in that moment my nervous system was literally sending me messages Like dude, you're gonna die. You need to run you need to hide and so I tried doing that and I Really couldn't get it to work and so I don't exactly know but I think it it stressed me out even more And so funny enough when I had that moment where I was walking on the street and I was suicidal And I kind of had this really transformative interpersonal experience. I remember running back home and I remember looking at myself in the mirror and At this time I actually didn't know any of this was happening. I didn't know I was in rock bottom I actually didn't know that I was depressed and What happened was when I looked at myself in the mirror All of a sudden it was like I was in the present moment and it was almost as if like I was like, huh Why aren't why aren't my pants fitting me anymore? And that was almost like a like I woke up from the trance that I was in where I was depressed and obese and all The stuff and I was like wait. I'm I'm overweight. This is never happening before and so with that happens I began to tackle the material world first. I was like I went on Google. Hey, how do I lose weight? And then of course I was hit with you know 650 different Ideologies diets detoxes all this stuff But it but eventually I was led down This this way of eating this diet. That's basically just it's called bulletproof. I'm sure you guys have heard of that eat natural things that Advocates for mental performance and so I began to eat that way and also at the same time over the summer I was just reading a wide variety of books But they were mostly all about health and nutrition because I just wanted to lose weight And so after I had lost the weight I remember looking at myself in the mirror and being like, oh my god I did this like there's a before and after and at that moment. I actually realized that self-development was a real thing For whatever reason up to that point. It never occurred to me like hey if you Put in this if you push this button something else is gonna come out And so when I experienced that I realized that changes very much possible And so once I had that level of energy just because of the food that I was eating I Kind of felt like my brain turned on and when that happened I began to exercise for the first time in my life when that happens Then you begin to sleep well seven eight hours for the first time in your life And then after that you get even more energies. You're like, hey Let me try reading a ton of these books and then you read these books like, huh? Everyone's talking about meditation. Everyone's talking about breathing. Everyone's talking about journaling And so I basically just started to stack these habits and then that eventually gave me the foundation to be able to Do what I originally set out to do of like systematically expose myself to these things because it it honestly Get it made it much easier. And so like the really interesting part about this is Like when I was doing my research for the book I'm super glad that I originally went down the path of eating food at first because when I was doing my research for my book and it specifically in terms of social anxiety and also Some other mental health issues There's often a key neurotransmitter that pops up, which is serotonin It's mentioned a lot in the mental health fields and also like in leadership circles It's a very very complex neurotransmitter. It does a lot of things in our body from regulating our mood to some parts of our appetite sexual desire sleep and it regulates our Functioning and social groups and so this specifically for social anxiety is key and when I was doing my research a lot of people Like a lot of the leading researchers maybe about 15 years ago We're thinking that because it's a neurotransmitter. It's got to be in your brain, right? It's got to be in your mind That's actually not the case. It turns out that Only five percent five ten percent of serotonin is in your brain 90 95 percent is in your gut microbiome, which is this vast ecosystem of Bacteria next to your stomach and intestines that human beings have essentially formed symbiotic relationship with For thousands of years that has made us the number one species on this planet anytime you eat food You've got microbiome digested first and then it passes it off to your body and so I mean in in my book screw being shy I go into a lot of the studies that are correlating nutrition with mental health in this emerging field of psychology called nutritional psychiatry and I'm super glad that I kind of got started with this biochemical foundation Because I really feel like it gave me sort of a strong base to then be able to you know Maybe decrease the fear I had I like a biological level because my body and brain weren't getting enough sleep Wasn't exercising was putting you know a ton of alcohol a ton of sugar that was inflaming my brain and Causing this issue to be even worse and like the section in my book where I talk about this I call it first my gut broke and then my brain broke and I talked about the time We're like the only time where I was really Depressed and suicidal was the one time where I was binge eating a ton of crap and I gained a ton of weight And so I think there's definitely a correlation there that is super interesting That I've heard on my show from a lot of like the leading Neuroscientists and doctors between this super strong correlation between our food Neurotransmitters and how that impacts our mental health and how we actually perform in group settings Mark I am so glad that you I know we've taken heat over the years for for talking about diet and exercise on the show Because they're like guys stick to socialization stick to conversation. This is not important and Well, there's that and it's if you're going to get into self-development. You just can't Do one little thing and expect it's all connected. And so you have to dive in Wholeheartedly and and when we're running our week-long programs, it's it encompasses Everything we encourage the guys to work out how they work out We encourage the guys to eat right because it's all going to play a role in How you're viewing the world and how your brain works and adapts to new ideas if you're eating junk And you're not exercising your brain is not going to adapt. It's not going to be malleable and You're talking about this fight-or-flight response. That's being stimulated Well, it's gonna take a massive amount of energy to overcome that signaling and you're not gonna get that energy from ice cream and pizzas And you know just to bring it around to really quickly what we're what's going on right now I mean, we are at a war with an invisible enemy and your health is your number one weapon and Defense in order to get through this and for everyone well for me It's been remarkable going to the grocery store and seeing what's Sailing off the shelves and all the healthy foods that people aren't choosing and I saw a funny Overheard LA of course to take it away. That was like well now. We'll see who the real vegans are Because in this situation, you know, we're defaulting to the frozen pizzas We're defaulting to the easy ready-made food and I have friends who are panicking saying I don't know how to cook and I'm like well Making sure that you can get whole nutritious foods in this time when you need a strong immune system You need to be well rested to take on this terrifying disease Obviously, we're looking at sleep. We're looking at food. We're looking at exercise. Wait, we're talking about social anxiety It's a head scratcher for some in the audience But when you have these things dialed in you start looking around at other people going man You don't know what it feels like to live with a solid foundation. Well, I just an example of that as well There was there I think and even Penn from Penn and Teller does a show here Yeah, or he's a he's a part of cast and I had seen an interview with him where he obviously for most of his life has been overweight and And and he was saying that there would have never been a time that He would have admitted to anyone that he wasn't happy. He had tons of success and money and power in Vegas from the work that he has done and he put all of that energy into it, but he was wildly out of shape and was eating horribly and He after getting that straightened out through his journey When he he says now when I look back, I can't even believe How horrible I felt and didn't even recognize it because I couldn't admit it to myself and it takes Getting healthy and looking back and seeing how you were behaving at crucial times That that shown how you actually felt about yourself. Yeah Yeah, absolutely and and the way that I think about it is like Software and hardware the software is like your mindset social skills Maybe even beliefs the books you read the podcast you listen to The conversations you have and then I think there's hardware Which is like everything that the software is running on your body The physical organ that holds your mind, which is your brain You've got microbiome all these things and like the analogy I give in my book is like listen dude You could you could have like you could have the best version of iOS from Apple You could have iOS 15 or whatever they're on. I have no idea But if you try to install that on like an iPhone 2 like the most outdated slow hardware I mean listen man You could sit there for a while and try to brute force it But the matter of the fact is It's gonna be easier if you can begin to look at these pieces that work together and like the I talk about in my book It's like biochemistry For sure nothing is easy, but biochemistry is is much easier Then you know talking to someone who's lived the life of social anxiety where their number one fear is talking to people It's much easier to slowly get them to start putting the right things in their mouth Start moving start sleeping and then make that almost like a like a stable foundation To then go off of and then do all those other hard things where we now know that you know If your brain isn't getting the right kinds of nutrients if it isn't getting the right kinds of fats If it isn't getting the right kinds of movement sleep hydration excessive amounts of Drugs toxins all these things they very much impact your mindset at a foundational level That goes much much deeper than just sort of like the surface level software I think you definitely need both. Yeah, I think the problem is a lot of people look for the shortcuts and they want to Overclock their processor They want to push things to the limit by adding new atropics and taking all this stuff and supplements Thinking oh, well if I just get this extra 10% out of my processor and it's like no you need a full hardware upgrade You're not gonna be able to run iOS 15 even if you overclock your iPhone 4 so it also is a challenge because Many of the things that are hardwired into us you look at school nutrition You look at the way we're raised now to just get the food from the stores It's pre-prepared and you see the food that sells in in times like this and you realize that it is an uphill battle But when you go the other end and you start eating whole foods you start looking at your diet You start looking at your sleep. You're setting yourself up for success. Those are the big dominoes that knock everything else into place. I wanted to Bring that to another piece of this and mark from being on those sides of Technology from being your age and using it to be able to put all of your pain into and be successful And then having this transformation and using that same technology to lift other people up. I Think this also goes if you're eating right if you're feeling good It's going to be easier for you to use this technology as something to lift up others rather than to use this technology to attack others and and the only way to do that is to make sure that that But you are on the on on that right path putting that discipline within yourself So you can override some of the mechanisms that would cause you to attack others On online virtually the the question then on to your end was how Obvious to you Conscious to you was that that a moment that you were now starting to use this technology in a different manner After you have gotten yourself together. Yeah, well I think that's such a good question you raise because you know, I I'm a believer of this quote of Use a tool don't let the tool use you and so I think that when you have a population that Just in broad terms is confused due to and more or less talking about the perspective for my generation A population that is confused because there's a lack of leadership It's never been a more confusing time to be a human being because back then you would just follow whatever path was in front of you Whatever your parents said, but now you can open your phone and you see a thousand different paths of life and from a thousand different people That are living on different corners, then you ask wait. Is this actually right? Is this actually the truth? What am I supposed to do? And then you get a population that is physically unhealthy like you're talking about Varying issues like the obesity rate and for me the really interesting thing was when I Developed social anxiety when I was like 10 11. I also came down with varying health conditions at the same exact time like Asthma ADD Insomnia issues with my skin stomach appendix a lot a wide variety of things and so when you're talking about a population that's like that and you're also talking about You know one of the most powerful tools that anyone can have without a License without any kind of training without a single class in school of like hey Here's how to use your phone. Here's how to use this technology because the matter of the fact is is You know the average person walking around now with a smartphone I believe has more computing power in their pocket than you then the United States president did 20 years ago And so when you're talking about that, it's like And you just throw in that super powerful piece of technology to a population that is already Not doing so well. You're gonna get a massive portion of them Escape into what I call the digital dark vortex I mean listen man I have hours and hours in video games where I genuinely thought that I was the character in that game And I was like leveling up in like the same way now where I'm like in real life. I can make more money You know, I can develop the right kinds of relationships. I can work on my my physical my fitness I was doing all that stuff, but in video games. And so when you're talking about that and you also look at for example a friend of mine Steven Kotler He wrote the book stealing fire and it's all about this state of mind called flow Where you feel your best and you perform your best and like that sense of self disappears And he was telling me that video games are the best at doing this and this can also be like video games on your phone to or whatever and He also told me that if you tried To mimic flow chemically speaking Like with drugs external drugs you would literally OD because it's not possible And so I think there's like this massive massive percentage of the population that is really lost is confused and they're going towards the easiest thing which is You know social media a game phone and in turn, you know, if you think to yourself Hey, I'm socially anxious and I'm this way. So let me just and of course the quarantine aside Let me just sit inside and not talk to people and play these video games that Perpetuates the cycle was like, yeah, you have no social skills because you haven't even gone outside and tried because you're sort of too busy Locked into a virtual world. And so that to me is is what comes to mind and like you said I mean, there's a part of my book where I say like social media could either be You know an amazing thing for you or it could completely destroy you And so you really have to look at I think the psychology behind the user that's using that tool in the first place and then also just like How do you learn more about this to actually make your day your day? Right and so that goes to like shutting off notifications, you know for me like I schedule The times when I'm on social media in my calendar So I'm not just like running around like a fish checking my phone while I'm doing a thousand things Which destroys like the focusing muscle of your brain and so yeah I mean, it's it's super interesting and honestly, I think a big thing is like Just I'm just getting really intentional about how you use this technology And if it's using you or you're the one actually using it for what kind of specific intention Yeah, I think you look at social media and it's just like go into the grocery store You can choose the empty calories You can be wowed by all the fancy colors and the labels and the intense marketing that's going on there Or you can choose to eat your vegetables and follow the people who are espousing discipline espousing Utilizing the time we have here on this planet, which we're all feeling now could be cut short You know, how are you using that time? And I think now is a great time for reflection and getting into that. What are you doing now? We're just starting the quarantine. So what are you doing to stay more connected to keep yourself from falling back into that? socially anxious state and How can we keep practicing our socializing while we're socially distancing? Man, this is like the hardest I mean honestly what I would say is of course like Like personally for me Like now the fact that you know, this stuff is happening, you know for sure like Again like state of the world aside Economy aside Health and the 8,000 people that I've died already aside. I think that this is going to be really great for people Because when you're sitting inside for two weeks, like you said it really brings you back to those questions. And so for me I'm getting like I feel like Monday morning, I feel like I'm going on like a campaign like I'm I'm writing all the things down that I'm supposed to do I'm like, hey, I'm gonna do a hundred burpees today. I have a pull-up bar and in between my bathroom door I'm doing those every time I pass by My schedule is filled with With meetings face-timing people I think that's really what it's about If it's possible for you if you don't live in like a super crowded area Going outside getting some kind of sunlight super super important doctor Dr. Daniel Aiman, which you guys should totally have on the shot. I don't know if you know him or not He's like world-top Mental health doctor. He's like he's like Justin Bieber's doctor all these people He's found that the single the one correlation between all mental health problems is a vitamin D Deficiency lack of vitamin D, which you primarily get from the Sun and then also some some foods that you eat and so yeah, man I mean, I'm if anything I'm just using this time more of an excuse to focus more on Discipline and really doing it because like again all the you know Really not so great things happening in the world to a lot of people their jobs all that stuff aside I think people are gonna look back at this whether it's two months three months six months a year I don't know ten years and they're gonna be like man that that one month quarantine that three month quarantine I don't know was like the time that almost the universe gave me to focus on the things that are most important in my life and to almost begin rebuilding I am and to begin to not necessarily fix but to begin to almost upgrade yourself and so Yeah, physical exercise number one, of course, I'm always eaten clean 99.9% of the time Face-time and people calm people Right now I'm reaching out to friends that I haven't talked to in in years like that are on my contact list and so I Think I think this is really like and maybe this is just because I'm an optimist I think this is really the time where like a lot of us are getting back in touch with our human values That kind of got us here and I remember although it's not near to the scale But I remember here in Boston when we had the Boston Marathon bombing Our entire city came together, you know We sort of felt a sense of unity that we've never had before and the city has never been the same sense And so quite honestly, I think with all the things going on in the world from whatever politics tribalism people It's us versus you Then that's it and one of my friends a vision Lockeani founder of Mindvalley says that if you don't have a vision then you seek division and so I Think this like what's happening. I hope the opposite happens And I hope we all unite and we focus on ourselves and then we also focus on How do we be of service to other people because we could literally die for all we know so it's interesting There certainly is a lot of hope and you know for myself I I'm on our Twitter. I was chatting with you yesterday and I'm trying to Ignore the the negativity that's going on on social media and I'm trying to look at all the positives and there are a lot of beautiful stories of people coming together and We know throughout history that when there was a common enemy that That all nations that are set up right now have been able to galvanize come together and go after that And it's it's when we get soft and lazy and there's nothing to fight that we end up eating ourselves and And we have let's hope we don't And you could make the argument that that's what has been going on for a little while And I you know, I'm going to agree with you on the optimism thing And I'm hoping for the best here that this is certainly what we need to shake things up Yeah, I think there's no doubt that we've all become complacent And I think the time that we've spent now outside of our routine outside of quote unquote normal has hopefully provided us Some time to realize that some of the things we really cared about were pretty frivolous and pointless and meaningless and likes and views and And who's commenting on what really don't matter. I think reconnecting with family members I know I've been using FaceTime as well It's great that they now have group FaceTime so you can actually get a few people on So obviously using the tools that we have to stay connected to our loved ones and also still seek out Socialization online. I don't think it has to be just because we're isolated We have to turn off meeting new people or expressing ourselves online even the danger Of course is trying to completely escape through video games and unplug and not take care of yourself So I definitely believe that it's important that we Unfortunately realize that this is probably going to be a lot longer than anyone anticipated and Thinking that this is going to be over soon is probably too wishful thinking at this point So realizing that yes, it's going to be very hard financially on a tremendous amount of people But also in the time that we have let's make the most of it Let's reconnect with each other and let's work on ourselves Now obviously launching a book screw being shy All of our listeners have tons of time to pick up books and read them Hopefully I know we've had a lot of great guests on over the years who have books and your book screw being shy Recently came out. Yeah, man recently came out. I was supposed to come out Saturday, March 14th But I was like, listen, this is happening. I'm just going to release it a day early. So it came out Friday and And yeah, I mean honestly like to me. I kind of wrote this book for myself I kind of wrote it for like the 12 year old version of me and Anytime that someone hears my story any time that I'm speaking at an event or someone hears my story or whatever The number one thing is like someone will walk up will walk up to me and I'll almost see You know the the previous version of myself and then like the way that they're walking talking They're a little bit socially anxious. Maybe a little bit too shy and You know, I can't exactly give that person like hey, here are three quick tips I'm like, hey, I'm gonna launch this book 15% of the profits for the physical version are automatically donated to the American American Foundation for Suicide the audiobook comes out the last week of this of this month and it's gonna be free for a weekend and I'm just trying to get this message out there as soon as possible because honestly like Perhaps the most alarming piece of like legit science and data statistics out there that I almost fell into was Social anxiety is one of the most common Anxiety conditions in America and it is them out of all of them It is the most correlated with substance abuse and social isolation Both of which are heavily connected to suicide which kills 850,000 people a year and like similar to a point you were saying We now live in a world where you're more likely to kill yourself Then someone else to walk up to you and kill you and so I'm 22. I don't have all the answers. I wrote this book because I'm like People literally need to know this at like a science practical story-based level so people can check it out Thank you guys so much for having me on this is like a out-of-body experience because I've been such a fan of your podcast So thank you guys for having me on thank you for sharing your story And I feel like more people need to realize they're not alone in feeling that way and they can overcome it It is something that doesn't have to be Unfortunately such a negative experience or death sentence for some people. So thank you for sharing your story mark. We really appreciate it Good luck isolating yourselves. We're gonna lice all down the entire studio here and make sure no Germs came our way over Skype. Yeah, stay safe