 Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to Entrepreneur India's Resilience period. Today's topic of discussion is Virtual Window, the rise of video meeting apps. I'm Saurav Kumar, editor special project entrepreneur India, the moderator for the session. I'll start by laying out the ground rules for our attendee. The discussion will go on for 30 minutes or so. This will be followed by a Q&A session for the next 15 minutes. If you have any questions during the course of the discussion, you can post them through the Q&A option. If you're watching live on Facebook, you can post your questions in the comment section. Mention in your question if it is directed towards any of the panelists. We'll take up the question for the final discussion. Let me now introduce our panelists for the day. We have with us today Mr. Ranujgarh, co-founder and CEO of Insteps, which has the video of conferencing a facility called Srinamaste and Dr. Ajay Dutta, founder and CEO of Data Engineers for Global, which has a product called Video Meet. Welcome, everyone. I'll start by putting forward two instances I thought, which came to my mind when I was thinking about video conferencing apps or products. A few years back when I used to cover oil and gas at some point in time, the crude oil prices were skyrocketing. One of the finance heads of one of the national Indian oil explorers told me that while unfortunately when oil prices are high, the country loses due to the products out go, but oil-exploding companies gain because of better realisation per baron. Another instance I would want to cite is the demonetisation. While there were many hardships for general public businesses working in losses, but didn't the companies stop paradigm change in their business? Which one do you think is more relatable to what happened to video meeting apps during COVID? Or would you say this is a different circumstance and these are completely different products altogether? Ajay, if I can start with you. So it's a technology world and technology is merciless when it tries to kill the incumbent. Whether it is tax machine, pager, music equipment, radio, calculator, whatever you can think of, thermometer, Fitbit devices, all have been merged together in our smartphones. And this has just happened in front of our own eyes, right? And this is likely to happen in a very, very large aspect. Kodak, Word Player just went, Nokia just went, all SMS business has just went away. In last 15 years, this video-conferencing business is obviously taking a lot more adoption. And when an armed man, I would say, is taking into the participation of this entire journey to participate, meet, engage, and network with the people. This existed before. We had the Skype, we had the WhatsApp, we had the FaceTime, people were meeting, maybe more casual talks, maybe for a little bit of business, but not real core corporate environment was coming there. And now what has happened is because of this lockdown, it's a matter of invention. So this people like us who saw that our customers and our own businesses needed that kind of solution. So we required that kind of platform and not only our own thought, government of India's call for innovation also moved in that direction and force this, fuel this entire exercise to build the Indian video-conferencing solution. I guess there are many, many polls here. You can relate to wherever you want to, depending upon the need one person had. But like for example, in the company like us, we had 1000 people team and we ourselves needed something to communicate because work from home became the key. And we were fortunate to have been practiced before even the lockdown on 27 March happened in Rajasthan. We moved ahead and started working from home seven days before. We practiced that, install the internet, reach the PC at home, required computer, VP and everything is required. Now obviously we could not see. So what do you use? So you require to WhatsApp kaam chalu karte hai, Skype pe karte hai, but it was not working out. So you started building. We already had something led to video calling in our portfolio. So we had to just convert into conferencing so that we have better control over who is to participate, when to participate, whom to control on other stuff. So I guess this is the need of the day and we have learned new ways how we are going to engage not only with our team, but with our customers, friends, families and engage with the technology much more sharper and better. So Namaste. Thank you for having me on your show. What Ajay said is I resonate with that completely. And I'll just add to that is also this challenged our existing preconceived notions of what can and what cannot be possible. So one example was that if we were having a meeting, first instinct would be to say that, if you're not meeting face to face, kaam nahi ho satta hai. First instinct. And of course there are challenges to both aspects of it. You can come to that later during this program, but inherently that was our bias that we said ki nahi, yeh video kaam to nahi ho ba. Of course now the whole world has seen how were the last four or five months, it's just been this. And you have seen this across the world, billion dollar deals, IPOs have happened just on video conferencing for example. So traditional industries also which were first very purely relationship based on person to person meetings, those conversations also have moved towards video. So I think it has absolutely, it has been like a paradigm shift in this entire way that we go about thinking this. And this is the beginning of this journey. So just because video conferencing today has come out in this avatar, it is not that this is what is going to continue for the next 25 years. This is the first start. And as I think we are seeing so many different examples, so many different niches that are happening, you will see that the solution will get tailored more and more towards each and every use case. Okay. So you know I just said that earlier we would say that until unless you meet someone who are face to face, you know deals won't happen or something like that. But from then and now there is a difference. At that point in time I had the choice to do a one-on-one meeting. But at this point in time, I do not have that choice. So but I want my business to continue. So do you think this is kind of a forced adoption or is it like a case that we have got and now we'll take it forward from here? Yeah, that's a great question. And I have thought about this. I keep going back and forth on this. But the reality is that this is a can of worm which has now been opened. Now, once you have tasted this, video conferencing is not going to replace 100 percent of things, right? So for certain things, you know, you need to sit face to face, right? When you're catching up with your friends and you're playing a board game, you want to sit across the table and you want to be with them in that place, right? That's the energy that you drive out of. However, for a lot of business and interaction, for a lot of business travel, we've all realized as CEOs, as entrepreneurs, that the amount of expenses that have gone towards these things, a lot of these can be eliminated. So I'm not saying that 100 percent will be eliminated, but up to 80 percent can be eliminated simply because a lot of these meetings which were conducted face to face were not necessary. And that I think everybody has seen right now. That is one point which has made a big difference. The second is also the breadth of meetings that you can take, right? Like in a single day, for me, from a productivity perspective, if earlier I was only able to meet four or five people spread across locations, even in Mumbai, today I can cram in 10, 12 meetings if I need to, because simply there is no time lost due to commute or any of these other things. So I think across corporate, across use cases, we are seeing folks where we are able to see the clear advantages in terms of time saved, efficiency, productivity. I think that has been a big change. So that is not going anywhere. Ajay, what do you think? I think there is a big gap. And I think the way forward is threefold here. Something will permanently shift on virtual way, video conferencing way. Some things will not change. People have tested it. People have seen the benefits and they are going to stay. Some things were going to hybrid way. So the events, I do not see an event now, which is a public event without virtual availability. The events are now going to have a virtual add-on at a hook to every event. This is one permanent fixture, which is going to be there in almost every event you can imagine. So this is a hybrid model, which is likely to come. And of course, because there is a lot of cost saving, which Anuj has raised a flag, and I am sure there is a lot of investment on technology, which is going to be for conferencing. So I will not be surprised that what you see video conferencing today, it transforms completely. So the holograms are coming into picture, artificial intelligence, augmented reality. While we are talking right now, sort of we like it or not, this is on the screen. Could we actually create a studio and it looked like that we all three are talking? So this could be real. And with the augmented reality, we all three are in a setup and this will look like that we all three are sitting in a studio and talking. This is the new feature, which is going to be there. People will not even imagine that we are sitting in a studio or we are sitting at our home. This is not very far. This is going to change because the investment, which is likely to come in video conferencing is not this video conferencing, what you are seeing today is not going to be remain like that. Very, very fast changing. And it is the players, small players will just be wiped out. They will not be there. It will require a large investment. It will require that technologies and it will not be just plain WhatsApp call or two people seeing each other. That will remain there, but a very, very less stage, just like Kirana stores in the gully or the large malls. This kind of gap will come very, very soon. But this technology is obviously going to transform the way we are going to function in future. That's the very interesting talk you told about. We are coming into play. That would really be a game changer. I would believe that. So as Ajay was saying that it was the product he was already there. The company was using it and it was just a time. It just happened so that they graduated and made it into a bigger product. So you think that it was also the case with you that, what are you thinking? Because your product came right in between the lockdown and you've done quite well from there on in terms of downloads. And also tell us about your journey a little bit during the lockdown and how state number state came into being. Yeah, absolutely. So for us, actually our background is we create the underlying technology in communication products. So essentially we are in the business in the last 10 years. Me and my twin brother, we've been creating communication products and we powered the underlying technology for any communication collaboration product. While we never had our own direct product for consumers to use, we were in the B2B segment primarily. And now, of course, this is more like a B2B C segment, I would say, where you have businesses as consumers. It's not a traditional sales cycle that we have in any of this. For us, it just became sort of, there was this whole call happening in terms of from folks happening about that security, privacy is compromised on video platforms, people asking me, why aren't you guys doing something about this? And I brushed it off saying, yeah, yeah, fine, I mean, video conferencing really, why do we need to get into this space? But I think as more and more time passed in the lockdown, we realized that one, the existing providers, people are not happy for whatever reasons. And then this is an entry into a market for us being a natural alignment because we've been in this space. And so I think, so similar to what Ajay said, we also had a very similar experience where, before the lockdown, we were able to move our entire employee strength to work from home, send them computers and them homes, like you said, set up their VPNs, all of those things. And the same thing, where we also felt, okay, we're doing all this, we're doing all of these conferencing, you know, we're doing all these meetings, why aren't we doing these, you know, why we're doing these meetings on Google Meet, for example, right? Why can't we use our own solution? And I think to start with, because we started dogfooding our own product, I think that's sort of what the genesis of say Namaste for us was. And we just started using it in our meetings. And we started really liking the whole interface, we started liking the way we thought about designing this. And I just put it out there and, you know, sent it to a few friends and said, you know what, hey guys, we've just kind of demoing this out, why don't you guys give it a shot, you know, and it's just sort of, it really worked well for them and just caught the fancy and that's sort of how it became almost a vital phenomenon. Before I move to the next question, I'll again request our attendees to, you know, post their questions and take them for the discussion. Ajay, I'll come to you, you know, now data security is something that, you know, Anu just talked about. And, you know, we've seen that a lot of businesses when they start, data security is not the primary focus. It comes, it eventually, you know, gels in. But, but so, you know, India and Indian video conferencing apps are at the very beginning. And, you know, we have seen the government also calling out one of the biggest video conferencing apps because they're apparently their, you know, servers are in China. And we are not happy with that. So data localization was an issue already. So do you think that's one of the primary focus that we have kept from the very beginning and what you have done about it? Unfortunately, word over for people do not want to spend on security from day one. It is like insurance. Even AMC people have very low attitude to spend. But companies like us, this is, this becomes our responsibility to protect them, whether they like, whether they want, whether they don't want. So I think in a security product like us, which security becomes in our hands rather than in their hands, the rest mostly shifts on us. When we are providing a call or conferencing, then obviously without the legitimate authorized right, somebody should not be able to snoop into the conference or listen to the conference or record the conference without the knowledge of the host or the presenter or the participant with this kind of framework is required. Second thing is obviously data availability for the legal interception agencies has also becomes a very critical thing, which is an ongoing fight in India that how government of India is not using Zoom at all, but they are very happy to use WebEx or they are happy to use other tools which are probably as bad as Zoom for that parameter per se. The idea is when government of India announced challenge for innovation and we were in top 10 at that time, unfortunately, we could not move in that direction and we could just satisfy with the certificate of appreciation from them. We really focused on localization and security at that aspect and security is a paramount in our entire scenario where this conference becomes not really available for anybody who is not authorized at all or who is trying to snoop in and who do not have authorized access. This becomes a very important thing and if legal interception agencies obviously when the security comes then another problem comes automatically is then how do you allow the misuse with the anti-national activities. This becomes also as a parallel issue at the same time. So this needs to be also dealt with. So this is also required while the security is being built then you need to also see that you are able to support that there is no interest activity happens. If terrorism also uses a platform then how do you protect yourself and even allow legal agency to do it, just like telecom network. So this is also a very important aspect to be dealt with and we tried to deal with that from day one and as this is coincident that Anuj said that they are into communication space, we are also having our product into enterprise email. This is also communication around 80 million accounts we serve and that's the reason we had video calling application before. We have this part of Accision say and Accision IM that's there. Now this video conferencing is obviously in very different technology altogether but we know how the videos work, how audio works and travels over the network and how the security protocol and the real-time encryption and decryption happens. All those things are part of our DNA since 5-6 years now. This becomes a very important aspect to ensure that our government is able to monitor if required with the legal means whatever is going on over the network and at the same time the host and the participant and the presenters are able to ensure that they are fully protected and their unauthorized access to their consensus and calls are not available and the data whichever they are saving actually we have one more level, right to forget. So in video means we have a right to forget also. So if you sign up today and you host the meeting you can just wipe your account that's also there. So you can just forget the entire logs, entire records and we will forget whether you signed up sometime later. So we have this capability also which is built in as when you sign up together. So it's not stored anywhere. So it's not stored anywhere. Obviously, yes. So we never share. I get stored. Stored. Yeah, yeah. No, no. So when you wipe then it is wiped basically. So we do not store any trace whether you signed up or not signed up before. We never do that. So you will never hear from us ever. Yeah, of course, no, no, what what Ajay said is I completely agree, you know, like in terms of, you know, security something that tends to be taken at a large at a later stage. However, for me the way we looked at it was, you know, there is a reason why there is a call from the market which is asking for video conferencing solutions and because there was a clear gap in terms of security and privacy. These are the two clear areas which came nobody complained saying that, hey, you know what, we're not using XYZ video conferencing platform because the quality is not up to the mark. That was never the problem. The problem was is the data integrity going to be maintained? So I think the first thing that we needed to solve for was to make sure that the security and privacy of users is maintained intact. And for us, I mean, as an organization, because we're in the B2B space, we serve some of the biggest healthcare and finance customers, you know, privacy and security is part of our DNA. That's something which we have been doing over the years. So we understand, you know, what those things are. I think the other thing which this brought to the mainstream was so like if you see in like the EU in the European Union, you have the GDPR. Now the GDPR is a very strict set of rules which, you know, ensure the user privacy and if companies are not keeping up with that, they're held accountable. I think this is also accelerated this conversation into the mainstream where if earlier people did not even care about their privacy or about the security or about the residency of their data, common users became very aware and said, okay, but where is my server? Is this server in China? Where is why is the server not in India? Right? And rightly so, because the conversations that have happened on this and on other platforms, there have been some controversies about how accounts have been shut down simply because they were having a conversation which was not up to the standards of, you know, the powers that be. So there have been these kinds of issues which have cropped up regularly. So I think the main concern for every Indian is that can we have a secure private conversation, the likes of which we are used to having when we are sitting in a room together? Can we be assured of the basic human decent privacy? And I think that the organizations and the tools that have come that are focused on security and privacy are the ones who are able to also create a sense of, you know, authority in this space. The other thing is, for example, different companies will have like a different approach. Our approach going into this is that we don't collect data in the start. So we don't have any option to collect data. And by not collecting data, there is no way of that data leaking, essentially. That is the approach that we took for Sanamastur. So, you know, this talk about the server issue, you know, where is the server looking data and how it's kept. So do you really think it matters whether the data is localized or not or that it doesn't make much of a difference that where the server is until the time your security measures, your encryptions are in place? Do you think so? See, going forward, I think it won't matter. Currently, it matters because our laws are like that. So what happens, why we needed to block the 59 Chinese app? What was the reason? National security was paramount there, because when you have a company serving in the country to the citizens and taking the identities and the permissions in their phones, where they can access every call log and voice and data and camera and every damn thing which is available in the phone, which is obviously not only a phone, it is now a money transaction device. So you require some kind of accountability the moment you get into that phone. So I think what we require is a consent accountability framework in the country. So and before the service comes in, it doesn't matter where you are working in the world, if you want to serve the Indian citizen, you need to come into the legal framework of the country and then you serve the citizens. I think that is the way forward. Till we do not have that, law agencies want that we need to have a control over, if you get duped by a Chinese company, how does the government help you? That's a simple question, right? So you will ask the citizen, how come you allow him if you cannot provide me the solution? My money has been taken over, my money has been taken by this guy with this app and I am no more get the service. Who does help you? So the question is when the government is trying to provide you the service and they make the open, internet is all about openness. Internet is not about restrictions, not about blocking, not about blocking that particular app or a site. Internet do not allow that. It is not the right thing. It is not the right way to move forward. This is a interim arrangement to block things and provide some kind of security to the citizens where government or national law agencies think that there can be a real issue in the citizen's life and the national security. So from my point of view, the answer is very simple. The data can be stored anywhere, it should not matter and as long as the company who is trying to serve the country follows the law of the land, follows the legal framework of the country. If I want, for example, let me give you an example. If you want a wrong post about serve on Facebook, do you want to and you have an order to get it removed? And if Facebook doesn't have an office in India, how do you get it removed? It is very simple, right? And if they do not follow the Indian law, how does the even high court law, high court order matter? Where do you go and execute it? But the post remains there, right? So what's the point of Supreme Court order, high court order, it doesn't match you at all because you are not following that land. So the key is very simple. The moment the company wants to serve the India, serve the country, then the Facebook may store data anywhere. It doesn't matter. Right now that framework is not there from my point of view. That's the reason we need the control over the data so that we can order, remove it. We can take over the hard list. We can take over the servers. Government can go and take over and disconnect you from wherever they want to. They can take actions on that. I think that's the need of the data. I don't think otherwise technically it is practically possible even to check where the actual data is being stored. You could actually have a framework where you could be only having a website in India and that's everything is getting stored in Pakistan or China or Honolulu anywhere it can be and you can never find that out. Technically it can be very easily done. But the point is I think we need not to find, give the ways out to the people to play with us. We need to create the legal framework where people can really follow the law and store data wherever they like to. I think this is the future which is likely to be getting implemented. Obviously I think because otherwise it becomes very difficult for Indian companies like MSTRIPS or for that matter, data engineers to work in other countries because you would want to work in other countries like you have to comply with every country's laws and localization issues and I'm sure that it will be an impediment for even the Indian companies. What do you say? Sort of blocking is not the answer. We all know that and it is very counterproductive. If you block 59 Chinese then how do I serve China? How do I serve other countries? So they will also block us. It is not the way. We are in a global village. Let us accept that we have no geographical boundaries from the technology perspective. If geographical boundaries are being executed, the rights are being executed, we should assume a broken internet. We will not expect an internet. Internet will be broken completely in the next to come. If this continues, so you block this site, you block this content, you block this, this will not work. We are not living in a very colonized society here. We have to open it and allow people to follow the law. So there are a couple of themes which emerge in this and I think the main sort of what's happening is essentially software nationalism is on the rise worldwide and this is a theme which is emerging where you have companies not just in India but all over the world which are pushing for local. So if you are seeing, so from a data security perspective, let me give an example. I believe that data localization will continue even more. That while my comment on whether this is right or wrong is not the point, but while it happened is what I believe that it will continue to move in a direction where more and more companies will be able, will be forced or will have data servers located in the country that they are operating in and this is essentially because one, data is a new oil and so every country wants to make sure that they have, at least there is a comfort of a physical access to that space. So that will continue. Even today when we serve our customers, our American customers, some of them in the financial institutions for example, like the number one requirement is that the data has to be deployed on servers located in the US. Like it is a non-negotiable. I cannot tell them that look, how does it matter, you know, you have access to it, we give you all these consent forms. Their requirement is this and for the ones which are for some of the banking institutions that we work with, for them, they even say that we will, we don't want this on the cloud. We want this deployment to be on-prem. We want this deployment to be specifically on our servers, which we have hardened and we have complete control about. So I think that this will continue where a company is storing their data is going to become more and more mainstream because the moment you look at for example, even in the example of Facebook, there have been cases where governments have requested Facebook to take down certain content and then Facebook is not complying to that because they feel that no, this is not our policy. Now the moment you are actually moving that from the confines where you have more control, those kind of controls will increase for sure. So this is something which I definitely believe you know, as software nationalism continues, I hope that we can find a balance where we are able to ensure and safeguard the national security as well as not clamp down on businesses, legit businesses, which are trying to expand globally. And this is going to be just one point is that this is going to be a two-way street similar to like your visa arrangements, which are always reciprocal in nature. So today's Indian software exports, which are at, which are, which are what is has led the boom in our country are also have to be very careful that this is a double-edged sword. So it is very important that that we balance, we take a balanced approach towards how we look at data and software. So we'll move to another question. I again request that anyone needs to keep the questions coming, we'll take them in a bit. So, you know, the obviously one part of video conferencing is the professional use for business or maybe one-on-one interaction. But there's more that, that, that a person used to do in their, in their life, you know, they were, they were friendly things, they were parties, they were, you know, concerts, they were other things that would happen. So, you know, obviously I've seen, you know, there are dedicated apps which would like to call them, you know, being a party app, there is one in very famous in Europe. And obviously, you know, I personally attended a concert as I mentioned earlier that, you know, it was a different experience altogether. So, so do you think those things are also going to, you know, you know, get into these platforms and this could work like, you know, you know, friends across the location, you know, having a party or a concert happening in Boa, but I am watching it in here in Delhi and I know you're watching there in Bombay. Do you think these are the things which are another newer friends that you're going to see coming, going ahead? I think, yeah, I think, Anu, do you want to go first? Yeah, sure, sure. So, so I, so video conferencing is essentially a horizontal space, right? What we are looking at today, it's like it's akin to saying that, you know, Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Excel is a horizontal product, you can use it for so many different applications, right? Like, like right from keeping track of scores to, you know, obviously your business users of creating financial models, for example, video conferencing today is right now at a horizontal, it's a very horizontal space where, where people are now trying out different, different, many, many use cases on top of a horizontal product. So, so when you talk about, for example, and some of these examples, I believe may not, may not be natural fix, maybe ill fix, and are being forced into this just because of current situation. Those, and those will not continue on this kind of a platform in the future, you know, once that things go back to normal, which we hope is soon. But, but there are things which are the natural alignment, which those we are already seeing benefits of. So, like for example, we discussed about those meetings and all of those things, right? Like one example, one, one example, one example of a use case, which is being tried out heavily on video conferencing, which I believe is not a natural fit is education right now in its current avatar. You know, I have a, I have a one year old son, and you know, recently there was this class, which was a baby signing class that we have signed them up for, right? Just when we want some as parents, we want some activity during the lockdown. It's impossible. It's impossible to get a child and pay attention in front of a screen, right? So, those kind of cases that we are seeing across my friends, for example, who are small kids, and who are actually telling them to sit in front of a screen and recreate a classroom environment in its current form is broken. So, again, there's a lot of opportunity, you know, for, for startups like us, you know, to actually go out there, you know, and create some beautiful use cases, which actually start becoming natural alignments. If you talk about example of, you know, concerts, right? Like, sure, like, you know, the question I would say, I would say it's a little bit, it's not, it's not exactly good. My question is that if I'm talking about a concert, right, to have a concert live on a video conference, right? But let's be honest, right? You don't go to hear a concert, right? You go to, you go to be at a concert, you go to be present at a concert, I am at the concert, which because everything else around it is what makes the concert experience. So, I think some of these things will naturally play out. Some of these things right now are ill-pits, but some of these things definitely are going to be continued. I think the other thing what's happened over here is that because this has opened up the possibility for people who were earlier averse to video conferencing, I think that has been the biggest shift. So, one example of there is that, you know, like, it was amazing to see, you know, my mother on her own, you know, organize a Sena must they meet with all her cousins across the world and for them chatting into the late hours of the night, right? Like, earlier this was a concert which was alien to her. It would be a one-on-one phone call which she would do, but actually to get about doing that. So, that kind of consciousness has come, you know, throughout the folks. I think those trends will definitely accelerate and continue. I think what if we are trying to find one right answer here, what will be the right way, probably we will not justify the global audience we have here. So, let me give you two, three examples right now where the physical events happen, but large audience is remote. Let us say an IPL, let us say a Prime Minister's 15th August program or 26th January program or large deliveries and large speeches which happen. There have been always a very large number attending them remotely, but they were on TV. They were not attending on PC. They were not attending on their mobile phones via joining a live stream. There is a certain class of people who was completely deprived for example to attend. So, senior citizens or young children who would never go to a program or who would never, parents will never take to them an midnight concert. Now they are able to enjoy sitting at their home with their parents and this advantage has come. There is certainly large class I would agree with. Of course, there is a large audience which would like to go out and shake their legs and dance and meet people and hug each other, shake hands and all those things will be required. They are all very important things. They are all part of the entire entertainment and but I think the right now the need and timing is, as I said in my earlier, the first answer is the future is hybrid. Future is not about one technology. Future is about evolving technology, physical events, club with the virtual events and virtual events are going to be very powered with a lot of technology around. So, you might have Britney Spears performing in your drawing room with a hologram. Absolutely the same way and absolutely in your program and you may be having a real experience there. This is not absolutely as good experience as you go to LA and attend that. Obviously, this is not the experience you will get but you will get near to that. So, you can have the Zezzy music and see her and present and need not to sit in front of the screen. You can have more better projections which your PC or the projector will do. The future is very evolving because I definitely believe that this corona has provided us a lot of opportunities to think different ways, think different deliveries and it has broken the barrier that it has given the taste. So, you didn't have time from morning till night. You were stuck in your daily routine. Now, what has happened is you have no more birthday parties. You have no more to go. You have no more socializing, no movies, no pub, no drinking, no traffic. So, use everybody almost in the world has got three to four hours to himself. Everybody. And that's a huge manpower getting accumulated together to do something, do for the world. There will be some people who would like to relax and enjoy. This is also great. Let them do it. But there are people who are working together to do something which can make a huge difference. But better, you could imagine that the entire government are now running virtually. They are not traveling. Now the rallies, I would not be surprised when the rallies are also going to happen virtually with these hologram presents and people are joining in at their own comfort. So, you don't know to have two lakh people joining in under the one pandal and you are spending two lakhs people, thousand rupees per person. And this is the kind of money was being spent for a 45-minute talk. Now, actually, you could do a few lakh rupees and you could just do the worldwide transmission and you can deliver two million people and you can just deliver twice a day, twice a day, whatever number you want to do it because it is possible to be doing using these technologies. I guess the answer is very depending upon the need. And I am seeing this as uncle said, first class is obviously ill fit and even the concert is not a great idea. But I am seeing the colleges who are our customers and schools are running their show. Exams are happening. It is as good as school. Answer is no, obviously. It is not. Our children, my children are missing, meeting friends, meeting teachers. There is no peer learning happening. There is no communication, physical fitness is going away. All those things are not happening for sure. But this is, I think, the best alternate when we say. So, as Indians, we are all fighters. We know how to fight and survive. So, we have very skillar survival instinct. And I think we are able to use this technology to move further better than many countries and many cities, many situations around the world when I know, we are able to move in the right direction. So, as we move along, we will take some questions that have come to us. So, obviously, we talked about it. But, you know, Ayan has asked a question that, you know, the first and foremost thing is the mental blockage of video content that comes. So, you know, we need to break that barrier. I think we talked about it. I just said about it. And Anuj, you also talked about that, you know, your mother organizing a scene of a statement, you know, which is there. So, I think that mental barrier somehow, even in my family, I have seen this happening. So, do you think that that mental barrier, we have kind of, you know, that hurdle we have crossed already? Yeah, I mean, so we have broken that barrier so much that now is leading to fatigue. So, that is what's happened, right? Which is great. No worries, right? We will recalibrate ourselves and find out, okay, which is the natural flow, right? So, for example, while 100% of my meetings, you know, with my team, for example, was on video conferencing, we have now realized to find out where is the balance, right? Like, for example, if I need to call somebody and just check up and say, hey, you know, I'm wondering if this thing was done, you know, what is the status on that? I do not need to get in a video conference and get into that, right? I could just use a text message for that or even a regular phone call. So, I think that initial sort of, you know, obsession with everything on video has, I think, little bit has become more rational, which is good because that is the one which will be sustainable. So, the mental barriers have been broken. There are also technological challenges which we need to power through. So, for example, in our, in a country like India, or anywhere in the world, actually, I should not say India, but where data consumption and bandwidth are real problems, right? Sitting in metros and we have our high, you know, our fast broadband connection, we are able to have these very seamless connections. But it's like, you know, it's like, we've all been through the experience where the first, you know, seven, eight percent, even 10 people call, the first five minutes are only spent. Can you see me? Can you hear me? I can't hear you. I can't see you. Okay, I'll re-log in. I'll do this. My net is on work. You know, like a lot of this thing gets there, right? So, I think those kind of things sometimes also become real challenges. I think the next step is while the intent has been shown clearly by everybody, yeah, let's do it. Let's adopt this technology. The next step for technology also to make sure to facilitate these very seamless and smooth interactions where none of us are, you know, looking at others through choppy pixel blocks. You know, there's another question that I would want to think is from a counselor, she says that, you know, video making or live streaming apps are basically business of China, but our country barely has some that have that is original apps. Ajay, how would you respond to that? Would you repeat it again? Are your wife broken in between? Yeah, so she says that, you know, all these video apps and live streaming apps are basically all, you know, mostly Chinese products and India doesn't have anything, you know, original, but, you know, copies from there. So, they're just stimulating what they have done. So, how do you respond to that? And her name is? Her name is Akansha Danal. Okay. Akansha, could you please download video memes or say namaste, whatever comes first and try out yourself. And these are just two. There are, I would not be surprised if you start looking at Indian core Indian apps, you will get at least 20 good products out of India, not just one to everybody has doing time to do something for the particular audience. And if you are looking for a real video conferencing, it has it has nothing to with China. So video meat has no irons relationship with China, zero connect with China, there is no need to have China. This is completely homegrown. But actually, there is a lot which is happening on a technology word, which is there. And you can see that what we are able to do. You have password rooms, you have waiting rooms, you have skin share, you can share the videos, you can do encrypted calls, you can schedule them. And what we have also moved just for your knowledge in a video meet, we try to provide the room name, which you can remember forever, you need not to actually remember the alphanumeric numbers and the keys and the password, you can just say, like for example, I would have been great to host this an Indian platform that way we are doing it in zoom right now. So we could have been using some Indian product itself here and stream it to YouTube or Facebook, which we do meet could do very easily. I'm sure many products can do that. There is no rocket science much here. But the key is deliver it to YouTube with an Indian product and the product, like for example, you share the link with us for a price. I could not join this meeting without that link. Is this correct? I have to click that link. How about if I need to come to you every day, do I need to search for that? Or I just remember that I need to join the sort of room or entrepreneurs is the room name and the password is 1009 and then you have the waiting room and you can approve me if you want to. The idea is to get people away from what people have been remembering like zoom, which has become part of our life too much that we try to accept everything like zoom. Whereas we need to really think beyond what zoom does. Zoom has done a great job. We should accept that. There is no doubt about it. There is no doubt that word over zoom has supported the COVID time in a very big way. But there is a word outside zoom for sure. There is a word which people are able to deliver much more solution, much more better. And I think we as a video meet within the time frame we have achieved, I have not experienced many applications right now, but I intend to do so in next month that we are able to create experience which is much better even than zoom. And the kind of production it can deliver, the kind of quality it can deliver, nothing to install and we promote more and more secured communication. So Akansha, I would encourage you and all the audience to please try out Indian apps. There are plenty of them and if you have time to use video meet or say Namaste, try out both of them and see what works for you and there is a product for every customer out there. I think on a similar note, there is a question for you, Anuj. It's an anonymous question. It says that what makes the same Namaste different from other video conferencing apps? What would be the experience for the applications? So how do you differentiate really? Yeah, no, it's a great question. I think like every company is figuring out what their right to win is, what their niche is or what their market is. I think for us, it has been focused on user experience and ease of use. So our target is for people who want to get started with the video conference immediately. So we are not catering to a power user where somebody who is looking for very advanced features, our thought process is to keep it very simple and so if people want to start a video conferencing like our aim is to have one click video conferencing. So somebody wants to get into video conference or start. It's very, very quickly. They can get started very easily integrated with their mobile messaging applications like WhatsApp and all and they can get moving on that. So that's sort of where our core focuses. If we are looking at in terms of differentiation from say corporate solutions like your Microsoft Teams or any of these, for example, then over there the difference tends to be in terms of how the user persona that we are building for. So we are looking at when we are building this, we are making sure that anybody who has not even had a prior experience for video conferencing is able to get started. And the reason for this is that the reason why we came to this also was because leading up to the days before we actually developed this, I remember as I'm sure all of us in tech roles, we tend to become, we are the default customer support person for all our family and friends. So I got a lot of calls from people who were like, I am trying to log on to this webinar. So there was a lot of that happening. And so I realized that it doesn't need to be so complex. And so that was sort of where the guiding principle for us was and that is what you will see reflected throughout the journey when you use Anamaste. There is one person who wants to ask a question, Vanita Bhanu. Can we have her audio please? Vanita Bhanu. Vanita, you can ask a question, unmute yourself. Vanita, can you unmute yourself and ask the question? Yeah. I just wanted to ask about a few video applications. Like I have seen, we can share the screen. So I mean, we have been trying how we can do that. Okay. So you're talking about any particular app which we use? Yeah. I'm talking about the Video Meet app which has been launched by Hikibeta. Yeah. So you have video, screen share, even the audio share, even the screaming to Facebook or YouTube. You can do all that stuff, your conferences and webinars, no problem. And that lack of people can go there. Okay. Okay. We will be just about to finish out of time. So, you know, before, you know, anything else I asked. So, you know, what has been the funniest meme that you have seen about the video conferencing and video conferencing apps till now? The funniest meme that I have seen? Because I have seen many, you know, I have seen many. And, you know, since I do webinar every week, my friends, I think they like to send me, they like to tease me by sending me those memes. So, what has been the funniest meme that you have seen? I don't know about the funniest meme, but I've been joking about this myself that earlier when people would show up late for meetings, they would say, I think the most overused word is unmute yourself. I think this is the word of the decade now. So, this has been used so much unmute, unmute yourself, mute yourself. I think these two words are overly used now and every, you end up using it 100 times in a conference. Okay. So, we're just about to, you know, run out of time. So, just last thoughts on one thing, and then we'll wrap it up. Is that what happens after post-COVID to these teleconferencing apps? Where do we see this video conferencing apps? Yeah, sure. So, like has been the theme in this conversation, which has been very realistic where we've spoken about, you know, the ground realities and not spoken about video conferencing as being a panacea for everything and all. I think what will happen is the good parts, the good elements of what video conferencing has showed is potential will become stronger, ill fit use cases will go away. So, we will still be, you know, I still be, I hope that we will see Britney Spears in person and not in our living room in a hologram. And so, I think that's sort of where the future lies, where we look at, you know, video conferencing being a strong toolkit in companies arsenal. I think COVID or no COVID, video conferencing or virtual contactless conversations and innovations will become more and more part of our life. And people are, it's not just events. People are going to run very cost effective way, their education, their hospitals, their companies, getting away from offices, run the teams in a most cost effective way. There is a very large sense of hiring remote manpower now. The psyche, the employee office, and you could actually hire a person in Israel and get him to the task because now you are equipped to do that. So, I think video conferencing is one tool and there are many tools which are going to come in the days to come. We will talk about it sort of at some part of time. We have a launch a new product called Vee Now, which is a virtual office. So, I can actually bring the entire office at one page and that's all conferencing can come continue, customers can come, vendors can come, all that stuff. So, this is one type which we are trying to do, but there is a lot which is happening around that. So, I mean COVID or no COVID, this is likely to stay. We are hoping, all of us are hoping to meet for sure. And a lot of people are taking a risk to have parties and go around still today. So, this is not going to go away, physical meetings and travel and partying and tourism and going around and looking at right places, movies, all those things are going to be there, but definitely some part of our life is definitely being taken over by video conferencing or virtual tools. Thank you gentlemen so much and thank you to our attendees. It was really wonderful to have this conversation to understand what exactly going around the minds of the people who are making us still survive in this very tough condition. Thank you Anuj and thank you Ajay and thank you other founders and people who have made this possible, but obviously we're reaching to go out and meet people, but I'm sure Ajay and Ajay and Ajay are hybrid models where both in person meeting and video conferencing will be part of our lives. So, hope to see you guys again and thank you so much for being here. Thank you very much. Thank you Saurabh. Thank you very much. Bye bye.