 It's the breakfast and plus CV Africa. We look at the illegal charges and customer deficits known in January 2020, lawmakers in the bid to stop the indiscriminate imposition of charges by banks. The Central Bank of Nigeria issued a guide to charges by banks or the financial institution and non-bank financial institution stating the approved charges to be imposed by the DMBs. The House is concerned that despite the guide issued by the CBN, some banks still deduct outrageous amount of money from customers and the guys of bank charges with different descriptions. Now the deductions are already covered by this Central Bank of Nigeria, approved monthly amount maintenance fee, mounting to double deductions over time. Now in February 2020, 26 to be precise, the House resolved to investigate illegal and excessive charges being imposed on account holders by deposit money banks and banks as well. The House of Representatives on Wednesday, just yesterday, mandated its committee on banking and currency to investigate the alleged excessive charges on banks' transaction imposed by this deficit money banks, also known as commercial banks in Nigeria. Meanwhile, in August 2021, the Central Bank of Nigeria has disclosed at the time that so far they recovered 89.2 billionaire excess and illegal charges slammed on customers by banks in Nigeria. We do have a guest joining the conversation this morning. He's a financial analyst and expert. Shagun Shropitan is good to have you join us this morning. So let's get straight to it. How can one identify these illegal charges that has been mentioned? A lot of persons are not in the know. I mean, I will take myself for an example. So you see some charges, maybe sometimes you do pay attention to it. But how can you identify that banks are making illegal charges from your account? Right. I think it's important to say that using the word illegal might be a stretch. I'm not very sure that any bank would, you know, remember that the banks are licensed by the CBN and they are regulated. And they are, you know, the banking sector is one of the most regulated sectors in most economies and Nigeria is not an exception. So to say that there are illegal bank charges might be to stretch what may be happening in some banks to a certain degree. What you might have, though, is banks perhaps pushing the limits of what maybe the bank has tariff has stipulated as acceptable charges for the various services that the banks render. And in some cases, maybe charging an above market for interest rates, you know, and things like that. Some of the examples that the honorable representatives cited are not illegal. You know, so I think that the public, the banking industry needs to do a bit more public enlightenment and explanation so that people will understand what's going on with their accounts. But that's not to say that some funny stuff don't happen. So we shouldn't call it illegal because we're trying not to say, because I mean, if you we laid a background now and following that background, there was an investigation that was made in 2021. And of course, you have the CBN saying they recovered 89.2 billion error. This way legal, you know, charges that were put out. Maybe we're just having a problem with the word illegal. But what is not, if you have the CBN giving a guide as to what should be deducted and if you act otherwise, how do you classify that particular action? We've had cases where people say that they actually carried transaction. And then they find that 9,500 different amounts and figures. And the reason why this investigation is going on, it's because the outcry has been ongoing for a long time. Now looking at the background as well, you also want to agree with me that this is not the first time that the House of Representative or the lawmakers are asking for probe and investigation. And so right now the question would be to what extent is this? But the truth is, if there's a guide to as to, you know, the regulation and how much is desorption should be made. And this banks are acting contrary to that. Then it is illegal. Well, so one of the things, for example, that some consultants do is to help ordinary Nigerians corporate or individual bank customers to check transactions on their accounts and determine if there have been excess bank charges. Now, no, excess, not illegal. So that's the thing, that's just the difference I'm trying to make. So when you say it's illegal, it sounds as if the banks are committed a crime. No, they are well within their right to charge for the services that they render. But, you know, those charges must be commensurate, you know, proportional to the quantum of service that they render to the customer. So there are situations where I think the easiest example will be interest charges on debit balances in account. Now, I say debit balances because sometimes some customers account would go into debit negative balances without that customer necessarily having an official approved and accepted facility loan on that account. Now, when that happens, the bank has a lot of leeway as to what they charge. So some banks would apply something, they call it default rates and it can be as high as 1%, 1% maybe per day or 1% flat, you know, they just determine what they want to do. So what the professional, you know, auditors, financial consultants will do for you is to look into those types of charges and then communicate with the banks and show them what the bank has started, if a set is acceptable, you know, and then you can take the conversation on from there. So yes, there are quite a number of charges that happen on bank accounts that can be contested. And I think that is the point that needs to be made rather than probing and trying to paint the scenario as being one where something criminal or illegal, you know, is going on. I don't think the public good is being served, you know, with that narrative. I think the correct narrative is to say to people, you have to be vigilant, like every other thing that you do. Look, this is your money, you work hard for it. So when you spend it through a bank, scrutinize your bank statements, make it just a habit at the end of each month, except if, you know, you ask maybe you're the turnover, the money that you're moving through your account is, you know, not particularly significant. If you're spending 500,000 to a million, 2 million, 3 million per month on your account, then my suggestion is please review your statements, because some funny stuff might have happened, you know, some little charges, some little fees would have been, you know, applied. And some of them might not be legal, but you should ask questions. Because sometimes you ask those questions and you find that, you know, maybe those charges were not justified and they can be reversed. Okay, Mr. Shopito, are you, it seems you're saying that these are not to be classified as illegal because the, are you saying because it's a guide, a guide from the central bank, not necessary any law that should make this illegal. And also, let's look at the fact that the guide was created in 2004, updated in 2013, 2017, and now the current one, which is 2020. And you have, you know, a lot of things setting like inflation, devaluation and all that depreciation of the Nairas as against the US dollar. And are these factors that should have been considered by the National Assembly in the Central Bank of Nigeria in trying to address the issue in 2022? Absolutely. So, look, I can't overemphasize this. There's a bank tariff and I can tell you for free that no bank dares, they don't dare, they don't dare go outside of what is stipulated in that document and start applying arbitrary charges on accounts. If that happens and a customer reports that situation to the Consumer Protection Department, the CPD of the Central Bank, the bank will be penalized. The bank will refold that money and they will pay penalty. And sometimes, you know, they get threatened with even as far as license, you know, like license suspension and that kind of stuff. If it's a serious enough offense, you know, so, you know, I think our politicians sometimes just play to the gallery with these things. Honestly, I don't think they're doing the public any good. Let's educate the public. Let's get everybody to be vigilant to protect their money. And so before we ended, you know, because we're about to end it. So I'm wondering if there's anywhere that stipulates that 9,500 should be charged on a particular transaction or 10,000 error when you're making transaction on your apps. I'm just I'm just really trying to say because you already the way you're putting it, it sounds like maybe Nigerians, that has never happened. Maybe it's just a story because we know that, you know, they put out the rates and say for a certain amount, 15 error, you have 100 narrow, you have 20 narrow, depending on, you know, the amount of transaction that you're being, you're carrying out. But we have seen this outcry and it's not one and including the lawmakers themselves. I mean, so it wouldn't the lawmakers themselves in this recent investigation and panel and query that they have asked, that they're asking that you should be carried out. They also have experienced it as well. So it's not just the fact that people are just coming to just say, we understand that there are charges. But how do you explain the fact that you're being charged 50,000, you wake up and see 20,000 out of your account? How do you explain all of that? Exactly. I mean, that's the point. That's the precise point I'm trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is when you see those charges, ask questions. Just, you know, a lot of us don't complain. Write a letter to your bank and copy CPD at CBN.gov. CPD at CBN.gov. It's an email address. And I tell you that that email address is very well run by the central bank. You get a response almost immediately. You get a response. So if you see a charge that you don't understand, just complain. Just send an email to your bank, right? Copy the CPD if you like. Copy the Federal Consumer Protection Council as well. You know, we don't do these things. And then we come to the public and we say that, you know, something funny has happened. When in truth, it's perhaps it's something that was legal. So what I'm saying, for example, people complain about the account maintenance charge. Or sometimes the ATM maintenance charge, you know, this, you know, there's something they call it. First of all, those things are. We're sorry. We'll have to pull the plugs at this time, Mr. Shepard. I'm really sorry. But you've given us fantastic analysis so far. We hope to have you again because this issue is still fresh and there's a lot more to talk about. We appreciate your time. It's always a pleasure. Thanks for having me. Well, and it's time to call it a wrap on the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. It's been a really, really interesting edition of the program today. Definitely. If you missed out on any part of the conversation, it's all right to follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram with Plus TV Africa and Plus TV Africa Lifestyle. Many thanks for watching. I am Merci Boko. And I'm Kofi Bartels. We'll return tomorrow morning. But please stay with Plus TV because we have more ahead.