 Hello and welcome. At a time when non-Metros tier two and three cities are contributing to India's economic resurgence for the pandemic, we thought of conducting a discussion on the changing consumer behavior and media landscape of the Hindi heartland, which is step further in understanding the consumers from Bharat, India's growth epicenter. And joining me on this panel are Jaylala, CEO Zenith. Hi, Jay. Jay, you're on mute. I also request everybody to unmute themselves. Hey, hi, hi. Hi, Neeta, how are you? Great, great. We also have Rajiv Jain, Vice President, Marketing, DS Group. Hi, Rajiv. Hi, Neeta. Hi, how are you? Great. And also joining us is Mithesh Desai, Head Sales Excellence and Agency Partnership at HD Media. Hi, Neeta and thank you very much for bringing this out today. Thank you. A big welcome to all of you and hope you're all excited about this discussion. Absolutely. So my first question is to you, Jay. You know, there was a time when advertising on TV and other mass media was largely kept in made keeping in mind the urban audiences. More spending power, more attuned to newer trends, better accessibility to new and improved products kind of made them an ideal audience for big-ticket marketers. But have things changed majorly since the pandemic? So, Neeta, what I would say is that I wouldn't just attribute it to the pandemic, but it's been a trend which has been going on for the last probably five, seven years, where the focus is definitely shifting to the Hindi outlet. And so, again, like, India is basically what we call it as we've divided India into two parts. One is the India, which is the urban India. And second is what we call it as Bharat, you know, the essence of Indian India. A lot of marketing spends is being focused now towards Bharat and in between, which is between India and Bharat, where we've not still coined a name for that, but we call it the Rurban. So, that's an area which has been of immense focus. And it's growing because that's where the real next phase of India's growth is going to come. So, it's not that urban is all sort of maxed out, urban continues to be a group provider. There is huge potential in the urban markets, but now with the accessibility, with earlier it used to be completely media dark and we used to just talk about things like wall paintings, et cetera, to reach out to these audiences. But things have changed, things have changed. With the advent of free TV, so free dish and therefore you have TV channels which reach out to them. You obviously had print which was reaching out and now with the advent of digital. So, we've seen the maximum growth which has happened in the digital penetration is within this area. So, it becomes a quite a lucrative market now to reach out to the consumers there. Okay, and rural India partly question the consumer goods sector during the first phase. That's a bit plus there. Yeah, that's right. So, obviously for the FMCG, it was a big, big push and it continues. So, while we've seen from the urban side, we've seen a huge growth in commerce, but our belief is that commerce will continue to grow and it's a pie out of a smaller pie but the real large pie still continues to be the Kirana stores and that's where the rural markets, et cetera, make a lot of sense. Okay, and let me come to Rajiv. Now, in a broader sense of the term and not specifically to DS Group, do you think India's consumption story is moving from the metros in tier one towns to tier two, three towns now? And what would you say are the major drivers for this? See, that's very true that India's story is moving towards that tier two, tier three rural areas. I will divide it in three classifications basically, that the towns with the 10 lakh plus population, the towns with 1 to 10 lakh and the towns below 1 lakh. The penetration in the 10 lakh plus population of any product is already quite high. It doesn't mean that there won't be further growth there. Definitely there also, the newer segment, the new strategy we are working it out. But definitely the penetration of any product, the more we go down in the population status is relatively lesser. So definitely it gives more avenues for any marketer to push down the product in those areas for the higher growth. The reason that growth drivers for this may be various rather. Number one, that disposable income of rural and tier three towns population also increasing. Number two, that digital is also playing very important role. That more and more rural audience, they are at opt-in at digital now. That before, OTT now is also heavily penetrated. And before OTT, I will say the satellite channel as such was penetrating a lot in the rural area or may be a three town. All those things raise the expiration level of the consumers. When they have the expiration, when they have the income level also and where the companies are reaching to them in fact. Like I rightly said, it's not the phenomenon during the pandemic. It started before that, but pandemic further accelerated because during the pandemic, the effect of pandemic was a bit lesser in the rural areas in fact. So many traders focused there also, which gave further push to the products in those area. The problem has been that making the products available in the rural area, that cost is not so is cheap of distribution in those area. So many companies have come out that who are sort of aggregators, that they have been highlighting the products of the different companies and distributing the rural area. And with the technology, with the digital transparency and all that, the companies also have been able to see where my product is going and all that. So all those things are fueling the growth in the rural areas and pushing the companies to make them move more towards the areas which are less than population, one lakh rural areas. Okay. Let me come to the platform side. HT Media, Mitesh has properties in print, digital, activations, etc. Hindustan is of course a leading Hindi newspaper. But I'm sure you've been observing the consumer very closely. Tell us how has the media consumption habit of the consumer in the Hindi heartland changed? Yeah, I mean, thanks Neeta for asking this question. Typically what used to happen is, previously what India does today as Jay put out India versus Bharat Bharat used to do it tomorrow, right? But not anymore, right? What we are seeing is the trends are moving on faster and sometimes in parallel. So it's no longer that we are looking at, you know, watching what the metro towns or the India is doing and then replicating it somewhere else but the trends are moving faster. In terms of media consumption, we are seeing that the Hindi heartland is evolving significantly. So on the surface, the trends are largely in line with any major metro. So we are seeing increased adoption of digital platforms and improved digital news. Entertainment platforms as both the panelists have brought out such as social media. All this is essentially aided by low bandwidth costs and cheaper and more powerful mobile devices. Today, a chair smartphone costs around 5,000, roughly give or take, which is the cheapest smartphone. And we know that the bandwidth costs are increasingly coming down and have come down the other and so on so forth. And what has changed is, you know, the COVID situation has only accelerated the adoption of digital platforms as it changes, you know, not only the way people consume media but also they bring digital platforms into various walks of life such as education, shopping, content and entertainment consumption. However, what we saw was the fundamental need space for news and information of these markets essentially remain the same. And make no mistake that this belt turns out the most number of IS aspirants, engineers in the country besides being home to 50% of the population type. So what we saw was markets like UP, Bihar, Jharkhand which were relatively media dark and therefore print media always played a significant role in the way Hindi, Heartland has consumed news and information. The belt was always hungry for high quality news because of their aspiration to be in touch with politics, global news and in general knowledge as we saw, right? They are like very progressive in their thinking. They really want to crack the IS exams. They really want to crack those engineering exams and so on so forth. So taking cues from that at HD media we've kept pace with evolving consumer behaviors and evolved both print and digital platforms with features which are very, you know, intuitive and actually we've been inspired by the way the digital media is consumed whether the social media or anything else. So for example, we bought in new features like Pramukh Panch, right? Which taps into the snacking behavior of news consumption. So we curate the top five news of the day and summarize this on the front page for on-the-go consumption. We've also introduced QR codes so the newspaper doesn't have to be only the morning affair as new and more information gets filed in whether it's elections, Ukraine war, et cetera. You know, people are hungry for updates. What's happening more? So, you know, this keeps the news fresh and so, you know, our newspaper doesn't have to be only a morning affair, right? There are 30-second news sections on every page. So we said, let's summarize the page into a 30-second section which can be read and anybody who wants to double click can go on further. There are news with links to video content. So video I think there is of course the troika of video voice and vernacular. So we've seen how do we adopt that into our product as well. So there's a strong push on video content as well. And, you know, the way we consume news on WhatsApp or any other messaging platform. So we've also curated shareable info cards to tap into the rising needs. So both our product, print and distal products are keenly following the consumer behavior and trends and adopting this to suit the new consumer behavior. Okay. And Rajiv, as a marketer, do you think these kind of innovations is something that's really going to benefit you in the long run in reaching out to the HSM market? Of course, that's seen nowadays that media is too cluttered that innovations are very, very important. Number two, like all the traditional media, they have to bring in the technology aspect in fact. Nowadays, consumers want more personalization, more experiential and more engagement in fact. And that is the only way that the traditional media can bring some freshness in the media landscape. And the brands will also like to engage with those kind of innovations and activation and all that. And like what happened that nowadays that people don't want to wait for an SDM or need in fact to pick up the newspaper, to wait for the news because they have got everything like live and kind of news on their mobiles and all that. And the detailed news, they get all the news platforms and all that. But till the morning, when the news were about to come, everybody is fully aware of each and everything. So I think this kind of initiative from, in just a time of the QR code, it's quite appreciated in fact and this will bring the more live news kind of thing. So this market is always looking for some innovative solutions in fact because otherwise that the brand will be lost somewhere in the too cluttered media in fact and only they know engagement or innovation. And you know increasingly looking at properties which can blend more than one medium together to kind of get the message across, is it? Yeah, integration is always important in fact because the consumer doesn't consume the brand communication in one medium in fact. And if it consumes one medium, the amplification may not be too high. If it consumes on the different media, the amplification is always very high because the purpose of that media communication is the brand communication is that the purpose is that the consumer should be fully engrossed in your message and ultimately it should lead to some the trial, it should lead to some engagement, it should lead to some further final action. So when there are multiple touch points, when there is integration of various media, the amplification or message will also be higher. Okay, interesting. And I'd also like to spend a little more time on the classification of the profile of the this consumer in the HSM market today. Like, you know, Mitesh said that, you know, they're still the IPS aspirants, but I want to get an understanding from Jay. You know, you are an expert who guides the advertisers on their spends. Please throw some light on the shifts and aspirations and behavior of consumers in this in the heart. And how in turn it affects their media consumption. So I think the first factor is when you look at this consumer, he has a little more time in his hands. So I'm just trying to differentiate between the consumer and the urban versus the consumer from the smaller towns. So one is time is of essence. I think that's a big differentiating factor. They have time on their hands as compared to the urban. There's less time spent on community. So what happens essentially is that what we call classically, what we call it as appointment viewing, you know, and I'm not just restricting this to TV, but I'm just saying anything with an appointment where you have a fixed time to do certain things is more a classical feature here in the rural areas rather than in the urban. So when it comes to newspaper, there is a certain time to read the newspaper. There is a larger hours of TV viewing which is happening. Consumption of digital is high. So even before this entire boom of the internet, what we were seeing is that in the smaller towns, obviously people didn't have those classy smartphones, but there were these certain chips which were available, which would come preloaded with movies. You could purchase it for 10 rupees to 20 rupees and all that, and you could get 10 movies at a go. And these were all edited movies. They would edit the songs, et cetera and all that, and that would be there. And that was being consumed largely. Now what has happened is with the rise of short content videos and all that, that consumption is going high. So one is obviously it differs from state to state, from region to region, but the big point is that media plays a very big role. Because there is time for consumption, it's not. Like what is happening, what we see in the urban is that there is this extreme rise of cord cutters. And basically they're not watching TV, they're not reading newspapers, they're not listening to radio, and they're getting to everything which is subscription based. And from an advertising perspective, it becomes very, very difficult to reach this consumer. And this consumer is also a very high-profile consumer. So this is where you want to target most of your products. It's becoming very, very difficult. On the other hand, we don't have that. So when you look at on the rural side, it's not subscription based, it's more advertising based. So it's more advertiser friendly. They are more willing to look at new products, consume more ads and all that. So there is a polarization and that plays a very important role. What we try and do is depending again from brands to brands, there are two clear dictates which we try and raise it to our clients. One, the same communication will not work. So what you're trying to communicate to the urban does not work there. You have to customize. We are used to having a single TVC or a single form of communication which just goes all across. So that is something which we are trying to use, use local celebrities, use local stars which are more popular amongst the rural areas then. So that's one. The second is that, again, it depends on brand to brand, but there are certain brands where up till now, what happens in a classical media planning is that you make a plan for national, you make a plan for all India and then you start having little inputs for regional and rural markets. Our advice is that given the way India is, given the focus which it has, India is a very regional market. India is absolutely regional. And we are trying to, in certain cases, do what I call it as bottom-up planning. You first feed your regional market, you first feed your rural markets and then see if there is a need to go from a national select channel because it's so fragmented and we are seeing markets like UP now, markets like Maharashtra and all where there is a lot of inputs which is happening. It's completely differentiated. What works in Bombay does not work in rest of Maharashtra. So these are some of the factors which come in. All this is keeping consumer at the center. So you look at what the consumer wants and then try and target. So it is quite challenging. It's not easy. It is quite challenging. But that's some of the things which we are trying to do. Okay. Interesting. You mentioned that the ads cannot be the same as what is fed to urban audience. Mitesh, I'd like to ask you where you see a lot of ads coming in with your paper, the digital, the website, the app. The way the marketer is reaching out to the audiences in HSM markets. Is it very different from how it is in the urban Indian, how they're reaching out to the urban Indian consumer today? And even profile-wise, these are people who have very global aspirations. I mean, at least in the thought process. And they want to lead an urban lifestyle. So are we still categorizing them as people who are looking at affordable solutions who may need value for money or they've graduated people who are splurging heavy? Yeah, I think India as such is a value-conscious market, right? And therefore, when we talk about differentiation, it all depends upon identifying what really matters to the consumers. So for example, to me, a Netflix that now they've reduced the cost, I forget, but let's say 600 rupees and multi-devices may make sense. But for somebody who is value-conscious, can look at only a single usage mobile device and pay about 150 rupees, for example, for the consumption of content. So it's the same proposition or I would say it's the same content which is dissected very differently to appeal to a value-conscious consumer versus for example, I mean in general, India is a value-conscious. So it all depends upon what is the need state that the market here is addressing and therefore the communication essentially moves in that direction. Plus there are so many different, I would say so many different variations or product variations. So for example, a two-wheeler is not just the two-wheeler across the ITVS, Apache probably may be very well accepted in the urban markets, but then there are different versions where people are seeking more value of mileage, more value of cost consciousness, et cetera. So the communication depends upon the product which is offering and more often the case there is a differentiation in the product itself which lends to a differentiation in communication. So what element of a product needs to be highlighted is very different in the Hindi market because the value that consumers seek is very different. Okay, let me ask Rajiv now. DS do present to confectionary beverages, food, pan masala, what else, a lot of things. How different is it be you advertise to urban consumers a few years ago as opposed to how you're doing it now and what are the nuances that have changed, if at all? See, not in DS context, I will say in general impact. See that it's very important for any communication that consumer should be able to relate with the come a brand impact, right? Because ultimately it's a matter of the consumer that what is the objective of any communication. That we have to create a love for the brand, we have to create a loyalty, we have to create a sort of trust factor impact. That trust factor comes like when you speak in his language as like Muteh said, it's a matter of the need state impact that we are addressing to consumer impact. If you have to build a trust factor, but the ICD general human habit, we are comfortable with the person who speaks our language, who speaks as per our culture and our lifestyle and all that. Their product category is very very aspirational kind of thing. Then definitely that I have to show in a more urbanized manner in the rural area also. So that national level of rural audience is enhancing. But if the product category not so aspirational kind of thing, it's more of a more functional product kind of thing and all that. So there is a matter of that I would build a trust in the rural audience. Then I have to play with the culture of that consumer. And I have to speak in his language basically. So for his mobile phone, in an urban setting, it may be very aspirational kind of thing. I have to flash it out and I have to put it on the table. They have a kind of handset I am getting and all that. In rural where it's very very functional and really more of the Hindi audience impact. Then even the keyboard will be in Hindi impact. Like various smartphones, they have the Hindi keyboards. Similarly, like if you remember the campus of America impact. So when they went to rural area with the 5 rupees bottle impact, many years back, maybe I have been to the 20s back. So Amit had shown a typical rural person impact. Even the stripping of the rural setting, the setting of the rural, the complete articulation of the rural. Because they have to sell the product at 5 rupees and they have to show that you can relate with the brand. It created sort of a trust factor and comfort factor in the rural audience towards the brand impact. At times that marketer, they have to trust my their communication. As per the taste and the lifestyle and the behavior of the rural audience. At times it may not be required. But I feel if the product is aspirational, perhaps that urban aspirational level will raise the aspiration in the rural audience also. If the product is not too lifestyle and aspirational oriented, we have to just trust that it's a functional product. Then definitely you have to see his need state which you are addressing, his culture codes, his imprints which you are addressing. And accordingly you have to tailor made your communication. One more thing that rural audience, they are slightly like income level is still lower in fact. So they believe more in the affordability in fact. And they are a bit more conservative in this very meditation. So many companies, they launch the smaller SKU pet for the rural audience. For instance, sometimes in the 80s, like even get a lawn shift shampoo. And when the women used to use shikha tie for washing their hair, there was no concept of shampoo in the rural audience. So that time they have to launch sachets. So their trials are generated. When the trials are generated, then the consumers immediately jump to the budget S3 also. Even from Mela, they are double distributed sachets of automos. In fact, just price consumer, rural consumer thing, for Hindi back or consumers to try the product in fact. So marketer, they have to customize their not only communication, they are offering their price point, their features of the product as the rural audience. Interesting. Chik is a beautiful example, I think. Jair also like to ask you, but have we overall reached that urban messaging for the Hindi pet? Are we still going with that or we moved away from that? No, I think the urban messaging, like what I was trying to explain earlier. The urban messaging, like typically having the, when you have a rural ad, you show a rural setup, you try to appeal to them in a certain form of view. Or when we address the rural audience now, are we looking at them as more global citizens? More people who can kind of fit in with just the others. So I think this is something what Rajiv just spoke earlier. So there are two ways. One is trying to make an aspiration and then you try to bring them to that level. Otherwise it's still, I wouldn't call it a setting or something like that, but I would more talk about using the same lingo. The lingo is quite different when you go down to the rural areas and it differs from area to area. So that is a challenge. The celebrities are different. So when you're trying to build that local connect, the celebrities are pretty different. So in the communication, these things start playing a very important role. So how well can you connect with them? See finally, again, the belief is that every brand tries to communicate with the consumer to make them feel that I am for you. That's where I think this makes a huge difference. If you're going to communicate in a standard format, it might not cut through because most of the creators, most of the stuff which we've created now is more open. We've been brought up in a certain way and we continue to sort of follow that. But this requires a shift and there are a lot of local celebrities which probably we've not even heard them in the urban market. We do not even think that they are big in the urban market, but they are really big when it comes to rural areas. So that's where the localized connect is extremely important. I wouldn't say that the communication needs to always have a rural setting but it's more about having a more connect with the consumer which is the key to start talking to. But are there advertisers today who traditionally focused on urban audiences for decades? But over the past few years, you've kind of seen them change their strategy, dedicate a big chunk of their spends on rural tier 2, 3 towns. No, absolutely. So again, I'll give an example of Maggie, which is one of our clients. So while they have creators which cater to basically North India and that's something which they use pretty proactively but they have made specific communication for the rural areas. So there are a lot of challenges which occurs. In rural area, there is what you call a lot of fakes. So for them, every yellow pack is a Maggie pack. How do you change that mindset? How do you get them to realize that this is what it is? While in urban, you need not do that. That's some of the things which you've taken for granted. The second thing is that getting local connect, which I was talking about earlier. So Maggie uses local celebrities in these areas, local festivities. So that is something which we try and use to bring a connect to this consumer versus trying to just use the mass advertising creative which we use. So while that definitely you can't really sort of segment and dissect it when it comes to TV, so the consumer might see both, but there is a creative which goes specifically for that specific location audience. So that's what a lot of brands are doing that to sort of cater to it. So while you have a national creative which goes across, but there are specific creatives directed to them. Mitesh, you're doing a fabulous job with your revamp. The innovations that you're bringing about is really going to help bridge the gap. You also, if I'm not wrong, help create ads with advertisers for HSM audiences because you know them best. You know, what are these, can you elaborate on how you're doing it and how you catch the pulse of the audience better than the list? So great question. In fact, what we have is actually curating what we call as a mini agency or a communication arm within our own, within our own businesses. So we have something called as a branch studio. The branch studio essentially understands again everything right from what the communication is about, who are the audiences. We do our own primary research, dipstick in the rituals and beliefs of the audiences. So Jay brought up very interesting concept of Maggie and you need to talk about the fake differentiation of a fake versus original in certain areas of the country, whereas those communication may not be relevant elsewhere. So understanding those rituals and beliefs and then creating concepts and creating messaging right from ground up. So we've done some great work in actually looking at democratizing the financial services. We've done great work with the Abdullah group with our web series called the Friday finance, which is essentially identifying rituals, beliefs and blending the core communication within that. We've also morphed ourselves from not just a print company, but to be able to deliver brand solutions across the funnel, which is we know that brands today are looking to partner with platforms which give them a full funnel source from creating awareness to building concentration and driving sales and not just one, and one media like just a print can't contribute to all and therefore it has to be a mix. So for example, when we are talking about reach and impact are critical elements to drive awareness and not just overall reach, but also reach within relevant brand audience cohorts is important. So brands are looking to platforms to get them solves for reaching more accurately to some of the cohorts that they are talking about. Brands are also seeking more accountability by measuring the awareness lifts through their reach and impact campaigns. So that is something which is an additional layer on top of our ability to connect and not just reach, it's essentially the whole package that we stitch together. So also again, when we talk about print versus digital at HD, we are actually investing significantly in building the customer data platform. So we call it CDP and offer our clients reliable first party audience solutions to measure brand impact. We have partnered with the likes of Kantar and Nielson to bring cutting edge brand solutions to our clients. And again, we believe connecting with content is critical element of engaging and building consideration for our brand. So we were always local, right? We know what works in a local geography given our connect with them through our newspapers. And we know that brands are looking for local expertise of these media houses to create relevant contextual opportunities and brand integration. So for example, the Hindi Heartland is no stranger to large format brand activations like Mela's on-growing outreach programs such as Nukkadnatar, 3DL fairs and many more. And brands are looking to partner with platforms which enable on-ground presence with a one-to-one dialogue with the consumers. We have something called the Anoki Club which is a unique platform which we've created that enables brands to reach out to the progressive women readers and build a one-to-one connect to drive awareness trials as well as use this platform to interact with them and actually get brand feedback. So a lot of stuff that we do and the communication we help build our solutions are very local and because we know the nuances, while we have several editions of our papers, we have several hundred sub-editions which means that it's not just a Lucknow edition, it's a Luckin-Poor-Keri and beyond that what a Piliwit edition is essentially to understand nuances that because every 100 kilometers you go, the dialect changes, the again, ritual beliefs gradually change and we understand that and that's where we bring those expertise with of course the element of reach, trust everything that goes on into the brand to enable our clients to reach those, their media and brand objectives very well. So you're basically customizing as per the need of that particular advertiser? Absolutely, not just customizing as well so while the propositions are customized, the way in which we communicate is fairly localized to what that region or geography understands in the best manner. My next question is to you and Jay. It's kind of building up from what Jay spoke about like Nestle is spending a lot of money on rural advertising. Similarly, are we also seeing brands which are not traditionally from that space, maybe like the New Age companies, gaming, Mojti platforms, digital payment tabs because of the proliferation of internet also tapping the rural audiences. I mean, we just released this report with ESP properties which said that there has been a 200% increase in gaming in small towns and if they're consumers of gaming they can also be tapped to as consumers to advertise to. So I want to understand which of these New Age brands that are coming and tapping these types of products. Jay, you can go first and then I can come with you. See, it's basically from a New Age perspective media is one which I think has really penetrated well in these areas and then when you look at so one is obviously the payment, gateways, payment tabs. This is something which is gaining momentum. The other one is education. Access to certain amount of education knowledge which was not available earlier. It was a big challenge. So these are some of the things, financial apps, fintech apps. These are places where there has been an increased sort of penetration. And it's the amount of time, let's say urban took to grow this. These markets are growing much, much faster. So the adaption of let's say digital OTT in India in the urban markets versus the rural, the rural is gaining much faster because the access and everything is much more ready for them. And even for the marketeers they've learned that how should we sort of approach these rural markets. So there is a growth which is happening. Digitization has like we discussed this earlier. What pandemic has done is that it's brought forward 10 years. What we used to think we could do in the next five years, seven years, 10 years has happened now. It has forced us to do that. And that's been one of the key game changers for us. And that's what has happened. So when you look at the traditional, yes, FMCG is making a big in road. In fact, like the example which I was giving of Maggie, all popular brands are fakes. And that's something. So when you go there, you suddenly realize there are chocolates being sold, there are colas being sold and all other biscuits, everything, but all of them, most of them are fakes. And they are trying to capitalize. Somebody has already reached there. So while we are trying to sort of go and educate the customer saying that this is right, but he's used to certain things. So similarly, even in the other spaces, that's the phenomena. And a lot of apps have been created for these, like ShareChat is a classic example, which is catering to this market. So what Facebook and Google have done to over India, like ShareChat is trying to do that within this market. So it's a great opportunity for brands across. And as we all have agreed and said multiple times, digital has just accelerated that, completely accelerated. I would add fashion and food to it. Significant adoption of both these categories. We've seen proliferation of influencers and the whole influencer driven economy, both across fashion and food. Of course, I talked about media, finance, gaming and education, but I would also add fashion and food to it. And again, I did comment earlier that the aspirations of this, they were aspiring to be the IAS leaders of tomorrow, but trends are changing. People are looking at becoming influencers as a career option and that's legit. I mean, that's absolutely. People are looking to gaming as a career option as well. And again, that's becoming fairly legit, becoming more and more accepted within, not just their peers, but also within their family as well. Because make no mistake, they are very well influenced by the social circle that they live in. They're still not, I would say, nuclear in a way we see urban or metro audiences. They're still impacted more by family. But the whole influencer revolution and the whole creator economy that is creating a shift in most of these businesses and also accelerating them is phenomenal. It's essentially, as I said, we've just accelerated 10 years into the future, these one and a half years of COVID or two years have just moved us significantly forward. Yes, absolutely. Let me ask Rajiv now, more than a year ago, because you're talking about COVID. I mean, there was a time when big brands, Amul, Pali, they pulled back advertising from news channels, going to toxic content. Then there are digital websites, social media, which have been accused of spreading fake news, motivated news. And yet today's highly consuming consumer customer is a voracious reader and he wants to be very well informed. So what are the platforms that you use to reach out to them, especially in the Hindi-speaking states? I'm talking about news specifically. See, basically, TV, if I see, the total population is grossing around 900 million and digital, I will say 600 million, in fact. So number one, the digital nowadays is no more add-on medium, it's more of a rich platform for us. Number two, both on digital as well as on TV, that news definitely has played a very important role, in fact. But on television, that news has become very, very popular. But on digital also, that most of the people, they have the news apps and all that. Print has slightly, like, has become down in the last two years, in fact. The digital industry is already out of print, as I earlier said. The reason being that people don't wait for the next morning to pick up the newspaper, they get the news, that there. So what a reader, when you say, then definitely they are reading a lot on digital, in fact. Apart from the physical copy and all that. Number two, time span. Earlier that, when we used to pick up the newspaper, we used to spend complete one hour in the reading the newspapers and all that. Now, since already we have seen the news, definitely that the time spent on digital has become slightly more in fact. So when we have to target the news genre in fact, so number one, that nowadays, it's no more TV versus digital or something like that, it's more of the complete AV planning thread. That we will pick up the news, TV also will pick up the news on digital also, in fact. Number two, that it will depend on the objective also of my communication. If the objective is more of the impact, then TV and print also plays a very important role. I will launch some new consumer offer. I will launch some new packaging. I will launch some new product. Then print is a fantastic medium for me in fact. In one go that the entire city will know that I will launch something new in fact. But the digital has other advantages. If I have to go in a certain particular geographical territories, even in terms of pin code, in terms of small towns also and all that. So digital can take me to that particular town only, which perhaps that print may not give me that flexibility. Number two, that in terms of profiling of my consumer, that digital give me lots of options that how I can do profiling of my consumers. If my consumer is on heavily on news, in news also that what kind of news he's watching and what is his other lifestyle and all that, that thing that profiling I may not get on TV and print, that I will get on digital input. So all the factors are leading me that depending upon the objective that where I have to go, whether for news or for only news also, whether I have to go on TV or print or on digital input. Definitely the shift is happening both what is done nowadays from the TV and print. I think that's why HT has launched revamp their app, isn't it Mithish? No, absolutely. But here I just want to bring this point. You talked about fake news and you're absolutely right with the rising uncertainty. We have seen a significant rise in creation and distribution of fake news. With technology getting more sophisticated, it is actually a cat and mouse game with fake news creators finding innovative ways to to stay ahead like technologies like deepfake are highly prevalent and it makes it difficult for consumers to differentiate between real and fake information. It is therefore important for consumers and brands to have the assurance that they can trust a platform distributing the news and information along with the news itself. And again, remember that for print, the medium is the message. So as brand leverage, the trustworthy environment of some of the brands like in the sun to have a rub off effect on the messaging itself. Large brands actually turn to print, as Rajiv also said, to announce new launches and even call out to the print medium to share the stories during times of crisis management. We've seen several brands lean towards print for crisis management. So essentially what we have actually offered and that's again the new launch talks about is the whole word of Varosa, right? Which assures our partners that their message will be carried in a trustworthy and safe environment because we really hold ourselves to extremely high editorial standards, not just for now, but we've been doing it for almost 100 years through high quality standards of journalism. And we've realized that trust is a crying need of the consumers and brands alike. So with our proposition, Barosa, Barosa, Nai Hindustanka, we are once again reaching out with the promise of trustworthy news to our consumers. And because we're discussing advantages and disadvantages, I think ROA is a very important factor for advertisers. Jay, I'd like to ask, touch upon this subject, data measurement in HSM markets especially via print and digital. How is that working out? One of the biggest challenges which we have when it comes to this market is data. Data and measurement. So there has been quite some movement when we talk about the urban India. But when we look at this, it becomes very challenging. And you need to... So what we've done actually at Publix's group is that we've collated data from various sources. So you have the syndicated studies like IRS and some data coming out of Bach. But we've looked at census data. We've looked at data coming from Facebook, Google, GEO. Then we've also had our own customized data. So what happens is that it's very challenging. And this is something which I tell my clients very often that planning for India is like making a media plan for Europe. You have so many dialects. You have so many states, et cetera. And it becomes very difficult. You cannot have a homogeneous kind of a plan. And therefore what you need is a lot of data. Currently, I think the industry is highly, highly focused towards the urban. And most of the research work, most of the syndicated studies is more towards the urban India. But I think probably we are slightly late on this one. But that's where there has to be concentrated effort to have more data coming out for these markets. Because it's actually a media planner's nightmare when he has to make the entire plan and ensure that it's catered to each of these specific markets. So that's something which turns out to be a classic big challenge. But it comes to ROI obviously because of lack of data measurement becomes a challenge. And it's then forced to looking at the end result. And a lot of times advertising cannot like lead to sales. There are other brand measures which we try and sort of cater to. So these are some of the challenges which are there when it happens. But as we've all started and we all know that it's the market. So besides these restrictions, clients are willing to invest in these markets with a much more robust mechanism, it'll help further accelerate. In that case, let's ask the client on the panel. Rajiv, does it really interfere with the allocation of budget for the HSM market, the ROI factor and the data collection? You're very right. In fact, the data is a really big problem. And it's very difficult to measure the ROI impact. Because I very rightly said that apart from sales, that measurement of parameter is also the brand building, that brand impacts and all that. There are certain technologies available, but I will not say that they are the foolproof one, that it is not in all that, which can give me slightly more better picture that whatever I'm investing, whether it's giving me result or not, whether it's delivering, whether it's giving me ROI or not. But there are so many hurdles, so many bottlenecks and all that. So that's why it's very difficult to measure that whatever I'm investing, that how much ROI I'm getting. In case, if my basic objective is the sales, at least from E2C platform, in the performance marketing, I can do some little bit level of measurement that how many impressions I'm serving, how many clicks I'm getting, the rate I'm getting, but cost and all that. So it's still like I can get. But otherwise, in the overall, if I see the TV, print, digital, outdoor and all that put together all the investment, that how much is leading to my sale, how much is leading to my brand visibility, my impact and all that, it's very difficult because there are so many factors playing a role at a time. Like suppose I'm running my campaign, it's possible my computer also runs some campaign, it's possible my computer gives some scheme, it's possible there is some macro environment factor that some pandemic has come, which has completely, I don't remind them what I'm lying top line and all everything and all that. So there are so many factors that they may change your behavior also. There may be like during pandemic, lots of new products came out, which nobody anticipated earlier. In fact, so many products, they have to withdraw from the market, which nobody anticipated. So so many factors play an important role like every point of time. So it's very difficult to measure that whatever investment I'm doing, whether it's doing the ROI or not. But to some level, we have been able to see the ROI only in the digital space in D2C platform that we are doing the performance marketing with the clear objective of sales only. Interesting, very interesting. Now, Mitesh, let me ask you, HD Media as a brand is present in urban and rural markets. You're available in Hindi and English both. But till date, I think Hindi publications are the largest volume contributors in print. That's right, right? Yes, volume contributions. Right. Are these readers that we're talking about going to prefer downloading an English news app considering the aspirations are similar to those in urban areas, or essentially they would prefer to read news in the language of their, in Hindi, the language that they speak at all. Why, why do you think? Whichever. See, the beauty is that, you know, we are not really restricted by the language because given that it's an app and a digital economy, it just transcends any geographic, geographic boundaries. So the same HD is available in everywhere, right? In whether it's Lucknow or whether it's Luckimpur or whether it's Bihar. And likewise, Hindustan is also available everywhere. I think what is important is A, the consumption in the language of choice and the language of choice is very, very often the language that you have, you know, been accustomed to as you're growing up. So if you have gone through a language school and, you know, as the schooling goes, the way you also think, right, you normally think sometimes in your mother tongue and maybe you may be speaking in English, but, you know, instinctively you may be thinking in your mother tongue. And therefore the language is and it will move and it will change depending upon how these trends move across, right? As long as we see the primary language of education remains Hindi for that Hindi heartland, people think and are okay and communicate in Hindi, I think it'll be all fine. What is important is actually translating some of the some of the birds or some of the trends to local language and that essentially plays a very important role, whether as a reader, one is able to relate to what is being said. So, you know, it's simplification of language, whether it is demonetization or GST or any other stuff like that. Somebody has to, you know, I would say, simplify what is happening around and what these terms mean to me as long as that remains simple and easy for me to understand and as long as, you know, I'm comfortable with the language because I've grown up with that language, it should be fine, right? And see, I mean, these trends will change. We will see increasing education in in English, that is a phenomena which is happening. So over a period of time, it's not going to be immediate, but over a time, over a period of time, it will, it will, it may or may not happen. I don't know. I mean, I'm not a soothsayer, but as long as the fundamental language of education remains and the way we think and express ourselves remain as the simplification remains, language will always be accepted as a media of choice. I think I would just like to add on to what Mitesha is saying is that the big thing about these markets is the literacy levels. So while literacy is on the rise, but it continues to be a challenge and there are two factors which are very important. One is vernacular, which is communicating in their language and second is voice. So there are now complete apps, everything which is voice enabled. So you don't have to type, you don't have to do anything and that's gaining a huge momentum. So you're not, you're not asking the person to read or write, he can speak and therefore, you know, to communicate and do everything which is voice enabled. And that's, that's been the biggest rise which we have seen in these markets. Okay. You know, because you spoke about literacy and I think it is a big challenge and in a way, I don't know, just playing the devil's advocate here. When TV was coming up, it was a big threat for radio. Similarly, I mean, a big medium of platform which has become very appealing for the HSM audience is short-form media apps. So, you know, what, what is that edge that an edge would provide which a short-form video app cannot, you know, what is the kind of profile that you can basically help your advertisers reach out to which those apps might not be able to. Yeah, I think again, neither we are not really into a user-generated content. And as I would like to put out saying that, look, the integrity, the trust of the news that we put out is very important for us. And therefore, that while we, what we're doing, we are essentially learning and adapting from the behavior and the product itself. So when we talk about stories or the way, you know, reels, for example, are being consumed, you are essentially looking at a swipe up, swipe up kind of up and up kind of user behavior on the platform, right? So we were adopted that. So you see in the apps, you also have story formats which are quick reads, et cetera, which, you know, which you can actually swipe up, snackable content, et cetera, or reliance on video, which is, you know, short 15 seconders and short video clips to summarize the news. So we've adopted those. But as far as UGC is concerned, you know, there is always an arc of being a moderated news, a trustworthy source, which is something that, you know, the brand may not compromise on. So that's very core and important to us. So you kind of tried to balance the best of both worlds by keeping her integrity of life. Okay, fair enough. And my last question is to both of you, Jay and Rajeev, the next 100 million consumers will most probably be found in these markets. Do you agree? And what are the various ways brands must reach out to them to ensure that they get the maximum benefit? Rajeev, you can go first. Definitely, I agree. See, India's population right now is 70% rural, roughly, and 30% urban. Whereas in terms of, if I talk more in terms of SMC industry, there is 60% urban and 40% rural. So that means the population-wise, the rural contributes 70% and the industry-wise, it contributes 40%. So definitely there is a gap. And as I said earlier, there are three more factors in the most important role in the growth in the rural area. One is in terms of digitization, number two, the exposure to more and more quality and other kind of platform, rising inspirational level, rising disposable incomes and all that. So growth definitely will happen. And so a lot many consumers are going to be at it. And more and more companies are reaching the rural area with their newer products offering and customized to the rural impact. As a marketer, the most important challenge but I feel, making the product available in the rural area is bad. As I earlier said that the cost of distribution is not so cheap in the rural area. Because in the rural area, in one rural, there will be population of 5 to 10,000, 15,000, 20,000. It also depends that various companies that are dividing, they are categorizing the rural area in a different way. Somebody, when it is below 50,000, is everything rural. Somebody say, go as per the Census of India definition of rural only. Somebody goes 25,000 below all the rural and all that. Whatever the definition is, not so important. The important factor is that cost of distribution in the rural area is not so cheap in fact. So the first and foremost thing is that how to make the product available in the rural area in fact. And for that, various options are being evaluated by the different companies. Some of them are there on network. Somebody are trying out with other companies and all that. And that's number one. Number two, that customizing the product as per the rural needs and the wants, aspirational level, their lifestyle, their behavior, their culture, everything and all that. Number three, that matching the product available at the affordable price as per the income of the rural area. Number four, definitely the communication is very, very important. How to customize your communication as per the understanding level of the rural area through which they can relate with the brand. They can think it's my brand. I can buy this in fact. So there are a few of these factors, which will be a very important role for any marketer. Jai, your turn. No, I definitely like, you know, sort of my echo my thoughts with Rajuji. It's probably not 100 million, probably 300, 400 million is going to come from there. Urban is going to become more as a fight for market share, you know, and almost is going to be a very important role in that. But when it comes to rural, it's about getting new consumers. So that's where the entire potential lies. Again, 70% of India is rural and, you know, we've not even scratched the surface. Next 10 years, 15 years, I think it's going to be a very important phase in how much we can like, you know, go deeper into this and extract out of the market. Again, I think Rajuji covered it well, that, you know, it's all about like understanding the consumer, keeping the consumer at the center, which is, I'm saying the basics of any marketing that if we were to reach out to them, we'll have to look at the consumer and then plan everything around. Again, the consumer is ready. So it's not that, you know, earlier, again, we were thinking, will he shampoo his hair? Will he have biscuits? All that is happening in these markets. But as I said, there is a huge level of duplicates which is being consumed and therein lies the opportunity to get the real brands in to happen to this consumer. Very, very valid point there. If I may summarize the discussion, around 15% of India's population decides in the HSM or the Hindi-speaking markets, this Hindi belt is clearly the new epicenter of India's rapidly growing consumption story. Whether they will clearly lead the growth and steal a march away from the saturated metro cities, I think only time will tell, but the question is, if it really happens, are the marketers going to be prepared for it? So leaving you on that thought and thank you so much to the panelists for this wonderful, wonderful discussion. Thanks so much, everyone. Really enjoyed the conversations. Same to you. Same to you. Thanks a lot. Thank you so much. Thank you.