 issue going on and I thought it would be much better if I looked this way. So, so thank you for being here and I'm sure you've already read the women's panel discussion and why you're here and what we're going to be doing. And I usually come with a whole list of questions and I usually ask one question and then three hours later we're done. So I'm not going to do that this time. So we're going to open it up because this is your event as much as it is ours and if you have questions for us like we'll start off and we'll talk about women in leadership and what that really means in our culture. But I want you to feel free to interact and to ask questions because we're all here together. Okay, so this is your event as much as it is ours. And I do have to mention that this event was created by the Vermont Avanaki Artists Association in partnership with the Lake Champlain Maritime Museum and the Flynn Center for the Performing Arts and it was supported by a grant from the Vermont Humanities Council and I believe the Lake Champlain Basin Program. So thank you to the Fletcher Free Library for hosting this event and without further ado, my name is Melody Brooke. I'm the Chair of the Commission on Native American Affairs and I'm a citizen of the Avanaki Band and I will let you all introduce yourselves. I'm Lucy Neal. I'm with the Malhegan Band of Avanaki in the Northeast Kingdom and I'm the former Chair of the Vermont Commission of Native American Affairs. And I'm Carol McGranny-Han. I'm also a member of the Noah County Band. I'm Vice Chair of the Commission. And I'm Carol Irons. I live in the Northeast Kingdom. I'm on the Commission. I'm not in any of the bands. I'm a free spirit. Avanaki Women and Leaders. These are some of the most awesome women that we have in our in our groups. And I'm super proud to be standing next to them while sitting next to them. And I was wondering if folks might start us off by explaining what do you see as our traditional roles that that happened prior to contact with Europeans and maybe how that is different today. It's a big question. Well, in the long ago, from all that we've been able to determine, because we didn't keep written records, we only had some symbols, but we didn't have written records. We had oral teachings. And the women and men had equality. They did tend to take different roles. Men did more of the hunting and raiding. But some women did do that until they began childbearing. And because the women were the ones who brought the new life into the world for the people and therefore represented the future of the people, they did not put themselves at risk going on war raids after they began childbearing. But in terms of governance, we were we tended to function largely in small extended family bands. And the women and the men participated in council meetings or group meetings and arrived at decisions together using a process of consensus. Rather than any kind of pyramid of authority, which came much later from across the ocean from the Western European cultures. I am only newly a member of the know he can be in. So I'm still learning about the history and what that meant to our people. I don't know. I'm still learning with Carol about the roles that women had back then. As far as leadership today, I I'm very lucky to be a member of the commission and be able to help teach people to work on projects that help get the information out about the Apanaki to show that we're still here. We're still a viable group. So for me, it's a learning experience. And I think everybody needs that. Everybody needs to see that the women are still a strong force with the people. And I take opportunities when I can to teach younger people because they are our future. So that's where I see my role at this point. I am learning my family tree. And I've learned that my great great grandmother, who it was Apanaki in Canada, was an eccentric lady. A very strong lady and a very powerful lady. She survived four husbands and a story was related to me by my dad's cousin that she smoked a pipe. And when she got a little needed to relax a little bit, she'd take her pipe out. And my great-grandmother would get really annoyed with that saying, go put that away. She taught all her children the Apanaki language, which I found like just fascinating. So I perceive the past women as being a very, very strong group of women, just with her story. Today, when I was on the chair, when I was on the commission, we were kind of very goal oriented. And I decided that in the Northeast Kingdom, maybe we needed to look at Indian education. And Swanton and Franklin County had Title VII Indian education from the federal government. So I thought, well, so I spoke with both of the superintendents of schools in my county. We had two separate supervisory unions. And they were amazing. Supported me. I wrote the grant. And by gosh, Northeast Kingdom has Title VII Indian education money. We use that money right now for after school programs. And teaching in our community. My tribe, we have a set team. We go to the different schools. And we teach pre-contact, contact, and Native Americans today. I'm a school nurse and a teacher. So it kind of comes natural with the kids. And it's just been a really enjoyable adventure. If we have a child that needs special guidance in one area, reading recovery, a math tutor, whatever, that's there for them. But not only for them, for the other kids too that need it in that supervisory union for that level. So that was, that was my adventure and it's still an adventure. We're still progressing in that, in that arena. And our kids are now starting to own their heritage. And I've gone, I've doubled my number of students claiming their narrative heritage. Awesome. I have a few friends from the Penobscot Reservation. And there was, my friend, Lady, he came to visit me once. And he, he kept asking me to, like, I have to sit when you pull out the chair. I want to cook breakfast for us. Do you think you could touch the pan? And after like a whole morning of this, I was like, what are you doing? Like, why do I have to touch everything? This is so strange. And he's like, well, well, now, like, our, all of our traditional gender roles have been flipped on their heads. And the circle has been broken. He's like, so every, I want more in women to have input in our everyday lives. Whether that's adding just a little bit of shade to the things that I'm doing in my everyday life, or whether it's, you know, something big, like chairing the commission or, you know, heading up a tribe. We need more women in everything we do because our traditional roles, they've been broken. And how do you restore spirit to that? And so I took that and I thought, well, we had a Wabaraki Confederacy meeting a couple years ago that Nohiji posted here in Vermont at the Shelburne Farms. And there was a women's council that took part. And there was one of our young ladies who, she was going to college. She's like, I'm kind of undecided. I don't know what to do. They said, well, what are you good at? And then bring that back to your, your, your culture and your society. And I was like, oh, and she took that. She said, you know, you're right. Because for us, it isn't, we need a doctor. You're going to have to be a doctor. Well, maybe you're not good at, you know, well, maybe you shouldn't be the one like cutting people, but I don't know. So we look at what your strengths are and we, we help that grow. And that's very different than leadership in some other communities I feel like. So I thought there was a really beautiful way of looking at it. And now she said, you know, we really need some advocates and in terms of environmental science. And so that's what I'm going to do. So now she's, she's going to school for environmental science and she just got a full bright. Isn't that awesome? I'm like so excited. Hold on one sec. I will have to totally get to you. And I just wanted to say in terms of prior to contact, nothing tells you more about what a culture and a society thinks. Then, and their core values, who they are, then your stories of creation. And so one of our stories talks about how Husgabi, our culture hero, who's sitting out in Lake Champlain right now, how he shot an arrow into the ashtray and outlawed men, women and children. We weren't created to be somebody else's thing. I don't know. But we were created as a whole society because you can't have a society without men, women and children. And one of my, my elders, he always told me that if you're talking about human rights, that's not how we talked about things. And if you're saying, well, we're colonized, we have to figure themselves. If you're saying that you're already colonized and it's too late. So he said, just stop saying it and get over it and just be you. And I was like, okay. I don't know how you do that, but okay. So there's my two cents. But in the past, women, we controlled, we were the ones who worked the earth and we controlled a lot of the food. And men, you know, you might go off out into the woods and try to go hunting. You might come back empty-handed. But you have a lot of power when you are the one who controls that. And the women are the ones that, in the aunts and all the grandmothers, they took care of the kids, right? So those are the people who are your culture bearers. They're making sure that your society continues in that way. And that's, that's an extreme amount of power. And you have to take it seriously. So Carol, go ahead. Do you want to come on up? When you raise your child in the nowadays, the traditional, practical setting, you teach your child, like, at our gatherings, you know, I always taught my daughter, you know, go find an elder, find out what they want to eat. Getting their plate first, they go first. If you have something and somebody needs something, give them half. There's, you know, respecting the animals, the plants, and everybody has a contribution. There's a lot of teaching that we still do that we consider a native. You know, like the consensus thing is not, you know, you do what I say or else I'm going to hurt you. You know, you sit down and talk about it, you know, or if they're, they have more questions. It's like, why don't you go talk to one of the elder ladies and run, you know, pull it over with her. Raising my daughter who's very active in the community, she always felt like she had many, many aunties and many, many grandmothers and she had been through some, like, horribly racist stuff that made the national news. But she felt she had the Adamnack community had her back. You know, I mean, that's how she survived mentally, emotionally, and physically was. And also, when she could be like a teenager, it was like, well, what if my grandmother's an auntie's find out if I did that thing? I'd never hear the end of it. So she knew, she had a community, and she's a, you know, I'm really proud, she said, to be Adamnack, because she goes, I know that even when I'm a great, hard-haired old lady, I won't be devalued. I'll still be honored and even more honored in game value with age. Instead of being, and instead of being shuffled off to the side. And I'll never forget when you saw my first pow wow princess. She was 300 pounds and six foot tall. She was a McMack. And I was like, she's, she's the beauty guy's important. I mean, you know, our culture allows, we aren't just, there's a deeper meaning in our culture where you're valued as a person. And instilling that in your kids, they're less likely to get involved in drugs, or just like, let's party now, because they're maybe going tomorrow. You know, because you see, you're taught to look seven generations behind and seven generations ahead. And where is your place in there? And what do you have to contribute to that society? So that's, I like the reference to the seven generations, because that's an awful lot of our teachings that we, we always talk about the learnings, the teachings that we've been able to recover or glean, even borrow came from the past seven generations, those who walked before us. And then we speak of those who walk behind us as the next seven generations. And we need to preserve these teachings and share these teachings that the people might live. It's the only way to keep the people going. And it's, it's those teachings. So it's, it's extremely powerful. And I feel like when we're talking about traditional gender roles, we wouldn't have talked about it in that way. And you are right, Carolee, in that how would you treat a human being and what are the gifts that are given to you? Because women, we have things that we can do that men can't do. Right? Just saying. And and so that will always be a very important part of our lives. And it isn't just because today in modern society, people say, well, you shouldn't be relegated to doing this, this and this. But you know what? That isn't how we think about things. It's, this was a gift given to you. And if one of our, our girls wants to stay home and she wants to raise her baby and and she, that's how she wants to be. She wants to instill all of these lovely teachings into that, into that new little human being. While that is lovely. And it is, and we shouldn't ever look at men as being devalued for doing so because it's very important. So I feel like our traditional rules, just because they're different than men's doesn't mean that they're, they're worse or that there's a problem. If that makes sense. Right? Okay. So what would you say is the current state of women in leadership in our society today? Do you feel like it's balanced in Abenaki society? Well, you want an honest answer? Yes. Well, one of the reasons I'm not in the state recognized tribes is because I don't feel it is balanced. A lot of the leadership has been what we refer to as colonized. They have taken on very strongly the value system that came from across the waters that have a pyramid of authority with once they become chief or one of the leadership, they feel that they're at the top of the pile and they're, they know more than anybody and they're in authority. And I'm making kind of generalizations and certainly there's variations, but the men, particularly in our culture now have, have really, you know, found that very appealing to them. And those of us that are taking leadership roles are really swimming against that in terms of trying to empower all our people and help them. You know, there's, there's this thing, oh, the women shouldn't be on the drum. Well, a lot of the women are drumming and singing very strongly. And they're remembering the songs and they're teaching the children. You know, we're, we're resisting that because we've lost a lot of our old ways. We're recovering what we can. We're teaching them on, but we're not willing to subscribe to strict gender roles that give the men the, the top roles and the power because that's not as far as we can tell. That's not the way we functioned long ago. And it's, it's buying into a different culture that has used that to dominate us. So it's, it's a struggle. It's, it's a continual struggle. They, the, the men are, are doing what they think they should and they're doing some good things for their tribal groups, but they're also trying to sit at the top of the pile. And so some of us are resisting that and we can do a lot of things that the men aren't doing. Like having little groups of kids and teaching them songs and teaching them some of the crafts and most of the men aren't doing that. And the women are doing that. That's very specifically related to our culture, rather than related to some artificial political power. So it's, it's different than it was, but it has to adapt. We were a living culture. We still are a living culture and we're, we're adapting and we're having to walk with a foot in each world because we have to survive in the big world out there as well. But we also want to retain our culture and strengthen it and empower all our people and not buy into a political system that actually is destructive of indigenous cultures. It was never meant to help our cultures. We've come around a corner and six years ago, six or seven years ago when all the four recognized tribes have recognized in the state, prior to that everything was very hush hush underground. I know that my grandparents would not acknowledge their native heritage. My dad, up until before he crossed over, wouldn't acknowledge his native heritage because they were afraid. We don't have to be afraid anymore. So this is a whole new adventure. But again, too, I agree with Carol that we've been colonized so much that the men are the chief and we do the best we can. And with my particular tribe there's kind of like a key three and it's three guys. And it's, I swim against the stream. I, you know, I would fight for what, for what we have to have. And it's, it gets pretty monotonous sometimes. But what saves or my saving grace out of all of it is seeing the kids that I teach perform for their peers on the drum and sing and watching other kids going, well you know, I could do that. Or, and that brings it, that's our next generation. That's, that's the ones we're teaching them. But it's, it's hard when, when some of the colonial ways are still there and we're trying to make that subside and go away a little bit. And it's a struggle for the women today, I think. My husband is colonized. So I have a daily battle with that, too. And it's not because he's, he doesn't need to be that way. It's just the way he was raised. So a lot of what I fight with daily is, you know, no, I want to do this and I want to do it this way. And it's like, oh, he's a guy who knows more, you know. So then you go out into the big world and you fight the same battle. You go into a work environment. I'll give you one example. I worked in a, a state department. I was there for 14 years. I knew the job inside now. The supervisor retired. They were going to hire somebody else. And I thought, well, gee, I do the work. I know it. Every phase of that work. Obviously, I'm a candidate, right? No, they hired somebody with a PhD because he had the doctorate. He could prove that he knew what he was doing. But I still did the work. So was it, for me, it was a blatant thing of, do we put a woman in a role like that? Or do we put a man? Well, he's got a PhD. Yeah, she knows the work. She'll still do the work. And I think women's in the real world, that's the way it is. So you're, you're not only fighting the sort of making your voice heard with me at home, but going out in real world and making my voice heard. To prove that I have value, which it sounds like in the old days, I wouldn't have had to prove my value. It would have been honored. You know, they would have recognized it without me hopping up and down and waving my arms and saying, but I can do this. So I don't think it's a struggle. It's a struggle for all of us, no matter what environment we're in, to have a voice. And it's like human lives matter. It doesn't, but all lives matter. For me, the trees, the rocks, swimming, flyers, creepy crawlers all have value. And as a woman, I try to teach this to the children. They understand that, but the older people don't seem to. Again, I fight with my husband. Don't cut the tree. You're butchering it. Terminology I used. You're butchering a tree. What does that mean? But it's a life. So again, you know, I think women have, they have a nurturing role, but it's nurture everyone. You have to nurture your partner, all living things, the standing stills, the rooted, and your children. They're all equal. So you have to nurture all of them. And wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have men to do that too? Just saying. I have a feeling of just saying a lot. My brother's told me, he goes, you know, it's interesting because you look at domestic violence issues and violence against women, which is definitely not traditional in our society. That was not something that happened. He's like, women are creations themselves. They're the only one who can bring, call a life from one world and bring it into this one. And he's like, so when you do something to a woman, you are literally hurting creation itself. So when we talk about my friend, Rhonda Anderson, who I think is one of the coolest people I've ever met. And she's, I think she's a newbie from Alaska and she does a lot of climate change work. And she specifically, she went to a rally recently and she talked about the Me Too movement, but the missing and murdered indigenous movement and how it all plays into, well, the, the, the one woman that we're all forgetting is, you know, is Mother Earth. And what are we doing to her? So if we're all connected to her and we're all her daughters, it all goes back to there. And if you can't even treat your, the mother that's supporting you in every way, shape and form, I don't know how, what hope do you have for the dominant society recognizing us as human beings? And why do indigenous women go, are missing and murdered at higher rates than any other population? It's, it's really heartbreaking. And so I think it all goes back to respect and how you pull it full circle. So I grew up at Miss Siskelay. And when I was growing up, there was Brenda, who was the head of the, the circle of courage. And she did a lot of all the work in terms of education. There was Japanese wasn't part of our community, but he's a very important advocate. And then the chief was a woman and all these people who were in charge of everything were all women. And then at one point I remember there was a guy who got into one of the roles. I was like, oh, and, and I mean, it was interesting because my whole, for me, it was all female centric. And I was like, Oh, is this like affirmative action for us or something? And then I go, well, his wife said he'd be because, Oh, okay. And I mean, now it's a little different there. But I feel like when I left Miss Siskelay, and we, you know, women could do a lot of things, then I went to El Niu. And it was very traditional. So I went from being like, part of the most populist tribe, the female chief to the smallest tribe with less than 100 people dominated by, by guy stuff. And the chief was a man. And I love Roger. But there are times when Roger and I buy heads a little bit. And I often tell him, you know, we have course, you have course of power. I don't have to listen to you. So we're going to disagree. But I still love you, man. And so they were very big. I remember the first time I went into a session, they were drumming. And I was like, Oh, your drum is so pretty. And I touched it. And they were like, like, I just murdered a dog or something. And I was like, what's going on? And they're like, but you have to smudge it. I mean, she's got a woman, like she's, the women can't touch your drums. And I was like, Oh, wow. Okay, this is so very different. I hated it. I hated it for the first six months. And then he, and then Roger sat me down, and he's like, you know, women may not drum, but you do all these other things. And these are just as important. And it took me a long time to rectify the traditional roles versus what's happening now. And we are all the four bands. So there's four bands, if you don't know, that are recognized. There's the Nelhegan, the Kowasek, the Siskoi and Elnu. And we're all very different. So we all have our own flavor. We all do different things. And Nelhegan were less traditional as far as the drum rose. We have a mixed drum. We have men and women that had drummed together. And we went to Champlain to teach the children their college students there. But it was a mixed drum. And it was lots of questions, lots of dialogue, lots of singing. And it was just this peaceful, spiritual moment that just I don't even know how to describe. It was just powerful. It was. And the first time we relearned our women. So we've received some wax cylinder recordings from about 1910 or so. And on there was a women's healing song. And the first time we all sang it together, I was at the Kowasek meeting. The women started singing. And it sounded like there were a lot more people singing it. And all the electronics started just going haywire. And the one guy who was there was like, computers dying. I was like, well, there you go. And the second time we tried to teach it at the Cisco a couple months ago. And one of the guys kept trying to lead it. It kept falling apart. I'm like, dude, sit down. Okay, so let's sing this. So we started singing it. Carolee was there. And the same guy, he's got his stuff set up. And it was really pretty. And one guy was crying, right? And then he's like, you guys should sing that again. And then Fred's computer just died. And he's like, I can't be around you women. When you're singing this song, that was like, see, we still have power. We've always had hand drums. We've always had water drums. But we never had the big drum. That was not ours. That's something that's starting out west. So that's what I've been doing. I've been out west to watch the Santo Domingo Pueblo. They have a corn festival last week of August, last week of July, first week of August, one of the most fantastic dancing you'd ever ever see. All the men go into the quiva. And they stay there and they pray and will have you. And then they come out and they drum. And it's a guy's world. And but just watching that was like, wow. But up here, well, I know, we're not as strict as El Luz in that regard. It's an open drum. When I teach my kids, it's an open drum. A world family. And it's powerful. That's all I can say. It's just really powerful. I feel like in a world where everything is already balanced and we had our traditional roles, even if, you know, there are some songs that men sing. There are some songs that women sing. And then there are switch songs where you switch genders. And we didn't have just two genders. So that's a thing too. I feel like you wouldn't need to over stress that women, we're just trying to find little footholds because I feel like there's a lot of times when we don't have a foothold in places. And I've been, and I just want to say that this event is not about not liking men at all. This event is about restoring balance and understanding that because I love the men. I like men. Yeah. So how do you think we can like share the message of like sensitivity as a strength and not a weakness to like both men and women? Men have to find a place that isn't from fame. And, you know, men are now beginning to do beatwork. They're beginning to do some of the craft work. They are also on the drum with the women and vice versa. So they're beginning to find that the mixed roles are not threatening and are not painful. So it's starting and honoring that they can do these things just as much as the women and the women can do them as much as the men. And starting from that basis, rather than separating and then deciding which group has more power, which has always been an unbalanced thing. Some of these guys, as they're expanding their talents, surprise themselves. And somehow that makes them a little more humble. That makes any sense. Because whatever piece that they're doing or whatever creativity talent, it surprises them. And it does. It humbles them. It just, wow, I can do this. And then it kind of makes them think a little bit too, I think. Reflecting all I just said about men coming from a place of pain, I think just the way that the world is now, it's a very hard road for everyone. There's pain, but I think there's also a lot of insecurity because there's certain standards that the polarized world has set that men feel if they don't follow the road the way they should, that they're sometimes less. And I think, for me, it's always trying to reassure back to grandson. And in this world, this day and age, there's so many things out there that are so scary. To reassure them and let them know that there's always going to be loving arms for them to go to. And I think sometimes that bridges such a gap, you know, that as long as they know they have a safe place to be. And if that means helping men understand they're safe wherever they are to, I mean, it's scary for everyone. I think it's just not that men can come out and verbalize that as easily as women. I got my master's degree in history, and I specialized in first contacts because I really wanted to know at the time of contact, when you're meeting any person, what's possible? Do you fight with them? Do you marry them? Do you kill them? Like, what do you do? You have all these options and every single day, we face that choice when you meet new people. So how can we take them? What's beautiful in the past to bring it forward? And one of the first accounts that I saw was women were the dear runners. Women were ambassadors. We had this really important role. So for us being on the commission and running the commission is not out of place. But I think people have forgotten that. And then I read this, they would, they would greet people. They would say, you know, welcome here. They would reach lands into the sun. It was this really beautiful salutation, right? And then once you start getting, by the time you get to like Gosnold and this one particular journey, they come on the shore and they say, oh look, women, these are English, the difference between French and English. They come in and they're like, oh cool, women. And then they take them. And I don't know what happened to these women. I'm sure they died and were sold somewhere. But after that journey, I do not read about women greeting them on the coast. And then I kind of thought, you know, I think I need to give our guys a little bit of credit for what, how they, they took, you know, they took care of us. And so that's why, that's why we're not out on the coast. Like they're protecting us. And so it got to a point where these are our women and we're not going to let anything happen to them. And one of these traditional roles went by the wayside. And there's always danger, but now we've got to come out and like, now we need to be, we need to be out on the front again. We need to restore some of our roles. And I think letting them know that one of our things that we used to do, well, number one, I'm a huge pain in the butt to my chief. I think he loves me. But when I first like, I kept saying to my people, I was like, I can't do any of this stuff. And someone said, here, I'll just give you a women's drum. It was my great-great-grandmothers from like the 1850s. And here's the songs with it. And I was like, oh, so I walked up to him and I was like, hey, what's up? Want to hear a song? I've got this really great song. And he's like, he's like, okay, fine, do what you want. I was like, okay, well, but it's like push and pull. That push and pull in society, you always have to have it. Because that's why our contrary is so important because they tested the limits of society so that you always know what you're doing is right. And if something isn't right, like, then fix it. So you always need the checks and balances. You can't just have one person doing everything and saying this is, you know, this is how it's going to be. That's not never how we were. Well, the ancient teachings about the earth, I don't know how many of you are familiar with that, but our people understood as Indigenous people did all over the planet that this planet is a living being. There's the web of life, which she nurtures. And we're just one in a whole web of life. We're not superior. We're just one strand of that web of life. And we honor the others as our brothers and sisters. So we don't try to put ourselves in a dominant role like we have rights over others. So when our people did hunting or fishing, they made an offering to that being that they gave over its life to feed us. Life feeds life. So yes, it can be cruel to kill an animal to eat or fish or a plant. The fact that you don't hear the broccoli scream when you cut it from its roots doesn't mean it wasn't a sentient being. Trees communicate with each other, plants do, as well as the four-legged and the winged, all the other beings. And we're just one as they are. We all feed each other. The earth has a breathing system. There are small holes at different places on the planet. Rare, indeed, but I have been to one of them out west and it was a hole, not much bigger than this, I could, would have had trouble crawling in. And what happens out there, there were little offerings in the entryway because in indigenous traditions on this continent, we would leave a little tobacco in a little red cloth or we would leave a coin or we would leave, somebody might take off their watch and leave it if they didn't have something else. It didn't matter the value. It mattered the offering and the honoring of what was going on there. And this was a breathing hole of Mother Earth. And what happens is the breath goes in for six hours straight, just steadily flowing inward. And at the end of that six hours, it reverses and it flows outward for six hours straight. And then it reverses and she inhales again. Now it's a different pace than what we breathe at. All beings are different, but the earth is breathing near. Now the scientists have finally come up with some explanation. That's fine, that's their thing. But we knew centuries ago that this earth breathes. We know that she has veins as we do. And her waters let us live. We can't live without her waters. And her waters are her veins, the rivers, the streams, the undercurrent ones, as well as the surface ones. And we have veins of fluid in our bodies. So you know, to think that somehow this is not a living being when you take a bulldozer and start digging or you blast the top along the ridge line of a mountain to put up wind turbines, like you have a right to destroy that environment simply to feed our insatiable use of energy is madness. And it can't continue. And the women, more and more the women know this. And some of the men, and I think the women are leading with this because the women feel this kinship with the earth. If you go to a pow wow, you'll notice that the women dance with their feet close to the earth because we are extensions of the earth mother. The men dance with their feet higher because they're of movement in the sky. So all our teachings interweave our behavior with our understandings of the spiritual essence of all life. Anaki language or if that's a guide, I'm not sure what the status of the language is. It's coming back. We have several fluent people that are gracious enough to teach us. Classes going not continually, but more than it has been in the past. I think there's more more of our people wanting to know and to go back to our language. What was the movie? We still appear? Saints and strangers. It was the story of Thanksgiving. But the people, the native people there were not our people, but the language that was chosen to be spoken in this movie was Abnaki. And it was just, for me, simply amazing to hear it. I'm learning a little bit. It's difficult. Where we flow with phrases is one word could have this whole sentence meaning. So it's I'm learning and I think it's coming more and more. Yeah, I think like 10 years ago, maybe we had eight or nine people on the planet that spoke it fluently. I think there was maybe one in the States, most of them were Odineck and Jess Bruschak taught himself through music and he's one of the ones leading the charge. And so now it's coming back, but you're right. It is a mindset. And if you read Brady Sweetgrass, it's one of the most beautiful books I've ever read. But she talks about in there learning her language, which is Potawatomi. And it's a language of animosity. And so she struggled with why is the bay not a noun? It should be a, you know, and why is ours a verb? And the whole point is that it's alive. It chooses to be at that shore for you at that time. It chooses to be a bay. So doesn't that change your perspective when all the world around you, like Carol was saying, is alive and is a living breathing thing, right? And it does matter what happens in all these other places in the world because no matter where you go, your home, your mother is still supporting you. So treat her that way. So don't shift all your junk off to some country that, you know, pour their world country and they have to take care of your trash, like live in a more sustainable and a better way. And that's how you respect things. That's how we start coming back to understanding. We need to get rid of our egos. That's what it all comes back to is recognizing we're all on the circle of creation together. And instead of, you know, blaming some people for their roles in it, maybe you could just welcome them back to that circle. Isn't that the whole point? Isn't that a more beautiful way of looking at it? We did a grant. Carol did a program last year and it's gone in sections. And it was Abnaki revitalization. And we had a professor come. And it was a whole week. We were in the Northeast Kingdom at Northwood Stewardship Center for the week. And it was divided. And the whole program was designed to teach us, to teach our people, to bring it back to our people. And the professor came from Maine and she was teaching us the language. I mean, we left, we weren't. You know, this was just a baby step, but it was a start. We learned our history. We learned edibles. We learned sustaining ourselves. We learned some spiritualism, but all to bring back to our people. And it was probably the best week I've ever, ever, ever spent. And we're expounding on that. And years ago, as a commission, we held a class in Eden, which was getting all the four tribes together so that we were in unison. And affirming traditions is what we called it. And in the beginning, you know, we talked about our old traditions. And old traditions are wonderful. But we can have new traditions. It's okay. And sometimes that's hard for people to grasp. When we hang on to our old traditions, they're right here. But, you know, we can build new and we can build stronger and we can build better. And that's what that particular, for me, I was the chair back then, and it was amazing for me to see all representatives from all four tribes there. And we were playing happy. And it was just really nice to see it can be done. When you read the Jesuit Relations, um, the very first sentence basically is, the Ebenaki people are very pious. And we wish other people were like them. Which means that the first people you're going to get rid of are people who are different. And I think that we had other genders. And I think there's no record of that because the Jesuits did a really good job of making sure that they weren't here. So I do think you're right in that there was more fluidity that you could be whoever you wanted to be. Because at the root of our culture is really how you treat another human being. And I have been trying to find evidence. And I am coming up short. But the only thing I found was talking about basically contraries. If you do one thing one way, they might do it the exact opposite to provide the balance. Because then everyone's thinking, oh, why are you doing it this way? It's a beautiful method. You know, when you look at the Southwest and two spirited folks, and you look at how much spirit and how important they were in society, I can't imagine that there wasn't everywhere. So especially with how loving that people were here. You know what I mean? I feel like they were. Maybe they were. But I feel like we were. Does anyone else have anything to add to that? The role of the contrary was a medicine fact. It took a lot of training and understanding. But nowadays it would probably be called psychological. But it was a medicine way. And it was a way of demonstrating to someone through contrary behavior. You know, if somebody was really arrogant and strutting around the law, and it was to the degree that it could bring harm to the community. I mean, we all have our differences. So it wasn't to nail just anybody. But if somebody, for instance, was strutting around and being arrogant and maybe making some decisions that could be harmful to the community because their ego was getting a bit big, the contrary would strut around behind them in very exaggerated ways. And maybe if this person had their hair a certain way, the contrary would really outdo it and make fun of them in a way. But it was exaggerating to show them where their behavior was on the scale and that it was over the top. And it would, you know, it kind of caused the person to pull back because it was a medicine way. He couldn't turn around and just punch the contrary or get mad at him even, because that would be disgraceful to him. Because the contrary was giving him a message that was for the good of the community, but also for his individual. And it also applied to women. It wasn't just men. But it was a very important role within the community to help reestablish harmony through the exaggeration or the pandemime or whatever that could demonstrate when someone was getting outside the boundaries of what was good for the people. So it was a powerful role and it took some real insight into human behavior to conduct oneself in a teaching way. I remind them every day. I just sent an email to one of the chiefs checking them. I figured at our last tribal council I could say something in regards of consensus versus colonial influence. But our tribe is, we try really hard to do consensus. I was in a group much earlier that did operate on consensus and I'm here to tell you that's not an ideal process either. That was incredibly painful and difficult and we had really lost the skills of doing it and I don't know if there is a comfortable way because if one or two people hold out it holds up the whole group decision making process and it can do that for a long time. I think what our people earlier did is they would gather as a people. They usually sat in a circle so that everybody was on an equal basis and they would go around and they would discuss if they could not reach a decision they would adjourn and they would gather again at a later time and take it up again and work at it again. Everybody has to listen to everybody else. There's a talking stick. The person who's speaking is not interrupted. That helps but you know somebody who's really talkative may not help but we would try three times and if after three efforts at reaching consensus they couldn't reach it the subject was dropped which meant no decision was reached and therefore no action was taken and sometimes that can be pretty difficult also. Certainly if there's a serious issue that affects the well-being of the group you tend to reach consensus a little sooner because the group well-being depended on it and individuals learn to submerge their at least their strongest individual needs or rights or point of view for the well-being of the group because if the group didn't live the individual wasn't going to make it either and that sense of community is something everybody has lost now. We're now so individual you do what you want and if the group doesn't like it's so too bad you know and off they go or they do it anyway and we have that in the towns we have that in groups but you know if the well-being the safety and survival of the group depended on a sense of community and mutual cooperation it made a big difference and that's something we need to recover we all need to recover. So I just want to end it a little bit with going back to one of my favorite stories is one that Jim Brushak tells and it's about the magic game bag and how he juxtaposes grandmother Woodchuck with Gluscabi and how grandmother Woodchuck she's like the strong person in the village that everyone goes to she's very quiet but she is very wise she's very he is very ambitious he likes going out of the world but he's not the smartest guy and so he he goes out and he does all of these things right he's he's a guy he goes out to the world and he's he's trying to make change he's trying to his heart is in a good place and he comes back and he tells grandmother Woodchuck like all of these things that he wants to do and she kind of balances him with well did you ever think about this did you think about it in this way and these kinds of things about it but it just shows you that nobody is perfect but together we can be perfect. So I feel like that is a good representation because our our roles are very well represented there but also shows that we all have strengths and they may be different but you should all like our I feel like leadership in Abenaki society is really about enhancing the gifts that were given to you and recognizing them and they're all different so do you all have anything to add before we go? Thank you for being here we very much appreciate it