 Okay, good morning everyone. Welcome to the class today. It's a little cool here. So I'm just wearing a little jacket on and yeah, let's pray and we will get started. Could one of us please pray with the class and we will start? I have any father. Thank you for this hour that you've given to us to share your work and learn more. May God bless you. May God bless you. May God bless you. May God bless you. Thank you, Kennedy. All right. Good morning, everyone, once again, and sorry, we're to cancel our classes last Thursday. All the three lectures, we didn't have them. And anyway, we will be able to make sure we complete what we want to cover in the course. So today, we're going to get into our last main topic in this course, BC212 on Christian Apologetics, which has to do with social challenges. How do we, as believers, respond to social challenges? And the truth is, especially when we look at the Western world, social issues are becoming more and more important. And somehow, the church is confronted with these issues, as we will see. And the fact is, as we look at what's happening in the Western world, sooner or later, similar kinds of things can be expected to happen in other parts of the world. So we can actually learn by looking at some of the challenges they are facing. And also, sadly, the church in the Western world sometimes gets divided I shouldn't say sometimes, but it is divided even around these social issues. So we have to, you know, that's again a very important lesson for us to learn that while we, you know, the church is faced with these social issues, and this will happen in other parts of the world, we must be careful not to let these things divide the church. Sadly, it has happened already in much of the Western world. They are divided based on these social issues that people, I'm talking about churches, believers, you know, being on opposite sides and, you know, opposite sides are divided basically around these social issues. So it is important for two reasons, you know, that we discuss these things. It's important, one is because the church, sooner or later, have to respond, have to have a voice concerning these matters. And secondly, we have to be careful not to let these matters, these social issues, divide the church. And then, you know, if the church is divided, it's going to be very weak because people are going to look at the church and say, look, you guys don't even know what to say about this. You guys are all divided about this. And then it leaves a very weak church. And that's not a good place for the church to be. Right? So we're going to spend some time addressing some of these social issues and see if we can, you know, have some sort of an understanding on how to give a biblical response to these matters. I'm going to share the PDF that we put out last week. Yeah, response to social challenges. Now, could somebody read for us for Timothy chapter three verse 16, just to get us started here, for Timothy chapter three, verse 16, could somebody, sorry, verse, verse, not verse 16, we should read verse 15, for Timothy chapter three verse 15. So there's a mistake here. This should be verse 15. Could somebody read that for us, please? First Timothy 315. If I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and a buttress. Okay, thank you. So the apostle Paul is writing to Timothy and he says, you know, there's, of course, there's a proper way to conduct yourself in the house of God. Then he tells us something about the house of God, which is the local church, the house of God. The house of God is the pillar and ground of truth. Pillar, as in the upholder, you know, a pillar upholds the building structure and the ground, meaning the foundation, that means the entire structure stands on this. So the local church is the pillar and foundation of truth where in the world. So if people want to know what is truth, they should be able to look at what the church stands for. Now they should look at what the church is established on and then understand, you know, this is what truth is. So in these social challenges or social issues that we are going to, you know, list out some of these, the church should be the upholder of truth in these matters. But like we just said, the church is confronted with pressures from different areas. There is, of course, a spiritual which is, hey, you've got to stay aligned or stay a truth to the word of God. And then there is society. Society says, hey, we are changing, we want to be free, we want to, you know, we want to do our own thing. That's the pressure from society. And then there is the legislative side, because in every nation, there are laws being passed about these matters. Because these matters have so escalated, they've become so, you know, magnified that now the government is passing laws about those matters. Before it was, you know, left aside, it wasn't, it was a non-issue, many of these matters. They were non-issues. They just, okay, happened. They were maybe, you know, a rare and few, or maybe it wasn't even considered something to be taken addressed. But today these matters have become so magnified that the church is facing pressure on these matters from a spiritual, social, and legislative side, from all these sides. And the church is supposed to be the pillar and ground of truth in the world. So that's a big challenge. The other challenge is, you know, how do we uphold truth and still allow, welcome, and relate to people who disagree? You know, so, you know, on these matters, we'll say, look, this is truth. This is what the word of God says. And we as a church are not going to deviate from the word. You know, whatever the government passes as a law, that's up to them. But this is the truth. We're going to stand by it. But then how do we love the people who don't agree with us or who disagree with us? How do we love them? And what if they want to come to church? What if they want to be part of the community? Or how do we relate to them just even outside the church? So that's another thing to think about and discuss. And another question related to this is, should the church be engaged in influencing legislature on this matter? You know, is this a legal, a spiritual battle? Or should the church be engaged practically in terms of legislature? Can spiritual and moral issues be legislated? You know, meaning, example, if somebody is a homosexual, can he put a law that will prevent him from being a homosexual? Or is it more of a spiritual and moral issue? You know, so, what is it? And how are we supposed to address it? Then we have same-sex marriage. I mean, can you put a law to say same-sex marriage should not happen? Can it prevent two people of the same sex from living together and doing what they want to do? You know, or should the church focus on the spiritual side of things, which is, hey, reach these people with the love of God and bring the gospel to them and let the gospel touch their lives. So these are areas that are really challenging. How do we address these things? And then there are practical issues, as we will see. If you're running a business, if you're working in the corporate world, now big things that are happening in the corporate world is being inclusive. So they want to include everybody regardless of your sexual orientation. But then what do you do? I mean, you have certain beliefs. You know what the word of God teaches, but now if you are an HR manager in a corporate setting and your company's policy is to be inclusive and all of that, how do you have your faith and then still work in an environment like that? So these are all very difficult and practical challenges. I'm not saying that we're going to be able to answer all the questions, but what we want to do is we want to give ourselves a framework which we can use to think through and arrive at answers, biblical answers in different scenarios. Because there are probably scenarios we haven't yet encountered which will arise in the coming years in these matters, social issues. And so, you know, what it's good for us to have a framework. This is how we think about it. This is how you approach it. And therefore, this is how you make a decision when it comes to those things. So the goal here in this chapter is hopefully we can develop a framework to address not only the issues mentioned here, but you know, there will be other things that rise up in days to come. And we should be able to think through on those things, on those matters. But remember that church is supposed to be the pillar and foundation of truth. We cannot compromise that without compromising who we are as the church in society. We have to be able to respond to these things. Now, think about this whole area of marriage, homosexuality, same-sex marriage. Now, we know from scripture, and I'm not going through the chapter versus most of it, you're aware of and you will be looking at it in other courses, that publicly, God designed marriage to be between one man and one woman. And the Bible does not approve of same-sex marriage. That's against God's design. Similarly, homosexuality itself is mentioned in many places in Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6. So, it is wrong. And Revelation 20. The Bible tells us that these would not inherit the sexually moral. So, Revelation 21 and 8. So, these are wrong. Homosexuality is sin. It is wrong. And it's not approved by God. And we believe that people can be set free from this kind of lifestyle. So, Paul makes it very clear in 1 Corinthians 6, 9 through 11, when he writes to the Corinthians, you know, he mentions, you know, 1 Corinthians 6 and verse 9, he says, some of you were homosexuals. And I'm reading this here from the New King James, homosexuals. But then he says, verse 11, such were some of you, but now your war sanctified, justified. So, we know that in the name of Jesus, people who are in that homosexual lifestyle can be brought out, set free, be war sanctified, justified. But in society today, if we try to minister to people and try to help them come out of homosexuality, that itself is considered a wrong thing to do. And then in recent times in the news, they've been talking about, you know, especially in the Western world, about Christian camps and so on, which try to, our churches and ministries, that try to help people come out of this lifestyle. And they're attacking, saying, you know, you shouldn't be doing that. You know, leave these people alone. That's the way they're supposed to live. You know, so even the very truth that we proclaim and the redemption that we try to bring to people is being challenged by society. And it's called, it's being categorized as doing something wrong. So the truth we believe and the truth we practice, according to the scriptures, in this case, is being said to be wrong, right? Now, are we going to change? No, because we are the churches to be the pillar and a polar of truth. And we're saying this is the word of God, we cannot change. We will say homosexuality is a sin. And we will continue to say that God can bring people out of this kind of a lifestyle, certain free, because it's there in scripture. But we are faced with challenges. How must we relate to people who oppose what we stand for, oppose the truth that we stand for? How do we minister to people in love without condemning them? For example, if a homosexual comes to church and he wants to attend church, what should we do? And if two people of the same sex want to get married, then they come to church and say, hey, we want to get married. Can you get us married? What should we do? And then there are other, you know, scenarios of which they've been in the news in these articles from last year. For instance, if you're a business owner and two people of same sex come into the example, this actually happened. They were running a bakery and a gay couple came. They wanted to order their wedding cake. They're going to get married and the owner refused saying, I can't make a cake for you for your wedding because this is a gay couple. You'll get married. It's the same sex marriage. And I don't believe that. I don't believe that. So I refuse to make a cake. But then it became a legal issue. So there's a business owner have the right to deny a service to somebody because of their sexual orientation and their stand on same sex marriage. Or there are other scenarios where, like I said, if you're the head of human resources or the chief cultural officer in an organization and the organization has policies of inclusive and they say, okay, we want people of the same basically homosexual. So also to be given equal opportunities and all these kinds of things. What would you do? You're writing the policy. You're taking care of the human resources there. How would you handle it? If you're a chief minister and you're a believer, I mean, you're in government, you're a believer, you're head of a state. And there are people saying, we want equal rights for homosexuals. We want equal rights for same sex marriages. What would you do? How would you handle it? Or the local church. Like I said, if an homosexual wants to attend service, what would you do? If they want to have marriages, what would you do? So I'm going to pause here and I just would like to hear the thoughts of people in the class. How would you respond to these kinds of situations? What are your thoughts? Just to discuss in class about this. And then we will get into a framework that I would like to present to us. So please feel free to share your thoughts. Okay. Somebody's got to start. Pastor Kani. Go ahead. Thank you, Pastor. In that case, as you said, we have to show the scripture and the original divine plan of God behind the marriage. Like how, why the God has created the marriage and what is the plan of God behind it? And then we will make them understand by showing the truth. And as you said, we can only win them through the love only because without love, we cannot bring them out because this is the time where they are ignorant because of the the power of the darkness is blinded, their mind and only the love and the word of God can only bring them out, bring them out from the darkness. So I think so the approach of love and with the power of the word, we have to counsel them, we have to pray over them. And if it, like as you said, it's not a natural thing, it's a demonic influence. So we have to pray and deliver them, make them understand the truth and the original plan of God's behind the marriage. Because many times people just understand that people just think that marriage means just, you know, just a male and a female or, you know, it's just something to keep physical attraction. But so many things, we will just as with the support of the word, we will counsel them and we will make them to understand the truth. And I think so that is the only way we through which we can able to win them. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So let's thank you. Let's look at the scenarios. And I'll try to do this as quickly as possible. So if, if a homosexual wants to attend your local church, okay, he wants to worship. And, you know, if he comes there, what would be your reaction? How would you relate? What would, you know, and imagine you are the pastor? So he wants to attend church. How would you handle it? Good morning, pastor. Good morning. How are you? I'm good, sir. Thanks. In our local church, we have a young man who is a homosexual and he came into the church because of his mother and he attended church and he, he helps, he says he finds, he's there because he finds joy in serving. So the only place that he is willing to, to the pastor allow him to, to, to save, it is the coffee shop. So it's not there because you want, you want to, he knows Jesus, he doesn't know Jesus yet, yet the pastor allow him to, to save in the coffee area because he told the pastor that he, by him being there, he feels like he doesn't know what to do. And so the pastor allow him to be there so that he can be influenced by other people and he allow him to, to join other, like youth meetings so that he can hear teachings and he can also participate in prayer. By that, the pastor believe that God will work in his heart and through time he will come to understand the gospel because he's confused, he doesn't know what to do. So he's there to seek help. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I see Tarun and Christopher's comments, let him attend. Beth has a question which I think we will come to right after this. Srikumar, do you have something you wanted to say? Yeah, I just have a question, sir. Just want to know like, many times people will not openly come and tell the pastor that they are homosexual. So how we will able to identify because this is one of the things which most of the people want to hide them and every time we will never take a message saying about the homosexuality where they will understand. So how and we are always praying, speaking about grace and love and God's deliverance. How a person can suddenly be able to tell the pastor that I am a person like this. So in that case, when we are not, when we are unaware about that thing and how we will approach such people, sometimes that can be possible, like when it is a bigger crowd and pastor maybe not able to interact with individuals many times. So in that case, how we can identify that truth. Thank you, pastor. That's just one question I just want to know. Thank you. That's a good point because obviously when you have many people attending, you won't know their private lives, personal lives unless they come and willingly share. And you are right. We are not addressing that issue every time or every Sunday. It may come up here and there, the reading of the scriptures, but so that's also a challenge. So unless God himself in some way exposes it or brings it to light, we will not know. It is very possible that people like any other kind of sin, they could keep it secret. Nobody will know. But as a shepherd, as overseer, you are praying, we are expecting that God will address these things just by His presence, by the preaching of the Word, or bring it to light in some manner. So that's a good point and we just have to trust God to bring it to light. But if somebody does come and share or we get to know somebody who's like that, then how should we relate to that person? We'll take thoughts from Nalini and also Kennedy. Please go ahead, Abraham. Nalini, please go ahead. Let's see. Kennedy, go ahead. Kennedy, go ahead. My question is just about some of us come from a brewing family. They've been doing beer business or alcohol for a long time. So is it ethical or is it proper for a believer to participate in an ad-bat that promotes smoking or work in a beer and packaging plant? That's your advice on that. Say that again, Kennedy. I just kind of heard the last part of what you said. Is it okay for believers to participate in advertisements that promote smoking and those kinds of things? Is that your question? Exactly. Yeah, correct. Yeah, definitely. Those of you who work for this beer and packaging company, those who work for beer and packaging company, is it okay for a believer? Is it okay for a believer to work in a company that produces alcoholic beverages? Yeah, so my response is no, right? Because we don't want to be part of that, something that's actually destroying people's lives. So we don't want to be part of that, so we definitely look for a job somewhere else. We don't get employed in a company that's creating products that are destructive or against our moral standards and values. We would not engage in that. Then there is this area where, for example, fashion design, a believer involved in fashion design. Of course, yes, believers can be involved in that, but make sure your designs are in such a way that honor God and so we have to walk, as believers, walk the righteous path, even in that kind of an industry. Yes, please go ahead, Mrs. Oliver. Pastor, sorry I was speaking and I didn't realize I was on mute. Pastor, thank you so much, first of all, for this question because on Tuesday, I'm going to have to speak to a 14-year-old girl who tells me that homosexuals are we are genetically wired. So while I have prepared biblical reasons for this, but I just want to know this word, genetically wired, are they genetically wired? She gives examples of even transgender eunuchs. She says, right from childhood, from five years, there has been an inclination not to wear skirts but to wear pants. It's the other way around. So just a little clarification on that, Pastor. All right, so we will pick up the question, I think, is related to what Beth has put earlier. So there are a couple of things. We can't always speak everything to a person. I'm just sharing this for us to understand. And then we need to always speak truth and love. So when you are speaking to the person, there's some information you may not necessarily talk about because it may be alarming. But let's look at it. So in the natural standpoint, there was a study put out about the NIH in the U.S., I think by Johns Hopkins, not NIH, but Johns Hopkins University. And I don't have the link to study, but you can google it, where the paper that was put out basically said that the idea that homosexual tendencies is linked to genetics is not true. So this was put out by Johns Hopkins University, so you can google it. So now when people are saying, look, you know, these are genetically predisposed to this kind of behavior, these kind of tendencies, that's very questionable. So that's one thing. Secondly, could it be like what Beth has mentioned, life experiences and so on? Well, it all depends on how we respond to life experiences. For example, if two people are abused as children, it doesn't mean that every person who's abused as a child or goes through certain, you know, abusive experiences or harsh experiences in their childhood or all end up becoming homosexuals. That's not true. So again, we can say that look to come to this conclusion that just because you've been through a life experience, a certain kind of life experience that's abusive or so on, which has caused you to become a homosexual or to be predisposed to this kind of a lifestyle, is not true because there are others who've gone through similar experiences who are not given themselves over to or not predisposed to a homosexual lifestyle. So to arrive at that conclusion again will not be true. Spiritually, what do we know? And this is something we don't go and tell people, but we have this understanding. One, we know that this is against God's design. First of all, second, therefore it is a deviation from God's design because of the fall. Third, many of these lifestyles can eventually be energized by unclean spirits. So deliverance is involved. So we know this, but we can't go and tell them. This is what's happening, but we know it. So I think the way we, just to wrap this up, our approach in, so if a homosexual comes to church or and they tell, told us, look, this is my life. So I think, first of all, we have to be loving to them. That is, we understand just like any other sinner, sin is sin, whether it's homosexuality, whether it's adultery, whether it's stealing or lying or gossiping or only in our minds we classify them, but ultimately sin is sin. So what we are saying, okay, what I'm saying is, just as we know, so what is our response? We must be loving, welcome them, but work with them through love, through, in a loving way, not in a forceful way, not in a condemning way, work with them if they are willing to receive, to see them transformed by the power of God and in the name of Jesus. So love them and help them on the journey. But not everybody is willing to go on this journey. In fact, today there's a big backlash against the church for trying, even trying to help people make this journey, okay. There's a big backlash or criticism of the church and even attempting to engage with people on this transformative journey. They're against it. So, you know, but we still have to do it lovingly for those who are willing to go on it. But if people are not willing, at some point we have to take a stand because one, you know, we need to tell them, look, if you want to be part of this community, this is the standard by which we live, right? So while we will accommodate, but there's a line, you know, you cannot continue in sin and expect to be part of God's community. So that line has to be drawn somewhere. Otherwise, what will happen is they could actually bring that influence into the church and more people could go down that path. So we also, as a pastor, we have to be careful about that. Okay. Okay, pastor, one more to add to this. Then there was another child who put up Romans 124 and he says, then God gave them up to their uncleanness or, you know, something it states like that. So she says it is God who made us like this. So they are quoting that scripture. Yeah, so what we have to do is, okay, let's read the whole passage. Read the verses before and let's read the verses after all the way into chapter two. So when just God gave them up, it's that statement, God gave them up, I think is mentioned at least three times in the passage. God gave them up to their wild passions. God gave them up to their corrupt, depraved mind. God gave them up. So it doesn't mean God is approving of it. It just means God has let them go into their wrong things. Ultimately, the passage ends by saying all of these who do such things will end up in the wrath of God. So we just have to get them to read the verses before and after and see, okay, what's the conclusion of the matter? The matter is, God let people go in these things, but they all ended up under the wrath of God. Chapter two begins. I put it down as like it is your choice. I mean, I've written down notes for them like it's your choice. Like God gave them that choice. Is that the right way to tell them? Yes. This is the choice that you have, God is allowing them, allowing you to make? That's correct. It's a choice, you know. That's what God's doing. Okay. Thank you, Pastor. All right. Can I ask one more question? Go ahead, Kennedy. What I wanted to just inquire is the issue of blood transfusion. Because I've seen cases where some pastors advise their congregants not to donate blood. What's your advice on that? Yeah, my question is, maybe something to do with participating in these things that are genetically modified. Is it like foodstuff or genetically modified blood transfusion? So we will come to genetics. I put down that as a separate point in this chapter. You will come to it. Blood transfusion, I think there's nothing really wrong. I'm just speaking in general terms. I mean, of course, if you want to give chapter and verse, we can quote, you know, the scripture from Acts where it says, God is made from one blood, all the nations, but that's not medically, it's just, okay. But what I'm saying is what I want to say is that, you know, donating blood, blood transfusion, medically it's safe, right? You know, we know that individuals have certain, there are these four, I think four blood types. And then they, of course, they transfuse. They give the person the same blood type as the donor's blood should match the recipient's blood. And it saves life because, you know, that's needed. So and blood transfusion is not genetically modifying the person. It's not a thing. It's just saving the life of the person or helping the life of the person. So medically it's safe. Therefore, there's nothing wrong in doing that. The Bible specifically, of course, doesn't speak to that particular scenario of blood transfusion. So therefore, whenever the Bible is silent, God wants us to arrive at a conclusion based on what is revealed and based on our best understanding. So on both sides, blood transfusion is not harmful. It's not, I don't see it as something against God. Okay. Going back to what we were talking about this whole thing about homosexuality and same-sex marriage, I'll just, you know, I thank you for sharing your thoughts. And what I want to just present to us is, you know, we need to have some sort of a framework by which we arrive at decisions, especially, you know, in these kinds of matters. Right. And the best way to do arrive at this framework is look at God. How does God deal with us as sinners? Right. Here's some of things that we can conclude. One is God does not override human will. Okay. So, you know, if people make a choice, just like we mentioned a little earlier, as Mrs. Oliver was mentioning, if people make a choice, he doesn't, you know, hit them on the head and say, why do you make a wrong choice? No, he doesn't override human will. He lets people go according to their choice. Right. But what does God do? He expresses or he tells us what is right and wrong. Then he invites us to choose what is right. So he sets before us life and death. And he says, choose life. So he says, look, this is right. This is wrong. I want you to choose what's right. So that's how God works. So when we deal with people, that's part of our framework. God is also willing to reason with us, which is, okay, let's sit down, let's discuss, let's reason. Right. So we should be willing to reason with people, listen to what they have to say, and then we provide our answers. God treats everybody with love and fairness. He makes the sun to shine on the good and the bad. He gives rain to the good and the bad. So we must treat everybody equally with love and fairness. But God does not compromise himself. He is truth, holy, just, loving. He doesn't compromise himself in his dealing with the sinner. Right. He doesn't say, okay, sinner, I love you so much, so I'll just overlook your sin. No, he loves the sinner, but he also addresses the sin. So I want to just present this as a little framework for us in how we think. Right. That is, let's not try to override their choice. We can't force on them truth. We can't force truth on people. And you cannot force truth on people even through legislation. That's what you think about it. I mean, it's good to have laws that are lying to the word of God, but remember, you can't legislate morality. You can't legislate truth into human will, because ultimately people are going to do what they want to do. We can have all the laws, but people are going to do what they want to do. Right. So keep that thought in mind. You cannot override human will with truth, but we can definitely express what's right and wrong and encourage people to choose what's right. We can reason with them. We can, we must treat people with love and fairness even if they don't agree with us. That's how God is. Right. He makes the rain to fall even on the sinner, but we don't compromise ourselves. We don't compromise our truth, our position on the truth. We know what the Bible says. Personally, we will live by it. Personally, we'll pursue it. So that means we will pray, we will intercede, that people are willing to receive, we will minister healing, we will minister deliverance and wholeness, help them journey into the truth without compromising ourselves. So keep this in mind. We need to keep this in mind in the decisions we make. Right. So for example, if you go back to the scenario where a person comes to church and says, I'm a homosexual, he tells you, well, we're not going to immediately force him to stop, but we're going to explain to him the Word of God. We're going to be willing to listen and reason with him. We're going to treat him with love and fairness. But then there's a point where we say, look, this is where things, this is the line that we draw. We can't, we will not compromise truth just to accommodate him. God doesn't do that. God just let the wicked forsake his way. So we will have to say, look, at the comes a time when you'll have to make a choice. And beyond this, we will not be able to accommodate you because this is where truth and love intersect. And if you cross this line, you have to embrace truth. And, you know, we cannot compromise truth for the sake of love. God doesn't do that. He is truth and love, and he doesn't compromise either part of himself. So, you know, that's, that's something that God has to give us wisdom in and learn as you work with the individuals and work with them. Okay. Let's pause here. We reached our break time. And yeah, so let's come back after, after our break. We'll continue with this discussion. Okay. Back in 10 minutes. Thanks.