 Rhaid i'w meddwl i'w clwn i'w cyflawn i'r bwysnesau a fyddai'r gwahod dros y ffordd geni'r cwynod gweithio. Rwy'n gweithio'r gyda Jack Morris, rydyn ni'n ddigonio'r pannol'r rhan o'r fawr o ei gwasanaethau i'r plan cyflawni. Yw Jack, rwyf yn ei chael o'r pwysig sy'n cymryd i'r Cyfleteidio CGFI ac yn dweud y Secretary o'r ffordd cwylio'r cwylio'r cwylio'r Cyfleteidio CGFI a'r E3G. Jack, rwy'n i'n gyd. Yn ei ddweud, Rywyn. Rwy'n i'n ddweud i'r Minister i'r Eon i Ben. Mae'n dweud i'r ddweud i'r ddweud i'r cwylio'r cyfleteidio'r cyfleteidio'r cyfleteidio'r a'r sgwpiaid cyfnod. Ac oes y byddwch yn ddechrau'r ddau i'r gwael iawn, yn mynd i'r wybod yma. Yn ymddangosio yma, oeddwn i'n meddwl am ddigonol o fynd i ddau gyda'r panel. Felly, mae'r drfynu Oesfanyos Saminsky, rhai'r ysgrifennu gyda cyfnod i'r cyfnod i'r cyflwyno a'r ddysgu'r Ysgrifennu i'r cyflwyno i'r ddysgu'r ac yn ystod o'r CCC's Adaptation Committee. Rwy'n meddwl Tim Rawlings, yw'r co-head o'r Climbwch Cymru ar y Bank of England. Jennifer Bell, vice-president o'r Climbwch Cymru ar Barclays, ac Matt Scott, yw'r senior director o'r Climbwch Cymru a Rhywun i'r Climbwch Cymru ar W2W. Felly, rydw i'r cymdeithas, rydw i'r cymdeithas o'r TPD. Rhywun ymdau cymdeithas yw'r CCC yn ystod o'r Cymru ar gyfer y dyfodol strategaeth o'r cymdeithas yn ymddangos cymdeithas, ac mae hynny yn gweithio cymdeithas ac yn gweithio'r cymdeithas yn y rhaglen cymdeithas. Felly, rydyn ni'n ddau'r cymdeithas yw'r cymdeithas yw'r cymdeithas ac mae'r cymdeithas yw'r cymdeithas i ddylai'r cymdeithas. Felly, rydyn ni'n gweithio ar CCC 26, mae'n gweithio'r cymdeithas. Mae'r rydyn ni'n gwybod am y dnowy achos y gallu llinwyr cymdeithas i yw'r cymdeithas ac sydd ychydig mynd i chi gefnogaeth i'r cymdeithas sydd yma'r cymdeithas. Felly, rydyn ni'n rwy'n gweithio ar y cymdeithas yw'r cymdeithas yw'r cymdeithas yn ymddangos gyda'r cymdeithas a yw'r cymdeithas yw'r cymdeithas ac mae'r cymdeithas yw'r cymdeithas yw'r cymdeithas. Matt, rydw i'n ffrwng ychydig i'r gweithio, ac oedd y rhai hynny'n meddwl gyda'r gweithio'r gweithio, mae'r argynnu'r gweithio'n gweithio'n amser ac yna sut mae'r gweithio'n gweithio? Mae ychydig i'r gweithio. Felly, fel gdyngor y dywed yw'r yrhaid, byddwn i'n gweithio'r cael ffyrdd eich cyfnod o'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio. I also got to lead the first green finance strategy at you and the CGFI and even GFI were just words on the page so it's really really exciting to see so many people here. See the UK continue to cement its leadership in green finance and I think TPD in a way I think brings many of the learnings and insights that we've had over the last 10 years or so together into a common framework. One of the things that we hear quite consistently as we were thinking through transition plan disclosures was the need to develop a framework and an approach that would drive the right behaviours to address climate risk both at the level of individual firms as well as the future risk that we face and the systemic issue that we're all here to address Io'r rhaid gan gweithio'r bach cyfnodd cyd-dwylliant, gan nhw'n ffordd iddo gan gweithio'r ffordd, ond mae'r ffordd yn gwneud yn gwneud yn oeddo i'r bach yn y cyflogrwynt. Yn mynd i chi'n gwybod, mae'r ffeisio'r arbennig iawn i'r rhan i'n unedig yn yr oedd, ac i'r regueltor yn yw Teimlo Cymru, ac yna'r modd honno'n cyflogwyr. rwyf y nfaith mae'n gweithredu iawn gwnaethfain, mewn gwirloedd sydd achos â chyfnod ffordd, a rwyf bod hynny'n hi dweud yr ysgolau diwethaf yn ymlaen. Mae'n dechrau i'r roiidd honno wneud o blaenau'r rwyf y mewn gwirchwyr, ac mae yna nifer yw'r rysgaf uchydig i'r arsigaf yflaenau'r ddechrau, ac felly rydyn ni wedi ei wneud trefwn hefyd o'r hefyd. Oherwydd, y byddwch'r pêl sydd y cilyddau erfynion fyddwch yn rhoi eich g식l y rherau yn ychwaneg iawn, yn ddaeth boiledio'r cymiannol o'r fyddwch yn erioedwchol o'r hwyl iawn, yn y cynnigon cymiannol, mae yno gwestiynydd peth fyddwch yn ddifodol. Mae'n bwysig o'r gwasanaeth ysgol yn gynnigol, ac mae'n gweithio'r fyddwch yn gwybod yn cael ei chymau. Felly, mae'n ddweud yn gweithio'r llaw ysgol, Wrth gwrs, y dyfodol yng Nghymru tsefnu'r FFT er mwyn i'r dysgu'r negreidwyr rhanu'r ffordd o'r bwrth i'r gwrs. Yn dweud ychydig, amgylcheddu ymddug sydd o'r portfodiw yn oed ddim yn ei ddigonol i'r ddysgu'r ffordd o'r ffordd, a'r cyfnodau sy'n ddannu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu. Fe yna'r ffarns rai'r cyfnoddau ei wneud i'r ffordd, but well positioned. So, take, for example, mining lithium, mining copper, quite high carbon intensive activities, but actually quite financially well positioned for the transition. Take the service sector companies, service sector companies tend to be low carbon in their emissions, but if you're serving the oil and gas sector, you're probably quite exposed to transition risk still. So, firstly, getting the clarity that an important aspect of the transition is integrating climate-related financial risks and opportunities. rhaid i'r cyfgluon i phoesii gynlluniaol yn ffinoffaidd. Rhun o'i wneud y llyいやau efallai efallai gynlluniaol yn fynd i'r arwinell y net-zero ar ôl o'n ffeithio argyrchu na ddafyn a wrth gwrs, ac yn beth oedd yn beth y net-zero arwinell ac ymateb yn ffrwng yn y gallu effeithio eich gwneud yr oedd y cyfrwng yn y cerdd mewn ddafyn. A rôl i'r ddweud euiblech ychydig o'i gwrth ni ddwyng. am y cydweithio cyllid ymgylchedd ymlaen. Yma hwn yn ddod ar gyfer y cyfrifudd ac ymgylchedd yn teimlo'r cyfeiriaeth a hwn yn gallu'n cyfrifudd yw'r cyfrifydd, fel y byddwn yn ei bod yn ei hynny'r anhygoel yr anhygoel ar gyfer y cyfrifydd ymlaen. Ym ni'n byw'r anhygoel ar gyfer y cyfrifydd ymlaen ymgylchedd ym ynglynig. Ac mae'n gweithio y gallwn cyfrifydd ar gyfer y cyfrifydd ymlaen, ond they want to play out really as part this strategic and rounded approach, again to just highlight the fact that transition planning is focused and is important to be looking through the net-zero lens of your own emissions, but it's also broader than that so we can make sure that we have a whole economy transition. ..AMAME transfers. Maybe I'll stop there as a initial framing- ..of where we've landed and our landing as part of a TPT. Beversent. Thank you, Matt. There's so much in there. Please catch, Matt, in the coffee break.. ..because the framework is so large and there's lots to talk about. So, Jen. If we can turn to Bartlett's experience here. Could you say out a bit about why transition plans.. ..are important for financial institutions.. both from using a plan to preparing one. Yeah, absolutely, Leanne. Thank you for having me on this panel as well today. So as a preparer of a transition plan, I think we've already heard about the really valuable level of detail that goes into it, the wealth of information that you have to put into a plan and how valuable those can be both as a preparer when you're going through that process but also putting that out for your stakeholders to use that information. I really see a step change in thinking the transition plan drives when you go through the process of preparing one. When I was at the Bank of England several years ago, I was working on the bank's first TCFD report. I saw the just step change that that kind of process can have in an organisation and I really see the same thing happening now. Potentially even to a greater degree in transition planning as you're thinking about forward-looking issues and really getting as you search under the hood of just a target that at a high level is quite simplistic. But maybe if I focus a bit more on a user, us being a user of transition plans, financial institutions own transition is really a reflection of their clients' transitions. And so we are really, really interested in what our clients are saying in their transition plans so that we can make the best assessment of our own risks and opportunities for the transition. Specifically at Barclays, we evaluate our clients' transition plans for all the clients in sectors that we've set targets for. We do this through our client transition framework where we look across anything they've put out in disclosures but transition plans definitely seem to be at the top of providing the most useful information. We look at quantitative metrics, so their mission targets but also their current emissions and their historical emissions trying to get a sense of, you know, where are they now? Where are they going? But where have they come from to get a sense of what really is their pathway? But importantly, it's the qualitative things that add the colour to the discussion and that's where transition plans really come in because the framework that the TBT has set out really sets out so many different metrics that we like to look at in our clients' transition. So things like governance, what are they doing in terms of the executive compensation being linked to targets? Is the board approving the plan? But also really tangible on-the-ground metrics, things like are they using the low-carbon technology that they need to be using in that sector if they're going to get to net zero? Are they backing up their transition plan or their targets with clear green capex and op-ex? Because that is when you know this is actually going to get delivered and those sorts of things mirror with the ambition of a target but give the credibility underneath it. And we take all this information together and we try and bucket our clients into sort of one-to-five buckets to give us a sense of who's in line with net zero and in line with our own targets that we have for that sector and who's at most at risk of falling behind. And those buckets are really useful internally but if I maybe pick out two stats that maybe help to demonstrate the point of why it's important to go beyond just targets. We found through our reviews last year 80% of the clients that we review had a climate target. 80%? Great. Of those clients we reviewed, 60% had tied the achievement of their targets to executive compensation and that gap shows you maybe there is a little bit more colour that you need in just taking that target on its own because it shows potentially and that's just a very simplistic way of looking at it but potentially there are some clients that are really pushing their targets and are really going to deliver and maybe some that we might want to take a closer look at. And things like the transition plan task force framework developing really robust transition plans is going to help us to get the information that we need because one thing we did find is that there is definitely a lack of detailed information out there that we want to see but we're just not seeing to the level of granularity and it's definitely not the comparability that we would like and one key thing is that green CAPEX, OPEX staff that I raised earlier that's something that definitely there's still way to go on that. And as we see the transition plans improving on our clients it's great news for us because we can make even more use of them when we see where our clients are falling in those five buckets we can start to integrate into things like capital allocation decisions into our engagement prioritisation and ultimately we can go background to the loop of preparing our own transition plan and pick out things like where are our key dependencies? Where are our key levers that we can pull to really help drive the transition? So I see the two user and preparer are really fundamental but we're very much looking forward to the scaling up and the improvement in transition plans that will come as the TPT's frameworks embedded across the real economy. Thanks, Jen. There's some really startling stats there that just give us an indication. And I suppose what we're seeing is really future regulation might well come in but we also have this downward pressure through the value chain and the expectations that are already coming in there on clients. So, Sfenya, can I turn to you a little bit? Given the professional services focus of Marsh McLean what are the uses for transition plans across the financial sector perhaps going beyond a little bit of what Jen's set out there? And where are your own clients on this, Jen? Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here and I have to start by saying congratulations to the CGFI and I say this a bit tongue-chique because a couple of years ago I was running the competing bit at LSE with a few partners and I have to admit at that time I was gutted when this consortium won but seeing what actually happened since and also being part of this event here there are no heart feelings so congratulations and very excited because I think also what my role at Marsh McLean in sort of tries to capture is really this translation element between science between the commercial activities and also policy and regulation and I've been doing this throughout my career but I think when it comes to transition planning ultimately if you don't really engage in all three then you're going to hit some roadblocks. So what we do at Marsh McLean and so I work across I sit at the group level and we have four companies. Marsh, an insurance broker, I carpenter, re-insurance broker, MRSA, asset manager and Oliver Wyman a risk consultancy firm. So what we do is we basically help make organisations more successful and the transition is a part of that and what I really enjoy is that it forces me also to step out of the echo chamber and that's something I would like to leave all of you with. I mean it's great to work in the science community with the leaders and sort of developing really cutting edge solutions and I think that is obviously really necessary but it's also really important to step out of that echo chamber and engage with those who are really at the beginning of the journey and for a lot of companies, you know, transition plans are scary. Let's just put it that way, I mean they are really complex and they are scary, it's not rocket science but it is complex and I think what's been interesting over the last maybe two years you know I think the first part was the ambition and I think a lot of companies have sort of embraced that and have set out what the ambition is and now it's obviously the challenge of translating that into action and making those targets something real and influencing decisions based on your targets and I think this is where we've framed the term saying commercially smart transition because I think you have to recognise that the transition also needs to happen while businesses operate having to deal with a lot of other challenges if we just look back last year and this term doing the transition during a poly crisis we've seen what we often call the energy trilemma of your energy costs, energy security and then sustainability and I think all of that we need to recognise that when we look at transition plans and that doesn't mean that should taper down our ambition no far from it but I think it's a useful reality check and I think it sort of puts the onus on the science community also on policy makers and also on services firms to help to do a lot of hand holding and to show what is feasible and to use positive examples and you know fortunately there are lots of positive examples because that's what I find inspiring I mean I need a lot of clients a lot of companies across different sectors who really starting to sort of not just look through this in terms of emission and accounting for emission but they're starting to ask okay what about just transition? How do we make sure that this is done in a fair way and consider that nature starting to realise we can't have the transition without functioning ecosystems and biodiversity? and then the mice of background comes from the resilience and adaptation side and you know there is a growing recognition that we will not achieve net zero we don't address already the changing climate so that makes it all three put a lot of pressure on the quality of the transition and I think that's where you know where we also need to be realistic that a lot of companies need help and maybe the one point just last week I was talking to you know medium sized companies and the number one issue that came up was skills they said we just do not have enough people internally to help us deliver on this and you know you would say wow that's a great story you know great green jobs well but these companies operate under a lot of pressure and for them to go out and just hire you know is sometimes really difficult or where are these skilled people and you know looking at my LSE job you know after that meeting I went back to the LSE and I said skills what are we doing you know how many courses are we offering but it's obviously not that simple and then the last point I know there's a lot of focus on data analytics and wow I've been doing you know work in this space and Rowan and I we've been sort of challenging the industry on getting better with data analytics and I think this is really important but what is equally important is the sort of governance corporate governance around the analytics and I'll just leave you with another start unfortunately also not a very good one we've done some work in the US and only 15% of boards of corporates across different sectors had some form of oversight over the climate analytics that the companies were engaged in so you know only 15% well I think that under that there are lots of challenges but the key thing is and that's something that we as at Marsh McLennan really try to bring home you need to internalize this you know corporate governance need to embrace this and it's not something that you can outsource and you know climate analytics wouldn't it be great if I just get you know the right metrics from someone and then just put them into my equation and then job done well that's not how it works and that's what makes it so difficult so you know the corporate side corporate risk governance is really important in this Yeah thanks there's so much in there about providing support and reassurance and I suppose ultimately these boards will have to be comfortable with the transition plan that is produced so having more oversight over the methodologies and being more comfortable with the data Tim, if we can come to you now for the sort of policy regulatory side of all of this what are the regulatory use cases of transition plans and how is the Bank of England considering this? So first of all thank you for inviting me lovely to be here I think it's very useful to sort of the flow of the agenda say for all because Barrett's pen very neatly set out the UK's green finance strategy which sort of sets up not just sort of the role of transition plans but sort of also wider disclosure as well and Jen has already done half my job for me by talking about the one use case but when I'm talking about sort of our perspective as a regulator what I really wanted to do was sort of trying to illuminate that with two use cases so the first was financial institutions as users of transition plans as Jen has already spoken to so using those corporates but also counterparties for their own purposes second is the regulator's use of financial institutions transition plans both I think are core and key to sort of our wider objectives as well so on the first about financial institutions as users of transition plans I think we've touched on it several times today but sort of transition planning and transition plans are a key part of the transition finance framework of how we sort of get from where we are today to sort of mobilising capital having efficient allocation of capital to sort of drive transition forward from a regulator's perspective I'm concerned with sort of the elements around ensuring the resilience of the financial system to the impacts of climate change as well as enabling it to sort of finance that transition while sort of still being resilient to all of those outcomes and one of the lessons we took from the scenario exercise to see that we ran last year and published the results on was that overall costs will be lowest and the opportunity is greatest from an orderly transition and I really think that speaks to sort of the need of transition finance frameworks and sort of mobilising capital and while designers transition plans provide this forward information which Jen has already spoken about on how customers and clients and counterparties are starting to address climate where are they going, what's their strategy, what are their financing needs but also importantly how are they managing risks that forward looking information can then sort of then be internalised as Jen has also said on strategy setting but for us importantly it also feeds into effective risk management it reduces the uncertainty about what their customers and clients are doing in the future where they're going but also provides more detailed information sort of reflect it back into effective risk management Second use case regulators use of transition plans so one of the things we look at as a supervisor and as a regulator is how are the financial institutions we look at what's their strategy that organisational strategy is a core component including a core component of the Bank of England's own supervisor expectations for banks and insurers in the UK in terms of understanding that strategy to then understand the risks associated with that strategy to then play that through to whether the risk management framework is commensurate with those risks so for us as a user of that information also to help us understand where the financial firms are going so what does that indicate for transition plans then generally for me it really speaks to the thing one of the things we've really touched on really which is there are going to be many uses of transition plans there's shareholders there's finances and investors there's regulators as well as understanding sort of just the general trajectory of the transition as well and so one of the ways in which I think about this conversation is thinking about transition planning and transition plans as through the lens of one plan but multiple users I think that goes to the core sort of designing for example the TPT framework but when we think about the wider implementation of it as well and I think that is crucial because a transition plan should be integrated and reflected in an organisation's wider strategy it's not a separate strategy it speaks to the core of the strategy it's just a reflection of the transition component so we wouldn't want to see multiple plans but we should design the framework so that strategies are reflected and usable by other firms but also that approach also then helps to maximise the benefits in a proportionate way from the production and sort of development of these plans we talked about they do take investment they take time speaking with a different part of my hat on in terms of developing the Bank of England's own plan for our physical operations we committed to do that last year sort of we're thinking about the policy side of this but we also know firsthand some of the challenges and lessons that are learned and actually developing that plan ourselves so in summary we're continuing to support transition plan task force engaging with the government through green finance strategy reflecting on our role as supervisors and what our use case is without creating any fragmentation but we sort of then need to ensure and encouraging this approach of firstly whole economy transition as well I think is key as Matt has pointed out but also multiple users but a single plan and that is a way to sort of maximising this cost benefit of developing these plans Thanks very much Tim I think we're really hearing a call for action about resourcing your teams to make sure that the organisations are able to put these complex plans together Matt you've spoken a little bit about the strategic and rounded approach and perhaps we can pull out a piece around engagement and also Tim you'll lead it to some of this too can you speak about why engagement is important and how we might expect to see that in a transition plan Yeah sure and I think we're probably all familiar with the sort of engagement versus divestment debates that happen I think just to put it in context the TPT has five different pillars in terms of what it's looking for firms to disclose so firstly foundations then implementation strategy engagement strategy metrics and targets and then governance so engagement is one of the five main pillars of the TPT framework it's probably worth also mentioning that we have been working really closely hand in glove with G-fans the framework that we're putting forward you'll see is also reflected in the work that G-fans is doing and I think it's part again of this transition in thinking if you like around the focus on an economy-wide transition and what can the financial sector do with the levers and capabilities that it has to make a difference and accelerate the transition in the real economy and similarly I think for those close to G-fans you may see a similar sort of transition in thinking happen a little bit in what G-fans is recommending as well this sort of focus beyond just reducing financed emissions to really reducing emission reductions in the real economy and engagement we would see as one of the tools the financial sector has to help steward that whole economy transition I think in the TPT framework we talk about engagement with governments, we talk about engagement with other industry players engagement with customers consumers and obviously that's something that the whole economy can do whatever sector that you're in to help engage and encourage the behaviors that we need to get to a whole economy transition so I think again it's really just acknowledging the need to think through what the financial sector can do to really make a difference to the future risk that we face that are coming from global emissions not just portfolio emissions and I think it's fair to acknowledge that this is a frontier area isn't it that you know this whole idea that we've never really had to collectively manage a future risk by taking action today and it's quite hard to know what is going to make a difference and I just perhaps point to you before I finish some of the great work that's happening maybe some people here are involved with it I see Joe down there in terms of the climate financial risk forum building out a set of metrics that covers these use cases including metrics for mobilizing financing to climate solutions and some really helpful work that's been done around engagement obviously it's hard to attribute the impact you might be having but there's some interesting thinking that is developing and I think is an area of key research that we all need to continue to explore this idea of climate stewardship Thank you Matt Jen can we explore a little bit how Barclays goes about this and perhaps particularly with governments and policy makers Yeah of course Matt was saying there's sort of the three areas within the TPT framework where it asks you to set out what you're doing on engagement on the client side I've already touched on a little bit that we want to factor in these sort of assessments that we do through that but engagement really with clients is sort of the best way that a bank can support the transition rather than Matt was saying the investment argument but being there with our clients as they transition is really the best way we can help promote it and that is particularly true for those high carbon sectors we obviously talk to clients all the time we already engage with them but on specific climate measures factoring in things like the assessments we make will allow us to really prioritize where to focus our engagement largely on those that see most at risk of falling behind in the transition and really develop the products the education that they need to help them to get back on track and develop the skills internally that they need because that's the best way that we're going to have a whole economy transition is by bringing every company along the way with us on the sort of industry side I mean there are probably four or five pages in our annual report that set out all the different industry groups that we're a member of these are immensely helpful to everybody that's trying to figure out all these very thorny issues in what is effectively still uncharted territory and you know I personally stood on a number of them the banking for impact on climate and action sets out agriculture target setting guidance last year that was incredibly helpful to get sort of banks together to figure out how to do this it's definitely a fundamental part of sort of broader engagement outside of clients and then focusing as you asked Jack on the sort of public policy government side of things this is definitely a fundamental part as well because we are so aware that we can't factor we can't there's a financial sector and certainly not as an individual bank drive the transition on our own and the transition in a number of sectors in particular is really fundamentally reliant on sort of government and public policy a key one of those sectors is sort of residential real estate where some retrofitting policy that is so we are so reliant on sort of governments to act there and we will do our part involved in that and so sort of engaging with public policy is therefore something we see as our responsibility to make sure that we are sort of supportive of those public policy action that we need and in particular those real economy pathways are something that are so useful for a financial sector institution as we develop our approach and Baroness Penn touched on it earlier that they set out some of these road maps are really key sectors in clean tech but the more of those real economy sector pathways that we have the better we can align our transition strategy sort of to that and sort of promote it as smoothly as possible engagement with government and public policy takes a number of different formats there's the typical sort of responding to consultations that we do quite rigorously and we publish all of our consultation responses on our website there's also participating in working groups with the TPT being a really key example here and Barclays sits on we were participating in the sandbox we sit on a number of the working groups because we really want to help provide our expertise and help shape the agenda for that not just for the framework that we're going to be disclosing against but also the framework that our clients will be disclosing against in those real economy sectors because that's the way we can make sure that the data that we want that I spoke to earlier is coming out from our clients as well and then also there's sort of indirect policy engagement that happens through the trade associations that we're a member of and this is equally as important obviously they represent these trade associations represent a big group of actors and what is important is, as the TPT says is to make sure that those trades are representing the views of its members in a way that is sort of aligned with net zero and so we started a piece of work last year where we tried to look at our most material trade associations and see you know climate policy position aligned with net zero and aligned with therefore our aims as a bank and what we found is they don't have a climate policy position very often so that's quite a challenge so definitely something that's more of a focus for this year and we want to make sure that it's sort of our whole spectrum engagement is pushing in the right direction and then sort of to bring it back to the TPT framework what's really key is just to set this all out transparently so as I said we publish our consultation responses on our website we try and be clear and transparent about the other working groups and the other areas that we're engaging as well and as we're doing this sort of trade association review and going into more depth than that we hope to be able to set out more information on that as well so it's really fundamental to cover the spectrum of your engagement but then also be really clear and really transparent so that people reading your transition plan can determine whether or not you're covering that spectrum across the board getting that real economy strategic and rounded approach that Matt pointed out earlier Brilliant, thank you both so totally fundamental to a successful transition plan we've spoken quite a bit about climate and I suppose we focus perhaps on net zero as part of that moving a little bit to sort of wider topics the TPT is set up working groups on nature on adaptation and on the just transition when we started the whole TPT process over a year ago they felt a little bit awkward but I think what's true to say is over the past year we've just seen a real push for the inclusion of that and full integration which has come from many stakeholders in quite a significant consultation so it does feel like the agenda is changing a little bit there Skanya you're a member of the CCC's adaptation committee could you tell us a little bit about the relationship between a transition plan and adaptation Yeah, very happy to so the CCC the Committee on Climate Change is a statutory body and basically we have two main jobs is to sort of hold all the country or government accountable in terms of achieving net zero but also adapting to climate change and making sure that we have a well adapted UK and I think for since its inception we've been sort of treating this relatively separate but I think this is starting to change with the simple reason that the climate is already changing and we already experiencing climate impacts and that is having an impact on transition strategies I'll just give you an example so heat waves they are really challenging and difficult for energy systems we've seen this last year we also see this with buildings so there is a huge effort to decarbonise our build environment at the same time our build environment is also exposed to increased flood risk and if your building has been flooded it usually requires more than half a year of sort of dehumidifying and drying out and that is hugely energy intensive and that can easily if you are the business that runs this is affected by this your transition strategy can actually be derailed by climate impacts that's really the reason why we have to look at this both together and the CCC is actually just in March we published a report that looked at the UK's power system power generation capacity and the infrastructure and for the first time we looked at it both on the net zero side and also the climate resilience side and we sort of mapped out what it would take to achieve sort of a low carbon secure energy system that is also resilient that can cope with shocks and that doesn't doesn't come to a halt when there is an extreme event that can cope with heat and I think that's the kind of mindset that is really really important and so I was very pleased when the TPD sort of announced that there would be this adaptation working group and a number of it and it's been an interesting exercise because I think there is obviously the danger that that every transition plan then also has a sort of subset adaptation plan and I don't think that's really the idea the idea is that you demonstrate that you've thought about how resilient your transition is and where the exposures are and how you actually cope if there is an extreme event or if the temperatures are getting up how is your transition plan going to deal with that and similarly on the nature side how is your transition plan incorporating nature so I think this whole mindset of having an integrated view should not really overcomplicate things I think it should make this actually more practical and more real I think that's the ambition I certainly hope that's the outcome doing this work sometimes it feels is actually really complex so I hope we can sort of tone down the complexity and make this workable because ultimately people will have to deliver this small companies, large companies organisations will have to work with this and it shouldn't be too much of a burden but it should really encourage also then their own decision making so yeah it's an important area but we have to keep in mind that it's difficult but doing it while the climate is already changing is even harder very hard Tim can we come a little bit to maybe your perspective on interest in the resilience of plans in that particular point I think that last point is really crucial it's that even if we align to a 1.5 world that doesn't mean that we don't need to adapt to a transition which is green house gas emissions well as we adapt to the world we're going to be in as a regulator we're interested in financial risk and so transition to a 1.5 world or whatever the climate outcome is entails transition risk but we also need to be conscious of the adaptation risk and that's what we're centrally focused on so I think sort of thinking about a firm strategy on the road to transition reflected in their transition planning but also adapting as they need to go and thinking about these interplays is important and we're closely following the work of the TPT on thinking through some of these issues if I maybe could just use that and tie it to the conversation we just had on engagement as well because I do think the engagement pillar of transition planning is crucial particularly in the short term as well in order to mitigate the long run impacts of climate change we need to reduce green house gas emissions reducing green house gas emissions meaning reducing production of those emissions in the real economy financial sector has a role to do that for financial sector that means scope 3 scope 3 emissions is where the majority of financial sector firms are going to be so that means your financial emissions your emissions are going to be coming from who you finance but also your supply chain and your engagement point to understand sort of transition also adaptation needs is really crucial in terms of understanding what that means for a firm's own transition strategy helping a whole economy transition helping to inform adaptation but also we've talked about data and skills as well in the short term well data sets and data frameworks are still being developed and we're trying to unlock that data question that engagement is really crucial to sort of feed that that information early in the process but also really crucial for sort of skills in terms of larger firms supporting and engaging with their supply chain which means in particular for large and small firms working together collaboratively I think is really crucial in sort of helping to sort of both firms collectively to sort of meet their own emissions because I think that's crucial in terms of as we go down but also particularly in the near term so I think it's sort of it tries it needs to knit all together as one we can't we need to think about these separate in order to sort of think about the issues but ultimately they all still need to come together at some point Thanks Tim and really important points down on SMEs too we heard from the minister this morning about the government's own work in supporting data generation in SMEs and that's going to be so crucial we are going to have time for a couple of audience questions and then we will try to get you to break just before we do just a final word Jen on the the nature element and Barclays work so far could you say a couple of points on that and then we'll come to audience for questions Yeah sure and I will caveat everything I'm about to say by the fact that I clearly have climate in my territory not nature but it is definitely increasingly untenable to think about climate without thinking about nature as well I'm seeing that more and more literally every day in my inbox but what is clearly important in the context of climate and the context of climate transition plan is to think about the nature interdependencies that that transition will have and that is both from the risks to nature from the way that the climate transition plan is implemented but also identifying the opportunities for co-benefits because that definitely can be the case and if you take a considered approach then it can be really a win-win situation things like the TNFD are definitely advancing our understanding in this area and providing the frameworks that don't currently exist in order to identify those risks and potential opportunities in particular it's clearly relevant for some sectors rather more than others agriculture is the prime example here you really cannot think about transitioning in the agriculture sector without considering nature and actually the way you go about it can really deliver those co-benefits particularly when you think about its role in carbon sequestration thinking about nature from the beginning of that conversation can allow you to do certain actions in a way that maybe you wouldn't have considered otherwise and for this reason we at Barclays prioritise the food and ag sector when we conducted a TNFD pilot last year looking at the potential risks in that sector and we are developing our nature strategy of the back of that but also integrating those findings within our climate risk assessment as well and I should say the two things are important and separate activities integrating within climate but also taking an independent nature approach as well another sector that is a prime example of needing an additional focus on nature is a round of development of low carbon technology obviously the demand for things like EVs solar panels all of that clean tech is going to ramp up over the coming years and with that will be a ramp up in the demand for critical minerals and key materials that often have to be mined and we are probably all aware of the potential negative consequence on nature and biodiversity from the mining sector if we think about those impacts from the beginning and we integrate it into decision making then the driver to find alternative approaches or at least to take a step to minimise those risks will be a lot more present and I think I read last week that the world's first dedicated solar panel recycling facility is only opening this month which I think really drives home the need to think about these things from the beginning because recycling should be a fundamental part of trying to minimise our demand for those critical materials and therefore minimise the impacts that mining can have and I think that's really clear throughout the TPD's framework in terms of integrating these considerations throughout decision making throughout your engagement, policies, targets governance, everything at every step and that's why we're really happy as well to be representing on the TPD nature working group and so we can sort of share our knowledge in this area as well there's certainly a sort of earlier stage development of frameworks in this area so work coming from the TPD will be really fundamental and I think my sort of key takeaway as I said briefly at the beginning is thinking about nature as its own separate entity and I have colleagues with nature in their title that are doing just that but people like me thinking about nature within the context of climate change and for the transition planning side of things how does your transition plan impact on and depend upon nature is really a crucial part of it Great, thank you, just because nature and just transition and adaptation aren't in your job title doesn't mean it's not integral Right, a couple of questions one down the front here and then one in the middle row Is there a mic or a slot right through there? There is a mic, my clerk so my question to the panel is how familiar are the panel with what's going on in the UK pension sector and to give context to that and lead to rather sharp questions for Tim I'd like to pick up so I'm at a really good echo chamber point at one end of the UK pension sector where a pension fund is publishing what can only be called Nonsons at four degrees the expected return on a pension fund is 70 basis 70 basis points less than it would be at the other end there are leaders who have dismissed C-Best scenarios as not decision useful and pension funds get it this quickly in the bank to insure us and that title is probably quite polite so they have dismissed the official scenarios they are using a different approach and trying to approach the real world I think you nearly said tipping points you didn't say tipping points but we could get a tipping point pretty soon so the question is how familiar are the panel with the UK pension sector progress and when will the bank of England tip and take a leadership position that in fact we need to have more uncertainty more asset prices more volatility in your leadership role thank you Thanks so, would any panelist like to take initial views on pension sector I think one for Tim I think the question came to me is the bank of England not the pension regulator so I'll frame this through the lens of funeral stability as I've already said the key things we're looking at is resilient to the financial system not just from transition to net zero but overall with climate outcome and facilitating the transition to net zero sea bears I'm not going to front run there's a panel on scenario analysis and stress testing which is where do we go next so I'm not going to front run any of that conversation because I think it'll be a really interesting panel there's much more time to get into the details there but I will say on sea bears it was a learning exercise sea bears wasn't designed to stress the financial system it was designed to understand the future the impacts of different potential climate outcomes from a early orderly transition through to a no transition on today's business models and it was about trying to understand and deepen our understanding of how those impacts could play through business models rather than necessarily stressing the system we learnt a lot the capabilities of really driving home I think there are questions about where does this debate evolve from here but I think as a starting point as a learning exercise we did and learnt a lot from just having run that exercise I think that will inform where we go where we go from here but understanding what sea bears were designed to do and what it told us and what it didn't tell us because it wasn't designed to do that I think is also really crucial as we continue to evolve our approach Great, thanks Tim and a good segue to the next section Question in the middle here Hello, this is a question for Jennifer and a side question for Tim So very interesting your description of what Bartheis is doing so you described the client approach that your bucket climbs into five buckets depending on how you think the transition plan is going and then you mentioned something about capital allocation so can you say a little bit more about how these buckets translate into allocation for example are you putting constraints on allocation to buckets or something of the sort I'm curious to know how these transition plans translate into actual actionable parts of the management and a question related to this for Tim is how does the Bank of England as a supervisor hold banks accountable to the transition plans is it at a very consultative stage or are they actually being held accountable in the near future as to what they will actually do during the transition what they declared at the onset Sure, I can kick off on that so as I mentioned last year was the first year that we rolled out this assessment approach and so we, much like with the SeaVers learnt a lot through that year of how the best approach to do this is what the right things to look for how much we can actually get from firms' disclosures we had developed this framework over the year and then we engaged of the Wyman to do some full in-depth review of our assessment framework to see if it was up to scratch we integrated their findings into it and we've updated it sort of a 2.0 version that we're then running again this year so because of that we have not yet taken the steps to integrate into things like capital allocation but we have our sites set on that as we develop this framework and refine it and disclosures get better so our results can get more robust and accurate capital allocation is one of those areas also there's going to be things like how we engage as I said before prioritising where we focus our efforts on climate engagement also things like scenario analysis can we factor these results in where we say if you're a really poorly rated firm in our framework maybe in scenario analysis we take the assumption that you won't transition or different risk indicators in that sense and there are so many use cases for these ratings and that's why we've taken the time to really develop and refine the framework as much as we can before rolling it out in more detail and another thing we really hope to do is use it eventually to demonstrate how we're trying to support real economy decarbonisation in our disclosures if we can show that our clients are improving their scores over time as they develop much more robust approaches to the transition more ambitious targets and more aligned with net zero pathways and scenarios that can hopefully show and demonstrate how we're supporting our clients as they transition rather than just portfolio adjustments and doing paper decarbonisation that's already been referenced and then perhaps very briefly I'll try and answer your question I think it comes back to use cases for transition plans, Jen's talked about financial institutions use case when it comes to a supervisors use case it comes back to this point about understanding a firm strategy and therefore their risk appetite and their risk management framework and the core of our work as a supervisor on climate lies in on supervisory expectations of climate change one of the first core elements of that is around governance and with that it does the board have a strategy around climate change and an understanding of the short, medium and long term consequences of that and inherently that's also at the core of a transition plan it's talking about a firm's strategy of how they are going to approach and manage the transition and to transform their own organisation towards hopefully a 1.5, 1.0 world and then it also speaks to the role that we play as supervisors we're concerned with ensuring resilience to the system ensuring firms are managing financial risks and subjects that is supporting government on transition but it's really for the government through its climate policy through the green finance strategy to drive that transition and then also on firms and the actions of individuals to respond to that as well Brilliant, thank you Tim I think we're going to have to close there just because we're a bit behind on time but please join me in thanking the panellists