 All right, hey folks, it's Rob here. We are back at the Progressive Web Apps Summit. We're hanging out kind of in the speaker green room area where people are swapping in and out in between talks. We're joined right now by Dion Almar. Dion is a engineering director in Chrome Developer Relations. Dion, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. We're here in Amsterdam. We're talking about Progressive Web Apps. One of the things I think maybe a lot of developers think is like, do I really need another buzzword for what I do during my day job? And so I was curious if you've heard that and also, what are your feelings about buzzword fatigue and stuff like that related to this topic? That's a really good question. I think it's natural for engineers and developers to, you know, I understand what the pieces are under the hood. Like, why do you have to come up with this overarching abstract idea? What's interesting, though, is that when you step away from kind of the developer engineering side, like for example, I was talking to a friend who's a developer who came to the event and he was working on a startup. And he hears the Progressive Web App thing and he naturally is just like, really? Do you have to build this? Do you have to say this? Do you have to say it sounds marketing-y? Developers are allergic to that a lot of the time. But what was interesting was his startup got acquired by a really large company. And now he is kind of head of web technology at this company. And he wants to start using all of the technology that we're talking about. And he found it was just a really useful tool for him to sell into the business where he could go in there and just be like, OK, have you seen, have you heard that the Washington Post did this Progressive Web App thing? Yeah, it's awesome. Give me some of that. Give me some of that Progressive Web App. And that gave him a different way to converse with the business side. And so for me, really, it's about those kind of things more than about the particulars. And I think we've seen that time and time again with Ajax and other things. It starts as, oh, it means this, this, and this. And very quickly becomes a more abstract general concept. And then we come up with the next one. And so you mentioned kind of the business angle there. And I'm wondering, let's say I'm a business. Why would I be interested in investing in this particular approach to building applications? Yeah, this has been a really fascinating kind of meeting with different partners that we have, different developers, and talking to the business side. In general, I think a lot of the time we think of kind of the collective thing as progressive web apps is building this ideal experience. But a lot of the times it's kind of working out what the particular pain points in a business. Sometimes it's in a particular vertical. So you're in the e-commerce world. And there are particular pain points that you have. And there are payments API, a credentials API that are coming in huge for you. You can have a massive impact. Push notifications to re-engage customers when they've left things in the cart. These things we see from our partner have a massive impact. And so it's about kind of finding those things and helping to educate these companies. And the case studies that are coming out around this are just really helpful. And I still find that we're very much in the middle of the storm. So we know about all of these things. But you get out a little bit. I was just talking to a company that was saying, you know, we love the web. Our thing kind of is built on. You're in some social area. You click a link and you get into our experience. But we need to build an app now because we need push notifications. They had no idea that you could do push on the web. Another company we're talking to, once they found out the way I could do push notifications to the desktop side, I thought this progressive web app thing was a mobile thing. And it's like, no, it's a web thing. And so a lot of it is just kind of not getting totally wrapped up. And it means implementing every possible API and finding out what makes sense for a particular business. So if I am one of those businesses, I have a team of developers. We want to learn more about these different topics, push notifications as an example. Where would be a good place for me to go to just kind of start to learn those skills? So we just updated developers.google.com at IO to kind of have more content on the progressive web app side, the AMP side, and the like. But also kind of the key underpinning technologies that we think are important, performance security, accessibility, et cetera. That's the place to go. And we've only just started with that rewrite, so to speak. There's a ton of content that we need to get on there. And so I think that'll be a good holding place for people to check out and see what's going on. Right on. OK, so Dion, thank you so much for being with us today. Everything Dion mentioned, developers.google.com slash web, all that great material. We're going to link to it down in the show notes. We've also got links to the progressive web apps playlist so you can see all of the talks live from Amsterdam there. Also, be sure to go check out the Chrome Developers YouTube channel, click that little Subscribe button to get more of this good content as it rolls out. From beautiful sunny Amsterdam, I'm Rob Dodson. Again, Dion, thank you so much for being with us. Sign it off.