 Well, everyone's still making their way in. I don't want to move this stuff around too much, because the teachers will just have to then move it back. But, Kurt, you're in the right place. Yeah. Don't worry so much about it. I think they had it. Come on in. Wait for it. You're in the right place. You're in the right place. Alright, so you have it. A couple things to chat about here. A couple questions that we're supposed to be considering. Yeah, about an half an hour. I'm Alyssa Schering, by the way. They asked me to facilitate this conversation. It's nice to be here with you all. I know many of you, but... Yeah, just to keep... Yeah, just to introduce yourself. Yeah, I'm Kurt. Yeah, do you want to introduce yourself? Yeah, I'm Monica. Come on in. Come on in. Where's this wastewater? Grab some chairs. You're only right that that's where we should be. Nice. It's a long group, so we were just circling up here. So, just to smash in. I dropped the door. It's hot. It's hot outside, but not as hot as right here. Do you want to sign another team below or something? It's totally up to you. No, you could not go away. Whatever. All day. If we were going to have it... Sure. One thing we do want to do is try to remember where they are so we... Yes, we have an island there. That's great. Okay, so while we're organizing the room, I'm just going to help get us started here. We have a couple of questions that we're supposed to be taking notes on and report back on. The first is just what steps should be taken by the committee in advancing action related to the wastewater treatment facility. So what advice does this group want to give to the commission saying these are the things we need to be looking into for wastewater? Can you clarify when you say the commission for the committee, what is this body? Yeah, all I know is what this says here. That is that there's going to be a Montpelier Commission for Recovery and Resilience, where they're going to take... that you can apply to be on by September 14th, and there's going to be some initial committee members. If everyone doesn't have this, it looks like there's going to be a group of three to five to start. So a representative of Montpelier Live, the Montpelier Foundation, and the City of Montpelier, and that this group will start to build out a commission looking at these top five things that we just prioritized and then bringing in other topics. So if we're thinking about advising this body, what questions do we have for them, or what advice do we have for them as a forum? And if you could please state your name before... And we're taking some notes over here. Sure. I'm Elvira, the LBFA, and I based on some of the previous forum conversations, the advice I would have is to provide information in layman's terms to the public about steps that have been taken... about the condition of the wastewater treatment facility, where people feel that certain actions have not been taken, whereas in fact they may need a process, a status report, the current situation, but also highlighting efforts that are currently underway or projected into the future, and that may be on the horizon next year, two years from now, five years from now, would be very helpful. That's not more for the commission, but I think it's very important for public understanding of this key priority. So what's the state of the state as it pertains to the status of the wastewater treatment facility and the flooding and resilience rate? That will help set the baseline. What else? Chris here from the city and he can help absorb this information as well as these notes. I just have a basic question. My understanding from talking to one of the wastewater technicians was that the plant didn't flood and operated as intended. I mean, they still were releasing untreated water, I mean, untreated sewage into the river because they didn't have the capacity to treat it. So, you know, I just have a basic question. Is it, like, what's the problem we're trying to solve and what are we doing with education about how it works and conditions it? I mean, as taxpayers we're just spending a ton of money to upgrade. Yeah, yeah. And you can certainly speak to this with the way I think about the problem as defined by the conversation and previous ones, it's that we want to protect the wastewater treatment facility from being inundated with water to the point that it can no longer function for our city during flooding. Would you say that that is... Yeah, so we didn't flood, but it was really close. Really close. So we had a bigger event. So is it just volume of water or is it the threat of all that silk and everything else coming in to get a serious flood? Yeah, so we did have a lot of impacts from silk. So we went through the collection system and basically cleaned up all the pipes and then ended up at the plant. So all the tanks filled with silk, all the pumps were seizing up because they didn't pump because there's so much silk at the plant. So that... How long did it take you to clean all that stuff? We're still working on it. So we're doing one tank at a time. So you really didn't escape? Well, there wasn't catastrophic damage, right? So none of the major... So what would be catastrophic? So in a previous flood, the water actually... I think it was Irene or the one before that in that same year, water came out through the pipe from the river and there was a mantle cover that wasn't secured and the whole plant flooded and electrical and all the equipment was damaged and the point was down for a little time. So to clarify, you were talking about the effect of the additional water flowing through the treatment system. Right. But the catastrophic event of the water that's not been processed through the system but it's like reaching the spring. And so I think there was discussion about raising the perimeter or some other methods to prevent that. So you mean putting, like, dikes around the... Well, that's what we're talking about. I mean, that's what we're talking about. That's one idea. Other ideas that I've heard have been to turn to dog river fields there and forest that area and create, you know, or create, like, flood plain. Just not use it, not mow it and just let it, you know, grow up so it can absorb more water perhaps bring some trees there. You know, what are other ideas, though? I mean, you either have to do a natural or an engineering solution, but we got to get the water away or maybe we do upstream solutions around the dog river to allow upstream some more biodes or things for the water to be absorbed. Just one more clarifying thing. So during the heavy rainfall the problems you were having was literally from the rain itself being so much that you had more water than you could deal with. So the plan is designed for, like, four million gallons a day and we were having about 10 million gallons a day through the facility because, yeah, rain was getting in the manholes because their streets were underwater so there was massive amount of flow coming through the pipes to the funnel. So what we did, we were partially treated but we had to pull, like, the disinfection system out of the channels so they didn't get damaged during the flow. So there's these light UV disinfection that we pulled because they're going to get washed away as there's so much velocity running through the plan. The speed of the water is just to the point where it's going to be average equipment. So that's why we had a boil on those? So that's the water, potable water system, the drinking water system. This is separate from waste water. So in this case, waste water is being discharged into the river? Right, this is discharged into the Muski River as opposed to the water system starts up in Berlin through a different set of pipes. So we had to go to a boil situation because Berlin is a problem. There wasn't actually any known issue with the water system. The state recommended that we issue a precautionary boil water just in case there was contamination we didn't know about. Like seeping into the pipes? That would be possible if there had been a break in the pipe. What other thoughts or questions or areas do you think that this commission should be looking into as pertains to waste water? I'm Meredith. A number of years ago I went on a tour of the wastewater treatment plant that was extremely educational and I would suggest that that be promoted as just an educational and awareness to our tax payers because that really helped me realize what was going into the system and one thing that was stressed during that tour was these disposable disposable wipes that were clogging up our pipes and our equipment and that if they just stopped using that that would actually save taxpayer money and I thought that was something that everybody should know about so what you were saying about just education, just letting us know what the status is is so important especially as a taxpayer and I voted for the upgrades because I could see that it was really necessary apparently there's more upgrades that are needed I don't know if we have money for it yet but it got so important to protect that infrastructure I don't know all the ins and outs but I don't know what's important to protect it and I think the dog river idea of having a settling area a floodplain area it makes total sense if you just look down from the highway out of the plant and you see this field that's being used as grass and dog poop and a lot of dog poop out there it's really important to have that grown up and lots of plants lots of trees willows, whatever that could really help and the tree board would help in planting those trees that's great one other idea could also be to look at I'm sure we're not the first community that's had to deal with this so to look at other ways wastewater facilities have been protected in other parts of the state or in other states I don't know if they have a flood date that they put down in front of certain areas are there like what's the storm water look like in the area I just would look at other models that have come up I think you wanted to say something too it's just a continuation I think we were asked to suggest what the commission should do but I think that part of that is promoting the engagement of the community in the system the engagement and understanding education because for example the separation of storm water I understand that's in process it's a very slow process of separating the storm and sewer water it's underway, it's planned, it's going but it can't all be accomplished but it has a very significant correlation to the flow of water and other tools that can be used in an emergency situation so I think tours of elementary school education buy into these infrastructures so people understand what it is when we're talking about it and that there would be community support around the decision making process to protect the systems in general so that's not really bringing the public into the process which is challenging when the city already provides extensive notes, notifications there are websites there are updates there's tons of information there but enticing people to use it it's not a really hot topic in and of itself this is probably the hottest it's ever been in this very moment but it's really important if it hadn't been inundated with water it would have been terrible even it's such a big problem how close are we to separating the two systems it's like 20 years or something it seems like it's been half an event working on for the last 30 years we're doing like one pipe at a time right, there are two major while we're doing State Street right now it's a separation project and East State Street is in design those are the kind of the last two big ones other than Cliff Street which is really difficult because of all the layers that'll make a real big difference to our country yeah, that's a massive amount of water it's going into the plant right now so will that water go into the Manuski Directly then yeah, so there is pre-treatment requirements now in storm water so at least some level of treatment like vortex separators, it's like a silk separator to take out some of the solids before it goes through but it won't be treated to the level that it is at the plant that's for sure we'll get the gasoline and all the toxins that are on the roads that's right, that's much less much less, that's sad so one other thing we're supposed to be looking at we're supposed to be considering in this conversation are just what resources do we think will be needed as the commission considers these issues maybe this is an answer to that but I think somewhere in this paragraph that talks about the risk assessment and I would think that would be a good place to start the state of the state and the risk assessment that would be great do we have a risk assessment around flooding in the wastewater plant already? yeah, so when we did the last upgrade we had to administer the plain permitting process and basically all the equipment that was replaced was evaluated for being able to elevate it or flood proof it, there is a flood like a sub-rain door on one of the access to the lower access doors so I don't know that a formal flood risk assessment has been done but the project included a lot of flood performance so one thing would be to look at that as a resource in doing any type of risk assessment yes so we're not redoing any of the work what about like that settling pond that's out in the parking lot by the insurance company there's like these ponds they're not ponds, they're just areas low areas where the water goes into and then it gets absorbed slowly we're not looking at that that kind of thing all over the city trying to build more of those things for the storm water runoff settling ponds or storm water runoff they're like little gardens wet gardens like one by BSECU there's a really nice one right there probably building more of those around the city I think that's a question of can we remove some of the concrete which is really the worst and replace it with more green spaces or green pavement that holds it and sort of goes down into the soil just allowing more of the water to get into the ground and not just run all over the place yeah there's a good point yeah there's also hazard mitigation grant programs the city is kind of doing a scoping study right now to elevate the river road through HMGP to see if that's an eligible project so that has basically access to levee right now it's a wall that protects the plant and it was one of the big floods so one of the things the city is looking at already is just is there a way to elevate that and how does that impact the floodway yeah expand or elevate yeah really raising the elevation because it does create a full dam if you're looking down on the highway at that point yeah so that's one thing that's already in the works yeah and that's resources that grant program just and I guess my question I just have there is if we are raising up the road and having that wall act as levee does it then cause worse flooding for downtown or just somewhere else downstream I guess that would be the question because the dog river flows not river flows the other direction no they come together just upstream yeah they come right there yeah right there I'd say with kind of the lay of the land there and where the ledge starts and stops if the road act is a levee to protect it would protect also our public works facility where all our trucks and vehicles are part which are also critical assets but it's really a fairly small piece of kind of a horseshoe shaped piece of real estate so we wouldn't be taking away that much floodplain by creating that levee I for one really and my name is Chris I work in the city in different capacity sustainability and facilities coordinator but I'm in support of in addition to allowing the floodplain to do its job also having an engineering solution that and an engineering solution to me provides the benefit of being built to a fixed elevation where both of these two events that almost overtop and then gave the plan where my understanding is almost exactly the elevation of a hundred years left right now so we know the elevation that we're at right now and the plan ahead if we go a couple feet higher or whatever we've got a fixed elevation expanding the floodplain it's hard to quantify what effect that's going to have on how the flood waters interact with the treatment plan well someone can do it and that would be a question for a river engineer or a wetlands person also mitigate downstream impacts by removing the volume of soil that's outside that's blocked right create the same volume that you're displacing from raising the river uh huh yeah so what are the tradeoffs there to get the water and somewhere else if not that spot but I think one thing we have money as a state and the feds for buyouts too so are there also properties that were flooded that we should be buying out upstream to mitigate the impacts downstream from the dock river? I would say the same thing is true for any of the rivers honestly because all three are challenges for us but I've just specifically talked about the dock has already been taken or is in process nearly every point the city should act out to improve defenses they're evaluating the possibility to raise the road which is on funding agencies right accessing funds that could potentially support that activity risk assessment mentioned in the last round of upgrades there was an aspect of risk assessment facility itself seems not to be lacking in its capacity I mean this is about protecting its ability to operate but it's operating contingency plan should the facility fail very good and it sounds like you've talked about you've enacted some of these plans already removing some of the treatment apparatus to prevent loss shifting flow of water releasing some untreated water to the facility but also you know you've got to stop moving so that's part of it so in a way I almost wonder like how can we be helpful thanks so much is underway is there anything we're forgetting well and I should pass this around because this is a if you want to continue this conversation as the commission is pulled together if you would like to either be notified or pulled in to the conversation you should sign up here just on wastewater there'll be other opportunities to but this sign up she would be given to the commission so feel free to pass it around or sign up if you want to continue to engage I think we should be noted that the plan provides a regional resource so I think it's about a third of every septic system in the state and as well as some of the Hampshire and other states all go up with people that are not on a municipal system they come for tank up all such were not so if the plan it is an income stream but it's also regional service there's not a lot of plans that are set up Wind River is one of the contractors that does the work so they bring waste to us so if the plan went down there would be an impact not just on the bill but from on the whole so maybe the only thing that's really actionable is that public engagement and education well and strategies around protecting it from the water getting to it which I think we have a bunch that we've listed like levees additional green spaces buyouts flood doors or gates but if you have a dike the road dike you can go around there the only place that your water is going to come from is just to rain directly on it or some of those storm storm water systems that haven't been disconnected yet we did have water into the facility from a street drainage that plugs a backup it couldn't get to the river so it started running into the plan well that's something to add to the list then look at that drainage system and make sure there's like an alternate route or like there's some where else if that happens that it's not coming right like is there a detour for it somewhere probably hard to quantify but also building floor grains after the water level rises above those floor grains that may or may not be connected to say that they're going to storm water into them we've done roof drains there's the collection system is made out of clay pipes primarily and there's no gaskets so anytime the groundwater comes up it gets into the sewer system those are big infrastructure issues that we're dealing with but it just takes a long time for a lot of money what about onsite storm so if you have the levee and you deal with this like backup issue that we were just talking about you know we mean that it's this horseshoe shaped property that's just there to have I guess onsite storm water for anything that's just coming straight down onto it to be managed like we get nine inches in eight hours of rain or something do you need onsite storm water that you don't have currently so all the storm system within the plant facility runs through the plant in case there's something that's required okay because how's the wastewater treatment plant contacted other communities like I don't know what Waterbury did during their big hurricanes and they were out for a long time in the past I mean there must be other solutions and other communities in Vermont that have been successful that they looked into any of these other communities and how they dealt with this it can't be the only one that's happening I have not reached out to other communities for building a lot of things but yeah that's a good idea so going on sort of what Alyssa said if you had a whole bunch of rain the nine inches in eight hours if you had a a sort of big storm water drain right somewhere in the low part of the place to go to the river couldn't you get rid of some of such excess water that's theoretically not bad except it flows over a little bit of ground there it goes out of the plan yeah potentially I mean we would have to have it like some sort of valve where you flipped it from going through the plant because that's a regulatory requirement to have any spills contained so you'd have to during a flood event change the valve or to divert the water as much as possible in terms of size and scale again on the top of your head what other communities have a similar scope and scale and berry cities the closest in our field St. John'sbury I think did get impacted by the flood one of the first water burials I'm not sure the water buries worked for 10 years since I read to do something with culverts at some point I read in the paper that it had some impact this past but not like Irene they did stop for 10 years it took them 10 years to get things that are a little bit better for them I think I've been to Waterbury recently and it looks so much better than not Peter and remember Irene was really bad in the water beater it was terrible well thank you for taking the time to have this conversation we're going back to the big group but before we head out can we put the tables back where they were just for this teacher who comes in in the morning and then we might actually have lost one of our chairs that might have gone into a different room I'm hoping that's not true but let's just do a chair count thank you so much I'll hand this wastewater sign-up sheet to Paul and then we'll get the notes in and those notes will go to the committee or commission whatever we're supposed to be calling them and is this on its pen? Radisson? well it's the Radisson it was modeled off of I think there were two chairs on each side I think that was that big side yeah I think so these just like this on these sides? yeah I think so so there must be one here and one here and there's one in the door so we could grab one yeah I think we're missing a chair yeah I think we're missing a chair good how are you? just filming for fun that's cool that's cool alright how are you doing? alright we're good yeah let's go back right now as much as we can go no for so recently