 Ym mwy fwy o'r adrwm y chymde o'r ddweithio sy'n cymryd yn cymryd mwy o'r adrwm yn cydwyng angen mae'r adrwm eich gweithio'n cydwyr i'w ddweithio'n cydwyr ddweithio'n cydwyr ar M2995 i'r amser Alex Cole, ar gyfer y BBC y dyfodol, mae'n amser yn cymryd gyda'r adrwm i ei gweithio'n cydwyr, ddweud i ddweud i gweithio i gweithio i gaeloedd yn ei gweithio i gaeloedd y gallu cyflugion ar hyn. Mae Cymru yn bwysig, wrth gwrs, yn 1922, oedd ysgoloddau'n gweithio a gwybod, yw eu cyfle o'r mod i gyflwyno'n gweithio, o gyflwyno'n gweithio i gaeloedd ac yn ymgyrch, i gaeloedd yn ei gaeloedd, i gaeloedd, i edrych, ac i gaeloedd. Rwy'n wedi gweld eu gweithio i gaeloedd i gaeloedd y cwntent ac i'r probiti, yn fwy gormfaint gweithio gwaith na dim, oedd oedden nhw'n cyflwycofiddiaethau a'r fforddol a'r fan oedaf yw rywunion sydd gennym ni'n tyst i fyyd i zeidiaeth o grannu rai cyfleoedd y Llywodraeth, a gweithio gyrsgu hwn yn cael gweithio drewl i'r gweithio. Yn 1980-lu, gennym ni'n tirio'r fan yn Ethiopia, ac yn cael ei byd rywunion ar gyfer 69-lu rhywbeth, cymaint o sylwio indicatorau dangos y sandwch cymrydol. It is important to acknowledge what has prompted this debate today. The BBC has long been in the crosshairs of those on both ends of the political spectrum. The attacks on its independence and its impartiality are commonplace, largely from people who just don't like or would rather mask the truth as they find it. There is usually a rhythm to these attacks. However, last month, while Westminster boiled with scandal and intrigue, seemingly out of the blue, UK culture secretary Nadine Dorris announced that the BBC funding would be frozen for two years, while the Government undertook a review into its funding structure. She included a suggestion that the licence fee itself would be scrapped by 2027. Presiding Officer, it is abundantly clear that Boris Johnson's latest assault on the BBC is clearly the action of a Government in disarray, trying to distract and to dissemble attention away from its own transgressions, its incompetence and its disunity. It is a wholly cynical gambit and it will be remembered for what it is. Can I take a moment to put on record my respect and gratitude to those Conservative Members of this Parliament who have already and will tonight distance themselves both from the Prime Minister and his culture secretary? It is no wonder that Boris Johnson was rid of the BBC. Of course he does. It represents exactly the type of entitled politician who feels affronted whenever anyone dares to hold him to account or to challenge his version of the truth. His administration's attempt to undermine the broadcaster serves to precisely demonstrate the purpose it serves and why we need to protect it. Nadine Dorris has claimed that freezing the licence fee would help with the soaring cost of living, but freezing the fee would just save families a little over £6 a year. Contrast that with the Prime Minister's increase to national insurance, which will cost the average worker an extra £225 per year. Presiding officer, they must think that we button up the back. Let's be clear, without the licence fee, the BBC would be hobbled in its ability to produce fair, unbiased and challenging content free from the interference of advertisers, shareholders and political interests. Removing public funds would begin the slow and steady march towards the privatisation of our national broadcaster. Presiding officer, nearly 90% of all UK adults will tune in to some of the BBC services at least once a week, and it's not hard to see why. That's because it caters to all tastes, all viewpoints and demographics. It more than earns its fee. Let's not forget that it is also an employer. In Scotland alone, it employs more than 1,250 employees, some of whom work in this very building. They are our colleagues and they are our friends. We may not always like its reporting. We may cringe at softball questions or the way different presenters frame particular events, but in the main and across the board, the depth and scrutiny it provides in its reporting is world-class and it is second to none. Indeed, the controversies it has been associated with in the past stem from its fearless desire to get to the truth and to hold power to account. Those 4,000 people who marched on the BBC headquarters in 2014 to demand Nick Robinson's dismissal did so because he dared to challenge Alex Salmond on the facts during the independence referendum. That antipathy from nationalist quarters continues and indeed it was only last year that a number of SNP MPs threatened to boycott the licence fee after making a list of demands which included scrapping the fee itself in Scotland. You can tell a measure of an organisation by the enemies it keeps. That's why I would also I was just about to congratulate some of the SNP members in the audience here and if they give me the time to do so I will do so. I want to recognise that there is cross-party support and I am grateful to SNP members like Ruth Maguire and Bill Kidd for backing this motion today. Presiding Officer, we must also remember that the scope of the BBC extends far beyond politics and indeed beyond these islands. It plays an important role as an educator and never has that been more important than it was in those months of lockdown. It produces enlightening and challenging drama and provides countless radio stations up and down the country, giving light to local issue in a way that would not happen otherwise. There is room for improvement and reform in the BBC. Of course there is but show me an institution where that is not the case but we must acknowledge and remember that the BBC has a unique role which only it can fulfil in shining a light on what unites us and what we hold in common. It provides the glue that binds so many of us together, people up and down the country, providing content that resonates widely regardless of one's background or geographical location. It informs us, it makes us laugh, it entertains us and sometimes it brings us together in times of national mourning. Who would forget the countless national moments it has covered, like the poignant marking of the 75th anniversary of VE Day during the first lockdown when the BBC's programming managed to provide a sense of togetherness amidst unprecedented isolation. It is during those times of important reflections, celebration or sadness, the times when we need to come together to commemorate more and or just enjoy ourselves that we turn to and turn on the BBC. It is a national beacon of togetherness that has stood the test of time. The question is, do we truly understand the importance of the service it provides to us and do we value it enough to preserve it? Presiding Officer, in a world where fact-based reporting and the very notion of truth itself is under threat, we diminish the BBC and the principle of public service broadcasting at our peril. Lose it now and we will regret that forever. I now call on Jenny Minto to be followed by Donald Cameron for around four minutes. As a former employee of BBC Scotland, I welcome this motion and congratulate Alex Cole-Hamilton on achieving this debate. The proposal to freeze the licence fee for the next two years followed by inflationary rises until 2027 and then possibly abolition has been described as cultural vandalism by some commentators. I grew up watching Swat Shop in Grange Hill, listening to Radio 1 and Sports Sound. Then, in the early 1990s, joined BBC Scotland. My role was very much behind the camera or mic. I worked with talented programme makers across the television and radio spectrum and across every programme genre. Output that fell very much under the public sector remit, Gaelic Broadcasting, Radio Scotland, Education and the Orchestra. I support the principle of public service broadcasting. It should be defended, but that does not mean that it should not be improved. Within its charter, the BBC has a public purpose to invest in the creative economies of the UK's nations and regions. However, there is no requirement that the BBC invests to the same extent in each of the UK nations or regions. Analysis of the last five years of the BBC's annual report until I was an accountant, show how much of the licence fee is that is raised and then spent in each of the four nations of the United Kingdom. In Wales, it is between 90% and over 100%. In Northern Ireland, it is between 84% and 97%. In Scotland, the figure is 67% to 75%. Scotland is consistently being shortchanged. That is important because an independent report from KPMG calculated that for every £1 spent by the BBC, it generates £2.63 in the wider creative economy. In 2020-21, £101 million of the licence fee raised in Scotland was spent by the BBC elsewhere in the UK. That is therefore a £265 million loss to Scotland's creative economy. Imagine all the stories that could have been told from the Scottish perspective. Think about all the young people of Scotland that could have been on traineeships to work in the industry. Picture how the lives and talents of those of us living here could have been better reflected on screen and on the airwaves. Thinking of my own constituency are Gail and Bute. BBC Scotland News has just one journalist based in the area covering 22 inhabited islands, miles and miles of coastline and five county towns in both English and in Gapyg. Value for money? Yes, but are Gail and Bute with so much renewable energy, fantastic food and drink and amazing communities has so many stories it could tell. I want to see and hear Scotland better represented on television and radio at both local and network level, but we face a danger of things getting worse. Tory attacks on the BBC are nothing new. Before Nadine Dorris's announcement, the previous three culture secretaries had raised whether public sector broadcasting and the licence fee were fit for purpose. The Tories have formed in opposing the BBC and the very spirit of public service broadcasting. Scottish ministers are supposed to have a role in any review of the BBC's charter. UK culture secretary Nadine Dorris's provocative statements on the future of the BBC had no input from devolved nations. That demonstrates a complete lack of interest in devolved views on public service broadcasting. Although the debate is about the BBC, I say to keep your hands off channel 4, too. To finish, there is a solution to any Westminster attempt to diminish public service broadcasting for Scotland. Let's cherish the ethos of it and enshrine it in an independent Scottish broadcasting service for an independent Scotland. I know called Donald Cameron to be followed by Sarah Boyack for range 4. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. As advised with your permission, I may have to leave the debate early depending on the length of it. I am very grateful to Alec Cole-Hamilton for bringing forward this debate. There are some constitutional issues that I hope to skirt around, because I think that it is important that we have a sensible and level-headed debate about how we fund the BBC and ensure that it can continue to produce high-quality output that meets the values of its consumers. Can I, at the outset, record the Scottish Conservatives' support for the BBC as an institution, as an employer and, of course, as a creator and broadcaster of news, entertainment, drama and sports to mention but a few items? I have a personal experience, too. I worked for the BBC Bureau in Washington DC after I left university in a very lowly role, but I saw at first hand the professionalism of its journalists. We want to see the BBC thrive for another 100 years, as it has done in the preceding 100 years. It delivers exceptional content to UK audiences, but its global presence is significant, too, particularly through the world service. Similarly, BBC-led initiatives such as BBC Music Introducing has launched the careers of many young and undiscovered musicians. Here in Scotland, BBC Radio Scotland's young traditional musician of the year 2022 shines the light on all the talent that exists across Scotland beyond the mainstream music sector. In the Highlands and Islands, I have spoken on numerous occasions about the important work of BBC Alipa and BBC Radio and Angale in promoting the Gaelic language and culture to audiences in and beyond the Gaeltoch, especially given the support that governments of a Conservative stripe played in developing Gaelic language media in the 1980s and 1990s. I am very grateful to Donald Cameron for taking the intervention. Does he also recognise that in our region, the Highlands and Islands, the particular role that the BBC plays in supporting local radio, like BBC Radio, Orkney and Radio Shetland, and the role those stations play in supporting the communities, providing local news, but also promoting local groups? Glad that you took that intervention, Mr Cameron. Thank you. Deputy Presiding Officer, he has very fond memories of being interviewed in the BBC Orkney Studios when I was once a candidate there, and of course, Jamie Halcro Johnston is right to acknowledge that. But with all that, we do have to recognise, I think, that the way in which people consume media and news has changed radically since 1922, particularly in the last decade, where the rise of on-demand and streaming services has grown exponentially, and that is the thousands of media and news websites that people access anytime online. That is why it is right, I think, to consider the model by which we fund the BBC and also the costs to the consumer that we attach to that model. I note and understand the decision to freeze the licence free for two years until the 1st of April 2024 and rise in inflation thereafter, because we need to have a serious debate about the model that supports and funds the BBC in the future. Nothing is set in Aspect. People are required to pay for a TV licence, even if they do not consume BBC content. So the person who watches only live football on Sky Sports, for example, not only has to pay for their Sky subscription but also for a TV licence, which funds are broadcast that they may never watch. That was a model that was created for an era when the BBC was the only channel and radio broadcast in town, and there are thousands of options for people now to choose from. We need to acknowledge that there are different funding options on the table. They include a subscription service. They include funding the BBC directly from government. They include allowing the BBC to carry advertising to reduce its dependency on the licence fee. They include the status quo. I have not personally reached a concluded view as to which of these new options or the existing model provides the best value for money, but given that we are discussing taxpayers' funds, these options should be debated properly rather than completely dismissed. So, Deputy Presiding Officer in Closing, I want the BBC to have another 100 years and more of delivering high-quality content, media and news, but let's have a proper debate about how the BBC can meet those needs in a radically altered landscape compared to when it was founded. Thank you, Mr Cameron. Before calling Sarah Boyack, can I advise the chamber that the speaker after Ms Boyack will be Alice Rallan, who not only is joining us remotely but will be delivering his speech in Gaelic. You should find headphones on your desks. I will advise you on how to use them and accessing the English translation. For now, I call Sarah Boyack for around four minutes. I also want to thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for securing this debate. It is timely. The BBC ensures that we all have access to high-quality broadcasting, whether through our TVs, on our radios or increasingly on our phones or online. To Donald Cameron, the world is changing, but it makes the BBC more important than ever. It ensures that we have fantastic opportunities to access top-quality programming, diversity of TV, film, news and web content, and it represents the best of what we in this country can create. It also provides a world service that is not just the international soft power of the BBC, with a reputation for reliability and impartiality. It is about what we can all access across the globe. It is important to each and every part of the UK, particularly for us at BBC Scotland, Radio Scotland, Radio Nangel and BBC Alpa, but it goes further into our communities, with regional news and programming, with local radio stations for Orkney and Shetland and opt-out local news bulletins for the north-east, the islands, the borders and Dumfries and Galloway. There is also, across the UK, a tardicad programming wherever you live on TV and radio in Welsh and Gaelic and through the BBC Asian Network, which gives people access and accessibility that they did not previously have, as well as the innovation with podcasts, sports and weather coverage and even free recipes written by experts. That is all available out of fingertips for 44p a day. I want to reiterate the points made by Alex Cole-Hamilton. We have around 1,300 specialist jobs in media and production, developing Scottish talent with comedies like Scott Squad, Soaps at River City, dramas like Shetland, most recently Vigil and a fantastic range of documentaries. I hope that colleagues will agree that we need to do everything that we can to support the current model of the BBC. I am not saying that it is perfect—no organisation it is—but let us not put at risk the quality and range of productions and programmes to score cheap points in tabloid papers. That is not acceptable. Access to public broadcasting is who we are. It is a critical part of our democracy, knowing that we can rely on the news for accuracy and fairness and whoever is in Government will have moments of unhappiness. That is the nature of the work of a public broadcaster, rightly asking difficult questions of ministers and Governments. However, the Tory proposals are not about the public interest. They are about pandering to right-wing Tory MPs who regard the BBC as too liberal. The points that Donald Cameron makes are not where Nadine Doris is coming from. A real terms cut of £3.2 billion to the BBC under the suggestion that the universal licence fee could be abolished by 2027, with no clarity on what it would be replaced by. Who would pay for the world service, for example? A critical part of us. I hope that we can work across the chamber. I know that SNP colleagues have got critiques of the SNP. As I said, the BBC is not perfect, but let us keep the BBC and think about how it can be improved, how it can be better. Labour supports impartial public broadcasting, even when it is critical of us, because we live in a democracy and politicians and political parties should not be above criticism. Not just here but in countries across the world who rely on the BBC for impartial journalism. That is why the world service is so important. I want to reiterate that we are not again to change our innovation. We have a system of accountability in the UK. Let us look at how we improve it, but let us get rid of it at our peril. The proposed privatisation of channel 4 also undermines broadcasting. The cultural vandalism that Jenny Mintle referred to in her speech, I agree with. Let us look at this. The BBC's incredible value for money. £159 for a licence fee that lasts a year. Let us look at the different subscriptions that we have to pay to get what we currently get from the BBC. It would cost a lot more, but we would lose. Invesent in our music, our creative sectors, we would lose out in jobs and innovation, and just this year the award-winning BBC Three is back, something that young people want. Let us not put all of that at risk. The BBC needs universal funding. Ms Boyag, I now call Alasdair Allan. Thank you to Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing this desperate debate to the Parliament today. The BBC is a hugely valuable service, and it's an important part of life, so there are many people in this country. With fake news and clickbait far too common these days and online, it's immensely important that there are still companies who try to be fair, trustworthy and informative in the way that they broadcast the news. Without profit at the heart, there is often more freedom for creativity and to focus on quality in programmes by the BBC. The BBC however is not without its faults. My opinion polls say, for example, that the BBC lost much of the trust of the public in Scotland before the 2014 referendum. This was due to their view that the BBC's coverage of the topic was not completely impartial. Questions have also risen in recent years about the BBC's move towards short-term contracts, the high salaries of some of its presenters, and the way in which the elderly lost their free television licences. But to put that all to one side, I'd like to discuss Gaelic media in particular and how important a public service site the BBC is to minority languages such as Gaelic and Welsh. There's a wealth of academic evidence which shows how important the media are for maintaining and developing minoritised languages. The media can give or restore respect to the language and demonstrate the relevancy of the language to the modern world. It represents economic opportunities too with the media creating minority language of workplaces such as for those working in Gaelic. The media can also have a beneficial effect on language learning by developing resources such as the Speak Gaelic project launched last year. But if it were up to commercial companies unknown, there's a good chance we won't have a Gaelic channel on radio station at all with a number of Gaelic speakers was just now after centuries of suppression. It gives opportunities to learn more about the language and culture of the Gaeles. I doubt that the same number of people will be able to access Gaelic in the same way for up to volunteers to create media content. In addition to the BBC, there are many in my own constituency between companies and self-employed individuals who make programmes for the BBC adding to the skill base in rural areas. Presiding Officer, the stories of the Gaeles are just as important as those of every other population in Scotland. But in a world without a public service broadcaster where profit is the most important thing, there won't be the same opportunity to share those voices across the country. Presiding Officer, I believe that, in contrast to Boris Johnson, I believe that the BBC are one day the SBC should be protected for the future. Of the BBC, we all care deeply about what it represents and I think, as Jenny Minto said, we need to do everything that we can to protect the cultural vandalism that will occur if we continue to see drive towards privatisation and drive towards the cuts of funding of the BBC. Nadine Dorris clearly wants to grab the headlines after announcing on Twitter the licence fee will first be frozen and then scrapped in 2027. Of course, Rishi Sunak then later forced her to retract that statement about scrapping the fee. But I really think it doesn't matter for this government because this Westminster government is all about building a populist distraction and diversion at the moment from the chaos that we see at number 10. Now that the two-year freeze on the licence fee is one of the worst settlements for the BBC in decades and does constitute a real terms cut, Richard Sharp, the BBC chair, described the deals disappointing for licence fee payers and also for the cultural industry in the UK and he noticed that the BBC's income for UK services is already 30% lower in real terms than it was 10 years ago and that the settlement would necessitate tougher choices and it's not yet clear what those choices will be. Will it mean that value channels such as BBC Forrest Scrat, will it lead to significant staff cuts or a treat from certain types of programming? We've yet to find out and it has been estimated that a decision will create a shortfall of £871 million by 2027 adding to the pressure of the two licence fee settlements that we've already seen since 2010 and an increase in the licence fee in line with inflation would have only added roughly £10 per household per year. You can trust that with the average energy cost which will increase by nearly £700 in April this year. So let's not pretend for one minute that this is a serious attempt by the Westminster government to control the cost of living for hard pressed households because it is instead an ideological attack on a trusted institution. But it's perhaps when the BBC's most valued output is that it's most threatened that we finally stopped taking it for granted. When six music was threatened with the acts in 2010 it led to a huge campaign from ordinary listeners to stars like David Bowie who valued what the station was doing to provide a wide platform to nurture new musical talent directly building on John Peele's inspiring legacy at the BBC. And it's important that the BBC builds on its respected Scottish output as well. We've already heard the impact of its Gallup broadcasting, the local services that are needed by communities that Jenny Minto and Dr Allan others have already mentioned. The memorandum of understanding between Screen Scotland and the BBC should continue to strengthen studio-based production and develop our homegrown output. But set against the declining licence fee we have to ensure that staffing production and commissioning is retained in Scotland rather than leaking down to London. Of course we've heard in the SEAC committee already concerns that this is already starting to happen, we're already starting to see that drain down to London. Other members have spoken about the corporation's news output as being a critical public service and the UK Government itself has held the BBC as being the most trusted broadcaster worldwide and according to the BBC's latest annual report eight out of ten British adults continue to use at least one of the BBC's new services every single week and it's rated as trustworthy by the majority of the population and presiding officer in a populist world where trust is in short supply, where fake news grows exponentially across social media, where propaganda machines such as Russia Today stalk the airwaves. A reputable public sector broadcaster is needed more than ever and as Brexit Britain looks inward on itself it's more important than ever that the BBC reaches out to the world and that means protecting the BBC's funding and building rather than dismantling its legacy. Thank you very much Mr Ruskell and now Colin Christine Graham to be followed by Stephen Care. Thank you very much Presiding Officer. I congratulate the member on securing this debate particularly this, the centenary year of the BBC first broadcasting 14 November 1922 before my time. I of course predate however television and my early childhood involved gathering around the family wireless, the radio to you, listening to Dan Dare, Like With the Lions and two way family favourite, somewhere out there somebody remembers these. My mother would recount how she listened to Winston Churchill's broadcast. We shall fight them on the beaches resonating through family homes throughout the country. It was the communicator by your fire, the entertainer, the educator and it still is. TV came into our home in 1952, a screen no bigger than that of my surface here, encased in a clumsy large wooden structure. Black and white TV received Queen's English, newsreaders in evening dress broadcasting a few hours a day. We invited neighbours in to watch accompanied by shippum space sandwiches and the luxury of a glass of lemonade. In later years the BBC pioneered play for today where upcoming writers could exercise their literary muscles with a 30 minute slot. This is where Dennis Potter cut his teeth and progressed to writing the absolutely magnificent TV miniseries The Singing Detective. It has produced the most extraordinary drama documentaries. Kathy Come Home by Ken Loach led to the establishing of Shelter and of course the beginning for a renowned director. Period adaptations, Pride and Prejudice, making lots of money for the BBC by the way. Documentaries such as The Natural World, Currently The Green Planet, narrated by David Attenborough, Educate and Engage. That was preceded by documentaries such as The History of Civilisation by Kenneth Clark in the 1960s. Just examples and of course the world service mentioned by others. But there are too many game shows for me in the BBC so I switched to BBC 4 and Channel 4 and of course Radio 4 where you find those short dramas that are missed from television now and the last word political satire and even I confess the archers. To be frank however it does sometimes appear too close to the establishment wherever that establishment is and of course only now do I feel it's beginning to respond to the fact that we have devolution because Covid has meant it's had to distinguish between English legislation and the legislation of the other nations and that's been some time coming. But it is a public service and it's important, it's accountability is important and precious and must not be eroded so I return to this. Can I suggest it reintroduce sponsoring new writers and documentary makers not in some heaven for fend another competition or game show. I'm up to the back teeth in those but giving them space to exhibit and develop their skills with a fair distribution of investment across the four nations use the license fee to invest in those it will pay back not only in quality but actually in returns as they sell those products abroad. These people create and can contribute to that public service and they're missing now like they weren't missing in previous decades so I hope somebody from the BBC out there is listening to this plea, support the writers, support the document makers and that they might make mistakes in their 30 minute slot but remember Dennis Potter and Ken Loach and that's what came out of those programmes. Thank you. Thank you very much for screaming. I now call on Stephen Kerr to be followed by Beatrice Wishart for around four minutes Mr Kerr. Deadline officer can I just say how much I enjoyed Christine Graham's speech and I hope she's discovered the joy of Radio 4 Extra where she'll find many of the programmes that she mentioned from yesterday. I'd also like to thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for securing this important debate and it's because the BBC is one of Britain's finest institutions that the UK Government has a responsibility to not only protect it but to create the conditions so that the BBC can prosper and one of the BBC's greatest strengths of course is it adds to the United Kingdom's global soft power and by broadcasting British art culture and news around the world the BBC helps the UK punch above our weight on the world stage and the BBC also asks the lives of people across these islands be it through education, educating, entertaining or informing when discussing the future of the BBC these benefits are what we must seek to preserve and such is the reputation and standing of BBC output around the world the BBC should be looking to the future with confidence but like all institutions it's absolutely right to take time especially on the auspicious occasion of its centenary to make a strategic check and adjust to ensure that the BBC is in the best possible place to continue to be the global broadcast leader that it is to do otherwise would be an act of gross negligence if the BBC does not adapt to the 21st century rather than being a world leading public service broadcaster it runs the risk of being outpaced by the rapid change happening all around us and being consigned to the past and as a conservative who wants to defend great British institutions I don't want to see that happen now in 2017 yes of course, myron Whitfield I'm very grateful to the member giving way would he not agree though that perhaps that consideration should take place when the charter comes up for renewal so that between charter renewals the BBC has the confidence that it knows what its financial future holds? Stephen Kerr understand the point that my friend is making however I would say that the centenary provides us with a welcome opportunity to evaluate how the BBC not only celebrate the 100 years history of the BBC as has been touched upon by many colleagues in their speeches this evening but also talk about how the BBC gets through the next century now in 2017 data showed that almost a third of all female convictions were because of failure to pay the TV licence fee and that women were almost 10 times more likely to be convicted for not paying the men surely nobody in this chamber believes it's right to criminalise people for not paying a TV licence in 2018 James Purnell a former director of radio and director of strategy and digital at the BBC said that streaming services were an existential threat to the BBC and while the focus on streaming services tends to focus on Netflix and Prime, Purnell stressed that young people are more likely to listen to podcasts and Spotify than BBC radio with the massive expansion of online streaming services it's my fear that the BBC licence fee is putting young people off the BBC if the BBC is to survive it must attract young people to its services which is why the UK government is correct to launch an inquiry and a debate about the future funding model of the BBC we surely don't want to see a future where the majority of people are forced by statute to pay for programming and output that they don't value and don't consume now that does present an existential threat to the future of the BBC and my message to the BBC is don't be afraid of change be confident about embracing change there is a world of opportunity ahead for the BBC in its second century to conclude Presiding Officer I want to point out two ironies from this debate the first being the the SNP's staunch defence of a British institution I welcome this and it's my hope that this is proof that members of the nationalist party are seeing the benefits of our union in the BBC as a British institution the second Presiding Officer is soberingly more serious in 2014 the then SNP leader accused the BBC reporter Nick Robinson of bias triggering a protest outside Pacific Keys studios in Glasgow from the nationalist movement these protests have been described as bullying and intimidation and the treatment towards BBC journalists that day has been compared to Putin's Russia so I will take no lectures from the BBC from the SNP about defending the BBC then Presiding Officer I don't only want to protect the BBC I wanted to flourish rather than stand still we must update and improve the BBC while preserving the values that make the BBC the great British institution that we are all proud of thank you Mr Kerr before calling the next speaker due to the number of speakers who still wish to contribute to the debate I'm minded to accept the motion without notice under rule 8.14.3 to extend the debate by up to 30 minutes and I invite Mr Cole-Hamilton to move such a motion so moved Presiding Officer thank you the question is that the debate be extended by up to 30 minutes are we all agreed excellent that is agreed and I call on the next speaker which is Beatrice Wishart to be followed by Claire Adamson for around four minutes. Thank you Deputy Presiding Officer and thank you to my colleague Alec Cole-Hamilton for bringing this important debate to the chamber. The BBC is something that belongs to all of us it's the theme of a new BBC promotional video which uses some of the hundreds of thousands of hours of BBC material stitched together to embody the central mission of the BBC to inform educate and entertain everyone will be able to name at least one of those shows that the clips come from proof if it was needed of the BBC's impact on our lives a trusted institution as Mark Ruskell said during the pandemic the BBC stepped up to the challenge we saw cooking shows adapted adapting from showing us fancy Saturday night showpieces I knew I would struggle over that to instead taking everyday ingredients and helping us prepare a meal fit for a weekend night after work our young people were taught by guest teachers to help them through tricky maths questions and we were entertained by past comedy hits and replayed sporting events we saw something similar from other public service broadcasters but simply not on the same scale due to the vast library of content the trust of viewers and production capabilities of the BBC liberal democrats want to protect that cultural impact and the independence of the BBC which has been threatened by the UK governance discussion on changes to the funding model changes could result in a cut to the BBC's budget and the BBC director general has stated that everything is on the agenda when it comes to BBC budget discussions Presiding officer let me turn now to BBC local radio stations as others have already mentioned and its value to the community that I'm privileged to represent. For half an hour each evening BBC Radio Shetland's magazine programme broadcasts a mixture of local news and current affairs updates on local events music and the all-important weather forecast. Radio Shetland and its sister station Radio Orkney began broadcasting 45 years ago and allows our island group space to gather and experience our shared culture. The stations are well respected for their impartial coverage of island events. We all know about the impact of storm Arwyn and the length of time it took to restore power where many north-east households in Scotland were without phones, internet and links to local news and community help. In Shetland we were lucky to escape the worst damage of Arwyn but with more extreme weather events we might not always be so lucky. A few batteries in a handheld radio can provide vital information from the local radio station especially for communities living on the fringes that in the best circumstances still struggle to get broadband let alone high-speed broadband so local radio stations are truly a lifeline public community service. Before I end today I would be remiss if I did not mention the now iconic BBC TV show Shetland as Sarah Boyack has already mentioned. This is showcase Shetland and shown off our beautiful landscapes reinforcing in viewers' minds the different challenges that our islands face. They also wanted to know more about our cake fridges. With a smaller population and greater distance from mainland Scotland it's important to reflect that life in the isles is different. Without the investment and risk taken by the BBC to dramatise and cleave excellent novels the opportunity for a crime drama set in Shetland might have been missed. Where the BBC goes others follow so a risk taken by the BBC proving that you can film and produce successful programmes in rural and remote island areas. To conclude the BBC is something that belongs to all of us informing us, educating us, entertaining us, challenging us and enriching our lives not only through its output by its cultural impact changing the payment model could limit all of this and is that really something that we want to risk. I now call on Claire Adamson who will be followed by Martin Whitfield for four minutes. Thank you to Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing this debate this evening. I apologise to Dr Allan. I wasn't able to access the translation from my console so I apologise if I covered anything he's already spoken about this evening but if I could go back to my 12 year old self in 1979 and watching the very first episodes of Life on Earth I can still remember watching and seeing the very crude drawings and animations there of trilobites and it sparked my lifelong love of biology, of evolution, of dinosaurs and everything scientific. In the tens of decades since then I still find myself glued to the BBC watching the green planet broadcasts that still captivate by the totally inspiring and passionate David Attenborough. The crude drawings have gone in the intervening years. The Brontosaurus has gone usurped by the Apatosaurus only to return once again as a Brontosaurus real dinosaur but I fear that there is not a scenario like this for the BBC that the defunding of the BBC and the threat to the licence fee would in fact lead to the extinction of what is the jewel in account of public broadcasting in this country. We now have the most incredible award winning film making to watch in the green planet and other documentaries of the BBC and people have spoken about their favourites this evening. If I could turn to a defender of public sector broadcasting from SCV, the CEO Simon Pitts from 2020, when he was saying that free to air high quality and partial local news must be safeguarded, the size of action is needed to ensure that public sector broadcasting content is easy for viewers to find on all platforms. A level regulatory playing field is required, online competitors, particularly in advertising regulation. We need a stimulus of measures that are important to ensure a diverse range of programming from nations and regions, including tax relief for unsuscripted production. He was interviewed by Christian Gurramurthy, who is one of Channel 4's excellent journalists. We only saw this week take apart Nadine Dorris in the halls of Westminster as he may well take her apart for her views on the future of the BBC public sector broadcasting. He pointed out, Simon Pitts, that it is important that high quality and partial universally available Scottish journalism needs to be available to create stimulus for production in the nations and regions. It delivers a level of regulatory playing field with the online subscribers. It is so important that we recognise the global change in how we consume, how we watch and to absolutely secure the future of public sector broadcasting in all its forms. That includes Channel 4, the BBC and the Scottish TV. I want to turn to an example of that local broadcasting. Many of you may have signed a motion of mine about the Poppers Grave at Harwood hospital, which has been reclaimed by the locals and has done a historical investigation to identify the unmarked graves of people from that hospital. That was highlighted in my town, BBC Scotland's broadcast that looks at some of the lesser-known histories of some of our towns across Scotland. It is like the old collection of the history and culture of our towns. If we do not have the public sector broadcasting happening at a local level, we will lose our own history, our oral history and the experiences of our people. That is why it is so important. Jenny Minto was absolutely right. We need production in Scotland. We need production that is proportionate to the contribution that Scotland makes a fairer deal from the BBC. Jenny Minto said that we need improvements, but not cultural vandalism. Ms Adamson, I apologise for the problems that you had in hearing Dr Allan's contribution. I can assure you that there was little crossover and that he showed a wanton disregard for both apatosaurus and bronthosaurus. The final speaker in the open debate is Martin Whitfield for only four minutes. Mr Whitfield. I am very grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer. It is a great pleasure to follow Claire Adamson and her memories of David Attenborough all those years ago. Indeed, back in 1975, I think it was fabulous creatures, was a series that he ran for children about extraordinary animals and had the great pleasure of discovering that there was a book that accompanied the series. I would also like to thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for bringing this very important motion here, and in particular to thank him for mentioning the educational resources within that motion, because I would like to spend this time just to concentrate on the educational role that the BBC has taken. We, of course, have just, or hopefully coming to the end of Covid, but have witnessed the BBC at its very best when, during the first lockdown, the BBC bite sized provided education to children who struggled sometimes even to speak to their own class teacher, but during the second lockdown, the BBC stepped up using CVVs and, of course, BBC2 to transmit programmes aimed at primary and high school children in the morning and afternoon to give support with the difficult maths questions that we've heard about, but also much wider to remind young people of what was happening in the world and around the world tied in to why they are educated the way they are, so it looked at history. It invited authors to come in, or indeed remotely, by Zoom to talk about their books, and provided something which I think children found very difficult to achieve, a bit of fun, and learning should be fun, and sitting within the BBC right from their original mission was a requirement to educate, and to those who talk about a change in the funding so that only people who take things from the BBC should perhaps contribute to it. I would remind those contributors that, of course, children are not in a position to contribute financially to the BBC, but the BBC is a representation of our community, of our culture, of the United Kingdom is very well able to give those children a great start in their life, perhaps not in the way their boring teachers do, but in colourful pictures of sperm whales and blue whales, I still remember the first time, again through David Attenborough, I saw moving pictures of a blue whale and about how enormous that creature was, and to be told it was possibly the largest living creature that has ever been on earth, and so education sits as one of the pillars of the requirements of the BBC, and indeed, because everyone deserves a little bit of a history lesson, it all goes back to 1924 when special broadcasts for schools went out on the wireless and then the radio and moved to television in 1957, but it also allows me to make mention of Mary Somerville, who is one of my great heroes, who as the first director of schools broadcasting was a woman at the heart of the BBC defining what education should be for the children outside. She also happens to be the woman who forced the BBC to make a payment of maternity pay so that she could return after her first child. So, to see BBC into BBC2's transmission, to the BBC education department that delivers that public purpose to promote education and is central to fulfilling the BBC's mission to inform, to educate and entertain, one of the great pillars of our BBC is its ability to do that, and not just for children, but also for adults. So, at this moment, when we are being asked to think about what the future of the BBC holds and how it should be funded, please let us consider all that it's done for us when we were young, for the young today and for the young tomorrow, and that deserves certainty in funding, it deserves independence and it deserves our support. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Thank you very much, Mr Workfield. I now call on the cabinet secretary to conclude the debate for around seven minutes. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I commend the member for Edinburgh Western for securing this debate and for colleagues right across the chamber, including Sarah Boyack, who highlighted the range of services from the BBC. Jenny Minto, who pointed out that the BBC is not perfect or above criticism, among other things for the unacceptable underspend of television production in Scotland. Dr Alistair Allen, for its importance in gallant medium broadcasting, and Martin Whitfield there highlighting the importance of the BBC to education and to children's programming, is. As any parent in this chamber will attest, frankly, the BBC licence fee is worth it for CBBC alone. I welcome the opportunity to close this debate on the crucial matter of how we celebrate, protect and develop public service broadcasting in the BBC in the face of UK Government actions that risk doing the very opposite, and I should at this stage declare an interest in that I worked for the BBC for nearly a decade as its Vienna correspondent. As Cabinet Secretary for External Affairs, I am reminded almost daily when I meet leaders and diplomats from other countries of the exceptionally high regard across the world for the BBC and public service broadcasting in the UK. It is hard to overstate its significance, which comes from its core principles of providing impartial news and information, of supporting education creativity and our creative economy, and of representing us with high-quality, compelling content. Alex Cole-Hamilton I am very grateful to the Cabinet Secretary for Giving Way. Dr Allen was very clear that he said that public confidence in Scotland had been eroded in the BBC during the 2014 referendum. Does he share that view? Does he regard the reporting of the referendum as being biased, and will he condemn the actions of the nationalist movement for hiding Nick Robinson, Robinson and other members of the BBC? Cabinet Secretary, I am going to give you his time back. It is disappointing that the member for Edinburgh Western is not seeking to build compromise in the chamber, so I look forward to debating the issues in future. I think that Nick Robinson has reflected on his part in reporting on the 2014 referendum, and I said that he has regretted it in part. I think that the member for Edinburgh Western should reflect on the fact that there was highly contentious reporting during the independence referendum. I am sorry to say that I do not actually think, and I am speaking as somebody who is an incredibly strong supporter of the BBC, that it stood up to its high standards of impartiality during that time, and as a result of that, it is why it has a lower level of public confidence in Scotland, and I think that everybody should reflect on that, not least in the BBC. When Covid hit Deputy Presiding Officer, we got a further reminder of why broadcasting matters the BBC in particular became our school, our place of worship, our social escape and our source of crucial public information in the long weeks that we could not see our families and we could not see our friends. Already mentioned, of course, looking at the enormous impact of David Attenborough, Blue Planet has had in waking us up to the danger of climate change, and that's what real public service broadcasting looks like, what public service broadcasting is doing today. Forgive me, I'm running out of time. Alarmingly, the UK Government seems blind to this. I wrote to DCMS Secretary of State Nadine Doros just over a week ago to raise my concern about the UK Government's actions and intentions, rather than recognise what we have and support the BBC and other public service broadcasters to keep delivering more value for everyone in the UK. Sadly, she seems intent on dismantling them one bit at a time. First, the UK Government shifted responsibility for the welfare policy of free licences for the over 75s to the BBC. At the time, the cost of this to the UK Government was £608 million, about a fifth of the BBC budget. Caring for older people must be the Government's job, not the BBC's, and I would urge the UK Government to stop diverting blame for the consequences of its decision to the broadcaster and take back its social responsibility. Then the UK Government announced that they would be consulting on privatising Channel 4, putting at risk the distinct role that it plays, making programmes in the public interest and helping to grow the independent production schedule. All this at a time that the channel was showing its resilience, having weathered the pandemic and increased its focus on content, spend and investment in Scotland. Namus Doros has announced that she is freezing the licence fee at £159 for two years and has suggested a review that could end up with a funding model being scrapped altogether in 2027. The cumulative effect of these announcements is to weaken the BBC and public broadcasting and make it hard of them to do what they do best. The BBC is not perfect, but we have to recognise its importance to Scotland in so many ways, like its role in promoting the Gaelic language and successful Gaelic productions like Bannon through BBC Allopah and in bringing communities together across Scotland with TV and local radio services. While we have been critical of the level of BBC spend in Scotland and how it compares unfavourably to other devolved nations in terms of the proportion of licence fee raised and spent here, there are signs of improvement. Underpinned by a memorandum of understanding between Screen Scotland and the BBC, there is more new original content being made and Scottish-based talent being developed. New series like the Scottish Written and Produce Comedy Guild are on network television and there is more content made in Scotland by Scottish writers, directors and producers to come. Frankly, the BBC should locate network commissioning in Scotland. We want them to do more, not less, but the actions of the UK government will make any improvements hard to sustain. BBC director General Tim Davies has warned that the licence fee freeze will leave the BBC with a shortfall of £285 million by 2027-28 and have a direct impact on output. Far from levelling up, it looks more like grinding down. Returning to the motion, I reiterate my support for the BBC and public service broadcasting and recognise the importance of its original content and of its public service. I agree that its value stems from the principles of universality and diversity and we should defend these. It's still fair to say that while the landscape is changing for media, the public service broadcasters remain the cornerstones of creativity in our production sector. Audiences in Scotland are still spending eight hours and 44 minutes on average watching the BBC every week. As I draw this debate to a close, Deputy Presiding Officer, I think it is clear from contributions across the chamber what our renowned public service broadcasting system means to so many people in Scotland. We've long argued that broadcasting policies should be devolved to ensure that we can take the right decisions for our creative economy and for Scottish viewers and listeners. The latest signs from the UK Government that it's prepared to put public service broadcasting and the BBC at risk of instability only strengthens my view that the future of public broadcasting would be much safer in Scotland's hands. Thank you Cabinet Secretary. That concludes the debate and I close this meeting of Parliament.